Well, armenians always fail to state the fact that during 1915 and on, they have formed many local gangs and started small scale guerilla warfare in eastern anatolia, which warfare did not opt out killing out denizens of turkish villages. there are still people remembering armenians who killed entire villages back then.
Mustafa Kemal was the FIRST person among world leaders to warn the political community AGAINST the danger of the nazi, even when chamberlain and his dorkies were saying "peace in our times". Not only that, but he mentioned that 'the danger in the east' was much more worse than nazis, referring to STALIN.
Speak in only matters you know about. Keep your silence for anything else, lest you shall be taken as a fool.
this is something that is rather out of the current kurdish issue we are having here. its a matter of principle for the state. military, who have fought for many years and have suffered around 10 000 dead (most of which are conscripts, ordinary citizens like me) against pkk, feels much offended by such moves by radical kurds. actually what that person was trying to do was being a part of a move to legalize ocalan, with 30 000 dead in his score, as a 'political leader'. which something that is on the same level as acquitting adolf hitler for his crimes, if you think in turkish terms.
for example, i killed nobody, have not made anyone suffer, yet, noone calls me Mr. in turkey. actuall y, as a citizen i myself do not want any respect to be shown to people who have scored 30 000 kills.
oh boy did i ? actually i never did deny my turkish origins, which is unfortunately a DISADVANTAGE in turkey as of these times. if i was a kurd, i would have the backing of my appropriate clan behind me, able to threaten out any local businessman competing with my own shop, or get anyone who annoys me beat up in a back alley.
i myself would like to be in a country like denmark, and continue being non discriminative against any and all type of people. however, as i know from my finnish friend, you people in scandinavia actually do not live on this earth, the places you live are more civil and benign than the rest of the world actually is. its impossible for you to understand our situation.
and thats true, the turks that immigrate to europe are the worst of the worst here. and a great deal of who you think to be turks there are kurds in fact too.
Ill just c/p what i said in response to a similar comment a little while ago here :
as for the 'let them go in their own state and get rid of them' - this does not apply.
clans order kurds to multiply. there are 20 children PER PARENT on average in southeastern anatolia !!! and there are record numbers going to 45 children per parent !!! did you know that ?
Same goes in western turkey. they immigrate here, just 3 kurd families come, and in 10 years time 6 people multiply into 100-200 people, just by breeding. this is actually being utilized as a tactic also by orders of ocalan, as he said 'multiply'.
So, even if we let them go in their own state, any little number of migrants will start to multiply in western parts too, and doing the same thing - wanting independence. they are already doing this in a state which had no kurdish population, but was 'populated' this way - mersin.
i wont even go into if their government would fight the clans, and mafia for us, because their current existing northern iraq government is actually what is backing those. and fyi, there are many mafia intrusions to turkish government too, albeit not kurdish. so nothing would change. instead of a secular, manageable geography, we would have a balkans-like, hellish ethnic doompot here.
and something people in europe doesnt know - there is Nothning like 'the more you give, the better they get' in middle eastern cultures. not in a single one of them. it is actually 'the more you give, the more they want and exploit'. it has been so for the last 3000 years of middle east history, and it is not going to change.
i actually warn europeans if i could - kurds settled there, they are multiplying, and they are saying that they are oppressed, and seek help, what they get, and get roots there while supplying terrorists in pkk. and in the slightest event that a european country enforced their laws upon them, as you can see from the recent french crackdown of terrorist cells of pkk within the france, they turn on their host nation - they rallied riots and burned cars in france after french's legal intervention in terrorist cells.
this something that westerners and europeans do not know about. in middle eastern cultures, there is nothing called 'gratidude'. and double talk, keeping a fake face is encouraged, as one can deduce from folklore and local sayings. kurds in europe will pose a major problem later for france and germany, mark my words.
the problem is, parts of turkey except southern anatolia is, and never been middle eastern in culture. actually, same sort of people still live on similar with the ones that lived in Hittite era, 3500 years ago. we are a culture that is stuck in middle of european and middle eastern cultures, which always clash in turkey. nice, but problematic place.
and, recent insurgence of kurds, if you have a knack at history, is just similar to assyrian emergence that menaced the region long time ago. they actually sprung up from the same geographical point, had very similar cultural and racial traits, and are both ruthless against their enemies, just like assyrians who have made a reputation for violence against the people in the territories they occupied.
actually to be honest, im little bit afraid that another assyrian element is being built up in northern iraq.
Oh boy. you definitely have no clue about the way of life in anatolia and eastward.
First, there is the fact that, when 8 out of 10 of a certain lot does the same thing, you HAVE to generalize. Its basically as simple as that. Its like saying that 'you cant generalize members of the nazi party, they are not all equal'. Well, these are not nazi, but you get my meaning. What you propose goes against the general naming of things in life - if what you say would apply, we wouldnt be able to use the term 'website' because all websites are different.
