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Microsoft Fracturing the Open-Source Community
TechGeek sends us to eWeek, where Mark Shuttleworth is quoted to the effect that Microsoft has succeeded in fracturing the Linux and open-source community with its patent indemnity agreements. Quoting: "Microsoft's strategy was to drive a wedge into the open-source community and unsettle the marketplace, Shuttleworth said. He also took issue with the Redmond, Wash., software maker for not disclosing the 235 of its patents it claims are being violated by Linux and other open-source software. 'That's extortion and we should call it what it is,' he said." Shuttleworth added, "I don't think this will end well for the companies that slipped up and went down that road."
Dear Mr. Gates: Bring it. Your Loving - OSS Community
Microsoft forked the Open Source Community. Motherforkers.
Shuttleworth should have known this before stating it
Ubuntu will go on. SuSE will go on. Redhat will go on. Microsoft will go on.
Extortion. That's what I've been saying all along.
I think what the open source community needs is a patent troll. Hey, SCO's looking to get bought out about now, huh? Maybe with the help of our billionaire friend here and some help from IBM, we could buy SCO and then turn Microsoft's dog against it. That's right. Have SCO sue Microsoft for patent infringement. And, oh, yeah, didn't SCO make some little known Linux distro? Maybe we could taunt them into countersuing and they'd be forced to reveal at least some of those supposed '235 patents'.
Unless it's all complete BS, like I've been saying all along...
My blog
The Linux Community was quite capable of indulging in ridiculously petty schisms, flamewars, arguments and
bickering before Microsoft got involved. Ever since someone noticed the GPL and BSD licenses were different, there's been 3000GW of heat produced by zealots and pragmatists alike (and almost no light).
This is nothing new. Haven't you ever read debian-legal?
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
I generally think that the open-source community does this fine without anyone's help. Microsoft saw the opportunity to use it's weakness and exploited it.
Welcome to capitolism.
All I know to say is that when Dr. Faust made his deal with the devil it didn't work out well for him either. Faust
load "$",8,1
Unlimited growth == Cancer.
*cough*
OpenSSH
*cough*
or was your post sarcasm? In which case, my appologies.
34486853790
Connection too slow for X forwarding? Try "ssh -CX user@host"
One problem that the OSS community suffers from is that there are many licensing forms, and that some are in conflict with what's suitable for some end-users. It is also a challenge to make money from OSS solutions unless you have a good model available. And there are a large number of OSS projects that are sponsored in one way or another.
Anyway - one must recognize that the view of having source code as a valuable asset is about to decay. The source code is just a tool - like a hammer or a screwdriver - that allows users to manage their information. The code in itself is useful to some extent, but the knowledge of how to use it us far more important - and here it's possible to make money even in the future.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
yea? this is a "community" that argues over everything as it is, just look at all the "fractures" over KDE vs. Gnome...
Check out last year's comment I made on the subject. The whole thing was done just to make us have arguments. Can we learn from history, so as not to repeat it?
Divide and conquer is an age old tactic. Open Source is meant to help us divide and yet still cooperate to use our separate works together, but MS is trying to get us to divide and argue amongst each other so that we no longer cooperate but stand divided on what MS is trying to make into an issue. Come on guys, MS walks in, saying "OK, half you guys get over here, and half you guys get over there because we say so. Hey hey hey, ubuntu guys, check out the way those Novell guys are looking at you...." etc. And it's like we're falling for it.
It all boils down to the fact that the software is not "under" any kind of agreement except the GNU GPL. We all know the patents are crap otherwise they would be disclosed. We all know patents do not even matter, otherwise MS (and any others who would want to squeeze GNU/Linux for some cash) would have made their move by now. All they're doing is prodding us and watching which way we squirm. Why should we squirm? Just get back to using FLOSS, nothing's changed. Except that maybe we're a lot bigger now and they're more scared.
Twinstiq, game news
And has been for quite a while. Shops I know of who are not already utilizing Open Source are moving there as quickly as possible. Management realizes the value of having some control over the code is a good thing.
There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
Not saying that articles shouldn't be posted because they should. However patent issues have created such a muck in software I doubt we'll ever be able to work out all the issues. It's almost unworthy of reporting anything having to do with patent related issues. *please please go away 800 lb patent gorilla in the middle of the room*
For some reason I refuse to use either spell check or the spacebar properly.
