Slashdot Mirror
How Not To Ship Computers
jutus writes: "I recently relocated for work from Canada to Florida, and on a suggestion, shipped my equipment (well-packed), with UPS Ground. I've posted some images of the destruction my shipment was subjected to by UPS. UPS Ground does not insure international shipments, so basically I'm up shit creek, no paddle. They have been giving me the textbook run-around for the past week. UPS Canada blames UPS in the U.S., and you can imagine who UPS down here in the States blames. As of yet, UPS has not even attempted to negotiate any compensation for my loss due to their severe negligence ... For Gods sake, use FedEX." My luck has gone the other direction -- I've mostly had good luck with UPS and some misdeliveries with FedEx. Would be nice to hear from any UPS employees reading this about what could have led to the damage jutus illustrates.
is quick enough ?
If you can read you would notice:
"UPS Ground does not insure international shipments"
To translate, that mean he couldn't insure it with UPS.
At the next eco-hypocrisy-meeting, count the private jets used to get to the meeting. Should be interesting to see that
UPS - United Peril Service
I guess we could all learn from this poor soul's experience... If you couldn't get insurance, then i'd at least hound UPS until the people responsible for this destruction are fired.
UPS = united package smashers. Timothy may get missdelivered packages with FedEx but at least they don't beat the tar out of the packages as often as UPS does.
I'd advise people buying monitors to have them shipped overnight or 2 day no matter who ships it. They're easier on the packages than ground services are and there's less time for them to beat on them.
I dont even see how some of tat damage could be accidental. It looks like they took a sledgehammer to the boxes!
Insurance covers things like "damn, we accidentally dropped it and it cracked"
This type of damage is someone got fired and took it out on the nearest package!
I've always found it a bit "funny" that you have to pay an extra fee to make sure they don't break the items you're shipping.
You probably shouldn't have requested delivery by "International Trebuchet"
Now you know.
"The files are in the computer"
"in the computer??"
You made a couple of mistakes...
Sorry for your loss, but, yes you are up shit creek!
Not to be a jerk...but...
shipping something as valuable and as fragile as computer equipment w/o insurance is nuts! Surely some company will insure international shipments.
Does your house or renters insurance have any provision to cover moving related problems.
I believe that if they are obviously negligent (as it appears they are, based on the condition of the box) then you have a potential lawsuit. No matter what their business waivers say, if they are clearly at fault then you have a case.
:)
What did you use to pad it though? Wrapping it in a thick blanket might give enough padding that wouldn't shift around.
The other option is to use a hardened case (like 99% of PC's) rather than a cutesy mac plastic one with weak feet
I sold a server on Ebay and had it packaged at a "Mailboxes Etc." in Manhattan and shipped UPS to Pennsylvania. The person who got it says it looked like it had been dropped from at least four feet, enough to crack the entire (metal) case. I had bought insurance, and UPS sent someone over to the guy's house to examine it. They have to make sure it was packed to spec or they blame the sender (Mailboxes Etc. in this case).
Despite their basically admitting it was damaged during shipment and that it was packed correctly, this was over two months ago and I'm still waiting for something to happen. They don't give me a point of contact so I have to start from scratch every time I call. Total mess.
At least that computer didn't have a methane powered fuel cell power source in it. Then your computer would be be broken AND smelly.
"People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
I've been shipping things with UPS for the past few years, and only in the last 6 months have started noticing a large amount of damage to my stuff and to my friend's stuff. 3 of my friends had to send stuff back due to UPS damage during shipping.
Has anyone else noticed an increase in damage lately, or is it just me?
Blame Canada! Blame Canada!
I wonder how long it will be before the U.S. invades that wasteland up north?
i don't know how most feel about this, but i wouldn't find getting all my stuff destroyed funny, and i know there is a long tradition of laughing at other people's misfortune, but come on, thats a horror story.
How the heck can they abuse a computer like that? I mean.. its not even negligence it must be intentional destruction.. well close to it anyways. Guess i should order kevlar-reinforced moving boxes if I ever move farther away.
So whos fault is it then idiot? If they dont insure it, then whats he crying about? Who puts tubberwere in a monitor case anyhow?
Dumbass jmccay
The only safe way is to move it yourself from Canada to the US! There is no way to inusre that who ever handles your stuff will even be able to speak English--or will even care if they do. Just rent a UHaul and take it yourself next time.
At the next eco-hypocrisy-meeting, count the private jets used to get to the meeting. Should be interesting to see that
Then he should have sent the package with a company that would insure an international shipment.
i've have stuff shipped via ups before: namely a dell monitor. During the truck ride, another box fell on it and punched a hole through the monitor box on the screen side. Needless to say, they didn't even apoligize for it. Anyone know what exactly UPS is liable for?
-tek
techienews.net
When it's time to move, I've found that it's simply easier to just buy a new computer altogether (especially if it's a work-related machine). All the files can be backed up onto some sort of media (I like Jaz disks, but those aren't so popular these days) and those can be transported easily for quick restoration of the new system.
Use some of the moving bonus to purchase a new machine and just dump the old one.
Having worked at the UPS in Victoria, BC, let me just say that you do not want to ship computers either into or out of Victoria BC via UPS.
My last move I said "fuck it" and shipped it all regular mail.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Why this falls under the 'Humor' icon, I can't figure out.
:( icon for such things.
You need a
A video of this guy giving the local UPS delivery person a DDT would have been funny, but not a destroyed computer.
"Study your math, kids. Key to the universe." -The Archangel Gabriel
so much for you slashdot types being helpful, friendly geeks.
UPS ground?!?!?! What were you thinking?
I once told a district manager that they should consider changing the phone number from 1-800-PICK-UPS to 1-800-FUCK-UPS after they had screwed up yet again. Now a class operation like FedEx must be a totally different story...
I am not a number! I am a man! And don't you
Get insurance! Moron...
But try writing glass on the packages. We were told that they don't send them down the conveyors... but that could also just be a targetting thing
--
Some weasel took the cork out of my lunch.
How long does the claim process take?
.. Darn misleading FAQs anyways ..
Once the claim paperwork is received by UPS, a check is typically issued and mailed to the shipper of record within five business days.
link
I assume its been more than five days?
I got an LCD from a company in Florida.
It looked like someone had used the box for a football. Thankgod the LCD wasn't broken.
Next time use Fedex. And, after some high up UPS employee sees this on slashdot, I'm sure you'll get your money.
Jutus suggests that you should ship in wood crates rather than cardboard - but it looks like his boxes were dropped from a substantial height.
Does anyone know if wooden crates would work better? It seems to me that the computers inside would be just as hurt - ie, the damage to the contents is unrelated to whether the box survives.
(Admittedly, he also lost some stuff which fell out when the box was destroyed. So wood does some good...)
UPS is pretty notorious for breaking monitors and other fragile stuff around here. Company policy has been to use FedEx exclusively for anything breakable for a couple of years now. Even when you have insured with UPS, they don't seem to make it very simple to collect.
...Dodgey Mac's. They're just not built to last.
That looks all to familar Two friends of mine have gotten computers/moniters shipped to them and the result from UPS was about the same. Holes in the boxes/moniters, as well as dents in the power supply from a resistor on a B&W G3. Other than that I have not had a problem shipping network equipment with UPS. One thing to remember is to only pack one thing in a box. One computer one box don't try to save on shipping. When possible INSURE INSURE INSURE, and make sure to insure for about $300 more than it is worth.
heh..and you thought linux zealots were bad? You ever hear of the Anti-Mac guys that have ties to UPS? I guess you didnt hear about them.
Jesus fucking Christ!
Ehh, it's just a Macintosh. No great loss.
Well, not to defend UPS, but i thought i'd share my own experiences.
I shipped a number of packages via UPS ground when moving from TX to CA, among them was a computer and a few boxes full of books.
For the computer, I actually had the original box that the computer case came in, along with styrofoam padding on top and at the bottom with a sturdy cardboard box. I also made sure that all the screws were tight, all the wires were bundled up inside. Box arrived slightly banged up, but no major damage. The computer booted up on the first try with no errors. I had actually thought that some connections would have been shaken loose during transport.
However, the box full of books arrived in pieces. In fact, when the UPS man came to deliver the box, it fell apart before he made it to the door. It was the same kind of cardboard that the computer box was made of, but was significantly heavier... I didn't care much about the books since they were just textbooks.
Moral of the story? Well... use the original box if you can, don't make things too heavy or the UPS people will most likely kick the heavier boxes around, and insure things that are expensive!
If you were not stupid you'd realize he should have shipped with a carrier that DOES insure internationally, that being the point the original poster was trying to make.
Its not my job to protect the stupid from themselves. Thats the governments job.
The Brown Box of Destruction
I personally would never trust my computer, etc to an external shipping company. It'd get packed with me in my car.
But anyway, if UPS didn't have insurance, he shouldn't have used them.
Also, don't UPS et-al usually allow insurance based on weight? Although all his computer stuff probably would have weighed a lot, sometimes smaller, yet still expensive stuff can't be insured for more then like $25 or whatever, which is ridiculous.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
According to the UPS web site, international shipments are automatically insured for $100, and if you want more, you have to declare the shipment's value and pay an additional premium. This matches my experience shipping within the US (I recently shipped a PC to a friend and of course I bought the additional insurance).
So when you say that UPS doesn't insure, what you mean is that you neglected to ask for or buy insurance. Did you assume that you shipment was insured, or did you just forget to ask?
I'm sorry that your PC got busted up, dude, but face it: you screwed up.
--Jim
I recently bought an SGI Indy off of eBay, and the seller shipped it US Postal Service Priority Shipping. It was *cheap* and arrived in a mere 2 days!! I highly suggest USPS Priority Shipping if the product is packed well with packing peanuts and such. They really have a good service.
---------
Fuck you, motherfucker. Fuck yous to: Rob "Taco-Snotter" Malda, Homos, Kowboi Kneel, and RMS.
Sorry buddy. I inspected your images and your packing was not sufficient. Is that how Apple shipped you your machine? I doubt it. You also used UPS ground. Do you realize that ground means that it travels on the road. Winnipeg to Florida is an incredible distance. If you are shipping a computer you must ship it via air. You decided to be as cheap as possible, took the risk of no insurance, and now are whining about it.
Trying to receive a package.
They deliver. I'm not home. I'm working. Surprizing eh?
Refuse to leave it at the doorstep.
I call, tell them to change the address.
They say "No, it's too late, they will deliver it to your home tomorrow"
I come home to receive it.
Nobody attempts to deliver. "Oh, where is my package"
"You changed the delivery address"
"You said I couldn't do that until Monday"
"I don't know what happened. But if you come here you can pick it up."
(drives 30 mins)
"I would like my package"
(wait one hour)
"We don't know where it went."
"You told me it was here."
"Well I don't know where it is."
"Then find out."
(wait half-hour more)
"We can't find your package."
"Why not?"
"Well it's locked up to be shipped to Hartford"
"HARTFORD?"
"Yes. You'll receive it next week."
(drive half-hour home).
Next-day delivery taking a full week.
UPS should burn.
Step one in using shipping companies: don't buy extra insurance for expensive shit.
Dude, if it was so important, how come you didn't spend $5 or even $50 for insurance on the shit?
Not sure how it works in Canada, but you might say in the US that giving the package gave them a bailment. They have to take care of your shit. Now, it would be expected that you might have some dings on your boxen, and some other problems. But showing the condition of your stuff should prove more than exceptional incompetance. So, even if they denied the bailment, you could show that the damage was so agregious that it should have been forseeable.
At this point, I think the real question is: what is the condition of the drives? This might be your only recourse at this point.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
we shipped our 19" tv via ups about two years ago, the fuckers drove a god damned forklife through it.
First they tried to say I packed it incorrectly, until I explained that one of their representatives did it.
Then they tried to say that since I built the computer myself, they couldn't reimburse me because they couldn't tell how much it cost, and that it might have been that I put it together wrong that broke it.
I eventually got back ~66% of what was broken. I hate UPS with a passion. This was right before the strike, and I suspected at the time that it was broken by disgrunted employees wanting to punish the company by making them pay insurance claims on something clearly marked "fragile" and "electonic equipment", but evidently its just poor employees.
As an FYI, the Mailboxes, etc where I got it packed was pretty annoyed with UPS and well, and helped me w/ the claims process.
First of all, the mistake you made was in marking the object "fragile." That just begs the box to be obliterated in various sundry ways.
And yes, the only time I've had anything destroyed was via UPS. It seems they put my box (insured, thank god) underneith a very powerful magnet. The monitor took the brunt of the damage, and when turned on (I ignored the cracked case,) showed nice and distorted screen and colors. I was just glad it was still viewable. Took about a week for the UPS insurance claims adjuster to check it, declare it their fault, and have it fixed.
Still though... the box was mashed beyond belief, and the fact that my monitor was horribly magnetized did not make me feel better.
Read: Rabbit Rue - Free serial nove
I thought on packages going ground they stated that they must be packed to withstand multiple 10 foot drops. I'm almost sure that's the policy.
. ht ml
I don't see anything about it on their terms page though:
http://www.ups.com/using/services/details/terms
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
I've had decent luck sending things in the origional packaging (So they can't gripe about the packaging) and sending it the first level above UPS ground.
And you have to watch your insurance carefully. Often times, they insure everything BUT electronics.
Gentoo Sucks
..
Its obvious, you need to sue.
Talk to a lawyer, sue both UPS Canada, and ups USA.
this is, at the very least, negligence. waiver or no, companies are always liable for negligence.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Why did you ship several thousand dollars of delicte equipment uninsured? That's kinda asking for it isn't it?
If they won't insure the shipment you should probably assume that there is a reason for that.
You knowingly sent it without insurance, correct?. Was fed ex too expensive? Airborne Express? I guess I'm just wondering if you are paying the price for the cheap way out?
there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots
When I moved off to grad school, I had my books (three boxes worth) shipped via US Postal Service
media mail from Texas to Massachusetts. Short story: they beat the crap out of my books. The three cardboxes, originally brand new U-Haul moving boxes, were completely destroyed. Two of the three were ripped open at the corners exactly like your boxes. Needless to say, the books inside were mangled.
Not sure if it's related, but the next couple of weeks afterward, which happened to be after Sept. 11, every package I received was ripped open. One package, which was a bubble wrap envelope marked "Fragile", had been cleanly sliced open with a knife. (This is all USPS here.) I wonder if the post office was inspecting packages, or it was just some thug package handler looking for goodies.
I suggest using an express courier. Pay the extra money -- it's worth it if you value what you're shipping.
Back in 1995, I UPS ground shipped my computer and stereo from Illinois to Colorado. I shipped everything in their original shipping packaging. This doesn't seem to have helped because both arrived completely useless. UPS cracked the motherboard and the laser in my CD player was knocked completely out of alignment. I had insurance but I had to hound UPS for weeks until I found a director's phone number and started calling him every day until I had a check in my mailbox.
It was over a month until they finally had everything taken care of.
My advice: Takes the drives out of any boxes that you're shipping. At least your data won't get destroyed when they ruin your electronics.
You packed it in a reused uhaul box. Never reuse boxes. The box was probably dammaged before you even sent it. Also, boxes must be filled with packing material or they will collapse when stacked. It looks like you just had your computer bouncing around inside the box.
I saw your pictures and I must say that's a real bang up job. However, you should note that it's rather foolish to ship a tower in the size box you shipped it in.
If you absolutly need to ship PC parts, disassemble them and ship them in containers with lots of foam, packing "popcorn", etc. Even empty ATX cases arrive in boxes two and three times their actual size.
I'm not defending UPS nor am I saying they are at fault. The processes involved in sorting boxes often include large belts and ramps, and yes, two and three feet drops. The belts that load boxes onto FedEx planes often have five foot drops at the top. And this is FedEx.
This is why you need insurance, and you need to be wise about packaging your goods. I sure hope you didn't pack all the things pictured in a 4 cu foot box you showed that was beat to death (probably from stuff rolling around inside of it).
I would go the route of getting moeny from UPS if you insured it. Other than that you're screwed.
"I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
Yea, he should have. But he didnt and now he is crying about it to the world. Whos fault is it? UPS for disclosing the non-insurance issue? or him for not listening and being a tightass?
Subject says it all.
moral of the story: pay the extra money and have it packed right, and insure it.
yes i still use the indy.
Airborne Express is cheaper than FedEx for any sort of overnight or 2-day (at least from what I've found), and I've never had service problems with them.
UPS is on-again, off-again. I've had widely variant results.
If you're going to ship ANY sort of electronic equipment, computers included, your best bet is to get it professionally packaged with Foam-in-Place (FIP) packaging. What this process does is create custom-molded polyurethane foam blocks all around your equipment.
The stuff is incredibly tough if it's done right. Impacts to the outside of the box are completely absorbed by the foam, and punctures or penetrations go into the foam barrier without ever getting near the equipment packed inside.
Yes, FiP is pricier than standard stuff, and it's harder to find a packing place that will do it (the equipment is fairly expensive), but it's just about the best protection you can get outside of a custom-built enviro-sealed wood crate.
Sorry to hear about your hardware. Good luck getting UPS to cough up what it sounds like they owe you.
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
Actually, I myself have just had an older model (new in box) big Apple ColorSync monitor shipped to me via UPS and they got that one as well. Major damage to the monitor case was done in shipping, but it appears to work fine. At any rate, I contacted them and it took a couple of weeks but they tell me they are sending me a check. (The monitor was insured). What I don't get is that if a box is dropped off at your address with the outer shipping container beat to hell, why is there no notice left with the package that damage had occurred in shipping? That would be the honest thing to do.
In general, I too use FedEx, but chose UPS this time for who knows what reasons. I guess I will be going back to Fed Ex.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
and the computer I ordered from Gateway didn't post because it lacked a video card, memory and that Pentium 4 processor. In addition, the print screen key no longer works on your keyboard.
Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
I've had friends work for UPS. What it boils down to is that the rank & file is generally treated pretty poorly by management, and there's little accountability vis-a-vis package damage. So employees will take out their frustrations on the boxes. I tend to use FedEx. Their relationships with employees tend to be better, and their package tracking is better too.
And no matter what, don't ship it unless you can insure it. Neither UPS nor Fedex, nor anyone else for that matter, will improve their handling unless it affects their bottom line. Your stuff is destroyed, but since it's not insured, they don't care. If the company won't let you insure it, find someone else.
'ARRGH! Pirate Designers of the Internet, we be!'
Print FRAGILE on a box that you give to UPS or anyone else. I know several ***holes who work for one of these companies; "fragile" is their cue to kick the hell out of the package.
Always pronounce it "OOOPS!"
UPS put my business out of business by their inept delivery service.
ttyl
Farrell
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
Canadians have learned the hard way never to have anything shipped into Canada by UPS. In addition to this poor souls experience with them wrecking his equipment, they also extort money from the RECEIVER of any goods, calling them 'customs clearing' fees or some such nonsense...even for items that would be duty free shipped any other way. For small ticket items ( $50), these 'fees' may exceed the value of the items received. Just say no to UPS!!!
Well. I guess that'll teach YOU to use a Mac.
--Ryv
I had an expensive turntable sent to me from Canada via UPS and the same thing happened. It was packed reasonably well, but that ain't good enough when these guys get a hold of it. The box was destroyed and WATER LOGGED! Everything inside was cracked, broken, you name it. When I tried to claim, I was told to go scratch. Like the man says, Go FedEX. It's worth the extra money.
Not surprising at all. I have several clients in the mail order business (they ship between 20-100 pkgs per day) and they all say the same thing- FedEx isn't perfect, but they are *far* better than UPS. Last spring I ordered four wheels/tires from TireRack.com. UPS delivered three. That's right, a person at UPS saw four of the same thing coming through and decided that only three really needed to get there. That was the last time I used UPS. YMMV, but I doubt it. So pack your gear well, insure it(!) appropriately and don't use UPS. -LM
I've seen dings in boxes from UPS and FedEx before, but WOW, I'm surprised UPS was able to deliver your stuff even in the state it's in. Even the USPS puts damaged stuff in envelopes or other packaging material before delivery. The negligence on UPS' behalf extends beyond damaging your goods. That just plain sucks.
No more UPS for me...
Your packages must have passed through the Redmond shipping facility ...
This reminds me of Ace Ventura. In the beginning, he is delivering a box & throwing it around. I think he even kicks it around.
Is it me, or did they skip the whole truck/loading dock/delivery part of things and just drop the stuff out of the aircraft at 30,000 feet?
--
I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy
dude, this rocks. Funny thing is, I was going to post a followup and talk about UPS losing my laptop INSIDE their distribution facility. No, not in transit. The package got into the building but never left. 3 weeks later, no one at UPS could tell me where my laptop went. They knew from the scan data that it was in the building, but no one could find it. Lesson learned, ship USPS or FedEx.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
A co-worker in NYC shipped a Compaq DLT library via FedEx and only insured it for $2500. Actual replacement cost? over 6K. FedEx DESTROYED the unit. 6 weeks later, I'm STILL waiting for FedEx to come inspect the damage to get the ball rolling on the insurance check. FedEx sucks ass.
They make shipping tags that break under certan g-forces. Might be fun to paste these on there to see what happens. Ive often heard that you should pack stuff as if it was going off of a 2 story drop, as there are several bumps like this in their shipping areas.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Born Slippy by UNderworld - 12" vinyl, they shipped it to me using UPS in a Padded envelope with a Big sticker saying 'Do Not Fold'
Vinyl may be fragil but it must've taken a fair amount of force to Produce the neatly folded package I recived, I was amazed at how symmetric the fold was as well.
Needless to say amazon have used Boxes ever since.
...that he couldnt insure due to international shipping?!?!?!
I saw your images (faster than a speeding /. effect, whoo). I don't mean to sound cruel, but that wasn't "well-packed".
Every so often I get Sun hardware shipped to me. I have learned a few things:
Basically, if you aren't use molded solid foam, you're in trouble. At minimum you should use foam blocks for the sides of the box, and then fill the gaps inside with stuffed eggshell foam (e.g., you don't have custom-molded foam, e.g., you threw out the foam pieces that the computer/case was originally shipped in).
The other day I got a hardware board about the size of my hand. It was shipped in a box the size of my torso. The outside of the box had gone through a war zone, but thanks to all that foam, the card was pristine.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
My old company shipped a large IBM server from NYC to Conn. via FedEx. By the time it arrived to its destination it was completly destroyed... I cant fathom any "accident" that could have led to this, short of a plane crash. It was shipped in the original packaging etc..etc... FedEx did accept responsability for it but it took upwards of 6 months to see any money for it. I honestly dont think it matters what carrier you use since they all use cheap labor to get the job done. Ever wonder why you have to pay for shipping AND handling? From now on I would prefer if they would just ship and DO NOT handle!!!
I shipped a trunk via UPS a couple of years ago, full of assorted stuff, including a (very well padded) TV. When it arrived at the other end, there was a hole nearly large enough for me to put my hand through in the back of the trunk. This is quite a sturdy wooden trunk we're talking about here. They must have rammed it with a forklift or something. The TV inside, was, of course broken. They paid for the TV, but they insisted they wouldn't pay for the trunk itself, because the insurance didn't cover the "shipping vessel".
I also know of at least two cases of them breaking computers in transit. In one case, they banged a machine around so much that the heatsink detached and bounced around the case, knocking stuff off the logicboard.
A friend of mine ordered a computer that was delivered via UPS. They showed up when he wasn't home, and left the box sitting outside his house. It ended up getting rained on.
This space unintentionally left unblank.
I shipped some stuff, as part of moving, to myself using "BoxBrothers". You pack your stuff; they come to pick it up; take it to their site; shrink-wrap and palletize it all; then ship using common carrier. When I received the stuff (Viking Freight), the pallet was fine. When unpacked, one of two computers was completely destroyed. The box containing the trashed computer, original packing from when I received the machine, had two corners "scrunched a bit". Inside the styrofoam was badly mangled. The g-force of the impact was enough to rip the drive cage out of the frame and enough to put the case out of alignment enough so the doors barely closed. I was able to salvage the 3c905 and a soundblaster live. Everything else was trash.
Interestingly, another computer, same shipment, survived just fine.
My girlfriend is a polymer chemist and receives chemicals from manufacturers via UPS all the time. Usually they arrive in their not-too-damaged containers. However, one time she ordered some liquid of some sort, which was shipped in a bottle, packed inside a box filled with styrofoam peanuts. What she got on the other end was a bucket that contained the broken pieces of the bottle, with the mailing labels from the original box cut off and taped onto the outside of the bucket. Somehow in transition the box and packing material had disappeared and the bottle shattered, emptying its contents on some hapless UPS worker that'll eventually regret it. My girlfriend said it wasn't an "instantly" dangerous chemical -- not caustic or poisonous. But it was something that was a pretty good carcinogin. So she took it upon herself to call UPS to warn them of the cancer-causing liquid and that they should clean up any residue, avoid skin contact, etc. The phone monkey on the other end pulled an attitude about them not being responsible for breaking her bottle and this and that. So she just hung up and figured that they deserved whatever cancer they got.
Personally, after the UPS strike a few years ago, I've avoided them like the plague.
I've shipped expensive Sun gear (is there any other kind?) via UPS four times from Canada to the US. 2 of the shipments never showed up, period. Thankfully, they *were* insured (this was several years ago, but they insured internationally back then at least; I'd be surprised if they don't now). And the insurance was paid.
:-)
At least the UPS employees that stole the stuff had tastes for commercial grade gear
A pretty bad arrival rate. I certainly wouldn't recommend them. Always had great luck with FedEx.
-me
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
Jesus Christ have you even seen how they throw the packages around in those trucks? You've got to be kidding me. This can't be a serious question.
Last year we shipping a server from Vancouver, BC to NYC for installation in our branch office in NYC. Long story short - it was late and totalled much like your stuff. It looked like the box was left out in the rain, then used like a beachball in the back of some warehouse. We had insurance, but still had to fight with them for the $2000 in damage. They ended up giving us shipping credits. I had a similar problem with Air Canada cargo, but they paid up fast.
The morale of the story is to find a shipper who does international insurance, AND, pack the equiment in crates. I think there are even some professional packers - I beleive many of the shippers will do this for an extra charge.
--------- Matt
I was waiting for a flight at DC National airport watching the planes go in and out from the observation area. A 747 with "UPS" on the side pulled in nearby, and the cargo bay door (which was about 15 feet off the ground) opened. Before long, large boxes came flying out of the cargo bay, falling at least 10-15 feet down to the shuttle. Some of them bounced, some didn't. They unloaded the whole cargo this way as I watched.
My last move I said "fuck it" and shipped it all regular mail.
I sent a computer (system unit only) across the country using the postal service, in original packing, and it arrived just fine -- cost around $15 from Ontario to Alberta. The only problem (according to the recipient) was that there was nobody home on delivery, so the posties left it on the front porch, fully exposed to the elements, wildlife, and unsavoury characters.
Now, I don't think I'd consign a brand new machine to the postal service, but it worked well for me ...
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
As an electrical contractor who has spent most of the past four years working at both UPS & FedEx Ground (formally RPS), I would not ship anything UPS. The former RPS was not much better, but since FedEx bought them they have improved dramatically. They would be my first choice, second would USPS. I have had many large packages mangled by UPS, none have arrived undamaged. The difference is in the attitude of the package handlers caused by the working environment.
I hate UPS, plain and simple. I've shipped tons of products across the border and the few times I was forced to use UPS coincide with the few times I have had problems.
UPS likes to send me bills months after I have recieved a package to the effct of "We're sorry, we meant to charge you more. Please remit $40 to us our we will make your life hell."
It is now at the point that I will no longer order from a company that restricts me to using UPS for shipping. USPS works well for me, FedEx is gold, but UPS will never receive any business from me again.
I done extensive personal shipping with UPS because of relocating to different parts of the US these last few years. As far as computer equipment, I've had a hard drive not work after shipping (though no other noticable to that system) and a case that acquired a significant dent (easily repaired with a hammer). Plastic containers and few other incidentals have been damaged over the years, but nothing as bad as what happened to him.
My biggest complaint with UPS is that they seem to change their packing requirements every 3 months. More than once I've prepared things for shipping using recommended guidelines from a previous visit and found them no longer acceptable. After writing their corporate office to complain that requirements were inconsistant and not well publicized, they were actually quite friendly about it. Of course, I wasn't complaining about damages at the time.
The Canadians might find this amusing: UPS Canada probably sent the package through Quebec, and some random Quebecois couldn't find where the French label for Fragile was twice as big as it is in English, and assumed that it wasn't really fragile.
Help us build a better map!
Speaking as someone who has had to move my ass back and forth across the continent more times than I care to count in the past 4 years, I've tried a number of methods of shipping my machines...(UPS, FedEx, Purolator, Greyhound )
So far, the best way that I've found is to take it with you on the plane as luggage. If you don't have the original case boxes, your carrier should have a range of boxes in various sizes which you can obtain at low, or no cost. (Air Canada provided me with two for free)
Once packed securely (Lacking styrofoam, I simply surround my cases with books), take them with you to the airport. Check them in as extra luggage, marked 'Fragile'. They'll cost you approx. $25CDN each. depending on your carrier...check their policies before you head to the airport!
Ususally, they'll ask you to fill out a form describing your computer(s), and it's value. IIRC, they're only insured up to $1000 each, but you can purchase additional insurance at extra cost.
Once you get to your destination, you'll find your 'puters safe and sound at the customer service desk. No fuss, no muss. Of course, carrier policies may be different in the US, post-9/11, but if the option is available to you, I would most certainly recommend it!
I just want to take over the world...Why does that automatically make me EVIL?
Just go to small claims court. Most states let you sue in small claims court for things under about $5000. It costs about $40 bucks to file and you DON'T need a lawyer. You just find the regestered agent of UPS in your state (just do a net search) and fill out the form in the courthouse. UPS broke a computer that I shipped, I did have insurance but they refused to pay.
When the court date came, UPS didn't even show up so I won by default. Not having insurance hurts your case, but if you go to small claims you pay $40 and either win or it least have chance to piss off UPS.
http://www.windmeadow.com/
UPS = United Penis Suckers
because he knows he can find a geek to give him money for it (out of sympathy, or for parts, or whatever). I think it is tech news worthy though, since UPS does damage a lot of PCs in transit.
I know the grief. I was able to finance the purchase of my laptop because I shipped my desktop (P200MMX back then) and put $2000.00 insurance on it. When my box arrived the hard drives tumbled out of my case and I was like "Oh, my God..."
My housemate recently shipped a downhilling mountain bike from Wyoming, with insurance on it. When the bike arrived they had bashed in what everyone thought were bomb-proof front shocks and bent the rotors on the disc brakes. The typical insurance run-around that they use in *both* cases here are:
- "Oh, it's not our fault, you packaged it incorrectly".
- "Oh, the item was damaged before we shipped it"
- "We'll conduct our own evaluations and keep you informed"
So, this is what you should do, and in my experience works quite well:
* Keep all receipts of the packaging.
* Have it shipped from an authorized shipping outlet, *and* have them sign a letter saying that they packaged it.
* Photo document the packaging if possible.
And when they give you shit about it being not packaged properly, show them but do not hand over the documentation. And if they still give you crap, this is what my housemate did:
* Have a lawyer, lawyer friend, etc, write a letter to UPS, threatening to supeona the records that they have on your package, and the insurance claim paperwork and the inspection results.
Boy did they pay up quick after that. They weren't going to even take a second look at his bike, the lawyer did his thing, and now he's at least getting his disc rotors replaced.
- SK
You're just upset because you can't read very well.
An uncle of mine, was a floor manager at Northern Electric (Now Nortel) they would ship telecom gear in big crates overseas. it always seemed to arrive at its destination broken. This ofcourse was a problem.
So they call in the enginers to study the problem. They decide to get a crate, ship an acceleromiter down to a field office somewhere, and have them ship it right back, to find out the forces a crate in shipping undergoes.
so they ship the crate down, and down sends it back, the enginers pry it open, and discover much to thier dismay, that the acceleromiter has not survived the journey.
This is just more reason to live a life of less consumption. Why would anyone trust things they care about to shipping companies? Ship small things and your fine. Ship big things and you are asking for trouble. But then again I'm just a backwards Canadian.
"Survival of the fittest Max, and we've got the fucking gun!" - Pi
UPS always says " the package was not packed properly " no matter what happens. I was working for a large printer/copier distributor and we got several cisco 5500's on pallets, if you have ever seen a cisco product on a pallet you know how well it is packed.
Anyway, I got one broken where it looked like it had been dropped off a large enbankment and when the adjuster came out she said " if it was packed properly it would not have broken when it fell off the clif, door, platform , whatever ". What a crock of shit. Do they even publish accurate guidelines on how to determine if something is " packed properly ? " . Better yet, why does someone not come up with internationally reconized standards for packing so that no one shipper would have to have different rules, and then every OEM could pack things " properly " from the start.....
Oh shit, wtf.....
is a better word to put on the box, or dirty old rags, chunks of wood, pots and pans.
One way to guarantee tender treatment would be to mark the box "nitroglycerin", but that may cause you some other problems.
-- Another senseless waste of fine bytes.
Can you say boxen baseball?
I live in Memphis and have friends who lift boxes for FedEx (which is based in Memphis). Most of the people working there do something else during the day (school, second job, whatever) and work FedEx at night. Just think about it. You're making little money lifting boxes. You boss gets pissed at you for being too slow. So you speed things up a little bit and occasionally punt a box or two when no one's looking to keep up the pace and relieve the aggression.
My general rule is never ship anything you can't replace and always get insurance. So in the case of a computer, make sure you have nice backups of everything. That way in case it gets killed, they'll replace the machine and you can replace the data. And if it's an old machine, maybe it'll be a good reason to get a new one!
Someone probably determined through writing on the package that it contained a MAC. I think that's justification enough for the destruction of the package and contents. :-)
Seriously though, that does blow. Best bet: whoever will ship internationally w/ insurance is your best bet for international shipping. In the US I don't know if it really matters. I've personally dealt with UPS, FEDEX, and the USPS all numerous times. FEDEX is by far the best just because of speed and reliability.
UPS is basically just a lot less expensive. This is what we use where I work. We've actually never had any problems with our packages, condition wise. The biggest problem UPS has is that they don't meet their delivery dates on time, especially at crucial dates. We missed Diablo II's release by three days b/c UPS screwed up. Not a big deal if you're one Best Buy, but I work at a local Mom and Pop Computer Store. When you miss the big releases, it's not good for business. The owner drove to our distributor (four hours both ways) to make sure we had the D2 Expansion for it's release.
USPS: I've never had a problem with the USPS, but they're damn slow. Took me a week and a half to get a processor I ordered that was being shipped cross country. Intrastate and surrounding states: they're wonderful. Next day. Maybe two days. And very easy on the old wallet.
Anyway, FEDEX : Good overall
USPS: really cheap, slow, reliable
UPS: Slower and cheaper than FEDEX, and apparently destructive to international Macs.
There can be no claim, and thus no paperwork to be done. UPS wouldn't insure international stuff.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I shipped a large networking chassis to a guy in Germany (from me in Kansas). The chassis was a Cabletron 6C105 and was filled with blades. The total weight was around 80lbs. It was about 3' tall by 2' wide and 1.5' deep, roughly. I managed to acquire one of the boxes that Cabletron ships those units in. It was heavy packing corners to slip over the unit's edges for support and to completely fill the space from end to end, side to side. I wrapped the chassis in small bubblewrap and stuck on the corners. Then I put it in the box on it's back, access to the cards on top. The corners gave it 3" or so of space all the way around it except for the corners where it was nice and tight. In those gaps I crammed packing peanuts. Literally. I would shove handfuls of peanuts in the bottom void, crushing some until I could force any more in there. Then I filled the sides and packed them down as tight as I could. You couldn't have put another peanut down those sides. It was tight. the box was actually bulging a bit. On the top I placed some large foam pads that were about 2" thick. I then closed the lids, packing peanuts in as tight as I could under it. I then taped it shut. I used an excessive amount of tape of course and didn't just use small pieces to cover the edges. I wrapped the thing in tape almost. It was one tightly packed box. Hell they might have been able to air drop the thing to deliver it! :-) The guy was satisfied with the shipment and I got my $$. The moral of the story is you can't pack something too tight. If you'd had a strong structure under the cardboard surface to support the weight, less damage would have occured. I imagine you packed the box the same way my 9600 was packaged. Better luck next time.
In the surplus-electronics business, it's almost an industry axiom. UPS Blue (2-day air) is fine, and FedEx 3-day Express Saver service is a good compromise between cost and delivery time. UPS Ground, however, guarantees that your equipment will receive the most abusive possible treatment at the hands of heavily-unionized goons who have zero accountability to management.
In fact, you're lucky if your shipment doesn't magically vanish from the distribution hub.
I usually use FedEx when it absolutely, positively, has to get there in one piece. That being said, I have not been hearing good things about the new FedEx Ground (formerly RPS) service. Apparently the integration with FedEx has not gone particularly well, and they're not providing reliable service with low breakage risk.
Before using any carrier or service, it's a good idea to search Google Groups to see what the various collectibles groups are bitching about lately. And always, always pack your gear to survive a 3-foot fall into a concrete floor. If you catch yourself flinching at the thought of such an impact, you didn't pack well enough.
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
When a package comes in that bad of shape, you should open it and inspect it before letting the driver know. Obviously there was damage if the boxes looked like that, you demand that the driver call his manager and deal with the manager. Drivers are required to take note of the package condition when they drop it off if it looks damaged. If you let the driver go, your chances of compensation drop big time.
UPS regularly destroys shipments that are not properly packed. My rule of thumb is can this carton survive a six-foot drop onto its bottom. My other rule is that anything fragile should be shipped by air.
Sorry your stuff got wrecked.
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
My partner used to do onsite shipping/receiving for an environmental lab, handling samples which were often liquid and frequently hazardous, and which have mandated hold times. She told me the lab's policy was to use nothing but Fedex for outgoing and prepaid Fedex for incoming, because not only were damaged/lost samples a common occurrence, (despite being shipped in sealed coolers the size of a piano bench) but also UPS' internal tracking was terrible and their on-time delivery guarantee was worth less than the paper it was written on. It was cheaper to prepay Fedex to deliver incoming samples than to call the client, explain that the hold time had expired while the sample was mistakenly sent to Texas instead of Oregon, and ask for them to resample and resend. That was in 1996-1998 inclusive.
I remember seeing a 60 minutes episode a year or so ago where the packed some kind of sensors into boxes and shipped them using Fed Ex, UPS and USPS and then compared the results. If I remember the results correctly, UPS fared the best but none of them did well enough to make me want to ship any kind of electronics with any of them.
I used to work at a Gateway Country Store, and once had a UPS employee as a customer. When we ordered his computer, he requested that we ship it to him via FedEx - that he would even pay for it himself. He then revealed that when he and his fellow UPS employees see the Gateway "cowboxes", they know something expensive is inside and purposely "kick the box". Apparently, he and his coworkers took pride in how much damage they could inflict upon the boxes. As an upside, Gateway would NOT ship via FedEx, and he begged that we at least put it in a plain cardboard box. HA! A little karma for him.
Several years ago I shipped a small 13" Apple monitor. UPS posted "Item damaged" to their tracking information, but was unable to provide any information on the damage. A week and a half later when they finally returned the package, there was a 4" by 1" hole in the side of the box, and the plastic casing of the monitor was cracked on one side, like it had been hit with a hammer. UPS had stabbed my package with a forklift blade.
Later on, I shipped a SparcStation 20 by UPS ground. If you've ever opened one of these up, you know that they're very sturdy hardware, and would probably survive being run over by a truck, or being hit by a forklift as in the previous example, with only minor cosmetic damage. I received this package back with the machine folded in the middle. UPS didn't find it necessary to find out what happened, and I have no idea how they would cause that sort of damage, short of a hydraulic press, or dropping a forklift onto the package from a significant height.
Recently I had a monitor damaged by UPS after following the specific packaging instructions provided after the previous incident (several inches of foam padding on each side being the primary specification). After it was delivered damaged (with a hole in the box), they returned it to me. They repeatedly denied my insurance claim, so I finally called customer service to get a real reason why. They told me that the package was not packaged correctly, because I had packed a fragile item with no padding, and that I had packed a fragile item directly next to another fragile item in the box. There was only one item in the box! It took several months of calling and threatening legal action before I finally got any insurance money.
The moral of my story (that I probably should have learned earlier), is not to, under any circumstances, ship fragile, valuable items using UPS. I have since discussed UPS's package handling practices with several ex-employees, and they each tell the same horror story, but that's a topic for another post.
I know someone that worked for UPS. He said that boxes marked "fragile" were used as makeshift soccerballs, doorstops, or trampolines.
That being said, if it is that valuable, from that far a distance, then the added expense of wooden crates with lots of extra padding inside may be worth it.
Although it almost looks like it got dropped from a severe height, like inside a shipping container from about 5 + yards/meters of the ground, and got slightly crushed.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I'm involved in shipping lots and lots of computer stuff, and there's a magic to doing this the right way.
1) have two boxes for each computer, one inside the other. the first box should be styrofoam, if possible, that form fits the computer. barring that, it should be bubble wrap, at least three times around. Watch the corners, those break through. Then between the first and second box, put lots and lots of peanuts. Don't put peanuts directly next to the machine; they have static and are a bitch to clean out. Make sure to tape the edges of boxes, and make sure to use new boxes with every shipment. The edge taping will help avoid water damage from shredding the edges.
2) if you get a damaged shipment, do NOT under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE open it and attempt to do anything with it! If you do, you will void the insurance, because they can claim you did the damage after shipping. Instead, take it to the nearest depot or arrange an insurance agent to come and set things up themselves. They will believe it when they open the box and smell the smoke themselves; it's their job to sort legitimate from illegitimate claims, and it don't get more legit than having them do all the work to ensure that it's broken or not.
3) If they took your money for insurance, then they need to provide that service. Otherwise, you can sue them for not providing a service that they charged for (which has created the implication that they will provide that service, hence giving you the peace of mind to use them as a shipper). Whether or not you intend to follow through with it, it's a final step that usually gets most middle managers hopping-- they don't want legal claims on their employment records.
The more aggressive you are with step 1, the less you have to worry about steps 2 and 3. Also, if you're shipping a huge amount of stuff (and don't want to use a moving company for some strange reason), try to get your stuff onto a palette. There's an upper end to damage; if they can't lift it and drop it (the UPS and FedEx guidelines each require that a package be droppable from 5 feet and not suffer any damage), then it's harder to damage. So put everything on a palette at the UPS loading dock, and wrap it all up in cellophane and slap some address labels on it. If it's too much for one person to lift, you drastically limit their ability to hurt it, but door-to-door delivery can be similarly limited.
So, next time...
Both FedEx and UPS are guilty of egregious shipping problems, as well as doing good jobs at different times. We had one FedEx delivery guy we called 'The F*cker' because he performed the drop test in front of us with several tens of thousands of dollars of equipment. Luckily, it survived, but we were very close to committing the other crime of Assault with Intent to Maim. He's been replaced with a guy who gets us everything in great condition.
I showed the pics to one of our guys who does shipping (we manufacture medical equipment whose software runs on laptops we supply) and he busted out laughing as soon as he saw the pic with the "Fragile" sticker. He said he was about to put a fragile sticker on a box one day while the UPS guy (we'll call him Bob, cause that's his real name) was standing there, and Bob stopped him and told him that was a surefire way for it to get there broken. Your package gets special treatment when it's marked "Fragile", it gets repeatedly drop-kicked.
Denver Isuzu Suzuki
I worked at UPS for a year and a half, on the early-morning 'Preload' shift.
Our facility was horrificly out of date: probably one of the oldest in the country.
We destroyed packages constantly. Employees are not supposed to throw packages, but they are expected to work so fast that it is impossible to do your job without tossing the odd box.
Also, the system of conveyer belts and the giant 'carousel' that sorters use to move boxes from their 'feeder trucks' (the trailers that move about the country) through sort to the delivery 'package cars' routinely mangle boxes.
Chances are, it wasn't anyone's fault per se. UPS facilites are always busy, but during the months of november and december, volume rises enormously. The machinery just can't take it.
Also: did your computer box have those little punch-in handles? Workers can't resist grabbing the boxes by those, and inevitably they rip right out the side. Blame that on the computer shippers themselves, for providing handles that just can't handle it.
Plus, anyone sending a package by ground should understand that if it's on the bottom, up to 7 or 8 packages weighing up to 70 pounds each, may be stacked on top of your box. Or, if it gets put on top, it may fall as much as 5 feet, onto a metal or concrete surface. If you're not comfortable dropping your box from head hight, it's not packaged well enough! There should be NO empty space inside the box, which allows things to move around (violently) and allows the box to crush in one place. You should not bother with styrofoam peanuts, because they allow the contents to settle and therefore be exposed to shock from a blow to the bottom of the package. I like to use tightly-wadded-up newspaper. Also keep in mind your package may be exposed to rain at some point: wrap the items in plastic first, then put them in the box with newspaper wads filling all space left, on all sides (including the bottom) of the item. Then use packaging tape (not masking tape, not string, not duct tape) and wrap the crap out of it. Cover every seam with tape. Make at least one strip of tape go all the way around the enitre box, parallel to each axis. If you don't follow these directions, you're fooling yourself about whose fault it is when your items show up in lots of little tiny bits.
When I was at UPS in 1995 and 96, I once heard from a supervisor that after payroll, the single highest cost for every UPS facility is paying off the insurance claims on packages. In other words, they spend more paying the $100 on packages we destroyed, then they do buying things like trucks, or maintaining the facilities themselves, etc. Don't know if that is true, but the point is, it would actually cost more for them to break fewer boxes, then it does for them to pay the insurance.
Don't know why your international shipment wasn't insured. You could have insured it, just not for free...
And, I knew people at FedEx. They are absolutely just as bad: they have the same problems as UPS, but they handle fewer large packages and therefore their equipment is optimized for small things. If you're sending a big box, way better off with UPS than FedEX, in my opinion.
-Leperflesh
I am allowed to criticize you: you are not allowed to criticize me. Sorry, that's just how things are.
ah, and you're just an idiot.
United parcel smashing screwed me twice (why did I trust them again? it was 2 years later and I didn't remember that it happened before, I thought it was another carrrier that did it to me).
Get this: Got a relative that sent me a cassiopeia thru ups for me to play around with, he wrote "gift not for resale" on the duties declaration, basically, it was already payed and taxed and all... he wasn't getting cash from me for it, there's supposed to be a free trade between canada and US anyways, especially for the computer stuff...
Thing is, guess what stupid surprise I got? he insured it for 200$ in case something would happen, I got TAXED on the 200$US (provencial and federal tax, a nice total of 15%) so that costed me a nice extra 30$, plus another 30$ for duties.... basically I had to pay over 90$ canadian to get the unit or else it would be returned. Thing is I didn't answer the door, I was at work, my girlfriend payed them because she knew I was expecting it (and beside my relative would have lost his shipping $$), they didn't give me any receipt (aside from a 2cmx10cm note that was attached to the box) and GOD was I pissed. I've phoned them explaining the situation, they said that gifts thing works for value under 60$, for christ sake, the tax thing, I can understand, to some extent, but 15% of DUTY tax?? no that's called stealing, that's total abuse, and while they may increase they profit margin with that, they'll lose just about EVERY small customers they could get (and sometimes small customers like me have power to chose which carrrier to use at work) you can be sure no package will go thru them anymore.
And for a reference, I used federal express, and DHL, never had that kind of problem, package insured for 500$US another insured for 300$, so it's really a UPS issue, it's really bad customer service and total abusing. Of course they didn't give a receipt, they pulled that one off, I've got no papertrail exept their database, and for 60$ I won't go thru all the trouble of getting my relative to piss on them to get a refund... really clever, but this time I will remember.
I'm sure there will be a hundred of similar stories posted here, I never heard anything good from UPS since this happened to me, I keep hearing horror stories.
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
I've disliked UPS for a long while now, for other customer-service issues.
I've come home several times to find a sticker on my door saying "we came by, we'll come by again tomorrow." No way to simply leave a signature, or to request a time to have 'em come by, or to request that I go pick it up -- just "we came, we'll come again." Useless.
The other problem I've had is when tracking packages online. They tout this instant-update tracking system, but really, it's a "Revisionist History" system. I've seen a package hit a milestone at, say, 3:00 am, then nothing at all for two days, then on the third day (after I've finally received it), the tracking page updates to show milestones at 6:00 and 14:30 on the first day, 8:00 on the second day, and the actual delivery. I've also had it claim that a package was already delivered, when it hadn't even been shipped yet. Once, I had a package listed (for a week) as coming in two boxes. Then, when only one box shows up, I get all pissed, until I open it up and find everything in the one box. So I go back to the tracking page, and guess what? No sign of two boxes EVER being in the system.
Of course, the problem with FedEx is that I usually need to sign, so when that comes to my house I gotta arrange to go to their office to pick it up. And I've had USPS leave boxes on my lowermost step instead of next to my door (I'm in a townhouse, so this is only marginally better than leaving it at the curb), and once had a USPS package left in the pouring rain such that the box literally disolved when I opened it. Fortunately, the contents were in a plastic bag. Basically, they all suck, to varying degrees.
As for your situation, I'd say there MUST be some way you could sue them in small claims court or something. They may have disclaimed "no insurance," but they certainly have some amount of liability, otherwise they could just steal packages with impunity and never even bother to deliver. I'd check with a lawyer, seriously. Also ensure you've got GOOD photos and documentation (a lawyer should help you figure this part out, too). It could be that a nasty letter from a law firm would be enough to get 'em to do something. Remember also that they've probably got their own blanket insurance, anyway, for just such an emergency.
On the other hand, you could just be screwed. My condolances, especially with regards to all the "oh, it's just a Mac" comments here.
As for your situation...how the hell did you pack this stuff? I mean, sure, I can sympathize with some of the damage, like the broken feet on your Mac, but the dented cases? Twisted hinges? The mutilated RCA jack? Short of tearing your boxes open and kicking everything with steel-toe boots, how did this happen? What did you use to pack around all this equipment? or was it all just piled into the box? I've still got the boxes and styrofoam from when I bought my computer in the first place, and if I ever need to move the computer again, I'll still have it. Guess you should have packed more carefully. Better luck next time...
