There is nothing possible for you to say that will make experience cleaning toilets into knowledge about what robots will be able to do in the future.
Sure there is. "It requires lots of points of articulation, sophisticated software to coordinate said articulation, processes for acquiring and delivering various cleaning supplies,sensors that can properly navigate and gauge completion, and an appropriate power system along with a place to dock, all at a discount price." You are correct that the design of the room can simplify some bits of that. You do, however, over-estimate how much simplification can happen in the practical world, like in my shit-in-the-urinal example.
A status symbol is about causing envy, hard to do when you acquire what everyone else already has. Getting the popular product, however, means you're getting the support of that product. For example, if you're purchasing a game console, you want the popular one so that you have the best selection of games. A purchase of a PS4 right now would hardly be the move of an elitist.
You're wrong because you don't even have the tense right; you gave yourself no chance to even participate in the conversation. You're just telling me I'm wrong, but you don't know what about.
I'm telling you you're wrong because I know what's involved in the cleaning, how much it costs, and what robotics has not achieved in that price-range yet. You either have to do a lot of over-simplifying or just plain be unaware of what all has to be accomplished for this vision of the future to work. It's also possible you know something I don't know, and when you're ready I'd love to hear all about it because I'd actually prefer for you to be right.
This raises an interesting philosophical question: which came first, the iPhone, or the iSmugginess
Neither. Slashdotters generally loved the iPhone when it was released. Remember this was long before Android and when Palm devices were king. They loved having an actual full-on browser on a portable device. One of the big gripes about the iPhone is that it was AT&T only, there was lots of call around here for an iPhone without the phone. (i.e. the iPod Touch...)
Then one day a news story wafted across Slashdot. Just days before the one-year mark of the release of the iPhone a story came along that people were waiting in line for the iPhone 2, believing it'd be released on the first anniversary of the original iPhone's launch. Instantly everybody bought this without any checking whatsoever. The 'smugginess' came from those who felt they were above waiting in line to get their hands on a new product! Bam, now we all hate Apple.
Oh and that line of people, it was just at one store, and they had come by a couple of days before to make a purchase and their inventory was out. They were told that was the restocking day and they were just waiting in line for that. In other words: Typical retail stuff, nothing out of the ordinary other than assumptions made just because it was at an Apple Store.
An engineer is telling me it's not a hard problem because I'm not imagining a fictional future. Yes, that circumstance will cause me to lean towards my life-experience. If you would like to show me why I'm wrong then by all means, please do. As a lazy person who desperately wants his home to clean itself I would *love* to be wrong here, you would only make me happy.
You've never been to a restaurant designed to be staffed by robots, so you have no idea if it will pleasant, or unpleasant.
I've worked in restaurants, I've cleaned food prep equipment, I've cleaned bathrooms, and I've visited many places designed to be minimally maintained. I certainly do have an idea and can tell you that there is a ton of innovation that needs to happen in this area.
I'm sure this could replace at at a minimum 3 workers just by itself (1 cook per 8/hr shift).
Well, let's see about that. At the fast food place I worked at it would be useless until after 11am when the breakfast menu is over. During the high-volume lunch shift while all hands are on deck... yep, it could replace someone there.
In the evening shift? Hrmm maybe on busy nights, but even at our slowest at least one person had to be in the kitchen because, like just about every fast-food joint on the planet, we served more than just burgers. Also at night we had to break everything down and do the nightly cleaning. We are talking about food stuffs here and don't want people getting sick. There are times where that machine could have filled in for someone during the evening shift, but during the times where we just had one person it would be overhead. Unless this machine is set up at a store that's constantly busy throughout the day, and it's one that only sells burgers, I think 3 shift replacements is overly optimistic.
To be fair to your point, the store I was at was not a 24 hour store (although 6am to 1am felt pretty close to it...) and although I have some doubts about it, maybe the machine is adaptable to the morning menu. One thing that would *have* to happen is someone would have to be there at every shift who can do the general "turn it off and then on again" tech support when the machine inevitably fails. This would preferably be someone who can take over and keep the food coming until either a technician or a replacement arrives. This would have to be one of the concessions of running a store like this. That might be fine, but I hope they're not banking on this thing being 100% reliable. Personally I'd be surprised if they were able to reduce their shifts by one 8-hour shift per day, let alone 3.
I would also offer that when a robot says "That's not my job", he means it. I was a burger-flipper that has also shoveled snow in the parking-lot.
No, and I'm not quite sure why you willfully read it that way. A place designed for public use but minimal human presence for maintenance is usually quite unpleasant. Try a restroom at a local park Who is going to purchase food at a place that feels like a bio-hazard-waiting-to-happen?
Who's going to straighten up the aisles throughout the day as customers move through? Who's going to detect then replace a lightbulb that burned out on the floor? Who's going to clean up kid-vomit or pick up broken glass? (Don't forget how lawsuit-happy this country is.)
