We need to disentangle why Wikipedia (and other resources) might not be suitable for citing
1. Rapidly changing content. Can be resolved be identifying which specific version is being referred to, like any other resource.
2. Not authoritative. University level educators usually prefer only peer-reviewed material to be cited, or material to have been checked by some reasonably trustworthy rigourous procedure. This is where Wikipedia is potentially weakest, or perhaps most challenging of the traditional model.
I can understand the college making its life easier by a blanket ban on Wikipedia, it's up to Wikipedia to raise its standards to be acceptable to academic institutions.
In a number of cases I know of high quality articles, for example where the primary authors are world-renown in the field they are writing on. But the amount of work required to identify high quality articles is probably still too great for a harassed lecturer who has a hundred essays to mark amongst a thousand other jobs, I can understand them falling back on only accepting from known sources.
My question would be: what does Wikipedia have to do to become accepted as an academic source?
"One of the big electricity hogs in our house is the pool pump, and there's not much you can do about that; if you don't pump long enough on the pool every day, it turns green."
Answer. Don't have a pool. That will reduce your electricity usage. A lot more than sorting out power management on your Ubuntu box. But if you want to keep a pool and run a pool pump, you're going to use a lot of energy. Your choice on your life style. It sounds like you're holding back on pv panels because they are too expensive, well, save money by not having a pool...
Throwing nuclear waste down a 65 metre hole in the ground including fissile material and then being surprised when the cap blows off and showers the area with radioactive waste does not appear to be a responsible use of nuclear power to me. Read up on Dounreay power station in Scotland: http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=12626 82002
Why did Windscale change its name to Sellafield? read up on the history of that plant. Hint: read up on the 1957 Windscale Fire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windscale_fire
Are they preparing for some sort of application which will include a future copyrighting/patenting claim on a word containing "label" because they can't do it with the word "tag"?
A bit like the "iPhone" fuss?
(sorry, not a lawyer so probably mixing up patenting and copyrighting, you know, something that people would think of as just a fun word in most places but will lead to somebody sueing somebody else for multiple trillions of dollars in the the USA;-) )
Sometimes its too expensive to run in-house tests. I work with a variety of small community groups that use IT, and also advise friends who are students and low income. I can't turn round to these people and tell them -
"Buy a laptop (/digital camera/access point/ etc) randomly and if it doesn't come up with the goods throw it in the garbage can out the back of your property and buy another one and test that, continue until you find the right one"
- I'm afraid that's just not a solution for people/organisations on limited income. Useful advice for good reviews to read is really useful.
p.s. can I have all the brand new kit that you throw out for not being up to standard after you've tested it?:-)
".. in comparison to prisoners in previous wars (and most prisoners of war through-out the world) I would say that the mistreatment is not grounds for the use of the term War Crime."
During WW2 most parties adhered to the Geneva Convention and treated prisoners and civilians with some degree of respect. Acts of terror that were undertaken which did not respect this Convention have been rightly viewed with disgust ever since (for example, how partisans/insurgents across Europe were treated if captured). After WW2 the allies, including the Americans, brought the leading Nazis to trial. Publicly recorded, given defence lawyers, given the opportunity to publicly offer their side of the story. People who had committed terrible crimes and killed many thousands of people over long periods of time.
Now, there are people in Guantanamo Bay that the US authorities claim they have the right to keep as long as they like without trial, without access to any outside legal support, and that they can interview under duress (some may say 'torture') whenever the US authorities want to. Some of these people may not have even committed a crime, they might just have been in the wrong place at the wrong time (such as the British citizens who were released claim). Even those interned who have committed crimes haven't carried out acts on the scale of those leading Nazis who were given public trials.
This seems to me to be at the very least putting the USA in a morally difficult position; these actions may not be war crimes, but they are not attractive actions that will win many friends or allow the US authorities to take the moral high ground.
I'm really interested as a whole state means quite a population. I wonder if India might become the first major country to move beyond rhetoric and really take on FOSS. It would be quite a driver if this actually happens.
Surely the fact that Kerala has a communist majority in its democratically elected government is pretty irrelevant beyond making a headline to get USians excited?
I'd suggest *population distribution* is more of an issue -too many in south east of England, quite sparse in other areas. English average population density for example is 3.77 people per hectare (Office of National Statistics 2005).