I can say not all americans are racist, not all french are snobs, not all english are cold. Because this is as such, but, unfortunately still more than 90% of the kurds live in clan structures, and most unfortunately the clan enforces and promotes such behaviour. Hence we find kurds involved in the events i described.
as for the 'let them go in their own state and get rid of them' - this does not apply.
clans order kurds to multiply. there are 20 children PER PARENT on average in southeastern anatolia !!! and there are record numbers going to 45 children per parent !!! did you know that ?
Same goes in western turkey. they immigrate here, just 3 kurd families come, and in 10 years time 6 people multiply into 100-200 people, just by breeding. this is actually being utilized as a tactic also by orders of ocalan, as he said 'multiply'.
So, even if we let them go in their own state, any little number of migrants will start to multiply in western parts too, and doing the same thing - wanting independence. they are already doing this in a state which had no kurdish population, but was 'populated' this way - mersin.
i wont even go into if their government would fight the clans, and mafia for us, because their current existing northern iraq government is actually what is backing those. and fyi, there are many mafia intrusions to turkish government too, albeit not kurdish. so nothing would change. instead of a secular, manageable geography, we would have a balkans-like, hellish ethnic doompot here.
and something people in europe doesnt know - there is Nothning like 'the more you give, the better they get' in middle eastern cultures. not in a single one of them. it is actually 'the more you give, the more they want and exploit'. it has been so for the last 3000 years of middle east history, and it is not going to change.
i actually warn europeans if i could - kurds settled there, they are multiplying, and they are saying that they are oppressed, and seek help, what they get, and get roots there while supplying terrorists in pkk. and in the slightest event that a european country enforced their laws upon them, as you can see from the recent french crackdown of terrorist cells of pkk within the france, they turn on their host nation - they rallied riots and burned cars in france after french's legal intervention in terrorist cells.
this something that westerners and europeans do not know about. in middle eastern cultures, there is nothing called 'gratidude'. and double talk, keeping a fake face is encouraged, as one can deduce from folklore and local sayings. kurds in europe will pose a major problem later for france and germany, mark my words.
the problem is, parts of turkey except southern anatolia is, and never been middle eastern in culture. actually, same sort of people still live on similar with the ones that lived in Hittite era, 3500 years ago. we are a culture that is stuck in middle of european and middle eastern cultures, which always clash in turkey. nice, but problematic place.
and, recent insurgence of kurds, if you have a knack at history, is just similar to assyrian emergence that menaced the region long time ago. they actually sprung up from the same geographical point, had very similar cultural and racial traits, and are both ruthless against their enemies, just like assyrians who have made a reputation for violence against the people in the territories they occupied.
actually to be honest, im little bit afraid that another assyrian element is being built up in northern iraq.
A little info on who Ataturk (Mustafa Kemal) is
on
Turkey Censors YouTube
·
· Score: 4, Informative
and what he did.
Actually Mustafa Kemal is a jacobin, someone who is extremely in line with French Revolution ideals. (Same ideals were in fact envisioned before french revolution in france with the likes of voltaire, rousseau and the contemporaries, and put forth as bill of rights in American Revolution and united states's founding ideals).
By that time, Turkey was Ottoman Empire. The 'holy state' understanding was in much heights after the ending of reign of Sultan Abdulhamid, who was an absolute monarchist, and ruled with an iron fist. Actually, that iron fist regime has ended with the intervention of modernists in the military, the Jonturks, who was roughly french revolution idealists, jacobenites, who Mustafa Kemal was a member of. They have led an army from modern day greece to istanbul, and effected the removal of Abdulhamid.
Pre world war I and in world war i, mustafa kemal shown much aptidude and prowess as a commander. In gallipoli, most known examples of his profess in matters military. This, have put him in much renowned position among the military commanders.
It was known that he was a republican (not in u.s. sense, but in a sense that is much more in line with Danton), and he and similar people wouldnt accept subsequent invasion and occupation and partition of turkey with the proposed Sevrés treaty that effectively turned Anatolia into modern day yugoslavia (you got my meaning), and therefore he was appointed to a non-existent, fud army by the Sultan (then Mehmed) to an obscure region of turkey so that he wouldnt stir anything up.
Instead, he resigned from the military, and Jacobenites (Jonturks, as they are known in turkish lingo) have gathered up in eastern anatolia, called for national assembly to be formed without approval from istanbul government, and created a national assembly with elected representatives there.
From that point on, the government in ankara, which was a rebel ragtag's convention in istanbul government's and occupation forces' eyes, was de facto government of anatolia.
Then this government proceeded to gather the spread-out resistance movements to the occupation (english, french, italian and then later greek) occupations of anatolia, and turned them into a regular army.
what ensues is known as 'battle of independence' in turkish history, which roughly summarizes a major war against occupying greek forces, who were being used as a thug by the british government in power than, and some local fighting against the french in southern regions of the turkey. curiously italians and turkish did not fight at all, italian occupation of allotted territories have been uneventful, neither side complaining from each other, and passing time peacefully until ankara government's victory against greek forces and establishment of turkish republic and subsequent removal of italian forces from turkish territories, which italy did themselves by their decision, again, uneventfully.
fight against the greek invasion, who was fueled by extremist nationalists in greece was bloody though, and many people died in both sides. fight ended when the final greek units were pushed out of izmir, in western turkey.
occupation forces in istanbul, who were british, did not create a skirmish with turkish forces, a standoff ensued, which ended with english forces pulling out as a result of Lausanne treaty, in which international community recognized the now Turkish Republic.
