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Microsoft is Working On a New Iteration of Windows To Take On ChromeOS, Report Says (petri.com)
Petri's Brad Sams writes: For more than a year, we have been hearing about Windows Core OS and how it is a modern version of Windows. As Microsoft continues to build out the platform, it's time to take a look at what the secret project actually includes and how the company is positioning the platform. In Microsoft's feverish attempts to shove out insider builds at an impressive rate, the company doesn't always do a great job at scrubbing the finer details from the builds. Because of this, and some help from a couple insiders, I have been able to piece together what Lite is and where it's headed.
Microsoft is working on a new version of Windows that may not actually be Windows. It's currently called Lite, based on documentation found in the latest build, and I can confirm that this version of the OS is targeting Chromebooks. In fact, there are markings all over the latest release of the insider builds and SDK that help us understand where this OS is headed. If you have heard this before, it should sound a lot like Windows 10 S and RT; Windows 10 Lite only runs PWAs and UWP apps and strips out everything else. This is finally a truly a lightweight version of Windows that isn't only in the name. This is not a version of the OS that will run in the enterprise or even small business environments and I don't think you will be able to 'buy' the OS either; OEM only may be the way forward.
Microsoft is working on a new version of Windows that may not actually be Windows. It's currently called Lite, based on documentation found in the latest build, and I can confirm that this version of the OS is targeting Chromebooks. In fact, there are markings all over the latest release of the insider builds and SDK that help us understand where this OS is headed. If you have heard this before, it should sound a lot like Windows 10 S and RT; Windows 10 Lite only runs PWAs and UWP apps and strips out everything else. This is finally a truly a lightweight version of Windows that isn't only in the name. This is not a version of the OS that will run in the enterprise or even small business environments and I don't think you will be able to 'buy' the OS either; OEM only may be the way forward.
Wasn't it just in the last one or two years we heard Microsoft saying that Windows 10 was it - there basically wasn't going to be any new releases of Windows going forward, only iterative improvements on the existing product?
#DeleteChrome
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It was called Windows ARM or something.
And it failed miserably.
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This likely explains some of the motivation behind the news earlier today about Edge being replaced by a Chromium based Browser, and the MS contributions to the Chromium project.
First they replace Edge with Chromium. Then they replace the OS with a browser-based system.
I wonder if Microsoft is just going to survive off of it's cloud-based azure? They're doing LOTS of new work in that project.
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
maybe they will re-brand ChromeOS as Windows 11
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Microsoft always skating to where the puck was, never where it's going. No one who chooses to use Windows wants a dumbed-down ChromeOS clone. If they want ChromeOS they'll use the real thing not the shoddy imitation that's called Windows that isn't really Windows.
Yes, they're making the same mistake as Windows Phone. Instead of innovating something new, they're trying to imitate the competition long after the market is established and already saturated.
Too late for this MS. Think of something new- innovate instead.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Just give up, and have Windows Linux. re-skin the window manager, add some code to Wine for Windows apps, and be done with it.
Microsoft is realizing their model is not working.
Open Source stole their dinner [ server market ]
Open Source nibbled their lunch [ Browser Market ]
and now it's going after their breakfast and snacks [ Consumer OS ]
Microsoft has Office, to fall back on, and their compilers and debuggers.
Window's strength is binary compatibility, and all sorts of obscure stuff that just works. Open source can take a security hardened OS (OpenBSD?), stick a web browser on top of it, and boom, competitor!
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All current OSes are so obsolete in how they interact with the user. A "window" on a physical screen where user must click or touch to command the machine? It's time to rethink everything.
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I am reminded of the NetBook fad a decade ago. Cheap Low End laptops used mostly for low end users. Microsoft didn't have too much luck in that field, as most Netbook users gravitated towards Linux.
I don't see Chromebooks (which are Netbooks under a different name) getting big in MS territory. If you want windows, chances are you will be wanting to do some gaming, and you need more horse power.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
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I don't think Microsoft understands that ChromeOS is successful because it primarily brings the World Wide Web to the user via a small platform via the Chrome browser. Most of the user requirements are fulfilled using various web pages/services not through the software bundled into the OS.