Household density might also be an issue: in England and Wales the average number of people per household in 2.31 http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/c ommentaries/housing.asp Maybe if more people shared we'd have more space. My understanding (no reference, sorry) is that the UK has been moving from multiple occupancy to single occupancy. Plus the average house size (and land round it is increasing).
>Most people can't even afford a house to live in
I agree with you on that one, I am in that situation myself. I'd suggest that's got as much to do with the economic model of the country as anything else. People paying 100,000+ for single room "studios" in the South East doesn't help.
>The roads are congested
Number of cars is not tied to a direct correlation with population. You have to factor in expectation of people for cars they own. New towns in the 60s were built with the expectation that family houses would have one, possibly two cars. These days a family of two parents and three over 18 yr old kids might expect space for 5 cars. Get out of your car, use public transport, pressurise the government to improve it. Length of one Routemaster bus (traditional London red bus) 8.38m, seats 64 people. I've stood waiting for buses in Islington (London) held up by car traffic and most of the cars have one person each in them. Length of a Ford Fiesta: 3.99metres. So 64 Ford Fiestas takes up 256m of road against the same people in a Routemaster - less than 9 metres. Do the maths, why are roads congested? Get people to use mass transit systems.
>there's hardly any countryside left, there's nowhere to build anything or do anything.
Very scientific. Care to be a little more precise?
I agree population is gradually rising, I understand your concerns but I think we've got to take a broader view of what is going on. I completely agree that house prices are unequal, I am thinking of moving to the north of the UK for that reason so I can buy somewhere to live. But I don't think it's as simple as being draconic on immigration. I'm arguing that if the birth rate from UK citizens is declining, maybe we need to encourage young people from elsewhere to move into the UK. I think you're suggesting we let population decline. I'd say that's fine in theory but in 50 years time there's going to be a lot of old people who can't get cared for, a really social problem.
The population of Europe is definitely ageing, we have a problem with supporting pensions and health services in less than 50 years time, more people will be trying to claim than paying in: "The proportion of population at working ages is set to fall as the baby boomers move into retirement and are replaced by the smaller numbers of people born in each year since the 1960s." http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nugget.asp?ID=949 &Pos=&ColRank=1&Rank=342
I welcome your proposed solutions. You've heard some of mine.
Sure speed limits are political (politics root = state, or city) rather than engineering.
On engineering terms it would be fine for some roads in the middle of towns to be set at 100mph because many cars are engineered well enough to keep on those roads and turn off those roads under control going up to that speed.
But people aren't machines. Small children will run after their ball into the road, and 100mph cars and small children don't mix. So despite what the cars and roads are technically capable of, people aren't capable of reaching such engineering standards.
Speed limits out of town - well same issue - you as a healthy fit highly trained driver in your brand new Porsche might be able to do 150mph down a desert road but a little old guy in his old car might completely freak out if you drive at that speed right up to him. He might make a mistake because he is stressed by your high speed driving - pull in front of you, slam the brakes on, drive off the road etc. So a road accident might happen even though you are confident in your capacity.
Of course speed limits are about people, and not engineering. Speed limits are about making the road safe for the weakest and most vulnerable of legitimate road users, not about the strongest and most able. Machinery has surpassed our capacities a long time ago.
We're an ageing population in Europe, people aren't having kids. We need more immigration. Who's going to look after you when you're 85 and need nursing help?
I couldn't work out from your posting if you're currently serving in the US military or are ex-military? is this your perspective? Interested to hear about your personal (rather than magazine informed) experiences of this situation.
Lighten up my friend. I think we're all just having a laugh discovering how many different systems of measures we're all using even in this small corner of the world...
...unless you're in Scotland where a good number of pubs sell spirits (inc whisky) in 1/4 gill measures...:-) ( I guess they are moving over to what ever that is ml but I think they'll take some time about it...)
no way, our pints are bigger than your pints? no wonder it's hard to get pished in the USA. Maybe cos your beer's weak as well;-) (ducks!)
hehe I seem to remember the standard bar measurement for a beer in the US is "a beer" or "a bottle" generally:-)
well a pint is sort of half a litre. I think us humans are comfortable with generalisations. I know that's *incredibly* inexact (more like 0.55 litres) but ya know, if your idea of a good night out is 2 pints/4 pints / 8 pints.. then if you order that in half litres when you're in France/ Germany/most of Europe you're in the same sort of territory of being able to walk/needing a taxi/needing a really big greasy take away..
