whyfirefoxisblocked.com because microsoftpaidustothis.com is already taken... Screw 'em, not like there is a web site shortage out there.
Re:Turns out the whole reason for the attack was..
on
Ubuntu Servers Hacked
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· Score: 1
Interesting details xeno, that fills in the historical gaps I missed when I left Ubuntu in early 2006, mostly due to the board riots. I could not agree more with your assessment of the board mods, disagreeing is one thing, deleting valid portions of topics is out of line.
Most medium and large companies don't risk pirating software, at least not on a major scale or for any kind of significant deployment. The reason the vast majority of companies don't sue for F/OSS is because PHBs have a strange perception that buying commercial software gives them someone to hold accountable. They think that if it breaks beyond the skill of their I.T. staff that MS or Intuit or Adobe have some tech support genius who can get it fixed, or that they can then turn around and sue MS/Intuit/Adobe for not providing that level of support. Of course we all know that every commercial application out there states very early on in the license that no such warranty exist, but until the management at most companies acknowledges this MS will have an edge.
In regards to home users, not really much do discuss; most believe that MS Office is part of the OS and don't know where apps start and the OS ends, this will be a tough group to educate but the vast majority aren't pirates and just live with what their OEM puts on their PC. That article was nothing more than a perfect example of a classic Dvorak troll.
Re:Turns out the whole reason for the attack was..
on
Ubuntu Servers Hacked
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· Score: 1
You aren't too sensitive, but you did ignore the examples I gave in both post. And up until last week the most frequent answer on the Ubuntu forums for many questions was "use Automatix". The only way you can say find trolling is if you completely ignore the rest of my post and seize on a single sentence.
Re:Turns out the whole reason for the attack was..
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Ubuntu Servers Hacked
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· Score: 3, Insightful
See, this is what I'm talking about, you automatically go on defensive if anyone has any honest criticism of Ubuntu. I think I stated some of my issues pretty clearly, but Ubuntu supporters now have thinner skin than Apple users in the 90s. I'm a huge fan of a simple and clean Gnome interface, but I'm against trying to bury the CLI and refusing to learn how to do things properly. I'm against mindlessly installing stuff via Automatix (especially close source and binary blobs) without honestly understanding what you are doing and what the implications are (note several Ubuntu devs agree with this point).
Again, I am pointing at the community more than the developers, who have provided a great distro that has provided a much needed kick in the pants to other distros to improve their usability. Fedora is my favorite example, and my distro of choice again, since they had to face some stiff competition to stay relevant.
Ubuntu was about a clean interface with best of breed apps, solid documentation and a community that balanced ease of use with best practices. When someone wandered into the forums with a "noob" question we avoided the "RTFM newb-sauce" stuff and helped them, as well as re-enforcing best practices and linking where to get better information. We didn't point them to untested scripts or recommend subverting security for ease of use, but that is a regular event these days. Shuttleworth wanted "free as in speech" software that was "free as in beer" for everyone, but now to court Windows users he considers installing binary blobs and distributing closed source software? The "Unofficial Ubuntu FAQ" used to handle this stuff very well while not polluting (or introducing possible legal issues) to the distro. I recall Shuttleworth at Debian conferences with his hat in his hand explaining how he wants to help and work with the community, but if you mention this on the Ubuntu forums you have people suggesting that they don't need Debian or the GNU tools? This is an ignorant and arrogant user base that needs to be educated, and in some instances policed.
The original intent of Ubuntu was great, it just needs to get back on course. I much prefer apt to yum, I hope this wakes up the right people and I will gladly give Ubuntu a shot again.
Re:Turns out the whole reason for the attack was..
on
Ubuntu Servers Hacked
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· Score: 1
True, but it has gone a little out of balance, it walked a fine line in the early days but has gone off the "ease of use" cliff lately. This is mostly a community issue and can be steered back to the right place with some leadership. You can balance an easy introduction and not try to AOL-ify Linux.
Turns out the whole reason for the attack was...
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Ubuntu Servers Hacked
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· Score: 5, Interesting
to replace the horrid orange and brown default themes.
I used to be an ardent Ubuntu supporter but since Dapper and the wider adoption there has been too much emphasis on making things more Windows-like and less on best practices throughout the Ubuntu community (note I said the community, not the developers). Stuff like Automatix and the general feeling that any script that or line of code that is posted on the Ubuntu forums is guaranteed safe has led to lax standards. I've brought this up a couple times and any valid discussion quickly descends into a flame-fest and the mods (rightly so) lock it down.
The Ubuntu community has bent over backwards so far to prove they can include everyone they lost site of many of the things that make Linux a better choice for many people; time to get back to fundamentals and best practices, the sooner the better. Stop worrying about besting Windows at every silly thing (ahem, desktop transparency), stop trying to include aunt Tilly (who is never going to "switch" anyway) and remember that some things take more effort but are often worth it.