Psh. Please...
KDE v GNOME
vi v emacs
Linux v BSD
Qt v gtk v tcl/tk v Swing v raw X calls
O(1) scheduler v Completely Fair Scheduler
GPLv2 v GPLv3 v BSD license
stuffing v potatoes
Like the open-source world needs help in becoming fractured. We're perfectly good at doing that ourselves, thank you very much.
Microsoft are doing what they do best, divide and conquer, with FUD and money. The good news is that by attacking the open source community, they have shifted into "FIGHT" phase (ignore, mock, fight, lose, as Gandhi said). Microsoft will not win, for the simple reason that the open source community is unlike any business they have crushed before.
We can't be divided, we are already utterly fragmented and internecine. Our strength is that we can never be absorbed; once open (and especially if GPLd) the code can never be killed.
Microsoft will try, and try, and try to divide the FOSS community, and each time they'll just make it stronger. Eventually the attempts will change Microsoft; the only real way it can fight and beat FOSS is to become FOSS.
Nothing Microsoft can do, no amount of money, patent blackmail, FUD, ISO corruption and bribery, not even murder and assassination, can stop the Community, because FOSS is not a business, it is a better technology, and like MSN/1.0 in 1995, where Microsoft thought, "let's beat the Internet by making our own private network", you cannot fight better technology. You use it, or your competitors do, and either way it survives.
Of course, in the meantime, Microsoft can and will cause a lot of pain and damage and destroy many careers and corrupt many officials, and mis-educate millions of young people. It's very sad. But in the long term, makes no difference.
My blog
I will say this, all the companies that did this agreement will end up broke. I got so mad over linspire's agreement with microsoft. I then switched to Ubuntu. I just cant trust them to not compromise my system. why the didnt they learn from sco
... but (quoting Bender of Futurama) the X in the middle makes eXtortion sound so cool. He just couldn't resist!
I would like to die like my grandfather did - sleeping. And not screaming in terror, like his passengers.
The "petty schisms" are all silly and the free software world has gone from strength to strength anyway. Free software encourages people to fork and merge, so disagreements are really a strength because the good results are always picked back up.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Linux, Apache, PostgreSQL, and PHP also among the list of projects not using GPLv3 that could be considered 'core.'
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
It's not like we weren't fractured along the lines of...
- Vi vs EMACS
- ((Linux Vs FreeBSD) Vs NetBSD) vs OpenBSD 'cause Theo's a dick
- RMS vs Linus
- GNOME vs KDE
- C programmers vs everybody
- PERL vs sanity
etc...
the only thing everybody allegedly had in common was it was everyone vs Microsoft and/or closed source software in general - but even that was never true. There seems to be some romanticizing about this alleged "community." To be fair, I felt it until about 2002... then things started bloating and it became all about "market share" and legal wrangling rather than enjoying ourselves and making computers do cool tricks for each other.
oh well.
We call this game "See What You Made Me Do". It's no more convincing from Shuttleworth than it is from my nine-year-old grandson.
I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
The Linux Community was quite capable of indulging in ridiculously petty schisms, flamewars, arguments and bickering before Microsoft got involved.
Agreed- and after skimming the entire article, I couldn't find any assertions as to what the supposed split is (does he really think that *anyone* cares except some gullible executives?), what projects it has negatively affected, and so on. No claims about X% of corporations going back to Windows/Solaris/MacOS X, nothing.
It's Shuttleworth simply running off at the mouth, and his comments help lead credence to Microsoft's trolling. Seriously, people. Stop giving MS all this press and attention. The more people hysterically waving their arms, the more people that will actually start to believe it.
Please help metamoderate.
Open Source is the community. As long as the game is on our field, Mr. Gates does not stand a chance. Let him pull the game on to his field, and he will have a chance at winning. Don't fall for it folks! Stand together, and we will defeat the evil empire.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
..they were already fractured. Microsoft just gave them enough rope to hang themselves with. If you're going to compete with Microsoft, you had better bring your A game.
Microsoft has not, cannot, and hasn't the political will to take on the Linux community directly.
Many people have told them directly, and in no uncertain terms, so sue me. The principal of estoppel says that Microsoft will get into hot water unlike any it has ever known should it open the pandora's box of patent litigation against the F/OSS community.
Shuttleworth dances with the devil. No wonder he's hot under the collar.