We used to get battered boxes all the time at my old job, once in a while we'd get one that looked like someone took a bat to the side, but none were EVER as bad as the pictures this dude took. Those are unreal.
But I stopped using UPS for a different reason-- because they employ idiots. Whenever I get a 'delivery attempted' note, I immediately call to have them hold the package for me at the depot (nobody is ever home during the day, so 2nd and 3rd attempts would be useless). The last time I did that, I got to the depot only to find that my request had been ignored, the package had gone back out for delivery, and that I would have to wait until I actually got the second 'attempted delivery' note before I could arrange to pick up in person again. And no apology from the woman behind the customer service counter though I was visibly fuming over a wasted trip and having to wait another day for a computer part that I needed badly. Morons!
~Philly
I've put in a few Christmas shifts for UPS, and I can assure you that 99% of the damage caused happens well before your local delivery person gets his/her hands on the package.
Blame the goons who are tasked with loading / unloading semis faster than humanly possible (this was my job).
Ever seen pix of the big sorting facilities? It all goes UP conveyor belts, over the edge and DOWN 15 feet into the bin, where it gets picked up by another belt...
You shipped a monitor? UPS forbids shipments of glass.
Is it packed well? Would you hold it above your head and THROW it down onto the sidewalk? No? Then pack again.
Als very expensive equipment. All shipments had to go Air...
A customer who worked for UPS told us that stuff crossing the Missippi on ground takes a giant fall coming off a conveyor belt...
...it looks like you took after the box with a baseball bat. Personally I've never had anything but good experiences with UPS. I get computer parts, including monitors and cases, shipped to me all the time and I've never, ever, had one damaged in shipping. But if you knew they wouldn't insure it you shouldn't have shipped it in anything other than a bomb-proof enclosure.
I checked the rate calculator on UPS's website and they seemed to have no problems letting me declare a value of 3500 CAD for a package about the size of a G4 Tower being shipped from Winnipeg to Miami. The insurance surcharge was under $20 for that package.
Also, bubble-wrap does not constitute "well packed". If you go in and talk to the people at the service desk, they will tell you you need at least 4 inches of hard foam padding around all sides of something that heavy and expensive. If you are shipping something expensive, always find your local service desk and talk to the people out there, my local people will inspect your packaging and refuse to ship it if you haven't packed it well enough.
Heck, we even shippped a ~$500 fog machine cross-country with UPS ground and it arrived in perfect condition.
Sorry about your hardware though...
------
Where are the slash-groupies? I distinctly remember being promised slash-groupies!
EMS an international courier will insure up to $5000 for international shipping, and they're reasonably quick with delivery within a window of 2-5 business days. The courier charges are slightly hefty, but well worth the excellent condition that your order arrives in. I've ordered several delicate electronics from Hong Kong and got them in perfect shape. I suggest you check it out.
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Fuck you, motherfucker. Fuck yous to: Rob "Taco-Snotter" Malda, Homos, Kowboi Kneel, and RMS.
A) Those cutesy macs are made of polycarbonate plastic. I.e. one variant of bullet-proof glass. I don't know about the handles/feet, but would assume the same material all over.
B) The only way PC cases are "hardened" is in referal to EMF. And that's only that they are metal cages that help conduct EMF around the contents. PC grade aluminum is darn soft.
C) You did see that the two metal cased PCs recieved equivalent amounts of damage.
USA-Democracy is 270 million YESes and NOes a day, not one every four years.
Maybe you COULD write "indestructable" on this one!
Apparently "UPS Ground does not insure international shipments" is not accurate.
Hey...with all the war going on Anthrax,WTC,Afgan. Maybe UPS employee is beating up the package as a cheaper way to relieve stress.....
Fedex is far from perfect either...
I used to work for a large Boston hospital and we had to ship out 2 SGI Origin 2000 servers to a colleague in Utah. They were fairly maxed out machines and we spent a lot of time loading our brain modelling software onto them. Anyhow, we had kept the original SGI anal-retentive packaging and reboxed them and shipped them out.
I decided I might as well insure them to the max, as it was only about 400$ a computer. That gave them $250,000 a piece, if I remember correctly.
Anyhow, they arrived and were badly damaged. When my boss found passed me later that night on the street (just by chance) he told me of what happened and when I mentioned what I had insured them for, he literally lept with glee. Anyhow, Fedex Never paid the hospital the money and the hospital ruled that it would be too much of a bother to bring them to court over it. (Go figure).
Let's hope it's nervgas, because someone taking that little pride in their jobs... you know what I mean. Whom of us wouldn't go apshit to see our computers fucked up like that? Or just about anyones stuff really. Even with compensation I would be pissed.
Just my little rant, I'm having a major cold and pink eyes (jippie!) at the same time, but I bet I still feel better than the poor sap who used UPS. Or as a former boss said when we got an empty package from Japan (that should have contained an expensive camera). UPS, consider it gone...
I bought a foosball table (regulation size) off of ubid. And somehow, this HUGE thing got lost by UPS... How? I really don't know. Thankfully the refund process was pretty painless. Called up ubid, they called UPS, UPS puts a trace on it. They don't find it, they credit ubid, ubid credit my card. EZ. Then I bought another one. This one arrived, but the box was mangled a bit. Oh well! :)
You crazy man? You piss off supahfly!
1.) Back up your data. Do it twice.
2.) Buy a "Dish Wrap" moving box.
3.) Fill the box to 1 foot deep with shipping peanuts
4.) Wrap your machine in large bubble wrap and secure it with liberal amounts of packing tape
5.) Stand your machine up dead center in the box.
6.) Backfill the box with more shipping peanuts
7.) Make sure that the box is slightly overfilled with shipping peanuts so the box is somewhat difficult to close. This will help to prevent the machine inside from moving around too much.
8.) Insure your shipment. Don't be cheap.
If you want something done, do it yourself. Just load the damn computer in your car and drive it the hell out there yourself. If you don't want to do it yourself, insure the hell out of it because they WILL break it otherwise (Sometimes they'll break it anyway.) If they won't insure it for you, take your business elsewhere.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Like my grand pappy use to say, if you want something done... Do it yourself.
Whenever I move, I usually take my car, and my computer comes with me in the car. In fact I put it shotgun so I know it at least has an air bag.
I mean it is companion and all, I spend more time with it than a lot of other people.
"It takes many nails to build a crib, but one screw to fill it."
I used to work for Gateway computers at one of their repair depots in Irving, TX. They stopped using Airborne Express because one of their drivers forgot to latch the back to his/her truck. I can only imagine what 250+ computers falling out of the back of a cargo truck travelling 70mph on I-635 towards DFW Airport.
Shortly afterwards Gateway started using FedEX, but recently to my surprise I discovered that their back to Airborne Express. I suppose the FedEX pricetag was to high, at least higher than the cost of 250+ computers.
http://www.ihateups.net/
Who remembers this article a while back?
The USPS, even when faced with items such as an unwrapped deer tibia and rotting wheel of cheese, had a 64% received rate. Right now they're looking alot better than UPS or Fedex.
The "experiment" is documented here at the Annals of improbable research.
I worked as a package handler at a shipping company, and I know how these boxes get treated... Some people said they thought the damage had to be intentional, doubtful.
Usually we would unload boxes from 10 until 2 or 3 in the morning, and we had to maintain a full conveyor belt as we unloaded the packages. This meant we would work from the back of the delivery truck forward, tossing the boxes to the walkway between the trucks and the conveyor... we would *throw* the boxes on top of each other, so if there was a fragile computer in the back of the truck and then some metal trailer hitches (they weigh about 20 pounds apiece), then the hitches got tossed on top of the computer. Then the boxes would get tossed on the conveyor as quickly as possible, sometimes they get tossed all the way from the delivery truck to the conveyor (about 15 feet)! This would happen at every delivery hub along the way as the package worked it's way across the country! It doesn't matter what is written on the boxes, unless there is a 'heavy' sticker on the package, and we can't physically throw it on the conveyor.
So, when I ship something now, I first wrap it in bubble pack... so thick you cant see what's inside the bubbles. Then put it in a box with foam peanuts filled to the top, then put it inside of another box! fill this box with peanuts also! I haven't had anything get damaged with good packing, even though the outer box is sometimes completely destroyed!
I recently ordered a 7 computer systems from computergeeks.com via UPS ground. 6 systems (monitors, etc) arrived very quickly (1 whole state over - CA to AZ), but the 7th was in limbo. The UPS tracking showed the package to have been scanned at all points up to Tucson (I'm in a town next door), but it never arrived at my door. I waited about 3 weeks (UPS doesn't exactly promise speedy delivery when selecting 'ground') then started a trace. UPS admitted guilt and kicked back cash to computergeeks to ship a new unit. I then had the fun of another week for computergeeks to get a shipment of something else, since the previous system was sold out (obviously not UPS's faulty). Everything worked out fine, but a little slow. I did get a free CD-RW out of the deal (not as compensation, it was just the latest machine computergeeks received and happened to cost the same). Overall I've had great luck with UPS ground, and I've order $thousands from online stores. I usually keep my purchase within the 5 surrounding states to minimize 'ground' time. I usually receive the packages in 1-3 days regardless of the 'ground option could take forever' clauses.
Religion and science are both 90% crap..but that doesn't negate the other 10%.
NEVER EVER EVER send anything by UPS unless you get in insured and 2 day aired or less. If you have ever seen one of their distribution centers, you would be shocked. Imagined miles of conveyer belts going 5 stories up. Boxes on each one... as they roll across, a barcode reader reads the UPC code and an arm will push the box off the conveyer belt to the next level down, depending on it's destination. I saw TV boxes drop 5 stories and onto the ground, the maintenance person just picks it up and throws it back on the belt. They do this for efficiency, but with absolutely no regard to the contents of the packages.
The reason I say 2 day air or less, is because those packages are not as automated... they are taken by actual people from truck to plane to truck to plane. This is probably the only way you can get something shipped intact to it's destination.
I had a bad experience with UPS too. I used them to ship my Sun box to college. They dropped the monitor, and the plastic housing cracked. It was such a hassle trying to get them to pay up (I had everything insured at ~twice the value of the whole system). Fortunately my dad does quite a bit of business w/ UPS, and he got them to pay for the whole system, and I still have it to this day; It's just fine, except there is ducktape on the monitor (which makes it look rugged). So all's well... Bottom line UPS smashes parcels, despite their ample unity.
what if you're shipping something that's impossible to replace?
./) will make them lose enough business...
dude isn't saying "woe is me" he's saying don't use UPS cause this could happen to YOU.
personally, i'd get a hold of someone important there and tell 'em that you have a lawyer on retainer and you will sue them so hard you'll own their right to vote. it's not exactly the nicest thing to do, but it works a lot of times.
UPS has a lot of competition. something this well publicized (hey, it's on
--- sig moved for great justice.
I shipped a whole lot of stuff from London to Sydney by air with a company called Interpack last year. I insured it all completely.
When it all arrived, one of the items (a guitar) had had a forklift tine poked through it, and my computer looked like it had bewen dropped down the stairs.
We claimed on the insurance and heard nothing, then on enquiring further, were told that Interpack were in receivership, and their insurers weren't paying claims.
When I checked later, I found that Interpack were still offering shipping services. DOn't ever use them, even if you pay for insurance, your stuff won't be covered.
If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
Which did UPS consider to be the international leg?
I had someone sent me a package I depended on from the US to Calgary via Purolator Courier.
I still haven't lived down that experience, yesterday a customs form arrived for me for $10.25 - a small sum but a sum nonetheless that I wasn't expecting.
Anyway, here's how it went:
1. Delivery attempted, I'm not home
2. Phone Purolator the evening of the delivery day, woman assures me that my package will be at my workplace the next day.
3. Next day, twiddle thumbs.
4. Phone Purolator. According to "John the unit manager" my package has never left the shipping area.
5. Fine, I say, I will pick it up at the depot that night.
6. Weedle a ride from someone to drive out to the airport to pick it up.
7. Package is "not in the shipping area". Drones cannot give explanation.
8. Scream "F$cking Assholes!" and slam door.
9. Phone Purolator on third day. All the "unit managers" are in a meeting. Demand to speak to SOMEONE. Get passed around to four other people. I can't stay at home all day to wait for package. Clerk says that if I leave a note with a signature, the driver MIGHT leave it.
10. Finally someone understands my urgency and pages the driver.
11. Package arrives. Happy happy!
12. Receive 5 phone calls within the next hour to make sure it arrived.
I could have saved so much time and effort if the package had just been there when they said it would be!
They all suck in Canada except Xpresspost. Xpresspost from Canada Post is a god send! Fast and reliable, no problems ever.
Has anyone checked this story out?
Maybe it would help our troubled friend in winning compensation if we wrote little notes that he could attach to letters destined for UPS. UPS just might react to having its name widely tarnished and many voices speaking out for an ill-treated customer. Even if Jutus is from Canada, I think this is the least we as a community could do to help him out. :)
To Whom It May Concern,
This kind of service is an outrage, and it has now become a powerful public warning to the rest of us who ship computer hardware and other sensitive equipment. Typically, I've used UPS to move my machines around over long distances (Pitt, PA to Coos Bay, OR). I've almost always used UPS when ordering PC components off the Internet.
If this is how fragile packages are treated by UPS in shipment, I feel they are no longer a sufficient carrier for electronic goods. Furthermore, the action or lack thereof, to resolve the situation this young man experienced in a satisfactory fashion, shows that UPS has no good faith whatsoever towards providing good value for their customers or well being for the packages they ship.
I'm afraid it would be foolish and unwise for myself or anyone else to use such an unreliable and irresponsible delivery service. I'm sure if UPS would be willing to fully compensate individuals for destroyed packages and destroyed contents, this attitude could be easily changed. Until then, UPS must remain a service to be avoided.
I hope you are willing to correct your mistakes in this case so that myself and others may resume use of your services. Thank you.
Sincerely,
siliconNO@SPAM.compsci.duq.edu
Why bother.
I used to work for a courier and anything that had "Fragile" on it was fair game to be mistreated. The mentality was that if it's fragile, then the sender should've had the sensability to pack it properly. Now I must mention here that I was also 17 years old at the time or around there.
According to the UPS webpages, they offer optional "Excess Value Insurance" on UPS Standard and UPS 3 Day Select from Canada.
For packages from Canada, they do not mention UPS Ground at all! The lowest class available in their list is Standard. In the page for UPS Ground, they explicitly mention "within the 48 contiguous states".
So, UPS made a mistake here, selling you UPS Ground service when it officially isn't supported. They are partly at fault here. If the packages are valuable to you, you should have opted for a higher class of service that can be insured, as you no doubt realized as soon as you saw those boxes. Caveat emptor....
Dr. Demento On The 'Net!
Hey, anonymous cowardly dork:
Has it occurred to you that maybe he's just giving us a heads up? Warning us about the possible consequences of shipping via UPS, in order to help us out?
Of course not. You're just leaping for any excuse to put someone down, to somehow make yourself feel better for your own useless existence.
I have rather stong feelings on UPS.
I think it's best for all that I not get started...
I've seen UPS drivers drop monitor boxes and then stack them in reception so that the damaged boxes were hidden. Once you sign for it, you have to fight to get money.
My favorite was when I ordered something 2nd day air via UPS. On the 5th day I got a postcard saying they couldn't find my address (in San Jose). Funny, the post office knew where it was. On the 9th day, my package arrived.
What can I say. Use FedEx and if you can't use FedEx, use ShockWatch.
You can take comfort in the fact, that at least Tupperware has a lifetime guarantee on their products. Take that bowl to the nearest Tupperware party and the Tupperware representative can either get it replaced right then and there or possibly give you a voucher to get it replaced. Good luck.
Regardless of whether it is shipped with insurance or not shipped with insurance, this is an incredible amount of damage for one package to incur. I mean, give me a break, it's not like the box was round and covered with grease. How hard is it to carry a BOX from one truck to the other? Was this the magic bouncy truck with no walls?
UPS should be absolutely appalled at something like this. This is an established corporation with a reputation to uphold. Ground shipments are their B&B, if they are really fucking things like this, then they won't be around for a very long time, regardless of their size.
I'll just use the post office. They're scared to death of bad publicity right now.
I am always reading on here where one website or another is getting hammered by all of the people checking it out after it appears in a slashdot article. Why don't we all point those emails at UPS?
If you got a couple hundred email messages in one day from people all telling you that they sure as hell weren't going to be shipping anything through your company after seeing this then it might get your attention.
Maybe include a link to this site with all of the pictures and a hint that the company needs to do the right thing by him if a quick look at the facts proves it's merited.
Just a suggestion
That is two computers AND a monitor in ONE 4 cubic foot box?!?! I use a larger box for ONE machine. Am I missing something?
I worked for a nutritional firm that wholesaled and retailed nutritional supplies all over the world.
We used UPS ground (unfortunately) due to supposed cost saving. At one point our ratio of damaged shipments to good shipments was 1 to 8. Over 12% of our shipments arrived in less that pristine condition. Over the course of two years, we had to triple our shipping and handling charges, and started insuring even the smallest shipments that we had.
One time we shipped seven medium sized barrels of powdered algae, clearly labled 1 of 7, 2 of 7, etc. and marked 'VACUUM SEALED. DO NOT OPEN'. 1 of the 7 never arrived, 1 arrived late (and unsealed), and 1 of the other 5 was unsealed on arrival. Total distance involved in shipping ? About 800 miles.
To this day, I use UPS as a last resort.
I recently got my new ibook from ups in Beautifull shape, no damage whatsover. However, I've had terrible experiences related to Fuck Ups of the combined forces of UPS and US Imigration.
My dad and little brother went ot the Netherlands to get a new visa (They took my mothers and mine passports) Then, the people at the US ambassedy in the Netherlands said my mom and I had to come over!!!! My dad and little brother had a flight leaving a few days from then so they had to get the passports to us quick (we could not leave the US without our passports) So they shipped it with UPS who <b>LOST</b> the passports!!!!!!!! It took them <B>5 DAYS</B> to get our passports to us!!! So we had to get new flights, temporary passports, etc.
/me hates the us imigration
Sig you!
I have a friend who used to work in a distribution center of a major courier. He would recant the most hilarious stories of his shipping shenanigans. He and his compatriots were most enamored with packages marked 'fragile'. Warehouse hockey, football and basketball were regular favorites. Drop kicking field goals with the small packages and playing forklift skewer with the larger ones. They took a special delight in 'accidentally' knocking over stacks of computer packages boldly marked fragile. It frankly amazes anything worked after they got a hold of it.
John
Curiously, I didn't see an photos of the packing materials you used... Anyway, there is a reason that computer equipment that you get from a retail store comes packaged the way it does... it's the bare minimum you'll need to ensure safe delivery. I used to work at an insurance co. in their warehouse and we had a $15,000 'foam' machine that I used to create custom packing for each and every piece of equipment I shipped. Someone tried bubble-wrap once and 12 out of 14 in a shipment of (old style) CRT's were completely obliterated.
I hate to 'break 'it to you (Arghhh) but it looks like it's your fault. I'm no huge fan of UPS (as in UPS-Yours), but as a (former) professional I have to be honest with you. Stick to Airborne-Express or USPS and package using the original boxes (you do keep those right???)
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech."--Benjamin Franklin
FedEx on the other hand has never broken anything I've shipped, so now I use them exclusively.
A friend of mine worked at UPS as a line sorter and told me that, given the input rate and the sort-to distance (as in feet), they had no choice but to throw the boxes.
Oh, and I have never managed to get UPS to pay for damage, though in fairness FedEx isn't real good about actually following through with promised remuneration for their errors either.
Oh, boo fuckin hoo.
Your "well packed" equiptment was apparently expensive enough for you to whine about, but not expensive enough to insure, and ship appropriately. What sort of idiot ships a fragile, ESD sensitive, vibration sensitive, humidity sensitive $2000 piece of equiptment via UNINSURED UPS Ground?! Its rediculous to assert that UPS doesn't insure internationally. Go look at their webpage! You just didn't want to pay extra to have it shipped the way you should have shipped it! You likely went as cheaply as possible, and subjected your machine to two or three weeks of abuse in the system when for a few bucks more, you could have done the job right!
If you actually looked at UPS's website, and saw their rates for an example journey from Montreal to Miami, you'de know how much your decision to go cheap cost you. You probably payed $78, the cheapest possible rate for a 25kg package measuring 40cm x 40cm x 40cm. For $40 more, you could have had it delivered in 3 days guaranteed and insured for $2000.
For every fuckup any shipping company makes, they do the job correctly a million times. You voluntarrily elected to subject your machine to the equivalent of "riding in the cattle car"...What did you expect?
In other words, it's not UPS's fault that youre a dumbass...And a cheap dumbass, at that.
Bowie J. Poag
Man, I feel sorry for your compu... oh wait, it was a Mac, nevermind.
You aren't supposed to use "bubble wrap, etc." to ship computers!!
You use foam and peanuts. Also you should only have 1 machine per box. Granted UPS did damage your box by dropping it, but chances are, had you packaged your stuff more securely, it all wouldn't have been killed.
what did this guy do? Put like 3 machines in a single box? DUH they probably banged into each other and killed each other off
After graduating from Computer Science at Vanier College (Montreal, QC, Canada), I had a job offer from Microware in Des Moines, Iowa and I accepted it.
I shipped my stuff via UPS ground. The total shipment was 20 boxes (lots of computer books!). After one week, I had received 18 of those boxes. Two other were missing. Guess where my Linux box was? Yep, in one of those two boxes.
Using UPS tracking on the Web, I found out the box ended up in Tennessee. How could a shipment from Montreal to Des Moines end up in Tennesse? I bitched and complained to UPS, and the two remaining boxes were finally delivered. I got no pictures of the damage (hey, this was 1996 and digital cameras weren't cheap back then) but let me tell you that the controller card (ide, serial, floppy, parellel, this was a ISA 486 after all, not any onboard fancy stuff), both hard drives, and the floppy were fubared. The motherboard was also disconnected from the tower.
I called UPS USA, they told me to call UPS Canada. I called them up, they said call UPS USA. After getting bounced around a few times, I mentionned to UPS USA that I would be talking to lawyer about all this.
Bingo! They dispatched a representative to my workplace, brought the box to a local computer store for damage assesment, and two days later, they dropped by again with the box with all the defective parts replaced!
SOLUTION:
As one canuck to another, my best advice is to say the word LAWYER. The US being what is is (litigation-happy), you will obtain service in no time!
http://www.club977.com/ - The 80's Channel!
Your source for commercial free 80's music!
I had a laptop shipped to me via FedEx. Los Angeles to San Francisco, and the company shipped it "overnight" on Thursday morning.
Friday night, I call to ask where my package is. It's in Miami, and everybody's closed, so I have to call back the next morning.
Saturday morning I call. They apologize. They'll have it to me by Friday, they promise.
Six FedEx working days for an overnight package? Not acceptable. I may not get it today, but I want my package on Monday.
"Well, sir... shipping overnight is only $30 for your package. If you would like to pay $30, we can have it pulled and shipped to you via our overnight service. Then it would arrive on Monday."
"Why can't you do that anyway?"
"We only deliver overnight on packages shipped via our overnight delivery service."
"And how does your computer say my package was shipped?"
"Via our overnight delivery service."
"So you can deliver it to me overnight, then."
"No, sir. It will arrive on Friday unless you pay to have it upgraded to overnight."
"Upgraded? It was SHIPPED overnight!"
"I understand, sir. It will arrive on Friday."
*Click*
I called back and spoke with supervisor after supervisor, until I finally reached somebody who understood that I was not going to pay $30 for them to correct their monumental screw-up. He had the package pulled and overnighted to me for free.
Agh. Whenever you deal with shippers, always ask for the supervisor. I don't do it often, I'm a shy person. But you will NEVER get ANYTHING out of FedEx (or UPS in my experience) unless you "turbo" it and go for somebody with authority. Be polite (always), but be firm. If one person can't help you, ask them to put you through to a person who can. Don't fly off the handle. If the guy in the phone center doesn't have the broad, sweeping discretion you need, yelling won't help.
A couple years ago I had a monitor shipped from MacWarehouse through UPS. The UPS guy came to my house, brought the box up the stairs, then DROPPED IT DOWN THE STAIRS. Not on purpose of course, but it's hard to believe some of the shit people do D:
Next time you ship a computer with UPS, label the box with "BIOHAZARD" (with that nifty, sharp, menacing logo). Chances are, shippers won't want to break it open, exposing themselves to strange, white powder. Of course, they may call the FBI... which would only lend more scrutiny to the package care... and if it's damaged, you could sue both the FBI & UPS. Right?
:)
Why bother.
My question is: why hasn't UPS figured about that 90% of America isn't home between 9 to 5? They even made a movie about it. Shit.
You should never, ever,ever ship anything fragile via UPS, insurance or no. I work in an IT department, and have often had problems with them breaking or losing valuable, fragile equipment. However UPS, is fine for shipping non-fragile items such as t-shirts, styrofoam peanuts, or cannonballs.
I made the mistake of shipping some crystal via UPS from an Office Depot outlet. The box arrived with one corner of the double wall box caved in. I even had the glassware professionally packed by a moving company, but when the box's volume decreases by 30% it doesn't help much.
So I filed an insurance claim with UPS. Yes, I'd paid for insurance. UPS said they didn't need to pay - it was Office Depot's problem. I called Office Depot and, of course, they said it was UPS' problem. I went back and forth for four months before giving up.
Bottom line: don't ship UPS with Office Depot. And pay for all shipping charges with a credit card, so you can at least contest the shipping charge if it doesn't arrive.
Whose small claims court would have jurisdiction? The originator, or the receiver?
When I was building my computer, I ordered all the parts off of Price Watch. Finally, everything had arrived except my case and hard drive. I looked up the tracking number on UPS's web site, and they were due to arrive the next day at 11 AM.
I waited and waited, but no UPS truck showed up. A few hours later, I checked the web site again - and it said the package had been delivered! I called UPS and they said "yes, the driver's log said it was delivered to 3610 South [My Street] at 11 AM this morning." "No, I was here all day and it never came."
Finally I walked down the street, looking at my neighbors' houses. I found the package inside the front door of 3800 South [My Street]. The driver didn't come anywhere near my house, but he was more than happy to deliver it to a house with a different address where nobody was home.
Now I'm sticking with FedEx.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
Don't totally blame the UPS employees. Management has, for years, been trying to get more blood out of the employee turnip, and failing with great success. Rather than staff discontent, such damages are more likely the result of UPS employees trying to achieve some impossibly high rate of package processing, per management orders.
Yes, I actually had a similar situation a few weeks ago, when a monitor was delivered with a bashed-in side vent panel. What was the return method the company uses? They sent me a UPS return label to slap on the box for return shipping.
Go figure.
Mmmmmm... Bold, yet refreshing!
I have seen G4 case handles get cracked in transit from Apple, but yeah, generally you wouldn't have seen the major structural damage.
:)
For the record, I keep all my boxes' boxes
Did you actually put that much gear in one box? Not worth the savings in shipping - huh? Each should have shipped separately. Let me give you a tip for the next time you need to ship delicate electronics... Use the original box (or get one from the manufacturer(s)), and double box - with foam in between the inner and outer box. It may cost you $20-40 more to ship, but if you want to be sure it will live, ship it right - not cheap.
and This link should be used to report damaged packages. Use it even if you don't think you'll get anything from them to make sure someone knows what's going on.
JFMILLER
Strive to make your client happy, not necessarly give them what they ask for
Anyhow, I bought an old Mac at the Goodwill for $5 and then modified it to make the funky patterns and shipped it to a friend for his birthday.
I went to Mailboxes Etc. and told them I wanted to ship it UPS. First they wanted to double box it. That alone would have cost $150, and would have substantially increased the shipping costs as well since double boxing makes things huge.
After convincing them that I had spent all of $5 and about two hours of my time on this, I conviced them that they could single-box it. However, they made me sign something that stated that it they broke it, it was my own fault.
Then while filling out the form there was a box for value. I put a sideways '8' since it was a one-of-a-kind item. They went crazy again and asked why I had done that. I replied that it was a work of electronic art that interacted with music in a unique way. That really worried them. This all occured in Palo Alto and maybe they were used to shipping strange expensive stuff.
Finally I crossed out the value and put in a big '0' and claimed that if it wasn't art then it was junk. That confused them but finally they shipped it, single boxed, for a total of about $70.
The moral of this story?
Mailboxes Etc. doesn't appreciate a smart-ass.
addendum: My friend painted it with gold paint and used it at parties. It was even more popular than his lava lamp.
Lasers Controlled Games!
If you can read you would notice:
"UPS Ground does not insure international shipments"
To translate, that mean he couldn't insure it with UPS.
Where on UPS's site does it say that? In may, I shipped a computer to Montreal from NY, and insured it for $1000. This is not a policy change either - I just went to the UPS shipping charge calculator, and was able to get insurance for a package for both US->CA and CA->US. Insurance is only $0.35 for each $100 of value.
Having worked for RPS, I can vouch for it. Shipping is not done by angles, it's done by $5.00/hour strongbacks. They hum stuff from trucks to conveyor belts. They hate heavy boxes they can't get their hands around. Big light boxes are a joy to them. Sometimes things fall down. Yes, I was a stong back for two or three years. The worst boxes were from a beauty shop. They broke every time, sending sheen and other goo onto the floor! Did I mention plastic wraps inside?
Your boxes look like they recieved significant drops. It's hard to tell how those boxes were packed, and if indeed you used more than one. The cardboard, however, is clearly old and the box should have been discarded.
Thank you for posting the pictures. They are good examples of what can happen. My condolenses for your parts. The folks who did this, I'm sure, cursed when it happened but did not waste too much time with it.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau for the city where UPS has its headquarters (Atlanta Georgia) at their web page (http://www.bbb.com).
My experiennce:
UPS took 2 weeks to deliver an important package that I had shipped 1-Day. After filing a complaint with the BBB, I got a call at home from the local UPS manager, and follow-up from the UPS office and BBB about the complaint.
Hopefully this gets you some results. If not, sue.
I would never ship UPS again, but I'm FORCED to! Has anyone else noticed that UPS has exclusive shipping contracts with just about every reseller?
I was getting married a few years ago. Our wedding bands where shipped via fedex to chicago. We received and empty box and attitude from fedex when we called about it.
They found the fedex employee that stole the bands at o'hare and sent them to us 2 weeks after our wedding without so much as an apology. UPS would have to deliver dog fecies to my house to get me to use fedex again.
As it's been stated hundreds of times by now - insure your stuff.
While I feel your pain from the broken machine, and think it sucks that UPS didn't insure it, looking at your pictures it appears that you might have taken a bit more care in the packaging.
There is a foam packaging system on the market (I think you can get it at most packing places) that consists of large thick foam sheets. You basically place several sheets in the bottom of the box until it is 50% full, put the contents on top and compress it half-way in. You then place more sheets on top, and compress the rest of the way until it is flush with the box top. It's not the cheapest stuff, but is fantastic for protecting equipment.
Also (and I'm not sure if these exist in Canada, but would expect they do,) there are a number of companies that specialize in shipping. Examples in the states are "Mailboxes, etc.", "Shipping Shack", and a few others. A lot of these places offer their own shipping insurance in addition to whatever insurance the carrier has. That could have provided a work-around for UPS's international policy.
Finally, did you ask if UPS offered insurance for an additional fee? According to their website:
The option of additional Excess Value Insurance may be added to your shipment.
All in all, the whole thing is very unfortunate, but perhaps others can learn from this before it happens to them.
First: you must match the package to its contents. DO NOT try to fit as much as you can in a single, LARGE box. Instead, use smaller, properly sized boxes for each major piece of equipment. The biggest reason for this is that a lighter package, when dropped, will not produce as much force on impact. Inevitably, all impact forces are first applied to a specific part of the package or a specific item in the package. Therefore, a heavy package, loaded with many items, when dropped, is more likely to apply enough force to one of the items in it to break them, as compared to similar drops of the items packaged individually.
Second: The items, shipped in the box should NEVER end up as the primary load bearing members of the package structure. This is why computer and monitor boxes a)use double layered corrugated cardboard boxes and b) have heavy-duty Styrofoam pieces to provide an internal structure underneath the skin created by the cardboard. Bubble wrap does not provide such a structure. Additionally, the Styrofoam is resilient, like bubble wrap, but more so. Styrofoam keeps its shape much better.
Now, most times those factors are what keep computers, as shipped from the factory, in retail packaging, safe in shipping. Sometimes, EVEN those factors aren't enough and that's a clear indication of major incompetence on the part of the shipping company.
Those two requirements, it sadly seems, were not met by Jutus (the shipper). So, as much as I hate to point any blame, it seems that some blame does reside on the shipper, not all on the shipping company.
Again, this is my opinion, based on my experience, working in purchasing for the IT department of a med/small company and from years of purchasing my own machines via the 'net or mail-order.
-i
I don't get how you were considered a "troll"....yet you received a "Score of 2"
Anazing!
"Look where we worship" -- Jim Morrison
It's standard fare for boxes to be thrown into and off of the trucks. It's nothing new, you just have to try to package your stuff as well as you can, try to insure it, and hope for the best. That's what the airlines do, too. Just in case you think I'm lying, think about the last time you flew anywhere, and that person with the huge bag that tried to take it on the plane and were told they had to check it. By the time you board the plane all the prechecked bags have already been stowed, so guess what that banging around under the plane is after you get to your seat? Yup, that's all the bags that are checked at the gate. The ramp guys HATE having to go back in after they're already done. And the heavier it is, the more it gets thrown.
I don't have much experience with FedEX, but every large company has a few bad employees. UPS severely damaged an insured router I shipped from my office to my home, but they did update the internet viewable routing information that the shipment was damaged, so that was easily dealt with. They also like to use the huge hub that is one hour from my apt, rather than use the local office/warehouse that's ten minutes down the road. This doesn't matter much until I ship myself an overnight package, they try to deliver twice on the same day, and on the third delivery attempt (only two days), they take it back to the main hub. For some unknown reason they require delivery signatures on all overnight packages (though not on all others). Then I have either 5 or 7 days to go there and pick it up, or they ship it back to the sender (me at the office). It's an incredible PITA to drive an hour to get a package when you could have picked it up 10 minutes away.
Since your package had to come from Canada to the US it was subject to customs inspection. This oftem means the package is openned, all the contents removed and then repackaged. The people who do this do not always know how to properly repack. Your photos show the boxes had been retaped several times. I assume they were not in this state when you brought them to UPS.
When shipping interantionally where customs inspection is likely you want to use packaging that easily opened and repacked. Cardboard and styrofoam peanuts is not the answer. Wooden crates with latches (not nails or screws) are a better answer.
As an altrenative since you are in Canada there are many shipping points where you can have a customs inspection done at the time of shipping. You basically bring the packages in without the final taping being done. The inspector looks the boxes over and then you tape them up in the inspectors presence. Paperwork is affixed to boxes that prevents it being openned at other inspection points.
This method for international shipments has worked well for our firm for many years.
We ship a good hundred computer parts every day thru several carriers including UPS. Seing packages in this condition on arrival is unfortunately quite common. We even got a metal mouse box that we got back damaged : it was half flattened with big tire marks all over it.... now I would be curious to know how they manage to drive over the parcels they are supposed to deliver !
Okay, maybe you can borrow someone else's paddle. Was any of this purchased recently? On a credit card with nice automatically warranty protection? Perhaps your home owners/renters insurance covers such an accident? (Mine would.)
Ship a box o' antrhax and let them kick that shit around the warehouse.
hahaha
(disclaimer: this was meant as humor. I do not condone terrorism, even against canadian UPS employees)
seriously though, you wish you had some magic dust that would get on the bastards and turn their skin blue for a week or something so you could find them and follow them home and beat the shit out of their posessions.
I have shipped a lot of equipment for work in the past at different companies and UPS is a disaster. If I remember correctly the rep (now this was a few years ago, so you better check again) told me that a package had to be packed to survive a certain drop to the ground (I remember something like 20 feet). When I asked why they told me it was because they *might* just push the big boxes out the side door of a jumbo jet onto the tarmac and then corrected himself to say that if it fell off of the ramp while being carefully offloaded from the airplane it might get the kind of damage we were seeing.
(Someone who works at a hub for UPS please tell us if this is true anymore or not.)
Just for reference, we were seeing BENT backplanes on servers, even though the boxes didn't look that beat up.
With FedEx they appeared to be more careful and damage was few and far between. One funny story is we shipped a box with ten copies of MS Office in it and I insured it for $4,000 because it was cheap for us to do. The only thing that arrived was the top of the carton with the shipping label. After about six weeks we settled for $3,200 (the actual cost of replacement at the time.) Good on you FedEx!
The U.S. Postal Service, while happy to take your money to insure anything, has a very difficult procedure for filing a claim where both parties have to fill out a complicated form and the damaged goods and packaging have to be taken to a Post Office and turned over to be shipped further to a special type of Post Office where they will determine if they are going to honor your claim or laugh at you for packing that Grecian urn in crumbled up newspaper.
The catch is that after three months of nothing and I checked back at the post office the clerk actually smiled as he told me that it was "routine" for an insurance claim to take 18 to 24 months for processing! True to form it was 11 months later that they denied my claim and in the letter let me know that the period for appealing their denial had already passed! I could pick up my junk at a Post Office miles away from the one I had dropped it off at within 30 days (of which 22 had already passed) or they would throw it away for me for free.
What works?
UPS ground is pretty good for big packages if you don't mind the wait. Don't use the 3-day Select as they fly those too.
FedEx is still the best for flown items as far as I'm concerned.
Good luck!
Ugh.. this happened to me once. I ordered a new motherboard via ground and one side of it had a somewhat large fracture in it. From the abuse of the box, this looked like the company's fault. A lot of the people who work at the shipping centers are in the 19-35 range, and most of them really don't give a shit. Anyways, UPS got hell for sending something like that in such poor quality. Maybe they'll fix their service. Maybe they won't. But they sure as hell won't be sending mishandled items to the son of the CIO of the company.
Best of luck, even though it was a... ah forget it.
"Thank you for your inquiry. We sincerely apologize for the condition in which your merchandise arrived. We are unable to determine when or where any damage may have occurred to your uninsurable personal effects from Canada. Personal effects imported from Canada to the United States cannot be insured. We are unable to process a Damage Inspection Report for your computer.
Thank you for using UPS Internet Services.
Marilee"
So basically I'm screwed, period.
UPS Canada does not know if the shipment was damaged in the States, and vice versa. In accordance with UPS's policy on these matters, my only choice is to suck it. UPS does not respond to customer needs as one entity. It has a billion departments internally to shove your issue around to for weeks.
Again, if they had offered insurance, I would have taken it. They advertise "dependable" service, and this is my first (and last) time shipping with UPS. Obviously in hindsight I am a moron.
My oversight was in assuming "dependable" service includes your items arriving in one piece.
I once had a cheap espresso maker shipped to me via UPS a couple of years ago (95-96). Admittedly the unit was shipped in it's store-shelf box, which is under UPS specs for box strength. (UPS used this as an out to avoid damage liability)
The damage done to the espresso maker was so severe I still cannot fully explain it to this day. The Espresso maker consisted of a rather sturdy rigid plastic housing and a very thick metal pressure jar inside. The base of this unit could clearly support in excess of 150lbs static weight without damage to the plastic housing.
Upon arrival the box height was reduced 4", the plastic housing of the unit was significantly crushed inside and the plastic control knob was sheered off. Strangely the glass decanter was unscathed.
Given the light weight of the device, a drop from a warehouse height ceiling (20-30') onto concrete would not have been sufficient to cause this level of damage to the device. My best guess is a heavy (>100lb) package was dropped onto this box from a moderate (3-4') height. ie: someone strong threw a very heavy object into a truck or onto a pile of boxes, crushing everything in its path.
Since this experience my rule-of-thumb for UPS shipping expectations are:
1) expect your package to have to withstand being thrown 15' into a hard object if it is light, 5' if it is >100lbs
2) expect it to have to withstand someone dropping a large heavy package onto it.
The bottom line is to expect that some UPS handlers really don't seem to care, they just throw stuff into piles and onto belts. Armor your packages accordingly. I at minimum use double-layer heavy gauge cardboard, even on light items. (sometimes I kludge this by cutting panels and lining the inside of the box with them and gluing them in place. As long as they are an exact fit you still gain crush resistance.) Heavy items may be wooden or plastic frame reinforcing the inside of a cardboard box, or stronger construction.
-Matt
I once received a hanger from UPS on my door indicating that they could not deliver my package because they couldn't find my address. Note that they would have had to parse the address properly to leave the paper hanger on my doorknob. The logic of this was lost on the customer service rep.
In any case, though - no offense, but you can't just wrap a computer in a cardboard box, no matter how sturdy, and expect it to survive, with anyone. UPS is crap, for sure. But these places have conveyor belts all over the shop that can't read the word "fragile" and that can throw other packages against your package as well as jamming your package against itself, walls, etc., you can even consider the fact that these packages get crammed into boxes and shifted onto planes. The human who takes your box at the counter will handle it with ginger gloves - the sweating ex-felon trying to get it and 300,000 other boxes onto the plane by 2 am cutoff or else won't.
Matey, for future reference - when shipping, pack the thing in a crate, and send it with a reputable company. Anticipate it being dropped. Anticipate it getting mashed by another package. Anticipate it sitting on a runway in below zero weather.
I'd like to advise this Canadian that his attempt to get back at UPS might not result in him getting his computer replaced (such a Canadian idea - complain and shame the company into refunding your money!) - instead, it might result in a process server hauling HIM into court and winning for millions for "slander", "libel", "daring to back-chat a multi-national" or any such crime.
--- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
Last summer, I was a-wanderin' down my street, and lo, there was a Fed Ex truck double parked to the right of me.
Overhead and moving fast, a package launched from the truck landed hard and skidded on the greystone's front stoop.
I looked at the driver; he said, "You didn't see that."
I agreed I didn't.
Fed Ex, UPS, it's all the same -- don't judge by brand. Men will still throw packages around, because it's fun.
Figuring mailing my PC to college would be at least just as bad plus I'd be without it for a week (OH-NO!!!) I checked it onto an airplane and it even came back in far nicer condition than yours and I even got 300$ compensation for thier gross negligence providing a much needed upgrade. :)
:P
But seriously, your mistake was not in mailing it, but in mailing on a plan that left your pc in thier hands for so long. UPS ground requires multiple stops and transfers and they dont call package/baggage handlers throwers for nothing
Mail it air-mail overnight or two-days and and you'll have better luck.
Remember kids: While hard work may pay off in the long run, laziness always pays off now.
Little thing I discovered when reading the agreement you sign (with Purolator, but it may apply elsewhere).
Picture this: Shipping two boxes of stuff. Box 1 contains a monitor ($500). Box 2 contains a computer (desktop) ($3K), 2 ruggedized milspec laptops at $10K a pop, about $50K in software, and (at a guess), $250K in source on disk. Now, I was going to just ship it and insure it for $100K (enough to cover most situations). But what do I discover?
A little caveat: If you ship n boxes, if you get a box lost in shipment, the recompense is total insurance/n. So, with two boxes, one of which I wanted $99,500 for if it went awry, and the other I wanted $500 for, this was not the way to ship it.
So I got two bills of lading and filled them out separately. If they were gonna lose my expensive package, they were gonna pay.
Anyone shipping multiple packages may want to check into the details of the shipping agreement for insurance beforehand.
-- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
...to move the following of my personal stuff:
We recently moved and let the gorillas move everything but the things I listed above. Sure I had to rent a small truck but nothing was damaged. It was well worth the small cost.
Many years ago, a ``professional'' moving company found a way to severely dent a peuter plate wedding present given to me by the EE faculty where I was teaching. It was packed in the middle of a bunch of china which miraculously managed to survive the move. Of course the moving company found some reason that they weren't liable.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
I too, have had terrible problems with UPS in the past. Not too, long ago, I shipped a nice gaming machine to a friend. When he recieved it the midtower case was cracked, and every PCI card had lodged sideways in the case. The heatsink had even been knocked off of the Elsa Gladiac inside. I had a bad Gladiac at home and attempted to pry the heat sink off of it to see how difficult it would be, and it took quite some effort. I am convinced that the UPS employees had a round of soccer with this box. Or mabey it fell off of a truck going down the freeway. Last week I shipped an ebay item to the buyer COD, and when I tracked it I saw that it had been delivered and dropped off on the front porch! I called UPS and they said "you didn't send it COD!". I was holding the airbill in my hand, with a large check next to the box that said COD, and a dollar amount written next to it. These guys are boneheads. Go Fedex!
If you follow the link, you'll see: "equipment was well-packed (bubble wrap, etc)"
A computer in bubble-wrap is not well-packed! By my estimation, there are only 2 ways to have a well-packed computer: 1. Original packaging or 2. foam in place
Next time, call around to professional shippers who can do this. I just sent my Compaq tower this way and it cost about $60 US, and next time I have to ship it, I'll have a perfect box!
My next-cube neighbor was a UPS grunt for a few years, and he confirms that "heavily-unionized goons" is a very accurate description. He actually said the shipping part of the company was run by the Mafia, like most shipping in the US (this was in New Mexico in the 70's). UPS management is incredibly repressive (he'd rather clean toilets for Safeway than work for them again), hostility and stress are every bit as bad as other posters have said, and employee theft is rampant.
did you ship it ground?
If I remember right, UPS and the union are scheduled for contract negotiation soon. Maybe union members are doing less than exemplary jobs right now in preparation of a strike.
Just a thought
*sigh* back to work...
The worst part: Although it was insured it took them a year to give me replacement parts. And by then all the replacement parts were obsolete anyway.
USPS is the way to go. Seriously. Now that they have no limit on insurance, they rock! Everything I've shipped has arrived perfectly.
------ Warning! You are too close!
This assures no human will try and lift (and possibly drop) it, and that they will have to handle it with a palette lifter.
Also, have the UPS associate inspect your packaging before you send it off, so they can't complain about improper packing. There should be 6" between your cargo and the container wall packed with shock absorbing material.
As for the claims, yes they can take months. It's much better to prevent damage entirely and dummy proof your package by attaching it to a large object like a palette.
Because Taco and Co. need to find a new object for the angst of the teenage kids on /.
In most of their recent Microsoft posts, they are seeing that people will not vilify Microsoft when they have not made any mistakes.
In most of their recent YRO posts, the content goes over the teeny-bopper's heads. Unless someone is suing to shut down Napster, it involves too many adult issues.
They still get a great hit rate on Katz, but they need a new evil empire.
The computer was shipped via UPS flight 1331 which is occasionally used by the Canadian Secret Police for black ops. It seems that a group of terrorists from Greenland were attempting to infiltrate Quebec and poison the Maple Syrup harvest and blame it on the OntarioFirst! movement, thus giving more fuel to the Quebec independence movement. (If Quebec gets its independence Newfoundland will be cut off from the rest of Canada and ripe for invasion by Greenlander nationalists who have strived for centuries to liberate Vinland from the yoke of Canadian oppression.)
Well, flight 1331 was diverted to drop paratroopers into Northern Quebec in an attempted to foil the dastardly Greenlander plot. After the paratroopers were dropped, unexpected windsheer downed flight 1331 over Hudson bay.
Search and rescue failed to find any traces of flight 1331, but the copilot, Red McFearson miraculously survived. Red managed to swim his way onto an iceberg.
On his iceberg, Red had many adventures... including a near fatal attempt to milk a polar bear in desperation brought on by hunger. However, it turns out that polar bears like to be milked and Red was able to survive.
Only two things kept Red going during those months stranded on the iceberg suckling the polar bear... his special relationship he developed with a hocky puck, Marsha... and his drive to fulfill his duty and DELIVER YOU PACKAGE which he was able to salvage from the wreckage.
So, you see, you have no room to complain and you should be greatful for the patriotic, dedicated men and women of UPS.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
Having had the job of a claims inspector for UPS I can safely say that the majority of claims for computer are from improper packing. If you want to safely ship a computer take it to Mail Boxes Etc and have them pack it. They use a double box method that will safely protect your computer everytime. It's about $15 but it's worth it.
That's easy moderated +1 and then moderated -1. Or moderated +1, moderated +1, moderated +1, and then moderated -1 and moderated -1 again. Then there is moderated +1, moderated +1, moderated -1. etc. Get it yet?
I recently had success getting money out of UPS (that they claimed I wasn't owed) by sending a complaint to the Better Business Bureau; they even have a website.
What I would like to see is some legitimate evidence backing up this story that the computer is trashed. Right now all we have is pictures, and as much as it pains me to see a Mac that badly broken, we certainly are not provided with any evidence confirming that UPS did indeed ship this equipment. Funny, but I would think that would be essential to having a legitimate case, pun not intended.
So where's the scan of the UPS invoice? I shudder to think that pictures alone are enough to convince people of the guilt of a company, when not one of the pictures indicates the company did indeed ship the equipment after all.
I shipped a full-size tower from Minnesota to Texas with FedEx and when it got to Texas it looked like someone had tried to run a sharp metal spike through it. They tagged the $5000 (at the time) 3D-Labs Wildcat 4110 video card directly with enough force to unseat it and nearly tear the agp-pro socket completely off mobo in the process. So it looks like you can go with UPS and get boned or go with FedEx and get shafted... your choice :P
- The auditors said to secure the server... hand me that duct-tape -
Not my message, silly! His!
This is his own fault. Why would you ever ship something valueable in a UHAUL moving box??? They are cheap, flismy boxes meant for 1 time use. They are not very sturdy compared to other carboard box alternatives. This guy obviously learned a lesson.
It was just a MAC :-)
Seriolusly, take them to small claims court. This is what I had to do in Oregon. I shipped a computer that was well packaged too and it was bounced around like a basketball so much that the CPU became disloged.
UPS: had the worst computer parts/systems shipping, we'd often get packages beat to Hell. And this was back in late '97. By the time I got there, the company had figured which parts they could ship via UPS, in terms of durability. When people would ask us to ship via UPS, but if they -insisted-, well... the customer's always right, right?