I think that's fine, as long as the doctors are precise when measuring out 50ml of some chemical so put in to a sick person or an engineer is using exact mm when building a component etc...
yeah, cars drive in miles per hour here still, we're a right bastard nation! as with most things to do with the EU, the UK has dug its heels in and is slowest to change. There's a big old fuss a year ago when the law changed so all shops (including small market traders) had to sell things in kilos and grams instead of pounds and ounces. A few people fussed, most traders just put both measures and the whole thing seems to have blown over. I reckon people will have moved over in twenty years or so. The change over to decimal money in 1971 was the same, people fussed but got used to it.
I think we'll gradually move over to kilometres per hour, probably have a period of dual signs or something daft and then go over. It's funny how some things have changed and others haven't. Most people can informally move between both systems with enough accuracy to get by.
Cheers for cup measurement, I gave up after screwing up some recipes by guessing which cup I should use and got a measuring jug which does cups, fluid ounces and ml, hehe:-)
First time I have heard the expression "American Units" - can any US readers clarify what you generally call this measuring system (inches, miles, pounds, etc) over there?
I've heard USians call them "English" and over here in the UK we call such a system "Imperial" - though I know there are differences - our gallon is different to yours, you use "cups" for cooking while if using imperial we'd use ounces (that one confuses me a lot, we have lots of different sized cups in the kitchen for drinking out of!).
I suppose it's kind of more honest to call the system "American Units" as its what you guys use... (USA not = all of America is another discussion) - what is the feet and inches system called generally (or legally)?
Nope, irrelevant. I live in a 1729 built house in Buckinghamshire (ironically, quite near Milton Keynes, that English attempt at a 60s new town). I used to live in East London in a 19th century redbrick terraced house. Let me tell you, no standard measurements in either. I fitted the entire kitchen in the London house and there wasn't a 90 degree angle in any of the walls, or a length in exact feet in any direction, mm just as useful as inches. Same in the current 1729 house.
Maybe reasonably modern mass produced houses (1900 - 1970, say) might have standard imperial measurements, but in the UK I'd say a lot of our housing stock is *too* old to have standardised fittings. I'd say standardised imperial measured houses are probably a blip...
Rubbish, I'm British, aged 40, I use metric for more than I use imperial, I don't think I am alone. People my age and younger are generally conversant in moving between the two systems because of our half arsed mix in the UK. I think it would be fairer to say in the UK people generally move between the two informally, but work in metric in formal situations. Skinfitz: can you give us examples of scientific or engineering companies you know that do their work in imperial? I don't think this happens, small places might take on work in imperial measurements but I think they are few and far between these days.
Me and all my mates use metres,cm,mm etc for measurement, that's what the big shops in the UK all use for their stuff. Now your corner hardware store, yes they use imperial but we know the kind of cherished special places they are and the people that run them- they are not exactly the norm. But if I am going to get some plumbing piping or shelving I get out my metric tape measure and work out the maths in cm and mm.
Incidently I drive a 60s car so I have to move between Imperial and Whitworth inches!
Well said. If you've got as far as an interview, and assuming the company isn't a bunch of weirdos playing with people's lives, then surely this says short list = pretty well good enough, we're down to the fine detail.
So if you as an employer have somebody step into the room for an interview, the last stage of the selection process, who is terribly unqualified for the post - I think it's time for *you the employer* to do some serious reflection. How did that person get as far as the interview? Time to talk with your human resources department, third party hiring agencies, the boss, or whoever shortlists applicants. It's time to improve your process for choosing folk for interview. I have to ask - how did that person get so far through your selection process?
Simple machine so good for the retired? go back to your lollipop you patronising kid! Becoming 65 doesn't mean relapse into child like state.
My dad retired a couple of years ago, signed up for a computer course (never used one before) and now he's got a digital camera and he's playing with Photoshop.
Some folk over 65 might want a simplified device but I know a heck of a lot of retired folks who have a lot more experience than the average college kid at dealing with complex devices and fine at picking up a new one.