Denial? I've actually have worked in retail and in fast food, I remember what my jobs actually were and the bizarre silliness customers cause. As of today your options are to automate very specific tasks of running a place like that, or you can build a low-maintenance facility that, frankly, will be ugly. Nobody likes using the bathroom at the park.
Yes, I get that the point is to have fewer humans on the crew, the issue is that you really over-estimate how much of that you can really do. So long as you have to keep the people around anyway, they're going to decide not to bother to automate some things. "Well, the robot can clean the floor... but not until someone moves all the chairs. Oh, hell, skip the mop-bot and just have the guy that's moving the chairs do the mopping."
I don't have a mental issue that prevents me from believing it will happen one day. What I do have is experience in working in these places that tells me that there are far more of those little tasks invovled in running a place like that. Also I am under-impressed with our current state of robotics, at least in this context. Yes, we can build a machine that can reliably assemble a burger. We just can't build it to properly clean itself every night.
Ladder climbing was multiple times daily. Think about what it takes to clean a lobby and how tall windows can be. Also think about how crappy the battery life of your smartphone is and the power cable plugged into a robot arm. Just think.
Robotics is nowhere near where TV led you to believe and your lack of appreciation of what goes in to running a public-facing business is, frankly, frightening... assuming you're a voter.
You would be surprised how often I've climbed ladders, neatly stacked condiments in the lobby, driven to the local grocery store to deal with inventory shortcomings, and cleaned shit out of urinals during my employment in fast food.
Factories are not open to the public like fast food is. If you don't see what a difference that makes then I suggest you visit the bathroom of a highly-visited public beach and admire your reflection in the non-existent mirror.
Slashdot Mirror
Apple is a predatory company exploiting slave labor in china.
Without looking it up list five other companies doing the same thing.
Yes, I'm clearly using my phone differently than you use yours. Not sure what the hostilty is about, though.
What does me also disliking Apple for a variety of reasons have to do with my buying decision? Nothing.
I didn't say anything about what motivates your purchasing decisions. What I did say was Android fans hate other peoples' phones. Heh.
Try to use that hardware without iTunes. No really, try it.
Going on six years now.
Actually I was wrong, and frankly kinda shocked. I thought I had found a $50 replacement controller but it was the 'Pro-Controller'.
I apologize for my error. The best I found was $130.
So lets make a console for children with a controller that costs 180 bucks to replace....
$50 to replace.
Heh. You responded to something I didn't say and supported my point with what you did say.
Heh. Whatever you say, man. Good night!
There is nothing possible for you to say that will make experience cleaning toilets into knowledge about what robots will be able to do in the future.
Sure there is. "It requires lots of points of articulation, sophisticated software to coordinate said articulation, processes for acquiring and delivering various cleaning supplies,sensors that can properly navigate and gauge completion, and an appropriate power system along with a place to dock, all at a discount price." You are correct that the design of the room can simplify some bits of that. You do, however, over-estimate how much simplification can happen in the practical world, like in my shit-in-the-urinal example.
A status symbol is about causing envy, hard to do when you acquire what everyone else already has. Getting the popular product, however, means you're getting the support of that product. For example, if you're purchasing a game console, you want the popular one so that you have the best selection of games. A purchase of a PS4 right now would hardly be the move of an elitist.
Yes.
You're wrong because you don't even have the tense right; you gave yourself no chance to even participate in the conversation. You're just telling me I'm wrong, but you don't know what about.
I'm telling you you're wrong because I know what's involved in the cleaning, how much it costs, and what robotics has not achieved in that price-range yet. You either have to do a lot of over-simplifying or just plain be unaware of what all has to be accomplished for this vision of the future to work. It's also possible you know something I don't know, and when you're ready I'd love to hear all about it because I'd actually prefer for you to be right.
Mass-market phones that have sold into the tens of millions are not 'status symbols'.
This raises an interesting philosophical question: which came first, the iPhone, or the iSmugginess
Neither. Slashdotters generally loved the iPhone when it was released. Remember this was long before Android and when Palm devices were king. They loved having an actual full-on browser on a portable device. One of the big gripes about the iPhone is that it was AT&T only, there was lots of call around here for an iPhone without the phone. (i.e. the iPod Touch...)
Then one day a news story wafted across Slashdot. Just days before the one-year mark of the release of the iPhone a story came along that people were waiting in line for the iPhone 2, believing it'd be released on the first anniversary of the original iPhone's launch. Instantly everybody bought this without any checking whatsoever. The 'smugginess' came from those who felt they were above waiting in line to get their hands on a new product! Bam, now we all hate Apple.
Oh and that line of people, it was just at one store, and they had come by a couple of days before to make a purchase and their inventory was out. They were told that was the restocking day and they were just waiting in line for that. In other words: Typical retail stuff, nothing out of the ordinary other than assumptions made just because it was at an Apple Store.
