For complete discussion, millions of cars are not ever parked in electrified garages.
For every car that is not parked in a garage, there are 10 cars parked in garages. We will get that market first. That market is big enough for BEV to thrive even if we never ever solve the issue of street parkers.
No, it is not an impediment. It just shows you have not thought through EV ownership. That is all. I was like you, so it is not unusual.
Just think how many days the car sat in the garage overnight for more than 4 hours. That is enough time to put in 150 miles of charge. Every day you start with full tank, so you are like to start with 150 miles already. So charging time is NOT the issue for your day to day driving.
Long distance trips? Just think back. How many times in the last three years you drove more than 250 miles on a single day.. On those days, count the second and third filling you did. That is how often you would need "fast charge" or "super charge". It is not an issue at all.
EVs will sell as soon as they reach price parity. There will be no reason to buy more than one gas car per family as soon as price parity is reached. As people get used to the idea of never visiting a gas station for city driving, always having enough range in the car in the morning, they will resent breaking their routine for a fill up. All the 10 minutes and 15 minutes saved during the city driving weeks will be spent on long distance driving. It would be at the most 45 minutes longer than using a gas car that is all. Given the cost savings, lots of people will accept it.
So Tesla Model 3 at 60K is the only thing competing with Accord? Soon, there will be a battery car with same level of performance and build quality as an Accord for the same price.
Gas car or battery car, same price, take your pick. Think of two questions. 1. will I pick the gas car? 2. How many will pick the gas car.
Known reserves are one thing. Compared to how much we have spent on oil and gas exploration, cobalt is just starting. It is there, and we will find them.
Amethyst was the most expensive gem in Europe for a while, more expensive than rubies and diamonds. Today you can buy a amethyst geode, several hundred pounds in weight, tastefully cut geode exposing the gem studded interior for a few hundred dollars in any natural curiosity store.
My 250HP Tesla 0 to 60 in 5 seconds. It is like getting gasoline at 75 cents a gallon. That is my running costs. You have no idea how cheap electrics are to run. Gasoline has to fall below 60 cents a gallon to match the running cost of BEV. It is the purchase price and lack of availability that is holding back BEV.
The interesting thing is that this is not going to be because of the whole 'green' thing.
You are 100% correct on this. Because tree hugging liberals ranting about fossil fuels evangelize so much about BEV, there is an impression it is for the "environmentally conscious people willing to sacrifice money and time and convenience". Nope. Not true at all. I am thankful for them for funding the early R&D and overpaying for their Tesla model S and X to make BEV practical.
Truth be told, I am one of them too, in a smaller degree, (I only overpaid for my Model 3 ). But BEVs will take over the world, and batteries will kill the oil industry, not because they are good for the environment, but because they are cheaper. It might even be possible batteries create toxic waste in manufacturing, recycling or retiring process. Still, if they are cheaper they will take over the world, despite all the protests by tree huggers and/or concern trollers bemoaning the pollution of battery making process.
for example because some can't charge at their homes?
True, some people can not charge at home. And some people will not buy pickup trucks. Does it mean there is no market for pickup trucks? The number of people who can charge at home will outnumber those who can't. The market will serve them.
The ICEV market is not a monolithic all or nothing affair. BEV will peel off customers. Initially it is the early adapters, tree huggers, acceleration fanatics,... Then cost conscious people who can charge at home, if the price is right, As the BEV sales increases, more charging will develop. HOAs will relent when lots of the home owners are clamoring for charge points, Apartments will see a revenue stream selling parking spots with charging points...
VW always muddied the waters by using the term "electrified cars" to club together hybrids and pure electric cars. But it is now interesting it uses the term "combustion cars" and "carbon neutral". I hope they are not excluding hybrids from the "combustion cars" category.
It is inevitable. The battery prices have been falling and have reached a tipping point. The battery pack cost estimate varies from 120 $/kWh to 150 $/kWh. (Battery cell prices range between 100 $./kWh to 130 $/kWh). The general consensus is when the battery pack costs 100 $/kWh the cost of electric power train (battery + motor + charger) will equal the cost of ICE power train (engine + transmission + emission control + gas tank). At that point BEV and ICEV will sell at the same price. BEV will cost three to five times less [FN1] compared to ICEV. At that point transition to BEV will be rapid.
