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Enterprise Linux: Are We There Yet?

Simon Crosby writes " Network Computing is running an special report on Linux in the enterprise. It evaluates strengths and weaknesses of Linux useage in the enterprise. It also discusses perceptions, roadblocks, security, clustering and other Linux enterprise issues."

169 comments

  1. Linux in the Enterprise... by nsample · · Score: 5, Funny


    ...will definitely give Picard an advantage over the Borg.

    1. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has Star Trek degraded to the point that they have Seven of Nine engaging in lewd sexual acts yet?

    2. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by Chatterton · · Score: 1

      Too bad, the Borgs have already assimilated Linux in his servers farms.

    3. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 4, Funny

      Linux is not ready for the Enterprise. There is not a single voice-controlled app for any of the mission-critical functions of the Enterprise. Conspicuously absent are warp core control, phaser bank activation, interstellar navigation, transporter operation and the all-important self destruct sequence. Until these and thousands of other important apps are written and deployed, Linux will just be a toy in the Enterprise.

    4. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by Myself · · Score: 2

      I wonder what Data runs?

    5. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WinCE. The hair gives it away.

    6. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by IpalindromeI · · Score: 3, Funny

      Conspicuously absent are [snip] and the all-important self destruct sequence.

      shutdown -h +10 Self destruction in ten minutes.

      --

      --
      Promoting critical thinking since 1994.
    7. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...won't succeed bc that turd-eater Stallman will run around at all companies that try to use linux, screeming about "It's GNU/Linux! It's GNU/Linux!!!" and violently assault anyone who tries to use anything which looks like software which doesen't comply to his fascist views of "freedom" until the employees and managers are so tired of this raging lunatic that they drop the matter all together and install CP/M (it's free, you know, like linux without the freaks) on all their computers.

    8. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by King+Of+Chat · · Score: 2

      ... and the computerised tailoring function so you can ...

      wait for it...

      Make it sew.

      --
      This sig made only from recycled ASCII
    9. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Data's operating system was Windows 2349;)
      Although it's probably just a clone of LCARS

    10. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by onion2k · · Score: 2

      The holodeck tuck shop I think..

    11. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by nomadic · · Score: 1

      Maybe we could get a GPLed app for blowing up the midshipman-of-the-week's console. Remember to make it explode when the ship sustains even minor damage...

    12. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not what they mean, you silly!

      They're obviously talking about the USS Enterprise (The aircraft carrier). And the answer is no, as it is not written in Ada :-)

    13. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by felicity · · Score: 1

      Don't blame Linux man ... Phasers, transporters, and the warp core are all proprietary pieces of hardware provided by Starfleet Inc, and they don't make drivers for Linux.

      However, I'm sure if you send a few samples to a kernel developer, they can get a driver submitted for 2.5. ;)

    14. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 Insightful - seriously. The biggest obstacle to adoption of Linux in the enterprise is the attitude of Linux users and people like Stallman. Go around laughing at win2k and you alienate IT staff while making yourself look stupid. Show how Linux can do the same or better for less money and you not only succeed, you're given a bonus for saving the company money.

      But which approach gets used? Well it's just so cool to sneer at Windows...

    15. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by DrCode · · Score: 2

      Don't be silly; those all connect via USB 3.0. So all we need is the one driver.

      But those cheap WinPhasers might be a problem.

    16. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by Reikk · · Score: 0

      Get a fucking life. There is more to life than Linux and star trek. Only on slashdot would a post that stupid get modded up.

      I can't believe people on slashdot are so lame.

    17. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by Random+Feature · · Score: 1

      Linux is already in the Enterprise, so is FreeBSD.

      As long you encase the OS in an appliance, most enterprise admins (who are often useless M$ bigots anyway) don't know it's even there - but it's running their load balancers and caches and content accelerators.

      Is it on the desktop? No, but how can you reasonably expect someone who has to be TRAINED how to use Outlook or Word to use Linux?

      --
      I don't have a solution, but I certainly admire the problem.
  2. Lack of Apps by Jeff+Kelly · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Are we there yet? certainly not. Linux has shown in the last few years that it is an alternative, although it still cannot compete in every Aspect with commercial Un*x Systems. (Especially Performance)

    The greatest drawback for using Linux in your Enterprise is not the Performance issue but lack of Applications. Many Porting efforts are still beta, (Or do you consider Oracle to be stable on Linux?) or simply not done.

    It is still difficult to convince the big software firms to actually consider Linux as an alternative, especially in the Enterprise computing field.

    There has still much lobbying to be done.

    Jeff

    1. Re:Lack of Apps by Chatterton · · Score: 1

      I think that before doing some lobbying, we need to continue to develop and change all of thoses Beta in stable V1.0. Then some lobbying could be done. Don't put the car before the horses...

    2. Re:Lack of Apps by ppetru · · Score: 5, Informative

      While it's true that not all the un*x-based apps have been ported, most of them are there. Examples:

      • Oracle -- which is rock solid, and you can get support contracts from Oracle for the Linux platform (the company I work for uses Oracle/Linux in a mission critical environment and it works just fine).
      • All the other big databases (IBM DB2, Clustra, Informix, Sybase, etc)
      • Lots and lots of movie and animation production tools (Maya, Entropy, etc). Linux is really popular now amongst graphics and movie professionals.

      The list could go on, but you get my point. What's more important are the advantages of Linux: superb development tools, open architecture, world-wide support, and so on.

      On the performance front, it seems that you're not aware of the fact that Solaris (and other unices) scale up so well to high-end boxes at the expense of low-end performance. In case you didn't know it, the Linux kernel smokes away Solaris (in terms of syscall latency, throughput, response time, network performance and a couple other points) on servers with up to 4-8 CPUs.

      --

      Petru
    3. Re:Lack of Apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think what Linux needs is More use of Initial Capital Letters. Initial Capital Letters are what an Operating System Really Needs.

    4. Re:Lack of Apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll have to second this. We use linux on our servers, and we've found that many products either don't exist for linux, or are just starting to come out (read: not ready for primetime) .

      We use Informix as our database software (which was just bought by IBM) and discovered that linux users make up 2% of their user base... How much support do you honestly think we can get if we're only a tiny sliver of their total userbase?

      This is where linux needs to improve, but I think the best way to improve is just to get more installations out there so more companies write software for it.

    5. Re:Lack of Apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, there's a belief in some of the research community that traditional systems like Solaris don't scale very well either up or down. Cellular IRIX is a response to this; it's basically a two-level operating system, where many things are handled at the local level instead of globally.

      The mere existence of global code paths and global data structures is a severe limitation on an OS. You can get something like Linux that runs very well on uniprocessors, and moderately well on small scale multiprocessors, but if you try to do better you have to fundamentally restructure the kernel to do well on large machines.

  3. Yes, No, Maybe by Blackneto · · Score: 0

    Server: Yes, Viable alternative in many situations
    Workstation: Yes in some places, No in others.

    As with anything it's the needs of the situation that determine the usefulness.
    In a business enviroment you have different needs than in a hobbiyist enviroment.
    I have installed Linux boxes to provide specific services for customers. But when it came down to thier vendor provided software they had no choice, but to go with Novell, NT, SCO or whatever.
    At home I can run what I want and serve my own needs as far as the OS's I use.
    The fact that now you CAN do many things for a workstation with linux just pushes it a little further.

    -

    --
    Ursula Andress, Catherine Deneuve, and Charo, twice...
  4. In certain areas... by alfredw · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I would go so far as to say that Linux is now the choice solution for enterprise web servers - Apache is all its glory, etc.

    Doubly so, given IIS's press lately.

    --
    In Soviet Russia, sig types you!
    1. Re:In certain areas... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Webservers have nothing to do with Enterprise. Even prefixing webserver with the word "Enterprise" doesn't do it.

      Enterprise is about transaction processing -- basically money.

      More info here: ftp.CLUE.org/a.tar.gz

    2. Re:In certain areas... by Bobo_the_Chimp · · Score: 1

      > NO NO NO, it's not.
      > Linux is fucking POO.

      It's refreshing to see such a logical,
      well thought out argument! Kudos for
      your finely honed debating skills.

      > FreeBSD should be the only choice for a web server
      > running Apache.

      You're right. People have way too many choices,
      and choices are bad. In fact, M$ Windows should
      be the only choice for a desktop. And the state
      should only manufacture one model of car.

      Get a grip, AC.

      > You people make me sick.

      A happy side effect.

    3. Re:In certain areas... by jslag · · Score: 1
      I would go so far as to say that Linux is now the choice solution for enterprise web servers


      *COUGH*
      bsd
      *COUGH*

    4. Re:In certain areas... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody wants anything even remotely associated with berkeley now that they have revealed themselves to be a pack of flag-banning traitors. Sad but true!

  5. Are we there? Will anyone ever be there? by green+pizza · · Score: 2, Redundant

    Linux is as ready for the enterprise as any other offering (including those already considered to be enterprise platforms). Work with OS/400 or even a commerical Unix for awhile and you'll soon find out that most of Enterpriseness is political. (Some is also legal... if you run into a snafu with kernel 2.6.1, who can you sue??).

    Having worked with a large number of platforms, I can confidently say that Linux is up there with the best of them. It's not a leader in all niches (such as home computing or workstation graphics) but it's more than enough for almost all server, developer workstation, and terminal areas. In fact, I will go as far as saying that I would fully trust kernel 2.4.16 + ext3fs for almost any task with in reason.

    Linux is at the point where the limiting factor is end user software, not the OS or its libraries. It is time to deploy linux far and wide. Linux will never be the perfect OS... no OS will ever be. It is time to deploy linux.