FedEx: between the two 'big names,' FedEx treated the packages better, and often the FedEx people we dealt with were much nicer. Maybe we were towards the end of a hard run for the UPS guys, I don't know.
the 'other' guys: often, these smaller carriers had service that came out -better- than the big boys. Sure, they didn't have the bells and whistles of online tracking and whathaveyou in those days, but our packages came through very well (barring an accident involving a forklift and a pallet stacked with monitors). I think the smaller carriers treated our stuff better, because they -had- to. Customers are -much- more important to the smaller carriers. UPS can lose unsatisfied customers by the couple hundred, but the smaller carriers would just about shrivel up and blow away with a loss that big.
NO CARRIER. But we still have a frigate and a destroyer...
There's no wrong way, to eat a Rhesus...
Thanks for the hot tip!
Man, if only PC manufacturers had similar policies.
sorry, but there aint no way I am shipping my computer anywhere. Its too important for my job and personal life to let some jackass drop on the ground
I'm sure UPS dropped this multiple times from extremely high levels nad probably ran into it with a forklift :) but it really seems like the box you used did contribute to the damagae since it wasn't even close to sturdy enough.
Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
I'm printing this article, comments, and the associated web pages, and leaving it on my boss's inbox. We ship both FedEx and UPS... But we'll see in the upcoming month what the ratio is...
"Piter, too, is dead."
Where are the photos of the actual packaging? It looks like you did not use the packaging from the original boxes. Was there foam or anything? Did you just put it in a box and think it was safe?
I used to have the best of luck with UPS. But recently, they've been pummeling the shit out of everything. You know those really hard cardboard mailing tubes? They beat it up so bad, it actually creased the poster inside the tube. Another (quite sturdy) box I had shredded open, and some UPS guy apparently taped some of those holes back up.
Have I been lucky that it was fine before now, or do they have an increased load because of the post office's anthrax scare and the like?
This reminds me of an incident at a computer company I used to work for, where a UPS driver unloaded our shipment of computers and monitors by pushing the entire stack of boxes from the back of his truck onto the loading ramp (ground level, not a dock). And the did this more than once to unload the several dozen boxes we had been expecting. Somebody grabbed a camera and took a bunch of pictures of the pile of boxes haphazardly dumped on the warehouse floor, so at least we had something to go back to UPS with.
And no, nobody signed for them.
Shameless plug for my photos on Flickr
Sorry about your computer. If it helps, I'll stay away from shipping my stuff UPS.
For a hillarious article on USPS shipping experiences from a tooth in a clear box to a Helium Ballon (requested negative shipping charges), see Postal Experiments from the Annals of Improbable Research.
Kind thoughts do not change the world
I had similar problems shipping a recording console with UPS. They refused to even return my calls until I started threatening a lawsuit. I have made the entire story, including photos and contact information, available at http://www.christopherpetro.com/ups
As for FedEx, I have sometimes had problems with them (though far less often). The important difference, however, is that it has never required a threat of a lawsuit to get FedEx to cover my damaged or lost packages.
Heh, yeah I used to work for UPS at a hub, loading trucks.
First of all, you have no idea that volume and rate at which these things get loaded. They expectation is that the package will arrive at the belt, get scanned by the loaded and then carefully placed into a 'tier' in the truck. A tier is a structured stack of boxes. You go through a training process called "cornerstone" that teaches you how to do it.
Unfortunately, there is simply way more boxes at a timethan can be tiered properly. I was one of the better loaders, but most employees are hired based on meeting the beating heartbeat requirements. UPS has incredible churn and will hire anyone. The work is extremely hard.
The end result is that boxes are thrown, stepped on, dropped, squeezed into two small spaces, kicked, and beaten. A computer should have a solid five or six inches of foam around it to survive, and the cardboard should be very thick. Look at the boxes that the manufacturers use. They don't use them because they are paranoid, they use them because that is the cheapest box that will get it there safely, and those boxes aren't cheap.
Writing fragile on the side is going to do nothing at all for your box. On a slow day it may get unusual treatment (good or bad) but normally there just isn't time. When there's an avalanche of packages coming down the chute, and you're expected to scan them all before stacking them, everything else is unimportant.
XeoMage
When I started working at UPS I was told that Fragile (pronounced Frajillay) was French for box. No joke.
Packages shipped via UPS Ground from Canada are protected automatically against damage or loss up to $100, and Excess Value Insurance (brochure available here) can be purchased for values exceeding that. The cost is only 35 cents per $100 of value, up to $50,000 of coverage. Looks like he just didn't opt for the coverage.
Caveat expeditor.
If you shipped that computer using only bubble wrap and an old worn box that isn't very likely to protect the computer at all. The original formed foam material and box should be used instead. Also, I believe that any packaging needs to be able to withstand a 1 meter drop without breaking.
Some companies go a little too far with packaging though. One time a company sent me a very large box that contained ONE 7 foot network cable.
I once had a computer damaged whilst in shipping ... with no insurance. Doh!
... whatever.
... problem solved.
The damage was minimal but I needed to figure a way to ensure there was no damage the next time.
I realized the damage occurred when the different assembled components were flexed, jostled, dropped
Duh! Disassembled components travel independently - like packet switching.
Also, most components don't need a package - just write your name and address on the component case (slap a label on it if it's a card or something) affix postage and drop in the mailbox
Shipping all the parts ASSEMBLED is just begging for problems.
Dirt doesn't need luck.
I work in a small computer store that gets the majority of its supplies by UPS.
If it wasn't for the quality of the packaging supplied by most computer equipment manufacturers, I'd suspect a significant portion of the equipment would be damaged in transit.
The items in question were all shipped from a national wholesaler (techdata) via UPS. A motherboard I recieved had a partially crushed box. I've seen Athlon processors arrive in dented boxes. Some of the boxes look like they have been torn apart. However, the parts usually arrive in working order, despite the damage.
To UPS, its just a package, that is handled and moved by a bunch of low-paid workers who have no interest in treating your package with TLC, and the management doesn't seem to add any accountability. Until management cares enough to track where and when the damage occurs, and uses that information to remove the problem employees, nothing will improve.
Just my $.02
Don't you think it was a little dumb to use UPS? For a computer? That would be like using a flimsy tissue paper cups to protect your nuts when you play hockey.
Sucks man but... uh... you have to accept some if not all of the blame for shipping a COMPUTER by notoriously bad UPS.
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
My god.... I'd say that was intentional damage by looking at those photos!
:-)
:-)
:-)
Hey, anyone want to try an experiment?
Get an old 386 in a tower case - something you wouldn't mind losing, or something you'd actually *LIKE* to see mangled (eg : That old pentium that won't stop BSODing in Windows and that you can't get Linux to work properly on.)...
...And ship it UPS with "kick me" written on the box instead of "fragile"
I'd like to see how mangled a condition the box is in wen it arrives at its' destination
...Of course, they'd probly leave it alone and it'll arrive in pristine condition, but you'd sorta expect that
...this is getting out of hand
I spent many hours putting together a desktop for my mother-in-law. Time spent setting it up in a "bullet-proof, they can dial in and have have fun with it Christmas morning". I even purshased a new case to remove power supply problems and shipped a 17" monitor with it. All screws were tight, and I even made a Norton Ghost backup in case Windows crashed hard in the future.
UPS decided to play football with the machine. I had it insured, but they rejected it because "I didn't pack it according to their requirements". Course, I shipped the machine in a box that the case was shipped in! You would think that if they can ship a case in a tight box with packing all around, I can ship the same case in the same box with components inside! In the end, my in-laws' Christmas was spent picking up a video card, sound card and power/ribbon cables from within the case and trying to reassemble it with me on the phone.
Lesson: Use FedEx! UPS won't take responsiblity for their holiday hires that seem to like trying out for the NFL with my packages than doing their job!
...In the proper shipping container, probably via UPS.
I've shipped all kinds of computers, monitors, and other peripherals (even ceramics, large mirrors, bottles of wine, and antiques) domestically and internationally by package services, container freight, as checked airline luggage, by truck, and just plain old mail. Plenty of damage to the boxes, but no damage to the contents *ever*.
They may take up space, but the original shipping cartons are designed to take the punishment. If you don't want to, or can't keep yours, get one that some new purchaser has just gotten rid of. If you can't do that, pack properly.
Use bubble wrap, lots of it. Get styrofoam from the trash somewhere. Nest packed cartons inside of cartons. Pack the cartons full. If the contents are even slightly loose (as these seem to have been) then "Contents may settle during shipping." Look in you next box of Triscuits and checkout the dust at the bottom.
Insure everything that is of any value to you.
If the contents are valuable, isn't it worth an evening of your time to do it right?
It's not UPS vs FEDEX vs whatever. They all hire cheap labor to do something as quickly and cheaply as they can. They all suck at babysitting your plastic knick-knacks. Shipping companies do not care about your personal possessions. You do. Take some responsibility.
Or now that you're in America you can sue. Good Luck!
Sig?
Sigue Sigue Sputnik!!!
Handling actualy refers to handling by the company you're buying from, not by the shipping people.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
They're called UPS ground. The stuff is not quite ground up, but they had a fair go at it.
Two funny UPS stories which highlight the kind of service they have:
My roomate in college worked at UPS during the summer, and he said that if a box was fragile or looked interesting they would often "accidently" open them by throwing them in front of trucks as they pulled out. The box & contents would be battered to hell, and they would get to find out what was inside. Also, if something was put on the conveyor belt and it was a little too large, they would kick it until it would go down the conveyor belt.
The second story concerns some books that were supposed to be delivered to me. I lived on 927 S King St. and my package was dropped off at 199 W. Madison St., which was approxiamtely 7 blocks away. I was lucky that one of my friends just happened to live there, or else I never would have got my package. According to UPS's tracking site, the package was delivered to my house. Ever since then, I've tried to ship FedEx whenever possible.
If it's supposed to move and doesn't, use WD-40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape.
OK, first, if the shipping company won't insure it and you can't find a seperate policy, don't ship it with that company. You don't have any real recourse (other than maybe small claims court) if things get smashed.
:)
Second, don't pack the gear yourself unless you've got the correct materials and the knowledge of how to use them. Or maybe the orginal shipping containers (I keep those myself). The place I used to buy gear from a number of years ago did something they called Gorilla Pack, which was factory boxes, wrapped in plastic and placed in an outer box and surrounded by expanding packing foam. Works great.
Last, never sign for a package (or allow one to be signed for) without inspecting for damage. Once you've signed, you're screwed. I actually had to train the receiving clerks at $FORMER_CLIENT to call the appropriate hardware guys when stuff came in before letting the driver off the hook. Threatening to take the cost of a server that cost an order of magnitude more than they made in a year out of their paycheck got the point across.
Man, I hope you have backups.
IOALS (I'm only a law student). You could try sueing them in small claims court for breach of bailment. Breach of bailment basically means you entrusted something to them and they broke it. Check you're shipping recite for any disclaimers against this or arbitration clauses before you file. While you might be able to get around a disclaimer arbitration can run over $1000 so only file if you have some major damage (on the bright side if you win they may have to pay the arbitration costs).
First off, for any valuable item thta's being shipped, regardless of the company, it should always be insured for its full value.
Secondly, I personally wouldn't touch UPS with a twelve foot pole. I temped in law firms for a few years, and only ONE of them used UPS -- they represented a union that was involved with UPS. Every single other firm used FedEx. I've never had FedEx lose a package, but there have been numerous times when someone would send us something via UPS and it would show up late, or not at all. NOT a good thing in the legal business.
-Jenn
Sometime last week... I happened to look out my
apartment's window as the USPS van pulled up.
The driver was having trouble carrying a big,
heavy monitor box out of the truck. So what did
she do? She *threw* it the 6 feet to the ground.
WTF? Where do they get these people?
I thought I'd have already seen this advice, but...
Package all of the components inside the computer separetly inside their own heaps of bubble wrap/foam peanuts/whatever you can think of. Especially the hard drive/s and the big chunky heatsink. That way no inter-component torque will exist.
If you wanna go for overkill, you can take the case apart, too.
Now, FedEx has problems too, but UPS == avoid! I have a friend who worked there and he was always telling me about how packages would be damaged by co-workers tossing them around in their haste to get more packages moved. They have a bunch of anal, peppy manager-types who exhort everyone to work faster, and they time everyone's speed. Go too slow and you get criticized or lose the job. So packages get tossed and squished.
If you're shipping something they can't break, then go with UPS. Great for shipping clothing and most foods, because it's reasonably cheap. But don't trust them with electronics, glassware, or art. Use FedEx for that.
-Kasreyn
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
Several years ago I worked part time for a contract agency and did some package auditing at UPS. It was common to see packages get damaged on the conveyor belts. I usually worked on the 2nd & 3rd day air lines. The packages are routed down a conveyor belt, then diverted down a chute. When the loader in the truck got backed up, the cumulative force of all the packages backed up on the conveyor belt would crush many boxes. Additionally the rails on the chutes were only a few inches high, so occasionally a box would be forced over the side and on to the ground 6-8 feet. This was 2nd and 3rd day AIR, I can't imagine how a package could survive through the Ground lines.
UPS operations are actually pretty impressive when you get a look at the internal workings, but I would never send anything fragile through there, except for next day delivery, but I imagine that would be costly.
And to think I once thought the opening scene in Ace Ventura Pet Dective was just a joke, apparently it really happens.
Anyway little UPS story for those who care. I recently ordered some stuff from buy.com who uses UPS exclusively. After about four days of waiting I tracked the package online. Its status was listed as "Could not find street address" or something like that.
"HDS got a package for ya, sounds broken, probally is, Im sure it was something nice"
Turns out that since we live in a new apartment complex UPS didnt know the addresses to each unit. I had no problem going to get the package, but the ironic thing was when I went to get it the guy at the desk told me, with a straight face mind you, that UPS automatically sends out a postcard to people whos addresses arnt valid. Now maybe Im just ahead of the game here, but if your street address isnt valid how are you going to get the postcard. I asked the UPS employee this and he just gave me a blank stare, and then with a puzzled look handed me my package...*sigh*.
The irony comes in to play when you get the UPS TOS sent to you when you start an account with UPS. It's a four book set about shipping policies. Ten to fifteen pages are just about how to file a claim with UPS. They pretty much have every possable thing that can happen to your package, and if it is covered in the TOS. This means that each thin in the TOS happned to a pakcage at one point. Or some lawyer thought that a UPS employee may dunk your package under-water.
Either way, I use a personal courier if something is really important. FedEx and Airborne are no better.
You know who I think is crazy? All my ex-girlfriends!
F log
R elentlessly
A nd
G rind
I nto
L imp
E xtinction
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Way back in 1995, I ordered an A4000T (when they were still current, and a hot commodity) from a US supplier - the only place that had stock. This was a 911 rush, as the local cableco needed it for their channel-info thingy.. (their existing equipment had died, and their backup machine was just barely powerful enough to run the software.)
The only way the supplier would ship was UPS. I called UPS, and told them that the machine NEEDED to be here ASAP. We paid extra $$$ for "UPS Red", which guaranteed (or so they said) next day delivery.
So we're waiting for the unit the next day, and it doesn't arrive, so (of course) we call UPS - we have all necessary info ready (we had the supplier fax over all of the documentation when it was picked up.) They tell us it's in Calgary Customs - "What's it doing there? You guaranteed next-day delivery!" we said. "Well, that only covers us - if it gets held in customs, we can't do anything about that."
So I ask WHY it's held in customs, and they can't tell me - it'll have to wait until tomorrow.
So the next day, I call and ask what the hell is happening.. they call customs (or so they say) and say that there was no customs documents (which is 100% BS, I had copies, signed by the UPS people in the US.) SO I fax them the copies, and wait...
The NEXT day (this is three times as long as they guaranteed us) the machine is STILL stuck in customs, and they say that the customs officers rejected the forms because they weren't filled out properly.
I ask them for the customs information, so I can call customs myself.. they say "Oh, we can't give that to you, and you should't call them, because they'll think there are drugs, and it'll get held up even more"
So I hang up and call customs anyway - the customs officer has no idea what I'm talking about, they have hundreds of packages.. but she promises to do whatever she can to help.. I describe the approximate size of the packages, and the source and destination addresses, and she goes to look for it in the warehouse..
An hour later she calls me back - she's found it, it's being held because UPS never submitted any paperwork, even when asked. So I ask her if there's any way to expedite it - she says sure, just fax me the docs, and they can release it in 5 minutes.
I got the package the next day.
The bottom line is that UPS sucks. I've never used them since.
A year ago I had books mailed to me by a friend.
Approximately 300 miles of travel. 10-15 books in a medium sized box shipped UPS ground.
When I received the package there were F*cking TIRE MARKS on the box. How they managed to run over a box a foot high is beyond my comprehension.
Oh joy.
After spending a few years in the shipping/recieving docks of UPS, I give this piece of advice:
Your package is nothing more than something to take aggression out on. $9.00/hr for shit work makes one very angry, and it is your package that loses out. A fragile package just means it breaks easier when it's thrown into the trailer.
I put on my robe and wizard hat.
Yes, you can buy insurance on *overseas* shipments... but not from Canada.
You see, in my native land, it is customary to raid UPS vehicles and bring our loot back to furnish our igloos.
i know this is off topic and i'll probably get modded for it , but i just noticed that the site has a counter below it...and if you click refresh within 5 seconds you have an idea of how a website gets slashdoted...... vikas
If there was any negligence you can sue...I KNOW I DID. Go to small claims court, file for the max and show your pictures, UPS never even showed up, I won the value of the hardware as on the market today, which means I lost hundreds but I got the machine back.
As an avid traveling LAN'r I must point out that DHL is the BEST carrier around. They have shipped my machine 15 or more times and never had a problem. We also use Airbourne express but that does not help for ground.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
If you paid by Credit Card (your comment said you used UPS internet, so I assume you did) and haven't paid the bill yet, refuse payment. Tell the credit card company you didn't receive the service you were promised. Most of the time your CC company will go to bat for you, and you can at least get back the cost of shipping. ONLY DO THIS IF YOU ARE SURE YOU AREN'T GOING TO GET REIMBURSED.
"Da ist ein Technölüst in mein Unterpanten!"
No, just pointing out why people are crying about running with knives and yelling to the world when they stick themselves. Why do we protect stupid people?
I used to work for UPS while putting myself through college. After working there for 9 months, I WILL NEVER SHIP ANYTHING THROUGH UPS. The company treats their employees very poorly, creating a "bad attitude", whereby employees take out their frustrations on the packages, damaging them as much as possible in an attempt to damage the company's reputation. I don't care what the extra cost will be, I ALWAYS SHIP THROUGH FEDEX OR THE UNITED STATES POSTAL SYSTEM. And I'd like to add one more thing, I would never ship my baby (Macintosh) through any delivery service - it will go with me in my car.
The only reason I posted anonymously is because I'm too lazy to create an account, though I read Slashdot DAILY.
Sorry for your misfurtune.
They did a good job on beating this MAC up
I feel your pain...
I build and ship custom acrylic water bubble fountains. Imagine routed/shaped plexiglass the size of a coffin. UPS used to smash them occasionally (but were well in$ured), until I switched to making all boxes out of 1/2" plywood. Home Depot will cut a $6.99 sheet of plywood for about 25 cents. Just screw it together and you have an instant UPS-proof crate for dirt cheap. Rope handles are good, too, so they UPS guy can easily pick up the box instead of dragging/throwing/dropping it.
For better protection, spray paint the crate in really bright, catchy colors. I would use yellow/red/black/green/blue spray paint and paint swirls, spots, lines, outline corners and 12 inch tall letters saying FRAGILE. That way your package isn't 'just another box' to UPS. It's a box that really stands out to them and catches attention. Kinda like how poisonious tree frogs are brightly colored for their protection.
(Imagine a Beowolf closter of signature lines)
www.Beyond7.com Insane modern art water sculpture.
Perhaps UPS was using some space on Flight 587 to transport that thing from NYC to the DR then over to FL? The damage I am seeing I would not expect from anything that could normally happen in a cargo bay. If it wasn't on a flight that went nose down then the only thing I can think of is Fork Lift damage, or perhaps your boxes were used to support the cargo container for say a FREIGHT TRAIN or Bill Gates' equivilent of wealth in gold bulion.
I suppose next time you could pack the thing with some more of those styrofoam peanuts. I know they are a damn nuisance, especially with static electricity and all, but they could have saved your computer... or not.
... so it seems that you have to just sit back and cross your fingers no matter what shipper you use.
- The images show an RCA jack bent at an
angle from the rest of the components on the
PCI card coming out the back. This cannot
be done accidentally, even through gross
negligence. It would be deliberate.
- Memory dislodged: you do realize how much
force has to be applied to dislodge them? It's
not trivial.
Forgive me for being cynical, but, as someone else noted - you can buy insurance. And anyone shipping without it...You didn't buy any chance "help" make the damage look worse before you took those pictures, did you? If you did, I'd advise you remove the pictures from that site asap before they're used against you. On the off chance that you really are the victim of ALL the damage shown here, take 'em to court if you can stomach the time you'll spend, or next time insure.
Look it's like this; every once in a while a package, due to it's relative weight will be packed on the bottom of the pile, regardless of it's labels, loaders are human. Sometimes the stuff marked fragile is loaded at the back of the big trucks, so it gets wet, even with the big plastic moisture guide in place. I've seen a whole load of boxes get soaked at the back of a truck before. There was one manuacturer in particular who had a service site we shipped to that got nothing but busted up boxes from the loaders. These were returns, so many of the guys took out their high spirits on these boxes. Then there were the Social deviants who only had the job for one night. you can imagine the havoce those guys cause. Anyways, I don't load anymore, or work for a packing company or shipping department or anything to do with truck any more. Have a great day!
Hello Kettle,
You, my friend are as black as pitch.
With love, Pot.
OMG!!!, Looks like it fell out of a moving truck or plane!
One more reson why the CPU/Monitor ride up front with me and NOT in the trunk.
I had a similar experience with UPS (UoooPS, I damaged another item!). I was sent a computer (not mine)and the box and computer looked exactly the same as yours (steel tower). I called UPS and they tried to blame me. They changed their story after repeated calls (and many days) from successive supervisors when I finally got it through to them that.... it wasn't my computer! It was State Farm Insurance's. It had their "Property of" UPC right on the case. They didn't have a clue why I recieved it. It WAS addressed to me!
The moral of the story is that they do it to the insurers too!
So casually did they push it that I *knew*, right then and there, that it had seen much MUCH worse in their warehouse. I was happy, tho, that it even got to me, after they lost 5+ other boxes.
Have never (ever) had a problem with FedEx. Of course, YMMV.
Maybe next time you should put "ANTHRAX CAPSULES - SHAKE WELL BEFORE USE" on the box and see if it arrives in tact? Or just put "Osama" in the "Sender:" box on the UPS form...
Let me get this straight: You put a Powermac G4 tower, an PowerTower Pro, and a monitor all in one box, and expected them to survive?
I don't see how all three would even fit in one box, as the box looks to be the size that a normal monitor (plus copeous styrofoam blocks that the manufacturer uses (hint, hint)) comes in.
Did you just pile them in with some newspaper and think that it would be okay? In general, 'fragile' or not, expect your box to get dropped from 4 or 5 feet a few times in transit. Basically, there should never, ever be direct contact between your valued hardware and the interior of the box.
As for insurance, that's a different issue. I hope you get your money, but it reminds me of a friend who says he wouldn't mind getting hit by a car as long as he had medical insurance. Me, I'd prefer not to have the pain and suffering in the first place.
Kevin Fox
It looks like it's all Mac stuff.
no wonder.
The cases on that junk are always made out of plastic.
Hippies shouldn't design computer enclosures.
I am not a class action lawyer, but wouldnt punative damages be a possibility if you could document a pattern of negligence. Power is in numbers, and if enough people sign-on, you could slap down this shoddy service, big-time. A quick settlement is guaranteed in a market with so many competitors waiting to eat your lunch. The cost of the bad press alone should have them pulling out their wallets.
Could you imagine a beowulf cluster of broken Power Mac G4s?
When I moved cross country, I packed my monitor in a superheavy double-ply cardboard box and used about 7 layers of big bubble wrap followed by 3-5 inches of plastic peanuts. It was probably about 6-14 inches of padding(front back had more padding than sides). I also shipped my computers in cardboard boxes, but again I rolled 4-6 layers of heavy duty bubble wrap and a ton of duct tape on the outside. 5 computers, 3 monitors and a 27" TV all made it safely. Some of the boxes were dented when it arrived, but all of it worked. If you have to use cardboard boxes, use heavy duty double-ply boxes. They usually have rating numbers. I don't know if there is a standard way of numbering them, but the ones I used were 5 and rated for appliances.
I was new so I asked: "WTF?" (okay, I said the whole prase
BTW: if you want people to handle your package well, take a line from "The Big U" and mark your package "Warning: Universal Solvent!"
Under Paid Scourge
I used to work for a courier company, after my experience there I wouldn't ship anything through any company. My job was to load/unload trucks, the priority was to get them on/off the truck fast, being nice to the boxes was NOT a priority. If a box didn't fit we would make it fit (kick it into place or put a few boxes full of books onto it), small boxes were referred to as 'Basketballs' and we would throw them to the top of the truck or use them as padding for big boxes. If we were having a bad day we would 'beat up' a few boxes (Great stress relief!) ones marked 'fragile' were the usual target.
This past August, I shipped my case from Florida up to college in Illinois. I shipped this, along with my monitor, stereo system w/ 15" floor speakers, and a crapload of clothes via FedEx Ground. I spared no expense on insurance - everything was covered even for total destruction.
The case was shipped in the factory box and padding, so nothing should have gone wrong there. Expecting the worst, I carried my RAID array with me on the plane, just to make sure. My mistake was shipping the other components *inside* the case, instead of shipping the mobo, CDR, etc. separately. For it seems, at some point during the 5-day trip, the case was dropped hard on its side - the motherboard side!
Yes, it was rather stupid of me to ship my case with the half-kilo copper heatsink mounted on a CPU *without* a shim. Needless to say, that impact not only chipped the CPU die but put a crack through the entire chip. It was dropped hard enough to knock the motherboard off the standoffs, and it was loose in the case upon arrival. The fall even dismounted my light kit, which had been held in place with *epoxy*. DAMN...
Now, if they dropped my case hard enough to break epoxy, I think they're partially to blame here. So, I filled out an insurance form - I only wanted $200 to replace the chip and mobo, as everything else still worked or was easily repairable (this is MUCH less than the insured total). As you guessed from the title, I'm still being given the runaround.
In their claims instructions, they tell you to save the packaging, but nothing further after that. You can imagine how I was somewhat peeved 2 months later when they rejected my claim - they never saw the packaging. Gee, perhaps if they had told me when/where/how they needed to see the packaging, they might've had a chance. The packaging is still here, cracked styrofoam and all, waiting for another FedEx reply. I've finally photographed it, and am just waiting to find out who needs to see it (methinks I'll be waiting a long time).
MY ADVICE: (geez, I wish this thread was around in August...)
Store EVERY box that your PC parts come in, and ALL of the original padding. COMPLETELY disassemble the computer and ship the motherboard, expansion cards, and CD drives separately. Keep your HDDs and your CPU on your person, as these are the most fragile/sensitive/valuable. Finally, ship the case EMPTY. Insure everything for its market value, and don't take any crap if your goodies get broken.
BTW, the other things I shipped arrived just fine, except for some minor (cosmetic) damage to the floor speakers. This was because I neglected to save the original packaging - even a quilt was not enough to keep the boxes from chafing each other.
Here's wishing you better luck!
--- Sigs are dumb.
Yep, that sucks.
I have had simillar experiences with ups.
fedex, or at least usps are much better.
I didn't have the molded styrofoam for my computers. Most people don't.
I did pack the computers with enough bubblewrap to stop everything from moving. Also, the packing was inspected by UPS at the point of departure.
If UPS had refused to ship my parcel then and there, I would have taken it to another courier. Instead, I paid them a few hundred dollars and they shipped my goods with their "dependable" service.
Bottom line: The service is not as advertised.
If this kind of damage is beyond their control, they should warn consumers that they should only ship pillows and comforters with UPS in order to ensure "dependable" service.
(Check this PDF for UPS's insurance policy; they do offer insurance on international shipments, and the only limitation I could find for international shipments that was different than for domestic shipments was for jewelry).
There ain't no rules here; we're trying to accomplish something.
get released at his packages?
Looks like something that would come out of the arena =P
...most, but _certainly_ not all UPS package handlers are not particularly carefull about packages. every day we got a report of the previous day's statistics, eg. 145packages/man-hour, and how many misrouted packages. not number of packages damaged, people dissatisfied, etc. pkg/hour is king! needless to say, the care that i and my coworkers took often came under scrutiny because we were sacrificing our stats...
i have a pretty good idea of what probably happened to this system: it was probably stacked at the top of the stack, at the very back of the trailer. now, if the trailer was not full, then as soon as the trailer was pulled off the loading dock, the top packages tumbled 12feet into the belly of the trailer, possibly bouncing off of the roller-rack on the way. if the trailer was full, then the packages were leaning against the door of the trailer when it was opened, and they tumbled 12feet onto the concrete dock.
there are, of course, other possibilities, like the truck hauling your boxes was in an accident, but these are the most common causes that i ever saw for severely dammaged packages.
don't give up. UPS is uberstubbern, but a lawsuit is more costly than a settlement, and the damage to the outside of the packages is evidence enough that they were mishandled. UPS cannot make a solid claim that the outer package was not good enough quality, because it is the responsibiliy of the check-in counter worker to reject boxes that are obviously sub-standard.
best of luck.
ahhahahahah, that was the funniest thing i've read all day, dunno why but it's given me an lol++
Right after the UPS strike years ago, I ordered a laser printer. When it got there, the box made yours look like it was brand-spanking new. It had been abused so much that the entire cardboard box had become completely soft - but the printer survived. How?
When it was shipped, the company used an oversize box, sprayed expanding foam into a plastic garbage bag, and put that in the bottom of the box. Then they put the printer in, and did another foam-filled bag on top. The result was a printer that was completely surrounded in form-fitting foam. Depsite the horrendous abuse the gorillas at UPS dished out, the printer was fine, and still works fine today.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
I used to work for UPS, unloading trucks. You'd work for 4 hours only, because that was all you could take. The job was quick, dirty, and very physical. Completely unsupervised.
The packages in the trucks are stacked to the top - about 10 feet, and a roller track lead to the rear of the containter. You were supposed to take packages from the top first and send them down the roller track, but most people pulled them from the middle until a wall of boxes came crashing down, and you'd have a low, handy pile to pull from. Falls from 10 feet to the floor were constant.
And this was only one tiny aspect of the process. Really rough handling. And, as stated before, packages with 19 fragile stickers got the worst treatment. Unless you were 8 feet tall, you couldn't keep the unloading schedule without this kind of behavior. I'm not, so I quit. This was 15 years ago, and I'm still not tall enough.
Not sure about bulletproofing here, but...
iMac plastic is nowhere near invulnerable. I've cut apart a rev D (building a flat profile box with it after the monitor went bad) and played with the plastics. It's not that structurally solid. Three (but not two) foot drop with a brick dented it pretty bad, left small cracks.
The Graphite G4 case is another story. I'd gutted a box (I was doing some stuff with the MB and replacing most of the other parts with upgraded components) and accidentally knocked the case down a concrete stairwell. (Don't ask.) Went chasing after it (no power supply in it at that time, but I didn't want to lose the hinging case) and found it seemingly undamaged. Got curious, tried to damage one of the top "leg" loops by hanging the case by the loop over a steel strut and bringing a hammer, then a crowbar, then a sledge down on it. It ended up looking a bit scuffed, but...
I have a Quicksilver G4 at work. If anything, it seems to be made of tougher materials than the Graphite. I have no idea what the B&W is made of, but it looks and feels flimsier on close inspection than the later models.
I've also seen (not participated in) unscheduled stress tests on one of the colorful iBook models. I swear they are invincible when closed. Certainly, any laptop that survives getting bounced over a second story balcony by two scrapping little girls without any detectable issues (I don't understand how the HD survived!) deserves marks.
I'd be curious how the compact ice iBook would fare by comparison.
I've seen, on the other end of the spectrum, a compaq plastic minitower cave when a rather large guest of the owners sat on top of it. Did't damage the mobo, but the power supply got tweaked (the aluminum frame's top bent into it) and had to be replaced, as did the case and the CD-Rom (this was several years ago).
-- Still waiting for the Nike endorsement
did you ship it ground?
Yes, ground. It's called UPS standard, though (I'm guessing it's different because it's an int'l package). I entered the same values (weight, size, insured value), and UPS standard was cheaper to Montreal than UPS ground is to California (again from NY).
remember folks, UPS is pronounced 'oops!'.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Sun used to have this thing about making equipment cases out of 4mm steel with reenforcing bars inside the cases. We have a few SparcStation2's lying around at work, and I have jumped up and down on them trying to break them (don't ask :) Nothing at all happens, and I weigh about 200lbs. I would imaging that you can drop them a fair bit without case damage too :)
VME Bus and the Sun386's are also models which I suspect would go thru even UPS quite well.
I am a rather avid amateur astronomer, and so had lusted for many years after an Astro Physics 155mm EDFS apochromatic refractor. I got on the waiting list to get on the waiting list way back in 1994, was able to place my order in 1995, and 20 months later, my new telescope was ready to ship. It was well-packed, and prominently marked ADULT SIGNATURE REQUIRED.
UPS left it on the porch. I lived at the time in the middle of Hollywood, CA, and the porch was three feet from the street, and the largish, longish box was plainly visible to passersby.
Fortunately it was still there when I got home from work. It wasn't the money that bugged me, the shipment was insured for full replacement value. But had it been stolen, two and a half years' wait would have been down the tubes, and I'd have been at the back of the line again.
I have avoided UPS ever since. FedEx is the way to go. They have never disappointed me, nor have they ever delivered a package that required a signature, without obtaining one.
I recently shipped a computer via UPS from Kelowna (in the interior of BC) to Vancouver, BC. Like the guy in the story, I wrapped it in bubble wrap, styrofoam and thick boxes.
When the computer arrived at it's destination, it looked very similar to yours. Upon opening the box, there was even external damage evident to the case of the computer, including chipped corners on the plastic front, as well as a dent and deep scrape on one side.
I opened up the case only to find the fan and heat sink dangling from the motherboard. The processor's core had been chipped, the motherboard scratched, and the video card beat up as well.
The system was a new one intended for business use in Vancouver. Having it DOA put a serious damper on the business in question. Fortunately it was insured.
With the promise of insurance money coming, I ordered replacements for the broken parts, but made the mistake of having them shipped UPS as well. Intent on minimizing the hassle to the customer, I ordered parts from within Vancouver and paid $20 extra for guaranteed overnight shipping. No damage this time, but 2 days late on a guaranteed overnight delivery, where the distance involved was somewhere about 40km!
In the end, it took about 3 months to see any of the insurance money from UPS. They were extremely uncooperative, sending two adjustors who had no clue of each other, asking the same questions, and filing two sets of independent paper-work, which further delayed the process!
Unfortunately, there are tales of horror for just about every shipping company... it doesn't matter if you go UPS, Purolator or FedEx, you're gambling when you send sensitive equipment...
This would be an interesting experiment for someone in here with a friend on the opposite side of the country from him/her and a little extra disposable income:
Prepare two identical boxes like this: Put an old Yellow Pages [of a decently-sized city] or something about that heavy into a box just large enough to hold it, seal that box, then pack that inside another, larger box, padded carefully as if it were a stereo component or something.
Mark one box "FRAGILE," and maybe "GLASS" on every side, in huge letters with the thickest, blackest marker you've got. Underline it. Twice. Don't put anything special on the other. Ship them a week apart to your friend across the country via UPS Ground. See if they really do purposely beat the shit out of packages marked "Fragile."
With proper documentation, photos, maybe even video, this could make for an interesting school project/web site/thing to send to your local TV station's "consumer advocate"/thing to send to a network newsmagazine show.
~Philly
This is probably what they were pointing out.
It totally sucks what happened to this guy, and I hope he's compensated in some way. Hopefully the /. effect will reach the UPS PR people and they'll realize that it would cost them less to make things right with him than lose the faith and business of many in the /. community.
But on another note, I would never imagine shipping something to myself in a move. Maybe it's because I've never moved interstate, much less international, but I just am too attached to my stuff to think of it being handled by complete strangers. Packing the box is one thing, but packing the vehicle is another entirely. UPS trucks bounce around quite a lot and I don't think things are very well secured in there. They should be more careful, but I'm not willing to risk my computers on good faith.
And yet another note... My parents recently moved and what my dad did was buy a 6x12' enclosed trailer for $2000. When we're done with it (it's proven very useful) he'll sell it for $1800 no sweat. We're lucky that we have a Jeep that can tow it, and a place we can keep it when we're not using it. But with those two conditions satisfied we've managed to save a lot of money while ensuring that our stuff is handled carefully.
My Karma was at 49, then they switched to words. All that work for nothing!
Add two glasses to the box that hit each other when it is moved and write 'glue' or some other fluid on it.
Employees may like to break a fragile computer, but no one likes to clean up the floor of glue or what else may leak out.
A few months ago, I took a tour of a shipping company that I will not name but will refer to as FooBar Inc.
The tour was at night, when shipping companies come alive and really start moving things. The tour was fun (seeing the shipping crates, all the people running around like crazy, etc) until I got to one of the sorting wharehouses. The packages to be sorted would be pulled into the wharehouse where people would go through each package and THROW it onto one of three conveyor belts. The topmost belt was about 5 feet high, the middle at about 3 and the bottom on the ground. I was totally shocked to see the the people doing the sorting THROW (not toss) printers, iMac's, monitors, tv's and other fragile equipment onto the belts. Sometimes they would miss and the package would fall to the floor, ignored until someone came around, picked it up and tossed it onto the wrong belt. Higher up in the wharehouse, where the smaller packages where sorted, the sorters would also throw the packages into the wrong chutes, toss the packages on top of the equipment or onto the floor.
Now, I'm not blaming the sorters (completely). They are payed minimum wage to do a horribly shitty and boring job. I do blame FooBar Inc for not paying these people right or not doing more checks to see how things are running.
After the tour, I never shipped anything the same way again. Recently, I've been either having a packing and shipping store do it for me. If I don't do that I pack the item in multiple boxes (usually 2 or 3) with little styrofoam peanuts between each box. It's a complete pain in the ass to pack (especially larger objects) but it seems to do the trick.
If you want something shipped right, don't ship it, take the package to the destination yourself.
Geoffeg
Back when tape drives cost $2000, backed up 10mb and weight 15lbs we got an INSURED order in from a supplier. Very, very squished, which was amazing considering these things were built like tanks.
Any way the UPS adjuster says if it were packaged right yadda yadda yadda... things looked bad - then right there in front of everyone and the adjuster, in walks our UPS driver and says....
Hey isn't that the package we ran over with the tractor trailer ?
Ka-Ching - wrote us the check on the spot.
this is a valid argument
If you order from a buisness, and the box and/or contents inside look obliterated, tell the buisness who made the product.
Awhile back some guy ordered a poster from Bungie. The box looked like shit. Utterly horrible. There wasn't even any packaging in the box, just the poster. So the guy took pictures and mailed them to Bungie.
Bungie put it up on bungie.net and said that the shipper "got in trouble". Whatever that means, but point being, shipping companies are more likely to listen to milti-million dollar companies than just one person.
This guy just wants to give a heads up to a group of people that probably move more computers than any other group of people. Of course, in typical slashdolt fashion, the majority of people can only tell him how he should have done something other than what he did, and that he is an idiot. This could have happened to any of us. So, instead of using our commonalities for good and maybe getting UPS to be accountable, the incredibly self-absorbed /.'er turns on this poor guy who went from having 3 kick ass comps to none. Nice going. You all make me sick.
Do a google search before posting.
i worked for ups for about 8 years. they do an incredible volume each day, often measured in terms of 100K packages per shift (3 or so shifts per day in the big hubs). everyone, everywhere (in the usa at least), every day is touched by their business. such volumes beget macro policy. and bigass conveyor belts. how many times i crawled on my stomach across a 5' wide belt to break up a logjam of packages.....
with my feet........kicking and screaming at the packages who were fucking up my evening.
So, yeah there are acceptable levels of loss to them. but maybe not to you or me. here's a few tips for when using ups (or anyone else) is how you are going to go:
(1) if you can't - and I mean this - if you can't literally drop kick the box with your full strength out into the street and expect it to survive- its not packed for all conditions it might meet inside their system. double pack the equipment: pack with padding etc. then put it into a bigger box and surround it with packing material so it stays CENTRALLY SUSPENDED within. then tape the living shit out of every seam on the box and roll tape as a contiguous strap around the box. applying tape is not done like scotch tape limply applied , i'm talking the thick, clear plastic stuff. attach it and pull it TIGHT! seal it as you work around the box. nice high pitched noises come from the roll as you run around the box with it. The finished product should feel solid when pressed at any point, a bit of packing overpessure giving a slight plump to the outer cardboard. nothing should move when shaken. irregularities like a bad corner or a tear in the side can hang it up on a conveyor belt corner and cause jams. then it gets squashed as several thousand crates of crap press it into the metal retaining wall and the belt slips past underneath.
(1a) never ever leave your HDD in the cases. never. pack them with you, theys small.
(2) never ship GROUND if your stuff is tender. pay more and get 2nd day air, it goes through quicker and more careful channels, closer tabs are kept on its well-being.
(3) the people who actually READ the addresses on your box literally have an avalanche of crap falling on them. they are expected to produce! meaning dispose of/route those 'parcels' to the tune of several thousand per hour at times. so they just glance at a package and look for the zip code mostly. make it BIG! BIG BIG BIG! and easy to read. this alone will keep it moving, possibly get it selected out of the bunch early; better odds. write it on the flip side too.
I have seen guys get pissed off AT A PACKAGE and throw it from the high scaffold to the concrete floor 30 feet below. because it irritated them. see?
nice handwriting or a sweet little ups provided label doesn't go nearly as far as a BIG BLACK MARKER, permanent style.
some things can't be helped. like one time i was backing a semi trailer up to an unload door. the packages are stacked inside those semi's so tight there is almost no airspace. but the load can shift in transit and things can get loose....
so as i backed up, the entire back row -13'6" high in the sky, came out and i couldn't see it. after it all hit the ground i ran over a monitor. THEN i noticed the neat *PoP*ing noise and went back to inspect things. happens each and every day.
but that was a while back, and i bet it wasn't yours.
nor mine.
I have ceased dealing with UPS in any way, shape, or form. Not because of beat up boxes but due to that brokerage fee thing.
I ship a $75 good from the US to Canada via FedEx. They charge me $13US and that is it. I pay the taxes to the FedEx driver and away I go.
With UPS I pay $9 shipping + taxes, then a week later I get a nice lovely brokerage bill in the mail for $30.
To date, after a dozen transactions with FedEx I have yet to pay anymore than the shipping + taxes no sign of a brokerage fee. I have delt with UPS about five times and have had to pay brokerage every single time. Not cheap either. Always around $30.
How on earth did the RCA jacks get bent?
This is a joke post just to get attention.
Hey slashdot editors, I've got a bridge to sell ya.
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
My company ships iMacs all the time all over the States. When we shipped UPS Ground we'd always get paperweights on the receiving end. But when we ship UPS 2-day for some reason everything is fine. Now we use Pelican cases filled with foam. Fed-Ex is the worst. We had several insurance claims with them and after chasing my tail for weeks I finally gave up and switched to UPS. I have a friend that used to work at Fed-Ex and he told me stories of people playing touch football with smaller packages and for some reason some of the workers would give an extra kick to any boxes labeled "Fragile".
i shipped 3 computers and a stereo component system via mailbox etc. in all it cost around $800 fully insured. after receiving the packages all of my computers were very mangled. they actually bent the case on one of them. broke my cdr... even my pII processor was rattling around in the case.
so what did i get for my money and confidence in them? absolutely nothing. i will never use them again.
I remember once driving through a mini-mall parking lot in Austin, TX and noting 3 UPS trucks parked next to each other. At the time I was waiting for a couple of demo machines to come back from a trade show in California (shipped via UPS). The machines were a day or two late (stuck in Austin somewhere, according to UPS tracking), so I was kinda on the lookout for UPS trucks.
As I drove by them, I noticed all three had their back doors wide open, and the delievery folks scampering around in the back of the trucks. To my abject horror, they were all digging around in trashed, open boxes on the floor of their trucks, trying to put God knows what back into the poor remnants of the boxes. It was terrible. I raced back to the office, and UPS had already been there with my machines (all okay, thank goodness).
--
Mando
I've had the following problems with UPS so far.
1. One totally eradicated full tower case. It was never delivered, nor reported damaged. It took me two weeks of hounding them, and I got no answer. Finally, I called the seller (http://www.tcwo.com - *great* place.) and they beat the living crap out of UPS to find out what happened, and then sent me a new case, free of charge.
2. A soundcard and cd-rom drive sent to Seattle. I'm in Pennsylvania. Tracking showed that it arrived at the distribution center an hour from my home. "Yay, they'll be here tomorrow." Nope. Two days later, tracking showed them in Seattle. What the hell? They never came back from Seattle. Once again, I called the company that sold me the goods - they happily griped about UPS, then sent me a new cd-rom drive, and a *better* soundcard, free of charge.
Hmm. Maybe I should use UPS more often, it gets me free upgrades to hardware..
Slap one of these on your packages to see if it's been abused during transit: http://www.pitrone.com/dropntellprices.html
Helps keep your shipper honest!
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
Having worked at UPS for a short while, I must tell you ***NEVER*** to mark anything as "fragile", or "carefule" unless you plan on paying to have it shipped via next day air. Packages such as this stick out and are subject to
-dropping
-kicking
-opening for goodies (free stuff) inside
-jumping on
-smashing large(and small) lead poles through
-etc
Moral of the story: don't ever ship UPS unless you are willing to ship with lots of insurance and go by air.
My mother-in-law sent a box of irreplacable things via UPS. Like my husband's childhood teddy bear. A photo album from birth to now of her beloved youngest son. A quilt she herself made (and she can't make any more due to arthritis). An heirloom deviled egg dish (yes, there is such a thing-but you only find it in the South). You name it. 2 whole boxes of such stuff. Uninsured.
However, she was told at the Jackson, MS, depot that she was not allowed to close the 2 boxes--a UPS person had to do that. Dutifully, my extremely gullible mother-in-law hands over her 2 open boxes to get sent off to me.
Fast forward 2 weeks after I receive the boxes. She is talking about how I haven't said how I liked my egg dish and cookie mix. Bells go off on my head, as the box was rather strangely empty and the quilt had been covered in chocolate chips, and I had only gotten one box. Evidently, she had actually sent 2--some low-life had taken out what s/he wanted (some of the pictures were missing, and 2 photo albums had been "combined" into one.
I had a quilt, and one Xmas present. Some idiot had taken the heirloom deviled egg dish (causing _my_ mother, who is not AS southern as my mother-in-law, to HOWL with laughter thinking of THAT gift getting explained to a grandmother/brother/girlfriend). I was extremely offended, and got designated to call UPS.
The conversation went something like this:
"Yes, I need customer service. Yes, ma'am, I'm missing over half of shipment number XYZ, and would like to speak to the supervisor of the Jackson, MS, depot about what I consider a theft."
Customer Rep: "Ma'am, what was in the box?"
"Well, let's see, the usual irreplacible, priceless objects such as my husband's childhood teddy bear, a photo album tracing from his birth to high school, an heirloom piece of glassware.."
The customer service lady groans.
I didn't get off the phone until I had an issue number, her name, and her phone number, and had assured her my father-in-law was returning to the depot the next day to "speak" with the supervisor. In case you don't know Southernese, "speak" is a pretty serious word.
He got a personal apology from the supervisor about the theft. And eventually, a $100 check (all uninsured packages are worth).
But sometimes, I giggle to myself, thinking of the guilt someone's carrying over giving a stolen egg dish to their grandmother.
That monitor thing sounds really interesting. If you have any pictures or documentation on it, I would love to see it, and I'm sure that it would make a great /. article. If you have any info handy, please drop me a line at drbork@pottedmeat.hotmail.com without the potted meat.
Brant
Argle. Bargle.
I worked pre-load at UPS for a bit. I was told to get a 50-foot trailer emptied in 30 minutes or else. The trailer had just come from the Bay Area and was filled with Apple and HP merchandise. Following in my co-workers footsteps, I *literally* threw the boxes down onto the skate (rollers in the center of the trailer) to get the thing emptied. There was no time for gentle lifting.
I was amazed that Apple and HP could stay in business; I figure that all the RMA's for damaged equipment would have bankrupt them for sure!
"Just because you're a genius doesn't make you a smart guy!" --Narrator, PowerPuff Girls
"Just because you're a genius doesn't make you a smart guy!" -- Narrator, Powerpuff Girls
I stopped using them years ago, both because of their handling of packages and because of their use of digital signature pads (which leave you with no recourse when they claim that they have your signature). I found Fedex and DHL to be considerably better.
There are a few things that he should have changed before shipping...
First, never, ever, leave components (if it can be helped) installed on the motherboard...bad idea.
Second, the box looks like it has no support whatsoever. I see hundreds of boxes everyday that have to be rewrapped, and taped up. People do not use the correct materials when shipping something they do not want ruined. Thousands of Dells go through UPS everyday and I cannot remember a single time their boxes have simply "gave out" to load stress, etc...
Third. No insurance? That is a bad idea, there can be any number of things that can happen during shipping that can obliterate your computer. Trust me, get it...and if possible send it air, MUCH less wear and tear on the box.
There are many things that can ruin a box during shipping. The most common is when the box is actually en route to destination, in the trailer. The box most likely will have a few hundred pounds above it, and to top it off its in a moving trailer. After a few hundred miles of bumps and turns if your box isn't built to withstand the pressure, it's gone.
Also include a list of what is in the box (parts and all). Make sure to form fit the box, don't allow anything contained in the box to move around, stuff paper in there if you have to.
If you think FedEx will do any better...good luck.
That's because they get part of it there, part of the time.
