2 - Self consciousness (or cognitive level) of pigs, cows and such are much lower than humans, dolphins, whales, parrots and chimpanzees.
3 - I dont think porks, cows or any other animal happily and instantly fill my plate whilst frolicking in the fields just a moment ago. I know how it happens. That is why I am a vegetarian.
4 - I have not killed anything, and i am not eating anything that is killed.
- bleeding dolphins to death can not be justified or made to appear a light matter with the fact that a brutal meat industry exists in the world. if such a logic would apply, then it would easily be proposed to legalize torture for retarded, idiot, moron human beings or any being with less cognitive skill.
- evolution allows survival of the fittest. best form of being fit, is COOPERATION. species which are pitiful in physical or intellectual strength, cooperate, and this way manage to keep up or ahead of many stronger and more adept species. if intelligent and higher level species create any form of symbiotic and mutually beneficial relationship, effect is multiples of the lower levels of organism.
this is why there shouldnt be killing of any species for survival. sustenance with byproducts without killing anything leads to abundance. this is actually where the evolution of this planet is heading, however futuristic or sci-fi that may sound.
i am aware of the "otherism" process that comes with any sort of differentiation, and the pain it brings in the form of estrangement and resulting enmity and ultimately wars.
but
a measure of differentiation is needed to distinguish between what is right and not, and to discourage, in fact disallow what is not right.
no "culture" or "ethnicity" should be allowed to do uncivil, barbarian things on ANY grounds, even if thats their 10.000 year old heritage, culture, or religion.
if we allow these shitheads to continue with that "culture", then we have to permit some tribes in africa and amazon today to continue cannibalism "tradition" that they had practised for a few thousand years.
moderating while participating in the discussion is not possible. any mod points one uses in a discussion are nullified if s/he joins in the discussion by posting anything.
im just a part of the unison that the people in slashdot represent, and my views are naturally similar to many here. im at home field. hence the points.
you would dispute any source that i would bring forth.
military have expilictly stated that they want european union.
and as for the coup, if it were not for those interventions, many people wouldnt be alive as of now. especially in 1980.
if you are just some youngster that was born after 1976, stop discussing that with me, as you have no idea what it was like between 1975-1980. you would be only filled with crap out of prominent left wing or right wing journalists as to how the military intervention was so bad, without any info how bad it was before it.
i were 4 years old, and i was not let to play in the streets, along with MANY in my generation due to the mess up radical left and right wings created in the streets.
in turkey courts function just like the government, in line with state. there is little difference.
I don't think you are aware that there is no such thing as "current law in Turkey" about this, as you put it. If you read the news article carefully you'll see that it's only a proposition.
no you are not aware of there are many things such as "current laws in turkey".
301, which is an item in the constitution that requires state and courts to punish whomever insults or degrades ataturk, and turkish national identity.
this in turn allows for censorship that is done through many laws already in existence for censoring the press and tv.
using the same laws, courts have been censoring websites for a long time.
and this current 'proposition' is a precursor to the on-hold internet censorship law that will allow courts to ban any site that they find "incompliant" with not only 301, but turkish tradition, islam, religion, and more woefully, "good upbringing of the children", which is something as we all know VERY broad as a concept and anything can be justified in the name of it, including p2p filesharing.
no, it was not sabah which started that campaign. that article dates 31 march 2007. that was around 2 or so weeks after hurriyet and milliyet, which are aydin dogan's vessels that are used for own personal profit, have started the banter about the internet "poisoning" youth, and being "harmful" and it should be "cleaned". due to hurriyet and milliyet's, along with 3 channels in dogan media group's pressure, the internet censorship law was hastily brought in pm's office, and put on hold there, waiting a suitable moment to be pushed to the assembly as the climate was very tense with anti censorship sentiment. and this neat little trick we have here, utilizing and exploiting ataturk, in order to prevent people getting annoyed that islamic party might be trying to "clean up" the internet in an islamic ways. noone would be able to come up and object this, once this passes it will be easier to pass the censorship law that is on hold as of now.
sabah just took up the hype long after it was on its climax. for more sales of course.
they are BLEEDING the dolphins to death because "their meat will taste better due to adrenaline rush".
coupled with the fact that dolphins have an iq roughly equal to goofy rednecks, or any other portion of the human society that is not "intellectually gifted", this becomes a genocide. justifying and approving that would plainly mean one approves/justifies cannibalism, and even with torture too, of the less intellectually gifted portions of human demographic. or, mentally retarded people.