Linux isn't fractured. Linux isn't hurt. Linux development and FOSS will naturally evolve. It grows stronger. It is principled, where Microsoft certainly is specifically interested solely in shareholder return. Let's see, Linux has been successfully sued how many times? How many countries has busted Linux for restraint of trade and so on? How many attorney generals have sued Linux? Now show me the assets Microsoft gets by suing Linux. There is no Linux; there are multiple OS kernels, and a freighter full of GNU and GPL's apps. There are no assets. There ARE NO VIOLATORS. The lineage of what Linux has become has been more than adequately outlined in multiple different litigations by multiple reference-able authors.
That's why the SCO-IBM litigation farce was underwritten by Microsoft (and others) and why it's so flimsy. Shuttleworth needs to re-examine his motives. Certainly a corp as large as Micorosft can make anyone quake. So can several quarters of very negative revenues make Microsoft change its tune.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
Before Microsoft tried the whole "patent indemnification" trick the community was less cohesive about these important issues to Free Software.
Now, after MS has made patent agreements with several companies, GPLv3 has been released, and several companies have explicitly REFUSED to sign such patent agreements with MS, the community is more cohesive -- more understanding of the importance of Free Software and in agreement that signing such patent indemnification agreements with Microsoft is a Bad Idea(tm).
As the dust settles, there are splits: Novell sits alongside Microsoft. Alongside the FSF we see Redhat, Ubuntu, Debian, and many others.
I'm excited that major vendors such as Dell and Lenovo are offering GNU/Linux pre-installed on their machines. By supporting such vendors, the Free Software community can show them that a strong demand for GNU/Linux exists. Unfortunately Lenovo will be pre-installing SuSE (from Novell) on their machines, and I encourage all of you geeks out there to WRITE to Lenovo and request that instead of SuSE they pre-install a distribution that respects Free Software such as Redhat or Ubuntu. Similarly, write to Dell and tell them that you STRONGLY appreciate the fact that they chose Ubuntu as their GNU/Linux distribution.
So to sum it up:
Keep on using the software, spend your money in support of these companies, and preach the good word of Free Software.
Peace. Love. Linux.
coding is life
I'm pretty sure linux has fragmented itself. GPL3 will even further fragment linux.
Heh, that article was painful to read. QQ more, noob.
Something about Microsoft's pronouncements that Linux developers (or even users) are violating intellectual property rights, brings up the issue of slander, (or libel). If they are saying we're all crooks, they should prove it in a court of law, or keep their mouths shut.
Honestly, the blame is not Microsoft's. It is the community. OSS under GPL3 is fast approaching the stance of the Catholic Church as recently expounded by the Pope. In otherwords, "its all or nothing", "you're either with us, or against us", and so forth.
GPL2 was fine, the lessers are fine. But, brow beating projects into GPL3 is going to make the community rebel, and these people are all about rebellion.
The split is not happening because of MS, it is because of RMS, all holiness to his name.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
But Enderle has hooks into ZD and eWeek. Why would they publish an interview with Shuttleworth? One reason only: they're gloating.
PHP (or any other scripting language) is a too much of a niche to be very relevant here. As long as enterprise-critical projects (like Samba) are moving to GPL3, and Novell is targeting the enterprise, then the new GPL will be tested... hopefully soon.
Don't bother - that was such an obvious troll it's unreal.
Doesn't much matter what happens with the Linux kernel anyhow - much of the userland (including nice things like glibc and gcc) will be GPLv3 if they're not already. And they are major work to replace.
You forgot: Less filling vs. tastes great
How does one sue Linux. It is a piece of software. That is like asking how many times Windows XP was sued, or who sued Notepad.
I sent them money for one of their lovely Desktops with pre-installed Ubuntu. I already had an older P-III running Ubuntu nicely, but wanted to vote with my wallet. That core2 Duo with 3 Gigs of RAM runs Ubuntu extra nicely. :D
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
It makes sense that Microsoft would try to turn the fractious and already divisive nature of at least the older elements of Linux's userbase against itself. It isn't as though such an activity would be terribly difficult, either.