    1. Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be there? by Ami+Ganguli · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'd mostly agree, except I'd exclude some high-end hardware. It'll take another couple of years before you're running Linux happily on a 64 CPU box.

      But if you're comfortable running NT or SCO in your enterprise, then Linux should be no problem. I'd even go so far as to say that Linux has always been more enterprise-ready than NT. The first version of NT that was reasonably stable was Windows 2000. Linux was solid much sooner.

      --
      It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
    2. Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be there? by Blackneto · · Score: 0

      Damn, you nailed it!

      Politics! thats what determines what gets into a corporation. The company I work for is deep in HP's pocket, therefore 95% of the intel boxes we have are HP (the rest are IBM thinkpads). We do have many of thier larger servers running HPUX and many IBM RS/6000 and other IBM boxes on the AIX platform.
      But it was a deep pocket political move that got all the HP intel machines in there.

      Good posting

      --
      Ursula Andress, Catherine Deneuve, and Charo, twice...
    3. Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be there? by stu_coates · · Score: 1

      if you run into a snafu with kernel 2.6.1, who can you sue??

      But can I sue Microsoft or Sun if I find a problem in their code? I would imagine (haven't checked) the license agreements give them a "get out of jail free" clause in the event of buggy code.

    4. Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be there? by fanatic · · Score: 4, Interesting

      (Some is also legal... if you run into a snafu with kernel 2.6.1, who can you sue??).

      You sound like you've got a good view of the issue, but this sentence cries for rebuttal. When, oh WHEN, will pople stop parroting this nonsense? Any CIO that uses this as an argument against OpenSource/Free software is a moron. I challenge anyone, anywhere, to give evidence that anyone has ever collected a single penny from suing a mass-market software maker for shoddy code. If MS didn't lose their shirt over putrid crap like win3.x or win9x, with it's dll-hell and semi-annnual re-install schedule, how can anyone get sued?

      --
      "that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
    5. Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be there? by Observer · · Score: 1
      I challenge anyone, anywhere, to give evidence that anyone has ever collected a single penny from suing a mass-market software maker for shoddy code.

      mass-market != enterprise

      Much of the work that goes into deploying enterprise-level solutions is concerned precisely with ensuring that there is accountability, so that when problems occur it is clear whose responsibility it is to resolve them, and how quickly.

      The "who can we sue" argument is nonsensical to the extent that if you get to that point, you're already bleeding resources or at worse going out of business. But it's a great comfort to know that if the project goes bad there'll be a way to muddy the waters about who was to blame for a bad choice at the initial planning stage.

    6. Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be there? by duffbeer703 · · Score: 2

      Linux is not enterprise-ready because it is an immature platform. Point kernel releases result in large changes to the operation of Linux.

      If linux is to be enterprise-ready, it needs to adhere to some standards like the IEEE POSIX or the Open Group's Unix spec.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    7. Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be there? by Salamander · · Score: 2
      Linux is as ready for the enterprise as any other offering (including those already considered to be enterprise platforms).

      Wrong. It's certainly making good progress, but it's still quite deficient in several important areas.:

      • Support for truly large block devices, or truly large numbers of devices, still lags behind most of the commercial UNIXes.
      • The SCSI stack is still a mess, lacking features, robust error handling, and overall coherency. FC drivers aren't in great shape either.
      • The journaling filesystems available for Linux are still relatively immature.
      • The VM system is effectively only a couple of months old. We don't really know how it will perform on many types of systems, except that it will be *horrible* on NUMA machines.
      • Linux's error logging and general RAS functionality is still nothing like what's provided by the commercial UNIXes.
      • High-availability clustering does exist for Linux, but at a level roughly equivalent to what AIX had in '95 and most others by '98 or so.

      That's far from an exhaustive list, of course. As I said, it's making good progress, and if you're comparing it to any flavor of Windows then it looks pretty good. In the real world of the enterprise, though, it's just not there yet.

      --
      Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
    8. Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be there? by mark_lybarger · · Score: 1

      a linux point release would compare to what, a m$ patch? or maybe increment version (win98 - win98se?). in any case, it's quite probable that the patch/upgrade results in large changes in operation of the kernel (i recall NT4 sp1 -x having LOTS of strange incompatibility issues. software would work with NT4sp2 and only that). was there something other than the kernel Vm that was a drastic change? did this change impact binary compatibility with applications?

      i agree that linux is probably less standards compliant then other flavors, but i guess you'll get that in a truly open market. it's not that linux isn't working to be standards compliant, no one's coughing up the dough explicitly for it right now thats all.

    9. Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be there? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any CIO that uses this as an argument against OpenSource/Free software is a moron.

      There are some that aren't morons? I thought it was a job requirement.

    10. Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be there? by Arandir · · Score: 1

      Work with OS/400 or even a commerical Unix for awhile and you'll soon find out that most of Enterpriseness is political.

      "Enterprise" is different than the "corporate desktop". Politics is primarily to blame for keeping Linux off the corporate desktop. But it has little to do with it not being Enterprise Ready.

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    11. Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be there? by Explo · · Score: 1

      (Some is also legal... if you run into a snafu with kernel 2.6.1, who can you sue??).


      If this happens at the moment, either the person who sold you a time machine or your local crack dealer whose stuff gave you a set of bad hallusinations :P

      --
      Everyone who makes generalizations should be shot.
  6. It depends on the enterprise they're talking about by ksheka · · Score: 1

    Is this TOS, TNG, or ENT? I think Linux could make a lot of headway in ENT or even TOS. It's got years before it can compete with the system in _The Next Generation_.

    --
    alias uptime="echo '5:33pm up 22342352324 days, 6:28, 2124315623 users, load average: 2432.40, 12312.31, 123123.19'"
  7. A beo... by leuk_he · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    This was a usefule article. I now know i have to write:

    "image a Scyld Beowulf cluster of these." Whenever they release a new device that can run linux.

  8. marketing by kraada · · Score: 2, Interesting

    my thought is that linux will eventually pick up, but it's going to take a while. Why? Linux works great and people will eventually realize that, but there really isn't much marketing as far as I can tell. IBM with it's Peace Love and Linux campaign has probably done a lot, but compared to MS . . .
    *shrug*
    Once linux's PR is going well, poor MS will probably be in for the fight of it's life . . .

    1. Re:marketing by iBod · · Score: 2, Informative
      IBM with it's Peace Love and Linux campaign has probably done a lot,

      Probably done more harm than good.

      See... San Francisco takes IBM to the cleaners

      I don't think IBM are the marketing geniuses they once were!

    2. Re:marketing by IpalindromeI · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think one of the best parts of Linux's "PR" is that it really comes from its users. Other than IBM and, to some small extent RedHat, there isn't anyone really doing PR. Except the users. They are the ones going out to their bosses and saying, "Hey, I've used this for a long time and I know it can meet the needs." You can't get that kind of assurance from a commercial. Sure you might have PR reps from companies like Microsoft or HP coming around and giving you their salesman pitch, but who would trust more: a guy that shows up at your door and gets paid on commission, or the guy in your systems department that's been keeping everything going for five years? The Linux user base is really growing, and it's the kind of growth that feeds off itself, expanding more into new places. I think in time we'll see more people moving to Linux for enterprise partly because of this.

      --

      --
      Promoting critical thinking since 1994.
    3. Re:marketing by SurfsUp · · Score: 2

      I don't think IBM are the marketing geniuses they once were!

      You're sure about that? Consider that the preaching was aimed more at the choir than anyone else. Effective? Youbetcha. IBM with attitude, rock on, big blue boy!

      (Hey, did anyone see Osmosis Joe? Remember the scene where Drixenol gets in on in the gangsta club?)

      Don't worry, IBM has their own way of targetting the buttondown IT crowd, and it doesn't revolve around stenciling sidewalks with indelible penguin images. As for the great mass of frontline desktop users, well for the moment it's strictly guerilla warfare there. Emphasis on the 'for the moment'.

      --
      Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
    4. Re:marketing by odaiwai · · Score: 2

      >Don't worry, IBM has their own way of targetting
      >the buttondown IT crowd, and it doesn't revolve
      >around stenciling sidewalks with indelible
      >penguin images. As for the great mass of
      >frontline desktop users, well for the moment
      >it's strictly guerilla warfare there. Emphasis
      >on the 'for the moment'.

      Well, the button down IT crowd now were hippy kids thirty plus years ago. IBM are just playing on their nostalgia. It's a case of "Remember those ideals you had when you went to Woodstock? Linux is about that!"

      dave

  9. Linux on Alpha Time is Now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With the 64bit offerings outa the Intel ballpark, costing considerably more than Alpha chips, maybe for less than the price of One 64bit Intel cpu i can get a dual Alpha workstation?

    1. Re:Linux on Alpha Time is Now? by t00tie · · Score: 1
      The future of Alpha is dubious at best. For linux to win in the enterprise software support is a must. That means open AND closed source software. And surprise surprise - it will run on linux on intel first and foremost. No in-it-for-the-money ISV will port something that runs on linux/intel to linux/insert-esoteric-hardware-here unless there's a sound business case for it. It's hard enough getting them to support linux/intel - forget the other stuff (for now at least)!

      This argument also applies to linux on mainframes (yes I've tried it, yes I hung it som the VM had to be restarted, yes I love linux, yes I hate mainframes).

      --
      I asked my closed-source vendor about ubiqitous computing.
      He answered "Oh no! You-not-be-quit-us!"
  10. Linux is a minor brand name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The best thing that could have happened to Linux in order to get it accepted at enterprise level would have been for IBM to release it`s own distro. - I know they are investing huge amounts of money in this area but to put it bluntly - "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM!".

