This argument holds about as much water as the "sue the automakers because cars shouldn't go that fast"
No, we just want to be able to sue software companies for glaring holes in hastily rushed out the door to meet this months balance sheet and we'll patch it later after we crush the competition products. Think products that are badly made with defects (weak ball joints that break off when you hit the first pothole, or piss in the coffee), not because they are misused (driven too fast or spilt in your lap). If Ford et al could make machines w/o ANY liability for safety & industry standards and got in a hypercompetitive winner-take-all market where it comes to a) make it safe b) make a buck, they would take option b) everytime and do anything for the sake of competition and profitability, leaving dead bodies strewn down the highway.
As for Microsoft's marketing, I am not so sure I would call it 'shrewd' as pervasive and persistant. They've outspent just about everyone else for years, with the possible exception of IBM, but that is easy when you have monopoly profits to fall back on.
I'll never forget the IBM ads on AM radio, "How you gonna do it? PS/2 it!"
Anyway, my observation on Msft mktng is they find out what negative rumors are going around about their product, and frame their ads to counteract it. I recently got a big slickie signed by Bill Gates that states, "Windows XP is much more than just another version of Windows with a new look" which confirmed it for me: Windows XP is Win2K with a new look (and bundled in PCAnywhere, RealAudio, Adaptec CD Writer and other 3rd party spoilers). If people start complaining about their notorious reliability issues (from the company that gave us the "maintenance reboot"), they start an ad campaign bellowing about "99.999% Reliability!!". If a child pointed out the emporer was naked, they'd launch another ad series gushing about how great the emporers new cloths are and what a fashion trend it is setting in Paris.
the price isn't only to cover your vehicle - it's to pay off the people who get mysterious neck pains after you tap their rear bumper and sue for $50,000 for each occupant, not to mention any *real* damage done to other people's property.
FWIW, I got the wu-ftp update patch from RedHat, had to upgrade my RH62 pam, db3 & rpm, then update wu-ftp and it all went flawlessly, no more security vulnerability ("ls ~{" now gets "Missing }" instead of disconnecting). Only took me about an hour; would be even faster with a subscription to the RH net autoupdate service.
Re gartner, if someone can't keep up with IIS patches they would be buried by Apache, etc, and might be better off with an exciting new career in the food service industry, patty inversion specialist;)
Pfft, by that criterion, neither is Msft IIS (given the 'code red' fiasco). From what I read there are no exploits (yet). But yes, I verified you can ftp to a RH Linux 6.2 (and up to all the latest according to Security Focus), type "ls ~{" and lose connection due to a sig-11 segfault at the ftp server. That doesn't stop anyone else from using anonymous ftp tho, and I don't know how to exploit it. I'm looking for a patch right now since I have a public ftp running.
Say I paid good $$$ for a Win95 license and a bug in the 'a' version deleted 3 months of hard work. Who do I sue?? Why, Microsoft, of course. Except I won't win because the boilerplate I, you and everyone else in the enterprise agreed to clearly states:
LIMITED WARRANTY
CUSTOMER REMEDIES. Microsoft's and its supplier' entire liability and your exclusive remedy shall be, at Microsoft's option, either (a) return of the price paid, or (b) repair or replacement of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT or hardware that does not meet Microsoft's Limited Warranty and which is returned to Microsoft with a copy of your receipt.
[etc., more limitations of liability, etc, then the rest shouts in ALL CAPS].
NO OTHER WARRANTIES. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, MICROSOFT AND ITS SUPPLIERS DISCLAIM ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE (i.e., whatever manure the marketing dept. is spreading these days) etc etc etc.
NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS (heheh), BUSINESS INTERRUPTIONS (it's going to take me at least a day to rebuild this database server), LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION (what do you mean last nights backup didn't execute!? I need last month's district earnings report now!!) OR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY LOSS ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR (I like this part:) INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT, EVEN IF MICROSOFT HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. etc etc etc.
And that isn't just Msft, it's pretty much industry standard boilerplate whether you shelled out ten grand for the SOFTWARE PRODUCT or got it on a free CD at a Linux expo.
