But it's still possible a couple of rare but crucial implications of certain innocuous-looking parameters or tags that your tests just didn't happen to touch on could slip through the cracks..
Right-ee-oo.
I'm just waiting for people to discover gem tags like:
<renderscheme url="http://microsoft.net/My.OfficeXp" value="6e5736d7bbc6176c2e1a07c0b1831c8a"> <p>I am some plain text.</p><oxpremark>d9812c10019209e23a f700241cf1ae23</oxpremark> </renderscheme>
Even if the document is more exposed as XML, it's still quite possible to hide critical parts of the implementation by making the interface just as opaque, making reverse engineering exceedingly difficult.
[Well, I won't dwell on my rejected submission for this.]
But my attempt to build gcc 3.1 on sparc-sun-solaris2.8 gave me this problem:
echo timestamp > s-check
stage1/xgcc -Bstage1/ -B/usr/local/sparc-sun-solaris2.8/bin/ -c -DIN_GCC -g -O2 -W -Wall -Wwrite-strings -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wtraditional -pedantic -Wno-long-long -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -DGENERATOR_FILE -I. -I. -I../../gcc-3.1/gcc -I../../gcc-3.1/gcc/. -I../../gcc-3.1/gcc/config -I../../gcc-3.1/gcc/../include../../gcc-3.1/gcc/p rint-rtl.c -o print-rtl.o
In file included from ../../gcc-3.1/gcc/print-rtl.c:30: ../../gcc-3.1/gcc/tree.h:3183: stray '\273' in program ../../gcc-3.1/gcc/tree.h:3183: stray '\224' in program ../../gcc-3.1/gcc/tree.h:3183: stray '\315' in program ../../gcc-3.1/gcc/tree.h:3183: stray '\352' in program ../../gcc-3.1/gcc/tree.h:3183: stray '\274' in program ../../gcc-3.1/gcc/tree.h:3183: parse error before '&' token ../../gcc-3.1/gcc/tree.h:3183: stray '\246' in program ../../gcc-3.1/gcc/tree.h:3183: stray '\21' in program . . .
[This went on for some while.]
How would adding cool Solaris features to Linux help Sun:
migrate more users from Linux to Solaris? Why buy the cow when the milk is free?
sell more Sparc servers? The Solaris features added to Linux would be GPL and quickly ported to x86 Linux, undercutting Sparc server sales.
Good questions, and I'm not sure the answers are as comforting as you would like. But here goes.
It wouldn't actively cause migration from Linux to Solaris, but when the time comes to upgrade from a low cost Linux solution to something bigger and better, will it be Sun, HPaq, IBM, SGI? If Solaris is most compatible, then that choice will be Sun. Of course users will drink free milk as long as they can, but someday they'll need more milk than the free cows can give. The key is to insure that low end cheap server market goes into the UNIX world on a upgrade path that leads to you rather than your competitors.
Low end SPARC hardware sales are a losing proposition at this point in time. Sun has reasonably good high end offerings, but in the low end they're offering Solaris/SPARC vs either Wintel or Lintel. Lintel is the ultimate lowest cost option and, while it eats the lunch of low- end SPARC, that lunch was going to be eaten anyway by either Wintel or Lintel. At least the Linux box keeps users in the UNIX world where Sun has a lot of software experience to offer. Logically, you want the cost of rewriting business application logic transitioning from Linux to Solaris to be small. Also, 64-way Solaris/SPARC machines give those UNIX users at the low end a scalable upgrade path that is missing from the Wintel world.
Granted, it's harder to make money where much of what was previously offered is becoming commoditized, but it's an irresistable force that the market is demanding.
Ride that wave and anticipate where it's going instead of trying to stop it.
Yahoo is reporting that an internal Microsoft memo from August of 2000 urged employees to 'work underground' to hurt companies, like Intel, who support Linux.
Well, that's simply preposterous!