"temperatures are more useful for most people in imperial"
Nope, socially constructed, all total rubbish (with all due respect). I'm in the UK and we use a right mix up so I'd say it's just what you grow up with and get used to. I haven't the faintest idea what old people (and Americans) are going on about when they say the weather is in the 50s or the 90s or the 40s but I've got a good idea what clothes to wear if it's 5, or 15, or -1. Meanwhile I feel comfortable with miles and yet metres, grin! because I've grown up in a country which uses a right mix -folk generally talk in miles for long distances rather than km's even though we're metric, and on smaller day to day things folks my age and younger (I'm 40) have grown up being taught metric. But I can switch to imperial inches/yards if I have to, can do pounds and ounces and even remember that a US gallon is different from one of our gallons!
Never got area though, I can't look at a field and tell you how many acres OR hectares it is!!:-)
I think it's all just what you've been taught and had ten years at school plus some at college being forced to use, completely socially constructed, neither is more convenient for estimating. My shout as someone who was taught as the change was happening in the education system so got a bit of both is that as a kid knowing everything was 10x10x10x10... was a damn sight easier to remember (and multiply) than 12x3x1760... and don't even get me started on money, pffh! 4 farthings to a penny to 12 to the shilling to 20 to the pound and throw in crowns and guineas for good measure... I loved decimal money!
Taking it might be fun but ten minutes later you'd realise you'd paid some dodgy Essex fisherman a huge chunk of money to leave you marooned on a stinky rusting lump of steel ten miles off the British Coast in the North Sea. Not the exotic Caribbean, but a grey old sea full of industrial waste, oil tankers and seagulls that want to poop on you and your new found hulk ^H^H^H empire . Throw in pretty poor weather and lack of basic amenities and the sinking feeling that the dodgy fisherman is going to ask double to take you back to Blighty once you've spent a miserable night huddling in the burnt out remains of the portacabin or whatever's left on the old gunnery platform. There's a reason that these platforms had a high suicide rate amongst troops stationed on them in the Second World War...
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We need to disentangle why Wikipedia (and other resources) might not be suitable for citing
1. Rapidly changing content. Can be resolved be identifying which specific version is being referred to, like any other resource.
2. Not authoritative. University level educators usually prefer only peer-reviewed material to be cited, or material to have been checked by some reasonably trustworthy rigourous procedure. This is where Wikipedia is potentially weakest, or perhaps most challenging of the traditional model.
I can understand the college making its life easier by a blanket ban on Wikipedia, it's up to Wikipedia to raise its standards to be acceptable to academic institutions.
In a number of cases I know of high quality articles, for example where the primary authors are world-renown in the field they are writing on. But the amount of work required to identify high quality articles is probably still too great for a harassed lecturer who has a hundred essays to mark amongst a thousand other jobs, I can understand them falling back on only accepting from known sources.
My question would be: what does Wikipedia have to do to become accepted as an academic source?
I knew you guys had nickels and dimes, but nobody told me you guys had pennies, farthings, and ha'pennies!
;-)
You'll be telling me you've got thruppenny bits and silver sixpences next...
Somebody just let me know how many US guineas there are to the dollar
... but maybe some of the people didn't read the article :-)
You said it yourself buddy...
"One of the big electricity hogs in our house is the pool pump, and there's not much you can do about that; if you don't pump long enough on the pool every day, it turns green."
Answer. Don't have a pool. That will reduce your electricity usage. A lot more than sorting out power management on your Ubuntu box. But if you want to keep a pool and run a pool pump, you're going to use a lot of energy. Your choice on your life style. It sounds like you're holding back on pv panels because they are too expensive, well, save money by not having a pool...
Throwing nuclear waste down a 65 metre hole in the ground including fissile material and then being surprised when the cap blows off and showers the area with radioactive waste does not appear to be a responsible use of nuclear power to me. Read up on Dounreay power station in Scotland: http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=12626 82002
Why did Windscale change its name to Sellafield? read up on the history of that plant. Hint: read up on the 1957 Windscale Fire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windscale_fire
Are they preparing for some sort of application which will include a future copyrighting/patenting claim on a word containing "label" because they can't do it with the word "tag"?
;-) )
A bit like the "iPhone" fuss?