First, not the majority of turkish people want islamic state. The percentage that wants it is around 20% of the voters, and rather an inflated number that is (due to election frauds in islamic locales), and that would probably translate to the entirety of the population (including non-voters) as kinda maybe 25%-30% at the most.
rest are divided among major groups like kemalists (ataturk nationalists), west supporters, (liberals, which generally have many stuff in common with kemalists, except in nationalistic matters like ataturk is a taboo or not, and freedom of speech related to that issue), a good deal of social democrats (which generally are almost transient with kemalists, since most of ataturk's proposed ideas and guidelines curiously coincides with social democracy, and the party he founded, chp, is a social democrat party for over around, say 70 or so years), extreme nationalists, which are basically right wing radicals, which are very considerable in numbers, but not on majority over any of the above groups.
the biggest groups are named "undecideds" in turkey.
these are people of mild composition, they dont want to mess with anybody or anything, want matters to be good and life normal, no crises, no stampede, economy in rails etc and such. they are generally approving of european values, becuse of humanitarian approaches (we are not talking about stupid extreme left wing idiots here, were talking Danton, Erasmus, Voltaire, Rousseau humanism & liberalism - though this population rarely knows these writers's names), quality of life in europe in particular. (thinking that europeans must be doing some things right). and they want in in european union, nomatter who says what. extreme right wing nationalists, islamic groups, and even portion of the kemalists who are disullisioned with europe and dont want to get into euo anymore dont even add up to the number of this "silent crowd".
these "undecideds", ironically, are the people whose votes decide who gets in power at any given time.
in the last elections, they were extremely disillusioned by the corruption earlier parties and governments exhibited, and some were impressed with the seemingly considerable work that was done by the people in municipial duties (who founded the akp later, and tayyip erdogan, current pm was the mayor of istanbul, islamic), so they said exactly like this; "lets try those islamists this time".
this was a sentence which was actually said by those people in debates, among family, friends and such.
and they voted for them. and voila, 38% votes for islamic party, and thanks to the election system that twists the votes SO absurd, they get 95% of the chairs in the assembly.
curiously, islamists also want to get into the eu. many fragments of islamic community thinks that it will be much too easier to spread islamic influence when turkey is in eu. and they are right, from what we see from the proceedings of a minority islamic population is able to succeed in netherlands, even in this state.
hence when in power, islamic party (akp) have pushed for eu reforms with unseen vigor in any prior government. and passed many laws to eu guidelines. as in all matters that comes too fast, too low a number of these laws are actually being practiced.
ah, i forgot one segment. that is the military.
it is a MAJOR segment of the population. in that it holds armed power, and also in that there are explicit items in constitution that ordains the army "guardianship of secular democratic regime".
and for the last 80 years, they have been EXACTLY doing that.
back around 1960, an islamically inclined prime minister, Adnan Menderes, and his then center-right and extreme-right composured party (demokrat parti, which is curiously the party that the roots and many members of the akp or other right/islamically inclined parties come from), have gone rather awkward, started censoring the media in the wake of increasing critisizm for failure, BANNE
There is no need to vote. turkish courts are already censoring many websites easily with the current law. check www.megaupload.com . its censored in turkey. entire site. there are at least 320 sites of TURKISH origin that were censored totally because they had contained sexual content, even mildly.
WHO is going to define what is "morally detrimental" to the "Children" ?
what defines morally detrimental ? as with the current law in turkey ANYTHING that is critisizing the state can be placed as "morally detrimental" to upbringing of the children.
and thats what exactly they are wanting to do. islamic government wants anything not in line with islam removed from access.
and as for sabah, it was not sabah that was propagating that shit about "clean internet". it was hurriyet and milliyet, who are property of aydin dogan, dogan media group.
and the reason they were doing this had no relation to children at all. aydin dogan has invested in a number of turkish internet sites, and wants international sites be banned.
they have got a license for online betting, set up a betting site. just prior to this, hurriyet has ran stories about how international betting sites were ruining peoples lives and tried to create a publicity for international betting site ban.
hurriyet has ran a story and pumped up the video about ataturk in youtube, youtube was banned, and voila, suddenly hurriyet (aydin dogan's) own video service site appeared at hurriyet.com.tr at the day of the ban.
this is what the fuck this moron is doing. under the pretense of "children", he is trying to force turkish people to using his own services, by banning international sites, for his own personal gain.
this is fine with the islamic government too - aydin dogan, their number one culprit is creating publicity for censorship, and they are passing laws to do it.
they say "dont sell cress to a cress seller" in turkey.
i AM turkish. i am living in turkey for my whole life. i KNOW what it is like here.
there no such thing as "east meets west" exist. it was invented by government in order to make tourism advertisements abroad, and also put turkey's cause forward in european union application back in 1986-1987. Turgut Ozal, was the prime minister then.
again, there is no such thing, and in istanbul east meets east. nobody but the turkish believe in such a thing that "east meets west" exists. its just a hype make-believe.
you dont know whats going on around here these days. this is a precursor to a long-prepared law that will come later, which will give the government the right to censor "inappropriate" content. that law has been waiting for some time in the assembly now, due to public reaction. now, legalizing censorship first in a pretense that noone can object in ataturk matter, then they will push for the law thats already waiting.
so cut with the "east meets west" shit. there no such thing exists. it is some hype concept that government had invented to make tourism advertisements 20-30 years ago. nobody in the world thinks such a thing exists but only us.