ChromeOS is successful because of the browser integration, not because it's a new OS and I think that's where Microsoft is getting hung up.
If Microsoft really wanted to compete, it should be getting the smallest, tightest OS they have that can still run networking, create a full featured HTML5/WebKit compliant browser (which they should have done YEARS ago) and let users log in using their Microsoft accounts. Develop the user base, understand what customers want in terms of apps (ie Office) without charging for the privilege of helping Microsoft figure out what customers want and develop a product plan based on this.
Otherwise, it's going to be a molasses slow experience on systems that ChromeOS zips along with.
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
Since it's all that is for sale right now...
I wonder how much smaller it would be if you dump any backward compat with 32bit and lower (in other words, runs only on 64bit) dumped all the spyware/telemetery and associated programs needing that, ditched "apps" and the associated store, dropped down to one rendering engine (see previous article on Edge going bye bye) how much smaller and/or faster, you'd be able to make it?
Long time ago there was a thing called 98Lite, which was basically a stripped down version of windows 98 that ran pretty darned well on even very modest hardware.
I'd like to see something like that again...
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
Is this interesting for anyone or is this just marketing BS? Or are the people at Microsoft (and the insiders)really thinking they do something special and can't contain themselves?
You can't make any software project "lite" by stripping away parts. It has to be designed "lite" and then you add (removable) bloat.
You also cannot transform a tractor into a race car, but the other way around is very well doable.
"And Now... From the Folks who brought You "Windows ME" and Microsoft "Bob" ..."
I am reminded of the NetBook fad a decade ago. Cheap Low End laptops used mostly for low end users. Microsoft didn't have too much luck in that field, as most Netbook users gravitated towards Linux.
I recall the original eee PC running Linux, but I think over the life of the fad, most netbooks were sold running some form of Windows XP.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
More like "three strikes and you're out". (Yes, I know MS is still making tons of money. But as more consumers realize they are better off without Microsoft operating systems, MS is doomed to fail.)
When will they learn? They keep trying to make these Windows lite OS versions. What happens? It confuses the hell out of everyone because they think they are buying Windows and can run their Windows programs, but instead its some crap version which cannot do anything.
At that point, why in the hell would anyone buy it? Why not get an iPad or Android device where one can actually buy apps?
But yet, they just keep trying and trying.
Stick to "real" Windows MS.
Microsoft reacted to the NetBook fad by releasing a dirt cheap version of XP, limited to screen resolutions and memory sizes typically found in a netbook.
Microsoft might not have earned much with that, but they successfully beat back the threat of a major Linux invasion in that market.
C - the footgun of programming languages
windows RT 2 = epic fail
Perhaps they should work on a new iteration to take on their current steaming pile of data-mining crap, eh?
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Let's see
Win light Mac os
limited range of hardware Very Likely Yes
backwards compatible Very limited Yes
Store lock in ---------------- Yes NO
Supports TB / pci-e cards Maybe Yes
enterprise tools Seams to be NO Yes
Microsoft may just buy naming rights to the nhl Seattle team!
MS cannot innovate anymore, this is not exactly news. An old company run by people who cannot afford to alienate the investors. So is Apple, BTW. The next user OS will have to be revolutionary. The essence of a computer is that it can do really fast stuff that it has algorithms for, or at least instruction for generation such algorithms. Obviously a computer farm is much faster at processing data than a single machine. For this reason the next OS will be a hybrid portable/cloud OS. The best positioned companies in this field are Amazon. Microsoft, and IBM. The consumer end of the OS will need to include accurate speech recognition/synthesis features while still being compatible, where needed and upon demand, with "high-resolution" peripherals (keyboard, mouse, display...). The cloud side will have to provide a complex set of services, mostly AI-based, and be highly interconnected with similar systems.
It's about damn time.
and isp's will cap and fast lane the shit out users.
We need a working commercial OS again.
Everyone just thought it was a netbook replacement. It's come a long way.
use confusing naming schemes and licensing tiers
This IS the business model. So MANY distinctions-without-a-difference editions of the same thing, each with its own crazy math licensing rules and costs.