  11. MS Word by magi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think MS Word interoperability is perhaps the single most important barrier limiting companies from changing to Linux. Other Office products such as MS Excel and MS Powerpoint are also important.

    You should remember that it's not just necessary to have some semi-lousy import filters to Linux word-processors, but also have 100% compatible export filters. It's practically impossible to make a transition in any company that has to communicate with an existing MS Word user base. And that is the case for almost any companies and public administration.

    And 99% doesn't do, it must be 100.000%. If there are even small incompatibilities, you have to use genuine MS Word -> MS Windows.

    StarOffice 6.0 beta (same as OpenOffice build 638c) has some compatibility in basic formatting. The older StarOffice 5.2 has, in my experience, much better MS Word compatibility, but it also breaks up quite quickly. However, its Excel compatibility is worse than with SO6.0b/OO638c.

    KOffice (1.1) is not even worth mentioning with regard to MS Office compatibility. Its Word import filter simply strips all formatting, and it doesn't have an export filter.

    I work in an IT company, doing purely Linux work, but have to do all documentation, communication, and administrative tasks with MS Office. I was able to use StarOffice 5.2 for a while in some tasks, but can't rely on it completely. The situation really sucks.

    1. Re:MS Word by staeci · · Score: 2, Insightful

      in other words no office suite will ever be good enough because it is not word.

      As far as sending windows people documents I print from kword to PDF. When people send me .docs I usually reply that I can't read it and give a couple of tips on save as etc.

      For a small business you probably want to keep a windows PC around for file-conversion. Big businesses, government organisations - use the clout that you have.

      I'm sure that if marketing@ibm.com tells joe@smallbiz.com to not send a word.doc Joe might learn how to save as.

      Are there any PDF export methods for word not including adobes expensive suite.

      --
      'Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson...'
    2. Re:MS Word by staeci · · Score: 1

      or maybe companies should just be putting pressure on MS to port it. I mean they have done Office for OSX.

      --
      'Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson...'
    3. Re:MS Word by BitwizeGHC · · Score: 2

      in other words no office suite will ever be good enough because it is not word.


      That's it, in a nutshell. The world has standardized on Microsoft Word for the exchange of enriched textual information. In a business environment, "I can't read this" is often invalid. You MUST be able to read and write .doc files in order to communicate.

      Until business realizes the value in open standard formats like PDF or hell, even ASCII text, Microsoft Word will be king on the desktop.
      --
      N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
    4. Re:MS Word by Mathetes · · Score: 1

      You realize by saying this you are saying that it will be impossible for anyone but Microsoft to own the corporate desktop? I would think, just as companies changed from Wordperfect and Wordstar before that, moving from Word to something more open, like OpenOffice and its XML file formats would be a very wise move. There are ways around compatibility issues during the migration process. I refuse to believe we are stuck on Microsoft Word for all eternity just because it is the most prevalent format right now!

    5. Re:MS Word by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I'm sure that if marketing@ibm.com tells joe@smallbiz.com to not send a word.doc Joe might learn how to save as."

      On IBM's careers website you have to submit your CV as either RTF or plain TXT, .doc is NOT allowed :-)

    6. Re:MS Word by joeytsai · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is true, but unfortunately, this is very, very, very hard. Speaking as someone who's worked in the filters area of a major company's word processor (think what used to be Word's competition back in the day) filters are horribly complex and making a quality filter is just grueling... and we're not even talking about a "100%" one.

      In fact, even Microsoft's filters aren't very good. Naturally, most people don't even notice it because .doc has become the de facto standard.

      And this is where the situation is bad: if filters aren't that great in commercial word processors, with full time paid programmers, they will be long coming in Linux. Let's be honest, people working on projects for fun will probably have the itch to do something much more interesting and noticable.

      But you're right, .doc is the standard on the vast majority of computers today, so have great import filters is needed. However, I think it would be a better idea for the focus of the different Office suites to be a common file format. All the groups - Gnome, KDE, OpenOffice, should really decide on a XML based format and work together on the .doc import.

      How are we going to compete with the Windows world, which has one common file format (albeit terrible) when our own different office suites each have their own file format (which will naturally mean even more filters)?

      --
      http://www.talknerdy.org
    7. Re:MS Word by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does MS Word with Wine?

    8. Re:MS Word by Jens · · Score: 2
      If you want 100% compatability, you have not only to emulate all features of Word, you have to emulate all bugs of Word, too. And it doesn't stop there. You have to emulate the whole Win32, OLE, DDE, and so on APIs because Word uses that stuff to do embedding objects in another.

      In short, once you have done all this, you have Word. It is identical in behaviour and file formats in every way - so it is the original. And where are you then? Being sued by Microsoft under the DMCA for sure. (You cracked the 'encryption' of the MS Word format and used a 'circumvention device' (Staroffice for example) to get at the copyrighted data.)

      Solution: Don't use those formats. It's that simple. Default to something else - XML, RTF, HTML, whatever.

      You will never be the first by imitation.

    9. Re:MS Word by yamla · · Score: 2

      Your point is generally good, taht even OpenOffice/StarOffice isn't 100%. However, I'd have to debate with you that 99% (or whatever value slightly below 100%) is not sufficient. After all, is Microsoft Word itself 100% compatible? Certainly not in my experience. Try importing a Windows .doc file into Word for the Mac. Or the other way around. Or go from one version of Word-for-Windows to another. It is good but not perfect (actually, Word-for-Mac, last time I tried, wasn't even good).

      I use both MS Word and OpenOffice here at my work. Both are good enough for almost everything that I do (OpenOffice is better for some, MS Word for others). At home, I just use OpenOffice because MS Word does _not_ fulfill my needs there.

      --

      Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
    10. Re:MS Word by steveha · · Score: 2

      And 99% doesn't do, it must be 100.000%. If there are even small incompatibilities, you have to use genuine MS Word -> MS Windows.

      But luckily it's not 100% of all Word features, it's just 100% of the features the customers actually use. And even there 99% might be enough if the last 1% degrades gracefully.

      P.S. The current economic climate is actually helping the competition to Word. When companies feel rich, they just throw money at Microsoft until they have enough copies of Word for all their employees; right now, a few companies are giving Star Office to people with minimal Word needs, and only giving Word to the people who need the full feature set. Belt-tightening in IT means the IT guys are more willing to settle for less than 100.00% Word compatibility.

      steveha

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
  12. We may not be enterprise, but... by omega9 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It has been, and will continue to be right for us:

    I am one of two people who run the MIS office at a small technical college. We support everything that plugs into the wall for ~500 staff, faculty, and students. We're not huge, but we keep busy :) We run a Windows 2000 Adv. Server domain that seems to run well for the most part but acts... haunted, as if it's just scared to run stable all the time.

    Recently we decided to replace an old outdated MS-Proxy server (don't yell, I know) with a Squid server. Not because squid is more stable, but it was damn near impossible to monitor MS-Proxy cheaply and effectively. We farmed around for sollutions but they were all over $1,500 for anything decent. Any of you familiar with Squid can finish this story yourself. For the others, now we can monitor at any depth all we want for $free (and of course it's more stable).

    Last night I sat that same server up with MRTG to monitor all of our switches and the network interfaces on all the servers in our farm. Oh, and it's also a syslog server, watching over the the network printers and the server farm itself ( we have Event Viewer in Win2k setup to dump to a CSV file and then push it to syslog). It's also a planned backup www/ftp server and what-ever-else-is-needed server.

    Proxy, MRTG, better monitoring then Event Viewer, syslog, www/ftp: all on one box, at zero software cost. Since it's Linux I know I can trust it to keep up. And I'm not saying that because I'm wearing my shebang(#!) hat and my tux hoodie, I'm talking from experience. You can't beat it.

    That's why Linux is here for us now, and it's because of those qualities that Linux will continue to grow with us in the future.

    --
    I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.
    1. Re:We may not be enterprise, but... by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2
      Proxy, MRTG, better monitoring then Event Viewer, syslog, www/ftp: all on one box, at zero software cost. Since it's Linux I know I can trust it to keep up.
      So, in other words, as soon as a piece of hardware fails, half of your MIS structure falls over dead. Great.
      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    2. Re:We may not be enterprise, but... by baptiste · · Score: 1
      We run a Windows 2000 Adv. Server domain that seems to run well for the most part but acts... haunted, as if it's just scared to run stable all the time.

      ROFLMAO! Best description of Windows servers I've ever seen acting ... haunted :)

    3. Re:We may not be enterprise, but... by omega9 · · Score: 1

      The size of our opperation doesn't really permit us to have redundant backups of every service we provide. For instance: We only have one Exchange 2000 server. If that were to go down we'd lose email services untill we could restore from backups. In fact, backups are what we rely on, and backups are what protect my Linux proxy/MRTG/syslog beast. If any of our machines go down we sweat it for a day while we restore and we're back in business.

      half of your MIS structure falls over dead

      BTW, I wouldn't even come close to calling that half of our structure. Remember, we've got our domain controllers, email server, file server and www/ftp server to watch as well. Those rowdy kids are the bulk of our structure.

      P.S. - I'v got a 3COM 1100 24 port switch that one of our interns blocked admin access to (he messed the ACLs up). Can anyone clue me in on how to perform a 'hard-reset' on these?

      --
      I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.
    4. Re:We may not be enterprise, but... by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2

      Ok. As long as you've thought about it, and obviously you have, and as long as you have a disaster preparedness plan, which in your case seems to be 'suffer' then I have absolutely no beef. :-)

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  13. The definition of 'Enterprise' by Binary+Tree · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Somebody please define it, in the context of software. What makes linux any less "Enterprise-ready" than NT, AIX, Solaris, etc?