This is another part of the reason why I view the Linux "community" as such a toxic, virulent sociological sickness. It's because things like this effort on Microsoft's part demonstrate that, while Linux advocates can talk about the community valuing unity to the degree that they do, that's all such talk is; talk. Linux users are a lot quicker to shun each other for imagined violations of Stallmanite philosophy than they are to genuinely stand together against a common enemy. This is easy for Microsoft to see, and in conflict, it is customary to attempt to capitalise on the enemy's weakness. Sun Tzu also wrote that one of the most important things in war is to divide the enemy wherever possible, and to prevent the enemy from forming alliances with anyone.
Microsoft signs one of these agreements with Novell or whoever else, and it wins in two ways. It wins by potentially driving said company out of business, because of said company no longer being able to sell its' distribution, and it also wins by making sure that members of the community are too busy fighting each other to be able to do anything else, because of splits between those who still want to keep using said companies' distros and those who think it is wrong to do so. So they can sign these agreements, and then merely stand back to observe the fireworks. You yourselves do the rest.
The only time I'm ever going to see the Linux community as being a good thing is when said community genuinely starts behaving like one. That means getting some basic maturity. It also means that if someone is doing what you believe is the wrong thing, that rather than shunning that person at the first sign of infraction, you instead at least initially attempt to talk to the person about what it is that they're doing, and also that in such situations you also check your own assumptions. Most importantly, the howling, red eyed zealotry needs to go.
Want to start beating Microsoft, Linux users? Stop thinking and acting like religious fanatics, and in general, grow the hell up. Right now, you're being played like a violin, and if you want that to continue, just keep doing more of the same.
So maybe you sue Novell. Oops, can't do that.
Or maybe you sue Red Hat. Hmmmmm. That'll be the day.
Maybe you sue Linus. Right. Make him a martyr. Seal your own fate.
Or maybe you sue users. That'll make 'em love you.
Or maybe you sue IBM. Fat chance on that one.
Or maybe you sue me. Go ahead. Sue me. Lot of assets there, buddy.
Or maybe you sue some poor orphanage. That's satisfying. Look at what happened when SCO sued AutoZone, Chrysler, etc. That stuck. Not.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
Microsoft has not, cannot, and hasn't the political will to take on the Linux community directly.
/. followers who believe this type of thing. The other half would feel badly for ripping you out of the state of ignorant bliss.
Yes. Microsoft is too small and tired to take on people such as yourself.
Half of me actually feels badly for all the
The problem for an outsider is that they will pick "Linux". Now "Linux" is not "Linux" anymore because we want to punish Novell. So we have to make some political ramblings about patent deals and such. Even though the patent claims are FUD. Even though that BS doesn't exist for large parts of the world.
Hence your statement "A common enemy unites, not fractures, a community" is incorrect hoompapa. What is happening is that its fractured by 2 groups while there used to be one. Yes, the friends and foes are identified and yes the 'good' group may seem tight and yes you may argue it is the 'true group standing true to the original ideals' but... fractured, it has.
If you threaten a group of people, they will have something in common. Some will betray and backstab while the others will work together beating that enemy. Novell some of the smaller businesses are the backstabbers. While all this is happening Microsoft wants us to believe they are all ohhh and ahhh to open source, that there is no 'us and them'. I believe that while they realize its inevadable they'll lose ground they do damaga control in all kind of ways. This is an example. Its also a PR stunt to pull some sort of trick from a seemingly innocent yet incredibly dangerous kid.
As for Lenovo: they probably opted for those voucher thingies from Microsoft. Whenever a customer truelly wants to switch to Linux, Microsoft will say: "ohh here have this SUSE druggie." This is damage control, whereas Novell is Microsoft's puppy anyway.
WE DON'T NEED NO BLOG CONTROL.
Come on. Has anyone here even met such a person, matching all those characteristics?
You just added up a buch of attributes you don't agree with, put a name on it, and blamed it for being the major cause fracturing the open source community. That is not an effective way to find and correct real problems.
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
When I read this article on
"SuSE, it's your Linux"
Which is pretty ironic really. I mean if it was our Linux we would never have let them deal with the devil like they did.
This ad shows that they really are concerned about the fallout from their pact with MS
"You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
The open-source community will never be fractured, why ? Its just like saying the world is fractured between black and white people: the world is separated between those who have good taste in beer and those who dont. The computing world is pretty much the same: you have the big evil corporations comunity, controlling the governments, and the opensource free-thinking free-beer-recipe :P comunity which is pretty much everyone who is not a fashion victim. saying there is a fracture between people with blue eyes and those with brown eyes is complete bullshit. BSD users as well as linux users, we have all kinds in my terrorist training camp: as long as you tell them once they bombed the RIAA, Microsoft and apple's offices they will go to paradise (see the free software foundation definition), they will always be united.