Everybody ends up buying up to avoid getting too little and winds up buying more than they actually wanted. It's weaponized information asymmetry.
So did I (the Jupiter version, 640x480 display), and I thought it was almost ideal for taking to meetings, if not for full desktop work. Just the basics, near instant wake-up, and an almost real keyboard (tab and ~/` misplaced). It's too bad that prohibitive licensing schemes and internal fighting pretty much killed WinCE. Looks like we're about to repeat the cycle.
it should sound a lot like Windows 10 S and RT; Windows 10 Lite only runs PWAs and UWP app
What?
+ license compliance audits that flag Linux systems due complex / hidden rules.
I find it very hard to believe that Microsoft is creating a low-end OS with Edge to compete with Chromebooks, just as they're abandoning Edge for Chromium on the desktop.
There will be widespread adoption of Linux desktop when a production fusion plant is built to generate electricity.
You heard it here first.
Indeed! Compatibility with Windows/x86-based software is pretty much the ONLY reason people still buy Windows and put up with M$'s shit-show. M$ cannot compete on raw merit alone. It's not in their DNA anymore. X-Box was their last non-compatibility-based hit.
Here is what M$ should do: create a new "GUI browser" standard to compete with the HTML stack. But, make it desktop-friendly and focus on CRUD and "productivity" mouse-based applications that don't want to live with the wasted screen space and limited UI widgets of Bootstrap-like frameworks. Build in standard widgets like data grids, tree browsers (File Explorer-like), combo boxes, MDI nested windows, etc. No more dependence on flaky JavaScript libraries for common GUI idioms.
Make an open-source GUI browser and allow forks to live so people don't fear M$ compatibility games. It's not guaranteed to work, but it would disrupt the browser market, giving MS a chance at a second life because M$ would be ahead of the curve for this new standard. If the current deck is not favoring you, then reshuffle it. There's a big need for better network-based productivity GUI's. HTML-based standards suck bigly for those, requiring too much code to fake it.
That's how you Make MS Great Again, Mr. Nadella.
Table-ized A.I.
Windows 10 IoT Core, an OS that was designed to run as the base for IoT devices. Minimum system requirements 768MB of RAM, 400MHz 3GB disk space, and a TPM chip.
I'm going to grab my popcorn. This should be good.
How is this different from Win10 Mobile, with Continuum? If they would update Edge on my phone, I would literally have this right now. Technically, some PWAs work; just not all the support is there in Edge Mobile. Otherwise, it only downloads apps fro the store; i.e. UWP. Some poor sods are still putting out security updates for W10M, so there is obviously a W10M 'team' with a manager. Maybe they just changed their name to Lite, to throw everyone into a tizzy.
It was already released and it was called Windows RT.
license compliance audits that flag Linux systems due complex / hidden rules.
Might those rules include, say, VFAT patents (before they expired) and exFAT patents (since then)?
Windows got the group defining the minimum spec for netbooks to up the CPU speed, HDD and memory space. Because Windows lite could not be cut back enough to fit in the designed spec at the time and the min spec MS got it changed to was *just* enough to make the Win7 lite version run under the increased spec.
Which increased the cost and reduced the battery life of the device (or it needed a bigger battery, increasing cost again as well as upping the weight), and caused the netbooks to become little more than crippled laptops for insignificantly less cash. Which killed the netbooks off.
Hence you don't find them any more (writing this on an eeePC seashell, ironically) and years later, chromebooks became a thing to sort of do the same as a netbook but for a higher price.
I postulate it'll still be heavily laden with stupid, useless, annoying features and cruft, with a badly-designed, obtuse user interface. More of the same ol' bullshit.
Now larger, heavier and less useful than any other smart phone on the market!
You're correct. They're following the the same path taken by Windows Phone, or whatever it was called. Same for RT and 10 S. They need to spend money making sure that semi annual updates of Windows 10 do not brick PCs.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
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We already have a production fusion plant. We just need to scale up the antennas to receive the power that it is transmitting.