    Does it even have a real definition, or is it just nonsense like the term "supercomputer"?

    1. Re:The definition of 'Enterprise' by ZeekWatson · · Score: 1
      Somebody please define it, in the context of software. What makes linux any less "Enterprise-ready" than NT, AIX, Solaris, etc?


      Answer: Kernel 2.4.15.

      Yes yes, I know about testing and not deploying new software in mission critical apps, but look at the truth. This was a "STABLE" release of the Kernel that went out with "Junior Woodstock" type bugs. Not Enterprise worthy at all.
    2. Re:The definition of 'Enterprise' by smoon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Enterprise" has two components, first is the relatively straightforward "Core Application" of a company, which might be some sort of ERP system like PeopleSoft, or some other commercial produce. For many companies, this will be an amalgamation of custom programs written over many years. These applications are typically based on some form of transaction processing system (e.g. CICS on the Mainframe, Tuxedo on Unix, or even database-driven transactions ala Oracle, DB2, etc.)

      The second, and more critical part of 'Enterprise' is the nature of the computing service. Generally any outage is measured in dollars per minute or hour. It's not unusual for a large company to face severe monetary losses for even slight outages. Think millions of dollars an hour (or even per minute). This measure tends to be a little slippery, but with some analysis a pretty solid figure can usually be determined.

      For some enterprises, Linux might make complete sense (e.g. Google). For others, the potential of saving a few thousand or hundred thousand in licensing costs pales in comparison to the probable re-training, new hardware, and "potential" instability of moving to Linux. If you've got something that works, why fix it?

      Given the above, even if all of the big 'Enterprise' vendors port their software to Linux, you're not done. Linux clustering in a business context such as Solaris, AIX, and (in the good old days) VMS provide would be one stumbling block. The lack of high-end hardware is another -- and yes I know that Linux runs on anything from a PC to a SPARC server to a S/390 mainframe. In reality, you're unlikely to drop $2million on a big Sun box then load Linux -- you'll want to take advantage of Solaris's dynamic partitioning and other proprietary hooks.

      Loading Linux on diverse old hardware makes business sense -- turn that old Sun box into something useful. It doesn't make nearly as much business sense when buying a new non-intel server, since the license fee of the OS (if any) is negligable compared to the overall value of the system in the 'Enterprise'.

      Over time this is likely to change, since Linux represents a constantly improving and freely available system, vendors will start adopting it as 'their' OS. IBM is an early starter here, but the process will take time. And like a battle of attrition Linux has the advantage over time, since it is constantly improving (for free), while commercial vendors have to dump $millions into R&D to bring out each new version of their OS.

      --
      "But actually trying to use m4 as a general-purpose langage would be deeply perverse" --ESR
    3. Re:The definition of 'Enterprise' by case_igl · · Score: 1

      Excellent post! Please mod it up so others can read it as well.

    4. Re:The definition of 'Enterprise' by odaiwai · · Score: 2

      Why are you not running it with 'out of the box' kernels? Given the recent appalling state of the supposedly stable tree, you're nuts to even consider changing it. Hell, I'd be more inclined to install RH 7.1 or even go back to one of the 6.2 CDs with the 2.2 kernel.

      dave

    5. Re:The definition of 'Enterprise' by Delphis · · Score: 1

      Stick with Debian :)

      RedHat is far too finicky about changing everything for the latest 'bells and whistles' to be considered completely STABLE for anything IMHO.

      --
      Delphis
    6. Re:The definition of 'Enterprise' by dmelomed · · Score: 1

      Couldn't hold back your distribution zealotry, eh? Choose the right tool for the job.

      When a big boss makes a decision what distribution or *nix vendor to go with, he'll look at support options first.

    7. Re:The definition of 'Enterprise' by Arandir · · Score: 2

      No, the boss will look at reputation first. Redhat has a reputation for shipping bleeding/untested software. Like all reputations it ain't 100% accurate but has some basis in fact.

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    8. Re:The definition of 'Enterprise' by dmelomed · · Score: 1

      That's probably exactly what the big boss doesn't know, since he's a PHB, and not a techie. What he does know, is it's the most supported distribution. It's definitely the distribution he'll pick to run his DB on.

  14. hmmmmmm... by staeci · · Score: 1

    largo

    --
    'Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson...'
    1. Re:hmmmmmm... by staeci · · Score: 1

      I should really use the preview button, that comment was supposed to have cough tags

      --
      'Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson...'
    2. Re:hmmmmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No! Say it isn't so! Linux on Space City! Used by the Terra Nostra!

  15. "who do you sue?" by kevin+lyda · · Score: 5, Insightful

    could this question please die? considering the realities behind shrinkwrap licenses and ever dedicated support contracts, you can't sue anyone. and even if you could - how can you hope to win? the us gov't sued microsoft and look at how victorious it was?

    a better question is: if things go wrong with widget x, what are my options to get it fixed? with closed s/w, the only option is the vendor you got it from (and really, knowing that, do you want to sue them?). with free software you can use your vendor, another vendor, your own staff, or private contractors (and knowing that, you could feel free to sue your vendor; assuming they failed to live up to their support contract).
    note: i'm assuming in an enterprise situation you'd have some sort of support contract with ibm, redhat, microsoft, suse, sun, linuxcare, apple, etc.

    --
    US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
    1. Re:"who do you sue?" by fanatic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      a better question is: if things go wrong with widget x, what are my options to get it fixed? with closed s/w, the only option is the vendor you got it from (and really, knowing that, do you want to sue them?). with free software you can use your vendor, another vendor, your own staff, or private contractors

      Someone, please, mod this up some more.

      --
      "that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
  16. Word for OSX... Anyone tried to run it on Linux ? by da5idnetlimit.com · · Score: 1

    'Caus taht could be the solution to pur problems.

    Just use Word for OSX on Linux...

    I bet you only have binaries, but possibly this could work on a Linux box ?
    Considering OSX is a "MacLinux" system...

    --
    It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
  17. old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    there was an article about this on Linux Enterprise

  18. rm -rf / by bobdown2001 · · Score: 1

    That's all the self destruct sequence I need ;0)

    --
    Why do today what you can put off until tomorrow?
  19. self destruct. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by leuk_he · · Score: 2

    shutdown -h +10 Self destruction in ten minutes

    unless you are running version 2.4.15 greased-turkey this self destruct will be solved when the backup-backup power comes back (at the cost of life support...).

    how about: picard:

    excute program "sleep 540;echo warn ^g warn;sleep 60;rm -rf / " authorisation root

  20. What about Internet Explorer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't really know if webapps development has anything to do with Enterprise, but certainly my company won't switch to Linux as long as we can't see the result of our work rendered by MSIE (which is used by 90% of our clients). So the question is if it possible to install and use MSIE >=4.x under WINE? And what about other alternatives?

    1. Re:What about Internet Explorer by knof · · Score: 1

      what about vmware ?

  21. Off-topic: Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be..? by fanatic · · Score: 2

    If MS didn't lose their shirt over putrid crap like win3.x or win9x

    And while I'm at it, how about a business app that caused measurable damage in the workplace: MS Word. I don't even want to think about how much time I've lost fighting that piece of shit because a file became unprintable after I inserted a graphic or because a line of '=' characters became some sort of non-deleteable meta-section break bullshit or because the formatting of one file was hopelessly and irreparably ruined because I had the temerity to copy and paste text from another file or....

    I've lost days of my life fighting the wierd horse-shit that just happens when you use MS shitware. (All of this would be fixable if they would just implement the "Reveal Codes" function that workdperfect has (had?) so you could get at the formatting codes, but it's clear they never will. 4 years after conversion to MS Word, my co-workers (who are not geeks) still long for wordperfect for this one feature alone.) This, along with their despicable business practices, is why I hate them and all their works.

    --
    "that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
  22. On-topic: Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be.? by fanatic · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    And how about windows NT? I installed the package that allows printing from NT to an IP printer. (I'd been doing this for years, but it magically stopped working. Wierd shit Just Happens in MS crapware...). After the mandatory reboot ("windows has detected a parameter change somewhere in known space. please reboot") NT automagically created a new profile for the same userID I ALWAYS login as. All attempts to switch back to re-using the previous profile (including those with the GUI tools) failed utterly to have any effect. Palm Pilot Desktop stopped working altogether and had to be re-installed. Ditto Notes (oh oh, there's another piece of hard-drive sewage, but that's another rant...). All other apps reverting to the revolting default behaviours (e.g. typeing "PCs" in MSWORD yields "Pcs" because some moronic asshole of a programmer thinks he knows what I want to type better than I do, and buried the nerd-knob that undoes this offensive behaviour behind seven layers of incomprehensible menus in 3 different places).

    Summary: Linux may not be ready for the enterprise, but NEITHER IS WINDOWS.

    --
    "that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
  23. Re:The list could go on .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny


    but doesn't.

  24. Re:It depends on the enterprise they're talking ab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you don't realize the os in tng is actually linux. Think about how far its progressed. They just forget to acknowledge it in the credits.

  25. Maybe it's ready for YOUR enterprise by Mr.+Foogle · · Score: 1

    but not mine. Not on the desktop, at least.

    NONE of the publishers of the CAD tools that we use (Cadence, Mentor) are porting to Linux. Mentor ported one of their product lines (not the one we use) and stopped, Cadence never tried, both cite a 'lack of customer demand'.

    When I pointed out to the AE that it's hard to have a demand for a product that doesn't exist, and that WE'D jump to it if offered, he just shrugged. Must be nice to publish a product that you just can't get anywhere else....