I love you Rose!
Microsoft may be screwed, big time. If they really do have IP tht has been violated and haven't acted to defend it by now, they risk exposure to lawsuits by the shareholders (the people who actually DO own this IP). See this for the consequences of delay. If, on the other hand, its all a bluff, then they risk being charged with making fraudulent claims.
Have gnu, will travel.
We all know bullies get scared when you don't back down...they won't know what to do if Open-source doesn't ever back down...their only strategy is throwing the weight of their money around...
we small to medium web hosters and small to medium software houses are just avoiding microsoft trapped vendors.
once you get in bed with microsoft, you wake up screwed - we know from our clients that have done business with them in the past and got blasted.
Read radical news here
There is nothing that I have seen that shows the community was fractured. In fact, just about the opposite. Redhat actually tried to take it in their own direction and has been forced back towards the central. Of course, like any innovative company, they try to push the edge, which is a good thing. If somebody else comes up with a good mod to it, then great. In fact, with 3 distro's controlling about 80% of the community, it is very hard to fracture. I do think that MS has figured out an interesting angle and novell took the hook, but that remains to be seen. But even if so, so what? If it truely fractures, then groups like debian, redhat and ubuntu will continue in one direction vs. novell, linsa, and others continuing in a different and the users will decide.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
It's only a matter of time until the only "legal" copies of (so called) OSS will come from venders that can either a) afford to pay for licenses to patents, or b) have significant resources to fight back in a court of law.
The only hope against this is a) the OSS community AND corporations that believe they can benefit from OSS (IBM for example) funding an OSS Legal Protection Union, and b) more flexible OSS licenses similar to what the folks at wxWidgets have (you can use their code for ANYTHING educational, personal, non-profit, for-profit, enterprise, government, etc., etc. withOUT having to pay for any license).
Their are large gravitational effects at play now. OSS can no longer sit in the middle. It will go one way or the other.
Actually, the only thing holding me back from switching to Linux completely is the horrible and useless installation of new apps. Why can't Linux work like Windows - download a setup file, run it and it's there....
Ah but you can install software in Linux by just downloading and running it. I don't really know much about Linux but I know there's apt-get and rpm among others. And Linspire has CNR for Linspire Linux and they are porting it for other Linux distros. CNR allow you to select those programs you want then click a button to install them all. Uninstalling just another click.
if you don't like it, you choose "Uninstall".
Haha, I've uninstalled a lot of programs in Windows and they almost always leave junk, especially in the registry which can make it unstable. I've even had to manually uninstall software because there wasn't an uninstall and Windows Add/Remove couldn't uninstall.
I descended into dependency hell
And Windows doesn't, didn't, have DLL hell?
FalconShould there be a Law?
Microsoft doesn't have to fracture the OSS community. It does a fine job at fracturing itself.
.. What the fuck ever .. Why even argue over this shit.
"RMS IS A GOD"
"RMS IS AN IDIOT"
"YOU'RE AN IDIOT FOR NOT SEEING RMS IS A GOD"
"YOU'RE AN IDIOT FOR THINKING IM AN IDIOT FOR THINKING RMS IS A GOD"
And so on..
We make people into these cult-like status symbols, when in actuality, they shit like the rest of us do... Free software is good. Yes. OSS is good.
Freedom as in
GPL isn't freedom. Want freedom? Release all code as Public Domain, TOTALLY free.
Who fucking cares if Tivo uses it in their device. Means it was GOOD CODE.
I'll get modded down and flamed for this post, which will further fracture the community.
Good job!
= Grow a brain...
The more you tighten your grip, Lord Balmer, the more stupidly-named, 85% completed, effort-duplicating vanity projects will slip through your fingers!
I know of shops that switched to Debian GNU/Linux after the Red Hat Linux fuck-up several years ago and have never looked back. Red hat had the grass roots Linux movement, and they gave that away for 'enterprise' Linux. Fuck that. Debian GNU/Linux can do what RHL (remember that acronym) did. Novell, Suse and the newly renamed RHEL are going down the same road... fucking the end user is never a good idea. Ubuntu, Debian and others will fill the void. And OS software will remain free and open. Oses are becoming a commodity. Free, open and inexpensive. Trying to keep the software imprisoned, closed and expensive will fail. Fuck every company that tries that! The market will correct and punish the assholes trying to push this crap.