I use Google for every Yahoo service out there (search, mail, new, chat, etc...) while my wife has stuck with Yahoo for mail, chat and news, but uses Google for even the most simple search for uncluttered and generally more useful results. Additionally, while Yahoo Mail is visually much improved, there (from what she has told me) has been an extra layer of clutter added that she despises and is getting ready to give Gmail a shot. So I guess it depends on who the respondents were in TFA, but there is an anecdotal rebuttal of the highest caliber.
I would be more apt to use Yahoo for some stuff on occasion, but just like MSN, entering that URL delivers an annoying array of flash ads and overbearing design.
"There is NO way they will ever get the ubuntu folks to play ball."
Are you ignoring recent comments that Shuttleworth made saying he wouldn't rule out working with MS? He might not play patent ball, but don't be shocked if some other deal comes up eventually. http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/06/mark_shu ttlewor.html
When I say that we can't drive the industry forward being entirely focussed on aunt Tilly this goes for any OS. What we have now is pretty usable for those who put even a tiny amount of effort in, I say we continue working on ease of use, but consider that sometimes the easy stuff gets broken on the way to better stuff. The PC isn't a VCR and we don't need to proceed as if it is one.
And of course I wouldn't state that Linux is the bleeding edge of desktop computing, did I imply that? If so, not intended, but I contend it's a better desktop than it is given credit for.
I think the point was (although I wasn't clear, thinking faster than I could type) is that gamers can exist on Linux and we would have more games if we get more desktops.
I'll assume you haven't tried Apt or Yum (which has gotten better in the last year but still isn't Apt), or that rm -Rf seems hard to you.
Additionally, that simplicity you mention in Windows is a facade at best; the registry is a swamp and DLL-hell isn't completely eliminated yet. Yes, dependencies suck, but in general you get list of what files you are missing and with a little work you are in business. And thanks to the massive amounts of work Ubuntu and Fedora have put in, dep-hell ain't what it used to be. Yes, installation has a long way to go for less skilled users, but it still isn't enough of a reason to cede the market permanently to MS.
We cannot possibly drive the state of desktop computing forward always worrying about aunt Tilly; and if you really loved aunt Tilly you'd get her a Mac and she wouldn't need your help, you could then dedicate yourself to learning how to properly support here should she switch to Linux.
The gaming community isn't really that important to computing as a whole, and with a little work (as Ubuntu and Fedora have proven) there is little to installing video drivers now. Simplifying game installs would take a little work, but MS going away, or gamers going elsewhere to get their fix; not the end of the world.
Indeed, if all you do is collect a paycheck, who gives a fuck is the correct answer. But if you have a good/solid/supportable/cost-effective/etc... solution in place, you should give a fuck and you should make sure those points are heard.
I don't really feel like advocating the best solution is "forcing" anything on people, but PHBs with no technical background forcing a shop to switch to MS products because some a-hole sales rep bought him a steak and round of golf might be.
But by all means, if apathy is carrying you along to a place you want to be, carry on. I'm not saying the OP should walk out if they don't take his opinions (and I'm sure he isn't alone in a LAMP operation) seriously, but just shrugging your shoulders and throwing out work you have already done to satisfy a know-nothing PHB is, to speak in terms you understand, fucking stupid.
The point of Ubuntu was to strike the proper balance between that ease of use and solid technology. Stuff like Automatix is the complete opposite of that notion. Additionally, it is the hard work of the most detail oriented technical people in the Linux community, the Debian developers, that make Ubuntu even possible.
was the way the Ubuntu community is currently leaning on stuff like this (and the envy installers, and a few other items). The quality of HOW-TOs and user created documentation has plummeted since Dapper Drake and there is little interest in the community to acknowledge this. Instead of answering questions and fixing problems a lot of the community has taken to relying on stuff like this; this doesn't teach the user or provide feedback for developers. In the rush to be all inclusive and the "everyman" distribution Ubuntu's community has dinged it's technical image in the eyes of some users. I still think Ubuntu is great and I'm glad someone with some technical weight is making these points. I hope I don't have to point out that I am not condemning all of the Ubuntu community or the many fine contributions a lot of people at Canonical, Debian or the Linux community at large is providing.
The core value of making Linux easier to manage for the masses is a great cause and you can see many distros making huge gains in usability thanks to the popularity of Ubuntu. That said, the current state of the community and user made docs has gone down over the last year, let's hope comments like this turn it around as I really miss my apt-get (and yes, I know there is an apt tool for RPM distros, but when in Rome...).
I can reach for issues too, but in all honesty that isn't the norm for a vast majority of companies. And in a short amount of time those kinks will be worked out, just like any other new application introduced into a workgroup environment.