My former employer (who must remain nameless) went from using FedEx for all shipments, to UPS. Since I was doing hardware technical support for them, I got to hear about the results. I will *NEVER* ship anything by UPS again. Not in this lifetime. The incidence of broken equipment skyrocketed. Even to the point that a large rackmounted system that was packed in a wooden moving crate on top of a pallet, had a forklift driven THROUGH the crate, the system and then out the other side.
"Suppose you were an idiot..... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeate myself."
My friend and i were going back to the office after a lunch break and at the bottom of the off ramp was a brand new dell pc in its box. It was just sitting there. Appartanly the driver was driving around with the gate open, that or he just did not feel like delivering it.
Even if you do use original packaging including molded styrofoam, those clever UPS folks will find a way to damage your shipment. While the damage is likely to be less than what this guy photographed, it's still damage.
We received a rackmount APC Uninteruptable Power Supply (overloaded abbreviations!) via UPS ground. The front plate is steel, about 5mm (about 3/16") thick. It was severaly bent, and we had to straighten it with a benchtop vice.
I've shipped a computer in the original packaging via UPS ground. When it arrived, some case screws had popped out, the case frame was bent, and the plastic front had broken pieces. Needless to say the case didn't really fit right after that.
I've never had damage with FedEx ground, though I've had two computers shipped that way (in original packaging). I had to pick one up from the FedEx distribution location because they messed up the delivery (never put it on the truck), and the box was banged up a little, but the case was fine.
Whenever a vendor doesn't offer FedEx ground, I write a note requesting they consider it.
-Paul Komarek
u stupid american wuss, all u do is blame us for your shit.. fuck u.. and fuck your stupid ass country, bunch of bigots and assholes, take your shotgun and shoot yourself and do the world a lot of good.. fuck you
The box(es) you show on the page are way too small to comfortably hold the items you are shipping, and they are not NEARLY strong enough. You probably used boxes which are not new (ie, they've been weakened) and are cheap single wall, probably rated for maybe 30-60 pounds new?
You are shipping items that are as fragile as glass, and weigh 40-80 pounds. You need at LEAST new double wall cardboard boxes with a minimum of 6-10 inches of clearance on each side of the item filled with both a durable packing material(dense foam, cardboard, etc), and a light soft material (light foam, bubble wrap, etc. Then you need to INSURE each item for what it would cost you to replace it new. If they don't offer insurance on a particular service, then use a higher grade service or another company altogether.
It's sad to see when someone suffers the consequences of their inexperience, but honestly, you could have done better. You were probably worried about the packing job before you got them back.
Blame UPS all you want. They could have done better as well, but this is par for the course, and you finally got a good look at the lay of the land.
-Adam
Yea.. I'd say aftering seeing that damage you can say two things:
- FUCK UPS! (and)
- UPS are Fuckups....
Both sentances use the same letters, both say two different things and yet both are complete accurate....
Fucking jackoffs..
When I interned on the west coast this summer, I had my computer and monitor shipped over, by going to Mailboxes Etc, having them package it all up, and then shipping it via UPS. When I received it, I plugged in my monitor and nothing happened.
:D (Didn't happen though)
Luckily, I had put $200 insurance on my old 17" monitor. Even luckier, I got a nice lady from UPS on the phone who was too lazy to send an inspector out to view the broken monitor, wrote it off as "Mailboxes Etc screwed up", and sent me a nice check for $200.
When I made the trip back, I put like $3000 worth of insurance on my PC and pretty much prayed that UPS would drop-kick my computer.
-- jchenx
Teamsters. 'Nuff said.
Literally or figuratively. Personally, I'd grab a kalashnikov and.. well never mind.. :)
You kinda gotta figure he didn't pack it real well if he had Tupperware in the box with it.
Not that that absolves UPS, as it takes an act of god's mother to break a piece of Tupperware. It probably got skewered with a forklift or munched by conveyor belt.
I worked in the shipping business in college (not for neither UPS nor FedEx) and I think that it is a bad idea to ship anything of value without insurance.
He should have sought service elsewhere or spoken with his personal insurance provider. In the end it is his own fault. Sad.
(/local/home/curiosity)-#who -u|grep thecat|cut -c 44-49|xargs kill -9
Yes, I HAVE worked for UPS! And I'll tell you what happened -
;)
Your boxes were put on the top of a large stack of boxes inside either a trailer or railroad box car, probably at each stop.
Unloaders have to push 45 boxes a minute out of that trailer/box car.
The Unloaders have a little trick you learn early and use often in order to make those boxes flow out of the back of that trailer/box car like water out of a dam.
You reach up about a foot above eye level and start pulling, making sure the whole stack leans with it. Once you reach critical pull you let gravity take over... with a little luck some those boxes will bounce out of the back and onto the rollers for you, the rest you kick into place and push like hell.
Sometimes you can get 60+ boxes a minute that way. Sorry folks, but getting the package to it's destination on time is more important than getting it there in one peice. See "Cast Away" for more.
The theory that 'fragile' boxes, or any of your boxes are singled out is more myth than fact, there's just not any time to discriminate!
Ctimes2
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
I ship a moderate amount of stuff, and the packaging service I use (an independant packing company) will no longer even accept insurance payments for packages they pack for you to ship via UPS? Why? Because they got caught in the middle of UPS insurance claims enough times (well, it didn't have to happen too many times for them to bail) to make offering the service a poor survival strategy.
Now, these guys do a good job packing stuff (peanuts? Just say "No!"), using bubble wrap and even double boxing stuff that is especially valuable and/or heavy. Nonetheless, when a claim came in on something they packed, UPS refused to honor the claim, because the item was not in the "original shipping container". Thus, a new policy was born.
So, I've become somewhat a USPS convert. I don't know how easy it is to collect on insurance claims from them -- but I haven't had to (yet), and haven't really heard too much from others (yet) either.
I recently shipped around $3000 worth of electronic music equipment from Boston to Sweden using UPS International. I went out and bought a _lot_ of comforters at a local thrift sotre and packed the boxes so they would bounce (literally). My packages arrived in pristine condition (although 1 month late), and the best part is, UPS somehow managed to _forget_ to charge me the $350 shipping fee. Thanks UPS!
I will agree that UPS is a less-than-par shipping servicve. From looking at the pictures, however, I really don't see a great packing job. I do see a alot of damage. The boxes are huge, and look like they full of air on many sides.
If I were ever in need of shipping my boxen, I would make sure that they were not packed like these were. Smaller boxes, more padding.
About three months ago UPS left a DVD player (brand new, in the box, shipped from Buy.com I think) on my doorstep. It was adressed to some dude on another street a few blocks from mine, but with the same house number.
I contemplated taking it to the intended recipient but never did. It's still in my downstairs closet, I never opened it. Maybe one of these days I will (already had a *much* better DVD player).
The only thing I ship via UPS these days are cigarretes. Everything else goes through FedEx.
Back in the Seventies, my Dad did research at the Texas A&M University Nuclear Reactor. As such, he had access to a lot of warning signs and stickers with the universal nuclear radiation symbol and CAUTION: RADIOACTIVE MATERIAL on them. Whenever he need to send anything fragile by UPS, he would put one of these stickers on it. Needless to say, anything in one of these boxes was not abused by UPS.
All Slashdotters know that UPS workers are the most frequently used male performers in pornographic features. If they're making the beaucoup bucks from their side job, why would they care about your package? (pun definitely intended)
You never hear Fedex employees being in porn now, do ya!
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
I worked in one of UPS's shipping yards out in New York state for about 4 years. My suggestion, and that usually goes with all parcel carries, is that any packages you ship that are valuable or fragile (or both) should be shipped air, as in Next Day Air or Second Day Air. It's expensive, but I've seen first hand how packages get handled. When shipped by air there's less human interaction with the packages since they're usually loaded into big containers. The containers are stacked into the airplanes and flown to their destination where they're unpacked. With ground, a package can go through 2 or 3 hubs before reaching its destination. And like I said, it's not necessarily a UPS thing, it's all parcel carriers.
Let's all Slashdot UPS.com. On 3. One Two ...
Well actually I work for Lynden Air Frieght, who holds the contract for UPS canada in several rural areas. Now let me tell you, there are numerous ways a shipment can be damaged. Most likely during the different transit points it was stacked poorly and met its fate. There are many days when trailers of UPS frieght show up at my location with the boxes in a semi trailer having all shifted and fallen some 8 feet in just a 2 hour run. Imagine all the oppurtunity it has in some 30 hours or more to fall. That doesn't include other possibilties. One of my favorites I do, but never to big boxes is kicking or chucking the frieght around when sorting it to its different destinations. Its just a matter of being and a hurry and that is the fastest way to sort. Never seen it down with something as big a computer but who knows.
I worked at UPS and though boxes are thrown around alot, they are cought carefully. writing fragile on abox means exactly that your box will be placed on top aswell as not thrown around. shipping with insurance is a definate necessity for any kind of expensive equipment but one thing you should know is that insurance does not cover improperly packed equipment. so the moral of the story is bring expensive equipment to somewhere like MailBox Etc to have it shipped thus dissalowing you any liability
How about drivers who don't care to ring your doorbell or check if you're actually home?
My first experience with this was with a $500 package that was late by two days... and then a week... and then a week-and-a-half. The tracking system said "delivery made" but there was no package. Repeated calls to the service center revealed nothing until finally one day a rep said "there's a note in the system that says 'green box' so do you have a green box around your house?"
A light bulb appeared above my head, and I went outside with a look of disbelief on my face. I found the box (containing a high-end RAID controller) at the bottom of one of my *recycle bin* at the side of the house, beneath tons of cardboard and plastic. Two more days and it would have been recycled. What sort of idiot delivers a package to a recycle bin?
Well, the second time this sort of thing happened (system says delivered, but I haven't seen the package), I *asked* the rep if there were any delivery notes in the system. This time the note was "tree" and I found a box containing a Sun 3/80 *up in the branches of my 14' pine tree* in the dead of winter. The driver actually seemed to have climbed the fence next to the tree to place the box in it. They're sturdy branches, but it still seems ridiculous to me.
Calls to UPS about these incidents resulted in the following explanation: sometimes when the individual isn't home and the address is difficult to reach, the driver may leave the package on the premesis in a "non-obvious" area so that he doesn't have to return. I guess a recycle bin and a tree are UPS's idea of protecting me from thieves... Of course all of this ignores the fact that I was home all day on the day that BOTH of these deliveries were supposedly made...
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
The way UPS and FedEx employees drive those trucks around here, it seems like they hardly value their lives, let alone our packages.
-- dR.fuZZo
The first and last time I used UPS was when I bought a Dell and they shipped it UPS.
We weren't home when it arrived. Did they leave a note? No. Did try calling us and leaving a message. No.
They gave the $5K computer to my neighbours.
Life is like a web application. Sometime you need cookies just to get by.
You should have seen the 19" sony monitor that I bought last year... the thing was drop kicked from TN to WA. Apparently it wasn't "packed properly" for that type of abuse... err, shipment
I'm curious as to why you decided to ship your equipment across the border instead of carrying? Less taxes to pay or what?
What?
The last case I had delivered had been hit so hard on the corner that it broke some of the rivets that held it together.
~Ben
http://www.snakebyte.biz
FedEx has always been the best for me. Most of the vendors I've dealt with online (pricewatch and newegg) ship FedEx. I just got a new motherboard this morning from CA. I placed the order yesterday. FedEx picked up the package at 3 PST, and had it to my house at 9:45 EST the next morning. It didn't cost me an arm and a leg either. You just can't beat that!
Um, this is my sig.
Recently, I (almost) recieved a letter via fedex. They left a note on the door to come get it as they had already tried to deliver it.
Saturday, we went to get it and they had already given it to someone else who came in and gave them the routing number for it.
I guess if you are looking for a new computer all you need to do is go to the local fedex and pick up any appropriately sized boxes that happen to be around...
I used to work for a small OEM and VAR company. I recall once they were taking an RMA on a largish comapaq server from TX. When it arrived the package was so badly damaged that you couldnt remove the drives, the case so too bent. I don't remember which shipping company managed to do this, but it was definately FUBAR'd. And there we were talking about a $10,000 server.
Not the PowerTower Pro - best damn Mac ever made
much sympathies
Seriously I just shipped a $1200 laptop monday morning cross country with UPS....but I got insurance through OfficeMax, the only way they would do it. Hope is gets there or I'm screwed.
we shall see.
dammit.
-AC who will use FedEX next time.
Here's my story - Years ago my wife purchased a $300 HP Calculator as a present for my brother in law who was working on his engineering degree at the time.
Our old house had a yard and 6 foot fence encircling the house. Inside that yard was my beloved Alaskan Malamute (Dogzilla).
Normal UPS guy was great - saw Dogzilla would put packages in garage - outside fence - whereever DZ could not reach it.
x-mas help (moron) assigned to deliver said caluculator came-saw-tossed. HP landed in the waiting jaws of DZ. Amazing what a big dog can do to a caclulator.
Wife arrived home @ 12am and promptly woke up the UPS supervisor. We had a new calc on the way the next day. Guess what... Moron does same thing - 2 more times! That caclulator cost UPS more than 1k... Go figure.
It was pretty priceless to see my brother-in-law's face when he opened his present and it was a chewed almost-beyond-recognition calc. He got the final replacement 2 weeks later.
"Smile, listen, agree, and then do whatever the fuck you wanted to do anyway." ~Robert Downey Jr.
Tupperware has a lifetime replacement guarantee. If it truly is TUPPERWARE and not some rubbermaid or walmart-branded joke, then just call up your friendly Tupperware representative and let her know you need to replace a broken item. you'll have it, or an equivalent replacement, shipped to you post haste.
I know this questions probably has been asked, but did this guy pack three systems and a monitor in one box?
If so, the damage is well, to be expected. I've worked for various computer companies, and the rule is 1 piece of equipment, one box. Period. Looks to me like something shifted around and banged up other stuff.
On another note a few years back I worked part-time at UPS (Christmas Season) you have to take into consideration that while rare, sometimes packages fall off the conveyor belts, which can be as high as 20 feet up.
Yes, marking the package "fragile" "handle with care" or even "Glass" will invariably result in the box getting kicked or punished worse, just to see how well it was packed.
"Fortune, Fame, Mirror Vain, Gone Insane..... But The Memory Remains...
I've had a few really bad experiences with UPS...
At a previous company, we ordered one of those metal cabinets. The cabinet came unassembled, unfortunatly the box sported a wide dusty tire track that we later found out belonged to a forklift... The cabinet company ended up shipping us another one, because we couldn't get the holes to match (I wonder why...)
At my current company, we make 1U servers. One day our RMA department received one of our boxes from a customer who refused to accept it from UPS. The shipping box sported a truck tire track(!) and was bent at an odd angle. Apparentally, the box had fallen off an UPS truck, and was run over by the truck behind it. The UPS driver retrieved the box and delivered it anyways. The case was crushed. We had to saw the screw heads off, and use a crowbar to get the case off. The mainboard was bent, though only a few capacitors had popped off. The powersupply was crushed, we didn't dare plug it in. The hard drive was bent(!), as were the DIMMS (looked like a frowning mouth.) We had UPS pay for a new server, and shipping via FedEx to the customer. I wish we'd taken pictures of that thing....
I avoid UPS as much as I can. I've never had a problem with the US Postal Service or FedEx.
These assholes deserve to be punished, physically, for their misdeeds.
A year and a half ago I moved from Atlanta to Seattle and shipped seven boxes containing all of my stuff. Each box was packed very well, had arrows indicating up, displayed the weights of the boxes (up to 90 pounds for one of the boxes), and was insured apporpriately. Six of the seven boxes arrived with the contents perfectly intact, including my cello. The seventh box contained my CDs and looked like it had gotten dropped in the ocean. UPS gave me promptly the $500 I insured the box for, and I also was able to clean up most of the CDs.
Leave it up to a Mac user to simply throw his machine in a flimsy cardboard box and call it "well packed".
I think God is punishing you, dude.
Despite what EULAs say, most software is sold, not licensed.
We shipped an SLA cased prototype hardware device fedex one year. We called the local fedex office, it had arrived there, they had it, we told them we would come pick it up in a few hours. 3 hours later i show up, and they can't find it. It never appears. The value on the device is something like $20k; it was one of 3 in existence, SLA cased, and we had a convention to demo it at about a week after it arrived. Shipping, in general, sucks.
I'm sure many of you don't know this, but the UPS and FedEx actually use the same planes to carry their packages. The USPS will (in remote locations) delivery FedEx packages, and soon all post offices will have a FedEx drop box.
I am very sorry that your equipment was damaged, but you made some very fatal mistakes.
1) Posted in the UPS center where you shipped your equipment are guidelines for packing matterial and minimum crush-strength box matterial for various size/weight packages. Looking at your pictures I can see that your box did NOT meet those guidelines. I can see this just by looking at the pictures.
2) Insurance for your package would have cost $0.35 per $100. That's only $10.50US to insure your shipment for $3,000. I called and verified this for a Canada-to-US shipment.
3) Remember: Your package rides conveyor belts, slides down shutes, is loaded and unloaded on delivery vans, tractor-trailers, and train cars. It travels thousands of miles along with 10's of thousands of other packages some of which may weigh as much as 177lb's and somebody's pakcage has to be on the bottom of the stack. That's the reality of it.
Here are my suggestions:
1) Buy the insurance (duh!!!!)
2) Pack your stuff like it's going to be air-dropped. You know the packaging your G4 came in? That's how you SHOULD have packed it. If you had it would still be fine. There is a reason a new Dell comes in a box strong enough to support a VW.
There is a reason UPS and other shippers have those packing guidelines posted. And the reason they offer insurance is for the people who don't read the shipping guidelines. Sometimes packages that are done right do get damaged, but not often.
Shippers dont' intentionally harm your packages. The damage most likely occured durring transit in a tractor-trailer or box-car. The employees don't kick and drop packages. They just don't. UPS is VERY consious of this. If you are seen intentionally damaging a package you are FIRED ON THE SPOT. I saw a guy get a written warning for dropping a package just 6 inches. I saw another guy get fired for eating a jolly-rancher candy that fell out of a damaged package.
I'm sorry your equipment was damaged. I know you are upset and I know it sucks when this sort of thing happens. I hope my comments will help you avoid having this happen to you again.
TIP: if you want to ship something and absolutely insure it's safety, ship it in a hard plastic cooler. They come in all sizes and are the most indistructible thing you'll ever find. People ship fragile scientific instruments back and forth in GOTT coolers (with the lits taped down) all the time and they never get damaged. I know you can't get a mid-tower pc in one, but I just thought I'd mention it.
-=-=-=-=- osjedi uses Debian GNU/Linux. -=-=-=-=-
I currently work for UPS, and the sad truth is that we cannot fuck up a parcel that is properly packed. My hub alone ships thousands of Dell and Gateway pieces a day, and I myself personally see several hundred in one 4 hour sort. Both the Dell and Gateway boxes are made of sterner stuff than your average moving box, and both have sturdy moulded styrofoam packing, not peanuts. Bubble wrap will not save something as heavy as a cpu or monitor.
I have seen a Dell monitor box fall three stories without suffering so much as a dented edge. I have seen my coworkers jumping up and down on a Gateway box with the deliberate intention of destroying it, but only leave dirty footprints. I have also seen what happens to boxes when the contents are poorly packed.
UPSers are overworked, and underpaid, and they're Union. Management walks all over them, despite Jimmy Hoffa Jr.'s best efforts to curb them.
Moral of the story, pack well, INSURE EVERYTHING, and never buy Gateway. Dells are ok. (Ok, so I'm biased...)
Society doesn't turn on a dime, but if enough people lean on the steering wheel long enough, it can negotiate a curve.
you shipped a computer in a single packed box. Not to mention you used a Uhaul moving box not a shipping box. Boxes have different properties. you should always use a heavy walled box with hundres of pounds of crush rating.
probably only single packed not double boxed. you use bubble wrap? how about air packet to cushion the blow? styrofoam? UPS has the right to refuse insurance claim on packaging neglicence. Do you see apple shipping G4's out to people in UHAUL boxes? didn't think so.
I just ordered some tire chains for my truck, and they were shipped UPS. All 27lb of chain arrived in pristine condition. I suppose you can't destroy what you can hardly lift. ;)
--Ben
--Ben
I am not an expert at this. If you mess with your own monitor I am not responsible. In fact, one monitor that I messed with started smoking.
Also, this could damage your stereo.
I have only had success with monochrome monitors. The color one is the one that started to smoke.
Ok, so I opened up the Mac and found the wires running to the back of the CRT. There is a pair for horizontal deflection of the beam and a pair for vertical.
If you clip them both, then the beam just hits the center of the screen.
After clipping them, run your speaker wires through them, left to the vetical and right to the horizontal.
When I say through, I mean through the coil on the back of the CRT. I don't mean the stubs of wire connected to the board.
Anyhow, if you splice your speaker wires so you can run the speaker in SERIES with the coil.
If you run them in parallel there might be very little resistance and that could mess with your stereo. However you might get better results that way. Mix and match and maybe put in a POT so you can adjust the amount of deflection and prevent the destruction of your stereo if yo choose to run it in parallel. Parallel seemed to give more deflection. Also, the horizontal and vertical will not deflect the same amount for the same input. You will need to mess with it to get it to look just right. Each monitor is different. You can make a traditional oscilliscope effect if you leave the horizontal wires hooked up to the monitor's board and just hook the vertical wires to the stereo. Some people prefer this.
Anyhow if you have the left side controlling the vertical deflection and the right side controlling the horizontal the beam draws funky roundish patterns.
Put in "Dark Side of the Moon" and enjoy! "Money" looks awesome since the clean stereo separation is clearly visible if you understand how the monitor works.
Ben Harper stuff also looks cool.
My email address is on the Anirak webpage that is linked to. If anyone sends me an e-mail I'll them the winamp pluggin.
Lasers Controlled Games!
Perhaps slashdot might like to have a conversation with her?
My employer (located in West Chester, PA) ended up banning the use of UPS for shipping computers and other fragile equipment. We had a rash of problems -- they seemed to grow considerably worse after the UPS strike a few Decembers back. We use FedEx for rush shipments now.
Our standard method for improvising packaging used to be: wrap the item in garbage bag, tape bag shut. Bag goes in box, surrounded by at least two inches' worth of peanuts. That box goes in an outer box, surrounded by at least two inches of peanuts.
In place of the inner box and peanuts, we now use a custom foaming kit -- the kind that uses a hot compound that foams up upon contact with air, and requires the use of silvery plastic wrap to shape the foaming compound. Of course, the computer/monitor/whatever still ends up sealed in a garbage bag.
About the increase in problems: I wondered whether that was due to angry workers, to changes in work rules (the limit on package size went from 70 pounds to 140, if I recall correctly) or to changes in the work force necessitated by the changes in work rules. After the strike, the inexpressibly cute and fit female UPS driver was replaced by a larger, heftier male; I wouldn't be surprised if UPS replaced their experienced workforce with stronger new hires, who were more inclined to abuse the packages in their care.
As a former UPS worker (I delivered packages during the winter season while a student) it has been my experience that UPS workers are for the most part very considerate of packages. We took great care delivering anything that was obviously a computer, electronic, marked fragile, etc. If a package was damaged on arrival we made sure to make note of it in the delivery record so where the damage happened could be traced. I would also think that this might have happened enroute to the US, non-US facilities tear up more packages. By the looks of things you did not insure your package either. That is probably the least intelligent thing you can do, since you have no legal recourse at all. Packing it yourself may also have been a bad idea. In the future you may want to use a prefessional shipping store where they use things other than styrofoam peanuts. Peanuts suck for holding computers. A computer in a pile of peanuts is not stable and will wreak havoc on the box and itself as there is NO supports. The best way to ship something that heavy is to crate it in wood or use the original styrofoam shipping parts. I have shipped my computers numerous times the latter method via UPS and have never had a problem.
My $.02
"We're all mad here." --Cheshire Cat
My company has had several thousand dollars worth of damage cause by UPS. Not to mention all the unhappy customers that gets the broken boxes and call back to complain. Is UPS doing anything about it? Of course not. Chuckuzzo
This is kinda hypothetical.. but if I were to purchase a monitor and say it was real fuzzy or something and I wanted to ship it back to the manufacturer, and it ended up looking like this computer.... who would pay for the damages?
fedex, airborne or UPS? this is so timely because fedex ground fscked up a package delivery to me today -- a very costly fsck-up.
... i don't want to unfairly slander any company, you see.
get this: fedex ground had my package on a truck, in chicago, sending it (the package) back to the sender in spokane. it (the package) was mistakenly refused at my local package delivery store -- not to name names, but they offer mailboxes, stamps, packaging, etc.
anyway. that package is refused. it's in a truck, sitting in chicago. i call fedex and they tell me they cannot touch the package until it's returned to spokane.
now, mind you, it's HERE IN CHICAGO. i'm HERE IN CHICAGO. but they can't redirect it once it's been refused.
i think the fedex managers ran al gore's recount battle in florida last year.
---
Mindy: "Well...desserts aren't always right." Homer: "But they're so sweet!"
It looks like he padded his equipment really good. That is, if you think he padded his tupperware with his Mac and his PowerTower. Seriously, though, I don't see any stuffing or padding in any of the pictures.
If these pictures are fake, then this guy got really screwed. What idiot would sign for this?
"The only way to learn a new programming language is by writing programs in it." - Brian Kernighan
Eorst eorst eorst.
How Not To Ship Computers
AKA - Don't pack them the same way I did.
I currently work for UPS, and the sad truth is that we cannot fuck up a parcel that is properly packed. My hub alone ships thousands of Dell and Gateway pieces a day, and I myself personally see several hundred in one 4 hour sort. Both the Dell and Gateway boxes are made of sterner stuff than your average moving box, and both have sturdy moulded styrofoam packing, not peanuts. Bubble wrap will not save something as heavy as a cpu or monitor. I have seen a Dell monitor box fall three stories without suffering so much as a dented edge. I have seen my coworkers jumping up and down on a Gateway box with the deliberate intention of destroying it, but only leave dirty footprints. I have also seen what happens to boxes when the contents are poorly packed. UPSers are overworked, and underpaid, and they're Union. Management walks all over them, despite Jimmy Hoffa Jr.'s best efforts to curb them. Moral of the story, pack well, INSURE EVERYTHING, and never buy Gateway. Dells are ok. (Ok, so I'm biased...)
Society doesn't turn on a dime, but if enough people lean on the steering wheel long enough, it can negotiate a curve.
If you care about Linux, there is always the the local LUG.
Is your company running tools written by ma
My condolence to you and your computers.
I feel with you.
Ever see the first "Ace Ventura: Pet Detective"? We *thought* Jim Carrey was just JOKING. :)
I moved from IL down to GA and I had no resources at the time. I had money for a plane and a little money left over to move some of my stuff. I decided that UPS couldn't be *that* bad and packaged my stuff up, sent it all through UPS.
When I get down there 3 of my boxes were damaged heavily. One box was my computer, the case was bent almost in half (The case I had was sturdey as hell). Another box was my DVD player, in which was packaged inside of about a large dresser full of clothes...it was cut in half, literally. The next was my VCR, that was bent sort of in a twizzler fassion.
I still to this day have no clue how they did this, especially since I made sure that my packages were packed as well as possible...after 4 months I got *most* of the money out of them. Suffice to say, I will not be using UPS again.
Please, somebody find a way to beat up on them. I beg you to use some other service. In fact, for those USians, use the good ol' USPS - they are cheap, fast, and even when I moved 20+ large boxes across the country, they didn't break a thing.
Check out http://tinotopia.com/shipping/ for pictures of a largish shipment of Compaq servers that was left out in the rain by one such outfit.
Just as a contrasting story...
I recently oversaw the moving of several hundred thousand dollars of Sun & Cisco kit from a Colocation facility in Georgia to one in Florida.
Total cost, including packaging, shipping, and insurance, was around $6,000
All packaging was custom made -- they stapled together several sheets of cardboard to make a box exactly the right size. Most equipment was double packed... interior box with at least 3-4 inches of blown foam between equipment and walls of box, and then an exterior box... with at least 3 inches of styrofoam peanuts between the two boxes.
Some of the smaller computers (4u high) were packed two to an interior box, with blown foam between, and around all sides. One item (Sun E3500) had a custom wooden crate built, with a combination of solid and blown foam protecting the server.
Items were congregated by size, and then using a combination of metal straps and plastic wrap (like they use at airports) were fastened to wooden pallets. One item, a honking huge (650lbs) Sun Array in it's rack, got it's own pallet.
Everything arrived in good condition... only two small incidents: the threaded feet on the Sun Array cabinet were bent, because they were used to keep it from rolling, and weren't designed for that; and a little bit of blown foam sneaked through the cracks and stuck to a couple of things. No need to argue with the shipping company, or make any insurance claims...
Now, this level of preparation is probably overkill for just a couple of machines. But still... if I were shipping my computers cross country (and I have 8 computers in my personal menagerie), I would use more than bubble wrap and a standard box to hold them. First try would be to get ahold of the original packaging (a tip... if you want to save the original packaging, breakdown the box, and put all of the styrofoam in a plastic bag... easier to put away like that). Second would be to see if there was a packaging company in my city that could make some blown foam packaging. Last would probably be to do something double walled, with styrofoam peanuts around the equipment and between the two boxes.
I also wouldn't use any shipping company for high-ticket items without a decent level of insurance... if they won't give the insurance, use another company.
FWIW, the company that I used for this shipment is Packaging and Shipping Group. No affiliation with them other than as a satisfied customer...
I work at a warehouse, and the UPS guy that usually delivers to me throws boxes that aren't going to our warehouse all over the place, leaves them in the rain while he's finding what he wants, and every other horrible thing you can probably dream up.
Maybe the UPS person handling this package was a raving Microsoftie, and couldn't resist the chance to beat up some perfectly harmless Macs?
--R.J.
Monopoly XP T-shirts!
I hope you used more than bubble wrap or even packing peanuts - when shipping computers always use form-fitting styrofoam, or if not available, that spray-in stuff that hardens up. That'll increase the odds of getting stuff delivered in one piece, but not guarantee - I shipped a computer once with the spray foam, and it was delivered with the processor bouncing around the inside of the case. Still worked, thankfully.
The lesson here: never ship computers - always move them by car.
Salsa Shark. We're gonna need a bigger boat.
A former employer was setting up a VPN with a partner company in another city. Their Linux guy sent me a fully configured gateway for our side of the connection. He shipped it in a box with a few torn off pieces of cardboard as padding. The shipper (FedEx, I think) managed to destroy one of the ethernet cards during shipping. He sent me a replacement the next day, packaged even worse. It got beat up so bad I needed a hammer to get the cover back on the case.
I would be tempted to smash an Apple/Mac myself
A while back I ordered a keybaord through the mail, about a $500 piece of equipment (this was all US).
Of course UPS does not quite understand the concept of "not being at home while I'm at work", and after four times of me calling the 1-800 number and asking them to hold the package then driving every time out to the UPS depot (they're always in the middle of nowhere, aren't they?), after five days they sent it back.
The shipper sent it back to me, and they finally held it for me, but when I finally got it, it looked, literally, like the delivery truck had run over it repeatedly. It was smashed beyond recognition.
The short story is that it took me about 2 months to get this straight with UPS and I did not pay shipping, but it took fucking two months.
I sent it back,
Sue them. That's all that i can think of. SEeing that level of damage to a comptuer almost hurts. Sue them, just sue them. I'd send explosives through but that'll hurt someone.
Just sue the motherF*ckers......
I've had more than my share of UPS horror over the years. Pay for their "insurance" and they refuse to compensate for damage they incurred due to my "inadequate packing." Not only was my packing adequate, the UPS counter staff accepted my shipment and my money. Think they could have informed me of UPS' opinion of my packing prior to destroying it? FINAL NOTE: I used to sell monitors on eBay. Gave up after UPS destroyed 12 out of 20 shipments. (I think my area driver was sabotaging them.) One customer in Florida sent me an e-mail claiming, "The UPS delivery man rolled the 19" IBM monitor you shipped into my home." ROLLED a MONITOR ? UPS no more for me - FEDEX FEDEX FEDEX !!!
10 MD
If you can read you would notice:
"UPS Ground does not insure international shipments"
Yes, the story summary says that.
Unfortunately, it is wrong .
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
Hah. That looks like the shipment I sent to myself when moving from southern California to one of the islands off the coast of Washington. I received my stereo speakers (big ones, 1.5'sqX3'h) broken in half, inside a box with all four corners blown out and the packing missing. Really. I never would have found out what happened, except that it was a small community, and I had a couple of friends who worked for UPS there. They'd actually dropped the box off of the side door of the airplane, hitting the rear edge of the loader, then landing on the tarmac.
But you want to know what the real mistake was? No insurance. No insurance means that the carrier has no liability and no incentive to protect the package. Frankly, if it falls out of the airplane over the ocean, they couldn't care less -- they have already received payment, and anything after that point is a loss. Unless you have insurance.
Judging from the pictures, they spent some extra time on your stuff. Perhaps they chocked the wheels on the 737 with your box?
Jon
I think not...(*poof*)
I live in Houston and I built my sister a computer and had to ship it back to West Texas. It was one of the old style Athlon slot processors. UPS dropped it hard enough for the processor to fall out of the slot. I personally found it rather hard to get the Athlon out of the slot by hand when I wanted to, and I don't know how they got past the releases at the top. Fortunately it appeared to have been dropped flat and there was no other damage done and the PC booted right up after a friend of hers put the processor in on the other side.
Along with the same shipment I sent a 15in IBM monitor, it's colors where off loosing red after being on for about an hour. We had this sytem partialy built and in burn in testing for nearly a month at my apartment (Diablo and Unreal are excelent burn in tools) and the monitor had no problems. Unfortunatly she didn't alert me to this until she had the thing nearly three months. I won a 19" Dell monitor on UBid that came via UPS. The first one the box looked okay but it lost blue after about a week. I shipped it back (about $75) and the supplier sent me a new one. The new one was shipped so poorly that the monitor actually dislodged from the styrofoam packing and the monitor actually had dents on three different cornors and a scuff mark down one of the front edges. This monitor had discoloration left of center. This time I got smart and called UPS, they sent a guy to my apartment to look at it and the box, which he certified to be UPS at fault. This time they got a replacement for me and picked up the damaged one when they delivered the new one in perfect shape, and it didn't cost the horendous ship back fee.
4 of the 5 other people that I have on my team at work are former UPS employees, they told me when a new shipment comes in the first one off the truck becomes the "corner stone". Traditionaly the person who lays down the corner stone hold up the box at shoulder level and yells "corner stone" and drops it, reguardless of how it's marked. The hub that the package goes through also has a lot to do with it, the SweetWater hub here in Texas being amoung the worst and the Mesquite hub being amoung the best in the state. When I asked what the best way to ship through UPS was they said air, not that it was safe but that less people had their hands on it.
So far I've never had any problems with USPS, to bad I don't always get that type of choice when I order. The only good thing that came out of all of this is the monitor I bid on wasn't a Trinitron, but the replacements where.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
After three semesters of college in Boston, I had moved back home for a semester of co-op. Unfortunately, I'd forgotten to re-route a package that was being delivered to me via UPS. I called them up, had it rerouted, and they assured me that the driver would be notified about the reroute and not deliver the package.
Apparently they never called. What's worse, the UPS driver had some random person in the apartment sign it for me, rather than do what's supposed to be done and refuse delivery without a signature from me. UPS told me, however, that everything was okay.
That fucking package sat in the doorway of vacant apartment for two weeks before I found out about it (yay online shipment info.) Rather than deal with those fuckwits again, I had the apartment superintendent mail it to my home address via Priority Mail. It got there in 3 days.
What did I learn from the experience? Well, two things. Firstly, I had some very honest people in my apartment building and, secondly, UPS sucks ballon-knot, mummy-mouth style.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
I ordered up a Cisco 7010 (back in the day when it was nice and shiny). It was delivered via UPS groupd (too heavy to air ship) and was dropped off at our office dripping wet. The bottom 4 inches of the box were soaked, the delivery man with a straight face said 'Sign here please'. Cisco must have studied the wicking capabilities of the cardboard box. They uses 5 inches of packing material and luckily everything was ok. When I opened up the box water poured out. Didn't even phase the UPS guy
Now I hope and pray that I will But today I am still, just a bill
First off, how many boxes did you ship all this nice stuff in? 2,3?
How many times were these boxes used before? It looks like a lot.
How did the rca wire get bent? You left the thing plugged in when you packed it, right?
I'm sorry, but I see a lot of broken things here and no packing material, oh wait im sure this piece of tupperware will do fine for protecting the monitor!
Dont mean to be a jerk, but what did you expect?
Use at least sturdy boxes, use lots of paper or bubble wrap or even that popcorn stuff. pack your boxes evenly, dont make them too heavy and it will turn out better.
Why can't I find anything else on this guy simonster's homepage anyway. If you go to this page you are automatically redirected to this page.. and oddly enough PhotoAlbum2.html and PhotoAlbum1.html do not exist. index.html takes you directly to album3...
is here, email forms are here.
"If he thinks he can hide and run from the United States and our allies, he's sorely mistaken." Bush on bin Laden
Let's just say, right off the bat, that I never use UPS Ground unless I have to. They're slow, unreliable, and (as this thread show) have a habit of destroying the things they ship.
Anyway, here goes:
Small items to US addresses: USPS Priority Mail. It's cheap (cheaper than UPS Ground, even with delivery confirmation and insurance), very fast (2-3 days), and less chance of what you ship getting damaged.
Small items anywhere else: I haven't had to do this, but I would probably use FedEx. It's what we use at work to ship small packages/products to international addresses.
Large items: It depends on the item. If it's not too big, it goes USPS or FedEx. It's it's bulky, fragile, or a keepsake, I'd seriously consider either paying custom-critical movers to do it (yeah right), or loading it up in my Big-Ass 1984 Mercury Wagon and hauling it myself.
-lee
ZOOLANDER!
Hey you're the other person that saw it! Sweet!
Let's face it. The guy paid them to handle the shipment. Isn't this the responsibility of UPS to deliver the box in piece, like when their took it?
I just don't buy the fact that they took your money to do the work, they screwed, now it's your fault, because you didn't pay us more for extra insurance. So many people have been conditioned to accept shit like this. Extra insurance is just extra profit for these companies. Do you provide you extra services for that?
Now, if I run a delivery company, and I want people to pay me extra money to fatten my profit, well, I may just screw a few customers who didn't pay me extra money, and then say:"Too bad, your fault". That's really extortion, my friends.
Imagine you board on a train or airplane, and you arrive at your destination with a limb less, or a thorax has been crushed during the travel. And the company says:"Too bad, you didn't package yourself properly".
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
I was a loader for UPS. We use to hammer throw boxes into the trailers all the time. The heavier it was the harder it got tossed. All kinds of PC's would come through us. The only thing I was careful with was the Apple 22" studio display. It just wouldn't be right mishandling that. Now I ship everthing FedEx insured. I will never ship anything large via UPS. It will get ruined
Shipped a computer to my brother cross country(Portland, OR to Detroit, MI) with the USPS this spring... had just as much hassle. From the description I received, it would have had to be thrown against a hard object(truck wall, ground, etc. several times to get the thing in that kind of shape. The CPU fan had come loose, and basically bashed the inside all to crap. Luckily the main HD survived enough to salvage the data.
At least the USPS will insure goods. It did take a bit of wrangling, but we managed to get the full insured amount for the computer within about 2 months.
As for UPS, never again will I use them. My packages routinely arrive beat up and occasionally broken.
I had no idea that stuff was so easy to buy. I think my department will be getting a can or three of this. We might even actually use it for its intended purpose. :-)
Thanks!
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
I have always been a fan of Fedex Ground, until last June. In the past, they had always been faster, better, cheaper, and their customer service seemed a hell of a lot better than UPS.
In June I sold my iMac on eBay for $1100. After arranging payment, I shipped it out via Fedex ground, in its original packaging, paying the extra for $1200 in insurance.
A few days later I got a phone call from the purchaser asking about enormous cracks in the case and that the machine was non-functioning. I called Fedex, they sent someone over to the guy's house, did an inspection, and then the four months of hell began.
When I intially spoke to them, they said if it was their fault (which it obviously was, the box looked like they'd been playing football w/ it), that I should receive a check in a matter of weeks. They sent the inspector to the buyer's home and claimed that the fault was with Fedex. Thinking I would get the amount I insured it for (or at least what it costs to replace), I went ahead and purchased a new ma
chine and sent it to the eBay buyer. I started calling Fedex everyday.
At first I got the response that the package had to go to a main inspection site, an adjuster would have to call, and then the package would be sent back to me for salvage. Got the iMac back the next day. Sat in my living room for two months, box and all, while I waited on a check. I kept calling. Finally, I got tired of the box (I have a small apartment), took the iMac out, and threw the box away. In August, Fedex starting giving me the run around. Aparently, they had listed the machine as missing, they were perplexed trying to figure out why it had disappeared from one of their warehouses. I kept trying to tell them it was in my possession, they kept calling me back saying they couldn't find it. So far I had sent two computers out, one got destroyed, and only received payment for one. I was just out my extra $1200. Finally Fedex called and said they would have to do another inspection of the package. I explained to them that I had thrown out the packaging, but the machine with the 6inch cracks and broken tube was still in my possession.
The fighting began. After threatening legal action, I finally got a settlement check, four months after the incident, for $800, the blue book (pawn shop) value. My only choice was take it or leave it.
Needless to say, I've switched to the United States Postal service and have no complaints.
I was a pizza delivery boy in school for 2 years. We regularly delivered to the UPS shipping station near us so I got an up close view of how ground packages are handled. It isn't pretty. Imagine stacks of boxes being deposited behind trucks by conveyor belts which are then hurled into the back of these trucks by 18-25yr old stoners at 1AM. Not pretty.
UPS definitely sucks.
My first bad experience with them involved shipping a ham radio antenna to someone. Because I did not have a tube big enough to pack it in, I took the antenna to Mailboxes Etc and had them pack and ship it via UPS. The short story is that the person I sent it to received nothing but an empty tube with no end on it. Because the antenna was only worth about $99, I got that amount back from UPS, but I was still incredulous that the package got to him empty. Think of how many peoples' hands that tube had to have passed through, completely empty, with no cap on it. Not one of them thought "hmmm, this isn't right."
More recently, my roommates and I have had immensely irritating problems with packages being shipped to the wrong address. We live at 133 "this street." Somehow, one in five things that are shipped to us is delivered to 133 "that street," which is around the corner. Unfortunately, the place that these things end up is a hospital, so we have to wait for them to return the package to the shipper and then for the shipper to re-send it. AND hope that UPS doesn't misdeliver it again. I have complained about this over and over. Nothing ever changes. Our driver also seems to like to claim that he made a delivery and we "weren't home," even though we were here at the time specified, and no "missed delivery" notes were left.
For some truly impressive horror stories, see E-pinions.
-- Have you ever noticed that at trade shows, Microsoft is always the company that is handing out stress balls?
I don't know how readily available these are to mere mortals, but when I was working for a tape library company, we used to ship them out with these little sticky things glued to the box. It was a tiny clear plastic device, filled with fluid, and a very thin glass vial of dye. If subjected to a shock, the vial would rupture, and the whole thing would turn red, and you knew it was subjected to abuse.
Once we started shipping with shock-guards (and outlined the policy with the shipper) - incidence of DOA units fell 95%.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
'Nuff said
Or.... why didn't they sent anthrax in fragile boxes?
It's not impossible... I'll bet they are more carefull to packages now... Maybe now is the time to ship stuff...
Thinking of shipping Fed Ex? Maybe not after reading this story.
I'm on my way to a lab at a certain facility (names withheld because of details mentioned later). I happen to notice that the Fed Ex guy is unloading some things on my way up the walk. Suddenly I stop in horror as I watch him unload a small box that is absolutely COVERED in biohazard stickers and DROP it from shoulder height to the pavement at his feet. He then proceeds to pick up heavier, larger boxes and drop the from the same heighs ON TOP of the biohazard box!
Luckily, the contents of the box weren't hazardous: only some non-virulent strains of E. coli that a lab didn't happen to have on hand but needed for some reason. But what if it had been a package for a BSL-3 or BSL-4 lab? (for non-scientists, that's labs that work with bugs like HIV, tuberculosis, and Hanta virus) There are labs working with that nasty stuff at the facility. But the Fed Ex guy didn't really seem to care.
So if Fed Ex is careless with something so obviously marked as dangerous (what is more frightening than a box covered in bright red biohazard symbols?), just think of the loving care your packages much be receiving.
4-star general in a one-man army.
My brother is a manager at the Tinton Falls, NJ UPS Sort facility. He describes to me how the truck packers "throw" things in the trucks, and especially like to jump on/kick around the ones marked "Fragile" -- you made that mistake. Also, ever wonder how packages can sometimes get so badly lost? eg: i send a package from NYC to Freehold NJ, and it routes through miami,fl. Well, what happens at the end of the day when they realize they didnt sort everything, they just throw ALL the remaining packages into a bin to go "ANYWHERE" but there, so they dont have to deal with a manager on why the packages werent sorted on time. Use fedex.
holy fuck! I thought those things were made of polycarbonate! What did they do? Salvage it out of the WTC wreckage? You have to hit it with some pretty serious force to get polycarbonate to shear like that.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
I worked for UPS for three years at the Oakland Airport. I loaded planes and eventually was a manager on the loading belts.
Aside from not purchasing insurance, which absolutely IS available for high value international shipments, the packaging this guy used is a joke.
First off, the box obviously had airspace between the computers and the box walls. Common sense would dictate that this is not a good idea for boxes which are going to be piled with other boxes. The best thing he could have done was use the original boxes for the computers with the foamcore inserts. These are a fantastic way to package computers, and you really should keep this stuff. If you don't have the original packaging, wrap the components in layers of bubble wrap. Then put at least 4 inches of packing peanuts at the bottom of your box. Put the item in, and fill the rest of the box with peanuts, and make sure there is enough room at the top for another 4 inches of peanuts. DO NOT ALLLOW GAPS! These are the death of packages. Cardboard does not have good lateral strength. Would you expect to be able to stand on a cardboard box and have it support your weight?
For people considering shipping things in the future, one thing that is good to know is the UPS protocol for stacking packages in a truck or cargo container. Yep, they actually give lessons on how to do this to maximize space and minimize package damage, and managers study it for about two days in management training. Heavy, large boxes are always placed at the bottom of the load as your "foundation" pieces. They will be packed as tightly against the back and walls as they can be, or against the previous "wall" of packages. What this means is that your large box with a heavy computer will almost always wind up on the bottom of the wall of boxes. I believe a truck has about 8 to 10 feet of space from top to bottom, so you will likely have about 6-8 feet worth of other packages, some heavy, stacked on top of your box. Keep this in mind when shipping, and make your box as strong as possible!
This guy really didn't use much common sense in packaging his computer and probably should have left it up to someone who knew what they were doing.
Lastly, to people saying if you mark "Fragile" on a box it makes it a target for employees, this is utter nonsense. You can't even concieve how many boxes get processed during a normal day at a UPS hub (and I won't even mention what it's like during peak season) but you'd not have time to notice the fragile marking at all, much less pick it off the line and kick it around. That's just dumb muckracking. However, take from this that you can mark it "fragile" all you want, it will never be noticed by the people loading the trucks, there's no time. UPS asks its employees to treat all packages the same, and the trained handling techniques minimze package damage. It doesn't always work, but for the vast majority of boxes it does. But UPS can't prevent you from making dumb packaging decisions. (Well, the managers and good belt employees often notice the really bad ones, and will do what they can to repackage the box, but that's the exception rather than the rule.)
'Properly packed'? *In bubble wrap*?
Sorry, no. Did you ever notice how big companies ship computers?
I used to work for a company that was a UPS drop-off point, and 90% of the damaged packages were caused by poor packing on the part of the sender. (And contrary to the anecdotal evidence on this thread, a very tiny percentage of packages are actually damaged.) In my current business I ship and recieve by UPS weekly, less than 1 package out of 100 arrive damaged, because of proper packaging, almost none of the damaged boxes yield damaged contents.
I've been to hell and back with my bank. When I finally move, I plan on renting a lock-box, placing a 10-pound trout in the box, and walk away.
There is still something called 'gross negligence'.
ie: It is fair to assume that UPS is not going to take a shotgun & 50lb sledgehammer to your equipment and smash it to bits. You can't say 'Sorry, not our fault'. It just means there is no third party insurance.
This looks like gross negligence to me. It's not like something just got a bit bent (like, say, a china plate being broken in half or something.. or a cracked pane of glass). This stuff is *destroyed*.
...I flew from the UK to Holland with my box for a Lanparty. I had the option of courier (Expensive and I don't trust them), and also the option of using the original boxes for the case. I decided on neither. Instead, I bought a suitcase bigger than my Box, put the box inside, and stuffed tons of clothes around the outside. Only just made the weight limit of 10 KG, and carried all my cables and externals as hand luggage (Customs was horrible! They wondered why a shifty guy was carrying a ton of wiring in his hand luggage, along with some small metal boxes...) I would've placed bets that the PC had died by the time the luggage handlers grabbed it (Remember, it's in a suitcase, with some clothes...and no warnings at all..), but by some miracle, it reached Holland in pristine condition. On the way home, however, they lost the suitcase. At the time, they said it was in Schipol (Amsterdam Airport), and that they would deliver it by their own courier service as soon as it arrived. The box was still fine when it eventually got home (The next day)
I am the breaker of Chairs!
Why would UPS be soooo much worse than FedEx? Poor employee treatment, so they're all pissed off and treat the packages like shit? (A few folks comments somewhat indicate that the employees don't give a damn about the packages.) I remember reading stories on FedEx in a business class I took, and they always had a great deal of employee pride and respect; I wonder if that what makes the difference? Or of it's a difference in loading gear, policies, procedures, etc.? (Or that 30' drop from the conveyor to the trucks? :-)
:-) And on the plane, he would have been instantly killed by pieces spilling out of all the busted boxes. Wilson would have just been a flat, deflated lump of leather. He would have had to remove his infected tooth with a twisted mess of a skate blade. He would have had to tie together millions of little strips of video tape to make rope. Or he would have simply had nothing but a bunch of empty boxes with ripped open corners to work with. Would have been far more of a challenge. :-)
Weird... Amazing they can stay in business at all with that track record, and quality competition from FedEx.