"they" arent electing their religious pm into presidency - the islamic majority party who grabbed 95% of the seats in parliament with only 38% of the votes ( and a good half of them undecideds) is doing it.
it is actually a precursor move from an islamic government in order to make public accept censorship as normal and then move on to censoring stuff "non-islamic".
Mustafa Kemal (ataturk) was a man who was sending youngsters who have stood up to him in any matter political or social, to get university education abroad in europe, out of his own pocket.
Maybe in Turkey, but by the late '80s every single 8-bit computer I've mentioned had already been superceded and most of them had been completely discontinued. And apart from the Apple II none of them were business machines.
i dont get it - WHERE there were lower-middle classes being able to buy pcs and similar level computers in late 80s ?
(warning EXTREMELY graphic and VERY disturbing. people with heart condition, people who get annoyed a long time after watching violence, children, people at work, delicate duties should not watch)
actually, and the idiotic posts by japanese in the comments to that video, pretty much nullified anything japan has as a value in my eyes. iran as a country and nation seems much more civil.
What is going to happen to our economy if we get to the point where you can build devices and even vehicles using some sort of nano replicator? Will we just tell the companies that make the designs to go fuck themselves, if they thing they should get any return on the design of a new ferrari, space ship, media player, etc.?
with a little bit of standards regulation, it will be a paradise.
This will turn into a new race of online content distribution innovation apparently. Whoever jumps in the bandwagon will get miles ahead of their competition, who miss it will be forgotten.
Slashdot Mirror
1 - I am not american. I am turkish.
2 - Self consciousness (or cognitive level) of pigs, cows and such are much lower than humans, dolphins, whales, parrots and chimpanzees.
3 - I dont think porks, cows or any other animal happily and instantly fill my plate whilst frolicking in the fields just a moment ago. I know how it happens. That is why I am a vegetarian.
4 - I have not killed anything, and i am not eating anything that is killed.
- bleeding dolphins to death can not be justified or made to appear a light matter with the fact that a brutal meat industry exists in the world. if such a logic would apply, then it would easily be proposed to legalize torture for retarded, idiot, moron human beings or any being with less cognitive skill.
- evolution allows survival of the fittest. best form of being fit, is COOPERATION. species which are pitiful in physical or intellectual strength, cooperate, and this way manage to keep up or ahead of many stronger and more adept species. if intelligent and higher level species create any form of symbiotic and mutually beneficial relationship, effect is multiples of the lower levels of organism.
this is why there shouldnt be killing of any species for survival. sustenance with byproducts without killing anything leads to abundance. this is actually where the evolution of this planet is heading, however futuristic or sci-fi that may sound.
i am aware of the "otherism" process that comes with any sort of differentiation, and the pain it brings in the form of estrangement and resulting enmity and ultimately wars.
but
a measure of differentiation is needed to distinguish between what is right and not, and to discourage, in fact disallow what is not right.
no "culture" or "ethnicity" should be allowed to do uncivil, barbarian things on ANY grounds, even if thats their 10.000 year old heritage, culture, or religion.
if we allow these shitheads to continue with that "culture", then we have to permit some tribes in africa and amazon today to continue cannibalism "tradition" that they had practised for a few thousand years.
it is not justifiable or by any means acceptable.
moderating while participating in the discussion is not possible. any mod points one uses in a discussion are nullified if s/he joins in the discussion by posting anything.
im just a part of the unison that the people in slashdot represent, and my views are naturally similar to many here. im at home field. hence the points.
you would dispute any source that i would bring forth.
military have expilictly stated that they want european union.
and as for the coup, if it were not for those interventions, many people wouldnt be alive as of now. especially in 1980.
if you are just some youngster that was born after 1976, stop discussing that with me, as you have no idea what it was like between 1975-1980. you would be only filled with crap out of prominent left wing or right wing journalists as to how the military intervention was so bad, without any info how bad it was before it.
i were 4 years old, and i was not let to play in the streets, along with MANY in my generation due to the mess up radical left and right wings created in the streets.
in turkey courts function just like the government, in line with state. there is little difference.