I mean, <boost target="microsoft">how could one the worlds foremost respected software manufacturers, a company that literally spends billions on research and development specifically addressing customers needs for an integrated business experience based upon Microsoft Innovation® possibly stoop to such tactics?
I mean, give me a break, you <create_mud target="Linux"> DeCSS-hacking, copyright-infringing, intellectual property destroying, Linux zealots have some good points now and then but on this you're way off the mark!
[Quoting from the story] Perhaps the greatest advantage of viral marketing is that your message is placed into a context where it is more likely to be considered seriously.
Fortunately, here at Slashdot no one is likely to make the mistake of considering posters seriously. I read Slashot and I read the headlines of the Weekly World News, too!
if they integrate GPL code fron Linux into their OS
Instead of integrating Linux code into Solaris, what Sun needs to do, rather, is to implement some of the nicer features and interfaces of Solaris into the Linux kernel, making Linux look more like Solaris.
I mean, it already does in a lot of ways and, to be sure, they'll have to contend with differences of opinion from the benevolent dictators that control the Linux kernel (eg, POSIX threads debate), glibc, etc.
But it's in Sun's best interest to pave a smooth superhighway upgrade path from Linux to Solaris for users that grow beyond their x86 hardware.
Also, with their ownership of Cobalt, they could really make a pressing low end solution of Java on Linux/x86 to build flavored servers using open source interfaces without tying clients into a OurOneSizeFitsAllYourNeeds scheme. Then, customers wanting more complex business logic could opt for slicker building environment that Sun could sell.
The other hardware route that Sun could take is to build an x86 system with the hardware reliability that has been lacking, especially compared to SPARC systems. Linux gives you a UNIX OS with plenty of nines, there's no excuse for the hardware to crap out as much as it does, especially for servers.
You can still do tilde escapes in ssh or at least openssh.
Most of my usage has been on X displays running multiple virtual terminal sessions.
In the old days, on a single green screen CRT, I had a lot more need for quickly switching sessions in the same terminal window, using tilde escapes and sending jobs into background, etc. Not so much anymore, though.
Actually, I have two TiVos. One with the stock 20 GB drive and additional 75 GB drive I added, the other with two 100 GB drives.
They're great. I record shows and I watch shows using the fast forward and play buttons to whip through advertisements in a few seconds.
I do play closer attention while the high speed commercials are playing so I don't miss the return of the show. Whether that closer attention does anyone any good, I don't know, but it's a real phenomenon.
Secondly, I've noticed that the only shows I watch live anymore are news shows. I don't record these for later viewing. Hence, those are the one place I end up seeing car commercials, etc.
The moral of the story is that if you're an advertiser, your dollars are better spent on CNN Headline News than they are on conventional entertainment.
Probably the same is true of sporting events. I doubt many people will tolerate watching "old" sports for the benefit of racing through the commercials.
the fact that all the n00bs are so passive, makes it easier for the government, corporations etc to become stronger, and more authoritative in obliterating privacy
Exactly.
I can take all the measures I want to protect my own privacy, but if 95% of the population is willing to use their SSN to enter a contest to win a free discount coupon for a time-share vacation hideaway, then I'll be up the creek.
You would not believe how casually I get asked
"What's your sosh?"
for really stupid things.
Because the bureaucrats can't get you past square one without it, it's hard to refuse. But not before I ask a lot of questions about how well they protect this data and give them some stories about acquaintences who suffered identity theft as a consequence of a leaky db containing their SSN.
The more educated people are, the better.
But I fear it will take more widespread abuse that is more instrusive before the general population wakes up to the importance of privacy.
No one thinks they'll live in a world where their own brand of diversity could suddenly be regarded as dangerous to society, but it's happened in the past, it's happening now, and it will happen in the future.
I doubt anyone smart enough to install and run OpenBSD is going to be stupid enough to run the r suite of utilities.
But I have to pause in remembrance, because, after all, they are the Berkeley r-suite.
I used them for many years, alongside telnet and ftp, back in the 1980's when 4.2BSD was distributed with my computer. Anyone remember doing tilde escapes to pop back to the local machine?