I wonder how Castaway would have turned out if it revolved around UPS? Probably wouldn't have been an efficiency expert around in the first place
-me
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
I've had MANY MANY poor experiences w/ UPS and "Customs/Brokerage" fees.
I had ordered a USB attachment for my Samsung YEPP from Samsung, and a really bad case for it. This totalled up to be about $60CDN with shipping included. They wanted me to pay $30CDN in brokerage and customs fees.
Ordered an Athlon motherboard from a company in Texas who I found on pricewatch.com. This was one of the older Slot A motherboard, which was only $40US+shipping, I paid $40CDN in brokerage and customs fees.
LOL, I ordered a few shirts, some Chia mix, stickers, and other fun stuff from Thinkgeek.com . Customs had it for 2 WEEKS. 2 WEEKS, WTF took them 2 weeks to examine!? And then when the package arrived, $20CDN in customs/brokerage shit again.
ALL THESE PACKAGES WERE DELIVERED THROUGH UPS.
Only company i've ever had a problem with. I've decided to no longer deal with companies who do their deliveries through UPS. It's just not worth it.
Almost forgot, I live in Southern Ontario.
BLAME CANADA! (Sung to the South Park theme)
From my experience, I think packing method plays a huge role in how shipments end up at the destination. Lots of packing fill and try not to pack a box full of (especially fragile) heavy equipment.
I may be wrong but from the photo album, it looks like all/many of your machines & monitor(s) were shoved into one shipping box. That's a bad idea. Heavier boxes tend to get munched a lot easier (carboard box strength being what it is). So one computer or monitor per box with lots of packing!
I had the following international "Shipping" incident with UPS. I'm a chip designer and was working for Motorola in Holland at the time. However I was posted on assignment at a vendors site in Seatle working on some new design software. We designed a new chip with this vendors software and it did some bizarre stuff. Since it was a prototype before production we didn't make many of them, and I had them shipped from Holland to Seattle UPS air. They were in a plastic chip packing rack, an indistructable gizmo that locks them rigidly inplace, aout 12"x6"x0.5" that we just put into the standard UPS plastic shipping envelope. When this arrived in Seattle the UPS guy gave the envelope to the front desk girl who signed then called me. Snag was he only delivered an empty envelope. There was a long cut the full length of the envelope, and only air inside. They never did find the chips, and insurance was not an issue since no money could buy us the 8 weeks it took us to make new chips. I've never used UPS since, Fedex gets all by couier buisness and has never even vaguely fucked up anything.
ION
And to think this wa sa comapny who supposedly specialized in moving entire companies.
Surprise, when I recieved the package at home, it had been bent. The mounting cardbord had been totally destroyed. Fortunately, I was able to remount it at the place I got it framed, though there is a permanent crease in the piece towards the top that is noticable in bright lighting, if you know what you are looking for.
This kind of peeves me to this day, since there are only two copies of this in existance. The artist has the other one.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
I sent my dell tower system from CA to MA, and UPS Ground fubared it... it was packed so as to be completely immobile, with a 2" layer of foam rubber in between the case and the heavy-duty cardboard box. When it came, it looked like a big heavy guy named Chunk had used it as a chair/punching bag. I wasn't the signatory, since we have a mailroom system. I opened the package, found pieces broken off the case and the slot side dented... at least 1" indentations in some places. Popped the top, found that my new GeForce2 had been shoved in, breaking the card and the sole AGP slot on the motherboard. Dell said that it would be cheaper to buy a new computer. Pissed me off. But at least I'd insured it for a _lot_ of money.
Especially for your G4!! Save the case styrofoam and boxes for all your devices. Airborne Express shipping my monitor and the box was trashed and all that was holding the styrofoam together was bits of cardboard and massive packing tape. The styrofoam was intact and the monitor worked great.
I saw the pictures and kept asking myself, "If the boxes were that trashed, after seeing them, why did you sign for them?" If I ordered something, of any value, in which the package was destroyed, I would certainly not sign for it... Unless you were just a bonehead that requested, "Leave on back porch" or some other such nonsense.
I worked at UPS for a couple of months. Some of the things I learned: they have a high turn over rate. They only care about getting packages off trucks, scanned, and onto other trucks as soon as possible. Your package will take the same route every time, both directions. And unless you're mailing it something like one day across country, it will go by ground. I don't care if you paid for air. To make sure your package is safe: It's mainly the luck of the draw when it comes to which packages escape unscathed. There are frequent jams in the mess of conveyor belts, and all we do to get them loose is kick at the 'keystone' package. When I first started working there, my managers would always bug me about being too slow. They'd tell me to be less gentle (and illustrate this by hurling a couple of packages out of the truck.) Really, it's all about bomb-proofing your package, because the workers don't care, the managers don't care, and they know there's no way to catch them. I don't know if FedEx or the postal service are any better, but they can't be worse. Trust me.
BBC Controller. Free Faller. Force user.
I've been selling quite a lot of stuff on ebay recently and I've been using FedEx Ground, a rather new service out of FedEx. When I sell items on ebay, I quote shipping prices via the USPS, FedEx and UPS websites. FedEx is consistently the most cost effective, being able to carry large, heavy boxes for $8-20 for most destinations. UPS Ground is almost always $5-10 more, and my personal experiences have been far better with FedEx than UPS for any priority.
If you're shipping on a regular basis, try comparing FedEx Ground to the others. I may be getting better prices since I've got a FedEx Worldwide shipping centre near me for drop-off, but I'm ALSO comparing to a local UPS Worldwide shipping center for drop off as well.
Disclaimer: I don't work for FedEx and honestly, I find all delivery people (UPS, FedEx, UPS and more) to be equally polite and helpful. Must be some pissed off people in the middle causing the problems!
I packed up my entire apt. in 4 days, packed a PC in the same box it arrived in, and 2 boxes of clothes, a few dishes, and cd's.
The apartment stuff sat in boxes for months. Unmoved, but getting dusty.
The PC, clothes, dishs and cd's were shipped via UPS overnight. From Northern California to New England. I didn't insure this, because the initial payment to store the rest of my apt. things was HUGE, and I was VERY short of money.
The UPS delivery to New England was 4 days late. The PC box was falling apart, the dishes were all broken, and the CD jewelbox's cracked. I had to take apart the PC and put it back together again. UPS denied any wrongdoing.
However, eventually I shipped the rest of my apt. box's to New England, with a reputible shipping company. NOTHING was broken....115 box's worth of dishes, antiques, books, and electrical equipment. And it was all insurered. The insurance was over $800 bucks, and it wan't needed.
The moral of this story? If your going to make a major move, sell everything but your favorite set of cd's, and take the PC with you when you travel to your destination.
First off I like to say overall I have heard of many more cases of UPS (United Pulverizing Service) breaking stuff than Fedex. However at a software company I onced worked at we had high end compaq server (Proliant 6000's) shipped to us almost daily. When would configure the machines and then ship them (insured) to the customers in the orginal packaging from Compaq which was was well packed. When one of the server shows up at the customer site looking like it was rammed by a forklift Fedex refuses pay for the damages sighting that it was not properly packed. We promptedly stopped shipping with fedex so they lost out on thousands of dollars a month.
My dad was at a UPS branch in Massachusets. Snowing, with slushy ground. One of the UPS employees is kicking boxes (and I mean winding, and kicking) out the back of the semi onto the concrete tarmack. 3' drop to the ground. After the boxes were nicely soaked, they were carted inside.
The UPS unloader couldn't be fired for conduct like that. Union.
Go FedEx!
I had a similar experience with UPS. I had ordered a PC from BC to ship to NB ( I'm not going to explain these figure them out ;) ) ordered 5th Sep. arrive 15th Sept. Dropped on the front of the case so hard the case material penetrated the CDR in the top bay. After 3 weeks, UPS picked up....wait....wait....Sorry not covered, packed properly so it was broken before it was shipped, RIGHT! talked to shipper they said UPS said not packed properly. Shipped then mistakenly sips replacement case, remeber the CDR was toast too. Used UPS, broken. Finally UPS ships first PC back to the shipper who fixes it and ships it back using Purolator who... drop it, but at least it was on the back corner and they only make a slight ding in the paint on the corner. it's now Oct 30th and the PC has at least 15,000 miles on it. Now only if I can get the airmiles. Do not use UPS PERIOD. The whole plan the courier companies have is to get your stuff from one place to the other as fast and as cheaply as possible. They don't pick up the pieces if they drop it, they don't care if it's insured, they don't care if it's smashed, only that it went from point A to B.
As for insurance, it's laughable but unless you can match the tire prints that ran over your package to one of thier vehicles you are not going to find it easy to collect.
BTW My PC works very well - Long live AMD.
Just don't ship them...
They will get broken no matter who you choose...
I manage a small communcations business and I ship and receive high value items every day. I seldom put insurance on an item unless it is over $10K in value and unusually heavy.
I recently shipped a large piece of test equipment to calibration via UPS overnight (Red) and put $16k insurance on it, the cal facility put the same amount on it for the return trip and UPS actually called me to verify receipt. They track high value items very closely. My UPS guy usually questions me very closely about the contents of insured items. Note: Insurance is very expensive, often costing more than the shipping.
As far as shipping computer sized items, you have to plan and pack with the consideration that the items will either be shipped on planes, trains, or trucks, and your item will likely be on the bottom of a stack at some point and that the box will be transferred between containers multiple times in transit in the journey with the probability that it will be dropped. Use a pack and ship place to pack for you or double box: ie pack your item in a box (padded well) then place that box inside another box and pad on all 6 sides. Use the thick packing foam or styrofoam when possible or large amounts of bubble wrap. Static bag and bubble wrap electronic components (last years video card) Don't skimp on materials and then cry when untaped corners on cheap cardboard break.
Just my $.02
Zapster
Strange how this popped up on Slashdot after UPS (Ground) recently delivered a busted Sparcstation to me. If any of you have messed with Sparcstations, you'd know how it's next to impossible to get those Mbus/Sbus cards out. Well, UPS managed to do just that somehow, either by dropping it enough or whatever, and a card ripped off internal parts as it banged around the inside of the case. UPS claims they don't have to pay up on insurance unless the box is damaged, which it wasn't. Of course, they claim they'll be coming out here to check the packaging and stuff but they seem to be sitting on it. I guess they figure the ball is in their end of the court now and I can't do anything more until they look at it. *sigh* Meanwhile, I've shipped dozens of things FedEx, both ground and air, and have never had any problems.
A perfect reason to rack mount all your computers in one of those Anvil cases.
http://www.anvildealer.com/anvil_cases.htm
if common sense was common, wouldn't everyone have it?
If you are using the original formed foam, open up the case, put in a small trashbag or two and fill them with expanding foam. Its cheap and easy to remove.
If you lost the original packing, you can make new form-fitting foam, but it will probably take several cans.
My luck has been better with UPS. They will arrange delivery at my home (e.g. I can call them and they'll make an appointment to deliver). FedEx won't.
The last shipment that FedEx delivered included a 21" monitor - the box containing it was trashed, leaking peanuts all over. The driver acted as if this was normal. The box had a large tear in one side, and all six corners were dented in - obviously it had fallen off a truck and rolled. But the driver acted as if nothing was wrong!! I checked the monitor, and yep, it was broken. He carried it away with him, and I will avoid FedEx forever...
UPS, by the way, is how Amazon almost always delivers to me. And last time, they beat the USPS by a week - no kidding, a week. (Amazon's warehouse is 45 miles away from my home so USPS has _no_ excuse for taking a week.)
One of my customers shipped a computer across the U.S. from one of his offices to another one. His shipping department packaged the computer. They ship hundreds of items a day, so believe me, they know what they're doing. He had Federal Express ship the computer with (what he thought at the time) was maximum insurance: $500. This computer, which is (or I should say, "was") worth over three thousand dollars, got wrecked to pieces during shipment. The loss wasn't limited to hardware damage either. If you account for the time he had to waste, the cost of a replacement, and the loss of data (the hard drives were badly damaged, and like most of my customers, he doesn't quite comprehend the importance of a reliable data backup system and policy), the damages could be worth well over $30,000.
My advice to anybody who wishes to ship a computer is as follows: First and foremost, backup all important information stored on this computer! I cannot stress this enough. Backups are so important, especially for businesses--I don't care if a good backup system costs $10,000, it's worth every penny. A good backup policy doesn't have to be complicated. It can be as simple as burning a CD once a week.
Secondly, I would NOT ship a computer in one piece. A computer case is mostly hollow and the parts are not held in place for strong shocks and vibrations. (I should know--I work in industrial computing, where the computer case is specially designed to protect the hardware against the harsh industrial environment.) I believe the best way to ship a computer is to disassemble it completely, placing each piece of hardware in its original packaging materials, and then packing all of these items in a well insulated box. Since most people discard their original packaging materials when they purchase a product--and I admit to fall into this category as there wouldn't be enough room in the shop to store all that packaging--the alternative is to obtain a bunch of anti-static wrappers (that's one thing I do keep from all hardware I buy) and to place all the hardware in this material, and then to package all the components in a well-insulated box. Furthermore, if I have a choice in the matter, I do not ship hard drives with any carrier, even with all the backups in the world, as I don't want personal or business data falling into the wrong hands, as unlikely as that might be. Besides, losing a hard drive is a nuisance, even with backups. So if I am travelling to the same destination as the computer, I take the hard drives with me in my luggage.
Third and finally, I would insure the computer for its entire value. Above, I said you should package all the individually packaged parts of the computer in a single, well insulated box for shipping. That is, do so only if you can insure one "item" (the entire box) for its total cost. If there is a limit to the insurance, like the Federal Express limit of $500, I would put the items into several boxes, with the contents of each individual box worth no more than $500 if you can help it. (If you have a graphics card that costs $800, you're out of luck on this one (at least on protecting against loss--a graphics card or whatever other piece of hardware is unlikely to get damaged if packaged individually), but there's always the possibility of transporting the really expensive components yourself.)
When it comes down to it, I think the best thing to do in any situation is to just use some common sense. You wouldn't want to drop your computer on the floor, no matter how well built it is. Since shippers usually throw and drop things without giving a damn as to what's inside the box, you should always think out the worst case scenerios whenever you ship anything, be it a computer or even something trivial.
I had two brand new PCs shipped in (UPS ground I believe) and they came in much like your boxes. I called them up and the _OFFICIAL_ reason was that a 'tequila party' had occurred.
Yes, I'm serious.
A word of warning -- always pack computers in TWO BOXES!
When I shipped a Sun from California to Maine, I first brought it, quite well padded in bubblewrap and packing peanuts and a very well sealed box to the local Mail Boxes Etc. When I said I wanted it insured for $1000, they asked what it was. I said "computer" and they said "that needs to be double boxed." So they did it.... for like 10 bucks or so. It was shipped and insured for under $70, cross country. It arrived in good condition, but the outer box was pretty battered... that's why you use two boxes!
Please remember to double box stuff if you're planning on shipping it!
-dan
unixpunx.org
Do it doug.
I feel for you man.. but, if those pictures are at all accurate, the focus of your article should be 'how not to pack computers'.
Before you assume UPS beat your computers with a sledgehammer (which it looks like) consider what happens when a few thousand pounds of weight are put on a box while it's stacked with a bunch of other boxes, and said box is not packed correctly. The box quickly deforms; and those forces are concentrated on the contents of the box, ie: your computer.
Bubblewrap and paper, and a blanket wrap work fine to shield a computer from, say, a ride in the back of a pickup, or in the back seat of your car...
but for real shipping, you have to have that box packed such that forces are distributed evenly through the box.. AROUND what's in it. This means: custom fit styrofoam, like the way it's shipped to you... or packing peanuts. Or.. if it's blankets.. lots of them, wadded up into balls, and PACKED in. You should be able to stand on that box before shipping it out and not have anything bad happen.
Proper packing for shipment is about more than cushioning the contents from being knocked around, or keepin them from shifting... it's about distributing otherwise crushing forces in such a way that the contents are protected.
I'm sorry to say it... but what happened to your equipment really, truly looks like the result of improper packaging. It really DOES make that much of a difference.
You used UPS, didn't you? What did you expect? For the package to arrive intact??? For UPS to actually honor the insurance, despite the fact that you are not a major account?????? Hello???
Let's see... Last count, one $2500 monitor destroyed and not replaced. One $1000 monitor destroyed and not replaced. Last month they smashed a pcmcia card into a U-shape. No apologies, no compensation. The excuse? "You used non-standard packaging." Of course the manufacturer's box is "non-standard packaging." UPS = "UP yourS, stupid shipper"
Monitors are dangerous! You could shock yourself good! Like stop your heart shock yourself. Be careful if you are dumb enough to try this.
Lasers Controlled Games!
Soft padding simply won't work through the mail. I made this mistake once, thankfully on far less expensive items. It's especially pathetic when combined with hard, heavy objects like books (for me) or computers (for you).
Although I've seen several "you should have known better" postings, I disagree. Most packing guidelines are very poorly and/or ambiguously written. Just what does "adequate padding" mean? What could be more adequate than padding with several pillows, right? Wrong.
The packing material must not compress or else your packing is useless and you get "exploded" boxes that look, well, like yours. This is why computers are packed by the factory suspended in the middle of the box by styrofoam holders. The holders transfer the load of the other boxes stacked on top through to the boxes stacked underneath without collapsing. Bubble wrap is great for a thin protective layer around individual items, but it won't hold them in place within a box.
It's unfortunate that your lesson was so expensive. I wish you luck in your attempts at getting some reimbursement, however next time be sure to use professional packing materials (sounds like you did-- bubble wrap), leave absolutely zero air space, and plan for several hundred pounds to be sitting on top of whatever you ship.
Christ. Here goes.
This is a company that makes its money by transporting other people's property. How do they respond to their customers' choice to ship with them and not FedEx or the local Post Office, thus providing them with their income? They attempt to smash that property to bits. That makes a whole lot of sense. A previous poster who works for UPS wrote that he had seen his fellow employees jumping up and down on computer and monitor boxes shipped by Dell and Gateway. Another guy posted how the delivery guy rolled an iMac box end over end to get it off of the truck! How on earth you can go on and blame the customer for not getting insurance when the employees of the company deliberately go out of their way to damage their meal tickets' property is beyond me. I for one am glad this guy posted the heads up. It will be a cold day in hell before I ever use UPS to ship so much as a paperclip for me or my company.
"Anyone that has ever gotten an idea based on any of my work and done something better with it-good for you."--J.Carmack
(he'd rather clean toilets for Safeway than work for them again)
Myself being formerly employeed by Safeway, this makes me REALLY scared of UPS**
**Useless Piece of $h!t
I had similar problems shipping a recording console with UPS. They refused to even return my calls until I started threatening a lawsuit. I have made the entire story, including photos and contact information, available at http://www.christopherpetro.com/ups [christopherpetro.com]
Nice page, including the pictures that show utterly insufficient padding in the case...
If you can afford it, try to get a notary public to verify the scanned documents against the physical evidence, ie./ scan invoices, get the notary's seal, then use Photoshop to obliterate the details.
Post the result on the website and contact UPS. A small-claims suit might help too.
========================================
Death will come, and will have your eyes
-- Pavese
Given the lack of styrofoam or 0ther internal support in the boxes, I'd say it doesn't look intentional at all.
See waht happens when you put, say, 500 pounds of weight bearing down on the top of one of those boxes, with no internal support, and then the truck hits some bumps, bouncing the load... so you might get up to 1000 pounds of force on the box for a moment.. hypothetically.
Boxes with the sides split? That's just what happens when the box starts to collapse. In fact, all those pictures show what happens when a box starts to deform.. and boxes deform because they are not packed correctly.
Packed correctly doens't mean 'I added some bubblewrap' either.
...Ace Ventura, Pet Detective? The opening scene warned me off of ever shipping anything UPS.
Bush is a cylon.
here in the UK (although possibly in the USA as well) UPS are advertising with the slogan "consider it done." It sounds as if it should be changed to "Consider it done in."
I truely feel for this guy. But, as someone who works for a eCommerce website and has setup a lot of the processes and procedures, never send anything you can't afford to lose without insurrance. And secondly, always use twice as much packing and padding as you'd sanely expect it to need.
Matt Bland
--
No sig, No login, No surrender
Karma? What's karma?
fear the picture of the smashed tupperware at the end..
NOOOOO! NOT THE TUPPERWARE! WHY?!?!
Many states have laws about covertly recording audio without concent. Since you have no way of knowing what state your package is in you can't do that...unles you create some interesting technology with a GPS device... :)
set softtabstop=4 shiftwidth=4 expandtab nocp worlddomination
To be honest, I have to say that the _only_ company that's got my stuff to me on time (we live out of the way, and drivers have fun finding us!) and in good nick is UPS. My least favourite, on all counts - "city link" (guess their nickname!!!) but is you ever visit linux.org.uk, you might notice that one of the boxes is called "parcelfarce.linux.org.uk" - this is an Alan-Coxism after the UK Post Office's parcel division (Parcel Force) screwed up the delivery of his machine from Wales to Leeds (where the fat network wires are at) a few times too many.. I've kept those boys on my boycott list, and I _try_ to avoid companies who use deliverers who I've blacklisted :)
Tom Newton
that they kick packages around on purpose that do not have insurance. There's a good article on UPS about how they like to destroy stuff called "why monitors are like footballs" or another one called "why monitors are like hammers (as in throw)" No, I'm not making this up as I go along, if you look it up you will surely find these articles; moral of the story is don't ship your boxen in a way you wouldn't ship your best friend.
Don't call my crazy, that's what they called me back in the home!
I've had shipments from UPS that were left out on back balconies with no note, sometimes for weeks. I had one that appeared on a second-floor outside patio, where the only way to get the box up there was to throw it. Shipments that were almost sent back because I was never notified that they had arrived and were being held, various other horror stories. Stay away from UPS.
I've had extensive experience working in air cargo and we were usually the equal to the apes in the samsonite adverts... but dude, this was VERY poorly packed. It sucks to see a nice G4 damaged, but the photos are proof - this should have been taken to a UPS shipping center (Mail Boxes Etc or something) and insured. At the very least, he should have used the original packing material or gone to a local Mac shop and asked them for an empty G4 box.
We accidentally ran an entire cookie sheet of Gateway computers out of the lower deck of a 747-400F before and they crashed to the ramp below. None of them were seriously damaged despite damage to the packing material.
And the UPS insurance? It's worth buying. Another thing to ALWAYS do is PHOTOGRAPH THE PACKING JOB **BEFORE** SHIPPING IT. That way you have some evidence that you didn't ship it out in a box that was ready to disintegrate....
Sucks that this happened tho. =/
The best way to ship computers if you're moving is in parts. I have a friend who moved from Buttass Alabama, to Queensland Australia. Before he left he asked me for my advice on moving his computer from there to here. My advice was as follows:
:-) I also have an iBook, which will be coming in the cabin of any aircraft I fly on. So of my three computers, I'll only be taking one with me.
Remove any PCI cards that cost more than about US$50 and place in anti-static bags. Do same with hard drive. Do same to any PC100+ RAM. Also remove any DVD drive and any CD burner faster than 8x. If processor is currentish model and you have the packaging, remove that too. Wrap parts up in your clothes and place in suitcase.
Place remaining parts of computer in nearest dumpster and/or give to anyone who you think may want it.
When you arrive at your final location, take the parts to a computer dealer and ask them to make a working machine out of them. You should only need to purchase a case, power supply, motherboard and keyboard/mouse. This will probably set you back about $300. Good luck
I'm thinking of moving to Canada in a few years time. By that time, my current G4 tower will be 3 years old and not worth taking, so I'll sell it here and buy a new one when I get settled there. I also have a P200 which I might take with me, but like this guy, it's just a routerbox, so I'll probably part it out and package it that way. Like, after I take out all the PCI cards and put them inside antistatic bags, maybe get a plastic bag and fill it with clothes, put that inside the computer case and screw it closed again. Should make some decent padding
Or maybe just ditch it here. But then again, I do like it.. I have nice rounded cables and stuff inside it.
(see subject)
That's the same thing I was thinking. Have you ever gotten a hard drive in the mail? Look at the way it's packaged... shipping a HD inside an assembled PC is just insane.
At least if some of the pieces get damaged, they'll be easier to replace individually.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Stop telling this poor bastard that this is his fault!!! This is a protection racket as sure as any run your local mafia. How on earth have we gotten to the state where we need to pay money (disguised as "insurance") to keep UPS (or anybody else) from kicking and mishandling our goods? This is a bigger ass-raping than people who think a blue-screen is how computers work! I've seen people who work on shipping goods on trains and busses, and they mistreat your goods, and if they overhear you complain they do it worse. I've had my girlfriend drag me out of a train station coz I was gonna hit some idiot for kicking my bags around. What the fuck are we paying for? We're paying for a professional service, but we're willing to accept not getting anywhere near a professional result! They have insurance to cover any losses if a truck crashes or if your goods get stolen, so why should we pay "insurance"??? We pay them extra so their employees don't throw around what we're paying them to look after in the first place.
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
Actually when I think of a "hardened" case. It's usually one of those cases electronic test equipment is shipped in. Hard metal outside. Dense foam interior with cutouts.
I work part time for a Mail Boxes Etc here in Canada. I'm a student and have been working there for over 5 years.
As for couriers, this is how I see things.
UPS is the worst courier of all of them. They insure packages and take your money for the insurance, but if its the least bit breakable, they claim lack of packing and null the insurance. If its used personal goods, no insurance. If its precious, rare, or artwork, no insurance (they drove a forklift through a one of a kind artwork and refused to own up). If you ship them within Canada, they are usually fine, but they still get shreaded and lost randomly, nothing like sending something standard to the US though.
Sending UPS standard is the best way to make things end up in little pieces, its shipped all over the US, from depot to depot and often gets lost, or they lose the tracking on it (easily 1 in 5 packages gets lost or is untrackable by standard). If you send things express, or 2 day (expedited), they go directly to the location. UPS also have ridiculous custom fees (something like $40 canadian).
Fedex is great, never lost or damaged anything. So far, over 5 years, one package was late, it was supposed to be delivered saturday and they couldn't, so a supervisor went out and did it on sunday.
Even though UPS now owns MBE, I refuse to recommend them.
I work for UPS for almost a year and I can honestly say that I have seen many broken items come through. :) ...
9 times out of ten the broken item isn't our fault, it is the fault of the shipper. For instances Compaq, which they not particularly bright in the first place, decided that they would ship their montiors and machines in the same box, which amounts to about 110lbs. anything over 70lbs in the ups system requires two people to handle. As me and another person lifted the package on one of the belts the all so high quailty tape of the bottom of the box gave and computer pieces everywhere. We then put everything back in the box and sent back to compaq with a nice note
Good shippers: Dell, Micron, people with common sense
bad shippers: Compaq, tiny, people in a hurry and stupid.
I have seen alot in this world, but my god i couldn't believe that monkey!!
You could do a decent study on shipping service quality with some Instrumented Sensor Technology equipment for transportation and handling measurements. They'll even rent you the gear.
From the SnapShockPlus page: During operation the SnapShock-PLUS can measure and record up to 1475 time-tagged, peak acceleration levels. With the optional extended data memory this can be increased to 5900 readings. Check out the graphs and histograms.
------DO NOT WRITE BELOW THIS LINE------
I know a couple people who work for UPS sorting boxes and I've heard some bad stories. For example when one of them hit his leg he grabbed a box of florescent light bulbs and threw it across the room where it crumpled. Needless to say the bulbs were all destroyed. His boss just shook his head at him... If your box happens to come at the wrong time...
Look at how you packed it you moron.
::::: ATTENTION ::::
When ever you ship UPS use nothing less than overnite/next day/2nd day air.
IT'S YOUR FAULT.
UPS are well known for being BEASTS with packages. I have received broken equipment my self.
You need to package it well enough to protect an egg being dropped from a 10 story building, THEN, package it again. Double box, triple stuff, quadruple wrap, 10 rolls of tape, etc...
Pay Mail Boxes Etc, or something.
By being a cheap skate you endangered your package.
To minimize it's exposure to them box monkeys.
By using next day it doesn't sit in a death chamber with all the other DOOMED boxes & as well goes thru less hops (a-la routers).
By looking at those pics I can tell you are equally at fault for the destruction of your piece of shit MAC.
Anyhow,
Them stupid box lifting morons don't give a flying fuck about any of your packages.
Think they're reading Slashdot? Think again !
UPS is gladiator school for ex-cons who wanna keep working out there arms & upper body by slinging around heavy boxes filled with geek shit all day.
Quick refresher on "bullet-proof" polycarbonate platics. Youy experiences were exactly what should have happend. Poly should be able to withstand huge forces (were talking tens of tonnes) for very short periods of time and/or over a decent sized area. With the first shot the bullets energy would have been absorbed and radially dissapated along the plane of material. I.e. a divet out with spider fractures radiating. Then the shotgun (at close range, shot not slugs I assume) would have then hit directly either the divet or one of the fractures and thus causing a total fracturing of the entire material. Possibly the whole piece (just like tempered glass). For the shell (the computer's that is, not the .762 CZ-52 handgun or 12 gauge) to be trully "bullet-proof" it would be sandwiched between some clear platic that doesn't fracture radially and is pretty strectchy. Long as the pieces are held together, a damaged pane becomes just a lot of smaller panes that can take almost as much force as the original.
Check out http://www.wearingwilliams.mb.ca/spec3.html for some more info.
USA-Democracy is 270 million YESes and NOes a day, not one every four years.
A few years back, I had a mini-tower shipped to me via UPS. When I received it, the CPU had been wrenched loose from its ZIF socket and had clanged around the case until ALL of the pins were bent.
I took a photo of it for insurance purposes, put on my glasses and went at it with a pair of tweezers.
Two hours and much sweating later, I plugged the CPU in and the system booted great. But it was a lesson in proper shipping...
Justin
"Why would God give us a waist if we wasn't supposed to rest our pants on it?" - Rev. Roy McDaniels
I can't blame UPS, I mean people should put macs out of their misery where ever possible.
Packing peanuts are bad news. As packages are bumped, or even dropped, a sufficiently massive object in the package can compress the peanuts on one side, allowing peanuts to fill the resulting cavity on the opposite side. This results in a cavity elsewhere, possibly even leaving NO peanuts between the object and the wall of the box. If bumped in another direction, the object can shift toward that cavity, resulting in a situation where it has no padding.
Since most of the time you've probably thrown away the original styrofoam blocks, here's a way you can simulate them.
Get some small trash bags and a can of triple-expanding spray foam insulation. Place a trash bag in the bottom of the box and partially fill it with the spray foam, so that it's 1/3 to 1/2 as much as you really want. Seal the bag very well with a band of adhesive tape (NOT a twist tie). Place the object on top. Allow the spray foam to reach its full expansion, this may take a while. Do the same at the top, remembering to only use 1/3 to 1/2 of the desired amount. Seal the bag, then close the top. Wait for the top bag to reach full expansion and for the foam to harden. Shake the box to make sure things don't rattle.
The foam-filled bag should reach all 8 corners of the box; you may need to use a small bag in each corner. Don't get the foam on ANYTHING, you will never be able to completely remove it.
Breakable things (as in dishes, not as in computers) should have a layer of bubble wrap to prevent them from knocking against each other, but bubble wrap by itself is insufficient packaging for anything more valuable than a turd.
Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
Insightful...yes.
I think it's time to start the thread on the how and why of "The Trolls of Slashdot Swamp". It can be a series, starting with the abnormal psych of the people that feed them. It's a tale of playground brutes and lost children...a reflection of today's isolated young minds and how they are easy prey for those that have gone before them.
I think the more important question is. Why does UPS have such strong magnets in their facility?
There seems to be a lot of similar posts up, so I'll try and address them en masse:
/. of similar stories, and I see many posts complaining of similar damage. There are also many posts from (ex) UPS handlers who claim that the parcels are handled very roughly, dropped, flung around on conveyers, etc.
;)
1) No the computers were not all in one box. All the computers and the monitor were packed in separate boxes, with the exception of the G4 and the PowerTower Pro which were in the same box to keep things tight. I packed them as best I could with bubble wrap and other packing material. I did not pack them with their original foam cut-outs, I have long thrown those out. The equipment was packed *tight*. I packed it myself, although I was not present when the boxes were picked up.
2) Those boxes were almost new to begin with. No dings or tears. They are both UHaul and professional moving boxes.
3) I am not a veteran shipper. I thought UPS Ground was a dependable shipper as advertised.
From UPS website:
"UPS Standard service to the U.S. blends UPS's prompt, dependable delivery schedule with low-cost, fully tracked ground delivery for your routine shipments. A reliable choice for your less urgent shipments to the United States. "
4) The boxes were expected at the point of departure and cleared. The delivery man verbally assured the shipper that fragile items would be noted by handlers.
5) UPS does not insure ground shipments from Canada to the US. The shipper noted this but was encouraged by the delivery man to ship with UPS.
I have received many emails since I made this submission on
The most frustrating part of this whole experience has been trying to get a straight story from UPS. In so far I have been forwarded along with the blame from internal department to internal department for 2 weeks.
Where do I go from here?
1) BBB. I will file a complaint with them.
2) Small claims court. Next stop.
3) Class action? I'm new to the US. I'm not sure how this works. I've received suggestions from many that they experienced similar treatment and that this avenue is pursuable on behalf of us all. I'm more sceptical. I'd have to talk to a lawyer about this first.
email me @ jutusmanNO@SPAMyahoo.com
I have received many emails from people who are changing their equipment shipping plans in the coming days. I am glad some good came of this.
Finally, for those who asked, the PC was running FreeBSD, the PowerTower was running LinuxPPC, and the G4 was running OS X. And I loved them all, I'm sure those of you with "children" know what I'm talking about.
Thank you kindly for your posts.
This is a bogus anti-UPS story. Theres no way UPS would allow their employees to deliver that (and get away with it). I'm going to get a negative rateing on this but here it goes anyway.. Don't always belive what you read on slashdot. Its not verified! If you understand that when reading your life is much more complete because you don't go around telling people about the new cool MIT OS or how UPS is bad...
That....used to work for UPS, he said he was managing a trailer style temporary package sorting room. One of the guys was THROWING
19 inch monitors (packaged) about 20-30 feet into the corner of the room. He was pissed and expressed himself, the guy just shrugged and walked away. I did a similar thing once but the monitors were monochrome and 16 color and the recipient was a trash bin.
It's amamzing... Maybe it has something to do with Florida!
I had built a PC for my uncle who lives in Florida and shipped it from my place in NY. When he received it he called me and told me the machine was severely damaged. He then repackaged the computer and sent it back to me and I could not believe my eyes when I saw the way the machine had been beaten. I looked like someone had bothered to open the box and beat the computer with a hammer. The case was bent on all sides, the drive mounts were broken off, the motherboard had a big crack in it, and there were a few cables missing from inside the computer!!!
How the f*** does this happen???
----
X=X+0 - It's the only thing I know is still true...
I understand and agree with many of the comments here that this package wasn't packed well, but does anyone really believe that this package was dropped a couple of times?
... my GOD! Someone destroyed these contents. Maybe it fell once, but this thing looks like a train hit it -- or a few well placed crow-bar whacks.
The sheer destruction enacted on every single piece of equipment shipped
If Nalgene water bottles are outlawed, only outlaws will have Nalgene water bottles.
Sorry for the hindsight. I have been shipping computers, dumb terminals and printer for over 15 years. I will never use anyone but FEDEX, even though their service has deteriotad in the past 5 years it is head and shoulders above UPS. The only way you can get a claim paid by UPS is if you send it in the orginal packaging and then it is 20% then. If you must ship UPS send it 2nd day or Next Day so it is tracked better. Never send it Ground for UPS means ground as in meat.
I would think a lawsuit like this is exactly the kind of thing UPS's corporate lawyers would hate to face. Take them to civil court, where the burden of proof is less, and make sure to get a jury trial. Think about it, if you're sitting on a jury and see pictures like these, who are you going to side with? Some multi-billion dollar company that's probably messed up some of your packages, or the poor guy that got his computer stuff deliberately smashed up?
-------------------------------------------------
I worked at UPS for a few months. I never saw a box that trashed. Someone tried very hard to do that kind of damage. The RCA jack on the video capture card was bent. That didn't come from your run of the mill kicking the box to the end of the trailer. I can maybe see the G4's plastic extremities being broken, but a PowerTower? Man, those things were tanks.
:)
:) )
What can you do?
If you buy a computer, keep the box and the dense sytrofoam packing blocks. I had a lot of Apple computers come through when I worked at UPS. Apple knows how to pack a computer. Thick cardboard, strong tape, packed very well. I never saw an Apple box that was screwed up in any way.
If you don't have the original box, buy a brand new box, don't use the old worn out christmas box. Buy new and double box if at all possible. What's stronger than a cardboard box? Two cardboard boxes.
Fragile? Don't bother. No one looks for a fragile tag. All packages are thrown and kicked equally.
Use lots of packing material. Try to find some big hunks to go on all six sides of the box. Wrap the item itself with lots of bubblewrap, and fill the excess space in the box with popcorn. Lots of it. Stuff the box.
For computers, it's probably a good idea to stuff the interior with popcorn, just to be safe. (Just make sure to remove it before you start to use it again.)
Lots of good quality tape. Buy the good tape at the post office or wherever. Packing tape. Do not use masking tape dammit! A lot of tape may make it look like a giant box of anthrax, it ain't coming open until you open it. (Assuming you also used a good box)
If the box is big, write the to/from big. On all sides is good too.
If the items are big or fragile, one item per box. Two things in a box are bound to smash together. Not to mention the fact that the heavier a box is, the more pissed off the UPS employee will be.
And last but not least, if they won't insure your $2000 worth of computer equipment, tell 'em to shove it.
(BTW, if you wanna be really paranoid, crate it, and pay a ton of money.
SIGFEH
The chaps over at the Annals of Improbable Research have done some experiments into USPS package handling:
Postal Experiments
Good reading!
SG.
"You can justify anything by putting it in quotes, adding a famous name and making it a sig" - Albert Einstein
If you want to ship anything, check the terms and conditions first.
... for exactly this reason.
Most carriers are not insured to carry computing equipment anyway; those who are, will charge extra for it
You get what you pay for, and you didn't pay.
It may not be nice, but it's life.
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
I have shipped my PC pretty alot from upstate NY to California annually during summer and fall times for last 4 years. They never damged my computers nor the box it self..so they sensed that package contains Mac and decided to beat the shit out of it eh ?
" Then they tried to say that since I built the computer myself, they couldn't reimburse me because they couldn't tell how much it cost, and that it might have been that I put it together wrong that broke it."
This is one of the things about companies that annoy me. Making "out of my ass" excuses instead of owning up to what they do. No wonder people's opinions of companies are pretty low.
BTW the above is a good reason to save all your reciepts for equipment you purchase.
There are only two ways that I trust to ship my computer.
1. Greyhound -- they have never goofed yet, and have always been reliable. Plus their insurance extends cross border.
2. Carrying it by hand with me wherever I go, and storing it as carry on.
---
Also, I've a good tip for shipping/packing your PC. A standard metal (or plastic or whatever) case has a lot of empty space inside (for cooling, expansion, aesthetic reasons, etc.). Because the case is hollow it is more readily dented.
What I have started doing is putting all of my t-shirts, socks and underwear inside of the case before shipping. Simply remove the cover, and *carefuly* line the edges, and all around all cards, with socks, underwear, soft shirts, etc. The extra padding will protect the case from caving in, and will add extra support to the cards inside to prevent them from snapping or breaking.
So far I haven't had any problems with this technique (I've used it 6 or 7 times now). Everything always comes out safe at the end. Plus its one less bag I have to cary.
Last time I moved, I squeezed: 1 pair of pants, 1 pair of shorts, 3 shirts, 6 pairs of socks, 5 pairs of underwear, a mouse, an ethernet cord, two power cords, and a printer cable safely inside of the case.
- Gribflex
You slay me!
Welcome to America!
go get it
Truthfully though you have a point, 50% of the server cases I have had shipped have been damaged, usually in route. I mean lets face it if you throw down a box with a flimsy computer case inside something has got to give. The funny thing though is the situation I had about 8 months ago, I ordered the identical case from Onvia.com and Egghead.com (not my favorite vendors, but they had the lowest price at the time). Both cases arrived about 2 days apart, both were severly damaged. However, they were shipped with different companies, FedEx and UPS. At first I thought it was just a coincidence, and my "luck".
Then when I was looking at the shipping labels getting ready to return them to their respective companies, I noticed that they have both been shipped from the same location. (Somewhere in Florida, can't remember the exact address, not that it matters). Come to find out they had both come out of the same warehouse. That seemed rather strange, then it donned on me that the shipping companies were probably not at fault here. The merchandise was damaged before it even left the warehouse. Anyhow, I contacted the warehouse after some digging and explained the situation further, (gave them my case model number: Antec SX1030) and asked them to check into it. They later contacted me and explained that one of their forklift drivers had accidentally backed into a pallet full of these cases, but had not reported it to their superior, so not knowing anything was really wrong (even though the cardboard boxes they came in looked pretty mangled to me) they had proceeded to ship that damaged goods, at least that was their story.
Long story short, I got my money back and UPS and FedEx were both exonerated.
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson
www.haidacarver.com
Put, in huge letters, ANTHRAX across your box. You'll have it personally delivered by the FBI.
Of course, they may deliver your ass to jail.
And then I can gurantee you either get damaged on the way there, or on arrival.
I worked at UPS, IN one of the hubs for nearly 3 years. I worked as an unloader, loader, and sorter. It's a common misconception that those guys in the brown uniform driving the brown truck are the "UPS guys". They don't touch your package until they pull it out of their little truck. People like me load and unload your package repeatedly from semi trailers until it gets to your destination, and then at 3-4am WE load the little brown trucks. Then the guy you see comes in, drives the truck around and gives you the packages.
Where does the damage come from you ask ? Simple. Two sources. (A) The massive conveyor belt system that is inside every UPS (and Fedex) hub. It allows us to move a good half of San Diego County's packages in a work shift of 4 hours. You can imagine this involves hard and fast work. Packages get caught in the belts, the arms, and sometimes will fall off. (B) US. We destroy your package, for several reasons. If you didn't pack it right, so the weight shifts back and forth in the box, you can and do injure my back and the backs of my fellow UPS workers when we try to lift and move your package. I promise you I destroyed every poorly packaged box that caused me to hurt my back. Boxes that are oversized, overweight, or irregular are also asking to be destroyed. Boxes with sharp edges or with sharp items that poke out and cut our hands or legs. I promise you any box which draws my blood is destroyed. How do we destroy your package ? Simple. We all wear big workboots. Most of the time it's just stomped in. Other times we throw them across trailers. Pull off the labels. Put them in wrong trucks. It's us on the inside, screwing up your package because we're college laborers trying to earn a buck to pay for school and we don't appreciate a life-long back injury due to your fucking poorly packaged shipment. Which leads us to the most common reason packages are destroyed. (3) YOU PACKAGED IT WRONG JACKASS ! People get these old old sat-out-in-the-rain cardboard boxes, put something inside them, and then WRAP and WRAP them in tape, like that's going to make it okay. The damned boxes fall apart all the time, landing on our feet, fingers, or bashing our shins with your worthless garbage shipment. It must not be worth anything or you'd have shipped it properly. If you ship something in a fucked up box, we might not even be the ones destroying it. It may just self-descruct while in our system, once again hurting me or one of my coworkers.
The point is, a LARGE majority of the boxes shipped through our system get to their destination in perfect condition. These are the properly packaged boxes of reasonable weight and size, which are evenly distributed (don't shift), and are packed in new or like-new boxes which are rated for the weight you put in them. It's that simple. You package it right, I ship it right, we're both happy. You package it wrong, I destroy it, my back is hurting in Calculus class tomorrow, you got what you deserved.
And this is NOT just a UPS thing. I know people who worked at FedEx and people who worked at other UPS hubs. We shared similar stories about being injured on the job by shitty packaging, not being able to report the injury because it affects your record far too much, and therefore taking out our pain on your packages. Believe me, unless you've worked in a hub, building walls of boxes in trailers, unloaded trailers for hours, and sorted boxes onto belts, you are in no position to naysay me on this. Fuck the little brown suit guy and his little brown truck. UPS hubs should have stickers on the side that say "Powered by Starving Students".
I am certainly sorry for the poster's loss of computer equipment... I can understand that that must be devastating.
:(
However, I was under the impression (I have shipped *many* computers in the course of my job) that no shipping company will accept a computer unless it is "double walled". That is, the computer must be packed in a box, and then that box must be packed in a bigger box. (Each box must contain the requisite number of inches of padding on each side.)
I am surprised that UPS accepted the packages - I suspect that unfortunately, he dealt with inexperienced or downright lazy employees.
libertarianswag.com
Another thing to add. Start a trail. Be it paper or otherwise. Take names of people you speak to. Note when you spoke to them. Tape if you have to( check your laws first). Keep ALL your paperwork. Be well informed about the law and procedures (to the best of your ability). If you come across as a calm, reasonable no-nonsense, "I know what I'm talking about", "I'll do what it takes". You'll gain respect and results.
When I was living in California for a couple years, my parents (who live in Alabama) sent me a package via UPS ground. It had, among other things, a Stafford trench coat and plenty of dried food (bagged flavored rice and so on that you can get at a grocery store, mac & cheese, etc). The box that arrived was square shaped and a pristine brown cardboard color. I didn't think about the fact that it didn't seem to have a "From" label in handwriting...but I did find it terribly strange that some of the contents in an obviously dry box were quite soaked. The coat and non-perishables dried off fairly quickly, but the rice and mac were pretty much ruined. Talking with my parents on the phone, I learned that it wasn't the same box as the contents had been shipped in. Yikes!
On a similar note, back in August of 2000 I started working for a company called net32 (who have since let me go). When I arrived, the monitor I was supposed to use (a big 20-something incher)was not connected to my computer. The way the admin staff explained it, the monitor had arrived off the UPS truck with a token amount of styrofoam and cardboard attached to one corner. Mind you, this was a Dell monitor shipped from a reputable supplier. The monitor itself was broke (case as well as internals). We trans-shipped it for a replacement. The replacement came with a pretty banged-up box, but at least it worked.
The moral? I don't use UPS either, unless there is no other choice. FedEx or USPS for me.
What is your Slash Rating?
I wouldn't have gotten modded up as funny if I was being serious.
I can't speak for UPS but I did work for Fedex for several years while I was in college.
The main problem with package handling at Fedex (probably UPS too) is everything is about speed. Fedex garauntees delivery times, however without insurance they normally won't cover damaged packages. So essentially if a package arrives late, fedex loses money, if the package is damaged they do not.
If while I was working at one of their hubs, I accidently (and yes it happened) drove over a package with a forklift hardly any managers would blink an eye. However if I overlooked a package and caused it to miss a flight and arrive late, I had managers up my ass.
I can honestly say though, only a small percentage of the thousands of packages a night were damaged. Fedex is extremely conscience about their reputation with the public. Being much smaller than UPS or USPS it is hard for them to compete on price alone, so they attempt to gain custmers by building a reputation of 100% reliabe deliveries.
After working for several years in the industry, I would say the secret to undamaged delivery is to package whatever you are shipping extremely well! I could always tell what packages that i handled were shipped by fellow employees, they were usually packed behind at least 2 inches of steel box.
Hi!d li ne.html
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I used to work for UPS in Canada as a customer service phone dude. I also saw many things in the warehouse and lots of broken boxes.
Now I'm sorry but those pictures show some damn flimsy boxes. The boxes that Heinz uses to ship plastic ketchup bottles were not designed to handle heavy hard objects, no matter how much duct tape you use.
If you just ASK the guy taking your order what the recommended packaging is for such a product, all will be revealed. And yes, there are many kinds of cardboard.
http://www.ups.com/using/services/packaging/gui
Courier companies actually have box testing labs and they know what you need.
I also know from experience that most people don't want to go through the trouble of proper packaging.
I mean, your boxes travelled ~1/8 the way around the planet. Do you have any idea of the number of people, conveyor belts, OTHER IMPROPERLY PACKAGED boxes and bumps your stuff is going to go through? And no, warehouse people DON'T go around kicking boxes! They're too busy and tired! Believe me. Try working in a warehouse for a few days and see how much energy you have left.
And why didn't you keep the original boxes the stuff came in? The foam inserts are very useful.
And as for UPS not insuring to the US, BULLSH*T.
http://www.ups.com/canada/using/services/accs/e
Looks like someone should have done their homework.
this guy had 3 old computers laying around and wanted to get mentioned on slashdot. he made up some sob story about UPS (everyone's favorite scapegoat) and took his sledgehammer to the cases (and a tupperware container for good measure). C'mon, $5000 worth of equipment and no insurance??
and a PowerTower is a "workhorse"?!
Has the anthrax scare affected delivery times, and package conditions?
I moved from California to Florida last year. On each of my businees trips back to California I would ship a little more of the gear I had to leave behind on my moving trip. I generally used UPS, but UPS will not ship a complete computer unless it is in its original packaging. Like most people on Slashdot, I build my own computers; and the packaging a case comes in was not designed for a fully loaded computer. So this last trip I used FedEx Ground, shipping on my personal account with them. Two days after shipping I knew I had a problem when my tracking numbers yielded no results on their web site.
Three of the packages left the Oakland FedEx depot with someone else's name and address on them, and one went back to the depot. Someone had stuck NEW tracking numbers over the old ones AFTER my paperwork had been completed and given back to me with tracking stickers affixed.
It took nearly a week of harassing FedEx Ground Tracking to locate the packaged. I resorted to harassment when the first day of calls yielded nothing more than "Those are not valid tracking numbers according to the system, so I can not help you." I was never 'offered' to speak to a manager, I had to demand it.
My packages were finally located by matching the WEIGHTS(!) of my boxes to boxes that left the depot on the same day. One had to be intercepted before it was delivered to someone else.
In the end it turned out well, but not without a lot of aggrivation and phone calls.
I wish anyone well who ships anything valuable. Nobody will care for your posessions the way you would.