Immediately after, Mustafa Kemal embarked in many reforms. This is the main issue why Mustafa Kemal is idolized.
First, he ended the khaliphate, effectively ending mohammad's successors combined rule of matters religional and governmental. Secular state was introduced, based on rationale. This annoyed the hell out of islamic segments of turkey.
Second, he instituted educational reforms. There were 1 or 2 % people who were capable of reading & writing in turkey. After 20 years, this rate has gone to, what, 70% or so, if
It is clear that you have no real insight of the situation in southeastern anatolia.
government does not kill kurds. who are killed in the fights in the mountains with the army are the militants who are recruited from iran, northern iraq ( non turkish zone), and syria by the pkk and sent to invade southeastern anatolia.
those who live IN southeastern anatolia, unless they get fooled by ocalan's propaganda and join pkk, have no trouble in stealing electricity, getting around 15% of the budget in investments and such. hell, even those who join pkk can get away quite easily - all they need to do is to come back and say 'i regret it' to any gendarmerie or police unit, and voila, they lie in prison for 2 months, and up and away with normal life.
If i kill someone and do this, i go to jail and not get out before 6 years, in the most positive of results. but if i join pkk and do this, its just 2 months for me. and sometimes no jail time at all.
and all in the meantime, kurdish mafia and clans are still active in western parts of the turkey.
Definitely. Humanity unfortunately slips away when you happen to fall in a position that you need to save your ass, and repetitively, from the same ethnic group, and despite the fact that he and you are under the same equal treatment in a country.
Excuse me, i said equal, which is actually not so - nobody touches a kurd in turkey for the fear of their clan retaliating against you - police evades them, low level bureucrats do kurds' work faster to evade any quarrels (which might result in being bashed in a back alley by him with some relatives), tax people evade messing up too much with kurdish shopkeepers and so on.
unfortunately, despite being in the 'whitish white' position in terms of social strata in turkey, i am not enjoying the same liberties. I have to abide by all laws in full, and pay all dues.
It would be utterly ridiculous to demand equal rights as racism. And that is what i do.
Despite being a Jacobenite Turk, totally in compliance with ideals of French Revolution jacobins, i have to also say that that 'convicted' 'rebel' is little more than a thug that has amassed 30.000 kills from both sides in the last 20 years to his own account.
As for the minority that is 'suffering' in southeastern turkey, the kurds, he is 'fighting for', a few facts here, so you can decide if there is anything to rebel about :
- 80% of the electricity used in that region is illegal - they directly steal electricity from the national network, and do not pay. We, people living in western parts pay for kurd's electric bills.
- In the last 20 years, a great deal of the national budget has been spent in infrastructure investments in southeastern anatolia, in kurd populated zone, for them to be able to better do agriculture and related activities. Now they are making heaploads of money, but all the money is taken by their clan leaders in accordance with their long standing clan structure and individuals do not get anything major. they are fine with it, dont object.
- A good deal of them migrate to western parts of turkey and major cities. the number of rapes, muggings, robberies, and other mafia-related activities have gone to such an extent that national police is unable to deal with them all, and a nation wide outcry is going on for a few years now. They move in and rent a shop in a neighborhood, then gradually force out ALL other people out of their businesses and rent all shops to their kurdish relatives. There has come up a common saying that "if you let a kurd in to a neighborhood, after 10 years all of the neighborhood becomes kurd".
Despite all these likewise happenings, they go and cry to the european civil rights people saying that 'they are being suppressed' in turkey. ill tell you who is actually being suppressed, people like me, who are civil, normal people, who cant take a leisurely stroll about antalya, which is the most important touristic destination in turkey, comparable to cannes, barcelona, balear islands, without the fear of being mugged by one kurd, and that kurd being let out from jail in just a day's time, because of utterly ridiculous punitive laws that were passed by the pressure of european union, because the current laws were not 'civil' enough. instead these laws are serving muggers', robbers', mafias' interests in turkey - rob someone, youre out in just 2 days. there are people who consecutively committed 18 and more, some fatal robberies, felonies and etc, and still walking openly around - because of the overly 'civil' laws imposed by eu.
Excuse me, but no humanist ideal, no french revolutionary approach, no civility concept can justify letting out of killers, muggers, rapists and the like in a few days. And unfortunately kurds are the ones who are most benefiting from these laws. Their mafia is most harmful.
And yet we have ocalan, and his 'rebellion' to 'save' kurds from 'oppression'.
I have paid $150 for monthly electric bill, which roughly translates into a $600-$700 bill in united states terms, DESPITE not using any noticeable electricity. You know why ? Someone needs to pay the stolen electricity in kurdish regions so that national electric company can come up in the green.
