No, the solution is to change the laws and FORCE overseas companies to pay taxes.
They can have a choice. Pay taxes just like local businesses or be outside of the country and its laws.
That means no copyright, no patent, no trademark protections
Its their choice.
"may drive you out of business." is the important thing here.
Apple, a US company, uses profit shifting to pay zero local taxes in New Zealand.
Any local company does not have this competitive advantage so they are more likely to go out of business meaning loss of tax for the government, and more people unemployed which also leads to loss of taxes.
By not paying taxes Apple in effect has an unfair advantage to the detriment of New Zealand and New Zealand based businesses.
Apple has no right to any competitive advantage in New Zealand, there is no benefits for the country. If Apple has to raise their prices, so be it, but Samsung won't
so they gain a better price advantage and Apple looses sales.
Apple does not pay VAT, that is a sales tax (and it called GST in NZ)
EVERY business who has a turn over of over about $50,000 pa MUST register for GST. They are obligated to collect the sales taxes for the government and hand them on , however this is NOT a business tax which is why businesses can claim the GST back on everything they buy (e.g. the metro for their work vehicles, their electricity, insurances, etc etc etc).
However unlike Apple, those NZ based business ALSO have to pay taxes on their profits.
Well in New Zealand wage/salary workers pay income tax automatically deducted from their wages by the employer.
There are very few "tax deductions" allowable for income taxes and for the majority there is no need to even do an annual tax return.
Banks automatically deduct the highest taxable rate on earned interest unless you give them your IRD number
IF the IRD system figure you owe them more than $500 based on their data, they will bill you if you dont do a tax return.
Apple and others get taxed based on what a New Zealand company gets taxed, scaled up or down.
For example if a New Zealand comparable company has a $1 Billion dollar turn over and pays $50 million in taxes, Apple who also has a turn over of $1 Billion turn over also has to pay taxes of $50 million. If the comparable business only has a $500 Million turn over and pays $25 Million taxes, then it gets scaled up and Apple pays $50 million.
Apple can avoid this by decreeing they want no legal status in New Zealand (or simply fail to pay), however that removes them from all protections under the NZ law, copyright, patent, trademark, etc etc etc etc. They want the rights and protections of New Zealand laws, they can contribute, just like every other business in New Zealand who pays taxes. Apple can "rejoin" if they pay the estimated taxes that would have been payable over the same period + interest @20%pa, however they can not prosecute anyone for copyright etc etc etc committed prior to their rejoining.
And this applies to Google, Facebook, Microsoft, HP, Boeing, Phillips, Toyota, Samsung, etc etc etc etc etc.
Its VERY simple, you want to have your products / services sold here, you pay your taxes just like a local has to.
Trump has outed himself as a complete and utter tosser and liar....... publicly, for ALL the world to see. Not just once but over and over again.
His business credibility has now been shot to hell, no one with a brain in their skull will ever want to do business with him, he has shat in his own nest.
Worse, he has probably destroyed his families businesses as well.
So where is your proof that New Zealand firms operating in the USA do not pay US taxes ?
If Apple does not want to pay taxes on profits like other businesses then perhaps an import duty on Apple gear is warranted, currently there is none.
Sales taxes are paid by the consumer, they are not based on business profits, they are collected and passed on by the retailer.
So for example if I buy an Apple computer at Harvey Normans, Harvey Normans passes on the sales tax to the IRD, not Apple.
Another approach could be
If Apple wants the protection of the laws here in New Zealand then it should pay taxes to enjoy of the benefits of citizenship
If it does not want to pay taxes, then it places its self outside of the laws, so for example they would have no patent or copyright protection in NZ.
Currently corporates have all the benefits of a country and don't pay any of the costs.
As for WHY apple should pay taxes.
Lets assume YOU are in business, and at the end of each year you have $1 Million in profits, and from this you pay $300,000 in taxes. Those taxes are used for roading, infrastructure, the legal system, etc etc etc, i.e. all the things from a civil society you benefit from.
Now Apple comes along, they are "outside" you country, then enjoy ALL the benefits of roads etc etc etc that you do, but they don't pay taxes, so in real terms they are $300,000 better off each year than you, money they can put in the bank for a rainy day.
We have a housing crisis, and business down turn, things are rough and you have to close down. Apple on the other hand has a huge stock pile of cash so they can ride out the rough times (because they did not pay taxes), so they remain in business where by you loose your business and your house.
THAT is why corporates should be expected to pay taxes, so they compete on a fair and equal basis with those local companies who can not dodge the taxes.