I don't think you are aware that there is no such thing as "current law in Turkey" about this, as you put it. If you read the news article carefully you'll see that it's only a proposition.
no you are not aware of there are many things such as "current laws in turkey".
301, which is an item in the constitution that requires state and courts to punish whomever insults or degrades ataturk, and turkish national identity.
this in turn allows for censorship that is done through many laws already in existence for censoring the press and tv.
using the same laws, courts have been censoring websites for a long time.
and this current 'proposition' is a precursor to the on-hold internet censorship law that will allow courts to ban any site that they find "incompliant" with not only 301, but turkish tradition, islam, religion, and more woefully, "good upbringing of the children", which is something as we all know VERY broad as a concept and anything can be justified in the name of it, including p2p filesharing.
no, it was not sabah which started that campaign. that article dates 31 march 2007. that was around 2 or so weeks after hurriyet and milliyet, which are aydin dogan's vessels that are used for own personal profit, have started the banter about the internet "poisoning" youth, and being "harmful" and it should be "cleaned". due to hurriyet and milliyet's, along with 3 channels in dogan media group's pressure, the internet censorship law was hastily brought in pm's office, and put on hold there, waiting a suitable moment to be pushed to the assembly as the climate was very tense with anti censorship sentiment. and this neat little trick we have here, utilizing and exploiting ataturk, in order to prevent people getting annoyed that islamic party might be trying to "clean up" the internet in an islamic ways. noone would be able to come up and object this, once this passes it will be easier to pass the censorship law that is on hold as of now.
sabah just took up the hype long after it was on its climax. for more sales of course.
it is not distasteful.
they are BLEEDING the dolphins to death because "their meat will taste better due to adrenaline rush".
coupled with the fact that dolphins have an iq roughly equal to goofy rednecks, or any other portion of the human society that is not "intellectually gifted", this becomes a genocide. justifying and approving that would plainly mean one approves/justifies cannibalism, and even with torture too, of the less intellectually gifted portions of human demographic. or, mentally retarded people.
First, not the majority of turkish people want islamic state. The percentage that wants it is around 20% of the voters, and rather an inflated number that is (due to election frauds in islamic locales), and that would probably translate to the entirety of the population (including non-voters) as kinda maybe 25%-30% at the most.
rest are divided among major groups like kemalists (ataturk nationalists), west supporters, (liberals, which generally have many stuff in common with kemalists, except in nationalistic matters like ataturk is a taboo or not, and freedom of speech related to that issue), a good deal of social democrats (which generally are almost transient with kemalists, since most of ataturk's proposed ideas and guidelines curiously coincides with social democracy, and the party he founded, chp, is a social democrat party for over around, say 70 or so years), extreme nationalists, which are basically right wing radicals, which are very considerable in numbers, but not on majority over any of the above groups.
the biggest groups are named "undecideds" in turkey.
these are people of mild composition, they dont want to mess with anybody or anything, want matters to be good and life normal, no crises, no stampede, economy in rails etc and such. they are generally approving of european values, becuse of humanitarian approaches (we are not talking about stupid extreme left wing idiots here, were talking Danton, Erasmus, Voltaire, Rousseau humanism & liberalism - though this population rarely knows these writers's names), quality of life in europe in particular. (thinking that europeans must be doing some things right). and they want in in european union, nomatter who says what. extreme right wing nationalists, islamic groups, and even portion of the kemalists who are disullisioned with europe and dont want to get into euo anymore dont even add up to the number of this "silent crowd".
these "undecideds", ironically, are the people whose votes decide who gets in power at any given time.
in the last elections, they were extremely disillusioned by the corruption earlier parties and governments exhibited, and some were impressed with the seemingly considerable work that was done by the people in municipial duties (who founded the akp later, and tayyip erdogan, current pm was the mayor of istanbul, islamic), so they said exactly like this; "lets try those islamists this time".
this was a sentence which was actually said by those people in debates, among family, friends and such.
and they voted for them. and voila, 38% votes for islamic party, and thanks to the election system that twists the votes SO absurd, they get 95% of the chairs in the assembly.
curiously, islamists also want to get into the eu. many fragments of islamic community thinks that it will be much too easier to spread islamic influence when turkey is in eu. and they are right, from what we see from the proceedings of a minority islamic population is able to succeed in netherlands, even in this state.
hence when in power, islamic party (akp) have pushed for eu reforms with unseen vigor in any prior government. and passed many laws to eu guidelines. as in all matters that comes too fast, too low a number of these laws are actually being practiced.
ah, i forgot one segment. that is the military.