Even though their security model is insufficient in this present day and age, they really helped to pave the way in showing how remote computers could be accessed in a convenient and powerful way.
It's fitting that a BSD will be the first to retire this venerable set of programs.
At school I remember some old ADM keyboards that had slippery keys, with much blackness just aside from the contact points. Shudder!
Those were public terminals, though.
I've noticed that keyboard cleanliness really depends on the person. Not whether they dump coffee and cheetos on them, but whether their hands are particularly heavy sources of oil.
Just pass the charges for implementing the system and for storing the data onto the users with a full explanation that they are paying to be in compliance with the legal provision.
They're the voters - let them taste a little of their government in action, let them feedback as they deem fit if they find the added "value" of this measure insufficient relative to its costing them.
I'd like to have the flexibility to pick my own username along the lines of short first name handles ("gus"), or 3 letter acronyms ("rtm"). But, no, we get a standardized way of butchering things into mostly unique but guaranteed unpronounceable gibberish.
It would be good if there was a web based client that allowed people to pick any unused, inoffensive name.
We have web based interfaces for helping to pick new passwords - why not usernames?
Finally, as networked directory services become more commonplace (LDAP, etc.) the username seems to have diminished importance to the position it had many years ago. Not such a big deal.
My ISP's Usenet Server (NTL in the UK) is set up to add NNTP-Posting-Host: with your IP to every post. So much for Usenet being an anonymous media.
Sheesh, the least they could do is to set it to the blanket IP address of the ISP instead of targetting individual users.
Their current policy that runs roughshod over anonymity will tend to discourage their users from offering advice and support to, say, victims of AIDs and other STDs, addicts of controlled substances, political opponents of friends of the NTL executives, etc.
"the Internet, at its ugliest, is just an open sewer: an electronic conduit for untreated, unfiltered information."
That's a correct assessment not just of the Internet, but of the the ideas communicated before the advent of the Internet.
Nothing special there: porn, intolerance and deception have been around quite some time. The Internet only intensifies the speed of communication.
It's incumbent upon every individual to become their own filtration plant amid the sewage of information.
Parents and culture (school, church, TV) are supposed to help in developing this ability in young people, but there have certainly been instances where cultures have contributed and reinforced septic messages.
Hard to say whether this was good or bad for either side. I think the states really don't want to drag things out anymore, inasmuch as one of the major planks of any remedy is expeditious application to make up for literally years of unrestrained behavior by Microsoft.
Lately, though, it seems that the states' legal team screwed up in some filings and when MS pulled witnesses at the last minute, they lost windows of opportunity to present evidence that the proposed DoJ remedy is woefully weak.
Still, I would not be at all surprised to see a ruling that the states have a valid claim, followed by the DoJ and MS agreeing to another round of talks to bring the settlement closer to what the non-settling states want. Anything else would result in chaos, given that MS has to conduct business in settling states and non-settling states simultaneously.
the executive never realizes just how vulnerable they are with MS products.
I think they do realize in many cases.
I can't tell you how many times our corporating has warned everyone of the latest Outlook transported virus du jour. As a UNIX user I simply shrug it off, knowning that any ".vbs" attachment getting into my inbox won't go any further.
But corporate IT departments look upon these things as facts of life, like jams on the freeway or catching a cold.
Bombing them with more sploits is unnecessary and probably would be counter productive.
Better would be to demonstrate and make cogent arguments for alternatives that would liberate them from all kinds of problems that they regard as unavoidable facts of life. They're not unavoidable!
Slashdot Mirror
This is SPARC (v9).
Solaris 8.
My first attempt failed, using gcc 3.0.4 to do the bootstrap build.
My second attempt failed, using Suns WS 6u2.
Thanks for the configure line. I'll also try extracting on a different filesystem as another poster suggested, since the symptoms look suspicious.
Amazing the lengths some will go to squash anti-government sentiment."
Not at all amazing.