-Chris
-- This sig is only a test. If this were a real sig it would say something witty. --
I agree wholeheartedly.. Avoid shipping anything remotely fragile with them if you can help it. However, if you MUST use them, here are some tips.
:)
First off, the packing must be solid. If you can't stand on top of the sealed box and jump up and down on it without breaking it, you haven't packed it well enough. No, I'm NOT kidding. Your package may very well be subjected to just this type of abuse. Even if its handled correctly, there will likely be at minium several hundred pounds of packages stacked on top of it in a tight configuration. If the box gives at all, its going to collapse long before it reaches its destination.
If the box weighs over 70 pounds, its not going to be transported over internal conveyor belts but instead on special irregular carts. This has the potential to expose the package to a number of other abuses, but its less likely to suffer any extreme falls or belt jams and will also likely not have any packages stacked on top of it as the irregulars are typically loaded last.
If you use wooden crates to send something, the crates will probably fall apart in the shipment.
If you use bands to hold the packages together, if the package weighs more than 70 pounds, the bands will likely be used as handles. Don't expect the bands to hold the package together. If the package can't survive without the bands, its probably not going to survive.
And of course, make sure its really insured. UPS only covers $100 of insurance per package unless you purchase more. If you paid for insurance and the package wasn't covered, I'd have words with them. However, they DO investigate insurance claims and can be rather picky about improper packaging.
Good luck.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
I had a friend who worked for a company that mostly did touchscreens. Part of their business involved people shipping them monitors to be custom retrofitted with touchscreens (don't know why) and then shipped back. He said that they originally used to use UPS, but fully HALF of the monitors got damaged in shipment. No joke: 50%.
I'm not sure what vendor Dell had used to ship them, but we received 8 Dell workstations that were delivered in a truck with a huge gaping hole in the roof. Plus, it was raining that day. All the boxes were soaked, and many of the motherboards were damaged. A couple of the boxes were even crushed and the cases of the machines inside were bent. Unfortunately we needed the boxes immediately, so we signed for them and went through the task of getting Dell to come out and replace the broken stuff. My recommendation to anyone is to make sure the boxes are in good condition _before_ you sign for them (if you're buying something). If the box is even slightly abused, refuse it.
This really doesn't help if you are sending stuff to yourself...
i have a great idea...save some space in your car, and put all your crap you don't want broken in there! it works for me. tv, stereo, computer...they go in the car, with me. if you don't want it broken, take some personal responsibility for it, and move it yourself.
The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe.
...for that very reason. We're a VAR so we often have clients send us stuff from out of state and we, of course, ship stuff out all the time. We were loyal UPS customers up until about a year ago when we noticed their quality of handling take a real dive. We've switched to Fedex completely as of a couple of months ago and tell all our clients to do the same.
I dunno what the problem is. Maybe some management types need to get shipped, er, fired.
Ordered a bigazz monitor (21" CTX) from pcconnection.com. First one showed up looking like it had been delivered by airdrop... sans parachute. Called pcconnection before I even opened it, of course it didn't work. They said to ship it back, they'd cover shipping and they'd send a replacement. Next morning, less than 12 hours after I talked to them, I had the replacement. (shipped AirborneExpress) Mind you, this is a big sucka. 81 pounds. Well, this one didn't work either. They offered a different (more expensive) monitor at no extra cost. Again less than 12 hours later I had an Airborne Express delivery person at my door. They gave me the new monitor and picked up the second bad one to be shipped back to pcconnection. In all of this business I talked to ONE PERSON. My "case" wasn't handed off from service rep to service rep. I didn't get on a wait list when I called, I got "my" rep. All of that shipping cost them a lot of money but they treated me like a God. Incredibly well handled on their part.
I know you are upset but this is partly your fault. Bubble wrap means nothing and cardboard and bubblewrap does not equate to good packing. How do I know? I worked nights for UPS for 4 years unloading, loading, and sorting customer packages. I currently ship 2-3 packages every day for my wife's home based business.
Check out the Anal Retentive Packer! He gets it mostly right.
http://www.twaze.com/arp/arp.html
So how do you ship a computer by UPS or anyone else and get it there looking good?
1. Hire a pro who knows what they are doing to to pack it using foam fill and other professional toys you don't have at home. The $60 or $70 you would have paid looking not so bad now.
I have to do this on a budget can you teach me to pack like a man? OK.
1. Box in a Box. This is a cardinal rule of packaging. You have an outer container that is reinforced rigid. You can cut sheets of styrofoam for braces which are cheap (Home Depot or Lowes look near the insulation). Provide dead area space or fill with peanuts to the inner container or brace which holds your equipment firmly. Consider shrinkwrap or lightweight plactic trash bag taped around the equipment to keep out dust and smushed packing material. Gateway and Dell usually just use custom fit styrofoam braces in new boxes and that works fine. You may have to improvise here.
2. Use NEW cardboard boxes. If you can afford a killer rig you can afford some new cardboard boxes. At least get ones that are LIKE NEW. The corners should be unbent, not covered in tape, no holes where holes don't belong. The reality is that boxes in poor shape get only get worse during shipping and get less respect by many handlers (not to be mean but if it's hard to pickup because the corners are all soft it's not going to get the best possible handling). Find some Gateway or Dell boxes that your neighbors are tossing after unwrapping the new system.
3. Minimize the time in the system as much as you can afford. Ship 2 day or 3 day service avoiding the lowest common denominator of ground service if you can. Every day in the system is a day exposed to danger. Dell charges you $100 shipping do you think they make much profit on that? They pack well and probably don't make a lot of money on shipping.
4. Make sure you include written shipto, shipfrom, contents list inside the package (both if you paid attention to 1 above).
5. Strap it on the outside securely with heavy duty shipping tape (spend $5,$10 at stapes or your home improvement store).
6. If it's worth $2K or $3K insure it!
Your goal is that you should be able to drop the box 2 feet or kick it hard with a work boot and the contents have a fighting chance. Don't expect sleep deprived college students to baby you package regardless of weather you label it fragile or not.
Your package should NOT rattle or shift weight around when tipped side to side.
Good Luck!
Its sad that if want anyone to take responsibility for their actions you have to threaten them with a lawsuit. Just keeps the courts clogged and lawyers churning out of law schools.
HT
UPS does have a (800) number that costs money. Each call costs money. Explain to the representatives that if you don't get your claim you will just keep calling. Calculate each call to equal about $10 (approx. 15 mins on the phone.). Things start adding up quick!
I find it usefull to let them know your just gonna keep calling until you get your way.
The box damage looks like the boxes were improperly filled. I'm not trying to be unempathtic here, but if your box can't handle having 10 other boxes on top of it without collapsing, then don't ship it. The box damage in the photographs is consistent with a box that either had it's packaging settle or was underpacked structurally. Good luck trying to get money out of them, if I were receiving your claim I'd have a hard time justifying a payout. Luckily I don't work for a shipping company so you may have better luck ;-) Cheers.
I gave up shipping computer equipment by UPS - no amount of packiging, padding would avoid freight damage with them.
Trying to get reimbursed is a tremendous hassle. They want to see the original package material and their attitude is towards saving the company money - against you, the customer. I did it once. They sent a company which took the computer and put it in a new housing - different, of cause. Maybe they get taken advantage off, I am not blaming them for that but for the unability to manage damage free movement of goods correctly padded (double boxed with cushioning).
It is not only the material damage, but also the time lost, hassle to get replacement equipment for something planned.
I am still using UPS for small things, chips, books - material which can survive a 6' free fall drop on concrete in the shipping box.
The impact on computer equipment which was damaged in transport with them was impressive. Housings bent, warped and shifted. Anything with a mass inside the computer got so much momentum by impact that suspensions were bend and parts got loose. CPU heat sinks came off and moved around in the housing. Seeing this kind of damage - similar to the original poster - on a repeated basis left me with no other choice but to avoid them.
I use Fedex and USPS which cost more but not when the overhead for damages is accounted for.
Up here in Canada, UPS is actually suing our postal system its so good. I have never had a something shipped xpresspost even have slight damage on the cardboard boxes, and they are FAR cheaper than UPS or FedEx.
Yah, same here. We had a machine arrive in perfect condition. Nice clean box, not even a scratch. But when we opened it the keyboard inside was crushed with a forklift tire track across it!
When I completed my training for the military, I had to send four boxes across country from the west coast to the east coast via UPS. I paid for full insurance on everything, packed everything in original packaging and I received one package intact - at my home of record in NY - when I should have received all of them in VA. My TV was cracked (plastic only) but still usable, my stereo was ruined beyond use, a package containing some PC games and my Playstation ended up in FL before it disappeared for good, and the final package with two books was mailed to me using the USPS (safely) to VA from NY.
Recently one of my friends had built a computer for his brother living at home in MN. He made the machine, then packed it all in the cases' original packaging with some additional protection. When his brother received it, there was a huge dent in the top side of the case, ruining the CD-ROM and making it impossible to remove or add any 5.25" or 3.5" devices that would occupy those bays.
In both cases we had maximum insurance on the packages. When asked repeatively about compensation for these mishaps, we are told insurance doesn't protect against damage to goods shipped. Apparently insurance protects only against robbery, natural disasters, and other such unlikely events.
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless." - Tao of Programming
Those boxes look like they're no more than one layer thick.
You need to use something with some burst strength. Find a friend who is a tech, or go down to the nearst clone house and get a monitor box.
A few minutes with the ginzu, and you can make just about any monitor foam fit any monitor.
If you want your data to survive, pull the drives, wrap them in antistatic bags, roll them in something soft, and put them in your carryon.
man i am soo sorry for your loss but thats what it is, your loss. UPS will and has gone to court over the smallest little thing so as not to pay out. they can and will spend 50 bucks so they won't have to pay out 25. They have an entire team of on staff lawyers (souless bastards that they are) to deal with this kinda stuff. When i worked for them (4 years ago) the employees would always screw arround with the packages, use them as soccer balls ect....
and MY GOSH THE THEFT RATE WAS THROUGH THE F*#KING ROOF!!! we had people stealing whole computers, clothes, jewlry, whatever was arround. Hell we even had an entire Mainframe "go missing" that was sent from IBM, and they fought that one for almost a year. your lucky you even got your computer. still though I would fight the @ssholes.
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
Otherwise it would be free to ship! This is ridiculous, almost like the evil #)$)holes at first american computer, fraudulant jerks.
Don't!
And even if you do have the original styrofoam, pack plastic peanuts into every little gap. (Put the machine in a bag beforehand so you don't have floppy drives full of peanut crumbs).
Peanuts work fine IF (and only if) you compact them as much as possible to prevent the contents from shifting as the box gets drop-kicked from hell to breakfast.
Fedex has done the same amount of damage to some monitors that where shipped from NH to MD about 6 months ago. The boxes where crushed. Not one monitor worked anymore and 2 smoked when we plugged them in. We even had insurance on the shippment but it was next to impossible to even clam it as you needed papers showing when they where bought, the price, etc and when a monitor is 3 - 4 years old in a company that has had 3 mergers, Its next to impossible to find papers.
So what can a person do to a PC or Mac that'll help make it shipping resistant? Loctite on the screws? Straps on the ram?
And then triple-packing-tape every seam!!! :)
"Hey, Leroy, what does fra-gil-e mean?" "I dunno Cletus. Lets drop it off this building."
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
I shipped a package to France from US by UPS Express Mail, but was returned back without delivery. UPS Express Mail in France is managed by an affilliate of US UPS (and unrelated to the French Mail services), and they simply failed to even try to deliver.
Very normal package. When I brought this up to UPS, I was told that they were supposed to attempt delivery 3 times. They never did, as shown on UPS own records.
Ask about a refund. UPS considers that there is no reason for a refund, since I cannot prove they didn't attempt delivery, even though the returned documentation shows no delivery attempt! I called DC center to file a claim. Same response.
US UPS sucks! Would I use no UPS Express Mail, the delivery would have been made by the French Mail services, and would have been slightly cheaper!
My main beef with UPS is their poorly trained desk clerks. Lots of them receive little or no education about federal haz-mat laws or UPS's own laws regarding explosives and firearms.
An ignorant UPS clerk cost me double the normal amount of shipping once because she didn't know a percussion revolver isn't legally a firearm under Federal law. If they don't teach their clerks basic things like this, it's not a real big surprise that some of their package handlers are less than gentle with a packaged marked 'fragile'.
An even bigger mistake, he shipped it without those little shock-sensitive sticker things they have now, so you can just look at the box and if the shock sticker has gone off, you have evidence of what happened in transit.
I think it's more than safe to say that his packages sustained some shock...
The best way to ship is to sign up for a FedEx corporate acct. You can either secure it in a registered company's name or in an individual's name if secured by a major credit card.
Then ship everything FedEx Express (3+ day). Sure, it's a bit more expensive, but if they see you have a corporate account they will LITERALLY bend over backwards to accomodate you.
Point in hand, I had airplane tickets shipped FedEx Express to a friend using my corporate account to Michigan. They were to arrive 3 days before the flight. On that day, a snowstorm dropped several feet of snow on the ground. I called FedEx and explained the situation, including indicating my account status. The location manager in Michigan personally drove the package in his own car to my friend's door, in the snow.
I only ship things UPS when I want what the latest craze in origami is...
box as a target. This Integration guy I was working with told me a story of how it must have been a challenge for UPS because they would destroy anything. His company would ship a server, clearly marked and all and the box would be destroyed (thank god for insurance). Well they built a wooden crate that they would use, the very first time it was shipped it was destroyed. So they built another one covering the corners with steel. Same result. They ended up building a steel case with foam padding. Apparently UPS just couldn't destroy that one.
My mom's pc fried. She lives in a very rural town in Texas, and I live in Phoenix AZ. So
the usual fix (let's go SHOPPING!) wasn't really
an option this time around.
So anyway, I get her to mail me a hard drive,
and while waiting for it, threw a machine together
(a hella nice machine, my mom's worth it), and
I considered how to ship it back.
I had a whole bunch of options:
take it to the airport and ship it on southwest airlines, fly southwest myself with the pc as luggage, drive (24 hours+ each way),
or ship it by courier. Well, I packed it (pretty well, if I do say so), and took it to the local
Mailboxes Etc. clone. They told me straight up,
to unpack it, and pay them to repack it, or else
(1) it probably would be damaged and
(2) it can't be insured if I pack it.
Shipping was a pretty expensive ticket too. But you know what? I paid. And you know what else?
the package arrived beautifully packed, and 100%
working.
I'd do it again, especially now!
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
You can get cheap ($5-$25) accelerometers which are attached to the outside of the box in plain view of the shipper and everyone else. I've mostly seen them used for pallets and containers, but there are some for regular boxes.
Unfortunately, the only company I'm seeing online is Impact Register
A week later, I still had not gotten it. I got the tracking number, finally got someone at UPS to acknowledge where it was. When I got it, the package was TOTALLY mangled. Literally, the papers inside from the supplier fell out the holes in the box as I brought it in. One whole side of the box had been replaced with brown packing paper. FOrtunately, it was just a case, and designed to take a beating... but this was ridivulous. UPS claimed that the reason for not delivering it in a timely fashion was that "the addressee was not at that address," and forced me to come to the counter to get it.
Now, I KNOW my UPS guy, and I asked him today about the package. He claimed he had never seen the package. He knows me by name, delivers at my house and my work, and I order from Amazon weekly at least. My suspicion? Someone ripped the hell out of the box, then it had to be "inspected" ("Inspect" was written on the box.) They then decided that, in order to get out of not meeting their two day guarantee, they would claim the addressee was unknown.
In a word, UPS sucks and I doubt I'll use them again (even though I've never had a problem in the past.) If it was just the box getting mangled, OK. But this was ridiculous.
No one stole anything :-b
I worked for UPS in West Michigan for about a year [1999-2000]. One of my jobs was to unload a semi full of IBM desktops, thinkpads, NEC monitors, and HP printers and scanners [some other computer items] every night. This ment hundreds of desktops went through my hands in the matter of 1 hour or less [my shift was only 4 hours]. Although they were not handled with kid gloves, I never saw one that ended up like that. Trust me when I tell you that if that had come through our site we would've heard about it from our managers.
However, I have seen pacakages this bad or worse. It happens. The logistics of moving insane amounts of packages in short periods of time mean that problems are bound to arise. Plus there is a serious human factor involved. Tired, hurried, inexperienced, or lazy workers can cause this sort of thing. Also managers directly effect the quality of the work being done. UPS has the training to properly handle packages out there, but like anywhere, it's up to the workers and managers to implement.
I can't say much about claims, other than that they tell us the amounts that they pay out every year and its hefty.
As to what could've led to this, any number of things. A bad wall [imagine a giant game of tetris in a semi] could have done it, a jam in a chute, it could've gotten caught on the belt, or even a mad worker [it happens, fast food workers spit in your burger too]. Another possiblity is that heavy packages [over 70#s] were sent too early on the belt and crushed the pachages. Heavy packages are saved until the end of the night to try and prevent this.
One last thing November and December are the times of the year to be extra careful about packaging and the like. The numbers of packages that are handled during these times of the year increase significantly.
weso
"I like my sugar with coffee and cream." - Beastie Boys
Working for a different courier company as I do...
A lot of stuff we carry is of low intrinsic value. Sure, the legal documents relate to high value transactions but the value of the documents is no more than the re-cycling value of the paper. The finiancial loss is minimal.
Anything with an intrinsic value (PCs or diamonds) should always be insured. While the risk of loss is low the effects on the individual can be considerable.
The terms and conditions of carriage usually indemnify (sp?) the carrier against loss... The expectation being that insurance will be taken out on valuable goods.
At least that's how it seems to me. My company has had servers damaged by UPS a couple of times. I have even seen servers in wooden boxes get damaged. Recently we sent a bunch out to Microsoft for a demo, and they got absolutely destroyed. They are now trophies in the ProServ department.
"This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who."
I figured I was too unmotivated to join a gym so when I saw a UPS job poster on campus I decided to join up. I've been working preload/splitting for about 4 months now. Here's some of my insight on the goings on at UPS and an analysis of what happened to your package.
The packages arrive at the center in 18 wheelers that get parked up against bays. "Unloaders" take regular boxes and put them on rollers. However, if a box is too heavy or it's an irregularly shaped item it gets put down the side of the bay inside the building. These irregular items are referred to in UPS lingo as "irregs" (ee-regs). An "irreg" can range from truck tires to rolls of carpet to really heavy regular looking square boxes. If you can imagine it, UPS ships it unless federally prohibited.
The rollers that the regular packages get placed on go to a bank of "sorters". These are people physically reading the labels and moving the boxes into color-coded chutes that lead to conveyor belts. The belts move the packages through a complicated maze or chutes and other belts. The packages end up in the section of the center that handles the part of town the address is in. This is the preload section.
The preload section consists of a wide, waist high conveyor belt with UPS "pullman brown" colored "package cars" (the brown trucks) backed up along the sides. The belt splits the area of town down the center such as east and west. That determines which side of the belt the trucks are parked on. The two preloaders at the front of the belt look at all the labels and "split" the packages according to which side of town it belongs in. The "splitters" also need to pull off the "mis-sort" packages with addresses outside the boundaries of that particular preload belt. One of the splitters normally has access to a "return" belt that leads back to the sorters.
Preloaders scan the labels for addresses they're responsible for. When they see one they check if it requires special handling such as hazardous materials or premium service packages that need to be delivered by a certain time of day. The inside of the trucks have a sequence to them that follow the order of stops the driver makes. Hence, a package normally gets put in a section of the truck corresponding to a section of its route. There are exceptions to the placement of packages in cases where it's a hazardous material, a large irregular shape, too heavy to be on a shelf or it's a premium package.
The driver shows up and makes his stops and we all live happily ever after except for you. Why?
After I was done looking at your pictures I scrolled around wondering if I'd missed pictures of the other boxes where all this stuff was shipped in. Putting all those heavy incompatibly shaped items in one box must have made it very heavy and unwieldy. Your box ended up being an "irreg" which means instead of going for a ride on conveyor belts, people had to physically move it around.
Someone had to lift it onto a trolley, carry it off the trolly, sort it, take it to the proper preload area, lift it on a fork lift, and put it on the preload belt. What if it was mis-sorted? Someone had to pull it off the belt and the process started all over again. What's more, all of that was happening while your electronics got to hang out with all the other "irregs" like steel pipes, buckets of mystery solutions, furniture, etc. Notice I didn't even mention the fact that the preloader and driver had to carry it around, too.
If you would have individually packaged the items it might have cost a little more but so would have getting insurance. There's no doubt in my mind that your components would have arrived safely had you packaged them individually. The damage mostly came from the things in the box smacking up against each other. No amount of care would have prevented that.
My personal experience at UPS has been that they do care if employees are treating the packages right. This also includes safety from theft. They accomplish this through regular spying on workers in the course of their duties as well as metal detectors and security guards at the entrance to the center.
If you disagree then it must be overrated, redundant or trolling.
I shipped my home-built dual processor box from Detroit to England via USPS last year, 2nd day air. I insured it for $2k and packed it in tight-fitting foam in a nice box, just like a new machine ships. It arrived smashed, with the steel drive brackets shorn and the case deformed, the mainboard sprung in the warped case. USPS is a government beaurocracy. They wouldn't pay since their "internal procedures" require a receipt showing value, and I'd bought the parts from friends, at shows, etc. Also I (wrongly) believed my skill in aggregating the components and installing the OS's would have some value. In the end I got back $600.
Lesson learned, stick with pure commercial ventures like FedEX.
After they managed to damage three packages for me in less then a year, UPSmade my permanent shit list. I'm now willing to pay extra to have things shipped by FedEx or USPS Priority mail.
USPS Priority mail is a pretty good deal for small packages and for important-but-not-critial documents.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
The boxes were probably cut open at customs. They do that often here in Hawaii (even for mail from US -- go know why).
Since customs is not expected to glue them back...
You recieved it on time right? Let's just think
of UPS as UDPs. You get it fast, but it may
have a few bytes taken out of it!
-1: Corny
-J
I posted this story several days ago and it was rejected.
Is this a joke?
UPS guys are not know for their industriousness. They're not bad workers by any measuring stick but they don't gen'lly go out of their way to do extra work.
That kind of damage would require a lot of extra work. Do you mean to tell me you shipped a bunch of computers in one box? Are you an idiot?
Fie! I say to this post! Fie!
This
Just to Preface, All words below are my own opinion and are not the opinions of my employer...
Having said that little disclaimer, I am a tech with UPS, and have had the experience of having shipped (and recieved) many computers via this service, and also sent my own computer via UPS & Fedex.
The service (and box damage) is not much different.
But I always made sure to get the extra insurance, never needed it but...
Also as part of my job, I do claims inspections on computers.. From the pictures, I would recommend a denial -- improper packing. Peanuts & bubble wrap are not good materials. Stryform inserts, like the cases orginially shipped with, are what is needed. They provide support & buffer room.
And yes, remember the people who handle these packages take "fragile" as a challenge...
The advantage of the palettized approach is that the bundle is too heavy to lift manually. Operators are thus forced to use a forklift which has a much gentler way of setting things down. My equipment took no damage whatsoever from a total of 12000 miles of travel.
Christ... and I thought the opening scene from Ace Ventura was excessive. Turns out the thinly-veiled UPS spoof is business as usual for the REAL UPS.
It ceratinly was a lot more funny when Jim Carrey did it than when you find out that's the real McCoy.
This is something I just got after talking to CS at UPS and speaking to the supervisor there. The address to send UPS complaints to is:
UPS
c/o Jim Kelly
55 Glenlake Parkway NE
Atlanta, GA 30328
*********
I just had an issue where they shipped off my books to Kansas after a couple failed attempts (at the wrong address), and I live in Texas. What the....
My company had a similar experience with UPS. We received two Sun SPARCarray 100-series disc chassis from New Jersey (shipped to Texas). Now, if you're not familiar with these particular pieces of Sun kit, they're 75-pound rackmountable steel safety cages with some SCSI and FCAL intelligence. If you drop one on your foot, you will be laid up for a week or two with a broken foot. In short, they're just the sort of thing that OSHA doesn't want your employees to be lugging about, but they're exactly what you'd trust to keep your discs safe from accidental bumps and vibration. We received one double-boxed with foam-rubber and styrofoam padding. The first words out of my floor tech's mouth was "Uhm, it's round." The box was damn-near spherical, and the array itself was twisted. We received the other one, originally boxed the same way, but afterwards in a completely trashed (shredded?) box. Both were absolutely worthless. Really, unless UPS typically ships via trebuchet, I have no way of knowing how this happened. More recently, I received an SGI Octane shipped via UPS (I forgot to tell the vendor to ship FedEx). Nothing in that machine was straight. Again, if you've never seen an Octane in-person, you need to know that it takes two people to safely move it any distance--it's a very sturdy computer. The partitions between the XIO bays were rippled, the computer wouldn't POST, the skins were crunched, and all the access handles were broken-off. Luckily, since money had changed hands across both transactions, it was fairly easy to tell UPS exactly what they owed us. We got replacement equipment each time, and the vendor was reimbursed. Since you're shipping your own stuff, UPS will probably try to strong-arm you into shutting up. Don't. Get an attorney. If nothing else, get him/her to write a letter on your behalf. Get an appraisal of what the equipment was worth, and get an appraisal of what the equipment would cost to repair. The most you can expect to get out of them is the lesser of the two appraisals plus legal fees. As other people have told you, this is a great (albeit painful) opportunity for a lot of people to learn a lesson: If the box looks mangled, do not sign for it. Ever. Tell UPS/FedEx/whomever to take it back, and tell them that you want a claim form on the spot. This will immediately trigger an investigation, and the package will be taken back to the carrier's inspection center.
Pining for the days when The Glorious MEEPT!!! graced SlapDash with his wisdom.
Guess I'll post this one anonymously.. ;-)
:-)
I used to work for UPS on the preload shift, loading the package cars. Our shift started anywhere from 2 - 5 am depending on how busy things were. Specifically, I loaded the delivery trucks for a particular area.
So let me tell you a few things about UPS, at least the location where I worked. I have reason to believe this is fairly accurate for any UPS, at least in North America.
First and foremost, there is a huge division between the union workers and management at UPS, and management treats the union workers like shit.
The ironic thing is, the part-time workers like those on my shift are an even lower form of species. The drivers and the management and the union itself treated us like shit.
Working at UPS sucked, in a lot of ways.
But in regards to damaged packages....
Picture yourself working at UPS. You've got anywhre from four to seven trucks you're responsible for loading. You watch the conveyor belt as any number of packages roll by, looking for ones that match your area. When you find it, you pick it up, load it in a particular place in a particular shelf on a particular side of a particular truck, then you come back out go to where you left off, and look for the next package.
Imagine now, that it gets busy, and the packages are coming really fast. You start to move a bit faster, and you're barely keeping up. Then some big 130lb package comes along that's about two inches square. (Ok.. not quite, but you get the point..)
So like a good employee who follows his training, you ask someone else for help pulling it off the belt. Of course, this person can't come right away, so you stop the belt. Just as you get it off the belt, the supervisor comes along and yells at you for stopping the belt.
So you're an intelligent person, you can learn. Next time, you don't stop the belt, but your package is five trucks past your last truck by the time you and your buddy get it off the belt and back to your area. As a result, you miss a bunch of packages, that go down to the end and have to be brought back around to the beginning of the belt. The supervisor does this, and comes by to yell at you for missing packages while he's at it.
So next time, you ignore the rules, and you pull the nasty 130lb monster off the belt by yourself, managing somehow not to throw your back out. The supervisor catches you, and yells at you.
The next thing that happens, is a deluge of packages. While the 10 other loaders are standing around doing nothing, you're seemingly getting every package that comes out of the trailer. There's no way you can load them all. You're not allowed to stop the belt. You've got one choice left. You stand in one place, and stack packages up on the ground beside you, hoping it'll slow down enough for you to start catching up on the backlog.
Yes, the supervisor comes by and yells at you for stacking packages on the floor. Load them right away, it's faster. But don't miss any, and don't stop the belt.
So what's left? Actually a variety of options, including: throwing, tossing, dropping, lobbing, rolling, sliding, hucking, pitching... oh I'm sure I could think of others. If the supervisor catches you, sure, you'll get yelled at, but if you keep your eyes open, you can time it so you don't get caught most of the time.
What was that crunch sound? Who cares? Certainly management doesn't, and why should I get yelled at every day?
And in case you don't believe me... oh.. the stories I could tell!
My favorite would have to be a particular day the week before Christmas. Our shift started at 2:00am, and typically finished around 9:45 at this time of year. That's 7 hour and 45 minutes for the math-impaired. Did I mention we only got a 10 minute UNPAID break for the whole shift? Did I mention that when we complained about it (frequently) we were told it would be no problem to make the break longer, we'd just start the shift earlier.
So.. that's nearly eight hours of uninterrupted physical labour, constant standing, reading, walking, some running.. oh.. and lots of throwing of course.
The day was going ok until around 7am.. and then the floodgates opened, and it seemed like every package was for my trucks. Trucks.. all seven of them. While everyone else was loading four or five trucks, I had seven. And I was right next to the trailers, so I got to read everyone else's packages further down the line too..
I started near the trailers, and there was a shitload of packages for me coming out. I knew I couldn't load them all, so I started pulling them off and stacking them on the floor. Even so, I couldn't keep up, and I had to walk backward to keep up with the leading edge of the wave.
I passed my first truck, second, third.. eventually I was standing at the end of my seventh, pulling packages and stacking them as fast as I could. Within minutes I had a whole wall. In the meantime, the guy loading next to me was standing on the other side, catching the packages I missed and helping me stack.
The pile got so high that I couldn't reach the top anymore, so I started a new layer. I heard people at the end of the line yelling about how I was missing my packages. On the other side of the wall, one of the supervisors started screaming at me.
About this time, the drivers started arriving. Of my seven drivers, six made sure to yell at me. I got yelled at by four seperate supervisors, and the manager. And a variety of other people made insulting remarks. All my drivers left late because they had to do a lot of their own loading. Oddly, their trucks were remarkably full that day. I can't imagine why.
So, while it was probably some poor overworked underpaid abused schmuck who tossed your computer and broke it to bits, the only thing he really did wrong was apply for the job in the first place. The true fault lies with management.
I finally quit when my doctor told me I was thrashing my knees. Was one of the best things I ever did.
You didn't ship that thing via Redmond, did you?
so what, how did this post make it past the slashdot censors ? you whining bastard. i've noticed that almost every web bbs forum has been taken over by whining,naive canadians who don't read disclaimers or manuals.
Perhaps it was Ace Ventura ...pet detective ;)
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
If you do not double box your electronic equipment when shipping UPS, they are not responsible for any damage that your equipment may have suffered. It's part of their terms and conditions whan shipping with them. Maybe you should have read the fine print. You're screwed and you deserve it so quit your bitchin'
Around here a few years back (In Minnesota) there was a guy that put an undercover camera in the distributing rooms for UPS, and it showed them playing basketball with packages, hitting them, pushing them across the floor with hockey sticks, you name it. A bunch of newscasters took and wrote a report on this, and a LOT of people got pissed off at UPS.
;)
One idea is to give some of your local media accesses a call. Maybe the local paper, or maybe suggest it for one of those "undercover eyewitness" segments on TV news, ect. UPS will be very embarassed, probably reimburse your money, and they might even fire those morons that keep trashing your packages. I'd love to see those jockqueens out in the middle of the streets on a cold Canadian night.
Hope that helps,
-Kyle
Yea, that package is quite torn up, I see packages like that often. I have to say though, a lot of blame has to go to the customer. Most packages I've found that get damaged are because of a few reasons:
- Not taped well enough
- Reusing an old box that is already close to falling apart
- Not insulating the areas inside the box with styrofoam or some other insulator to prevent the contents from moving around inside and/or puncturing the box, and also the contents are only being protected by a thin layer of cardboard
- Extremely uneven weight distribution, makes it harder to load/sort/unload/etc which can cause UPS workers (like me) to drop it
You have to understand that packages are not treated with utmost care, no matter what delivery service you go with. You have to make sure that your box can withstand a fair amount of tossing/moving/weight/bumping/puncturing (due to sharp edges that exist around the building's that packages are being sorted in). There are occasions where I'm sure that UPS workers are to blame, but for the most part, it's the customer, they work us hard, speed is important to them, so handling packages like they were made of glass is not of concern to UPS workers. They do keep an eye on preventing workers from doing anything that can damage the package and it's contents, but we work fast, really fast, it's hard work. Throwing/kicking/hitting/etc packages is not allowed, it happens though, but not to the extent where the package and it's contents may be damaged, unless of course it isn't packaged properly.
btw, I'm sure you've received or seen the boxes that Dell and other companies ship their products in (actually I've found a few companies are quite ignorant on how they ship their products, but they are generally small companies). Those boxes have a good deal of styrofoam, or air packs, or some sort of filler. The Dell boxes in particular (I sort a lot of those) are very well protected, I'm sure you could drop it from a 5 story building without damaging the contents. Can't always blame the company, but I agree on one thing, companies should be help more accountable. I would recommend that UPS do more to prevent this sort of bad packaging.
I work at the Orlando Hub, a very large facility. I sort probably over 4000 packages every night Mon-Fri in only about 3 hours a night. It's hard work, but I get paid well. I just have to say one thing, if you use good packaging, you should have very little to worry about. I almost never see a good package get damaged to such an extent that the contents would be damaged. Actually I can't remember any.
rzbx
Question everything.
I remember a while ago, Consumer Reports shipped some equipment in packages that told how badly they were jostled.
FedEx was the roughest, then UPS and then USPS. Which kinda makes sense, since FedEx was also the most prompt, and USPS was the slowest.
Of course, this doesn't mean that sometimes things are really badly damaged. But I must ask, why did all that stuff get shipped in ONE BOX? You're just asking for trouble.
In a related story I had a 21" Sun monitor shipped via Fedex(not my choice), they pulled it out, put it on the ground then they ROLLED it end over end to my door. luckily it didn't damage anyhting, but the horror of seeing an item that expensive being rolled.....
well you get the picture.
A year+ ago I've purchased an AOpen HX08 full tower (good case btw). Brand new.. thick styrofoam packaging, etc.. the top removable part (see pic) was bent ~4 inches inward in one place toward the front. The impact, so great, bent one of the interior floppy drive brackets.
The styrofoam corner wedges were cracked on almost all the boxes. I really don't understand what more we could have done. And don't give me any crap about "insurance"; the stuff WAS insured, but what the hell is the point of paying a "courier" to "courier" something if they're effectively going to throw half of it off a cliff at random?
This thread has generated more replies than any of the Sept. 11 threads did. No, I'm not complaining about priorities either. This is quite important. With 1K+ posts, it's gonna be hard for anything to get moderated in here...
Toolbox: I have had tools stolen from me during moves from major moving companies, and not realized it until way after the claim period....
Loose change jar/stamps/jewelry: I also had a roll of stamps lifted once, so I would never entrust anything that has obvious value and is easily liquidated/hawked.
Toilet cleaner, spay paint, paint thinner, etc: Moving company specifically forbade these items. And in this day and age, any spillage that occurrs in transit is likely to prompt a phone call to your friendly FBI office.
I love when posts that are wrong get marked as insightful. If you read the fine print, his package is not covered, any good shipping counter knows this.
Offer it a lucrative job with a great work environment which requires a security clearance?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Perhaps the result of this will apply some pressure??
Where do you want to be, What are you doing to get there.
I once had a 5 gallon container of Acrylamide (50% solution) shipped to me via UPS by a chemical manufacturer. Packaged completely according to DOT regulations governing Class B poisons. Acrylamide is highly reactive, can self-react with a large release of heat and buildup of pressure in sealed containers, as well being as a neurotoxin and carcinogen.
UPS LOST THE SHIPMENT! Did they care that there might be 45 lbs of really nasty stuff lying around in one of their warehouses, perhaps dripping on packages of bundt cake being sent to Aunt Tillie? Or toxic dusts caused by the solution drying out into powder and blowing around, possibly into their employees lungs? No way! UPS could not care less.
As a result of this incident and others the company I worked for (a large multinational chemical company) pulled UPS off it's world wide list of approved shippers for hazardous materials. No hazardous products are now allowed to go out of a gate in a UPS truck.
Fedex, though - I never had a problem with shipping hazardous materials - including radioactive samples.
Obviously his usage of 'real PC' here means one that you cannot add memory to without making yourself bleed somehow.
I worked for UPS for about 3 months out of high-school. The attraction of the $12.95/hr, even at 3am was enough to get me to go do physical work. Unfortunately I've lived with an injured back and dear, fond memories of the hell I went through. I was an "Unloader" with the "promise" that I would one day rise through the ranks ("In just a couple weeks!") to being a sorter, soon I would work in air-freight, then... driving. Thats when things get really good, and you get paid a tasty sum of money. What I found out was this was only a pack of lies. I was stuffed in an unlit semi-trailer, with a conveyor belt and told to put the boxes on the belt as fast as I could. It was dusty, it was late, it was dark and I was being timed. The boxes were piled to the top. I had to jump up and pull down a box-a-lanche for each wall I got through, hundreds of Fragile boxes fell from 10 feet to the floor, or smacked on the conveyor belt. 70+ pound boxes I had to pick up, with no back support, and put on the conveyor belt that was chest high (I'm 6'4"). There was a supervisor outside who timed me, and every time he came by I had to get a better time or I would get fired. I slammed boxes on the conveyor belt to make time, boxes fell of the belt half-way up to the sorters because I didn't put them on I threw them on or they fell on from the box-o-lanche. It royally sucked and I could only take it out on the boxes. Finish a trailer? Move on to the next one, and the next one... one 15 minute break the whole night (pound about 3 mountain dews and keep going)... Fragile means nothing, I couldn't see what was written on the boxes, but even if I could I wouldn't care, I was in a hurry, and I hated your box.
The only time I enjoyed myself was when a box wripped open and about 5,000 condoms and other "toys" went flying everywhere. I wasn't allowed to touch the contents of the boxes in such a case, so I had to call the manager over...
A friend of mine used to be a manager at the local UPS depot in Addison, Illinois. Seems the UPS workers have a little "holiday" called "Fuck Fragile Fridays"
You get the picture.
heyitsme
I used UPS to ship a monitor to me 3 years ago and it was shipped in its orginal box with the orginal packing materials. This box was within yet another box surrounded by bubble wrap. This protection still was not enough. When I got the shipment I found the box extremely battered. The inside box was in just as bad condition including a puncture! The monitors bottom was completely caved in revealing the inside completely. Suffice it to say the monitor was not usable. It took me about two months to get refunded for my losses (I had insurred my package and the shipment was from AZ to WA.)
My next-door neighbor is a driver for UPS, one day we where talking and he mentioned how the kids who handle the packages and load the trucks like to try to smash them. Then they stand around and brag to each other, I swear grunt employees.
He said if you want to ship something, and not have it dropped, sat on, damaged in anyway shape or form to write "Biohazard" on it. For the added effect he suggest getting some of those stickers and slapping them on there.
How r u today???
Fun fact: The first Altair PC to roll off the assembly lines was lost in the mail.
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
Ship yourself in a box. Mark it "Fragile". See what happens. (Some guy did this in Ohio as a science project).
A place for everything, everything in its place. - Ben Franklin
I work at UPS in a suburb of Milwaukee and it's a sad fact that that's the way people treat the packages. I'm proud to say I don't work with the large boxes, so I wouldn't be handling that, but the people that do pay no regard to the contents of the packages, sometimes even throwing them (when they're forced to go faster as I mention below). If I had to blame someone, I don't know if I'd blame the employees or the management. The employees I work with are cautious for the most part, but the management works them as fast as possible. If there's a chance that we'd miss the time that our trucks have to leave they just tell us to go faster and don't care (much) about how you get there.
We're understaffed at our facility, so some people have to do the job of two and that doesn't make it any easier. It's really hard to process 5000 packages in 2 hours with 10 people (2 unloading the trucks, 1 pulling from the belt to a feeder (commonly known as a semi), 1 loading said feeder, 2 pulling/loading feeders, 1 loading a feeder, 1 sorting the packages that come down the belt, 1 person sorting the smalls (packages under 7 lbs) and 1 person putting those smalls into bags). That's 1 package every 15 seconds per person to sort it, load it, scan it and stack it in the feeder.
I've had many misdirected shipments that went via UPS.
We received a package from NASA that was shipped via UPS and it looked like someone had driven the blade of a forklift into it! This thing was very well packed with a heavy gauge box and several inches of foam sprayed into the bottom and around the equipment and then on top. This is how they pack very sensitive equipment and you couldn't possibly imagine that it could get damaged in all the packing material. The foam is wet when sprayed in, fills in every nook and cranny so nothing can move, and hardens quickly. Yet, somehow the industrious folks at UPS will find a way to smash anything! It wasn't even labeled fragile, but I guess they knew it had to be if it came from NASA! This wasn't the only damaged shipment we've received from UPS where I work. It seems that every third shipment or so from UPS arrives broken.
I only ship FedEx or Airborne Express when I have a choice these days. I've never had a damaged or lost shipment with either.
Just be sure to wear the gold uniform when you beam down -- you know what happens when you wear the red one.
Here's an idea .. don't ship it. If the customs agents are with you they are less likely to man handle your stuff. Shipping however ... you are just asking for trouble.
Code softly but carry a big magnet.
I shipped computers a handful of times via UPS as well...I think each time it got progressively worse. I did a great job shipping too, went to mailboxes ect. and they went nuts by double boxing (required for that type of shipment) and putting an amazing amount of packing material in there.
The last time I did it, UPS managed to somehow penetrate all of the various layers of protection and caused the motherboard mounts (granted they were vinal) to rip right apart causing the board to reposition and thus bending the couple of cards I left in there. They were always small things I was able to repair cheaply so didn't bother with a claim, but it showed how hard they must beat your packages. I can't speak for the other carriers, but UPS seems to be consistently terrible and should not be trusted with sensative equipment.
First, what happened sucks. It looks like you did thinks right and UPS screwed you.
I use to work as a manager in the complaints department for a major hotel chain (>3k properties worldwide) and may be able to offer a little insight on getting compensation:
- Have a reasonable claim. This part has been clearly satisfied.
- Ask for reasonable compensation. Try to find someplace that has published replacement prices like Sun Remarketing for the Macs.
- Explain in the simplest terms possible where UPS went wrong.
- Be overly polite. I know this can be really, really difficult but will pay off in the end. If you're rude to them they'll use it as an excuse to deny or delay your claim.
- Document times, dates and names of everyone spoken with at UPS.
- Avoid talking about lawyers and law suits in the beginning. Maybe take the "positive" route and say something like "I'm sure you'll be able to resolve this without me having to call my brother the lawyer." When people said they were going to sue us over minor (under $2k) complaints we knew they were bluffing. If they pissed us off and kept mentioning the threat of suit we would just give them the name of the legal department's contact and tell them to have their lawyer (and only his lawyer) send a letter. On the other hand a lawyer in the family scared us. It was no longer about spending $5k to get $500 back. We really tried to settle the matter, reasonable or not.
- When you don't get satisfaction with the person you're dealing with, thank them for they're time and ask to speak to their supervisor. Explain that the problem is not with them but with the lack of compensation. If the UPS person (especially 1st or 2nd level) thinks you're going to "bad mouth" them along with your damage complaint you'll find it a lot harder to talk to someone higher up. BTW, common trick (at a lot of companies) is to pass of the call to a fellow employee instead of their supervisor. Make sure to get their full name, title and confirm they are in deed a supervisor.
- Keep moving your way up the food chain. Everyone has a supervisor and don't take no for an answer. At some point you'll reach someone that will decide that paying you is less hassle than dealing with you.
- Keep bugging them everyday. Be polite but keep calling. When people did this to us we always gave in (when the complaint and compensation were with in reason). Sometimes they'll try to screen you out so you'll need to get creative. Get phone extentions or, even better, direct lines. Avoid depending on a human to transfer you to the person you're calling. A lot of times they knowingly dump you to voice mail when they hear your name. If this happens just have your girlfriend/wife/sister/mother/whatever call, give a fake name and say they're returning a call. Pass off the phone when you get connected and act dumb if they ask about that "trick". "Social Engineering" skills are a plus here.
We once had a guy call about about one of our hotels in Paris where his wife and kid were staying. The only complaint was the room's AC didn't work and hotel needed two days to fix it (they were sold out and couldn't move the guest). The hotel offered to move them to another (nicer) hotel and pay for two nights or comp two nights and dinners. Very reasonable. This guy bitched and moaned like his family was staying in a POW camp (it was the nicest one of our ~8 properties in the Paris area). He wanted the full stay (~9 nights) AND air fare refunded along with some free nights at a hotel in the US. Everyone thought the same thing: "put the crack pipe down for just a minute." He managed (somehow) to get the president of the company on the the phone. He folded faster than Superman on laundry day and gave this guy everything he wanted.
We also once paid 5 figures for a guest's video of two rats mating in their room (that's the guest's room and not the rat's room) but that's for another time. BTW, if there is an upside to this you did get some extra karma points. =)
Good Luck.
pherris
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
The company I work for ships several hundred packages per month. Most of which I ship myself. Of course UPS insures packages that go international. They have a limit of up to $50,000.00 dollars that they will insure. You could have gotten insurance for your package.
And without insurance, your screwed. Trust me on that one.
And usually when you insure a package for over $1,000.00 it goes as a high value package. Which is carefully watched by the wharehouse managers. And is seperated from the regular packages and is locked up at night. They don't wanna lose those.
WOW... My mom had a gateway computer shipped to her house via UPS. The box only had very minor damage. All cards were in place, even the video card that wasn't screwed in place.
- Pimp
I like computers, women and computers... in that order...
since the Teamster thugs bankrupted my former business with their lame-assed strike (and that was so the union bosses could continue to steal from their pension funds - what a bunch of assholes). And remember just in the last year or so they said they had to stop shipping guns because their employees were stealing them all... Why anybody still uses the thief-infested teamster-thug-goon-run company is beyond me. FedEx isn't union, they can (and do) fire assholes and thieves, so things are a lot tighter there.
I had almost the exact same experience (twice) with my systems.
The first time, I used all the original packing material, plus I filled in all of the open spots with packing peanuts. Basically the damage looked identical to the pictures, except that my monitor had a forklift sized whole through the side of it. They replaced the monitor (after about six months) because it was obviously their fault, but they blamed me for incorrectly packing my systems in the original packing. They stated that the system had been shipped in the box ONCE, and so the box was not sturdy enough to handle a second shipment. Each of the pieces of styrofoam was broken at least once, and the inspector said that it looked like it had been dropped on the corner, but that since I didn't pack it correctly, it was my fault. I got a reinspection of the package, and the second inspector said that that much damage couldn't have happened in shipping, and again blamed me. I was never able to get a third inpector, and UPS stated hanging up on me when I called to ask.
So I bit the bullet and bought new systems (luckily the hard drives were salvageable). The next time it came to ship my computers, I went straight to MailBoxes Etc., who promised me that they could pack anything that I wanted to UPS spec, and that if something was wrong, they would pay me directly and then haggle with UPS. Something went wrong. This time, however, UPS again passed the blame to Mailboxes Etc., and the guy from Mailboxes came to my house, took one look at the carton and insurance forms, and basically signed me over a check right there. Still lost the systems, but this time I had the money to replace them even better.
So, I guess the moral of the story is to find someone who will pay when UPS won't, because they never will.
I used to work in a car stereo shop (before my life as a Network Admin). We used to order very large and heavy subwoofer enclosures from a speaker company in Florida. These boxes typically weighed over 75lbs. Our UPS driver used to back up to our installation bays, open his back door, and "roll" the boxes end over end out the back of his truck. The boxes then fell another 3 feet to the floor! The impact was so great that the magnets fell off the subwoofer baskets and, of course, cracked the enclosures!
The final straw was having the ups guy set up two large "cow-print" boxes on his truck as a table and chair to eat his lunch!
We stopped using UPS after that episode.
It sure looks like it did.
I'm posting late, so this will probably never be read. Oh well. I worked with a guy who shipped a $5000 laser printer via UPS. He took digital photos of the printer as he was packaging it, so he had a visual record of how it was packed and how it looked when it left the shipping dock. UPS busted it all to hell, and danced their usual dance of "We no damage, you pack bad, we no pay!". HAHA!! Surprise...here's photos of EXACTLY how I packed it, PAY ME! They did.
ANY UPS employee INTENTIONALLY dropping, kicking, or otherwise mishandling ANY package, marked fragile or not, deserves to be fired, no severance, no unemployment, you broke the rules fucko, hit the door! That is simply unacceptable, and any management that knowingly allows it to occur deserves the same boot in the ass. UPS workers make a pretty decent wage, we as their customers expect a certain level of accountability when we ship with them. It's time we expected it. Otherwise, FedEx, and, eventually, USPS will step up to the plate.
And the worst part really is that the computer will someday be a classic! Power Computing!! That was my first computer in college. They sold those for around a year, but boy did I love that computer company.
Long live the clones!! (Speaking of clone wars... Maybe that's where the Star Wars title comes from?)
You might try to get some help from Tom Martino who has a national consumer help radio show and runs a consumer help center. His web site is http://www.troubleshooter.com/. You should also read his column on shipping packages,5 Fp ackages.html.
http://troubleshooter.com/data/columns/sending%
UPS broke a computer system I shipped to a buyer and did pay a small amount for a box they crushed, but would not pay for the monitor they broke which was shipped in a seperate box along with the other box, because they said it was improperly packed. I had a packaging store pack it, but rather than pay they outrageous fees for shipping, I delivered the packages to UPS for shipping. This was a mistake, because I became the man in the middle when trying to find someone responsible for breaking it. Packaging store, what did you do to our packaging when it left our store? UPS, it was improperly packed. The package was insured, but neither party would pay for damages. If I had sent it using the packaging store, they would have had to fight the battle with UPS. The UPS representative brought my wife to tear when trying to get help. Nice customer service.
The article I mention above also explains why UPS may never have to pay for packages that are broken even though they are insured. They also sent my items back to me in the original "improperly packaged" boxes, with lots of additional tape to seal the tears which streched all the way across the crushed box.
At a minimum, thanks for raising the subject since many packages will be sent at this time of the year.