(sorry, not a lawyer so probably mixing up patenting and copyrighting, you know, something that people would think of as just a fun word in most places but will lead to somebody sueing somebody else for multiple trillions of dollars in the the USA
Sometimes its too expensive to run in-house tests. I work with a variety of small community groups that use IT, and also advise friends who are students and low income. I can't turn round to these people and tell them -
:-)
"Buy a laptop (/digital camera/access point/ etc) randomly and if it doesn't come up with the goods throw it in the garbage can out the back of your property and buy another one and test that, continue until you find the right one"
- I'm afraid that's just not a solution for people/organisations on limited income. Useful advice for good reviews to read is really useful.
p.s. can I have all the brand new kit that you throw out for not being up to standard after you've tested it?
".. in comparison to prisoners in previous wars (and most prisoners of war through-out the world) I would say that the mistreatment is not grounds for the use of the term War Crime."
During WW2 most parties adhered to the Geneva Convention and treated prisoners and civilians with some degree of respect. Acts of terror that were undertaken which did not respect this Convention have been rightly viewed with disgust ever since (for example, how partisans/insurgents across Europe were treated if captured). After WW2 the allies, including the Americans, brought the leading Nazis to trial. Publicly recorded, given defence lawyers, given the opportunity to publicly offer their side of the story. People who had committed terrible crimes and killed many thousands of people over long periods of time.
Now, there are people in Guantanamo Bay that the US authorities claim they have the right to keep as long as they like without trial, without access to any outside legal support, and that they can interview under duress (some may say 'torture') whenever the US authorities want to. Some of these people may not have even committed a crime, they might just have been in the wrong place at the wrong time (such as the British citizens who were released claim). Even those interned who have committed crimes haven't carried out acts on the scale of those leading Nazis who were given public trials.
This seems to me to be at the very least putting the USA in a morally difficult position; these actions may not be war crimes, but they are not attractive actions that will win many friends or allow the US authorities to take the moral high ground.
"Mind you, there was a time or seven hundred in my youth that I might have
So you're saying - big potential audience amongst school aged kids?
I'm really interested as a whole state means quite a population. I wonder if India might become the first major country to move beyond rhetoric and really take on FOSS. It would be quite a driver if this actually happens.
Surely the fact that Kerala has a communist majority in its democratically elected government is pretty irrelevant beyond making a headline to get USians excited?
There are multiple issues here as we both know.
_ population_density - behind Netherlands, South Korea, Japan, India (that was a surprise to me).. busy but not impossible.
c ommentaries/housing.asp
9 &Pos=&ColRank=1&Rank=342
>Britain for example has a population density that's almost unlivable
48th in the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by
I'd suggest *population distribution* is more of an issue -too many in south east of England, quite sparse in other areas. English average population density for example is 3.77 people per hectare (Office of National Statistics 2005).
Household density might also be an issue: in England and Wales the average number of people per household in 2.31 http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/
Maybe if more people shared we'd have more space. My understanding (no reference, sorry) is that the UK has been moving from multiple occupancy to single occupancy. Plus the average house size (and land round it is increasing).
>Most people can't even afford a house to live in
I agree with you on that one, I am in that situation myself. I'd suggest that's got as much to do with the economic model of the country as anything else. People paying 100,000+ for single room "studios" in the South East doesn't help.
>The roads are congested
Number of cars is not tied to a direct correlation with population. You have to factor in expectation of people for cars they own. New towns in the 60s were built with the expectation that family houses would have one, possibly two cars. These days a family of two parents and three over 18 yr old kids might expect space for 5 cars. Get out of your car, use public transport, pressurise the government to improve it. Length of one Routemaster bus (traditional London red bus) 8.38m, seats 64 people. I've stood waiting for buses in Islington (London) held up by car traffic and most of the cars have one person each in them. Length of a Ford Fiesta: 3.99metres. So 64 Ford Fiestas takes up 256m of road against the same people in a Routemaster - less than 9 metres. Do the maths, why are roads congested? Get people to use mass transit systems.
>there's hardly any countryside left, there's nowhere to build anything or do anything.
Very scientific. Care to be a little more precise?
I agree population is gradually rising, I understand your concerns but I think we've got to take a broader view of what is going on. I completely agree that house prices are unequal, I am thinking of moving to the north of the UK for that reason so I can buy somewhere to live. But I don't think it's as simple as being draconic on immigration. I'm arguing that if the birth rate from UK citizens is declining, maybe we need to encourage young people from elsewhere to move into the UK. I think you're suggesting we let population decline. I'd say that's fine in theory but in 50 years time there's going to be a lot of old people who can't get cared for, a really social problem.
