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NSA, DOE Say China's Supercomputing Advances Put US At Risk (computerworld.com)
dcblogs quotes a report from Computerworld: Advanced computing experts at the National Security Agency and the Department of Energy are warning that China is "extremely likely" to take leadership in supercomputing as early as 2020, unless the U.S. acts quickly to increase spending. China's supercomputing advances are not only putting national security at risk, but also U.S. leadership in high-tech manufacturing. If China succeeds, it may "undermine profitable parts of the U.S. economy," according to a report titled U.S. Leadership in High Performance Computing by HPC technical experts at the NSA, the DOE, the National Science Foundation and other agencies. The report stems from a workshop held in September that was attended by 60 people, many scientists, 40 of whom work in government, with the balance representing industry and academia. "Meeting participants, especially those from industry, noted that it can be easy for Americans to draw the wrong conclusions about what HPC investments by China mean -- without considering China's motivations," the report states. "These participants stressed that their personal interactions with Chinese researchers and at supercomputing centers showed a mindset where computing is first and foremost a strategic capability for improving the country; for pulling a billion people out of poverty; for supporting companies that are looking to build better products, or bridges, or rail networks; for transitioning away from a role as a low-cost manufacturer for the world; for enabling the economy to move from 'Made in China' to 'Made by China.'"
Instead of billions on a stupid wall, invest billions in supercomputing tech. Hell, invest billions in semiconductor tech, cuz China is trying to take the lead in semiconductors big time.
Fucking Trump, trying to bring back manufacturing when he doesn't understand the concept of "robot".
Almost all computers are manufactured in China or Taiwan nowadays.
http://ctacs.weebly.com/news--articles/will-your-next-laptop-be-quanta-compal-wistron-or-clevo
Perhaps the US should start manufacturing computers again?
copy paste
"Mr. President we must not allow a mineshaft gap!"
Alternatively, you could stop spying on everything everyone does, and use some of that money to cover your new toys.
Out here in the real world, we're about done writing blank checks for "national security" and "them terrists". No one would ever notice if you cut your mission in half.
Who is he talking about? Who's "us"?
This is such crap. If the Chinese build a super computer that is twice as fast as our fastest one, it isn't going to be a national security crisis. We'll just have to run ours twice as long, or build two of them. It isn't like a 2x or even 10x speed difference makes any real difference in the problems you can solve. Let me know when they get to 1000x.
"We have to spend more money on this project or we will all die"
Spying on citizens or supercomputing advances.
The TLAs made their choice, so they should shut the fuck up or change course.
if your strength relies upon the weakness of others, then it isn't really strength. I know, "without light there is no dark" "without up there is no down" "without weakness there is no strength" - no. China is just 1 country, and has 6x the number of people. There are plenty of other countries that are in poor shape, if we (in the US) really feel we need to be "superior" to someone else. Until then, this kind of crap is a waste of tax dollars, under the thinly veiled cover of nationalism
If they didn't force the next crypto standard to be $whatever_they_can_crack+1 and instead actually raised the key sizes and rounds to future proof things we'd be fine.
But they like to serve dual purposes like the current issue with AES, key derivation.... Design a nice weakness into the keyspace with only a small portion of the space having strong security guarantees and then of course create a single focal-point for all government agencies to ask for secure keys. Nice way to have a system that can be provably secure if anyone ever complains, you just say they choose a bad key and toss out a strong keyed example for the math proofs to calm the fears of any backdoors.
This lovely setup they use is at risk now because another country may just do a +2 or more increase in computing power and they only hardened us against a +1 increase.
Time to use stronger keys, more rounds, multiple sources of randomness, and clusters of computers each performing small chunks of the work to thwart any single system attack using homomorhic verifiable crypto. Patch GPG to allow larger key sizes (it's very easy and documented online) and only use these larger sizes. Start monitoring your system entropy levels when using lots of SSL sites since they all do now....
Wise up your OpSec.....
US incompetence is portrayed as being a victim. As if China is a threat because the US has not done anything for decades. China deserves respect for getting their fingers out of their arses while the US is too busy wasting its money invading innocent counties. If we are to talk about risk discuss the real problem if we are talking about Chinese advances have the balls to show some respect.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
The Clinton administration authorized the sale of Cray computers and other computer technology to China in the 1990's as a "good will" gesture. China appears to have figured them out.
China saves money on military equipment because they can buy stuff made in China. The soldiers are also cheaper, for the same reason: they are made in China.
We're stuck with the high cost.