Or to put in in an American setting, if a Chinese firm is able to dodge taxes and use that tax advantage to put an American company out of business causing people to loose their lively hoods and houses, do you STILL think it is fair the Chinese firm pays no taxes.
Hell, cut back on your military spending, the US already spends more than the next 10 nations combined.
Even if you halved spending you would still spend more than any other nation.
Those trillions could be used for health, education, R&D, infrastructure, welfare, etc etc etc
Or, as has actually been the case, an American shot and killed an unarmed Mexican teenager on Mexican soil and the US government has refused to extradite him for criminal prosecution in Mexico.
US airforce pilot breaking the rules/laws in Italy while hot dogging hit and broke the cables for a gondola killing some people, the US very quickly returned the guilty parties to the USA and refused to extradite them to face criminal charges.
Yet the USA is demanding Kim Dotcom be extradited to the USA when he (at the time) broke no New Zealand laws.
Good, because as the USA gets more obnoxious, more people in more countries will vote with their wallet and it won't be in the US's favour.
China (if not already) will soon be the world biggest economy, and the EU (if it hangs in there) will be the 2nd largest with the US 3rd.
Peak USA was in the 1970's and its been slipping ever since then.
Trade wars don't just stop products you dont want, they can also stop products you NEED (e.g. rare earth materials) as others retaliate with the tools they have, e.g. denial of product.
The USA has NEVER been about free trade.
It has always had import tariffs and massive subsidies, especially in the agricultural sector.
In fact the USA has been loosing when it comes to the WTO when it comes to protectionist policies.
And idiots like you need to realise that 96% of the worlds population are NOT US citizens and are perfectly entitled to put USA LAST.
We too can state that "no deal is better than a bad deal"
We already see this with tourist numbers to the USA plummeting.
Also at risk is $2Trillion in exports.
There is very little if anything that is made in the USA that can not be sourced elsewhere. Worse, US companies who manufacture and export will be quick to leave the USA and set up shop elsewhere to keep access to that 96%. So if anything you are looking at loosing MORE jobs.
Asia is the biggest growing market, the USA essentially a saturated one, so it far more important for firms that want customer growth to have access to Asia (60% of the world population) than the USA 4%.
There is no "rule" that says the USA must or will win. We the 96% are NOT beholden to the USA, we are not subject to US law, we can not be forced to buy US goods and products. So go for it, start a trade war, the long term looser will be the USA.
In the 1960s the USA accounted for about 60% of the entire worlds GDP, now it is 20% and falling. So keep pissing people off, keep pissing your friends off its only going to hasten the fall. Every other empire in history has fallen, the USA is not immune.
Sure loss of trade with the USA will hurt, but heres the thing, people adapt and technology allows them to adapt faster than before, so it will only be years, maybe a decade before the world is back to where it was, without the USA, mean while the USA is much much worse off.
Oh, and here is the great thing about capitalism, labour is simply another item that can be bought from multiple vendors. China has not stolen any US jobs, it just used capitalism where by it did a better job cheaper. So why you cheered on Amazon for putting bookstores out of business, the same principle applied to US jobs, manufacturers has to produce more, better, cheaper because americans voted with their wallets and demanded it. Well now you have it, those jobs left the USA and will not come back.
Demand away that stuff must be made in the USA, we the 96% will demand it is not. And we the 96% who also have 80% of the worlds GDP have more say than you do.
This (so far) has probably been the first example though the seas around it are illegally exploited by some nations.
So I guess there may be some (small) hope for mankind.
As alternative energy sources become more viable there is less reason for oil exploration which is probably the only resource worth exploiting, and the costs of permanent habitation are high enough that there are cheaper options.
Actual quite a few nations have permanent bases there.
Whats stopped colonisation is the Antarctic treaty which prevents nations from setting up shop in a bigger way, mining, polluting etc.
It took me over 2 years to get off one hotel chains spam list even though I ticked "DO NOT email me offers"
Now I have a spam email address I use for all hotels , real estate agents, etc etc etc that fits into the format of x.x.xspamtrap@gmail.com
so they KNOW its a spam trap
Some have complained that its not a real address, it is, but anything that ends up there is automatically deleted, I never see any of it, and they get told this
I am more than happy to show them on my phone that its real, but worthless.
Which is why I have an email address I use for all those stores who think they are entitled to my email address.
I have multiple email addresses.