The population of Europe is definitely ageing, we have a problem with supporting pensions and health services in less than 50 years time, more people will be trying to claim than paying in: "The proportion of population at working ages is set to fall as the baby boomers move into retirement and are replaced by the smaller numbers of people born in each year since the 1960s." http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nugget.asp?ID=94
I welcome your proposed solutions. You've heard some of mine.
Sure speed limits are political (politics root = state, or city) rather than engineering.
On engineering terms it would be fine for some roads in the middle of towns to be set at 100mph because many cars are engineered well enough to keep on those roads and turn off those roads under control going up to that speed.
But people aren't machines. Small children will run after their ball into the road, and 100mph cars and small children don't mix. So despite what the cars and roads are technically capable of, people aren't capable of reaching such engineering standards.
Speed limits out of town - well same issue - you as a healthy fit highly trained driver in your brand new Porsche might be able to do 150mph down a desert road but a little old guy in his old car might completely freak out if you drive at that speed right up to him. He might make a mistake because he is stressed by your high speed driving - pull in front of you, slam the brakes on, drive off the road etc. So a road accident might happen even though you are confident in your capacity.
Of course speed limits are about people, and not engineering. Speed limits are about making the road safe for the weakest and most vulnerable of legitimate road users, not about the strongest and most able. Machinery has surpassed our capacities a long time ago.
We're an ageing population in Europe, people aren't having kids. We need more immigration. Who's going to look after you when you're 85 and need nursing help?
I couldn't work out from your posting if you're currently serving in the US military or are ex-military? is this your perspective? Interested to hear about your personal (rather than magazine informed) experiences of this situation.
Lighten up my friend. I think we're all just having a laugh discovering how many different systems of measures we're all using even in this small corner of the world...
...unless you're in Scotland where a good number of pubs sell spirits (inc whisky) in 1/4 gill measures... :-) ( I guess they are moving over to what ever that is ml but I think they'll take some time about it...)
:-)
;-) (ducks!)
:-)
/4 pints / 8 pints .. then if you order that in half litres when you're in France/ Germany/most of Europe you're in the same sort of territory of being able to walk/needing a taxi/needing a really big greasy take away..
no way, our pints are bigger than your pints? no wonder it's hard to get pished in the USA. Maybe cos your beer's weak as well
hehe I seem to remember the standard bar measurement for a beer in the US is "a beer" or "a bottle" generally
well a pint is sort of half a litre. I think us humans are comfortable with generalisations. I know that's *incredibly* inexact (more like 0.55 litres) but ya know, if your idea of a good night out is 2 pints
I think that's fine, as long as the doctors are precise when measuring out 50ml of some chemical so put in to a sick person or an engineer is using exact mm when building a component etc...
yeah, cars drive in miles per hour here still, we're a right bastard nation! as with most things to do with the EU, the UK has dug its heels in and is slowest to change. There's a big old fuss a year ago when the law changed so all shops (including small market traders) had to sell things in kilos and grams instead of pounds and ounces. A few people fussed, most traders just put both measures and the whole thing seems to have blown over. I reckon people will have moved over in twenty years or so. The change over to decimal money in 1971 was the same, people fussed but got used to it.
:-)
I think we'll gradually move over to kilometres per hour, probably have a period of dual signs or something daft and then go over. It's funny how some things have changed and others haven't. Most people can informally move between both systems with enough accuracy to get by.
Cheers for cup measurement, I gave up after screwing up some recipes by guessing which cup I should use and got a measuring jug which does cups, fluid ounces and ml, hehe
First time I have heard the expression "American Units" - can any US readers clarify what you generally call this measuring system (inches, miles, pounds, etc) over there?
I've heard USians call them "English" and over here in the UK we call such a system "Imperial" - though I know there are differences - our gallon is different to yours, you use "cups" for cooking while if using imperial we'd use ounces (that one confuses me a lot, we have lots of different sized cups in the kitchen for drinking out of!).
I suppose it's kind of more honest to call the system "American Units" as its what you guys use... (USA not = all of America is another discussion) - what is the feet and inches system called generally (or legally)?