We also throw weird crap into our military budget, like healthcare and education for veterans. Military spending is partly socialized medicine.
Bring in the overclockers! Then outsource their jobs! Let them train their replacements: robots who will work overtime for half the price! Give them incentives, like more money! Or more A.I. So that these robot replacements will unionize, after 3D printing guns and ammo Let them go and hire robot lawyers, who get to work in self-driving cars, while they watch the news and text their robot BFFs!
I plan to snatch back the leadership back by assembling a few millions of raspberry pi. YEAH!
^(oo)^pig~
Since Donald Trump thinks China is the problem, claiming a lack of fund is going to let China overtake US seems a very good strategy to get funds.
China builds worldâ(TM)s fastest supercomputer without U.S. chips
Chinaâ(TM)s New Supercomputer Puts the US Even Further Behind
The next one is going to be 10 times as fast:
Tianhe-3 will be 10 times faster than the current fastest supercomputer in the world, the Sunway TaihuLight
It seems you want government to run industry. That is, you seek communism. You can have it faster if you move to a communist country. Maybe you should move to China... though they have a wall that might upset you.
Walls generate tourism and thus bring in income: China's wall is mostly in bad repair, but the tourists still love it. The pope has a wall around his country. The wall in Jerusalem is busy with tourists praying. Even the little remaining bits of the London wall (from the Romans) and the Berlin wall are getting tourists. We need to compete, building a "Great Wall of America".
Walls work. Israel has built several, causing huge reductions in deadly attacks. Mexico even built one to the south, since Mexico doesn't like illegals. (Mexico deports them. Mexico also checks ID for voting. Mexico doesn't allow anchor babies or "dreamers" or hand out benefits to the children of illegals.)
Obama has a wall around his house. It's OK for him, but not for us regular people?
All non-military, non-entitlement budget entries are going to be dramatically slashed in the current president's upcoming budget.
#DeleteChrome
"HPC leadership" by itself is pointless. China owning big computers doesn't put the USA at risk. It's what they do with them that matters, and whatever *that* is, you likely won't neutralize it just by building even bigger computers in the USA.
These HPC people are also glossing over the issue that for most important problems, parallelizing over commodity CPUs connected by commodity networks (i.e. the cloud) is far more cost-effective than the "big iron" shared-memory HPC systems, and via Google, Amazon and Microsoft, the USA completely rules that space.
If the USA needs to build really big shared-memory HPC systems to solve some specific problem connected to China, by all means propose that. General scare-mongering about "HPC leadership" is just an invitation to waste taxpayers' money.
"...Kushners, Trump In-Laws, Weigh $400 Million Deal with Chinese Firm "
The problem here is the conflict of interest as much as the poor grasp of science in our fake President.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/kushners-trump-in-laws-near-dollar400-million-deal-with-chinese-firm/ar-AAolWTh?li=BBnbcA1
A New York real estate company owned by the family of President Trump’s son-in-law has been negotiating to sell a $400 million stake in its Fifth Avenue flagship skyscraper to a Chinese insurance company with ties to leading families of the Communist Party.
The article, accurately summarized and absent any clickbait titles: "They have a faster supercomputer than we do. That means they are ranked higher, and are faster than ours. We want the fastest supercomputers. Whoever has the fastest supercomputer can solve all our problems, but that person only. It should be us, so we need the fastest supercomputer."
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Fucking Trump, trying to bring back manufacturing when he doesn't understand the concept of "robot".
Perhaps, but I'm pretty sure he understands the concept of unemployment.
In your opinion, is supercomputing more important than bringing back jobs?
What's your stance on H1B then?
So productive white folks get hyper-taxed for nibber-welfare & can't afford to spend on computer/machine tek and subtle creative meditations. Gotahavethatbling ... when the bootyshakesthatthing. Fuck! Chi.comz when they take over USA will just let the nibbers/narco.MEX & snow-whiteflakes starve-to-death.
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This bulletin just in: "Supercomputing experts say, 'Spend more money on us!''
"Build better bridges".
Not really. The better we've become at engineering, the more we cut the bridge designs from "massively overbuilt, in such a way as to endure they never fall apart" to replace them with "barely overbuilt, in such a way as the first storm slightly out of the overage tolerance we've allowed will cause everything to be destroyed".
Seems stupid.
Rather than trying to figure out how to cut our tolerances as close to the bone as possible, we should probably go back to massively overbuilding things -- and then use our knowledge of tolerances to *ensure* they are massively overbuilt.
If we did that, we wouldn't have things like the 2007 I-35W bridge collapse happening. The bridges might sink into the ground under their own weight, but they wouldn't be collapsing.