1 for work
1 for family
1 for personal use
1 for possible spammers
1 as a spam trap
1 that I give to stores I dont want junk mail from
They are all IMAP accounts, there is a script that automatically empties the last 3 accounts (2 of them once a week)
Plus my work one I can block whole domains on the email server e.g. *@*.com.br *@hotmail.com etc etc etc
My spam trap address automatically sends everything that lands there to spamcop
Feel free to show when Apple has ever bought back old technology
The did not do it with
The floppy disk
The CD/DVD
The serial Port
Adobe Flash
Hardware keypad on the iPhone
Technology moves on and that means better technology comes along. You can either cling to old tech or move on to better tech.
Either way, no one actually cares what YOU choose, it makes ZERO difference in what anyone else does
I have used computers since CPM2.2, seen huge technological changes and I have ALWAYS bought gear that suited ME, I am happy to change and adapt and learn. What you do and the choices you make have less impact on my life than how many frogs there are in Tunisia, and they have ZERO impact"
No.
They did not care what PC computers had when they
Dumped the serial port
Dumped the floppy disk
Dumped the CD/DVD
Never implemented Flash on the iPhone Adobe flash
Never had a hardware keyboard on their iPhone
At every change it was "Apple will go broke in weeks, you just see" and Apple carried on, and made even more money.
And eventually everyone else followed their lead.
So, does Apple care what "followers" do, no a chance.
Sure, but the reason there are there is for motorists to notice.
Given most (?) cars have only one occupant, the majority of people the billboard is aimed at is the driver.
to do that, it becomes a distraction.
It was posted more in response to the ludicrous suggestion that if you SatNav was a distraction you could still be prosecuted.
Slashdot Mirror
No, the solution is to change the laws and FORCE overseas companies to pay taxes.
They can have a choice. Pay taxes just like local businesses or be outside of the country and its laws.
That means no copyright, no patent, no trademark protections Its their choice.
"may drive you out of business." is the important thing here.
Apple, a US company, uses profit shifting to pay zero local taxes in New Zealand.
Any local company does not have this competitive advantage so they are more likely to go out of business meaning loss of tax for the government, and more people unemployed which also leads to loss of taxes.
By not paying taxes Apple in effect has an unfair advantage to the detriment of New Zealand and New Zealand based businesses.
Apple has no right to any competitive advantage in New Zealand, there is no benefits for the country. If Apple has to raise their prices, so be it, but Samsung won't so they gain a better price advantage and Apple looses sales.
Lets look at 2 businesses.
You have business, you have $1 Million in profit (irrespective of VAT) and pay 30% business taxes of $300,000
Apple has a "business", but they dont need to pay taxes, so they can automatically undercut your prices.
You can either lower your prices to compete, or if they are too low you can close your business.
OR Lets put it in a different way
You have business, you have $1 Million in profit (irrespective of VAT) and pay 30% business taxes of $300,000
An overseas company also pay $1 Million in taxes, however their government gives them that $1 Million in subsidies so they can undercut your prices
And you still go broke.
is THAT fair ?
Most countries have laws against this to protect local companies from unfair competition like this. not paying taxes is ultimately no different.
Apple does not pay VAT, that is a sales tax (and it called GST in NZ)
EVERY business who has a turn over of over about $50,000 pa MUST register for GST. They are obligated to collect the sales taxes for the government and hand them on , however this is NOT a business tax which is why businesses can claim the GST back on everything they buy (e.g. the metro for their work vehicles, their electricity, insurances, etc etc etc).
However unlike Apple, those NZ based business ALSO have to pay taxes on their profits.
Well in New Zealand wage/salary workers pay income tax automatically deducted from their wages by the employer.
There are very few "tax deductions" allowable for income taxes and for the majority there is no need to even do an annual tax return.
Banks automatically deduct the highest taxable rate on earned interest unless you give them your IRD number
IF the IRD system figure you owe them more than $500 based on their data, they will bill you if you dont do a tax return.
Tax evasion is heavily penalised.
So, we change the rules.
Apple and others get taxed based on what a New Zealand company gets taxed, scaled up or down.
For example if a New Zealand comparable company has a $1 Billion dollar turn over and pays $50 million in taxes, Apple who also has a turn over of $1 Billion turn over also has to pay taxes of $50 million. If the comparable business only has a $500 Million turn over and pays $25 Million taxes, then it gets scaled up and Apple pays $50 million.
Apple can avoid this by decreeing they want no legal status in New Zealand (or simply fail to pay), however that removes them from all protections under the NZ law, copyright, patent, trademark, etc etc etc etc. They want the rights and protections of New Zealand laws, they can contribute, just like every other business in New Zealand who pays taxes. Apple can "rejoin" if they pay the estimated taxes that would have been payable over the same period + interest @20%pa, however they can not prosecute anyone for copyright etc etc etc committed prior to their rejoining.