What i wonder is, WHO is going to protect us from the kurds ?
Turkey is a place where 'holy state' concept still lingers on. Anything said against the state, or 'holy' values instantly justifies and extreme measures - like banning of a whole mega site from ALL users in an 60 million nation.
it doesnt matter what purpose for the site is generally used or not - just say something that is not to the liking of the state, and voila, all is gone.
Turkey is not a modern country by any means unfortunately. Everything is shown to be in that direction by the turkish negotiators to european union, however suppression of the citizens by the government still continue on.
Recently, if you remember, a list of 30+ games including Knight online, counterstrike, halflife and such were banned in turkey from internet cafes with the state decision, citing reports from obscure, unknown local academician's reports that said 'these games teach kids violence'. These reports were given on the fly, with demand from government, in a few hours without any research. Simple as that. An executive decision that took half a day for the governmental bureucracy to take and implement.
Same goes for anything else - citizens are pariah to the state in turkey. If you go to get something done in a local government branch, the appointed/elected authority holders scorn over you, elected representatives of the assembly behave like they are local feudal lords, not as normal people elected to serve people. The current Finance Minister passes out FOUR laws in order to erase HIS OWN COMPANY'S tax debts to government, and nobody can oppose it. A newspaper/television says something not to the liking of the ruling party, and suddenly finance ministry starts a thorough and not-by-the-book tax examination of that newspaper/televison to suppress them.
Recently a law was prepared and proposed in order to make it much more easy for government to control what is being said on the internet, with the help of a certain media group's fud-spamming, saying that 'internet is evil and needs to be straightened out'.
As through the course of history, majority of the french ruling class rules like idiots, getting all the perks of governing, living a life deluxe, suppressing as much as they can suppress, and a small jacoben minority does revolutions from time to time, cutting the elite's heads.
But it is without any debate that for the last 10 years france has been ruled by TOTAL idiots and morons. And here is what their 'constitutional' council says to them, translated into common language : "We want police to beat anyone they need to beat, and we dont want any evidence to be produceable"... Fucking scum...
What a disgrace for a nation that produced french revolutionaries....
such words should never be used for things related to technology/science. likewise words were spent in abundance in 19th century for a limitless number of proposed stuff, and naysayers have always been proved wrong. Science always moves forward, and nothing is impossible in the universe.
once and for all. Its SO 18th century to distribute information in the way they are trying to mandate on us. We have the internet now - we can publish anything anywhere with it, not needing them.
actually someone got into one of the best grad schools in europe, ranking 499th among 1.5 million entrance examinees, studied there for 4 years, got disgusted what was being prepared for him at the end of it and how scholastic, church-like academic world was, and left off to seek his own way.
Dont even dare think of flaming me - remember the recent crap from u.s. senate we had to put up with about net neutrality, drm, patents, any shit that is beneficial to big buck, but detrimental to ALL people.
What eu did is something good. U.S. senate should learn to follow in its tracks.
you americans started to demean europe TOO much lately.
dont forget that, the ideas that sparked the united states revolution, the concepts of humanity, equality, republicanism and the like spread from europe especially with the 18th century writers like Rousseau, Voltaire, Diderot. If there werent these guys in the earlier parts of 18th century, many american founding fathers wouldnt field the same ideas with same strength in years coming up to 1774.
give some god damn deserved crecedence to europe dammit - some part of that soul which made 1789 still lives on in there - support them !
Remember "Scientific paper generators" ? That you chose a topic, chose some other crap, and instantly you had a 'paper' generated, speaking scientifically and even getting accepted and published when sent to respectable scientific publications ?
scholars read each others' and long-dead scientists' papers, quote them by 'et al'ling, pour some of their own shit, and publish papers regularly. most of the academic world is not doing anything in the name of science other than sitting in their offices and purporting out such 'papers' every now and then - only to let them gather dust in volumeful tomes of past scientific publications...
this is 'office' science - you do not lift your ass up from your chair, yet confer validity/invalidity upon ANY stuff happening in the real world from within the confines of your room. no field research aptidude, no inclination to do such either...
i would take on fake wikipedia 'academicians' over real ones any day. at least, fake ones produce some useful shit.
- Whenever i connect to internet, i am directly taken to porn. Actually, there isnt anything else on internet than porn. And thus, isnt it just logical to assume that when wii gets on the net, its user will be directly taken to porn too ? am i missing something here ?!?!?!
Just look at the number of successful I.T. businesses that have been busted because of 'acquisitions', 'mergers' and 'buyouts'. From software programming to gaming, and quite a many notable names have gone to shit. Just for some already loaded parties can make some more quick cash.
Slashdot Mirror
Well, armenians always fail to state the fact that during 1915 and on, they have formed many local gangs and started small scale guerilla warfare in eastern anatolia, which warfare did not opt out killing out denizens of turkish villages. there are still people remembering armenians who killed entire villages back then.