Nope, irrelevant. I live in a 1729 built house in Buckinghamshire (ironically, quite near Milton Keynes, that English attempt at a 60s new town). I used to live in East London in a 19th century redbrick terraced house. Let me tell you, no standard measurements in either. I fitted the entire kitchen in the London house and there wasn't a 90 degree angle in any of the walls, or a length in exact feet in any direction, mm just as useful as inches. Same in the current 1729 house.
Maybe reasonably modern mass produced houses (1900 - 1970, say) might have standard imperial measurements, but in the UK I'd say a lot of our housing stock is *too* old to have standardised fittings. I'd say standardised imperial measured houses are probably a blip...
Rubbish, I'm British, aged 40, I use metric for more than I use imperial, I don't think I am alone. People my age and younger are generally conversant in moving between the two systems because of our half arsed mix in the UK. I think it would be fairer to say in the UK people generally move between the two informally, but work in metric in formal situations. Skinfitz: can you give us examples of scientific or engineering companies you know that do their work in imperial? I don't think this happens, small places might take on work in imperial measurements but I think they are few and far between these days.
Me and all my mates use metres,cm,mm etc for measurement, that's what the big shops in the UK all use for their stuff. Now your corner hardware store, yes they use imperial but we know the kind of cherished special places they are and the people that run them- they are not exactly the norm. But if I am going to get some plumbing piping or shelving I get out my metric tape measure and work out the maths in cm and mm.
Incidently I drive a 60s car so I have to move between Imperial and Whitworth inches!
Well said. If you've got as far as an interview, and assuming the company isn't a bunch of weirdos playing with people's lives, then surely this says short list = pretty well good enough, we're down to the fine detail.
So if you as an employer have somebody step into the room for an interview, the last stage of the selection process, who is terribly unqualified for the post - I think it's time for *you the employer* to do some serious reflection. How did that person get as far as the interview? Time to talk with your human resources department, third party hiring agencies, the boss, or whoever shortlists applicants. It's time to improve your process for choosing folk for interview. I have to ask - how did that person get so far through your selection process?
Simple machine so good for the retired? go back to your lollipop you patronising kid! Becoming 65 doesn't mean relapse into child like state.
My dad retired a couple of years ago, signed up for a computer course (never used one before) and now he's got a digital camera and he's playing with Photoshop.
Some folk over 65 might want a simplified device but I know a heck of a lot of retired folks who have a lot more experience than the average college kid at dealing with complex devices and fine at picking up a new one.
"temperatures are more useful for most people in imperial"
:-)
... and don't even get me started on money, pffh! 4 farthings to a penny to 12 to the shilling to 20 to the pound and throw in crowns and guineas for good measure... I loved decimal money!
Nope, socially constructed, all total rubbish (with all due respect). I'm in the UK and we use a right mix up so I'd say it's just what you grow up with and get used to. I haven't the faintest idea what old people (and Americans) are going on about when they say the weather is in the 50s or the 90s or the 40s but I've got a good idea what clothes to wear if it's 5, or 15, or -1. Meanwhile I feel comfortable with miles and yet metres, grin! because I've grown up in a country which uses a right mix -folk generally talk in miles for long distances rather than km's even though we're metric, and on smaller day to day things folks my age and younger (I'm 40) have grown up being taught metric. But I can switch to imperial inches/yards if I have to, can do pounds and ounces and even remember that a US gallon is different from one of our gallons!
Never got area though, I can't look at a field and tell you how many acres OR hectares it is!!
I think it's all just what you've been taught and had ten years at school plus some at college being forced to use, completely socially constructed, neither is more convenient for estimating. My shout as someone who was taught as the change was happening in the education system so got a bit of both is that as a kid knowing everything was 10x10x10x10... was a damn sight easier to remember (and multiply) than 12x3x1760
Taking it might be fun but ten minutes later you'd realise you'd paid some dodgy Essex fisherman a huge chunk of money to leave you marooned on a stinky rusting lump of steel ten miles off the British Coast in the North Sea. Not the exotic Caribbean, but a grey old sea full of industrial waste, oil tankers and seagulls that want to poop on you and your new found hulk ^H^H^H empire . Throw in pretty poor weather and lack of basic amenities and the sinking feeling that the dodgy fisherman is going to ask double to take you back to Blighty once you've spent a miserable night huddling in the burnt out remains of the portacabin or whatever's left on the old gunnery platform. There's a reason that these platforms had a high suicide rate amongst troops stationed on them in the Second World War...