Checked out the article, and on the page what is this I see... An big advertisement (read flash vid) for MS Server 2003 that links to MS "Get the Facts" site
How eWeek's Peter Galli managed to divine that "Microsoft has succeeded in fracturing the Linux... community" from Shuttleworth's clear refutation that "Microsoft is trying to unsettle the marketplace. It isn't working..." is beyond me.
This dubious claim of Galli's is one of the clearest cases of "white is black" reporting I've seen in a while. Shuttleworth clearly, from his own statements, does not agree with the concept that the community is "fractured." At best, he believes that a few insignificant vendors have been "drawn into [negotiations with MS and] have paid a significant price."
I would say, from his clear, concise statements, that he sees the whole, sordid event as "extortion," and a crucible that has purified the community, rather than "fractured."
Read Shuttleworth's statements (in TFA) and see if you don't agree that Peter Galli is either a) a poor reporter who made a gross mischaracterization or b) has a strong agenda and preconceptions and can't even tell white from black in his zeal to follow them.
--
Toro
It doesn't get any easier than one click, which beats your MSdouble click. And it's open source now. Try it, linspire paid or freespire free, your choice. They also have USA legal normal media playback, as opposed to most other distros where you have to go to the wink wink nod nod offshore servers.
OMG! OH NO! Watch out!!!! BOO !!!!!!!!!!!
Hey, everybody needs an enemy to justify the cause ...
One problem that the OSS community suffers from is that there are many licensing forms, and that some are in conflict with what's suitable for some end-users.
All of the different licenses confuses users, those who know about them at all, maybe but for developers choice is good.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Until I see some significant market share gains by OSS (I'll use desktop Linux as the benchmark), at the expense of Microsoft, then I will remain unconvinced of the threat posed by OSS.
Why is the desktop the only metric? Why not Samba, OpenOffice, OpenDocument, Mono, open groupware servers and similar projects aand standards?
Because the desktop is Microsoft's market to keep or loose.
FalconShould there be a Law?
I agree that we should call it what it is, but it isn't extortion. Extortion is "You do something for me or I will hurt you in some way." When did Microsoft do that?
Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
Actually, I expect that Microsoft has already made contingency plans for moving its core products onto either a Linux or a BSD kernel, much like Apple did.
If you're counting Microsoft Office as a core product, then no, they haven't.
That's something I'm a little puzzled about, MS Office. If Microsoft had created a version of Office that could run on Unix, BSD, and Linux they would have opened up a whole new market. Unfortunately for them, but good for most others, they didn't. So Open Office was created and it now runs on many OSes. People try it and they like it so they willing to try other FOSS.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Then they laugh at you...
Then they fight you...
Then you win...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_VFKqw1q2Q
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of cats. MEOW!!
If you're planning on being a zealot, please be a consistent one "Peace. Love. GNU/Linux." Can't forget to give Stallman his credit, otherwise he might start washing himself. And it's people like you who're really tempting me to switch back over to windows. I'd rather have a capitalistic OS, than one that's supported by people that seem to remind me of christian fanatics from the middle ages.
But for now, I'll keep using Suse, because it's one of the more promising distros and it pisses of morons like yourself. Double win. Oh and the post above can't be modded interesting, did whoever modded it came from a year long vacation on an island in the middle of the pacific? It's the same crap I've been reading on slashdot for the past few months.
> Then RMS with his sometimes hypocritical usually Ultra Leftist views decides that companies are abusing the
:D
> nature of open source
Why is his Ultra Leftist views hypocritical?
> Most of us doesn't care about what Microsoft and Novel is doing trading patents in exchange for mutual
> protection of each others patents are a normal thing that goes on.
Most of "you", who, exactly? Who is this "us" you're talking about? AFAIC, i do care if powers that be are trying to mutualy protect each other. In this day free software equals free speech. This will be even more more apparent in the next 100 years. I do care if someone is trying to shrink my personal freedoms. Argument from popularity, trying to use, are we?
> But GPL 3 is what worries people myself included because we feel that it is going into a direction that is
> to strict and removes to much freedom from the developer and the user as well. Because a lot of the time
> Users are Developers too.