And this applies to Google, Facebook, Microsoft, HP, Boeing, Phillips, Toyota, Samsung, etc etc etc etc etc.
Its VERY simple, you want to have your products / services sold here, you pay your taxes just like a local has to.
The REALLY funny things is.
Trump has outed himself as a complete and utter tosser and liar....... publicly, for ALL the world to see. Not just once but over and over again.
His business credibility has now been shot to hell, no one with a brain in their skull will ever want to do business with him, he has shat in his own nest.
Worse, he has probably destroyed his families businesses as well.
ROTFLMAO, what a MORON.
Oh I dont know. Maybe it was because Apple is opposing a lot of Trumps badly thought out ideas and this is punishment
So where is your proof that New Zealand firms operating in the USA do not pay US taxes ?
If Apple does not want to pay taxes on profits like other businesses then perhaps an import duty on Apple gear is warranted, currently there is none.
Sales taxes are paid by the consumer, they are not based on business profits, they are collected and passed on by the retailer.
So for example if I buy an Apple computer at Harvey Normans, Harvey Normans passes on the sales tax to the IRD, not Apple.
Another approach could be
If Apple wants the protection of the laws here in New Zealand then it should pay taxes to enjoy of the benefits of citizenship
If it does not want to pay taxes, then it places its self outside of the laws, so for example they would have no patent or copyright protection in NZ.
Currently corporates have all the benefits of a country and don't pay any of the costs.
As for WHY apple should pay taxes.
Lets assume YOU are in business, and at the end of each year you have $1 Million in profits, and from this you pay $300,000 in taxes. Those taxes are used for roading, infrastructure, the legal system, etc etc etc, i.e. all the things from a civil society you benefit from.
Now Apple comes along, they are "outside" you country, then enjoy ALL the benefits of roads etc etc etc that you do, but they don't pay taxes, so in real terms they are $300,000 better off each year than you, money they can put in the bank for a rainy day.
We have a housing crisis, and business down turn, things are rough and you have to close down. Apple on the other hand has a huge stock pile of cash so they can ride out the rough times (because they did not pay taxes), so they remain in business where by you loose your business and your house.
THAT is why corporates should be expected to pay taxes, so they compete on a fair and equal basis with those local companies who can not dodge the taxes.
Or to put in in an American setting, if a Chinese firm is able to dodge taxes and use that tax advantage to put an American company out of business causing people to loose their lively hoods and houses, do you STILL think it is fair the Chinese firm pays no taxes.
Hell, cut back on your military spending, the US already spends more than the next 10 nations combined. Even if you halved spending you would still spend more than any other nation. Those trillions could be used for health, education, R&D, infrastructure, welfare, etc etc etc
But when an American shoots over the boarder and kills a mexican teenager the USA refuses to hand the person over for prosecution
Or, as has actually been the case, an American shot and killed an unarmed Mexican teenager on Mexican soil and the US government has refused to extradite him for criminal prosecution in Mexico.
US airforce pilot breaking the rules/laws in Italy while hot dogging hit and broke the cables for a gondola killing some people, the US very quickly returned the guilty parties to the USA and refused to extradite them to face criminal charges.
Yet the USA is demanding Kim Dotcom be extradited to the USA when he (at the time) broke no New Zealand laws.
Good, because as the USA gets more obnoxious, more people in more countries will vote with their wallet and it won't be in the US's favour. China (if not already) will soon be the world biggest economy, and the EU (if it hangs in there) will be the 2nd largest with the US 3rd. Peak USA was in the 1970's and its been slipping ever since then. Trade wars don't just stop products you dont want, they can also stop products you NEED (e.g. rare earth materials) as others retaliate with the tools they have, e.g. denial of product.
The USA has NEVER been about free trade.
It has always had import tariffs and massive subsidies, especially in the agricultural sector.
In fact the USA has been loosing when it comes to the WTO when it comes to protectionist policies.
And idiots like you need to realise that 96% of the worlds population are NOT US citizens and are perfectly entitled to put USA LAST.
We too can state that "no deal is better than a bad deal"
We already see this with tourist numbers to the USA plummeting.
Also at risk is $2Trillion in exports.
There is very little if anything that is made in the USA that can not be sourced elsewhere. Worse, US companies who manufacture and export will be quick to leave the USA and set up shop elsewhere to keep access to that 96%. So if anything you are looking at loosing MORE jobs.