Yeah, I was going to say: If Google actually did do their job correctly they wouldn't be able to monetize GMail.
An engineer is telling me it's not a hard problem because I'm not imagining a fictional future. Yes, that circumstance will cause me to lean towards my life-experience. If you would like to show me why I'm wrong then by all means, please do. As a lazy person who desperately wants his home to clean itself I would *love* to be wrong here, you would only make me happy.
Android fans are programmed to be hostile towards the competition. Apple fans love their phones, Android fans hate your phone.
You've never been to a restaurant designed to be staffed by robots, so you have no idea if it will pleasant, or unpleasant.
I've worked in restaurants, I've cleaned food prep equipment, I've cleaned bathrooms, and I've visited many places designed to be minimally maintained. I certainly do have an idea and can tell you that there is a ton of innovation that needs to happen in this area.
It is just an imagination fail on your part.
Ah, yes, the power of ignorance. Exciting.
I'm sure this could replace at at a minimum 3 workers just by itself (1 cook per 8/hr shift).
Well, let's see about that. At the fast food place I worked at it would be useless until after 11am when the breakfast menu is over. During the high-volume lunch shift while all hands are on deck... yep, it could replace someone there.
In the evening shift? Hrmm maybe on busy nights, but even at our slowest at least one person had to be in the kitchen because, like just about every fast-food joint on the planet, we served more than just burgers. Also at night we had to break everything down and do the nightly cleaning. We are talking about food stuffs here and don't want people getting sick. There are times where that machine could have filled in for someone during the evening shift, but during the times where we just had one person it would be overhead. Unless this machine is set up at a store that's constantly busy throughout the day, and it's one that only sells burgers, I think 3 shift replacements is overly optimistic.
To be fair to your point, the store I was at was not a 24 hour store (although 6am to 1am felt pretty close to it...) and although I have some doubts about it, maybe the machine is adaptable to the morning menu. One thing that would *have* to happen is someone would have to be there at every shift who can do the general "turn it off and then on again" tech support when the machine inevitably fails. This would preferably be someone who can take over and keep the food coming until either a technician or a replacement arrives. This would have to be one of the concessions of running a store like this. That might be fine, but I hope they're not banking on this thing being 100% reliable. Personally I'd be surprised if they were able to reduce their shifts by one 8-hour shift per day, let alone 3.
I would also offer that when a robot says "That's not my job", he means it. I was a burger-flipper that has also shoveled snow in the parking-lot.
No, and I'm not quite sure why you willfully read it that way. A place designed for public use but minimal human presence for maintenance is usually quite unpleasant. Try a restroom at a local park Who is going to purchase food at a place that feels like a bio-hazard-waiting-to-happen?
Who's going to straighten up the aisles throughout the day as customers move through? Who's going to detect then replace a lightbulb that burned out on the floor? Who's going to clean up kid-vomit or pick up broken glass? (Don't forget how lawsuit-happy this country is.)
Denial? I've actually have worked in retail and in fast food, I remember what my jobs actually were and the bizarre silliness customers cause. As of today your options are to automate very specific tasks of running a place like that, or you can build a low-maintenance facility that, frankly, will be ugly. Nobody likes using the bathroom at the park.
Yes, I get that the point is to have fewer humans on the crew, the issue is that you really over-estimate how much of that you can really do. So long as you have to keep the people around anyway, they're going to decide not to bother to automate some things. "Well, the robot can clean the floor... but not until someone moves all the chairs. Oh, hell, skip the mop-bot and just have the guy that's moving the chairs do the mopping."
I don't have a mental issue that prevents me from believing it will happen one day. What I do have is experience in working in these places that tells me that there are far more of those little tasks invovled in running a place like that. Also I am under-impressed with our current state of robotics, at least in this context. Yes, we can build a machine that can reliably assemble a burger. We just can't build it to properly clean itself every night.
Try building a robot that can lift all the chairs in the lobby so the floor can be mopped, then clean the windows.
Try a low-maintenance restroom sometime.
Ladder climbing was multiple times daily. Think about what it takes to clean a lobby and how tall windows can be. Also think about how crappy the battery life of your smartphone is and the power cable plugged into a robot arm. Just think.
Robotics is nowhere near where TV led you to believe and your lack of appreciation of what goes in to running a public-facing business is, frankly, frightening... assuming you're a voter.
You would be surprised how often I've climbed ladders, neatly stacked condiments in the lobby, driven to the local grocery store to deal with inventory shortcomings,
and cleaned shit out of urinals during my employment in fast food.
Factories are not open to the public like fast food is. If you don't see what a difference that makes then I suggest you visit the bathroom of a highly-visited public beach and admire your reflection in the non-existent mirror.