Actually here in turkey we wonder WHO is going to protect us from the so called 'suppressed and oppressed kurdish' oppression.
d =18263022
Read this comment and on so that you may see a piece of the light :
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=225558&ci
Mustafa Kemal was the FIRST person among world leaders to warn the political community AGAINST the danger of the nazi, even when chamberlain and his dorkies were saying "peace in our times". Not only that, but he mentioned that 'the danger in the east' was much more worse than nazis, referring to STALIN.
Speak in only matters you know about. Keep your silence for anything else, lest you shall be taken as a fool.
this is something that is rather out of the current kurdish issue we are having here. its a matter of principle for the state. military, who have fought for many years and have suffered around 10 000 dead (most of which are conscripts, ordinary citizens like me) against pkk, feels much offended by such moves by radical kurds. actually what that person was trying to do was being a part of a move to legalize ocalan, with 30 000 dead in his score, as a 'political leader'. which something that is on the same level as acquitting adolf hitler for his crimes, if you think in turkish terms.
for example, i killed nobody, have not made anyone suffer, yet, noone calls me Mr. in turkey. actuall y, as a citizen i myself do not want any respect to be shown to people who have scored 30 000 kills.
oh boy did i ? actually i never did deny my turkish origins, which is unfortunately a DISADVANTAGE in turkey as of these times. if i was a kurd, i would have the backing of my appropriate clan behind me, able to threaten out any local businessman competing with my own shop, or get anyone who annoys me beat up in a back alley.
i myself would like to be in a country like denmark, and continue being non discriminative against any and all type of people. however, as i know from my finnish friend, you people in scandinavia actually do not live on this earth, the places you live are more civil and benign than the rest of the world actually is. its impossible for you to understand our situation.
and thats true, the turks that immigrate to europe are the worst of the worst here. and a great deal of who you think to be turks there are kurds in fact too.
Ill just c/p what i said in response to a similar comment a little while ago here :
as for the 'let them go in their own state and get rid of them' - this does not apply.
clans order kurds to multiply. there are 20 children PER PARENT on average in southeastern anatolia !!! and there are record numbers going to 45 children per parent !!! did you know that ?
Same goes in western turkey. they immigrate here, just 3 kurd families come, and in 10 years time 6 people multiply into 100-200 people, just by breeding. this is actually being utilized as a tactic also by orders of ocalan, as he said 'multiply'.
So, even if we let them go in their own state, any little number of migrants will start to multiply in western parts too, and doing the same thing - wanting independence. they are already doing this in a state which had no kurdish population, but was 'populated' this way - mersin.
i wont even go into if their government would fight the clans, and mafia for us, because their current existing northern iraq government is actually what is backing those. and fyi, there are many mafia intrusions to turkish government too, albeit not kurdish. so nothing would change. instead of a secular, manageable geography, we would have a balkans-like, hellish ethnic doompot here.
and something people in europe doesnt know - there is Nothning like 'the more you give, the better they get' in middle eastern cultures. not in a single one of them. it is actually 'the more you give, the more they want and exploit'. it has been so for the last 3000 years of middle east history, and it is not going to change.
i actually warn europeans if i could - kurds settled there, they are multiplying, and they are saying that they are oppressed, and seek help, what they get, and get roots there while supplying terrorists in pkk. and in the slightest event that a european country enforced their laws upon them, as you can see from the recent french crackdown of terrorist cells of pkk within the france, they turn on their host nation - they rallied riots and burned cars in france after french's legal intervention in terrorist cells.
this something that westerners and europeans do not know about. in middle eastern cultures, there is nothing called 'gratidude'. and double talk, keeping a fake face is encouraged, as one can deduce from folklore and local sayings. kurds in europe will pose a major problem later for france and germany, mark my words.
the problem is, parts of turkey except southern anatolia is, and never been middle eastern in culture. actually, same sort of people still live on similar with the ones that lived in Hittite era, 3500 years ago. we are a culture that is stuck in middle of european and middle eastern cultures, which always clash in turkey. nice, but problematic place.
and, recent insurgence of kurds, if you have a knack at history, is just similar to assyrian emergence that menaced the region long time ago. they actually sprung up from the same geographical point, had very similar cultural and racial traits, and are both ruthless against their enemies, just like assyrians who have made a reputation for violence against the people in the territories they occupied.
actually to be honest, im little bit afraid that another assyrian element is being built up in northern iraq.
Oh boy. you definitely have no clue about the way of life in anatolia and eastward.
First, there is the fact that, when 8 out of 10 of a certain lot does the same thing, you HAVE to generalize. Its basically as simple as that. Its like saying that 'you cant generalize members of the nazi party, they are not all equal'. Well, these are not nazi, but you get my meaning. What you propose goes against the general naming of things in life - if what you say would apply, we wouldnt be able to use the term 'website' because all websites are different.