In 1994, I ordered that Howard Stern video that came with the Leroy Neiman poster. It was left at my upstairs side door-- the upstairs door I don't use and don't open, and has tacked to it a laser-printed sign on HOT PINK cardstock, saying "ALL DELIVERIES TO DOWNSTAIRS DOOR," which could not be missed by anyone approaching that entrance.
I had no inkling the video had arrived until one day I had reason to walk around the side of my house and saw a cardboard box sitting on the landing in front of the door. It had obviously been there for days, and we had seen rain during those days. The box was damn near reduced to pulp, the poster was ruined, but the video was shrinkwrapped and therefore undamaged. I didn't really want the poster in the first place, so I just let it slide.
A couple years later, I ordered an expensive Sony cordless phone/answering machine combo from Damark. Once again the morons just left the box at the upstairs side door-- which still bore the hot pink, hard-to-miss sign, and was at the top of several steps that were now blocked by a large planter to encourage people to not use them.
Purely by chance, I found the phone the same day that it was delivered, but I had had enough. I waited a few days, called Damark asking about my package to establish the 'paper trail,' and then called UPS and raised hell about the phone being stolen since they just left it in plain sight. Result: I got another phone courtesy of UPS, which made a great Christmas gift for my girlfriend that year. The guy who drove my route stopped ignoring my sign and left things where I wanted them on subsequent deliveries, though I encouraged people shipping things to me to use anyone but UPS.
The UPS dudes opened it on purpose, in order to see the valuable award!
PSC is an interesting place at UPS...first of all, that package is far from the worst i've seen. Frequently, people drop 21" monitors down drops of 5 feet because they don't fit on the belt, needless to say, these don't get very far. Another popular thing that people break is guitars...a box of 3 guitars makes a lot of noise when all of the necks break at the same time. The main policy there is to just put as much tape on it as you can and just send it on. Don't be surprised if you find a box without everything that was supposed to be in it, if it opens up, and what fell out isn't in the immediate area, or the person taping is just lazy, well, that's not going to get back into the box.
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
Yes, I've had packages damaged by carriers of all kinds, but none more than any other. As for your package, you screwed up by not packaging it correctly and by not requesting insurance.
I regularly ship optical components (read glass) around via UPS, and they are packed in at least 2" of foam (rigid styrofoam insulation from Home Depot, cut with a box cutter to form fit the pieces), followed by a layer of wood (even 1/4" plywood will do) with reinforcements in the corners (pine 2x4s). The biggest thing I ever shipped that way was a 20" diameter x 3" thick astronomical telescope mirror. No problems. Oh yeah, and I insured it anyway.
I also spent my time with UPS and I know how things operate. Small items on the bottom of the load that are hopelessly crushed, anything over 70 pounds gets basically rolled off the truck and tossed down the slide and who knows once it's off the truck. It's not uncommon for things to happen like bad load qualities where packages are falling out at you, or get the warehouse trucks that are stacked to the ceiling so you are basically throwing everything down to the belt.
But somehow I fail to see how any of the companies could be very different because the packages all go through similar facilities. I've had problems on how I can actually use FedEx ground because I've taken prepaid shipments to places that do FedEx but they won't accept FedEx ground because they get charged. And then of course you can't find out any information outside of M-F bankers hours unless you try to look it up online.
When it comes to tracking, I find UPS to be superior because the site loads much faster and information is updated more often.
I had the same thing happen mailing my computer from NC to TX..when it got here, the package was completely crushed on one side and there were tread marks on the monitor; fortunately, I had it insured. Mortified, I immediately brought the whole package down to the local UPS terminal and was told they couldn't do anything and was given a number to call..so I called the number and was given another number to call, this one long distance. I called from a payphone with a phone card(not having access to a phone myself) and was promptly put on hold for 10 minutes. When I finally got through, they told me they could do nothing, either, and told me they could call me back. I gave them a friend's number and they said they'd call back the next day..when they didn't, I called again the day after, was put on hold, they collected information, etc. etc. and I was told someone would be out to take pictures of the damage and the packaging..a week later, no one came so I called again and they said they'd lost the claim..anyway, long story short, the guy finally came out and took the pictures..that was a month ago, I'm still waiting for my money and using a junk computer I threw together with borrowed parts.. My question is, what happened to the consumer advocacy companies in America? I'd think they'd be all over this by now.
I had memory shipped from Illinois to Pa. via UPS in July 1997. Two weeks later UPS admitted to losing my package and all was well as a new one was coming from the store. Funny thing is, two weeks ago I get a package that looks like my dog ate it and partially digested it. Guy at the door tells me "sorry it's late" and that's it. Unknowing what it was, I wearily opened it.... Low and behold, my memory with the shipping date of July, 1997. heheheheh.. where in the heck was this laying around? Still dunno.... Anyone know what to do with 70 pin simms anymore. :)
I have stuff damaged by shipping it via mail.
The most important thing to remember is that it's humans who move it around. Don't make the dimensions so that it's not possible a person to move it around.
Like big heavy cube boxes without handles cut out on them (for monitors). There's just no way to lift them up except kick it around.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is your fault for mispacking. UPS is a fast-paced, production-oriented parcel delivery system. They are _NOT_ movers, and they should not be treated as such.
From the looks in the photos, the box was notably weak from the start. Based on the beding in the box, I would have to say that there was insufficient packing material surrounding the items involved.
You can't just put a bunch of stuff in a box, except maybe clothing, and expect to get it all in one piece. Each box that you intend to ship must have the items securly packed so that: a.) they don't bang into each other, b.) they don't come close to the edge of the box, c.) the packet contents in the box doesn't move so it can unshift, causing a and b to happen.
I worked for UPS as a night-shift and preload package sorter for 3 1/2 years and I can attest that each of your boxes does NOT get hand carried from truck to truck. A complex system of slides, conveyors, and people get boxes from one sorting facility to another. Make no mistake...FedEx and the USPS aren't really that much better when it comes down to it.
A good rule of thumb that I always use when shipping is if the contents of the box will survive a five foot fall. If that answer is yes, then I can ship it. Remember, your valuables are valuable only to you...as far as the insurance issue goes...you should have asked before you shipped the items...especially the more important ones.
Additionally, it is a very good idea to break up shipments into smaller boxes. Lighter boxes seem to do fairly well in the system. They're less likely to be involved in jams. While they may get tossed around a little more, a well-packed, lighter box, will stand up better since the exterior of the box will be less subject to the forces of intertia.
A good example of what not to do is carefully place your entire set of china in a box and ship it off or I guarantee you'll be getting sand at the other end. You're MUCH better off loading the boxes with bubble wrap, individually wrapping each plate, glass, saucer, and other delicate items. Then they need to be placed in several well-padded and densely packed boxes.
If you're short on bubble-wrap, newspaper is always a popular alternative handled by crumpling each individual sheet into a little ball and filling the box with these along with your precious contents. Packing peanuts are always good if you have enough of them laying around. I've heard that unbuttered popcorn works good too...but only if you have your own air popper.
This of course varies with the contents. For clothing, fold everything, then put it in a garbage bag before putting it into the box. This will save you from the occassional liquid damage that is known to happen. I already talked about dishes. For computers, it's best to disconnect and undo anything that isn't securely bolted down...remove those expansion cards and wrap them separately...and pack the inside of the case.
When it comes down to it...shipping your valuables should be done carefully, thoroughly, and effectively to guarantee their safe transport. This is not the time or place to take the "cheap route."
// Agent Green (Ian / IU7 / KB1JQO)
// IEEE 802.3: All 10base Are Belong To Us
If your going to be a dickhead at least attach your name asshole.
Environmentalists are their own worst enemy. ~tricklenews.com
I have provided a sample of International Trebuchet's equipment. (Drawn to Scale of course) Eqiupment Sample
All employees must wash hands before using the bathroom. - The Mgmt.
I shipped a PC from Sunnyvale, California to eastern Washington state via UPS.
UPS Sunnyvale refused to accept my (well-packaged) box. UPS informed me that it was their policy to only ship computers (electronics?) in their original packing. I didn't want to, but I had to pay them extra for re-packing my PC. They injected foam into my package, then double-boxed that and then foam injected the doubled box.
The PC arrive in Washinton in great shape.
I pulled the hard drives before shipping. I did not ship a monitor. If I had, I would have shipped in a separate box.
I think you packed poorly. And I think UPS should have refused your package. I think they accepted your package in violation of their own policy.
As an aside, I collect German Weizenbier glasses. I have over 1000 of them and they are fragile. USPS is great! UPS sucks. Even my MSDN monthlies get banged up. I'm afraid of FedEx as I see them taking the speed bumps at full speed.
Anybody have any glasses for sale? Maybe your uncle was a GI stationed in Germany 1946-1990 and has a few?
--Weissbier at NDA Tech dot Com
UPS treat's all packages the same (like shit).
too many packages come through those UPS hub's
for any box's to really get special care. If you want SPECIAL care send it next day air.
read the fine print. It says:
"UPS Ground shipments from US to Canada may involve routing your package over Niagra falls in a barrell, depending on your location and current traffic conditions"
Always read the fine print.
Duct tape, XML, democracy: Not doing the job? Use more.
Back in 1991, when I was travelling from Vancouver to Kitimat to work there for a year, I had an accident and rolled my vehicle, a pickup truck, at least once. I was a little confused (probably highway hypnosis) and was too busy keeping my head down and kissing my ass goodbye to count the number of rolls - all I remember is it took way too long to stop. I had a number of boxes filled with textbooks or other stuff in the back. These were boxes specially designed and reinforced to hold books during moving (left over from when a University department moved their library into a new building). They survived being tossed dozens of meters as the truck rolled. Many of the boxes however did not survive the remainder of the trip via Greyhound parcel. Thereafter I have been a lot more careful about packing for shipping.
Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
we could at least Slashdot it! B-)
I have 3656.9 Bogomips. How many Bogomips do you have?
Back in my high school days I used to work in a PC Repair shop that had a contract with UPS. We would do all the repairs on the insurance claims in the state of Colorado. I personally handled about 2 to 3 hundred machines from UPS. After looking at the pics you posted, the damage doesn't look that bad in comparison. If anything I'd say you got off lucky.
I guess I know one company I'll never use. I hope these idiots read this forum and pay you back! Good luck, man.
there's no place like ~
the Mac. Even UPS drones know that a Mac POS deserves no better than drop kick to the back of the truck! UPS should at least give you a nickle, as in "here's a nickle kid, go buy yourself a real computer."
If you're going to quote lame Tolkien lines like some retard BBS chat room stalker, at least post anonymously asshole. Then we won't see your great big huge I'm-a-/.-newbie number. Or hey, just SHUT THE FUCK UP COMPLETELY!
u R s0 l33t!
I don't know about you guys.. But I'm gonna start putting $50k of insurance on big fragile pieces of glass and shipping them cross country.
UPS lost/stole 3 laptops I was getting shipped from the US - tracked them to some facility then got the call from their local office to say hey pay some customs duty - OK I think .. pay now save the hassle later... WRONG! now I'm out the goods and the customs fees .. though I should get them back. This was international Air Freight so they should carry insurance for the full value - around $4000 .. The shipper has been really slow perhaps its not their fault I'm thinking after reading this article that UPS just fucking SUCK!
.. oh wait!! thats pretty dangerous these days too ..
.. class action sounds good to me .. count me in.. though I have no munny left for friggin lawyers now :-(
Oh and USPS they aren't much better - they shipped some more PC equipment via fucking Kenya!
How do I know - I got a Kenyan flag! and a nice note saying sorry the USPS has sent this box to fucking Kenya - sorry about the breakages...
I say get on a plane and go pick up anything worth more than a few $1000
Christ I think I'll buy local stuff!
D00de
This is how I packed my puter before it was moved and how anyone should do it.
Get 2 or three boxes of progressively larger sizes. Pack the puter into the smallest box with tightly packed packing.
Take that box and completely wrap it in duct tape.
Now pack that box into the second box with all your dirty underwear and socks and yet more packing material.
Duct tape that box up fairly well.
Now if its still fairly small pack it again with yet more cheap stuff and more packing material into its final box and yet again duct tape it closed all corners all edges all seams with 4 inch wide duct tape.
Now that should be safe. Its how I did it.
An awful lot of the damage shown looks very deliberate.
I wonder if it was "inspected" by some minimum wage airport security moron?
-- Defenestrate Microsoft!
The box the CPU came was completely shredded, similar to the pictures above. Box literally had no corners, was completely deformed -- it had clearly been soaking wet at some point. Looked like it was crushed in a garbage truck.
Needless to say the computer inside the box was shitboxed. Every piece of styrofoam broken. Case was broken (it's metal), drive non functional, cards loose in the case, keyboard exploded. The only thing that wasn't damaged was the TFT monitor, which was in a similarly beat up box, but survived due to luck... and radical over-insulation from the factory.
UPS basically told me to go stuff it when I flipped out at the pick up window (they made me come pick it up, even!) and were completely unaccountable for their actions. I sent the CPU back to IBM (at my expense, and inconveniance) and they replaced it. It was shipped via FedEX per my request, and arrived in pristine condition. Oh, interestingly -- I had paid extra for rush delivery the first time... and according to the IBM salesperson there was some insurace hidden in the fees for that shipping option, which was the only reason I got a free replacement.
Isaac Taylor
Cambridge, Massachusetts
I sympathize with the person, being a Mac guy and all, seeing the crushed G4 hurts a little.
Anyway, Mac or not,it seems this person had three computers (G4, Powertower, some generic PC) PLUS a monitor squished in that box. Although good sized, this was not a huge box. How much packing material could there possibly have been in and around all this gear? Maybe one layer of bubble wrap? The box had to weigh a ton.
I'm sorry but the packer has to share a good chunk of the blame in this case. Every one of those computers should have gotten packed in its own box.
Ever notice how they pack computers in the original box? Several centimeters of styrofoam on all sides. I try to keep the original box for my computer just so it can travel all nice and cozy. Last time I moved, the computer traveled in my trunk; the rest of my crap went via moving van.
Shameless Plug, but experience backs me up. You want to ship computer equipment? Pay the extra money, find a Mailboxes Etc franchise, and have them box it up. They will do the following: 1. Bubble wrap the actually equipment throughly. 2. Place this in peanuts and into a custom-sized box 3. Place this in a second box, larger, custom-sized, also filled with peanuts 4. If heavy enough (like many an HP LJ4000 I shipped) they will also triple box. 5. They will review shipping options of different carriers and make sure you get the right amount of insurance. I worked for an ad agency in Dallas, and we shipped Macs and PCs back and forth from our field offices all over the country. When we packed it, often there was breakage (even when I took a boxed printer on a plane with me). When we had it packed by MBE, it got there every time. Lastly, always keep the original packing if you're going to ship in the future or might...that $50 box looks much cheaper when compared to replacing the >$2000 of computer equipment that came in it. And use buble wrap first, peanuts second. Bubble wrap won't yield the way a bunch of styrfoam peanuts will.
No, really. This works. Get a lawyer to write a letter on official law firm stationery to A SPECIFIC PERSON at UPS, preferably a VP of Customer Service. They will get back to you, especially if you keep doing that...
It is a widely held belief amongst those of us who are musicians, and who occasionally buy/sell equipment (guitars, amps, etc...) to people on the other side of the country, that UPS is the LAST method of shipment one should use. UPS is self-insured. They are notorious for not paying damage insurance claims. You will get the major run-around and stonewall job, and they will try to make it look like YOU are at fault. The only person I know of who has successfully gotten a damage settlement from them did so by taking them to court. A boutique speaker manufacturer (WeberVST) had huge problems with damaged shipments through UPS. Next time, use FedEx!
I work for UPS at a hub in california, and I also handle liquid spills and rewrap damaged packages. First of all, what happened to your boxes sucks, but some of what has been said on these boards doesn't click with me. Perhaps things are different in other buildings, but I hardly ever see any of my co-workers pay more attention to any package than what is required to place the box into the trailer/delivery van/whatever... there are just too many boxes to move to. "Fragile" isn't a 'kick me' sign, it just doesn't get differentiated in any way (orientation arrows are much the same, unfortunatly) As for the damage to your boxes, those boxes probably were sent down 15 different large drive belts, and for damage of that magnitude, unless there are bootprints on the boxes, they probably got smashed in the machinery, and there was no malicious intent on the part of any employee... just carelessness on the part of the UPS Canada operation for not intercepting the boxes and having them processed as damages. Boxes that look like yours are referred to as "Service Failures", and in your case the title aptly describes the situation.
Last year I moved from the west coast to the east coast. I shipped my secondary work box and my firewall/httpd box via the good ol' US postal service. They were packed in original styrofoam and bubble wrapped with a layer of rags around that. They showed up at my house looking pretty much like the pics in this article: totally unsalvageable. I hope the fuckers involved got anthrax :P
We have probably 15 or so Dell 2450's and 6350's that were literally destroyed by Fedex. I swear that it looks like they kicked them off the truck going 60mph. I've also had 2 Sun Enterprise 250's arrive without the box on them anymore, just the computer on a pallet with the box and contents missing. Computer equipment and shipping do not mix. If you plan on shipping computer equipment, make damn sure you insure it, because chances are that it won't make it to its destination in one piece.
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
Of course, sometimes boxes get messed up by accident. My hub moved 200,000 packages in a 3-4 hour sort every night, and gee, surprise, some of them got damaged. I can tell you that down in irregs, we didn't necessarily handle them with kids gloves, but we didn't go out of our way to damage them either. You try moving 70-130 lb packages for 4 hours straight and see how careful you are in the third hour with someones crappy overweight box. None of the people i saw EVER damaged a box on purpose, but its hard to be extra careful with every one.
My personal advice to you if you are shipping something big and heavy is to get a really good, brand new nice strong box (cardboard is fine, but heavier style). If you try to ship 80 lbs in a used, weak-ass half falling apart box you put a bunch of tape on to keep together, you are kidding yourself.
you know, you can't ride the concept of the horse.
I was read back the correct address twice by customer service representative's of UPS, first when changing the delivery address, then the day after tracking showed: Nov 15, 2001 6:45 P.M. SUNNYVALE, CA, US 11:18 A.M. SUNNYVALE-MT VIEW, CA, US COMPANY OR PERSON UNKNOWN, NOT DELIVERED;ADDRESS CORRECTED, DELIVERY RESCHEDULED Nov 14, 2001 11:15 P.M. SUNNYVALE-MT VIEW, CA, US COMPANY OR PERSON UNKNOWN, NOT DELIVERED;UNABLE TO CONTACT RECEIVER 9:03 A.M. SUNNYVALE-MT VIEW, CA, US COMPANY OR PERSON UNKNOWN, NOT DELIVERED So they couldn't find the delivery location, although it had been repeaetd back to me before AND after they attempted to make the delivery. FedEx has never screwed up like this for me. mo
hate to tell you, but you're right. you're shit out of luck. i recently quit my job at the ups call center because of policies like this. ups ground is not, was not, and never will be insured between canada and the us, expect for the standard $100. you can get that back, but nothing more. you could talk to a local driver, but that's not their job, they're not responsible. you could talk to the office in your area, but they'll tell you to call customer service, that's not their job. you can call customer service, but the policy says if you didn't have insurance then it's your fault, whether or not you had the option to do that. bottom line is, ups doesn't care about the customer. i've asked. they would rather appease the corporate office and all the usual white collar pansies than actually do the job of simnply picking up a box and taking it where it's supposed to go. from personal experience, don't use ups. i don't care what you decide on, but ups is simply not going to give a damn what happens to your property.
words from a former employee.
...and from what I gather they prioritize as follows:
1) speed
2) saftey
3-99) speed
100) maintaining package integrity
They throw anything throwable (i.e., not extremely heavy) to/from the trucks and conveyors, repack/tape what gets opened, and trash what gets destroyed or falls through the cracks. The main thing is to keep the line moving as any interruption can cause delays all over the place.
The employees that do the unloading/routing/loading are unskilled part-time help (who often here in tejas are illegals who don't speak english yet). Of course, the turnover is massive, because who wants to work like a dog in a warehouse being subjected to whatever the weather is like outside (packages get it worse of course as far as extremes of heat and cold).
Anyway, don't ship any package UPS that you are able to destroy with your own two hands/feet (look for bootmarks on your stuff, it's fun) because they will probably find a way. Unless it's packed very, very well.
In UPS's defense, the guy from the article didn't say beyond bubble wrap what "well packed" was, but bubble wrap is basically useless on something heavy like a PC unless you apply about 20 layers all around. That's why PCs are shipped from manufacturers in styrofoam wedges, because they know what to expect from UPS and other shippers. Follow a manufacturer's example for best results.
I know who your Flordian package smasher was: Tech Data. They seem to have a policy of presmashing anything leaving their offices.. Chances are that the vendors were just drop shipping you from Tech Data.
The trailors the packages are transported in have two levels, an upper and lower level with 'flaps' separating the upper from lower.
... "sounds like something broken to me". Those 'this side up' labels are pretty worthless as well, especially if the address label isn't on that side.
When unloading a trailor, you remove boxes from the upper portion first. Now, once you've done that, you lift up the 'flaps' to get at the boxes below. Now, the boxes on the lower level are now the 'floor' that you stand on until you can remove enough boxes so that the real 'floor' of the trailer can be stood upon. When I was being trained I was instructed to stand on boxes, and I was really shocked, but it didn't take long for me to get over that and not even care about it. Most boxes stood up well to my 200+lbs standing on it, some didn't.... but hey, I'm just doin my job the way I was trained to do it... and that's why they made insurance right?
Not to mention, the unloaders of these trailors are usually people who just got hired, and they make the worst salary. They could care less about your package's contents when all they want to do is get out of the cold/hot, and dusty trailor.
So, many of the damages come from unloaders standing on boxes. Other forms of damage may come from boxes going down 'slides', like the things children slide down for fun. Imagine boxes/wooden crates weighing under 75 (not by much) pounds sliding down and slamming into your package.
Having a 'fragile' label will also get the loader curious about the box too, which may result in him shaking it to see if he can guess whats inside it. I can remember numerous times guys would be shaking the shit out of a box and saying something like "i wonder whats inside?"
Plus, some guys would come across a box that would be heavy or something, and it would have slight damage to the box or something, if that guy was feeling too lazy he would rip the box open and send it to the 'clerks' (people that tape up broken boxes, etc) so that he wouldnt have to load the heavy ass box.
And you would not beleive the crap people ship. I've seen car doors, bumpers, ded frogs(going to a highschool for disection, man they reeked), pocket-pussies, dildos, etc.
So, in closing.... be sure to pack anything fragile in thick foam and be sure its taped thoroughly and also use a thick new cardboard box or wooden crate.
I've had two recent bubble wrap experiences. Last march I shipped a DLT4000 drive wrapped in about 6" of bubble wrap from MN to CA. When I got to CA, the drive, an old Dec TZ-88 had its metal housing smashed so bad it was bent, and the metal housing on that drive has got to be .125" steel.
The odd thing was that the *box* was totally intact and showed no sign of being opened, crushed or otherwise mangled.
I'm totally at a loss as to what happened to it, it almost seems like it was internal inertia that mangled it because it doesn't seem possible for the damage that drive experienced to happen without the box looking like it had been delivered via howitzer.
I did the same thing again two weeks ago, but this time I wrapped the drive in 12" of bubble wrap (as in the drive plus wrap is now about 32", nearly round) and it survived OK.
I'd like to get some of that plastic and quick setting foam stuff that some things seem to ship with. It looks like you pretty much just spray foam in the box, lay a piece of plastic inside, lay your stuff down, and then lay plastic on top of it and then spray more foam -- totally contoured to match the item and the box.
We had a computer (a 1U system in a manufacturer-provided shipping box - strurdy!) Be delivered once with a tire-tread across the top of the box (which was clearly computer equipment). The box was bent and mangled and pressed almost flat on one side. It looked like it had been, well, run over by a truck.
They delivered it as if nothing were wrong.
Upon opening, the sheet-metal casing was completely warped, screws had been pulled out of steel, or had their heads popped off. The Top of the case had been compressed so hard you could see the imprint of the blades of the heatsink through the sheet metal. The main-board was cracked mostly in two pieces, one disk had been squashed open the other mangled. The power-supply was a mess of cables and capacitors falling out.
They delivered it as if nothing were wrong. Needless to say, the customer wasn't too impressed and sent it back to us.
I worked for a company a few years ago that did FedEx cargo on smaller Cessna planes. I had to go down to a maintenance station at the Oakland airport, it was at the main FedEx hub of the west coast. Anyway, tons of planes there, tons of cargo being shipped here and there, and the guys who would move the cargo from the planes to these trailer things would just toss them like basketballs or something, it startled me quite a bit.
By the way, even though we were contracted by FedEx, it was cheaper for us to use UPS. We still had problems shipping computers to our maintenance hangers though, so we had to buy a pretty durable box, some sort of metal on the outside, filled with foam blocks. You would just cut out the blocks where the pc would be at, and it could probably be dropped from a few hundred feet with not much damage, they were pretty nice boxes =).
it's an expensive joke but at least you can buy a new computer.. on rec.games.pinball there've been enough stories of ups (and other shippers) destroying unique 40-year old (or even older) perfect, never used playfields and backglasses.. good luck replacing on of these, because that item may have been the last one on the world in such nice condition.. (and maybe it's insured for like $1000 - if you've looked like 20 years for that part, finally found it and got it destroyed in shipping, $1000 damages means sh*t)
Enough things said by other people about packing.. use wood if you can.. double pack it if possible (box in a box with lots of padding).. and if you don't dare to hold the box in front of you and drop it, then pack again until you dare..
Learn about pinball machines on www.flippers.be
I don't know much about FedEx, but in the story i recalled. The plane crached, and the surviving FedEx employe spends his time destroying the goods that survived.
I don't know if little Jimmy was fons of his vollyball now.
that items fallen of a truck were stolen. But it appears that it really happens. No more UPS for me thats for sure.
JR
I worked a short stint at UPS (3 weeks of working that shit job of 5 hour nights in a 120 degree trailor for shit pay (screw that)), and I can tell you that the entire time I worked there I never saw anyone attempting to damage a package. However, when you have 50 boxes flying down a shoot at you and you're alone to stack them, you stop trying to be careful, and just get the job done. I saw packages thrown, tumbled, and tossed, but my only explanation for that smashed shipment was that something heavy fell on it in the truck, or some idiot loaded it on top and it dropped 15 feet from the trailor. Screw UPS.
sigs are dumb.
Like I allways try to do. If you don't have the space remove all the tape and flatten the boxes, use one big box to put the foam in. Otherwhise go to your friendly nieghbourhood computer sales man and ask for a box.
Somebody fill me in on the history, here. IIRC, UPS started out as a mob front to launder Capone's money. I've also heard that they didn't go public for about sixty or seventy years, because their books wouldn't pass muster for the audit.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Hard cases!
I managed to luck out and pick up a couple from a client that was throwing them out before I moved out west. Even UPS couldn't destroy these puppies!
It held my SGI Indy and Sparc IPX AND assorted
peripherals AND they showed up in SF in one piece.
A second case held the monitors.
All were shipped UPS overnight and all arrived in one piece at their destination.
RK
Last year I sent a computer from Vienna, Austria to my mother in law in Bavaria, Germany via UPS (surface delivery). The thing was in it's original box, well padded and everything.
The computer arrived with it's front panel broken and backpanel bent, the Pentium III (Slot-1) hit out of it's slot, with the CPU Fan dangling on it's cable. MoBo broken.
After months of legal moves and being redirected between various UPS offices we gave up.
-- bmp System Support - Vienna, Austria
That being said, both claims were resolved quickly. They showed up within a week or so, confiscated the damaged equipment (minus a few goodies they didn't know about, like the Kurzweil foot pedal), and sent my roommate's mom a check for the amount of the insurance. They didn't check any receipts, so if he had had the $3000 keyboard insured for $5000, he presumably would have gotten the whole $5000.
Why is Grand Theft Auto a much more serious crime than Reckless Driving?
A friend of mine made about $1200 off of getting her bass amp and speaker stolen, though. Both were used. One was a present, the other cost her $200. In brand new condition, each listed for $700. When she reported them stolen, the insurance company (Clarion) gave her $1400 for her claim, again, no questions (except that they wanted the police report since the stuff was stolen).
When I looked over her policy, I found that virtually the only thing that wasn't covered was nuclear attack or damage from nuclear radiation. Acts of war were fine, and it looked like if you intentionally threw your equipment out a twelfth story window, that was covered, too.
Why is Grand Theft Auto a much more serious crime than Reckless Driving?
Ive been talking to compleat strangers who climed to have once worked for ups and how buddys of his on the line could do the most beautiful jump-catch-slam the package to the belt moves. if one was fragile tough stuff. what about steel shiping boxes that fit just within the standard carboad one... make it hurt if they try. it may cost more but insurance may not be nessary.
As a United Partial Service Air Package Handler, I would like to just say that when you have about 1000 packages coming down a belt that are your resonsibility, you kinda run into a problem. You have to pull each package off the belt, scan it, and load it into a feeder truck or air container. Plus it is always a good idea to make sure the city, state, and zip is correct. Not all of the facilities are automated enough to have computers that varify this. Lets just say that the work is not easy, but when they pay for your education (tuition, books, housing subsidy etc.) you put up with it. Also most people who work in the air facilities are between the ages of 18-24. I am not so sure about the ground stuff though. All I know is that they are a pain in the ass when they get mixed in the air system and I have to take care of getting them to where they go (part of my job).
Wow thats some serious shit! What were they doing with your boxes? Playing football?
I saw this all the time here in the UK.
Our firm made PC's. All our boxes (cardboard) were nearly always in perfect order upon their return, it was the customer arranged for return boxes that got nailed by the courier every time.
A friend of mine lives in Canada and was shipping it down to California (he goes to school here). The package was held up at the border for a week for some reason and eventually got through after he had to contact fedex (and I think fax his passport or something like that).
Anyway, when it finally arrived, it was fairly screwed up. Among things, the side was bashed in and the CPU fan had ripped off the processor and done some damage bouncing internally in the computer.
After running through a few hoops with fedex (he had to take it to a computer place to get inspected etc...) they reimbursed him to the tune of around $1000 I believe (I assume it was insured btw).
I wonder if any chance customs might have caused the damage or if it is somehow related to inspecting more packages. My friend at least turned out alright ($1000 goes a long way with today's prices).
Believe it or not, the is most likely accidental damage. For all of those of you that think that the UPS employees did this, you are most certainly wrong. Granted, in a few cases, a pissed off employee may take his frustrations out on a package. I work at UPS, at one of the bussier hubs in the country. Damage like this is usually caused by package jams on the belt. It's not perfect, but it's the only system we have for moving packages through the building.
Over 200,000 packages move through my particular place of employment during my shift, which is usually 3.5 to 6 hours. And that's just on one shift, not counting daylight and twilight. This package no doubt passed through my hub. Packages get ripped open, smashed, and broken in half by one sole cause: package jams. A package can only take so much when it has hundreds of packages building up behind it. Much of the time, a 40 to 70 pound package will come down behind a jam and just pulverize another, or several, packages.
I, for one, try to take great care(at least as the circumstances permit) to handle packages as if they were my own. Although, it is hard to do that when you load well over two to three thousand packages in a 4.5 hour period.
That being said, the employees at UPS are not out to get you. It's just the fact that the system is not at all perfect.
Linkie
I worked for UPS for a summer unloading trucks, and let me say that these are in better shape than I might've expected. Here's why:
All ground shipments are packed into trucks that are ~ 12' in height. If your package is beneath 20 other packages weighing no more than 20 lbs each, do the math. It's nearly equivalent to the pressure of placing a board on top and jumping up and down on it. Now do that for 20 consecutive hours, and it's a little easier to understand why they arrived in this condition. Even if they were placed at the top of the heap (marked FRAGILE, right?), how do you think they come down? Some poor schlep is going to yank it down, and probably bounce it off the deck of the truck, then send it down the rollers in the midsection to crash to a hault for sorting. It will then be heaved onto another belt for moving to the individual delivery trucks, and voila - your mess arives quickly, cheaply, and in your case, in pieces.
The lesson to be learned here is not to ship your computer or monitors via any carrier without the original packing material (and no, Tupperware is not packaging material). Those 2" foam inserts are specifically designed to mitigate the abuse your poor machines received.
Though I sympathize with the loss, the fault lies in extremely poor packaging and planning, not with the shipper, who probably moved the parcels for 1/10th what you would have payed in lost gas milage if you'd moved them in your own car. Sorry dude - Nice pics though!
A simple Google search for "hate UPS" turned up 195 hits. The first of these being http://www.ihateups.net/.
Share your experience. Call the BBB. Send your story to John Stossil at 20/20. You don't have to take it lying down.
Thought I'd chime in with the rest of the Slashdot crowd - wow, that sucks.
Now for my brief defense of UPS.
At work we frequently ship at least one RMA'd monitor back and forth each week to Gateway (we're in PA.) These monitors go into cardboard boxes that are very thin with nothing but foam support each end of the monitor.
I have never encountered any shattered monitors or DOA ones that don't work right out of the box. We've never received any calls from Gateway asking where a box might be either. For large 60 pound 17" monitors to travel halfway across the country in thin boxes with barely any protection and survive is amazing.
There are isolated incidents of jackasses in every industry everywhere. There has been a whole lot of generalizing in the discussion about how "every UPS guy" does this. Unfortunately, the number of comments like mine pointing this out seems to be less then people willing to hope on the bandwagon to trash UPS. I'm not denying these things DON'T happen, but I've never encountered any problems in numerous shipments with UPS.
Caveat emperor, insure.
First of all you can short-circuit the runaround. Who did you pay? They are the people you have a contract with, and can therefore sue. The buck goes with the cheque. If they offloaded part of the job to someone else then that is their problem.
Unfortunately this is likely to mean that you are suing the Canadian part rather than the US part, and will thus either have to hire a Canadian lawyer to do it for you or travel back to Canada to actually sue them. OTOH if they are basically the same corporation then you may be able to sue them in the US. There are also likely to be rules about holding hearings at the defendents home address (e.g. wherever their registered office is). This is something to find out about. You may be able to argue that since they are a multinational corporation it makes no difference to them where the hearing is, so it might as well be held where you are.
Secondly, the exclusion of liability clause in their contract is unlikely to cover malicious damage, even if they try to claim it does. And the photos you published do look like malicious damage. That bent phono jack may be the smoking gun here: it looks like someone stuck a screwdriver in there and bent it. There is no way this could have happened by accident. Take a look inside and you might even be able to see the marks left by the screwdriver.
If malicious damage occured then you have a much stronger case for compensation. Details will depend on the relevant laws. Go to a library and find out what they are. Then think about talking to a lawyer.
Paul.
You are lost in a twisty maze of little standards, all different.
My God, i can't imagine shipping something anywhere without insurance and then being able to even sleep a wink at night.
When i relocated (within canada) i had my stuff shipped, and it did cost (too much, imho) to insure my pathetic celleron ($1500 heh) and 15" P.O.S monitor ($500). Theres no way in hell that computer would have left my old place without insurance, even if i would have had to go back, pick it up, and carry it myself to my new place. I dunno, maybe i'm one of those rare people who expect the worse, and always take steps for that.
long story short, they destroyed my monitor completely (Canadian postal service) and when i went to claim the insurance, they told me "sorry, we normally dont insure breakable things like monitors".. well too bad, they DID accept the money to insure it, so after a month of running around, i did finally get my claim.. and now today i am viewing this page from my sweet top of the line 17" monitor, that only cost me the shipping cost and a month of grief. but if anything, this experience has only reaffirmed my belief that if they can break it, they will. never never never ship without insurance.. if they don't offer insurance, find someone else. if no one does, pay one of your out of work bum friends to drive it down.. if you still cant take those suggestions, for god's sake, sell the computer and then buy a new one in the new place..
A big mat which rings the bell everytime someone steps on it. That way you will always know when someone enters your premises.
Add a camera to record their tricks and send it off to America's Funniest Home Video's. Be sure to come out just after they've hidden the stuff and let them explain what they did and why. Act stupid.
That'll teach them.
The Drowned and the Saved - Primo Levi
I have never even heard of a postal service breaking something before.
Maybe it is because I live in New Zealand...
I shipped all my belongings UPS when I moved from New York to Atlanta.
All 9 boxes were demolished. They were smashed, warped, ripped open. Luckily all the items inside- books, cds, movies, clothes- survived. I got hundreds of broken jewel cases, but that's about it.
These were moving boxes purchased from Office Depot. Each box had between 40 and 75 pounds.
I'm pretty pissed at UPS. Bottom line- never ship anything important without insurance. If someone can't insure it, then don't use them.
I know people that have worked at UPS for some 15 years and they say they would never recommend UPS service to even their worst enemy. Apparently, they're very good at overloading the workflow to the point where heavy boxes are crushing lighter more fragile boxes that they are stacked upon, also there are boxes often falling off conveyers as they get backed up. That could explain your sorry looking box.
I Never did like all that plastic on the Mac's.
As a UPS sorter.. I am not trying to exempt my company or anything like that. What you have is a Customer Service issue, and a valid one at that. There are a couple of things you could have / should have done. First off, the item could have and should have been sent as a high dollar item. They would have put red tape on it, and thus it would have got hand controlled all the way through. Second, since it went through UPS canada to the US, the box was opened and repacked at the border by US customs agents. (It was also most likely opened but not repacked at the first groundpoint of UPS.) Another thing to note is that UPS isn't a bad company.. they respond extremely quickly to insurance claims. Odds are that box of yours went through my hub. I know people at MY hub would react quickly and confidently to an insurance claim, had one been able to be made on this item. As for someone's earlier claim about firing the ones responsible, don't bother. UPS has thousands of employees, most likely between 15 and 100 of them touched your box between here and canada, not counting the US customs agents and officers who might have inspected the truck as it came through the border. Almost all UPS employees are unionized and protected by the union. In short, they aren't going to get fired just because your computer got destroyed and didn't have insurance on it. This should be a lesson. Yes, I know some will claim that the insurance never works and that UPS will rip them off.. but you don't even have a complaint that you can file with them. No insurance.. no claim. So you don't even have that leg to stand on.
:) A friend who works there as well said that one time, there was a jam that extended for well over six hundred feet covering four belts and a transverse. The lead jamming package was DESTROYED.
I'm really sorry about what happened. If I might have touched that box (I touch around 3000 boxes per night totally between 60,000 and 75,000 pounds over a three to five hour stretch at 9.50 an hour) then I am personally sorry for the service you recieved. Next time, buy insurance please.
For those saying "use Fedex"... this type of stuff happens there too. Fedex uses automated sorting, (no humans) , and their machines are FAMOUS for kicking packages into weird spots, where they get crunched by a belt or two. Fedex is also really good at getting massive jams that run the length of their hubs
The Postal Service has this issue too. Everyone does. Mistakes happen and so do accidents. Best of luck in the future!
AC
It's his fault because he did not buy insurance, and because he used his own boxes. If you are intending to ship a computer, whenever possible, use the ORIGINAL box. I, on the other hand, never intend to ship mine once I have to so I usually ditch the box (until I install overhead storage in my garage I do not have room to keep such things). I bet if he had shipped his mac in it's original box, then it might possible have made it. There's no guarantee, but it masy have had a better chance. The box looked like it may not have even been strong enough to take it. I am not saying the UPS folks are totally absolved, but if you are shipping it and it's valuable, you better ship it in the best box you can find with a HALF TON of stuffing and for gods sake insure it! Styrofoam peanuts don't work. I have had stuff come with that expanding foam in a bag stuff and that would work best if you don't have the original box and styrofoam. It will conform nicely to the curves of any device.
Gorkman
His situation is what we call 'anecdotal', as in "in his case, his shipment was screwed up". I recently shipped my box cross-country (seattle, WA to raliegh, NC) and my stuff arrived just fine...or maybe I'm the one who was the exception??????
For better protection, spray paint the crate in really bright, catchy colors. I would use yellow/red/black/green/blue spray paint and paint swirls, spots, lines, outline corners and 12 inch tall letters saying FRAGILE.
That's a great idea.
I used to work for a division of Litton, and often had to ship radar displays as rush deliveries for customers whose ships couldn't leave port until the radar was arrived and installed. (It's a safety thing, you wounldn't drive your car on a long trip if windshield wipers and headlights didn't work, would you?)
Imagine a ship, costing $10,000 an hour in crew, port fees, diesel fuel, shore power and water, late penalties from their own customers, waiting for a radar transceiver before they can sail.... and, as I'm sure you can also imagine, radar equipment, while built tougher than consumer electronics, tends to be delicate.
Yes, $10k/hr sounds huge. And it is. To put it in perspective, we're also talking about operating costs of a vehicle with a four-story tall diesel engine.
In my experience, UPS loses stuff. FedEx gets it there, but it's broken when it arrives. And Purolator does either at random. At $10,000/hr, if you want to win brownie points with your customers, you toss the crates into the back of your pickup truck and drive them there.
Finally, looking at the devastation wrought on the poor guy's little server farm there, how did that RCA jack on his video card get bent? It looks suspiciously like something was plugged into it when it was shipped; I can't imagine any other way to obtain sufficient leverage to bend it that far.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
You need to pack things to withstand a fall from a high counter. Knowing that it IS going to be thrown around before you pack it helps. Fed Ex is NO better.
I suspect that the package was NOT packed correctly! How about photos of the the packing material and how it was packed!
For one- that box looks like it was dilapidated before UPS got ahold of it.
Tips for computer packers....
1) Use the double thick cardboard for computers! Double box things if you need to be absolutely sure. If the box has bends or creases in it- use another box! Know that heavy objects are going to be set below lots of other heavy boxes!
2) Use lots of bubble wrap!
3) Use that hard styrofoam found in the original box. Go to recycling center if you do not have the original packing. You have to PACK it! You might have to cut pieces to form the hard styro around the bubble wrapped computer!
4) Once you've got it set up so that you can poke a metal prod through the box and the computer will not get hurt- fill the rest with styro peanuts.
It needs at LEAST 2" of packing between all sides of computer and the box!
-- "Perceptions create reality. By changing your perceptions you change your reality."
Thanks for the details.
Lasers Controlled Games!
We once shipped a brand new server to a vendor for configuration. The idiots threw away the factory packaging and returned the server in a box with a bunch of peanuts in it.
The thing was destroyed to the point of being ludicrous. I don't think that I could have done that much damage intentionally. The case looked like it had taken some direct hits with a stinger missile. The mobo was cracked and everything in the case had come loose and was rolling around inside.
The company that sent the box back gave us some attitude when we told them they would have to buy us a new server. They stopped fighting when they saw the sad, sad sight of the server sitting on our floor.
Looking at the pictures, those were just standard moving boxes. Most of the time, they don't have the burst strength to ship computer products. I have rarely had problems shipping equipment anywhere becuase I keep the original boxes and shipping materials in storage. You will notice that most of your boxes that computer equipment comes in are much sturdier then your average box from Uhaul. Uhaul boxes are great for clothes, that is about it.
Yeah, UPS treats computer equipment in Canada as 'personal items.' Sorry, no insurance there. If you didn't pack it "properly" it would be denied any insurance claim as well.
I work in the IS dept so I've probably received hmm, 200+ PC/monitors in the past couple of years, all Compaq junk, but not a single one of those has ever been damaged. These things are packed well, 2-3 inches thick of a foam frame around the PC edges and a sturdy box. Of course, with all the broken boxes around, I am pretty surprised.
Any boxes going through will/can be tortured, kicked, stomped, and dropped/thrown 6+ feet onto concrete. OEMs plan accordingly, and heavy stuff 70+ pound monitors/printers will be on wooden pallets.
Before I get on to critiquing your uh, packaging, I'll mention that here in the states a lot of our customer counters will check your packaging and then later a technician will come by and open your box and verify the contents to make sure it is in fact a PC of approx the same value as declared on the insurance (fraud purposes and yes, UPS retains the right to inspect/open any packages) and that it is packaged properly else we can't insure it.
Ok, onto your packaging: "The following equipment was well-packed (bubble wrap, etc)" Bubble wrap is NOT sufficient for a PC, you should have asked at where you shipped it if it was- did they tell you it was OK the way you sent it? Even if you did have insurance it would be DENIED...bubble wrap or peanuts isn't sufficient. Also, that UHaul box doesn't even look like it would pass the burst rating (don't know off hand) - that cardboard is way too thin. It looks like one of those UHaul clothing boxes that always breaks open... Also, since the box was shipped ground, it has more time to be handled by the package monkeys. All my computer stuff at work is shipped Next Day Air, which probably explains why it's never scratched - it's only in the system for 8-10 hours. Also, the box looks oversized- it probably didn't fit on a conveyor belt somewhere and had to be moved by some union guys by cart in and out of the trailers it went through... more handling by monkeys...
Finally, for a computer to be insurable it should either be shipped in:
A) Original manufacturer's box.
B) Corrugated cardboard box with sufficient burst rating (sorry, I don't know off hand), and a minimum of 2" of foam around the PC, which must be inside another box.
Unless maybe someone at the UPS site said the computer you shipped was packed properly, you're SOL. Sorry.
A friend of mine designs embedded systems for the military. He told me about one prototype that was tested. They drop it, freeze it, cook it, and shake it to see if it will withstand the torture.
The prototype passed the military testing with flying colors. It was then destroyed beyond repair by UPS. They could not fully insure the replacement cost of the prototype
(parts and engineering time) so they were screwed.
I order vinyl on a regular basis, and the only way it arrives to me in good condition is when I buy it on Ebay. I can't tell you how many records I have had ruined from the likes of Amazon, BN.com, etc...
Hey brainiacs...thin vinyl record, obviously I am buying vinyl for its collectability, i dont want it bent in half or all four corners crushed.
Worst part is, most will gladly let you return it and send another IN THE SAME EXACT PACKAGING. This never fails. Hmmm - it didn't work before, maybe this time!!!!
raretshirts.com - cool vintage t-shirts
Now that he got rid of his shitty Macs he can get some real computers instead !
got a package through UPS, and they heard this
scratching noise from inside. Finally, they
opened it up, and found a dozen baby alligators
and a mass murderer with a hook for a hand!
But seriously, don't most of these comments have
that "urban legend" flavour? "A friend of a
friend of mine sez that UPS does X, Y, and Z."
I'd say it's unworthy of Slashdot, but I'm not
so sure.
In the UK we have Parcel Force. I don't know if they break things. Of the three parcels I have sent with them, only one arrived (8 months later).
A friend who worked in the local depot told me that losses are not unusual. People's 'last remains' seem to be a speciality.
look, get the damn insurance, it's that simple. It's also very cheap for the dollar amount you specified. there are so many things that could damage your package, it would be hard for ups to ever nail it down. therefore, insurance is necessary and pretty cheap. and don't argue the point because you know i'm right!
NO, NO, NO. You are right! Don't give up your fight. The reason that insurance exists in the first place is to secure un-replaceable items (i.e. an antique or valueable piece of art that does NOT have a replacement). Unfortunately, insurance has become a means to financially back any old item, at least in the shipping world. I think your packages were mistreated. I'm don't care what methods the shipping company uses to move packages, but by buying their service, you are making an implied agreement that they will get your package from point A to point B UNHARMED! Don't listen to most of these posts, your packages were fine and, again, you were mistreated. Take them to small claims court. SUE! SUE! SUE! Really, I'm appaled and this is completely un-called for.
/. posts get you down, you can win this thing.
Go to the nearest UPS office, or location, talk to a face, not just a voice or a computer. Let them know you are upset! Let, them see your glaring eyes and red face when they tell you, "There's nothing I can do." If you yell loud enough, things will get done. Keep up your fight! Don't let the pessimistic
What has happened to business these days? What ever happened to the "deal" that was based on a handshake? What ever happened to doing business face-to-face?
You can get the Tupperware replaced for free. On the rest good luck.
UPS saved the day by going even further than the reference story. They delivered an empty box with tire tracks all over it. Now the original was in a plant-hardened enclosure. So UPS eventually found it. Rumor from the UPS representative on the phone that it caused problems on the airport tarmac was how it was discovered. Well the unit finally arrived at the customer destination, scratched, dented, crushed and not a single circuit board inside in one piece.
The shipping manager had insured it for the estimated value of that part of the contract. So our company got paid a handsome check and we got a major extension. Customer was happy, he didn't have to pay for a non-delivery and we all had an excuse for a non-working prototype. It was a win-win-win scenario.
After that we used UPS for vibration and drop testing of units. It was much cheaper than actually hiring a stress testing engineer.
I used to wonder what was so holy about a silent night, now I have a child.
I shipped with UPS once. _ONCE_
those pics remind me oh so much of my poor batterd P2, whose only offense to the world was dual booting to 98se for gaming. similar extent of damage to the case. Managed to salvage a sound card and a NIC from the box, the rest is toast. Yes, that includes the case.
Insurance? yeah, I was told I had it. I paid for it. When I tried to claim on it, I was told that I couldn't because it was a personal shipment, and sure enough, they cheerfully ignored the insurance forms I'd filled out.
In the end, all told between that system and damage to another one, I ended up having to shell almost $1200 for replacement parts, and for my trouble, I got pretty much zip.
So, don't ship UPS. Don't believe them when they claim they will let you insure it. if it's not a business shipment, their insurance dept. won't go near it. From now on I'm using Purolator
using a shipping company that pays its
workers a living wage, plus benefits,
so they give a shit about their jobs,
and therefore the stuff of yours they're
paid to handle.
Oh, right, there isn't one,
because everyone makes their selection
based on cost only.
nearly a year ago. We bought a PowerMac 8100 on eBay. The shipment was going roughly 100 miles via UPS ground. It took over a week to get to us. This is because it actually made it onto the delivery truck that goes to our house and the driver got confused and thought it was supposed to go to the person who shipped it. Unfortunately, he provided a PO box so it went back to the hub from which it originated and UPS sent a postcard to the PO box.
Once we were able to get the box delivered to us, the 8100 was destroyed. The case was in no less than 50 pieces, two of the struts holding the fan in the power supply had sheered off, the graphics card was unseated (and this card is not easily removed), the bezels that covered the empty drive bay and the floppy were broken, and the hard drive was severely damaged. I think the only things that were still usable after all was said and done was the motherboard, the graphics card, and the memory. Here's the complete saga.