    --
    Display some adaptability.
    1. Re:Maybe it's ready for YOUR enterprise by Junks+Jerzey · · Score: 2

      NONE of the publishers of the CAD tools that we use (Cadence, Mentor) are porting to Linux. Mentor ported one of their product lines (not the one we use) and stopped, Cadence never tried, both cite a 'lack of customer demand'.

      Ditto for professional graphics tools such as Photoshop and Freehand. Please don't mention The Gimp. There was a beta of Corel Draw for a while, but no more.

    2. Re:Maybe it's ready for YOUR enterprise by DrCode · · Score: 2

      How about Synopsis? I interviewed there last year, and they seemed pretty enthused about Linux.

  26. Linux ready for the Enterprise? by HansMoser · · Score: 0

    Misposted to /. - should have been posted to C:\>

  27. Re:Off-topic: Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be by odaiwai · · Score: 3, Funny

    > And while I'm at it, how about a business app
    > that caused measurable damage in the workplace:
    > MS Word.

    And one that has caused even more: Outlook'

    How many enterprise wide virus scares have shut down communications? All thanks to Outlook and its "wide open and pre-lubricated" approach to security.

    dave

  28. Re:Word for OSX... Anyone tried to run it on Linux by odaiwai · · Score: 2

    Ummm, it's a MacBSD system yes?

    (Of course FreeBSD now comes with a 'compatibility layer' which is basically Red Hat Linux...)

    dave

  29. Those that can by pj7 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I work for a rather nice sized ISP in Michigan, and no it's not AOL. Every_single_server we have runs linux. We have one, count 'em one, NT server in the entire place that belongs to us and that is here only to give the owners son a job as an NT Admin, sad huh?
    For the last 3 or maybe longer years we have run Debian exclusively. Is Linux ready for the enterprise? Yes. Is Linux ready for every enterprise? No. But those of us who can, do.

  30. Linuxtoday Cracked yesterday by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yesterday LT was cracked. So I would have to say a qualified yes for enterprise. Linux is Ready, but perhaps not all the admins are.

  31. Picard is dead, only locutus lives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That can be the only explanation for stewart haming it up at M$ releases.
    "Resisistence is Futile."

  32. "could this question please die?" by dpilot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, because the question itself is wrong, and is really a red herring.

    It isn't "Who do you sue?" because instead it's really "Who can I blame and send the heat somewhere besides me?" The IT management structure will take heat for any service problems, but with a Microsoft solution they have the perfect blame target. Between "Everybody uses Microsoft," which absolves blame for having chosen them, and the fact that Microsoft is essentially lawsuit-proof, between their EULA and size/tactics, things are nicely diffused. Doesn't keep the systems up an running, but at least you're suffering in the same boat with everyone else, and there's the general, "Nothing can be done any better," to protect you.

    Contrast that with Linux and outsourced support. First off, you've chosen something different, and hence inherently risky. Second, your outsourced support is probably less lawsuit-proof, and therefore maybe something might actually have to be done, rather than sighing in resignation.

    Also contrast with Linux and internal support. Now you're to your own resources, and directly and immediately responsible for anything that goes wrong.

    Note that NONE of this says a single thing about service levels, outages, or whatever. It's merely about adequate 'diffusion or responsibility' to keep the IT peoples' jobs protected. Microsoft provides a great 'responsibility diffusion sink,' one of the best at that.

    --
    The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    1. Re:"could this question please die?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn, Didn't think of that.

      You B***ard!!

    2. Re:"could this question please die?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that was incredibly perceptive - you should mod this all the way up

    3. Re:"could this question please die?" by warpeightbot · · Score: 2
      Also contrast with Linux and internal support. Now you're to your own resources, and directly and immediately responsible for anything that goes wrong.
      Tell that to IBM. Actually, tell that to Red Hat, who's actually going to be doing the support (watch that stock price go!)...
      Note that NONE of this says a single thing about service levels, outages, or whatever. It's merely about adequate 'diffusion or responsibility' to keep the IT peoples' jobs protected. Microsoft provides a great 'responsibility diffusion sink,' one of the best at that.
      Yes, but the whole POINT of Linux is taking responsibility for the quality of service and making excellence instead of paying thru the nose for mediocrity. Part of what's wrong with America, yea verily most of the world, is that nobody wants to take responsibility for what's going on, and the world suffers.

      Fine. Y'all go ahead and suffer. I'm going to keep right on downloading the best software in the world and I'm going to take all that money I would have paid You Know Who for it and buy She Who Is Secretly An Ubergeek a nice anniversary present and we'll be very happy, thank you bloody much... meanwhile I'm just going to rub some more Corn Husker's into my calluses and start building that buttload of Linux boxes we just got orders for.

      Yeah, we're There Yet.

    4. Re:"could this question please die?" by sparkz · · Score: 1

      Sure, but if I buy a pair of E4500's from Sun, with A5200 storage, SunCluster, and Veritas Volume Manager, get Sun to install it, with HA-Oracle, then I'm a happy bunny.

      Why?

      If Oracle goes wrong, I *can* sue them. They guarantee that whatever happens to the system, the database will NOT be corrupted. If it is, I can sue their ass off. To date, nobody has.

      If a disk dies, no problem, since the Cluster requires that disks are mirrored. If a CPU dies, no problem, since the Cluster fails the service to the other node. This is all in the contract.

      Sure, if a severe (eg, Server loses power) problem occurs, there will be a time delay until the software is started on the second node, but that is documented, along with all risks involved, before I sign off acceptance of the Cluster.

      If it goes wrong, I am free to beat the crap out of Sun. And if it's in the press, all I have to say, is that "I trusted Sun to provide this; they have failed; Sun are bad". If I made the same statement about a Linux system, I'd be packing up the contents of my desk the same day.

      --
      Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
  33. Uhhh - swap storms and umount corruption... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Enterprise Linux: Are We There Yet?

    This is a joke, right? Operating systems (OS/390, VMS, HP-UX, Solaris) that are used to host mission criticial applications (think: the computer that monitors a nuclear missile silo in Nebraska, or the mainframe that holds all the laboratory data at a mega hospital in Boston) DO NOT SHIP WITH KERNELS THAT INDUCE SWAP STORMS OR UMOUNTS THAT KILL THE FILE SYSTEM!!!

    Be for real.

    1. Re:Uhhh - swap storms and umount corruption... by FatherOfONe · · Score: 1

      Yeah and don't ship a product that causes me to spend all weekend capturing data to send to IBM to look at... (OS/390 patches).

      Yeah, and don't cause me look ALL over your web site for 8 or 9 patches just to get Oracle to be stable on my server (Solaris).

      Yeah, and don't force me to try and run applications in ring 3 just to debug Abends (Novell)

      Yeah and don't force me to call you to get some undocumented patch that is called a "hot fix" even though I am only running YOUR software on the machine... (Microsoft)

      Hmmm seems like no operating system is ready for prime time to me.

      I have ran all of the above and they all have their issues. I now run Red Hat Linux 7.1. It runs well for what we do. Do I upgrade to the latest kernel every time? NO! Do I test new kernels? Yes.

      For us it comes down to money.

      Solaris - Intel version sucks, Sun hardware is expensive and propritary.

      Novell - NDS is awesome, but way to expensive. The Novell kernel sucks to run apps. Oracle is dropping them.

      Windows 2k - Security is bad, expensive, and vendor tries everything to lock you in to their product. Who wants to be FORCED to upgrade every three years?

      IBM - Way too proprietary and expensive

      Apple - Version 10.x looks good, but has same issues as Sun.

      Steve Michael

      --
      The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
    2. Re:Uhhh - swap storms and umount corruption... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with everything you've said. Still, the point stands: Enterprise operating systems - i.e. operating systems designed, marketed, and sold to host mission critical apps - do NOT ship with bad virtual memory managers, much less file systems that are inherently corrupt (talk about heads that would roll...)

      Sun hardware is expensive and propritary.
      IBM - Way too proprietary and expensive

      Sparc/Solaris and [particularly] 390/OS390 are expensive because they deliver what they advertise: 99.99999% uptime.

  34. Right On by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >companies changed from Wordperfect and Wordstar before that,

    The real question is HOW did M$ take over from WordPerfect. There were a number of factors.
    1) the most important was probably that M$ gave it away for so long. Every Linux distro should actually include SO/OpenOffice. Sun should see to it that anybody who wants to include it free with distro gets it.
    2) New and interesting features. One of the features that SO could use is expanding to include all the OutLook Capability. I have been trying to find out if they will include a decent calendar client/server. So far, nothing. But that would be a major win.
    3) Lots of training companies. Sun wants all the training dollars. Instead, Sun should keep training but should consider writing training classes that are done up the way that M$ does and then sell/lease them to Training companies. Let everybody push it. Sun just takes a cut of the seats sold, say 10%.

  35. Here's who you sue by ch-chuck · · Score: 2

    Say I paid good $$$ for a Win95 license and a bug in the 'a' version deleted 3 months of hard work. Who do I sue?? Why, Microsoft, of course. Except I won't win because the boilerplate I, you and everyone else in the enterprise agreed to clearly states:

    LIMITED WARRANTY

    CUSTOMER REMEDIES. Microsoft's and its supplier' entire liability and your exclusive remedy shall be, at Microsoft's option, either (a) return of the price paid, or (b) repair or replacement of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT or hardware that does not meet Microsoft's Limited Warranty and which is returned to Microsoft with a copy of your receipt.

    [etc., more limitations of liability, etc, then the rest shouts in ALL CAPS].