That is not a freedom you have, Sir. It is not the perogative of any user or any developer or any company to remove a piece of FREE (as in speech) software from the free software pool. From a Marxist point of view, while under copyright law, releasing software in any other licence than the GPL, actually removes power from the developer and the user. As do pattents.
Hackers of the World, unite. You got nothing to lose. the pattent office, does, though. a lot.
PS1 Anybody care to comment on my hypothesis? "Computer Programmers are the first generation of western proletariats who can and do own their means of production". *cough*marxisthacker*cought*
----
I won't argue that, the list can get quite long if you really want it to. However, I was mentioning the first thing that comes to mind, and something that you find on almost any open source system (and even many non-open source systems).
I find it interesting that you were modded up, and I was modded overrated though. Either the "coughing" was too rude, or the fact that what I mentioned came out of a BSD system bothered some of the fanbois with mod points.
34486853790
Connection too slow for X forwarding? Try "ssh -CX user@host"
Every distribution they knock down, two more will pop up!
Bad luck, Microsoft, please try harder.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
The comments that games aren't that important to the desktop drive me nuts. (ok everyone get ready to flame me) I have been in the retail and repair part of computers for over 12 years. And most of the time the comments on here make me think, but saying games don't matter, is just plain stupid. Most of the customers that i have sold computers to for the last 5 years tell me that they want something that will get on the net. You know they want to do some web browsing and email, maybe im a sister or relative or friends out of town. So hey linux would work just fine right? Nope because the next thing they will tell you, and this goes for 99% of the regular home computer users, "I would like to be able to play some games on it too, you know nothing big." I am sorry to disapoint the uber linux geeks on here, but mom and aunt betty want their mahjong, bejeweled and uncle john wants his texas holdem and deer hunter 99 (don't ask me why, i don't know) and their kids want battlefield, WOW, C&C3 and the other games that are making people millions every year. If linux had even two or three of the major tiles released every year working right out of the box. You would finnaly see in a couple of years linux start to take over the desktop. The average user needs his or hers little silly game to work on their "busness computer". If you don't think this is true then you have sat in your basement coding for way to long and just like the companies that you bash on here, you too are out of touch with the general computer user. I mean after all what does the linux community have to loose by making linux work with games? Notice how i worded that...i didn't say make the games work with patches....make changes inside linux that make it easier for the games to be written to work. This is suppose to be software that can be changed and adapted to meet the needs of it's users...well start making it work for the users that everyone whines about wanting on linux. Aunt Betty and Uncle John are waiting to play bejeweled help them out.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben
If Windows died in the marketplace and it came down to supporting Linux, I'd place a higher bet on Microsoft buying CodeWeavers than actually porting Office for real.
That would be the smart move for MS, Codeweavers has already put in a lot of work on Crossover. MS would immediately over Office to Linux users. Bundle the two together like Codeweavers does, then over tyme create a port of Office for Linux that doesn't need Crossover. That is it's smart now but if and when Open Office has a big market share it may be too late.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Nobody is forcing anything on to code that you have written. If you have borrowed code, you did not work on it, you are getting it for free (beer), surely you should respect the wish of the author.
IANAD (Developer) essentially removes any claim to validity you may have in this topic.
You really should write some code of immense worth and come to the point where you decide between GPL 2 and 3.
Then you will find that people can rob your rights from you if you just keep it GPLed v2.
Best is to let the user choose (which here mainly refers to the developer user who uses your GPL code to build a project around it)
One exceptionally good stance was of a kernel developer (forgot his name) who clearly said that he did not want to stop either side from using his code, so he said it is dual-licensed - use any GPL version(2 or 3 or later), at your choice.
What is wrong with that? Is that not nearly the best solution? Almost noble.
Why WASTE MILLIONS marketing linux when web2.0 and http://savannah.gnu.org/task/?7027 allow dummy installation training?
Those are the names, IIRC.
Also, the artist ears much lesser than the distributor.
The artist often has to quietly accept the distributor's rules.
I have read here and elsewhere that the artist gets as low as f-o-u-r percent
The distributor is mighty angered if the artist distributes a free album or number.
Who do you side with, the artist or the distributor?
The distributor surely does not make the good music and great lyrics.
Why WASTE MILLIONS marketing linux when web2.0 and http://savannah.gnu.org/task/?7027 allow dummy installation training?