I can say not all americans are racist, not all french are snobs, not all english are cold. Because this is as such, but, unfortunately still more than 90% of the kurds live in clan structures, and most unfortunately the clan enforces and promotes such behaviour. Hence we find kurds involved in the events i described.
as for the 'let them go in their own state and get rid of them' - this does not apply.
clans order kurds to multiply. there are 20 children PER PARENT on average in southeastern anatolia !!! and there are record numbers going to 45 children per parent !!! did you know that ?
Same goes in western turkey. they immigrate here, just 3 kurd families come, and in 10 years time 6 people multiply into 100-200 people, just by breeding. this is actually being utilized as a tactic also by orders of ocalan, as he said 'multiply'.
So, even if we let them go in their own state, any little number of migrants will start to multiply in western parts too, and doing the same thing - wanting independence. they are already doing this in a state which had no kurdish population, but was 'populated' this way - mersin.
i wont even go into if their government would fight the clans, and mafia for us, because their current existing northern iraq government is actually what is backing those. and fyi, there are many mafia intrusions to turkish government too, albeit not kurdish. so nothing would change. instead of a secular, manageable geography, we would have a balkans-like, hellish ethnic doompot here.
and something people in europe doesnt know - there is Nothning like 'the more you give, the better they get' in middle eastern cultures. not in a single one of them. it is actually 'the more you give, the more they want and exploit'. it has been so for the last 3000 years of middle east history, and it is not going to change.
i actually warn europeans if i could - kurds settled there, they are multiplying, and they are saying that they are oppressed, and seek help, what they get, and get roots there while supplying terrorists in pkk. and in the slightest event that a european country enforced their laws upon them, as you can see from the recent french crackdown of terrorist cells of pkk within the france, they turn on their host nation - they rallied riots and burned cars in france after french's legal intervention in terrorist cells.
this something that westerners and europeans do not know about. in middle eastern cultures, there is nothing called 'gratidude'. and double talk, keeping a fake face is encouraged, as one can deduce from folklore and local sayings. kurds in europe will pose a major problem later for france and germany, mark my words.
the problem is, parts of turkey except southern anatolia is, and never been middle eastern in culture. actually, same sort of people still live on similar with the ones that lived in Hittite era, 3500 years ago. we are a culture that is stuck in middle of european and middle eastern cultures, which always clash in turkey. nice, but problematic place.
and, recent insurgence of kurds, if you have a knack at history, is just similar to assyrian emergence that menaced the region long time ago. they actually sprung up from the same geographical point, had very similar cultural and racial traits, and are both ruthless against their enemies, just like assyrians who have made a reputation for violence against the people in the territories they occupied.
actually to be honest, im little bit afraid that another assyrian element is being built up in northern iraq.
and what he did.
Actually Mustafa Kemal is a jacobin, someone who is extremely in line with French Revolution ideals. (Same ideals were in fact envisioned before french revolution in france with the likes of voltaire, rousseau and the contemporaries, and put forth as bill of rights in American Revolution and united states's founding ideals).
By that time, Turkey was Ottoman Empire. The 'holy state' understanding was in much heights after the ending of reign of Sultan Abdulhamid, who was an absolute monarchist, and ruled with an iron fist. Actually, that iron fist regime has ended with the intervention of modernists in the military, the Jonturks, who was roughly french revolution idealists, jacobenites, who Mustafa Kemal was a member of. They have led an army from modern day greece to istanbul, and effected the removal of Abdulhamid.
Pre world war I and in world war i, mustafa kemal shown much aptidude and prowess as a commander. In gallipoli, most known examples of his profess in matters military. This, have put him in much renowned position among the military commanders.
It was known that he was a republican (not in u.s. sense, but in a sense that is much more in line with Danton), and he and similar people wouldnt accept subsequent invasion and occupation and partition of turkey with the proposed Sevrés treaty that effectively turned Anatolia into modern day yugoslavia (you got my meaning), and therefore he was appointed to a non-existent, fud army by the Sultan (then Mehmed) to an obscure region of turkey so that he wouldnt stir anything up.
Instead, he resigned from the military, and Jacobenites (Jonturks, as they are known in turkish lingo) have gathered up in eastern anatolia, called for national assembly to be formed without approval from istanbul government, and created a national assembly with elected representatives there.
From that point on, the government in ankara, which was a rebel ragtag's convention in istanbul government's and occupation forces' eyes, was de facto government of anatolia.
Then this government proceeded to gather the spread-out resistance movements to the occupation (english, french, italian and then later greek) occupations of anatolia, and turned them into a regular army.
what ensues is known as 'battle of independence' in turkish history, which roughly summarizes a major war against occupying greek forces, who were being used as a thug by the british government in power than, and some local fighting against the french in southern regions of the turkey. curiously italians and turkish did not fight at all, italian occupation of allotted territories have been uneventful, neither side complaining from each other, and passing time peacefully until ankara government's victory against greek forces and establishment of turkish republic and subsequent removal of italian forces from turkish territories, which italy did themselves by their decision, again, uneventfully.
fight against the greek invasion, who was fueled by extremist nationalists in greece was bloody though, and many people died in both sides. fight ended when the final greek units were pushed out of izmir, in western turkey.
occupation forces in istanbul, who were british, did not create a skirmish with turkish forces, a standoff ensued, which ended with english forces pulling out as a result of Lausanne treaty, in which international community recognized the now Turkish Republic.