UPS did end up reimbursing the shipper who in turn reimbursed us. They were going to send someone out to pick up the box but no one ever showed. I'm guessing they figured it wasn't worth the trouble. But now we will not do business with someone if the only option is to ship via UPS. The service in our area is too unreliable.
-Jennifer
Easy, there was a jam on a belt, after several thounds of packages build up behind the stuck packages, something has to give. Your package just happened to be one of the unlucky ones.
I always thought UPS insured the 1st $100 for free each additional is
I have to move every four months at least for the next little while and my last move I shipped my cpu with *name above*. I used puralotar twice, the first time I was very happy, didnt have a single problem.
The second time, my tower was dropped (luckily not the monitor). Now this shouldnt have been a problem since I insured the sucker for almost 2000$ (note that monitors cant be insured). Well, I got screwed because I had sent the computer to my brothers place and the delivery was made in a manner to conceal the damage. So my brother signed for it and didnt notice the damage. So I couldnt claim for the damages.
Anyway, in total it cost me about 700$ to replace damaged components, including my motherboard and tower.
The lesson: Be weary, delivery people dont want to get fired so they hide things.. my tower box was only wrecked noticably from one side as if it fell on the corner of a step.
Until now, I really thought that it is only in our country, the Philippines, where UPS sucks. They also suck in North America. My experience with these clowns were always frustrating. When I tried sending CD media for some software licenses through them, they ALWAYS fucked it up bad with our customs. In all these instances, I ended up asking the software supplier to send me another copy. For several times that UPS was able to get the CD media through, they were several weeks late and billed me several hundreds of US dollars more. I now ship through FedEx and I still don't have any horror story with them.
I sorted packages in a small warehouse, "only" 125 to 250 tons each night.
Every day tens of packages were dropped, busted open, spilled, lost, or just plain run over by six ton forklifts. In one particular (sickly) humorous incident, a forklift operator loading a stack of dell PCs onto a truck misjudged his angle and positively squished a handful of PC boxes to less than half their original width.
In Airborne's main shipping center, they have mechanisms that actually pick up the entire truck trailer, turn it vertical, and dump the contents onto a conveyor belt. UPS probably does the same, since they do more than 10x Airborne's business.
When you're trying to sort millions of tons (no exaggeration) of packages each day at a major hub, it's tremendously cheaper to replace broken items than it is to handle everything carefully.
I'm sorry you got burned. Next time, make damned sure you get the insurance on the shipment.
A friend of mine once had a package shipped from Harrisburg, PA to Lancaster, PA which is about a 30 minute drive, mostly highway. Anyhow, we tracked the package via their website when we were wondering why it did not arrive the next day. Turns out, they shipped it via Massachusetts. Yeah, from PA to PA via MA. That makes NO sense whatsoever.
Some distribution sites are better then others for both FedEx and UPS. I have heard stories of damaged goods from both, but in different locations. In my case, the local UPS is horrible. They actually had video of workers DROP KICKING packages off the truck! FedEx, on the other hand, tends to get me my packages without a dent or scratch. Now, at my parent's house in the next state its reversed. Saddly, most online retailers (the only real time I use shipping comps) usually only ship with one or the others. Personally I'd love to have more options, and even get USPS in there as they tend to have good handlers and are cheaper too.
"A coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave but one."
UPS, FedEx, there's really no difference. We ship stuff all the time -- probabaly 85% UPS, 15% FedEx. We *always* declare the value of what we're shipping.
We've had bad experiences with both. UPS has damaged and lost items, but we had a laptop stolen *from the FedEx center* in Nashville (by a FedEx employee)!
UPS has usually been pretty good about paying up, except in one or two cases involving 19" monitors. The carton a new monitor is shipped in is usually considered "insufficient packaging" by UPS in claims involving monitors.
Absurdity: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion. -- Ambrose Bierce
And don't forget that boxes have six sides. One time someone shipped me a new-in-box Atari 5200 trackball. By shoving it in the bottom of a box with the exact same "floor" dimensions, and filling the rest of the space on top with foam peanuts. Needless to say, when the outside box got a corner scrunched from being dropped, so did the inside box. This is because there was nothing to absorb the impact, so it got transferred directly to the inside box.
As a counter-example, I once shipped a new-in-box rare (but sucky) old game system to someone. I packed it in a box that was at least four inches longer in all three dimensions, filled the bottom with foam peanuts, put the box I was shipping inside, filled around the edges with more peanuts, then filled it to the top.
As a final comment, have you ever noticed how boxes (at least the ones made and sold in the USA) have this circle with lots of words and numbers in it? That gives the strength rating of the box. From what I understand, this guy shipped two computers and a monitor in the same box! Which was probably a normal-strength box. I'm sorry, but first, no amount of foam peanuts is going to stop such items from banging into each other, and second, the weight of two tower computers and a decent sized monitor has to be on the order of at least 60 pounds/30 kilos. No way is a regular cardboard box going to retain its shape when it's being knocked around during shipping. He might as well have wrapped it in tissue paper for all that it mattered.
And, as mentioned before, if it wasn't filled tightly, stacking of boxes would have crushed it, and cardboard tends to lose its strength after being crushed. I'm sure the square-cube law has an effect here, too. A box two feet on a side, with the same relative thickness of cardboard, is going to be relatively only 1/8th as strong as a box with one foot long sides. And that's the same relative thickness. Which means thicker than the smaller box's cardboard, not the same thickness, as this would have been.
--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
It probably has something to do with UPS's recently implemented ANTHRAX detection methods. Fighting for Peace, is like Fucking for Virginity.
Fighting for Peace, is like Fucking for Virginity.
For the acts of some negligent employees, but certainly UPS the corporation should take a more proactive role in fixing this guy's situation now. I'm sure a little /. exposure might help.
I once had a UPS guy pick up a vendor's computer equipment that we had borrowed and sent back. He stacked way too much on his hand cart presumably to make a single trip. As he started moving, the top box (a monitor), did a back flip and landed on the ground. His response? "Whoops! You always lose one!"
But then again, I dropped an HP monitor out of the back of a minivan once. They were very nice about it though and didn't even blink when I explained the situation.
If you ship something from the US to Canada by UPS, the Canadian recipient must pay GST and PST, and any applicable duties. This is okay according to Canadian law. The recipient must also pay a brokerage fee, which is around $35 plus tax. There are often UPS delivery fees, *even if the shipper paid it all in advance*.
As well, paying extra for 2nd Day delivery is a waste of money; it doesn't count across the border. And trying to have something held for pickup at UPS's out-of-the-way pickup points is a nightmare -- it takes 48 hours for a delivery order to get changed.
Trying to complain is comical. The call taker takes the information, and promises that someone will call back. The call is returned by a person who will not leave their name or phone number on an answering machine, and who calls from a blocked number ("So that we don't get all kinds of calls directly from people trying to complain" -- sheesh!).
Moral of the story? If it's a hurry, use FedEx (upfront cost is higher than UPS, total cost is lower). Otherwise, use US/Canada Post.
An old friend of mine worked for UPS for a couple years, and he had similar stories of package destruction. He said they'd commonly build up a wall of boxes as they came in, to conserve space in the warehouse. When it was time to load the trucks, someone would come by yelling "tear 'em down!" and they'd knock the whole wall down.
If you had a fragile box that happened to be at the top of one of their walls, good luck.
He also said there were definitely issues with theft of packages - although he agreed that UPS did have pretty good policies in place to try and prevent it. He said the boxes that were labeled prominently as to their contents were at the highest risk. (That's why many companies like CDW ship boxes packed inside a plain-looking outer box. It's more tempting for someone to steal an item shipped in a pretty box with color photos of the product on the front.)
This comes from an extensive history of long distance computer shipments... Boston to LA, LA to Jacksonville, Jax to Seattle, Seattle to NYC, etc.
:
1. Use the MFG's original boxes if you saved them. If not,
2. Do not use loose fill (otherwise known as peanuts) to pack your equipment, neither FedEx not UPS will pay on claims where this was used (been burned twice).
3. Double Box! This is a necessity. It may seem stupid, but if you double box almost any claim will go through without question. (You can use loose fill in between the boxes).
4. Take photos BEFORE and take photos AFTER (preferably upon delivery, with the driver or truck in the picture, snap with him walking away if you need to).
5. If the box is damaged, have the driver (deliverer) note this. Make sure he/she does.
6. If you ordered something from a store and the box is damaged, just refuse it.
7. Pray.
Now remember, FedEx is NOT a box shipper. They like to deliver letters (big money, small hassle), and thus I have had MUCH better luck with UPS. But here it's trying to choose the lesser of two evils.
Hope this helps someone. I've lost way too many computers in shipping.
On a side note, in college I shipped a 'cinder block' from Boston to Pittsburgh. UPS broke it. No joke.
Don't forget the railyards. I'm not sure if FedEx or UPS uses train cars to ship across the continent, but watching the cars get slammed together as they shuffle the cars to make new trains, and hearing stories from friends who worked in receiving yards that unloaded the cars, if you're going to ship anything by rail - pack it in a double steal container with lots of padding.
I'm in my right mind and I have the answer to everything!
I do agree driving your crates is the best thing when the option is available.
My larger, custom bubble fountians typically cost $300-$1500 to ship. That's a lot of money to pay to a trucking company, UPS, etc.
So my first choice on the larger fountains is just to load it in the back of my truck, and drive there. The savings of paying high shipping costs is usually enough to drive anywhere in the country, plus have a great time traveling.
Customers love it when you personally deliver high-ticket items instead of just having it arrive in a box.
www.Beyond7.com Insane modern art water sculpture.
guess we'll be seeing more 'shipping horror stories' here ;))
Personally, I've send and received hundreds of packages via UPS in the last 3 years (my ebay feedback in 80 or so positives) w/ no problems at all except for one 60lb machine that was packed with NO padding at all on three sides, just shoved right up against the cardboard walls, and one double boxed bakelite radio that wasn't held stable (it was real fragile but allowed to bounce around inside). I even got a huge 20" 1950's TV send from Detroit to east VA that was JUST under the size/weight limit - arrived with outer box ripped (it was HEAVY) and the foam padding coming out but little damage to the set.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
I've had a similar experience. I built 2 computers for my brother in California and packed them in proper boxes with packing designed for them and shipped them insured. The boxes arrived in good shape but the computers were completely non-functioning.
Upon opening the cases the cables were all disconnected from the motherboards and the hard drive cages were broken loose. How in the world could they (UPS) do that kind of damage without ruining the shipping boxes is beyond me.
I'm guessing they somehow dropped the boxes so
that they landed on a flat side but that seems
like a difficult thing to do. Maybe they got
sandwiched between two 1000 lb pallets going down
the conveyor belt.
Anyway, keep after them. It may take awhile but
eventually you ought to get something out of them.
Our UPS driver delivers and picks up from our company every day...he also lazes around and uses the phone here for personal business for about 30 to 40 minutes every day. That's what I call service!
I don't give a fuck what anyone says, the USPS is still the best and cheapest way to ship. So fuck all you postal nazis out there.
Well, I thought about this some more, and decided I'd share a little more with you on my own insurance research. Standard caveat applies here of course - I'm just a consumer, not an insurance agent :)
.... no coverage! Not even through my car insurance policy!
;)
I have renters insurance with State Farm. It has lots of nice coverage on all my computer equipment. Being the paranoid person I am, I checked with them to see how extensive the coverage was on my laptop. I take a personal laptop with me to work.
Guess what? If I'd damaged that computer on the way to work, for example, in a car accident, or had dropped it at work
So - I got an extra policy ($45 per year for $4500 coverage) to cover just my laptop/software I carry around.
Now I can drop that dang thing anywhere, and State Farm will cover it. Hey, I can even send it somewhere UPS Ground and not worry about it. Given it's so old, perhaps I should do that, distinctively mark it Fragile, and start getting the paperwork ready so I can get a new laptop
Mike
I work at UPS as a midnight-time package handler near at an air-hub near the Chicago area.
I get paid 8.50 an hour, US.
There are a few issues that I thought about the other night while placing packages in my canister (the airplane's cargo is split up with these giant plastic/metal bubbles).
1a) We are not paid to be careful.
1b) Acutally, you do care about the packages . . . for about a week. After that, you care about hobbies you have, if it's going slow. (Computers, musical stuff, I care about . . . that's it. Medical supplies. Live animals.)
2) After training, absolutely nothing has been said to me about the throwing of packages.
3) The managers throw packages. Not just the part-time supervisors, but the full time managers. It gets hectic. They are not paid to care about the packages either.
4) We're supposed to flip over all packages to make sure there aren't other/bad labels on them or they are HazMats.
5) You can see only so many packages labled "fragile," "HOT," "EXTREMELY URGENT" (which every Next Day Air label says, incidentally) before you really don't notice any more. A girl flipped over these lizards, didn't even pay attention to them, even though they said "live reptiles" all over them.
6) Most people who work there are idiots.
7) Turnover is so high, being fired for disciplinary action (when possible: Teamster union) is a vacation. Most people that are fired can be re-hired shortly thereafter.
8) Say what you will about drugs and their positive effects on the human subconcious, but if they instituted drug testing, their staff would drop to half what it is now.
Yes, #6 probably includes me, but I need the extra 100 bucks a week.
Dan
I know that at my old job, UPS told me that they used to get pissed if you put fragile on the box, so they would make sure they threw it around...
on the other hand, I'm sure bubble tape isn't exactly "a great idea"...the foam that it came in is probably much better...i'm sure dell and compaq and gateway won't ship they're equiptment with bubble wrap..
bubble wraps good for memory and stuff..but...
.kb
Two Wrongs Don't Make A Right-- But They Make Me Feel A Whole Lot Better
We shipped a dell 2450 (2U) from Winnipeg to Utah. Fedex ran over it with a forklift. the front faceplate was cracked, cdrom unusable, part of the back had come off.. $5000 insurance and we didn't get a dime.
Server still works though. pretty amazing, considering.
Michael Dikkema Systems Administration Moot Technologies
I doubt it was still in the building - 5 finger discount and all.
We used DHL for a while to ship computers between offices. Then they figured out what we were shipping, and they stopped showing up.
We switched to FEDEX then.
If you've ever worked at a UPS distribution center, you'd wonder how anything gets anywhere in one piece. Its all about getting there ontime and keeping the schedule. If throwing a box marked fragile 30 feet saves 5 seconds, so be it. Time is money after all.
I won't buy a monitor online for this sole reason. I might as well buy one at a local store and drop kick it down my basement stairs 6-7 times before unpacking it if I'm having it shipped.
Shipping a computer is right up there with shipping small children. You should've driven to Florida with your monitor safely belted into your passenger seat. I would never trust my babies to UPS, FexEX or even the Glorious US Postal Service. If you shouldn't make the drive, then you should've given your boxes to someone who could love and care for them.
Gross negligence on your part.
Sipping on Jolt and Dew. Laid back. With my mind of my cubicle and my cubicle on my mind.
I shipped some como equipment insured. They refused to pay foor the damage cause they said the boxes were not new. Even though I had paid extra to have them pack it. NEVER send anything valuable UPS!
I work at a UPS center on the East Coast, sorting the packages to the trucks. Before I was promoted I was a loader. From what I saw of the pictures it looks like either a) the package was crushed on the conveyor belt between other packages, possibly during a jam on the belt or b) it was put into a a poorly built wall in a truck that fell and was crushed by heavy items. At least at my particular UPS center, I haven't seen any packages being dropped from a height. Damaged packages are usually caused by poor packaging oar getting crushed by heavier packages.
I see a lot of packages stuck together with scotch tape or using recycled boxes that simply will not survived the belt system itself. Use metal, heavy plastic, or wood crates to send your pacakages. At the very least, use a NEW reinforced cardboard box and pack it as tight as possible with shock absorbant materials. Wood and metal crates are always a pain to move around, but they survive a lot more often than cardboard.
Upper level management seems to be more concerned about moving packages then making sure they go where they are supposed to - if we get heavy flow on the belt they often yell at me for stopping to catch everything that comes my way to makes sure it goes where it is supposed to. They often spike the number of people unloading to get us out faster - but that also causes jams and damaged packages.
We do primarily get industrial as opposed to consumer goods. As another poster said, when you see some little wrapped present to a kid in the middle of 65 lb computers and encyclopedias. boxes, you do wince.
Also, I read one response where the author said that the heavy packages are put on first, then stuff is simply thrown behind it. I can't believe that is true, because the one of the things the company rides us for is making sure that we have nice and neat walls of packages so we can fit more stuff into the trucks. Perhaps the other center isn't following company policy, but that is one of the things that are considered a big deal in efficiency reports for supervisors.
A good amount of the people loading the trucks are high school kids that are not exactly serious about their job. They don't always treat packages with respect, but I haven't seen anyone breaking open a package to steal its stuff. The company does offer rewards for reporting theft, so at the very least it is discouraged. There are older people at UPS that care and try to do their jobs well, but between the high school loaders and the upper management it gets difficult at times.
I really think that all of the shipping companies are like this. Ask around and you'll hear horror stories about every company - UPS, FedEx, USPS, etc. It seems to depend on luck and how well you pack your goods. I hope he gets his money for the computer, and just remember that there are people at UPS that do care about getting your package where it is supposed to go.
I like to ship nice big boxes of nitrogen triiodide. Yah, just go ahead and drop that will yah!
I've never shipped large quantities of books, as I'm anal retentive, so I'd rather just do the drive myself. [luckily, I packed the trailer well enough that even with the fact that I managed to roll it, I didn't even even break any of the lightbulbs in there]
Okay, so that's a bad way to start off moving advice, but anyway... paper comes in boxes of a certain size. Anything larger than that stuffed with paper products is just asking for trouble. And those don't handle abuse well, so you can't just use 'em directly unless you're using them for your personal packing/moving.
There is, however, one advantage to using normal paper boxes... the tops of the boxes are loose, so you can crush the size of the box down to perfectly fit the size of the contents. With a normal box, you'll want to slit the sides (carefully, so that you can enlarge the flaps), and make sure the books have no wiggle room in them.
If you're looking for more book shipping tips...try asking someone who's ordered a large shipment from Amazon. [but remember...lots of small boxes are better than fewer large boxes]
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
I wonder what UPS employees use for their own shipping and do they punch themselves when they trash their own shipments?
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
(n/t)
We recently shipped a $5000 through UPS and it arrived in a damaged condition. The UPS driver stood there and watched us package this server ad atests to the fact that it was packaged properly. It has more than 6 inches of heavy duty flo-pak peanuts around the system with in double 200lb/sq inch corregated cardboard. Despite this, UPS claims of there was insufficient packaging. They say that we used used cardboard and the use of peanuts was insufficient for the weight.
Their claims however, are unfounded since their own speicifications for packaging says "Expanded polystyrene "peanuts" (not acceptable for packages weighing more than 70 pounds)". This package weighed in at 55lbs. Not only that, we used NEW corregated cardboard approved by Federal standards.
The claims that they give "high-value" packages "special" handling is simply not true. Despite the numerous fragile, this end up, and do not tumble stickers all over the box, it was treated like a rag doll.
The claim is currently being reveiwed by "senior management". Probably because they do not want to loose the $75000 a year we spend with them in shipping.
Be warned that it an "unwritten" corporate policy that all claim adjusters use the "insufficient packaging" for insurance claims.
Perhaps a class action lawsuit is in order...
we've given up on shipping altogether at my company, it started costing more than it was making because of all the destroyed merchandise & angry customers.
there doesnt seem to be a shipper anywhere thats capable of handling electronics
Our office recieves several (>20) packages a week, most shipped via UPS. At the end of the fiscal year, that number is comprised by ~50% new computer systems. The boxes haven't a flaw on them.
I can only surmise that your experience is far outside the norm. You probably ride out at the 99th percentile of problem shipments. I don't know what your shipment looked like before, but your packing seems to have been a little light for such a valuable item.
As for the other UPS bashers on this thread, I guess you are too young to remember the days before UPS. Most packages arrived via the USPS and had approximately the same damage rate. The difference between before and after UPS is:
1) UPS delivers the boxes to your door - the Postal Service doesn't (and didn't).
2) UPS delivers faster now than the USPS ever did when it controlled nearly all non-industrial package shipments.
If you think that FedEx is any better, you might want to compare the volume of packages shipping through the two respective companies. Comparing UPS to FedEx or Airborne is not apples to apples.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
If you ship UPS from the U.S. into Canada, the person who receives the package will have to cough up an obscene "brokerage fee", which can be anywhere from $20 to $70 or more depending on the value of the package -- it's essentially a package ransom - if you want your package you have to bend over. A brokerage fee is unavoidable, but UPS's brokerage fee is an obvious rip-off : if you ship USPS->CanPost there's a flat $5 brokerage fee. Hit this link for more information. And definitely check out this site.
This will never get modded up, since I am in A/C mode right now, but this is an obvious hoax. Check your facts before posting personal complaints.
I actually wrote a Hissyfit about my UPS nightmare. All I wanted to do was sell my ancient LC580. The Mailboxes Etc. guy said his packing methods were approved by UPS, and it cost a bundle so I thought I was okay. I dropped the packages off at the UPS counter and the fun began.
TWO MONTHS later, I got a refund on my shipping charges and was reimbursed for my loss--about $200 in all. The only reason I got any money back at all was because UPS said their counter rep should have rejected my package due to insufficent packaging but didn't. I was able to reimburse my buyer who actually left me positive feedback after all we'd been through for this stupid computer.
There's a pretty good picture of the damage in that Hissyfit article. Needless to say I a) will never ship anything that big and heavy again if I can help it and b) I will sure as hell not be shipping it via UPS. Sonsabitches.
There's only two songs in me, and I just wrote the third. --TMBG
A few years back I used UPS to ship a computer to Europe from the US. It was a laptop. I used the original factory packaging:
- study shell to take pressure off the computer inside
- lots of foam inside to dampen vibrations and shock
The box arrived squished by about a third of its original thickness. UPS must have put it at the bottom of a large pile of heavy stuff.
So I complain to UPS, they give me the runaound. Finally I take them to court in Small Claims Court - it's only $15 per case, and you don't need a lawyer. Instead of offering any kind of settlement beforehand in order to save everybody's time, they wait until 5 minutes before we are being called up by the judge to present our cases to approach me and offer a settlement. 5 minutes! Why? I think at that point in time they decided that it was better for them to reimburse me for all my cost and the computer, rather than have a judge order them to pay that _and_ indemnizations for my time etc.
Good luck.
References:
Small Claims Suits for Dummies...
I recently shipped some valuable art via UPS and had a long discussion with the woman at the counter about the vagaries of the UPS system. What is important here is that UPS ground involves lots of conveyor belt transfers. Packages must be able to withstand an 18" drop. They also undergo considerable "grinding" as discussed above. The solution is to ship 2nd day air. This drastically reduces the amount of handling the package receives. For even more precious cargo use Next Day Air -- then it is basically hand-delivered. I know these options are more expensive, but consider them a form of insurance. In my case UPS insured my packages for $2500 each, but required that I ship 2nd Day Air. When I buy computers mail order they always come 2nd Day. Now I think I understand why.
Dude! You screwed up big time. Grow some guts and admit when you misused the sytem and now are trying to get somebody else to take the blame for it.
MILLIONS of people use UPS all the time, every single day. The statistics of how many packages are damaged number in the 100's - if that. Thats less than 1/10th of a percentage point. Can they do a better job? Sure. Any company can. It requires new systems and procedures.
Oh yeah, like UPS is going to roll over just for you. Get over it man. Next time, pack the shipment as others have suggested.
Good journeys to you.
-FlynnMP3
You are mad at UPS for the incredibly crappy packing job you did? How the hell can ANYONE ship a monitor w/o the orig foam?
Some other assh*le shipped a server with nothing but peanuts!! Look dickwads, you have to imobilize the stuff with something that DOESN'T COMPRESS!! Why do you thing EVERYTHING is shipped with special foam that fits the end dimensions of the box, cuz they like to spend money on expensive cool looking foam sh*t?? I guess this is what you get when a dickwad with a SW degree tries to do anything remotely related to mech engineering.
The thing probably did get dropped more often than normal, due the all the UPS guys LAUGHING THEIR ASS OFF at your packaging.
Please, move back to Canada, you will never figure out the voting forms in Florida!!
By slightly overestimating the chances of damage they can make a small profit on each insured delivery.
Thus the only reason they would not offer insurance is if they know the chance of damage is so high you'd choke on the premium.
We won't insure it basicly means `we plan to break it'.
_O_
.|< The named which can be named is not the true named
Sorry about your shipping disaster. I would suggest two computers plus a monitor is too much mass to go in one cardboard box. And too much to be handled by one person - which is how UPS parcels get handled. For valuable computers, radios, & sound equipment I suggest a wooden crate, with pallet slots to accommodate forklifts, and motor freight shipping.
Sounds like it passed through their World Trace Center depot, or was it their air shipment over Pennsylvania that same day?
When I used to work in a warehouse, everything was marked fragile. Heavy, metal things without movable parts were marked fragile. Crates of cereal were marked fragile.
You can't treat everything as if it was easily breakable, so we basically treated everything as if it wasn't. Not ideal, but I don't really see any alternative as long as those labeling boxes are dishonest in an attempt to retrieve special treatment.
So THAT'S what happened to that deer urine I ordered!!!!!
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
You'd end up with a box containing a broken camera and/or a busted tape-recorder.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
How does shipping a tape recorder qualify as terrorism? How would it even be illegal? (assuming you weren't using it to violate state recording laws) Sounds like the definition of terrorism is getting pretty loose these days.
And Jon Ashcroft is personally arresting people?
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
I have roommates that for both FedEx and UPS in Columbus, OH. DeVry (where I'm going) has special deals with them to get college students working there. Needless to say,when I order something online and have it shipped, I get firsthand accounts of what might have happpened to the box. My roommate that works for FedEx just got promoting from loading to unloading. He says it is easier because he gets to toss the boxes wherever he wants. Kinda scary how something like that works.
Where's the plastic peanuts in these photos? There should be peanuts and styrofoam dust all over the place. I don't see any at all.
you'd at least expect the carrier to make a good faith effort to deliver your goods intact. I mean, if all they are going to do is destroy every piece of goods that gets into their hands, what good are they?
Your experiences are ~really~ going to depend on the route that your parcel has to take. International shipments go thru alot of hands, which leads to larger possibility of damage.
I've shipped many items cross country, which have arrived in pristine condition. I've also had other items shipped from relatively close by, only to see the packages mangled beyond recoginition.
About 1 yr ago, I built a new computer for my mother (this was when I lived in California). the packages were delivered from the mail order outlet to her in NY, then shipped to me in California VIA UPS. They all arrived in pristine condition.
After construction, the computer was packed in the original box the case was packed in (with extra crap on top.. a layer of Zip disks was on the top. UNPADDED), not a single zip disk was cracked in the return shipment.
And yes, my shipmet was insured for cost. But insurance should not be to assure that your shipment gets proper handling, it's supposed to be to cover catastrophic loss. Like accidental damage/destruction (auto or plane crash), or a lost parcel (i've never had this happen to me, but it's probably a sure bet that if a package is "lost", it was probably taken by someone).
I'd absolutely sue if I was you, and don't just sue for the cost of the items, sue for damages. You should go talk to a laywer and see what options you have available.
There is not any way you will find out who touched your package, they scan stuff, but there is usually two unloaders per truck and it passes over 100 people and at least 20 belts before it hits a regular brown truck. Don't ship UPS and if someone ships to you via ups and there is any damage to the box, dont accept it. I saw Trailer trucks tip over during winter, small packages falling down between the gap between the trucks and dock, when it's freezing outside and something hits the snow no one goes outside to retrieve this. Not to mention thier computer network is not even close to state of the art.
Sad but true.
... i can say we are profiling ourself as the 'high-quality' shipment company. It is the one thing we are proud of and promote all the time.
But everybody must be realistic in these cases, sometimes packages travel half the world, go through many hands, planes, trucks,... you can tell a package has been traveling half the world just be looking at it, that is a fact, no way around it.
If your take care of your package to wrap it up decently, i'm pretty sure damage will be to the cover of the package only.
FedEx is very sensitive about damaged packages. I can asure you as employee you shouldn't try to pull of a stunt like this without getting sacked.
I have had many, many problems over the past five+ years with UPS. I used to call to complain, but they make it obvious that they just don't give a sh**. The only solution is to avoid using them whenever possible.
Any time you have to transport a piece of electronic gear, it's MUCH easier (and safer) if you still have the original packing material. At the very least, you should be keeping the original packaging for the duration of the warranty -- it makes getting warranty service a whole lot easier. I got into the habit of keeping boxes when I was in the military and was moving around a lot. It may be a bit of a pain to store the boxes, but my stereo equipment has survived 5 major cross-country moves (and several more shorter ones) without a single scratch.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
http://www.complaints.com/
Ahh... the power of chocolate!
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
I work for a UPS center in Wisconsin, and you wouldnt believe how common that is... actually, i unload the trailers, and the way they are loaded sometimes, you have boxes, packages, monitors, etc, dropping 10 or 12 feet. Yeah, those pictures dont surprise me one bit. What you need to do now is complain. alot.
And the Post office won't ream you with brokerage fees either.
UPS has some serious issues in exactly this department. No one you talk to is actually able to do anything about your problem. No power, no decision-making ability. I suspect that this is on purpose.
My last (ever) dealing with UPS was after I moved back to LA from college in Indiana. I shipped six large boxes full of stuff, and paid about $450 to have it all sent back to LA.
After two weeks of waiting, a notice finally arrived on my door from UPS, letting me know that they'd tried to deliver my stuff, but that I wasn't home to receive it, and they'd try again the next day.
I called them up to see why I had to be home. I was doing temp work at the time, and couldn't simply stay home for a day waiting for UPS to show up. And after all, I was living in my parents' house, which is in a very safe neighborhood, and has a walled-in (6') front yard. (And just going to get my stuff from the UPS center wasn't possible.) I was told that since a couple of the boxes were computers, I normally had to be there to sign for them, but if I wanted, they'd just leave them on the front porch.
Another day goes by, and when I get home, there's another note: "Sorry we missed you! -UPS"
I call again, and I'm (again) told that the usual policy blah blah blah... But if you'd like, we can just leave them on the doorstep. I remind the customer service rep of their "3-Try Policy": They'll try to deliver it three times. If they can't deliver it after three attempts, the box goes back where it came from. He confirms that this is UPS's policy, and assures me that my shipment will be delivered the next day.
Next day: "Sorry we missed you!"
I call again. Pissed.
ME: After two phone calls, and two attempts to deliver my stuff, it's still not here.
REP: Well, it's our policy not to deliver computers unless we can get someone to sign for them.
ME: But the guy I spoke to yesterday assured me that my stuff would be delivered anyway, since I called specifically about it.
REP: Well, it's like anything... If you don't get it in writing, you really don't have a leg to stand on.
[This was followed by several minutes of silent sputtering fury as I try to avoid screaming into the telephone.]
ME: What?
REP: Well, our policy is that we don't deliver computers without a signature. Now, whatever they told you yesterday is irrelavent. It's like anything in life: get it in writing.
ME: So what you're saying is that if I don't make you sign a piece of paper, then you're allowed to lie to me?!
REP: Well, I wouldn't say it like that--
ME: What's your name?
REP: Sorry?
ME: Give me your name, and get me your supervisor. NOW.
After several minues of talking to the manager (I did not lose my temper), he assured me that the package would be delivered, and that no signature would be necessary. I reminded him that I've paid a great deal of money to have these boxes delivered, and that if they miss me one more time, all my stuff is going to go back to Indiana.
The next day, the UPS guy shows up, and thank God my dad happened to be working at home that day-- the delivery guy needed a signature.
I will never use UPS again. USPS is simply the best way to go. Extremely reliable, and completely cooperative with all of my requests.
Fedex ::Ground:: is actually RPS, one of the worst carriers ever, IMO.
I had a clueless luser ship me a computer in a paper box. No, really.
It was a desktop model, and they put it in a copier paper box. It didn't exactly fit, so they put it in at an angle, and sort of taped around the lid of the box, which wasn't all the way on. Padding? There wasn't room for any padding. Besides, it was such a tight fit, the computer wasn't going to bounce around any, so why would it need padding?
The Emery guy didn't even leave it in the mailroom. He came directly to the computer area, gingerly carrying the box and a damage form. Four of the box's seams had sprung, leaving basically a big wide loop of cardboard around an otherwise-naked computer.
The punchline is, the case wasn't even scratched, so I told the guy not to get worried yet, and grabbed a spare monitor and keyboard and booted the puppy up... and it was perfectly fine. Apparently all the handlers just felt so sorry for the poor thing that they were actually gentle with it.
Slashdot's token middle-aged housewife
Thought I'd address some people's comments and share some of the correspondence I've been getting.
The email I've been getting has been broken into a few classifiable types I'll go in order of volume:
1) "Me too" stories. There are so many of these, I find it hard to believe people are still shipping anything with UPS Ground. Some folks are crying for a class-action lawsuit but I am very skeptical of that idea. I'm going to pursue small claims from UPS, but it's hard to get a handle on an agent as a representative for them. Every time you call UPS, you are starting from Ground Zero. Their customer service has been by far the most frustrating part of this whole deal.
2) "You are an idiot" posts. I got a lot of posts/emails along these lines critiquing my packing job. For the record, I did not ship these things in their original foam cutouts. I DID use a thick, professional moving box, and packed it very tightly with bubble wrap and other items. Nothing could move around or shake. I shipped 9 boxes and 6 were severely damaged. The heaviest ones were the most damaged.
In hindsight, the equipment was not packed well enough. Do not ship anything electronic unless you have the original packaging, especially the foam cutouts. However, at the point of departure, the boxes were inspected and deemed good to go. I didn't put priority on the speed of the shipment, so I was lead to believe UPS Ground was a good choice. I had NO IDEA that UPS Ground stuff was treated so poorly compared to 3 day or next day delivery. Perhaps I was a little naive in this case, but it's not exactly common knowledge. I still feel that there was a lot of negligence on the part of UPS to take my few hundred dollars and proceed to destroy my shipment.
3) "You are a fake" posts. There have been people emailing me telling me that I did the damage myself or photoshopped images (???) to "create" the damage. I really don't know how to counter this except to come here and post myself. The RCA jack is a vid-in jack for a video capture card. It was the only card that stayed screwed into it's slots. The other cards bent. I can only assume that something rigid was pressed up against the back of the case and pushed the pin up. In any case, if I was an attention seeker, I would have written "anthrax" all over the shipment in big red letters. The only thing I did to the computers was unpack them, and take off the side panels. The side panel on the PC was still on, the G4 side panel was still closed, but the PowerTower Pro's panel had been sheared open a bit.
I can only assume that the damage done to computers was from shock, dropping, and forcibly confined among differently shaped objects. I can't even begin to speculate what happened to these boxes enroute.
Now for the good news, I have no progress getting compensation from UPS. However, a lot of people have emailed me saying that they were going to ship computers in moving boxes via UPS this week and are changing their plans and shipping next day with FedEX or USPS. From all of the "it happened to me too" emails I've received, it seems like a lot of people learn this lesson the hard way, as I did. Having so many people see the website and knowing I've done a small part in saving many a naïve geek (like myself) a lot of grief just makes my day.
Being a PC system integrator, I regualarly ship computers using UPS out of New England, and have yet to have any problem with any of the shipments.
Assembled computers should have a MINIMUM of 2 inches (~5 cm) of styrofoam padding (told to me by UPS). The original box for empty cases/enclosures typically only have 1 to 1.5 inches of styrofoam depending on the weight of the case. This is sufficient for shipping an empty case, but since assembled computers can weigh double that of the case itself, the original packaging is not sufficient for shipping that.
I've never liked those unionized buffoons in their crap brown uniforms.
FedEx is the only way to go...I stopped using UPS years ago when one of their drivers tried to shake me down for a Christmas tip. I was an occasional user then, but I never felt his service was worthy of a tip. After that incident I swore I'd never entrust anything to those ham-fisted blundering fools again.
Yes, I've lost my share of valuable packages using UPS. They've lost, broken, destroyed, spindled and mutilated more items of value than I care to remember. Same for several friends.
Screw 'em. FedEx rules
That's a flight case, you dope. It's meant to be handled by careless roadies, and dragged from town to town. Most musical instrument and equipment cases are rated far higher than a cardboard box with foam peanuts, and the people who make them stay in business because equipment on tour survives year after year in them. This is clearly a case of deliberate and wanton abuse.
I usuallly send really big stuff throught Amtrak's Freight Service. Just put it in a wooden crate and my scooter got from Albany, NY to Portland, OR in 4 days without a problem.
That's a flight case, you dope. It's meant to be handled by careless roadies, and dragged from town to town. Most musical instrument and equipment cases are rated far higher than a cardboard box with foam peanuts, and the people who make them stay in business because equipment on tour survives year after year in them. This is clearly a case of deliberate and wanton abuse.
With only a half inch of foam padding for protection? Sorry, I've seen flight cases and they typically have far more padding than the case on your page. It may be marketed as a flight case, but its not a very good one.
UPS is a total nightmare on anything that crosses the border, either way. Believe me, I know. I've dealt with them four times, the first since I didn't know any better, the second since I had no choice if I wanted the package delivered, the third when I forgot to tell the shipper NO UPS and the last I said NO FRICKEN UPS but they shipped it that method anyways. It was a nightmare EVERY SINGLE TIME. I now refuse to deal with any organization that ships with them and refuse any package they try to deliver.
I know I'm posting late, but let me add my tale of woe to any others who also read slashdot a few days late...
I shipped my computer (Mac 4400 - actually, I wasn't that sorry to see that POS go) UPS Ground coming home for the summer over my sophmore year of college. Fortunately, I didn't really need my computer much that summer, but I sure would have if was at school. Cracked the motherboard, but managed not to damage anything else. The box looked pretty similar to the author's box, but I didn't think anything of it 'cause it was the original box with like 3" of hard foam padding. I actually had insured it for about 1.5x what it was worth, and they amazingly where fairly straightforward about paying for it too. Went to a computer shop, got them to say "yes, it's fuxord" and then even kept the hard drive, which would have been the only thing they could have salvaged for any real cash.
Aftermath: Bought a Mac B&W G3, and have carried it on board the plane with me whenever I fly. The handles come in real handy, I attached a strap form an old soccer bag and it works like a large purse. Plus, started up several conversations with people about my "luggable". Bought a cheap 17" for use at home, and now that I'm out of school, I've got both monitors (I actually drove the last time, so I strapped my comptuer and monitor in my passenger seat) set up side-by-side. Scary thing is I've only gotten stopped once by security, but I haven't flown with it in almost a year.
Kurdt
I'm not anti-social. Just pro-technology.
plan. I've seen it work. Write nasty (not vulgar) letters, call every other day, make a niusance of yourself! Make it a hobby to annoy them.
IMPORTANT!: Get names of EVERYone you speak to, keep call logs. Reference past calls every time you phone them. Ask to speak with supervisors, managers, etc.
CustomerServiceMouse
I live in Canada, so my experiences are probably different than any of the Merkins around here.
UPS: These guys really suck nasty ass when you live in eastern Canada. They don't actaually operate here. It gets passed on to Sameday (Someday) courier. I bought a laptop from Egghead which took a month to get here. There is no such thing as "air shipping" around here as far as UPS is concerned, even though their major call center is in New Brunswick. Worse than that, they pull a "Microsoft" by making their customers (including Matrix Orbital, sigh) sign a contract forcing them to use only UPS, even though the customers pay for it. I have tried numerous times to use Fedex or Purolator, to no avail. Even USPS is way better, IMO.
Fedex: No trouble. No problems. I have never had trouble with these guys. I recommend them if you're Canadian.
Purolator: Yes and no, mostly yes. They're really quick, even with the cheap rates. I was totally surprised at first that I was getting next day service without expecting it. My brother used to work for them, so I always used to get my packages directly from him. He'd sign and give it to me later, saving me a lot of trouble (I was in school or at work in the daytime). I buy a lot of stuff from DigiKey, who publishes a Canadian catalog (and a very cool website) with duties and GST included in the prices. They use Purolator by default if you're in Canada. They handle the GST themselves. That is truly cool, for a company based in Thief River Falls, MN, USA. Stuff comes in record time, even with the cheap rates. On the other hand, they destroyed a VA Linux server on us (my company), that was enclosed in a custom shock-mounted case we had made for us (demo server). They paid us fully what we originally paid for it and gave us a formal apology. That's very cool, IMO.
Fedex: Never a problem. "Overnight" shipping takes 2 days, instead of one, when ordering from the States. I just paid CAN$200 for SuSE 7.3 in this situation... Damn duties. I am relatively happy, though. This probably has a lot to do with how impressed I am with 7.3 (released on FTP today, in case you were wondering why the mirror sites were slow as hell, and probably still are).
Canada Post: Believe it or not, I am happy with the service. They are much cheaper than anybody else, and I just today recieved a shipment from BC (I'm in Halifax) that was sent out yesterday. Bravo. Crown corporations *do* work.
That's just my experience. Some of you probably have different experiences. Maybe it's like hard drives, where everybody has *one* brand they refuse to buy, based on past experiences. (I have 2: Western Digital and Maxtor, ugh)
Shipping animal waste this way is seriously illegal. You dad could have gone to prison. Anybody who got caught pulling this stunt after 9-11 probably would go to prison.
This is illegal because it's dangerous. People who never did anything to your dad could have been harmed.
Who do you think went around smelling of deer piss for a month? Not the managers whose decision-making screwed your dad over. Not the stockholders who profit from those decision. The people he ended up punishing were the ordinary, hard-working, underpaid people who do the actual work. Where's the justice in that?
Maybe I was just lucky, but I sent an old mini-tower wrapped in clothes in a cardboard box from Mexico City to Pennsylvania via FedEx. Nothing was seriously damaged. The faceplate seemed to have been forcibly removed, though, probably by the nice folks at Customs, looking for drugs or a bomb.
Mi klopodas varbi por Esperanto.
I find it interesting that there not only seems to be a lot of UPS horror stories on this thread, but also that there seems to be a distinct lack of either Fedex or USPS horror stories. Quite telling. Conspicuous by its absence.
Let me get this straight: You put a Powermac G4 tower, an PowerTower Pro, and a monitor all in one box, and expected them to survive?
As he pointed out elsewhere on this thread, no, he didn't. He packed each of them into three separate boxes.
As for insurance, it was not available to him as an option.
Lastly, the packing WAS inspected by UPS before he shipped, and UPS accepted the packing.
And you get modded up to 5 for posting a bunch of incorrect assumptions that you made?
I have been a UPS employee for 16 years and first let me say, I'm sorry for your trouble. Now, let me help clarify a few things.
1. UPS does insure international packages.
2. UPS does not insure ANY electronic equipment that is not in the oringinal manufacturer's carton. This is because the manufactureer has done tests to see which packaging can handle our system.
3. Uhaul boxes are not as strong as the boxes the computer companies use to ship their computers.
4. Bubble wrap and peanuts will compress with the weight of the computer on them and eventally you will be left with the box not being packed as tight as when it started.
5. If you look on the bottom of the box, there will be a circle there saying what the bursting strenght of the box is. (Usually 200 LBS) If you reuse a box, The bursting strength gets cut in half and should not be used to ship anything of value.
Now, let me give you some advice.
1. If you don't have the original manufacturer's carton when shipping electronic equipment, go to a place like Mail Boxes Etc. and have them package it for you. They will use a molded foam packing and insure it through their company. Then, if anything goes wrong, you deal with them.
2. If you shipped it through a UPS customer counter, and put on the receipt that it was a computer, you do have a claim and should pursue it. The customer counters sometimes make a mistake and accept electronic equipment that is not packed properly and they have paid claims on that before.
3. Try writing of the loss on your taxes. I'm no tax expert, but you cloud give it a shot.
UPS ships millions of packages a day and unfortunately, the ones that are not packed right end up looking like the one you shipped.
I understand that UPS US has a pretty good reputation, and UPS Canada doesn't have a bad reputation, that I know of. I'm guessing that the two companies hate each others' guts, or something.
The upshot is that I (alongg with just about anybody who read that thread) now specifically warn anybody who ships something from the states that They should not use UPS under any circumstances whatsoever.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
That said, I posted this comment because I was asked to provide a description of what I had done. It actually sparked a bit of discussion and I recieved quite a few emails about this project.
The comment started out as a 2. I didn't expect it to get modded up since it says in the subject line that it is off-topic. Because it was and interesting post though it got modded up to a 4. I thought that was overrated and so did someone else since they quickly modded it down as overrated. Fine. Then there was an off-topic mod leaving it at 2. Also fine. I admitted it was off topic to begin with.
What annoys me is the second OT mod. I am going to repeat myself here: The post was obivously interesting to quite a few people. It generated more of a response than anything I've ever posted before. I ADMITTED that it was OT in the subject line. If someone didn't want to read it, fine, they could easily see that it was OT. However, it was also interesting and something worth sharing. Having it rated higher allowed it to be shared with more people.
The second person to mod it as ot is a lemming, pure and simple! I can read their mind, "Must use mod points!"
Am I taking this too seiously? Yes.
End Of Rant.
Lasers Controlled Games!
ugh... athlon xp 1600+ (1.4ghz). the heatsink ripped the tabs off the socket. there is enough of the tab left to hold it on temporarily until a heatsink that uses 4 tabs instead of two can be found. kinda annoying, since the seller will only pay RMA shipping one way.
My server
Next time, get a REAL computer and pack it properly.
"As for insurance, it was not available to him as an option."
Sure it was, just not with UPS. You've got to choose your shipper based on your needs: UPS for books and clothes, someone else for international stuff that might break.
"Lastly, the packing WAS inspected by UPS before he shipped, and UPS accepted the packing."
Why wouldn't UPS accept the packaging? UPS's decision on whether or not to accept a package is based on whether it could burst or otherwise affect other packages or their own shipping environments. They don't give a damn about what goes on inside your box. As you've noted, UPS accepts no liability. You've really got to think for (and look out for) yourself.
My point is that even with the damage I saw on those boxes, if they were shipped using the same protections that manufacturers use when they ship CPUs and monitors, they probably would have been okay. they certainly would have had less damage than this poor guy experienced.
I suppose it's this insight that got me modded up to 5. If you've got a problem with it, blame the moderators, but don't cuss me out for moderation done to my words, buddy.
Kevin Fox
So why is it that you can't find a reputable shipping company, that actually takes pride in taking care of your computer hardware?
The day Microsoft creates a product that doesn't suck, it will be known as the Microsoft Vaccuum Cleaner!
Why not have the employees be responsible for damage? If the shipment becomes damaged, costs should be deducted from the paychecks of every employee who handled that package. Tracking devices already make that possible (some what).
This way, all employees of UPS and/or FedEx (or any other shipping company), would be really careful when they realize that their salary could easily be decreased.
I had a friend work for FedEx one time (she was manager at one of the satelite stations), and she said, she would never ship anything valuable with her own company.
The day Microsoft creates a product that doesn't suck, it will be known as the Microsoft Vaccuum Cleaner!
I work at UPS, and my comments are only partly relevant to this event because I have essentially no contact with UPS Ground shipments. I work at one of the export hubs, so my work involves international shipments going Next-Day Air or 2nd Day Air. Packages commonly get dropped a foot or two, as well as slid long distances (20 feet or more) across a concrete floor, so I would definitely say you need to buy good quality boxes that are well-taped on the outside and VERY well packed on the inside. In the part of the operation I have contact with, it's really unthinkable that anyone would maliciously handle a package, especially if it were marked "fragile." That mindset just doesn't prevail. However, when you pack your shipment, you should be picturing employees who believe speed is more important than carefulness - sliding packages 20 feet across a concrete floor is a perfect example of this (and I have to admit that those people who have mastered the technique are using it very effectively). Clearly some of the mishandling can be attributed to laziness, as well. All package handlers are unionized (caveat: I sometimes handle packages to an extent, and I don't belong to a union) so they tend not to be very accountable.
Most of the screw-ups I encounter have to do with the complications in clearing customs with international shipments. One of the things I've learned from it is that *some* of the UPS hubs do a disgustingly bad job of this, and other hubs (probably including my own) are reasonably conscientious. It's probably the same way when it comes to package handling. Some hubs are very disciplined, some just suck. At the hub I work at, theft is nearly unheard-of: I've heard of one instance, second-hand, which happened years ago. It's an issue that's taken very seriously. On the other hand, it's clear from other posts that some hubs don't have their act together at all.
I would also like to register my agreement with the comments that a package will fare better if it spends as few days as possible in transit. Boxes that sit around for a while have a tendency to end up in bad shape. At a bare minimum, they will get terribly dirty after a few days in a warehouse. This is why those of you who are sending shipments out of the country should make my job easier by knowing what you're doing, and filling out your invoice properly, and writing clear contact information on every box you send in case something goes wrong. But 90% of the packages I see miss their flight are UPS's fault: not because they were processed incorrectly at the hub I work at, but usually because of screw-ups at the air hub they were at first.
If you find that every package you send/receive through UPS is mishandled, I'd bet it's because the nearest hub to you is a shitty one. It's as simple as that. On the other hand, if you're used to getting good results along a certain route, congratulations - you live near a hub that's actually run well. The amount of inconsistency between the different facilities is really amazing. Equally amazing is how little accountability the shitty hubs have for their overall incompetence, poor training, and lack of adequate management and supervision. I have long been of the opinion that some of the hubs need to be cleared out with mass firings... ah, how I hunger to see that - it would actualy make my job a lot easier. But it won't happen.
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That actually happens alot when they ship with the heatsink attached. I don't know what kind of heatsink they used, but some of the newer (larger/heavier) heatsinks will break the tabs off it the case is dropped. Who did they ship it by? I always insure my cpu's when I ship them. Believe it or not, I've had the best luck shipping computers through the USPS via Priority Shipping than I have had with either UPS or FEDEX. REMEMBER the INSURANCE! Cheap compared to having to replace a whole CPU.
I recent;y had the same situation...go straight to the President and you will get action. (at least it worked for me) The President's name is Scott Corgan ( located in TOronto) Good luck!