it is a MAJOR segment of the population. in that it holds armed power, and also in that there are explicit items in constitution that ordains the army "guardianship of secular democratic regime".
and for the last 80 years, they have been EXACTLY doing that.
back around 1960, an islamically inclined prime minister, Adnan Menderes, and his then center-right and extreme-right composured party (demokrat parti, which is curiously the party that the roots and many members of the akp or other right/islamically inclined parties come from), have gone rather awkward, started censoring the media in the wake of increasing critisizm for failure, BANNE
There is no need to vote. turkish courts are already censoring many websites easily with the current law. check www.megaupload.com . its censored in turkey. entire site. there are at least 320 sites of TURKISH origin that were censored totally because they had contained sexual content, even mildly.
cut the crap.
WHO is going to define what is "morally detrimental" to the "Children" ?
what defines morally detrimental ? as with the current law in turkey ANYTHING that is critisizing the state can be placed as "morally detrimental" to upbringing of the children.
and thats what exactly they are wanting to do. islamic government wants anything not in line with islam removed from access.
and as for sabah, it was not sabah that was propagating that shit about "clean internet". it was hurriyet and milliyet, who are property of aydin dogan, dogan media group.
and the reason they were doing this had no relation to children at all. aydin dogan has invested in a number of turkish internet sites, and wants international sites be banned.
they have got a license for online betting, set up a betting site. just prior to this, hurriyet has ran stories about how international betting sites were ruining peoples lives and tried to create a publicity for international betting site ban.
hurriyet has ran a story and pumped up the video about ataturk in youtube, youtube was banned, and voila, suddenly hurriyet (aydin dogan's) own video service site appeared at hurriyet.com.tr at the day of the ban.
this is what the fuck this moron is doing. under the pretense of "children", he is trying to force turkish people to using his own services, by banning international sites, for his own personal gain.
this is fine with the islamic government too - aydin dogan, their number one culprit is creating publicity for censorship, and they are passing laws to do it.
thats an interesting insight that might prove true.
they say "dont sell cress to a cress seller" in turkey.
i AM turkish. i am living in turkey for my whole life. i KNOW what it is like here.
there no such thing as "east meets west" exist. it was invented by government in order to make tourism advertisements abroad, and also put turkey's cause forward in european union application back in 1986-1987. Turgut Ozal, was the prime minister then.
again, there is no such thing, and in istanbul east meets east. nobody but the turkish believe in such a thing that "east meets west" exists. its just a hype make-believe.
you totally misunderstanding the situation.
i AM turkish. i LIVE in turkey.
you dont know whats going on around here these days. this is a precursor to a long-prepared law that will come later, which will give the government the right to censor "inappropriate" content. that law has been waiting for some time in the assembly now, due to public reaction. now, legalizing censorship first in a pretense that noone can object in ataturk matter, then they will push for the law thats already waiting.
i AM turkish.
so cut with the "east meets west" shit. there no such thing exists. it is some hype concept that government had invented to make tourism advertisements 20-30 years ago. nobody in the world thinks such a thing exists but only us.
and the sole reason is due to this : (extremely graphic content. if you get irritated do NOT watch) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjqZi46P8Gs
makes one think if racism might be a necessary component of social life to a degree after all.
thats an idea that is occuring to me also latelay.
there is no such thing. In istanbul east meets east.
Young Turk party is not "young turk's" party. its just naming. its a jacobenite party.
and ataturk was fighting in gallipoli during 1915.
"they" arent electing their religious pm into presidency - the islamic majority party who grabbed 95% of the seats in parliament with only 38% of the votes ( and a good half of them undecideds) is doing it.
it is actually a precursor move from an islamic government in order to make public accept censorship as normal and then move on to censoring stuff "non-islamic".
you really will get it banned with that. even without the voting, assembly decision. with the current laws.
Mustafa Kemal (ataturk) was a man who was sending youngsters who have stood up to him in any matter political or social, to get university education abroad in europe, out of his own pocket.
i dont get it - WHERE there were lower-middle classes being able to buy pcs and similar level computers in late 80s ?
anything from youtube after this :
(warning EXTREMELY graphic and VERY disturbing. people with heart condition, people who get annoyed a long time after watching violence, children, people at work, delicate duties should not watch)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LjqZi46P8Gs
actually, and the idiotic posts by japanese in the comments to that video, pretty much nullified anything japan has as a value in my eyes. iran as a country and nation seems much more civil.
with a little bit of standards regulation, it will be a paradise.
This will turn into a new race of online content distribution innovation apparently. Whoever jumps in the bandwagon will get miles ahead of their competition, who miss it will be forgotten.