I have never installed anything past Windows XP, and I'm now 100% Linux because Windows 7+ became so full of spyware and has it's own integrated MCP which bypasses all attempts to install CLU or TRON.
The joke is they're going to where ChromeOS is thought to be, not where it is now. It was originally a "secure" OS that you couldn't install software on that wasn't NaCl or HTML5. Now you can install Android apps and can - albeit this is not production ready in my opinion - install arbitrary GNU/Linux applications (yeah, sudo apt-get install libreoffice works, add your own repos, compile your own applications, etc.)
(What it is good at right now, perhaps better at than Windows, is web development. Install VSCode and Atom in your Penguin container, and then install whatever web stacks you want in custom containers running whatever LXD compatible operating system you want. So all of a sudden there's interest in high end Chromebooks.)
So Windows is going to be locked down, while Chromebooks look, within the next year or two, to become general purpose computers you can do whatever you want with.
And I'd make a guess that Locked Down Windows will still be less secure than ChromeOS. Because the amount of work needed to add the level of sandboxing and integrity checking needed to make Windows as secure is going to be very, very, high.
(The other question though is "What's the point?" Who is going to want to use locked down Windows? Nobody uses it because they like Edge, or because they're easy to administer, we all use it because of the extensive software base and the implications that has in terms of everyone being able to swap files with one another. Without the ability to install arbitrary software, Windows becomes a difficult to maintain unreliable unstable insecure operating system with quirks everyone hates.)
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I am reminded of the NetBook fad a decade ago. Cheap Low End laptops used mostly for low end users. Microsoft didn't have too much luck in that field, as most Netbook users gravitated towards Linux.
The first models, like the EeePC 701 included truly awful Linux distributions, and a manual that was mostly instructions on how to install Windows XP. I believe Linux Netbooks had an incredibly high return rate. Your best bet was to either install Windows XP on them, or another distribution (like EeeBuntu). I don't know why the Linux models didn't just ship with Ubuntu instead of an ugly bastard step-child of an operating system.
I believe including Linux was an act to pressure Microsoft to release low cost Windows licences. For the majority of the Netbook life, products were roughly: Windows XP Home or Windows 7 Starter, 1.6Ghz Atom or equivalent, 1GB RAM, 160GB Hard drive.
While the processor wasn't good for Crysis, it was adequate for surfing the net, watching movies, using office, remote desktop / SSH, etc. The hard drive was adequate for offloading photos from a digital camera while traveling. At the time they were good as low cost, fairly compact computing devices for simple tasks. They showed the untapped potential for such devices, which eventually morphed into Tablets and better smartphones.
Contrary to popular belief, Windows 7 Starter does not use any less resources than Home Premium or Professional, they just decontented the operating system as a means of differentiation at such a low cost.
The RAM could usually be upgraded to 2GB, and the hard drive could be easily upgraded to a larger one if you wanted to bring a larger one (like 1TB) if you wanted more storage.
I think there could be a market for a light, secure office 365 appliance.
Office365 is positioned as a premium counterpart to G-suite that integrates with your legacy Microsoft stuff. .. So why not have a chromebook counterpart?
They're out performing Apple in the market. Something to think about.
Life is not for the lazy.
It needs to be free (as in beer at least) otherwise why bother. I can't understand how they can charge for Windows now. Charging for support I get, but otherwise... nope.
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I have my mom's old Netbook, and I upgraded it to 2gb of memory and a 500g hard drive. It's still anemic, but it's useful for a few things.
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Any Microsoft OS that fails to run them will not succeed. Microsoft has to stop making "Chromy" OSes and focus on their enterprise needs.
Microsoft pioneered mobile. Windows Mobile from 2000 was far more capable than Apple iOS until maybe 2010. In many ways, it is still more capable. iOS is barely an operating system.
They simply lost vision after Gates stepped down.
The big thing that makes computers anemic is the web. Load a modern browser up and it's taking 500MB RAM.
Then there's the webpages. Content hasn't changed, but they've become bloated. From a recent post of mine:
If you're reading a news article (for example), requirements haven't really changed since print. You want some text, and a few images. Text is very bandwidth efficient, and the pictures you usually only glance at are 2.5"x1.5" and don't need to be super high res. Even if you have an 8k phone, you're scrolling by. Click to load a larger picture.