This sounds like a standard Windows admin reply, gotta' protect the job. OOo has no issue with.doc so that is a non-issue. While OOo Calc isn't quite as full featured as Excel, and please try to be honest here, those missing features only matters to a handful of financial people at any company while the rest of the company does very basic sum formulas and make list. So while that handful might need Excel, the other 97.5% of the company can easily get by on OOo.
Standardized desktops/interfaces are far easier to maintain on Linux than any flavor of Windows, Active Directory and GPOs are nice but end up being quicksand for inept admins (the vast majority of Windows admins),etc...
The only real issue comes down to training of some less computer savvy employees; any Windows "power user" can adapt virtually any task in Gnome or KDE with little effort, and have less chance of trashing their workstation in the process. MS knows this so the spread the FUD in regards to compatibility and then toss in dollar amounts centered around re-training an entire staff. Now the MS sales person has their attention as this "free" software now has a price tag (albeit grossly mis-represented)so all that remains is for his regional sales manager to swoop in with massive discounts to close the deal.
Of course in the rush to take the carrot MS is dangling they forget about the total freedom, better security and open formats that will protect their data long term. They forget the Vista was extremely late and requires as much re-orientation for those same less savvy users as adapting to a Linux desktop would. They forget that Office 2007 threw out the interface everyone was trained on and that will cost money as well; not only retraining even the more skilled users but in upgrading your whole staff as the changes in file format (and those less savvy users who forget to save in Office 2000 compatibility mode) that marches your whole company lockstep toward new desktops.
At this point the issue isn't the shortcomings of the Linux desktop (of which there are many, but no more than Windows and in some ways, far less), but the short sighted managers (and specifically) the PHBs in I.T. who don't base their decisions on the best technology but instead base them on the path of least resistance.
No double standard, Blizzard sucks for doing this as well, one of the reasons I left WoW. Additionally, Blizzard isn't re-inventing Bittorrent or possibly slipping in a proprietary format. There is quite a bit of difference.
I would also contend that Blizzard has a better security record than MS, and while not spotless, a better record in regards to customer rights and privacy.
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whyfirefoxisblocked.com because microsoftpaidustothis.com is already taken... Screw 'em, not like there is a web site shortage out there.
Interesting details xeno, that fills in the historical gaps I missed when I left Ubuntu in early 2006, mostly due to the board riots. I could not agree more with your assessment of the board mods, disagreeing is one thing, deleting valid portions of topics is out of line.
While some of what you say is true, there is something very wrong with the purchasing department having any sway over technical decisions.
In regards to home users, not really much do discuss; most believe that MS Office is part of the OS and don't know where apps start and the OS ends, this will be a tough group to educate but the vast majority aren't pirates and just live with what their OEM puts on their PC. That article was nothing more than a perfect example of a classic Dvorak troll.
You aren't too sensitive, but you did ignore the examples I gave in both post. And up until last week the most frequent answer on the Ubuntu forums for many questions was "use Automatix". The only way you can say find trolling is if you completely ignore the rest of my post and seize on a single sentence.
Again, I am pointing at the community more than the developers, who have provided a great distro that has provided a much needed kick in the pants to other distros to improve their usability. Fedora is my favorite example, and my distro of choice again, since they had to face some stiff competition to stay relevant.
Ubuntu was about a clean interface with best of breed apps, solid documentation and a community that balanced ease of use with best practices. When someone wandered into the forums with a "noob" question we avoided the "RTFM newb-sauce" stuff and helped them, as well as re-enforcing best practices and linking where to get better information. We didn't point them to untested scripts or recommend subverting security for ease of use, but that is a regular event these days. Shuttleworth wanted "free as in speech" software that was "free as in beer" for everyone, but now to court Windows users he considers installing binary blobs and distributing closed source software? The "Unofficial Ubuntu FAQ" used to handle this stuff very well while not polluting (or introducing possible legal issues) to the distro. I recall Shuttleworth at Debian conferences with his hat in his hand explaining how he wants to help and work with the community, but if you mention this on the Ubuntu forums you have people suggesting that they don't need Debian or the GNU tools? This is an ignorant and arrogant user base that needs to be educated, and in some instances policed.
The original intent of Ubuntu was great, it just needs to get back on course. I much prefer apt to yum, I hope this wakes up the right people and I will gladly give Ubuntu a shot again.
True, but it has gone a little out of balance, it walked a fine line in the early days but has gone off the "ease of use" cliff lately. This is mostly a community issue and can be steered back to the right place with some leadership. You can balance an easy introduction and not try to AOL-ify Linux.
I used to be an ardent Ubuntu supporter but since Dapper and the wider adoption there has been too much emphasis on making things more Windows-like and less on best practices throughout the Ubuntu community (note I said the community, not the developers). Stuff like Automatix and the general feeling that any script that or line of code that is posted on the Ubuntu forums is guaranteed safe has led to lax standards. I've brought this up a couple times and any valid discussion quickly descends into a flame-fest and the mods (rightly so) lock it down.