It's kind of like renting an apartment with a clause in the lease that you cannot sublet rooms to others, essentially 'reselling' the space. Sometimes they don't even like other people they don't know about moving in, like you sign up just for yourself and later on invite your brother to stay for free.
then someone gets in their car and has a massive accident, sues company for supplying the alcohol. End of party. A lot of night clubs are starting to take keys away from impaired patrons because, more and more, the responsibility is being shifted to the clubs. Just think "Tobacco company is responsible for someone's smoking and lung disease" for legal precedent.
Then there's the possibility of sexual harassment suit after a few cold ones, not to mention making 'politically incorrect' jokes... It all puts a big chill on the so-called 'fun'.
guess we'll be seeing more 'shipping horror stories' here;))
Personally, I've send and received hundreds of packages via UPS in the last 3 years (my ebay feedback in 80 or so positives) w/ no problems at all except for one 60lb machine that was packed with NO padding at all on three sides, just shoved right up against the cardboard walls, and one double boxed bakelite radio that wasn't held stable (it was real fragile but allowed to bounce around inside). I even got a huge 20" 1950's TV send from Detroit to east VA that was JUST under the size/weight limit - arrived with outer box ripped (it was HEAVY) and the foam padding coming out but little damage to the set.
The company has also prototyped light-emitting fabrics based on a four-layer organic light-emitting diode that can scroll dot-matrix-style characters in the manner of the Times Square news display. It expects to advance that work to a full 400 x 500-pixel fabric-based display in two years.
Implications for the fashion industry are astounding. Something that changes Chameleon-like to resemble it's surroundings is a bit far fetched but a jacket with revolving, swirling colors and moving programmable paisly patterns will definitely be in vogue, someday. You just download the latest trend and there you are.
One fellow used to cast things in terms of products for the mass market, and products for the elite class of users. Sure, there's going to be a huge market for the 'computers grandma can use', just like 'billions & billions served' - but there's also going to be a small but vocal and powerful minority of very experienced users who just don't want a computer with the training wheels bolted on and whizzards to hold your hand thru all common tasts. In the democracy of 'market choice' it will become increasingly important to ensure that the rights of the minority users who know what they want and already know how to do it don't get trampled on.
Yes, I do it the difficult way because it's more educational and I want to know what's going on and be in control. Notice how every time your super-automatic wiz-bang box craps out *I* have to come over and fix it or figure it out for you??
Re:Does Micrsoft still license DOS?
on
MS DOS: A Eulogy
·
· Score: 1
Do they have an alternative solution that boots some minimal OS to do firmware upgrades or other needed tasks?
The utility disk that comes with new Maxtor hard disk drives boots up Caldera DOS to prep the disk, transfer all your system/data, etc. (at least it used to). You can change the autoexec.bat and get a command prompt instead of running the Maxtor stuff, but there's no useful utilities like 'format' etc.
Re:Not only does XP have the command prompt
on
MS DOS: A Eulogy
·
· Score: 1
Yeah, we just decided the Win9x/ME home systems don't have edlin by default, while the professional NT/2K/XP line does.
though I expect it's a 32-bit rewrite rather than the DOS assembler version
Well if I type, in Linux, NT4 \system32\ mounted:
[root@localhost system32]# file tlist.exe
tlist.exe: MS Windows PE 32-bit Intel 80386 console executable
Re:Not only does XP have the command prompt
on
MS DOS: A Eulogy
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
typed "edlin" and it wasn't in the install (Windows 95?).
That interesting - just did a quick check and found that Win95a, Win98SE and ME DON'T have edlin, while WinNT, 2K and XP DO have edlin. I guess they expected the dos/home line to not need it, but the professional line did need it to support old edlin scripts?
at a Msft sales, uh, 'technical presentation' here in '96. The showman said, and I quote, "Lets have a moment of silence for DOS... " altho what he was refering to was dropping support for DOS as a seperate product.
Slashdot Mirror
This argument holds about as much water as the "sue the automakers because cars shouldn't go that fast"
No, we just want to be able to sue software companies for glaring holes in hastily rushed out the door to meet this months balance sheet and we'll patch it later after we crush the competition products. Think products that are badly made with defects (weak ball joints that break off when you hit the first pothole, or piss in the coffee), not because they are misused (driven too fast or spilt in your lap). If Ford et al could make machines w/o ANY liability for safety & industry standards and got in a hypercompetitive winner-take-all market where it comes to a) make it safe b) make a buck, they would take option b) everytime and do anything for the sake of competition and profitability, leaving dead bodies strewn down the highway.