But webpages include bundled custom fonts you don't care about, 93 tracking JavaScript plugins for social media sites and ads, 15 JavaScript frameworks where a fraction of the framework is used, 16k resolution stock images, and videos that you don't care about that start playing.
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They didn't do shit. Linux failed all on it's own. The only people who want an ugly OS incompatible with everything else are already Linux zealots who hate anything Microsoft and are willing to compromise to prove it.
WinXX-x64 balready broke compatibility with old code; everyone with legacy code is stuck on WinXP32, or in some cases win7-x32.
That ship sailed, and is now sinking.
Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
So true regarding web bloat. The web needs a serious reboot. It wouldn't be that hard to write a new web browser that dumps all the bloat. The problem is getting all the web sites people want to visit to adopt this lightweight browser's reduced feature set. Even if you could do that, feature creep will eventually bring you right back to where we are today because people always want more...
Choromebook has eaten everyone's lunch in the K-12 market. Apple is now a non-player, as is Windows. The benefits of Chromebooks are they work, they have all the apps needed, they are secure, and Google manages updates and security fixes, and cost of entry is almost nothing. The cost benefits are just too great. Windows plan in the long run is to compete in the K-12 market. Too late and won't be done as well as Google.
First the Edge browser announces a Chrome backend, then Edge runs Chrome apps natively, then Edge runs Android apps.....and boom, Windows has millions of brand new apps and completes directly with Google's 2 OSs. Brilliant!
The devs don't care about fast loading or resource conservation as a metric. Even if they did they might be running some computing beast (nothing fancy, just macbookpro level with 16GB is huge enough) and very fast networking and so.. "works for me".
If wasting 100MB RAM and 500ms (time or CPU time) on the user's machine will possibly earn 0.1 cent and get them good marks on the "UX design" they'll do it.
Yep I still totally use my Zune...
It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
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Yep, Microsoft made the netbook experience so miserable, that netbooks became synonymous with crap.
Chromebooks are the modern equivalent of netbooks.
I swear someone at Microsoft didn't want to do a phone OS.
They had Windows Mobile, (2000)
Then you had to rewrite everything for Windows Phone 7-7.5 (2010)
Then you had to rewrite everything for Windows Phone 8 (2012)
Then you had to rewrite everything for Windows Phone 10 (2015)
Each of those 4 OS versions were completely different code. Though you could kind of kluge Windows Phone 8 applications to work on 10 with a bit of work and Microsoft saying that that wouldn't be supported for long
.
Honestly, Windows Phone was a nightmare for developers. An added "benefit" was that your Windows Phone 10 programs had to be made to run on Windows RT 10. I hear you saying, "But there was no Windows RT 10!" Windows RT 10 was originally scrapped before it was released, though obviously we are getting it under the Windows Lite name now. You had to make sure your app would scale for devices using Windows RT 10 though.
The problem with the initial Netbooks and nettops was the moronic decision of every company to try and roll their own Linux distro, which they usually abandoned in less than a year instead of standardizing around what was already the most popular and easiest to use for new users Ubuntu. I had a repair shop at the time and switched over dozens of these things to Ubuntu and maybe a ram upgrade and they suddenly stopped sucking.
Intel didn't help any stripping the power saving hardware from the N330 dual core 4 thread models as those paired with the Nvidia Nano chipset, which was also hard to come by made a very capable machine for the size and price point.
Things got even worse when Microsoft started mandating that they could only max out at 2GB or ram, IIRC only a 160GB hdd and had to have nothing faster than the Atom in order to get their XP Lite Home edition.
I think it was more about the price point. Netbooks were aimed at a market where a "regular" Windows Home license would have hurt competitiveness quite a bit due to its price.
So the makers of early netbooks went "hey, lets use Linux to cut the cost". Cue Microsoft making an even more crippled version of Windows XP and selling it cheap enough for the netbook market. User inertia did the rest.
C - the footgun of programming languages
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between companies. Only reason for this.
motherfuckingwebsite.com