    NO OTHER WARRANTIES. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, MICROSOFT AND ITS SUPPLIERS DISCLAIM ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE (i.e., whatever manure the marketing dept. is spreading these days) etc etc etc.

    NO LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS (heheh), BUSINESS INTERRUPTIONS (it's going to take me at least a day to rebuild this database server), LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION (what do you mean last nights backup didn't execute!? I need last month's district earnings report now!!) OR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY LOSS ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR (I like this part :) INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE PRODUCT, EVEN IF MICROSOFT HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. etc etc etc.

    And that isn't just Msft, it's pretty much industry standard boilerplate whether you shelled out ten grand for the SOFTWARE PRODUCT or got it on a free CD at a Linux expo.

    --
    try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
    1. Re:Here's who you sue by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2

      Yes, but if it's important you get an SLA.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  36. I would have to say "no". by NineNine · · Score: 1, Troll
    1. Re:I would have to say "no". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not trying to pick a fight here...

      but I think it's inconsistent for a major security hole in one program (Linux' wuFTP) to disqualify one operating system while several major security holes in another program (Microsoft Outlook) are acceptable.

      I'll listen and agree with people that state Linux isn't ready to storm the mainstream because it lacks a strong Office suite that can import and export Microsoft Office documents with 100% compatibility. I'll also hear arguments that Gimp doesn't measure up to some other graphics tools. And I accept the reality that only people that aren't afraid to RTFM and get their hands dirty, so to speak, will view migrating to a new OS as anything other than a nightmare.

      But I believe that the Linux developers community on the whole has been excellent in patching security exploits and bugs as they're discovered.

    2. Re:I would have to say "no". by ch-chuck · · Score: 1

      Pfft, by that criterion, neither is Msft IIS (given the 'code red' fiasco). From what I read there are no exploits (yet). But yes, I verified you can ftp to a RH Linux 6.2 (and up to all the latest according to Security Focus), type "ls ~{" and lose connection due to a sig-11 segfault at the ftp server. That doesn't stop anyone else from using anonymous ftp tho, and I don't know how to exploit it. I'm looking for a patch right now since I have a public ftp running.

      --
      try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
    3. Re:I would have to say "no". by NineNine · · Score: 2

      Pfft, by that criterion, neither is Msft IIS (given the 'code red' fiasco)

      Exactly. That seems to be the general consensus from numbskulls like the Gartner group. IIS has a hole in it (with a patch that's been out for, what, a year?), so don't use W2K. My post was tounge-in-cheek.

    4. Re:I would have to say "no". by ch-chuck · · Score: 1

      My post was tounge-in-cheek.

      Ok ;)

      FWIW, I got the wu-ftp update patch from RedHat, had to upgrade my RH62 pam, db3 & rpm, then update wu-ftp and it all went flawlessly, no more security vulnerability ("ls ~{" now gets "Missing }" instead of disconnecting). Only took me about an hour; would be even faster with a subscription to the RH net autoupdate service.

      Re gartner, if someone can't keep up with IIS patches they would be buried by Apache, etc, and might be better off with an exciting new career in the food service industry, patty inversion specialist ;)

      --
      try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
  37. Better late than never... by lwbecker2 · · Score: 1

    Of course I posted this days ago and was rejected. Oh well.

  38. 64 bit by olympus_coder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Linux will not truely be viable for the Enterprise until it is entirely 64 bit, not just the kernel. We (a major university that works with geophysical data sets that are large - like corperate datasets) have to kludge around the 2gb limit emposed by utilities like gzip. Without 64bit apps, a 64bit kernel is off little use.

    --
    Spell check? Why bother. That is what grammer/spelling Nazi freaks who waiste band width posting "spell right" are for.
    1. Re:64 bit by baptiste · · Score: 2

      Yes but this is typical Microsoft user mindset - having to wait for the vendor to release a new version with a feature you need. The beauty of Linux is - you want it badly enough? Write it! If not stick with what works or see if others out there have the same concern and are willing to help out

    2. Re:64 bit by Dionysus · · Score: 1

      Yes, and this is a typical Linux user mindset - expecting everybody to write their own stuff. Hmmm... buying something off-the-shelf, or spending the next six months (tying up the resources that it entails), to write your own solution...

      I'm suprised you didn't ask the person to RTFM, while you were at it.

      --
      Je ne parle pas francais.
    3. Re:64 bit by baptiste · · Score: 2
      And thus you have your choices. Is it cheaper to purchase an MS platform with off the shelf products and wait for your vendor to release the version of an app you need (no telling how long you'll wait and waste $$$) vs using Linux and writing some stuff yourself if the apps you need aren't already there.

      There's nothing wrong with either - its whatever is best for you. I can't imagine porting gzip from 32-bits to 64-bits would take 6 months but who knows.

  39. Which enterprise? by Dionysus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There are different levels of enterprises. Are they talking about billion dollar companies, or are they talking about mom-and-pop companies?

    Where in the enterprise do they see Linux running?
    Is it as a printserver, database server, or the desktop?

    Personally, I don't think Windows will be replaced on the desktop in the foreseeable future. The average ubergeek/Linux user hates the normal user too much for that to happen (personally I think it's an inferiority complex...)

    On the server side, at my work, we still haven't seen any major request for Linux solutions (we write custom management solutions for midlevel enterprises, i.e. adding specific monitoring support into HP NNM, CA TNG, Tivoli etc). Here, Solaris reigns supreme (if you don't have Solaris support, you can forget it). We looked at Linux support about 6-12 months ago, and the thing is, from a network management point of view, Linux is terrible (right now). SNMP is not fully supported (the UCDavis agent that comes with RedHat doesn't have full SNMPv2 support), and it's harder to get to the underlying hardware than for WinNT and Solaris.

    It is getting there though. The Tivoli agent (no matter how you feel about Tivoli TME) has been ported to Linux (at least it was, last time I talked to a Tivoli rep at LinuxWorld '99). The new management standard, WBEM, seems to get full Linux attention from people like IBM, although it's still not there compared to what Sun and Microsoft has in place (basically, the frontend (cimom) seems to be there, the backend (providers) is missing).

    Quite frankly, I would be curious to see how people like Google is managing thousands of Linux servers (they're not going around pinging each server each day to see if it's up, are they?)

    Sorry about the rambling, it's early in the morning, and it's slashdot.

    --
    Je ne parle pas francais.
  40. Office Apps != "The Corporate Enterprise" by brassrat77 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I think MS Word interoperability is perhaps the single most important barrier limiting companies from changing to Linux. Other Office products such as MS Excel and MS Powerpoint are also important.

    Desktop office applications are a noticable but small part of "the Enterprise" and NOT the main point of the original article.

    "Enterprise" usually refers to the core applications running in the corporate data center. Inventory, payroll, order processing. Applications where downtime costs $$/minute. Applications where "No application"=="No business".

    Linux is making gains in these areas. The adoption rate appears slow because

    1. It is slow. "Bet the company" decisions are always slow. Implementation is slow. Anyone remember how long it took Windows NT to break into corporate data centers? (Many would argue it still isn't ready)
    2. Companies don't always consider what is a "mission critical" application. Areas where Linux excels - web, mail, dns, and many other RFC-based services, for example - may not be viewed as "critical". At least until the boss wants to know why the corporate web site is down (nmida) or the email system is hosed (badtrans). Then we get something like the Giga Group recommendation to use anything but IIS.
    3. Companies see this as a competitive advantage and do not want to discuss it. The big NYC financial firms are a good example.
    4. Consulting firms need more linux experience. Many enterprise customers rely on the IT consulting arms of the big system integrators and consulting firms. If these outfits push something other than Linux, something other than Linux gets proposed. Do they get incentives from MS, Sun, IBM, HP, CPQ...? Maybe. Anyone pushing Linux like that? Not yet.
    5. CIOs don't always know what's running. I've come across repeated examples where the top managers swear "Linux isn't allowed" but there are stealth, pilot, and production deployments all over the shop. The file sharing and print system runs Samba on Linux and "just works" (and isn't considered "enterprise" until a key document is needed).

    Penetration of Linux could still be better, of course. We need better support from enterprise management and backup systems. We need more "mind share". This article helps.

    Desktops remain a problem. Out of sight, out of mind. Windows is in everyone's face every day.

  41. Still Does Not Answer My Question by 4of12 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is all fine and good - using Linux for servers is a great business decision. No licensing hassles, stays up like a champ and keeps on performing. End of story. Let's move on.

    But what about:

    Doing system administration for large LANs of Linux desktops?

    Over the years we've been running RISC workstations that are becoming increasingly expensive from a hardware standpoint relative to what can be got in the x86 world.

    We'd like to take advantage of the price performance advantage in hardware as well as the increasing maturity of Linux desktop end user applications (which are getting real close now). It seems like a lot more applications are available for Linux desktop than many of the traditional commercial Unices.

    The problem is that everyone I know that runs Linux runs their workstation or laptop as their own cowboy system administrator. They typically don't worry about integrating dozens or hundreds of these things together in such a way that a small support staff can manage them effectively.

    You know the kinds of systems.

    • Haphazard applications installed whereever they felt like
    • distro installed out of the box without enough applications
    • no patches applied for necessary security updates
    • strange hardware hanging off moldy interfaces,
    • never thinking about whether it might be nice to use something like NIS (but I know that's not good enough) or automount,
    • never providing regular user file backup,
    • deciding whether to put apps on a central server or each desktop, (pros and cons either way)
    • how to handle upgrades,
    • etc.