As for Microsoft's marketing, I am not so sure I would call it 'shrewd' as pervasive and persistant. They've outspent just about everyone else for years, with the possible exception of IBM, but that is easy when you have monopoly profits to fall back on.
I'll never forget the IBM ads on AM radio, "How you gonna do it? PS/2 it!"
Anyway, my observation on Msft mktng is they find out what negative rumors are going around about their product, and frame their ads to counteract it. I recently got a big slickie signed by Bill Gates that states, "Windows XP is much more than just another version of Windows with a new look" which confirmed it for me: Windows XP is Win2K with a new look (and bundled in PCAnywhere, RealAudio, Adaptec CD Writer and other 3rd party spoilers). If people start complaining about their notorious reliability issues (from the company that gave us the "maintenance reboot"), they start an ad campaign bellowing about "99.999% Reliability!!". If a child pointed out the emporer was naked, they'd launch another ad series gushing about how great the emporers new cloths are and what a fashion trend it is setting in Paris.
the price isn't only to cover your vehicle - it's to pay off the people who get mysterious neck pains after you tap their rear bumper and sue for $50,000 for each occupant, not to mention any *real* damage done to other people's property.
They're already pretty plastic poll driven acting personalities that are just a puppet 'front' for well organized special interests.
My post was tounge-in-cheek.
;)
;)
Ok
FWIW, I got the wu-ftp update patch from RedHat, had to upgrade my RH62 pam, db3 & rpm, then update wu-ftp and it all went flawlessly, no more security vulnerability ("ls ~{" now gets "Missing }" instead of disconnecting). Only took me about an hour; would be even faster with a subscription to the RH net autoupdate service.
Re gartner, if someone can't keep up with IIS patches they would be buried by Apache, etc, and might be better off with an exciting new career in the food service industry, patty inversion specialist
Pfft, by that criterion, neither is Msft IIS (given the 'code red' fiasco). From what I read there are no exploits (yet). But yes, I verified you can ftp to a RH Linux 6.2 (and up to all the latest according to Security Focus), type "ls ~{" and lose connection due to a sig-11 segfault at the ftp server. That doesn't stop anyone else from using anonymous ftp tho, and I don't know how to exploit it. I'm looking for a patch right now since I have a public ftp running.
IBM has come out with a machine that can do the work of 20 office clerks. The only problem is it takes 50 technicians to operate it.
Say I paid good $$$ for a Win95 license and a bug in the 'a' version deleted 3 months of hard work. Who do I sue?? Why, Microsoft, of course. Except I won't win because the boilerplate I, you and everyone else in the enterprise agreed to clearly states:
:) INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT, EVEN IF MICROSOFT HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. etc etc etc.
LIMITED WARRANTY
CUSTOMER REMEDIES. Microsoft's and its supplier' entire liability and your exclusive remedy shall be, at Microsoft's option, either (a) return of the price paid, or (b) repair or replacement of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT or hardware that does not meet Microsoft's Limited Warranty and which is returned to Microsoft with a copy of your receipt.
[etc., more limitations of liability, etc, then the rest shouts in ALL CAPS].
NO OTHER WARRANTIES. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, MICROSOFT AND ITS SUPPLIERS DISCLAIM ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE (i.e., whatever manure the marketing dept. is spreading these days) etc etc etc.
NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS (heheh), BUSINESS INTERRUPTIONS (it's going to take me at least a day to rebuild this database server), LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION (what do you mean last nights backup didn't execute!? I need last month's district earnings report now!!) OR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY LOSS ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR (I like this part
And that isn't just Msft, it's pretty much industry standard boilerplate whether you shelled out ten grand for the SOFTWARE PRODUCT or got it on a free CD at a Linux expo.
It's kind of like renting an apartment with a clause in the lease that you cannot sublet rooms to others, essentially 'reselling' the space. Sometimes they don't even like other people they don't know about moving in, like you sign up just for yourself and later on invite your brother to stay for free.
So will most consumer products soon start bearing the label: "Made in Space" ?