The budget freed by that should suffice. And, oh, the DEA too.
"the security of the nation is at risk", because some other country, that happens to be peaceful, has made advancements that we haven't.
That is what happens when you educate foreign nationals in your universities and make all of your stuff in their country.
China has all of its top engineers trained in the US.
The time to worry about China taking over supercomputing is when they announce the opening of a major university and they start recruiting top talent from around the world. Even then it will take at least a generation for a new institution, percolated in a cozy bath of Chinese cultural values, to produce more than the next generation of script kiddies.
Capitalists spent the better part of a half-century driving out skills based work
Not surprisingly, hundreds of thousands of highly educated people decided to go home with their training after their individual H1-B indentures expired and compete with their old bosses
With EVERY product being offshored, the design work of man-millennia has become Chinese property
Thank you very much Capitalists, for making America wilt
The next generation of 'enemies' will now have superior tech to ours...and will win wars, unlike our Pentagon.
NSA wants more money
What do you expect, when you outsource hi-tech and manufacturing? Of course they are going to surpass you someday.
"NSA, DOE want more money"
Every time I see one of these stories, I know it must be budget time.
Tell him that you need all these new supercomputers to make his tweets the bestest, and most read. If that doesn't get you a $10B or so then nothing will.
Except it's not about some vague notion of the "strength" (whatever that means) of the US or the "weakness" of everyone else, or being "superior" in terms of some sort of abstract `virtue'. It's about security vs. vulnerability, which are in fact appropriate to define in terms of the capacity of others to do you harm.
The concerns here are things like:
* China being more capable than the US of running the sort of simulations involved in developing advanced weapons systems, such that China could become invulnerable to US weapons tech while simultaneously meaning that the US is would become increasingly vulnerable to Chinese weapons tech.
* China being more capable than the US of running analytics such that they can circumvent US surveillance capabilities while simultaneously surveilling the US and its allies in ways that the US cannot circumvent.
We're not talking about being on the beach and being jealous of the guy with the big muscles because all of the girls are fawning over him, and figuring that if he'd just leave and let you be the only guy there then surely all of the girls would be fawning over you. It's more like thinking "that guy with the attitude problem has been working out and turning into a real bruiser; pretty soon I might not be able to keep him from kicking my dog anymore".
-rozzin.
China is nearly half a century behind us in military tech. And currently, their budget is a quarter that of the US. I'm not exactly sure what you think they're going to do to us in this or the next generation, but by the time they actually catch up - even if we merely matched their budget - we'd be back to where we were 50 years ago with Russia - neither defensively able to counter the other's offensive capabilities, thus "mutually assured destruction" being the deterrent. On the other hand, maybe the US doesn't need to project military force across the entire farking planet? What craziness could we accomplish if we were just using our military to defend ourselves, not police the planet? (prior military, btw)
You seem to have mistaken me for one of the people in the article. I was merely explaining to article to someone who had misunderstood it (actually, a apparently a number of people who had misunderstood it--seeing as the mistaken comment was highly rated).
I have not done my own analysis of Chinese vs. US capabilities, and even if I had it wouldn't have been based on whatever these people supposedly saw at the conference (since I wasn't there). Maybe the observations expressed in the article were correct, maybe they were mistaken, or maybe they were even lies.
When you write...:
Considered that perhaps the people behind the statements in the article may simple not agree with your premise that cold war is actually a desirable state of affairs. And that's probably in some part due to the fact that "mutually assured destruction" only works as a deterrent on people who aren't suicidal or otherwise find with their victories being pyrrhic; consider, for example, the conversation that Robert McNamara says he had with Fidel Castro in `The Fog of War'--something like:
Another consideration is that 50 years can actually be either an incredibly short or incredibly long period in terms of political relations, military technology, and military capabilities (where "capabilities" isn't actually quite the same thing as "technology"). And part of that consideration is that you may actually not get to choose whether 50 years is `short' or `long'.
And yet another is that, once you get to that `equilibrium' of mutually-assured destruction, even if you assume that everyone else with heavy arms is perfectly sane, it's still not a stable state. e.g.: what if the other if both you and the other guy have enough nuclear ICBMs to ensure mutual destruction given current launch- and early-warning technology, and current levels of strategy and tactics..., and you're not actually at the absolute pinnacle of all of those things yet? What if ICBMs aren't actually the quickest way of obliterating your enemy that will every be possible, and if there are new breakthroughs in strategy or tactics possibly just around the corner?
-rozzin.