    So what I want to know is:

    Has anyone done this?
    How did it work? What should we look out for? What is the advantages and disadvantages? Good tools? Web sites?
    --
    "Provided by the management for your protection."
    1. Re:Still Does Not Answer My Question by glwtta · · Score: 1

      I haven't done any large scale Linux desktop administration, but I can say this: Don't let them run the systems as cowboy admins. A user should never, ever ever install their own distro - what we always did with Win2K support was setup several "classes" of systems (including minimum hardware specs and the initial software), eg "office user" (your basic, average, day-to-day email, word and pictures), "managerial", "developer", etc. If you put a bit of thought into this, the vast majority of users will never need to install software themselves (or bug you to do it). Save the RPM configs, put them on a CDR, will make installations that much easier.

      And that goes for most of the other stuff as well - most of what you've listed, should just not be left up to the user, under any OS (except Mac - those you just plugin, turn on and replace every 4-6 years - I love those things! As long as I don't have to use one)

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    2. Re:Still Does Not Answer My Question by ChenLing · · Score: 1

      Don't let them be root.
      If they want to install software, they
      have to install it to
      /home/username/bin /home/username/lib etc....
      or request that you install it for everyone. Everyone's computers should be mirror images of each other. There are tools (I'm not sure of the package names) that allow you to do this.
      preferably have all the applications (/usr /opt /lib) local to the user, but their home directories (and perhaps /etc) on a central server. That way you can back it up regularly. Just treat it as a thick server / thick client situation.

      You might want to look into the Cyrus distributed file system.

      --
      "You have the option of insanity. I do not. And that makes me crazy!" - Brian to Angela, My So-Called Life
  42. Re:It depends on the enterprise they're talking ab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's got years alright, 300 some odd years since TNG is 24th century...

  43. Almost There by uslinux.net · · Score: 5, Interesting
    There are still a few things lacking in Linux distributions to make it fully "enterprise-ready" (I hate that term). For anyone who has truly spent time with other Unices, the following is obvious - Better Package Management! The ability to test out packages without "commiting" them so, if something breaks, you can immediately roll back to the prior state. Yes, I know you can uninstall and reinstall old packages, but it's NOT the same. Use HP-UX for a while and you'll understand - you can install, remove, commit, rollback, and test packages. In a production environment, it is critical that a newly installed patch or program doesn't break existing systems!


    As far as the kernel goes, I think Linux is there. I DON'T think Linux is necessarily ready to compete with NT or 2000 (though I give it 18 more months), since it is still lacking quite a few easy to use admin tools (think of the NT print manager or DHCP admin and you'll understand what I mean), but it is coming along.

    1. Re:Almost There by Dionysus · · Score: 1
      As far as the kernel goes, I think Linux is there.


      Is this true, though? If you have listened to the chorus lately, they seem to indicate that 2.4.x is not really ready yet (basically, if you're running 2.4.x on a production server, you are being blasted for not caring about stability).


      So, you are basically stuck with 2.2.x, and 2.2.x doesn't have the new enterprise features, like more memory support, and better SMP.

      --
      Je ne parle pas francais.
    2. Re:Almost There by dmelomed · · Score: 1

      This is total BS. 2.4 is production-ready. These are probably the same people who always stay one version behind, thinking their machine will be more stable. 2.4 handles many things better, including higher loads.

    3. Re:Almost There by uslinux.net · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, the kernel is ready, mostly depending on which kernel you use. There are a number of people (myself included) that think the kernels aren't necessarily getting enough testing before release, but if you stay a stable revision or two behind, you're probably in good shape. 2.4.10 is stable, and so far 2.4.16 has been (though I'm sure there will be revisions to it). If you REALLY want something stable, use an -ac kernel - Alan has done an excellent job of making sure these ARE production ready.

    4. Re:Almost There by glwtta · · Score: 1

      Definitely agree about the package management, but here's what I want to know:

      Why do people think that admin tools should be "easy to use" (I hate that term)?? Sure a nice GUI for priting or DHCP management would be cool, but that's trivial. Usually people are whining for "easy to use/user frienly, etc." tools for servers, system config and security - does it ever occur to anyone that if you know what you are doing you don't need pretty icons, and if you don't, you should stay the hell away from those configs? This just could be part of the reason why most MS installations can be hacked (and repeatedly are) by anyone with an IQ of at least 70 and enough fingers to type with.

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    5. Re:Almost There by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "easy to use"

      Why do you think they should be "hard to use"? If you're hearing a desire for more ease of use from others who can install and configure linux (i.e. IQ > 70) maybe it's a real need.

    6. Re:Almost There by uslinux.net · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Easy to use != less secure

      Hard to use != more secure (perhaps just the opposite)


      Easy to use does not necessarily mean there are flaws in security, or that you only need to point and click. It DOES, however, mean that someone like me who knows DHCP or DNS doesn't need to look up the man page every time I need to add an option, or forget to add an important security setting that isn't in a default configuration file. It also means that, by restricting _what_ can be modified, there is far less chance of an error. Ever use a # sign as a comment in a DNS zone file? It's terrible that Bind will keep on going without an error messages, but resolution (particularly of MX records) will fail miserably


      Commented config files are easier to use than non-commented ones which require you to read a man page. Similarly, GUI tools are easier to use than config files (generally) - especially when they include good help functions. GUI admin tools SHOULD NOT replace an admin or be a substitute for stupidity, but they SHOULD be there to make our lives easier.

    7. Re:Almost There by demaria · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Administrators are busy people. Many IT departments are understaffed. Admins have better things to do than battle with the UI.

    8. Re:Almost There by glwtta · · Score: 1

      My point was more about the people unlike you, who don't know DHCP or DNS, but when presented with a pretty GUI think that it looks "easy" and just check every second option, and feel good about themselves because the've "set up" something.

      Of course making something easier to use doesn't automatically make it less secure (or efficient for that matter) but there is a difference between making life easier for those who know what they are doing, and helping those who don't fool themselves into thinking that they don't have to RTFM.

      I've got nothing against conveniences (hell I am a lazy bastard as it is), I just don't think they matter greatly in the grand scheme of things - on the server market, that is.

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    9. Re:Almost There by sjames · · Score: 2

      Easy and hard may be the wrong words.

      DHCP is currently easy to set up, it's just a bit obscure to some. There is no dhcp-config.exe to present a GUI, you have to know what to edit in dhcp.conf. There is nothing hard about that editing, especially if you use a template that provides a decent or at least harmless example config.

      The same is true of many supposedly hard to configure daemons in Unix.

      Consider: If you have a clue, you will either already know where the configuration file is, and how to edit an example to fit your needs, or you will know how to RTFM and figure it out in short order. If you don't have those basic skills, perhaps you shouldn't touch an enterprise server's configuration.

      Think of it as a configurator that gives an IQ and basic skills test before allowing some idiot off the street to potentially hand the credit card database over to half the kids under 14 on the net.

      For example, the simplist and most convieniant 'user interface' for a door is to give it no latch so that it can be pushed open with ease. You will also note that such doors are never found on a safe, jail, or other security related area.

    10. Re:Almost There by Syberghost · · Score: 2

      Use HP-UX for a while and you'll understand - you can install, remove, commit, rollback, and test packages.

      A good point, but then again, I've never had RPM get halfway through a package upgrade, decide it didn't like the file, and just crash leaving the system in an unusable and unbootable state. HP-UX did that to us last week. HP recommended recovering from backup. All we were doing was installing a security patch to a non-kernel service, but it managed to hose a system library.

  44. Mirroring by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 2

    One of the biggest things missing in Linux that I see is software mirroring of hard drives. Are there any projects out there aimed at bringing that to Linux?

    --
    Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    1. Re:Mirroring by glwtta · · Score: 1

      (before I start - this isn't flamebait ;) ) Who actually uses software mirroring? Striping I can at least understand - your geekier home users might gain some performance that way.
      But the purprose of mirroring is data integrity, which (at least to me) means that

      a) you are doing this in a corporate environment and
      b) it's obviously important to you

      in which case I can't see why you wouldn't shell out the extra couple hundred $ (an imperceptable figure for a business, in the grand scheme of things) to do it properly (ie in hardware).

      I could of course, as always, be wrong.

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    2. Re:Mirroring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      umm... its called software RAID.... its in in the kernel and supported by some distributions out of the box... did you bother to RTFM?

  45. None of the above is Linux specific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It all applies to all systems. It's a systems management issue, not Linux. I've found that Linux is normally better out of the box than most commercial Unices for systems management. NIS, NIS+, LDAP, kerberos, rdist, rsync, NFS, cfengine etc etc etc are all there.

    http://www.infrastructures.org/

    1. Re:None of the above is Linux specific by dmelomed · · Score: 1

      It's just a matter of putting those things together. I've attempted to setup a centralized LDAP authentication and configuration, but the current available free implementations just suck miserably, e.g. the PAMLDAP module, and the PAM system itself is a nasty kludge. Anyone tried Caldera's Volution?

  46. XFS is "relatively immature?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just wondering...

    1. Re:XFS is "relatively immature?" by Salamander · · Score: 2

      Yes, XFS on Linux is relatively immature. Filesystems and operating systems interrelate in very complicated ways involving the VFS, VM, and block-device layers, and this OS-specific code is usually the most difficult part of FS development. The situation is made even worse by Linux's "VFS Layer From Mars"; there's more similarity between VFS layers on AIX and FreeBSD, for example, than between either and Linux. Because of all this, XFS on Linux is really quite a different creature than XFS on IRIX so XFS's history on IRIX essentially becomes irrelevant. Ditto for JFS on AIX vs. Linux. There is simply no journaling filesystem for Linux that has been widely enough used with stable OS interfaces for a long enough time to have that kind of confidence in it. Give it another year or so; there's no shame in waiting for sufficient real-life evidence before making ambitious claims.