Immediately after, Mustafa Kemal embarked in many reforms. This is the main issue why Mustafa Kemal is idolized.
First, he ended the khaliphate, effectively ending mohammad's successors combined rule of matters religional and governmental. Secular state was introduced, based on rationale. This annoyed the hell out of islamic segments of turkey.
Second, he instituted educational reforms. There were 1 or 2 % people who were capable of reading & writing in turkey. After 20 years, this rate has gone to, what, 70% or so, if
who hoo hooo.
It is clear that you have no real insight of the situation in southeastern anatolia.
government does not kill kurds. who are killed in the fights in the mountains with the army are the militants who are recruited from iran, northern iraq ( non turkish zone), and syria by the pkk and sent to invade southeastern anatolia.
those who live IN southeastern anatolia, unless they get fooled by ocalan's propaganda and join pkk, have no trouble in stealing electricity, getting around 15% of the budget in investments and such. hell, even those who join pkk can get away quite easily - all they need to do is to come back and say 'i regret it' to any gendarmerie or police unit, and voila, they lie in prison for 2 months, and up and away with normal life.
If i kill someone and do this, i go to jail and not get out before 6 years, in the most positive of results. but if i join pkk and do this, its just 2 months for me. and sometimes no jail time at all.
and all in the meantime, kurdish mafia and clans are still active in western parts of the turkey.
I personally see a great need for more blonde swedish population worldwide in general ...
Definitely. Humanity unfortunately slips away when you happen to fall in a position that you need to save your ass, and repetitively, from the same ethnic group, and despite the fact that he and you are under the same equal treatment in a country.
Excuse me, i said equal, which is actually not so - nobody touches a kurd in turkey for the fear of their clan retaliating against you - police evades them, low level bureucrats do kurds' work faster to evade any quarrels (which might result in being bashed in a back alley by him with some relatives), tax people evade messing up too much with kurdish shopkeepers and so on.
unfortunately, despite being in the 'whitish white' position in terms of social strata in turkey, i am not enjoying the same liberties. I have to abide by all laws in full, and pay all dues.
It would be utterly ridiculous to demand equal rights as racism. And that is what i do.
Despite being a Jacobenite Turk, totally in compliance with ideals of French Revolution jacobins, i have to also say that that 'convicted' 'rebel' is little more than a thug that has amassed 30.000 kills from both sides in the last 20 years to his own account.
As for the minority that is 'suffering' in southeastern turkey, the kurds, he is 'fighting for', a few facts here, so you can decide if there is anything to rebel about :
- 80% of the electricity used in that region is illegal - they directly steal electricity from the national network, and do not pay. We, people living in western parts pay for kurd's electric bills.
- In the last 20 years, a great deal of the national budget has been spent in infrastructure investments in southeastern anatolia, in kurd populated zone, for them to be able to better do agriculture and related activities. Now they are making heaploads of money, but all the money is taken by their clan leaders in accordance with their long standing clan structure and individuals do not get anything major. they are fine with it, dont object.
- A good deal of them migrate to western parts of turkey and major cities. the number of rapes, muggings, robberies, and other mafia-related activities have gone to such an extent that national police is unable to deal with them all, and a nation wide outcry is going on for a few years now. They move in and rent a shop in a neighborhood, then gradually force out ALL other people out of their businesses and rent all shops to their kurdish relatives. There has come up a common saying that "if you let a kurd in to a neighborhood, after 10 years all of the neighborhood becomes kurd".
Despite all these likewise happenings, they go and cry to the european civil rights people saying that 'they are being suppressed' in turkey. ill tell you who is actually being suppressed, people like me, who are civil, normal people, who cant take a leisurely stroll about antalya, which is the most important touristic destination in turkey, comparable to cannes, barcelona, balear islands, without the fear of being mugged by one kurd, and that kurd being let out from jail in just a day's time, because of utterly ridiculous punitive laws that were passed by the pressure of european union, because the current laws were not 'civil' enough. instead these laws are serving muggers', robbers', mafias' interests in turkey - rob someone, youre out in just 2 days. there are people who consecutively committed 18 and more, some fatal robberies, felonies and etc, and still walking openly around - because of the overly 'civil' laws imposed by eu.
Excuse me, but no humanist ideal, no french revolutionary approach, no civility concept can justify letting out of killers, muggers, rapists and the like in a few days. And unfortunately kurds are the ones who are most benefiting from these laws. Their mafia is most harmful.
And yet we have ocalan, and his 'rebellion' to 'save' kurds from 'oppression'.
I have paid $150 for monthly electric bill, which roughly translates into a $600-$700 bill in united states terms, DESPITE not using any noticeable electricity. You know why ? Someone needs to pay the stolen electricity in kurdish regions so that national electric company can come up in the green.