People who have never driven BEV are misled by the lack of visible charging infrastructure compared to gas stations. Tesla super chargers few and far between. What they don't realize is every home, every electrical outlet is a gas station. Charging time does not matter. Cars sit idle all night long, enough time to charge. In fact BEV people feel ICEV fueling takes too much time, having to stop by at the gas station every week or so.
Also cars are the second most expensive thing bought by home owners, and the single most expensive thing bought by renters. When they see a big flux coming, things are unsettled, they post pone the decision to buy the next car. It will hurt ICEV companies a lot more than BEV companies.
But vehicles are just the beginning. There is no new breakthrough needed in batteries. The breakthrough needed is in manufacturing, industrial engineering, assembly lines for batteries, volume production, etc, all are known issues with known solutions. We know how to do this, we are just struggling to figure out how to finance this. When battery packs cost 80 $/kWh in 2022 all vehicles, from 18 wheelers to earth movers to train locomotives will run on batteries. Oil demand falling by 50% creating a glut and gasoline price falling to 1 $/gallon.. even that will not stem the tide. ICEV will be more expensive than battery. At 60 $/kWh we can store three days worth of electricity used by the entire grid in batteries. Solar and Wind will be enough and all the coal/gas/oil fired powerplants will go bust.
My friend works in a salt mine that ordered a 130 million dollar HVAC system because they are using diesel earth movers deep in the mine's confined spaces. In today's prices, you can buy 1 GWh of batteries, keep thm on 16 hour charge, 8 hour duty cycle, and run 40 earth movers, each using 500 HP motor operating 24/7. Only problem is 1 GWh of batteries is 2.5% of the world's battery making capacity! Look at the demand, look at the potential, the tipping point has been reached already. It is just a matter of ramping up the production volumes!
[FN1] BEV, Tesla model 3, 75 kWh for 310 miles, 1 kWh = 12 cents, 2.9 cents/mile. Compare to 250 HP BMW X3 25 mpg, 3 $/gal, 12 cents. Ratio = 4.1, plug in your numbers, ratio can down to 2.5 or go up to 6.
Privacy train has left the station ages ago. No body seems to give a damn. People casually take a picture and post and share everything, from what they eat to what they crap.
You are also correct about being rejected by consumers.
But, goal of Microsoft is not these consumers. It is to retain its grip on corporate IT. Their ChromeOS clone will have ActiveDirectory authentication built in. And it will be pitched to corporations.
And it might not do any better. But it will give the appearance of doing something etc till the stock options vest and the current crop of mismanagers to retire or cash out.
You are an anonymous Coward. He has level 35 achievements. Not going to treat him like just another troll. Actually regret calling him a dimwit. He will come around, once he sorts out his demons.
Come on, you can do better than this. I finally looked you up and you got 2^8 +5 comments. You can do much better than this. Why obsess with AI nutters, space idiots and Tesla fanbois?
Who is a bigger idiot, these nutjobs or the one with the mission to correct every nutjob on the net? Just chill. Why waste good time chasing these nutjobs.
The AWS is the only money making part of Amazon. If it is spun off, rest of Amazon will collapse.
Since Amazon retail competes with so many sectors and has announced it is going to get into banking, pharmacy, etc, many other companies loathe to use AWS. They are worried AWS would be able to hack in and peek into their data. Even if the data is really secure and secret, they hate giving money to a competitor. So if it is spun off, it might gain more customers and become even more profitable. But rest of Amazon has great brand name and loyalty, but very small profit potential. Its main appeal is low cost. So it can't raise prices all that easily.
The GP ~110010001000 is a bitter troll who naively believed the tesla shorting rumor sites and lost a bundle shorting Tesla. He/She/It is obsessed with Tesla and keeps posting shit. Even Rei does not post this much about Tesla.
Why should "Auto pilot" (or any other term) mean what this dimwit thinks it should mean, and not what the Tesla (or the seller) defines as its meaning?
Tesla called it auto pilot following the well established norms and standards of automobile advertisements. Like Chrysler called dumb cruise control auto pilot 60 years ago.