The Ubuntu community has bent over backwards so far to prove they can include everyone they lost site of many of the things that make Linux a better choice for many people; time to get back to fundamentals and best practices, the sooner the better. Stop worrying about besting Windows at every silly thing (ahem, desktop transparency), stop trying to include aunt Tilly (who is never going to "switch" anyway) and remember that some things take more effort but are often worth it.
Guess you've never heard of supporting a less offensive/intrusive product?
I would be more apt to use Yahoo for some stuff on occasion, but just like MSN, entering that URL delivers an annoying array of flash ads and overbearing design.
Are you ignoring recent comments that Shuttleworth made saying he wouldn't rule out working with MS? He might not play patent ball, but don't be shocked if some other deal comes up eventually. http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/06/mark_shu ttlewor.html
Take it one step further, your grandma can't fix Windows problems either, so why bother trying to tailor things for her?
And of course I wouldn't state that Linux is the bleeding edge of desktop computing, did I imply that? If so, not intended, but I contend it's a better desktop than it is given credit for.
I think the point was (although I wasn't clear, thinking faster than I could type) is that gamers can exist on Linux and we would have more games if we get more desktops.
Additionally, that simplicity you mention in Windows is a facade at best; the registry is a swamp and DLL-hell isn't completely eliminated yet. Yes, dependencies suck, but in general you get list of what files you are missing and with a little work you are in business. And thanks to the massive amounts of work Ubuntu and Fedora have put in, dep-hell ain't what it used to be. Yes, installation has a long way to go for less skilled users, but it still isn't enough of a reason to cede the market permanently to MS.
We cannot possibly drive the state of desktop computing forward always worrying about aunt Tilly; and if you really loved aunt Tilly you'd get her a Mac and she wouldn't need your help, you could then dedicate yourself to learning how to properly support here should she switch to Linux.
The gaming community isn't really that important to computing as a whole, and with a little work (as Ubuntu and Fedora have proven) there is little to installing video drivers now. Simplifying game installs would take a little work, but MS going away, or gamers going elsewhere to get their fix; not the end of the world.
why use MSN at all?
I don't really feel like advocating the best solution is "forcing" anything on people, but PHBs with no technical background forcing a shop to switch to MS products because some a-hole sales rep bought him a steak and round of golf might be.
But by all means, if apathy is carrying you along to a place you want to be, carry on. I'm not saying the OP should walk out if they don't take his opinions (and I'm sure he isn't alone in a LAMP operation) seriously, but just shrugging your shoulders and throwing out work you have already done to satisfy a know-nothing PHB is, to speak in terms you understand, fucking stupid.
The core value of making Linux easier to manage for the masses is a great cause and you can see many distros making huge gains in usability thanks to the popularity of Ubuntu. That said, the current state of the community and user made docs has gone down over the last year, let's hope comments like this turn it around as I really miss my apt-get (and yes, I know there is an apt tool for RPM distros, but when in Rome...).
I can reach for issues too, but in all honesty that isn't the norm for a vast majority of companies. And in a short amount of time those kinks will be worked out, just like any other new application introduced into a workgroup environment.
Standardized desktops/interfaces are far easier to maintain on Linux than any flavor of Windows, Active Directory and GPOs are nice but end up being quicksand for inept admins (the vast majority of Windows admins),etc...
The only real issue comes down to training of some less computer savvy employees; any Windows "power user" can adapt virtually any task in Gnome or KDE with little effort, and have less chance of trashing their workstation in the process. MS knows this so the spread the FUD in regards to compatibility and then toss in dollar amounts centered around re-training an entire staff. Now the MS sales person has their attention as this "free" software now has a price tag (albeit grossly mis-represented)so all that remains is for his regional sales manager to swoop in with massive discounts to close the deal.
Of course in the rush to take the carrot MS is dangling they forget about the total freedom, better security and open formats that will protect their data long term. They forget the Vista was extremely late and requires as much re-orientation for those same less savvy users as adapting to a Linux desktop would. They forget that Office 2007 threw out the interface everyone was trained on and that will cost money as well; not only retraining even the more skilled users but in upgrading your whole staff as the changes in file format (and those less savvy users who forget to save in Office 2000 compatibility mode) that marches your whole company lockstep toward new desktops.
At this point the issue isn't the shortcomings of the Linux desktop (of which there are many, but no more than Windows and in some ways, far less), but the short sighted managers (and specifically) the PHBs in I.T. who don't base their decisions on the best technology but instead base them on the path of least resistance.
I would also contend that Blizzard has a better security record than MS, and while not spotless, a better record in regards to customer rights and privacy.
DING! DING! DING! Someone get's it, I wish I had some mod points today...
Well I guess that ansswers that, so now MS just has to find a former employee to fill every CIO seat in the world and they are all set...