BBQ on a sunny weekend, chugging a few cold ones
then someone gets in their car and has a massive accident, sues company for supplying the alcohol. End of party. A lot of night clubs are starting to take keys away from impaired patrons because, more and more, the responsibility is being shifted to the clubs. Just think "Tobacco company is responsible for someone's smoking and lung disease" for legal precedent.
Then there's the possibility of sexual harassment suit after a few cold ones, not to mention making 'politically incorrect' jokes... It all puts a big chill on the so-called 'fun'.
Didn't know it was Msftie Paul Allen's venture, untill I read this.
I've already identified, singled out and deleted code known to be potentially dangerous and installed Linux instead.
guess we'll be seeing more 'shipping horror stories' here ;))
Personally, I've send and received hundreds of packages via UPS in the last 3 years (my ebay feedback in 80 or so positives) w/ no problems at all except for one 60lb machine that was packed with NO padding at all on three sides, just shoved right up against the cardboard walls, and one double boxed bakelite radio that wasn't held stable (it was real fragile but allowed to bounce around inside). I even got a huge 20" 1950's TV send from Detroit to east VA that was JUST under the size/weight limit - arrived with outer box ripped (it was HEAVY) and the foam padding coming out but little damage to the set.
If automobile speed had increased similarly over the same period, you could now drive from San Francisco to New York in about 13 seconds."
but if you were running Winblows it would have crashed in Utah...
here is my working Simon test/prototype board - I'd love to make a 'finished' one someday (given time, $$$, and a better, faster stepping relay).
about the 4004 development, right here - they were Intel's customer at the time.
that if the present trend continues they'll have to change their name to MicrosoftWorld.
The company has also prototyped light-emitting fabrics based on a four-layer organic light-emitting diode that can scroll dot-matrix-style characters in the manner of the Times Square news display. It expects to advance that work to a full 400 x 500-pixel fabric-based display in two years.
Implications for the fashion industry are astounding. Something that changes Chameleon-like to resemble it's surroundings is a bit far fetched but a jacket with revolving, swirling colors and moving programmable paisly patterns will definitely be in vogue, someday. You just download the latest trend and there you are.
One fellow used to cast things in terms of products for the mass market, and products for the elite class of users. Sure, there's going to be a huge market for the 'computers grandma can use', just like 'billions & billions served' - but there's also going to be a small but vocal and powerful minority of very experienced users who just don't want a computer with the training wheels bolted on and whizzards to hold your hand thru all common tasts. In the democracy of 'market choice' it will become increasingly important to ensure that the rights of the minority users who know what they want and already know how to do it don't get trampled on.
Yes, I do it the difficult way because it's more educational and I want to know what's going on and be in control. Notice how every time your super-automatic wiz-bang box craps out *I* have to come over and fix it or figure it out for you??
think this shows the power of open source software.
While there's still big egos involved, there's probably less of the corporate mindset politics, like chosing a persons code because you owe them a favor, play golf together, wear the same ties, or their mom is on the same United Way committe with a potential customer's chairman, other sucking up and brown-nosing issues.
Do they have an alternative solution that boots some minimal OS to do firmware upgrades or other needed tasks?
The utility disk that comes with new Maxtor hard disk drives boots up Caldera DOS to prep the disk, transfer all your system/data, etc. (at least it used to). You can change the autoexec.bat and get a command prompt instead of running the Maxtor stuff, but there's no useful utilities like 'format' etc.
Yeah, we just decided the Win9x/ME home systems don't have edlin by default, while the professional NT/2K/XP line does.
;)
though I expect it's a 32-bit rewrite rather than the DOS assembler version
Well if I type, in Linux, NT4 \system32\ mounted:
[root@localhost system32]# file tlist.exe
tlist.exe: MS Windows PE 32-bit Intel 80386 console executable
and
[root@localhost system32]# file edlin.exe
edlin.exe: MS-DOS executable (EXE)
Must have had better things to do
typed "edlin" and it wasn't in the install (Windows 95?).
That interesting - just did a quick check and found that Win95a, Win98SE and ME DON'T have edlin, while WinNT, 2K and XP DO have edlin. I guess they expected the dos/home line to not need it, but the professional line did need it to support old edlin scripts?
at a Msft sales, uh, 'technical presentation' here in '96. The showman said, and I quote, "Lets have a moment of silence for DOS... " altho what he was refering to was dropping support for DOS as a seperate product.