You think "auto pilot" should do "whatever the shit I think it should do". The pure stupidity on display here is yours.
Slashdot Mirror
World, is much much bigger than you. If you would not buy an EV, fine. No big deal, There are enough others who would.
Fact is millions of other people would switch, and that is a big enough market for EVs to thrive.
I am not an EV evangelist for environment reasons. I just want to deny the middle east their revenue source.
For complete discussion, millions of cars are not ever parked in electrified garages.
For every car that is not parked in a garage, there are 10 cars parked in garages. We will get that market first. That market is big enough for BEV to thrive even if we never ever solve the issue of street parkers.
Just think how many days the car sat in the garage overnight for more than 4 hours. That is enough time to put in 150 miles of charge. Every day you start with full tank, so you are like to start with 150 miles already. So charging time is NOT the issue for your day to day driving.
Long distance trips? Just think back. How many times in the last three years you drove more than 250 miles on a single day.. On those days, count the second and third filling you did. That is how often you would need "fast charge" or "super charge". It is not an issue at all.
EVs will sell as soon as they reach price parity. There will be no reason to buy more than one gas car per family as soon as price parity is reached. As people get used to the idea of never visiting a gas station for city driving, always having enough range in the car in the morning, they will resent breaking their routine for a fill up. All the 10 minutes and 15 minutes saved during the city driving weeks will be spent on long distance driving. It would be at the most 45 minutes longer than using a gas car that is all. Given the cost savings, lots of people will accept it.
But price parity must be achieved.
Gas car or battery car, same price, take your pick. Think of two questions. 1. will I pick the gas car? 2. How many will pick the gas car.
Amethyst was the most expensive gem in Europe for a while, more expensive than rubies and diamonds. Today you can buy a amethyst geode, several hundred pounds in weight, tastefully cut geode exposing the gem studded interior for a few hundred dollars in any natural curiosity store.
My 250HP Tesla 0 to 60 in 5 seconds. It is like getting gasoline at 75 cents a gallon. That is my running costs. You have no idea how cheap electrics are to run. Gasoline has to fall below 60 cents a gallon to match the running cost of BEV. It is the purchase price and lack of availability that is holding back BEV.
The interesting thing is that this is not going to be because of the whole 'green' thing.
You are 100% correct on this. Because tree hugging liberals ranting about fossil fuels evangelize so much about BEV, there is an impression it is for the "environmentally conscious people willing to sacrifice money and time and convenience". Nope. Not true at all. I am thankful for them for funding the early R&D and overpaying for their Tesla model S and X to make BEV practical.
Truth be told, I am one of them too, in a smaller degree, (I only overpaid for my Model 3 ). But BEVs will take over the world, and batteries will kill the oil industry, not because they are good for the environment, but because they are cheaper. It might even be possible batteries create toxic waste in manufacturing, recycling or retiring process. Still, if they are cheaper they will take over the world, despite all the protests by tree huggers and/or concern trollers bemoaning the pollution of battery making process.
for example because some can't charge at their homes?
True, some people can not charge at home. And some people will not buy pickup trucks. Does it mean there is no market for pickup trucks? The number of people who can charge at home will outnumber those who can't. The market will serve them.
The ICEV market is not a monolithic all or nothing affair. BEV will peel off customers. Initially it is the early adapters, tree huggers, acceleration fanatics, ... Then cost conscious people who can charge at home, if the price is right, As the BEV sales increases, more charging will develop. HOAs will relent when lots of the home owners are clamoring for charge points, Apartments will see a revenue stream selling parking spots with charging points ...
It is inevitable. The battery prices have been falling and have reached a tipping point. The battery pack cost estimate varies from 120 $/kWh to 150 $/kWh. (Battery cell prices range between 100 $./kWh to 130 $/kWh). The general consensus is when the battery pack costs 100 $/kWh the cost of electric power train (battery + motor + charger) will equal the cost of ICE power train (engine + transmission + emission control + gas tank). At that point BEV and ICEV will sell at the same price. BEV will cost three to five times less [FN1] compared to ICEV. At that point transition to BEV will be rapid.