Asia is the biggest growing market, the USA essentially a saturated one, so it far more important for firms that want customer growth to have access to Asia (60% of the world population) than the USA 4%.
There is no "rule" that says the USA must or will win. We the 96% are NOT beholden to the USA, we are not subject to US law, we can not be forced to buy US goods and products. So go for it, start a trade war, the long term looser will be the USA.
In the 1960s the USA accounted for about 60% of the entire worlds GDP, now it is 20% and falling. So keep pissing people off, keep pissing your friends off its only going to hasten the fall. Every other empire in history has fallen, the USA is not immune.
Sure loss of trade with the USA will hurt, but heres the thing, people adapt and technology allows them to adapt faster than before, so it will only be years, maybe a decade before the world is back to where it was, without the USA, mean while the USA is much much worse off.
Oh, and here is the great thing about capitalism, labour is simply another item that can be bought from multiple vendors. China has not stolen any US jobs, it just used capitalism where by it did a better job cheaper. So why you cheered on Amazon for putting bookstores out of business, the same principle applied to US jobs, manufacturers has to produce more, better, cheaper because americans voted with their wallets and demanded it. Well now you have it, those jobs left the USA and will not come back.
Demand away that stuff must be made in the USA, we the 96% will demand it is not. And we the 96% who also have 80% of the worlds GDP have more say than you do.
This (so far) has probably been the first example though the seas around it are illegally exploited by some nations. So I guess there may be some (small) hope for mankind. As alternative energy sources become more viable there is less reason for oil exploration which is probably the only resource worth exploiting, and the costs of permanent habitation are high enough that there are cheaper options.
Actual quite a few nations have permanent bases there. Whats stopped colonisation is the Antarctic treaty which prevents nations from setting up shop in a bigger way, mining, polluting etc.
Thats like asking "Syphilis " I want a second opinion.
Please hit your hand hard with a hammer, it will be less painful than trying to remove MacKeeper.
Set up a gmail account, something like xyzspamtrap@gmail.com
Give them that address, its yours, its legitimate but its worthless and they can spam as often as they like.
After than you no longer care if they ignore the "do not add me" part of their sign on sheets.
And if you have to "read their email" and click on the confirmation link, you can, and you can ignore them after that.
It took me over 2 years to get off one hotel chains spam list even though I ticked "DO NOT email me offers"
Now I have a spam email address I use for all hotels , real estate agents, etc etc etc that fits into the format of x.x.xspamtrap@gmail.com
so they KNOW its a spam trap
Some have complained that its not a real address, it is, but anything that ends up there is automatically deleted, I never see any of it, and they get told this
I am more than happy to show them on my phone that its real, but worthless.
Which is why I have an email address I use for all those stores who think they are entitled to my email address.
I have multiple email addresses.
1 for work
1 for family
1 for personal use
1 for possible spammers
1 as a spam trap
1 that I give to stores I dont want junk mail from
They are all IMAP accounts, there is a script that automatically empties the last 3 accounts (2 of them once a week)
Plus my work one I can block whole domains on the email server e.g. *@*.com.br *@hotmail.com etc etc etc
My spam trap address automatically sends everything that lands there to spamcop
You do know the USA does this too.
Feel free to show when Apple has ever bought back old technology
The did not do it with
The floppy disk
The CD/DVD
The serial Port
Adobe Flash
Hardware keypad on the iPhone
Technology moves on and that means better technology comes along. You can either cling to old tech or move on to better tech.
Either way, no one actually cares what YOU choose, it makes ZERO difference in what anyone else does
I have used computers since CPM2.2, seen huge technological changes and I have ALWAYS bought gear that suited ME, I am happy to change and adapt and learn. What you do and the choices you make have less impact on my life than how many frogs there are in Tunisia, and they have ZERO impact"
No.
They did not care what PC computers had when they
Dumped the serial port
Dumped the floppy disk
Dumped the CD/DVD
Never implemented Flash on the iPhone Adobe flash
Never had a hardware keyboard on their iPhone
At every change it was "Apple will go broke in weeks, you just see" and Apple carried on, and made even more money.
And eventually everyone else followed their lead.
So, does Apple care what "followers" do, no a chance.
Sure, but the reason there are there is for motorists to notice.
Given most (?) cars have only one occupant, the majority of people the billboard is aimed at is the driver.
to do that, it becomes a distraction.
It was posted more in response to the ludicrous suggestion that if you SatNav was a distraction you could still be prosecuted.