      --
      Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
  47. Lack of NATIVE Aps is not important by mnf999 · · Score: 1

    I operate in the J2EE world, the java enterprise world. we don't give a rats ass what OS we run linux/solaris/windows same crap to us btw the state of virtual machines on linux trails windows just fyi...

    The modern application server the .net the j2ee should be in java just because is buys you teh app. then you compete solely on the vm field and that is a sweet position, level playing field.
    it is the app server stupid, the web-app server is the key to adoption.

    the article does mention linux+apache as a deployed solution "but it doesn't go much father" that is correct and why we need strong support of Java VM on linux, the J2EE open source groups are there: see JBoss, they have a full J2EE implementation and web services support

    --
    The real mnf999 always posts as anonymous coward
  48. Linux and the Enterprise by ansible · · Score: 2

    I think Linux will see greater adoption in the enterprise. Why? Java and J2EE.

    J2EE is the current wiz-bang development platform for enterprise applications. Looking past the hype, it appears to actually provide some good tools and structure. We're going to be seeing a lot more enterprise applications written on top of WebSphere or WebLogic or some other J2EE server platform. It seems to be the way to go if you don't want to be beholden to M$ and .NET.

    The thing is, since this is most all pure Java, all you need is a stable OS that supports your database (Oracle, DB2, etc.) and, of course, has a Java VM. Enter Linux.

    1. Re:Linux and the Enterprise by glwtta · · Score: 1

      You are precisely right - J2EE is a great platform, and its here to stay, .NET or no .NET (Just try to take WebLogic + Cafe away from someone who's used it for a while), WL runs great on Linux ( I haven't done/seen any speed comparisons, but it's stable as all get out) as does Oracle. And running big UNICES (and their indigenous hardware) is becoming less and less appealing simply from the bang/buck perspective. (I was recently pricing out a database server, it's amazing how little your get from Sun vs. Linux on Intel - and even more so on AMD) - I don't think there is any question remaining as far feasability of Linux as a server platform. It's the desktop that most peole are talking about nowadays.

      And that's the point where the article was especially devoid of substance. Apart from making some things up about browsers (I still don't understand how having more browsers available on Linux makes it worse) and Office - sure MS Office is superior to OpenOffice and KOffice in every way imaginable (except compatibility with other Offices, for some reason), but 99% of users will never use or need 90% of that "superiority" - I still haven't found a text document that I could type with MS Word, but not with KWord, or Writer or AbiWord.

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
  49. Is ANY OS ready for the famed "enterprise"? by glwtta · · Score: 1

    At my last company we ran a heterogeneous mix of Sun, Tru64 and Linux for the "real" (ie, core-business related apps, it was a Biotech) stuff and then were an MS bitch on the desktop and for all the "supporting infrastructure" - email/PIM, etc - in other words Exchange, etc. Which meant the only thing we had in the DMZ was the webmail thing - running on IIS.

    Which of course handily got hacked, giving access to the entire network - databases, fileservers, the source tree - everything. I can just imagine all the "not ready" head-shaking if that was a Linux box.

    So anyway, I would just love to see an "Is MS ready for entermprise/prime-time/mainstream?" article. (I just hate that word btw - mainstream - what does that make me? some sort of dirty, stagnant, out of the way puddle or something?)

    --
    sic transit gloria mundi
  50. This by anasophist · · Score: 1


    This does most of that.

    --
    anarchy rules
  51. Re:As others will surely also state... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Sure it does, it is just continued here:

    IBM Enterprise Software

    Oh, BTW, it isn't enterprise level if it isn't on hardware running software that supports 5 9's of uptime. And there aren't any intel class machines that support that level of uptime. No matter what the market droids claim.

    A mainframe is down on average less than 5 minutes a year. And that includes schedualled downtime.

  52. Re: Or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you can just run "RAIC" redundant arrays of inexpensive computers. This tends to work quite well for a large number of sets of problems. From image processing to 5 body gravity predictions. CERN is exclusively using Linux clusters to analysis Terrabytes of data from their collider experiements.

    You can build a 1000 node computer with dual processors, 1GB RAM and a 100GB IDE drive on every machine. The cost of this system would be around a million dollars, and it would probably easily be in the top 100 machines in the world for processing power. The system would have 3THz (1THz = 1000 MHz) worth of processors, 1TB of RAM and 100 TB of raw disk space.

    Not too shabby compared to what 1 million dollars bought you in super computers just a few years ago.

    I'm going to build a 10 node dual processor cluster myself next year... dual 2 GHz, 64bit AMD processors, 1 GB of memory each machine, and 100GB drives in each machine. That will get me 40 GHz worth of processor, 10 GB of DDR RAM and 1 TB of memory.

    I am going to be running POV Ray trace like a bat out of hell, making and encoding computer videos.

  53. Re:As others will surely also state... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    an mainframes staility is measured in decades rather than months like intel machines

  54. RedHat has RAID right there in the install by gruntvald · · Score: 1

    And I've used Linux "RAID" before, for regular mirroring. I'm quite sure you can do software mirroring of the system partition, though I don't know if it's available during a typical install. If this is your issue though, it seems somewhat odd, as most shops I know and work with rely on hardware only for this function. I've seen enough dead NT servers that had mirrored system drives, to wonder if it is the right approach.

  55. Corel Office 2000 would have been an option by westfieldscientific · · Score: 1

    I intended this reply to be a simple enthusiastic endorsement of Corel Office 2000 for Linux. CO2K came out in April 2000, noted in /. at the time, and I've been using it extensively since then, including frequent Save As .xls and .doc functions, which worked as expected.

    Downsides, noted here last April are that CO2K uses it's own proprietary version of WINE, which performs about as sluggishly as a M$ product, and that it's commercial software, which many Linux users object to for religious reasons. Despite these complaints, which are true, CO2K is the strongly preferred choice of suite here, and it also has the advantage of name-recognition and loyalty among large numbers of users with administrative of clerical backgrounds.

    I had intended to conclude by quickly mentioning the price, which is a lot lower than billyware. This is the point where the morning took a disturbing and Orwellian turn.

    Corel Office for Linux has been withdrawn from the Corel website. Not only has the product itself no longer being offered for sale, but the entire support section is deleted, although the newsgroup corel.wpoffice.office2000-linux is intact.

    Using the message threads as my only available source of information [This was announced nowhere] I gather the product was withdrawn sometime around the beginning of this month. Corel Support is quoted in one of the threads saying it's been "obsoleted".

    http://www.softwareandstuff.com still have it listed as available for order at a price of $49 USD, but if you're interested pursuing this direction, act quickly.

    --
    give me a /home where the buffalo roam
  56. Its Ready just have to convince managers by sneakybilly · · Score: 1

    I try to push Linux whereever I can. The only reason I did my MCSE for both NT and 2000 was so that I could push Linux on managers with authority.

    Linux is more than ready just have to convince Microsoft loving managment of this. Hell the price is right! Every Microsoft Box that I replace with Linux I feel that I am doing the world a service.

  57. huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    well, it has been a long time... gettin from there to here.

  58. MS Word not 100% MS Word compatible. by hey! · · Score: 2


    And 99% doesn't do, it must be 100.000%. If there are even small incompatibilities, you have to use genuine MS Word -> MS Windows.


    This is silly. Even MS Word does not open up its own documents with 100% consistency. The simpler ones, yes, but when you start getting into large documents with complex layouts, I have found it not uncommon that when I reopen such documents they often have badly corrupted formatting.

    Of course, the answer is I no longer do such documents in Word.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  59. Re:On-topic: Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be. by TeraCo · · Score: 1
    Summary: Linux may not be ready for the enterprise, but NEITHER IS WINDOWS Yet we have 50,000 Windows desktops in our Enterprise and 0 Linux desktops. [Admittedly, there are probably about 30 or so Linux servers in our research labs, although this is reasonably insignificant compared to our few thousand netware servers, few hundred Win2K servers and 'some' Mainframe stuff. [Not my area, so I couldn't say].

    PS: If you want to know how to restore a corrupted/changed profile, perhaps you should have contacted your local technical support person :)

    --
    Not Meta-modding due to apathy.
  60. Linux is comming to enterprise - from all sides. by deno · · Score: 2

    Quite often, when talking about "Linux in companies", people concentrate on big-scale employements, "global 500" companies and such.

    However, most people (90%?) work in small to medium enterprises with hunderts of "bizcases" online these days, and most of these are form small companies, schools, universities, NPOs... who simply can't afford the cost of commercial software, but can't afford the cost of a full-time linux/unix administrator either.

    Link: MandrakeBizcases

  61. alternative PDF writer by norfolkboy · · Score: 1

    for windows, try "PDF Factory" which although isn't free, is a pittance compared with Adobe's charges! Also acts as a printer, so you "print to" PDF Factory which makes u a lovely PDF :)

    PDF Factory is at http://www.fineprint.com (theres some links to follow)

  62. Nothing related to Free Software by loic2 · · Score: 1

    I find remarkable that the article is absolutely not related to Free Software. Of course you need to be an expert to know what is Free Software and what is not in the applications said to run under GNU/Linux. The random reader will have a hard time to find out. More disturbing is the fact that if you s/Linux/Solaris/ in the whole article, it reads perfectly well. I was under the impression that GNU/Linux was developped in a spirit that is revolutionary. Apparently that spirit was lost somewhere. Imagine a text about democracy where you could s/democracy/monarchy/ and it makes sense. One would quickly conclude that the text is not really about democracy and really talks about monarchy. Likewise the article says Linux everywhere but is really about proprietary software, proprietary solutions and a proprietary state of mind.