People who have never driven BEV are misled by the lack of visible charging infrastructure compared to gas stations. Tesla super chargers few and far between. What they don't realize is every home, every electrical outlet is a gas station. Charging time does not matter. Cars sit idle all night long, enough time to charge. In fact BEV people feel ICEV fueling takes too much time, having to stop by at the gas station every week or so.
Also cars are the second most expensive thing bought by home owners, and the single most expensive thing bought by renters. When they see a big flux coming, things are unsettled, they post pone the decision to buy the next car. It will hurt ICEV companies a lot more than BEV companies.
But vehicles are just the beginning. There is no new breakthrough needed in batteries. The breakthrough needed is in manufacturing, industrial engineering, assembly lines for batteries, volume production, etc, all are known issues with known solutions. We know how to do this, we are just struggling to figure out how to finance this. When battery packs cost 80 $/kWh in 2022 all vehicles, from 18 wheelers to earth movers to train locomotives will run on batteries. Oil demand falling by 50% creating a glut and gasoline price falling to 1 $/gallon .. even that will not stem the tide. ICEV will be more expensive than battery. At 60 $/kWh we can store three days worth of electricity used by the entire grid in batteries. Solar and Wind will be enough and all the coal/gas/oil fired powerplants will go bust.
My friend works in a salt mine that ordered a 130 million dollar HVAC system because they are using diesel earth movers deep in the mine's confined spaces. In today's prices, you can buy 1 GWh of batteries, keep thm on 16 hour charge, 8 hour duty cycle, and run 40 earth movers, each using 500 HP motor operating 24/7. Only problem is 1 GWh of batteries is 2.5% of the world's battery making capacity! Look at the demand, look at the potential, the tipping point has been reached already. It is just a matter of ramping up the production volumes!
[FN1] BEV, Tesla model 3, 75 kWh for 310 miles, 1 kWh = 12 cents, 2.9 cents/mile. Compare to 250 HP BMW X3 25 mpg, 3 $/gal, 12 cents. Ratio = 4.1, plug in your numbers, ratio can down to 2.5 or go up to 6.
Privacy train has left the station ages ago. No body seems to give a damn. People casually take a picture and post and share everything, from what they eat to what they crap.
... How to guard against hackers.
Why create a throwaway login? Copy paste the text into google searcgh box and you click on the google link.
You are also correct about being rejected by consumers.
But, goal of Microsoft is not these consumers. It is to retain its grip on corporate IT. Their ChromeOS clone will have ActiveDirectory authentication built in. And it will be pitched to corporations.
And it might not do any better. But it will give the appearance of doing something etc till the stock options vest and the current crop of mismanagers to retire or cash out.
You are an anonymous Coward. He has level 35 achievements. Not going to treat him like just another troll. Actually regret calling him a dimwit. He will come around, once he sorts out his demons.
Who is a bigger idiot, these nutjobs or the one with the mission to correct every nutjob on the net? Just chill. Why waste good time chasing these nutjobs.
Best of luck buddy.
172 comments and still no "embrace, extend, extinguish" ?
Since Amazon retail competes with so many sectors and has announced it is going to get into banking, pharmacy, etc, many other companies loathe to use AWS. They are worried AWS would be able to hack in and peek into their data. Even if the data is really secure and secret, they hate giving money to a competitor. So if it is spun off, it might gain more customers and become even more profitable. But rest of Amazon has great brand name and loyalty, but very small profit potential. Its main appeal is low cost. So it can't raise prices all that easily.
So says someone who has posted more one liners on tsla threads than even Rei.
He is moron. You said so yourself. So why is it Tesla's fault? Its the moron's fault.
The GP ~110010001000 is a bitter troll who naively believed the tesla shorting rumor sites and lost a bundle shorting Tesla. He/She/It is obsessed with Tesla and keeps posting shit. Even Rei does not post this much about Tesla.
Why should "Auto pilot" (or any other term) mean what this dimwit thinks it should mean, and not what the Tesla (or the seller) defines as its meaning?
You think "auto pilot" should do "whatever the shit I think it should do". The pure stupidity on display here is yours.
Definitely it is a better auto. pilot. than this: Chrysler Auto Pilot. Circa 1958
Come on. Who writes these abstracts? Google Translate?