What i wonder is, WHO is going to protect us from the kurds ?
Oh boy !! I love blonde "swödige"
Turkey is a place where 'holy state' concept still lingers on. Anything said against the state, or 'holy' values instantly justifies and extreme measures - like banning of a whole mega site from ALL users in an 60 million nation.
it doesnt matter what purpose for the site is generally used or not - just say something that is not to the liking of the state, and voila, all is gone.
Turkey is not a modern country by any means unfortunately. Everything is shown to be in that direction by the turkish negotiators to european union, however suppression of the citizens by the government still continue on.
Recently, if you remember, a list of 30+ games including Knight online, counterstrike, halflife and such were banned in turkey from internet cafes with the state decision, citing reports from obscure, unknown local academician's reports that said 'these games teach kids violence'. These reports were given on the fly, with demand from government, in a few hours without any research. Simple as that. An executive decision that took half a day for the governmental bureucracy to take and implement.
Same goes for anything else - citizens are pariah to the state in turkey. If you go to get something done in a local government branch, the appointed/elected authority holders scorn over you, elected representatives of the assembly behave like they are local feudal lords, not as normal people elected to serve people. The current Finance Minister passes out FOUR laws in order to erase HIS OWN COMPANY'S tax debts to government, and nobody can oppose it. A newspaper/television says something not to the liking of the ruling party, and suddenly finance ministry starts a thorough and not-by-the-book tax examination of that newspaper/televison to suppress them.
Recently a law was prepared and proposed in order to make it much more easy for government to control what is being said on the internet, with the help of a certain media group's fud-spamming, saying that 'internet is evil and needs to be straightened out'.
Unfortunately this is turkey for you.
As through the course of history, majority of the french ruling class rules like idiots, getting all the perks of governing, living a life deluxe, suppressing as much as they can suppress, and a small jacoben minority does revolutions from time to time, cutting the elite's heads.
... Fucking scum ...
....
But it is without any debate that for the last 10 years france has been ruled by TOTAL idiots and morons. And here is what their 'constitutional' council says to them, translated into common language : "We want police to beat anyone they need to beat, and we dont want any evidence to be produceable"
What a disgrace for a nation that produced french revolutionaries
and now they are shitting in Canada soil. Boy. Greed knows no boundaries. Drop a few hundred grants to a senator, s/he will go shit anywhere for you.
- "They are earning cash we were craving, but are too uncompetitive to get".
such words should never be used for things related to technology/science. likewise words were spent in abundance in 19th century for a limitless number of proposed stuff, and naysayers have always been proved wrong. Science always moves forward, and nothing is impossible in the universe.
once and for all. Its SO 18th century to distribute information in the way they are trying to mandate on us. We have the internet now - we can publish anything anywhere with it, not needing them.
actually someone got into one of the best grad schools in europe, ranking 499th among 1.5 million entrance examinees, studied there for 4 years, got disgusted what was being prepared for him at the end of it and how scholastic, church-like academic world was, and left off to seek his own way.
Dont even dare think of flaming me - remember the recent crap from u.s. senate we had to put up with about net neutrality, drm, patents, any shit that is beneficial to big buck, but detrimental to ALL people.
What eu did is something good. U.S. senate should learn to follow in its tracks.
you americans started to demean europe TOO much lately.
dont forget that, the ideas that sparked the united states revolution, the concepts of humanity, equality, republicanism and the like spread from europe especially with the 18th century writers like Rousseau, Voltaire, Diderot. If there werent these guys in the earlier parts of 18th century, many american founding fathers wouldnt field the same ideas with same strength in years coming up to 1774.
give some god damn deserved crecedence to europe dammit - some part of that soul which made 1789 still lives on in there - support them !
Remember "Scientific paper generators" ? That you chose a topic, chose some other crap, and instantly you had a 'paper' generated, speaking scientifically and even getting accepted and published when sent to respectable scientific publications ?
...
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scholars read each others' and long-dead scientists' papers, quote them by 'et al'ling, pour some of their own shit, and publish papers regularly. most of the academic world is not doing anything in the name of science other than sitting in their offices and purporting out such 'papers' every now and then - only to let them gather dust in volumeful tomes of past scientific publications
this is 'office' science - you do not lift your ass up from your chair, yet confer validity/invalidity upon ANY stuff happening in the real world from within the confines of your room. no field research aptidude, no inclination to do such either
i would take on fake wikipedia 'academicians' over real ones any day. at least, fake ones produce some useful shit.
thats very old news, if you will
- Whenever i connect to internet, i am directly taken to porn. Actually, there isnt anything else on internet than porn. And thus, isnt it just logical to assume that when wii gets on the net, its user will be directly taken to porn too ? am i missing something here ?!?!?!
Just look at the number of successful I.T. businesses that have been busted because of 'acquisitions', 'mergers' and 'buyouts'. From software programming to gaming, and quite a many notable names have gone to shit. Just for some already loaded parties can make some more quick cash.