If the "some" happen to be those enjoying the fruits of the current government's existence, they'll go to lengths to keep the status quo.
It's always been that way, everywhere.
But it's still possible a couple of rare but crucial implications of certain innocuous-looking parameters or tags that your tests just didn't happen to touch on could slip through the cracks..
Right-ee-oo.
I'm just waiting for people to discover gem tags like:
Even if the document is more exposed as XML, it's still quite possible to hide critical parts of the implementation by making the interface just as opaque, making reverse engineering exceedingly difficult.[Well, I won't dwell on my rejected submission for this.]
But my attempt to build gcc 3.1 on sparc-sun-solaris2.8 gave me this problem:
../../gcc-3.1/gcc/p rint-rtl.c -o print-rtl.o
../../gcc-3.1/gcc/print-rtl.c:30:
../../gcc-3.1/gcc/tree.h:3183: stray '\273' in program
../../gcc-3.1/gcc/tree.h:3183: stray '\224' in program
../../gcc-3.1/gcc/tree.h:3183: stray '\315' in program
../../gcc-3.1/gcc/tree.h:3183: stray '\352' in program
../../gcc-3.1/gcc/tree.h:3183: stray '\274' in program
../../gcc-3.1/gcc/tree.h:3183: parse error before '&' token
../../gcc-3.1/gcc/tree.h:3183: stray '\246' in program
../../gcc-3.1/gcc/tree.h:3183: stray '\21' in program
.
.
.
echo timestamp > s-check
stage1/xgcc -Bstage1/
-B/usr/local/sparc-sun-solaris2.8/bin/ -c
-DIN_GCC -g -O2 -W -Wall -Wwrite-strings
-Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wtraditional -pedantic
-Wno-long-long -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -DGENERATOR_FILE -I. -I. -I../../gcc-3.1/gcc
-I../../gcc-3.1/gcc/. -I../../gcc-3.1/gcc/config
-I../../gcc-3.1/gcc/../include
In file included from
[This went on for some while.]
Any ideas?
Um, so what exactly is the operating temperature range of these Cool Chips?
[I'm hoping it's not, oh, 2e-6 K<T<3e-6 K, or 20 C <T<20.1 C.]
there are some linux distros out there that don't have the r- suite
You're right.
If I'd thought a minute I probably would have figured out that such Linux distros exist; Tin Foil Hat comes to mind.
The article seems to show a fairly simple state model for Vovida.
I love simplicity, but worry about feature completeness and extensibility, too.
Does anyone knowledgable know how Vovida compare with Bayonne?
How would adding cool Solaris features to Linux help Sun:
Good questions, and I'm not sure the answers are as comforting as you would like. But here goes.
It wouldn't actively cause migration from Linux to Solaris, but when the time comes to upgrade from a low cost Linux solution to something bigger and better, will it be Sun, HPaq, IBM, SGI? If Solaris is most compatible, then that choice will be Sun. Of course users will drink free milk as long as they can, but someday they'll need more milk than the free cows can give. The key is to insure that low end cheap server market goes into the UNIX world on a upgrade path that leads to you rather than your competitors.
Low end SPARC hardware sales are a losing proposition at this point in time. Sun has reasonably good high end offerings, but in the low end they're offering Solaris/SPARC vs either Wintel or Lintel. Lintel is the ultimate lowest cost option and, while it eats the lunch of low- end SPARC, that lunch was going to be eaten anyway by either Wintel or Lintel. At least the Linux box keeps users in the UNIX world where Sun has a lot of software experience to offer. Logically, you want the cost of rewriting business application logic transitioning from Linux to Solaris to be small. Also, 64-way Solaris/SPARC machines give those UNIX users at the low end a scalable upgrade path that is missing from the Wintel world.
Granted, it's harder to make money where much of what was previously offered is becoming commoditized, but it's an irresistable force that the market is demanding.
Ride that wave and anticipate where it's going instead of trying to stop it.
Yahoo is reporting that an internal Microsoft memo from August of 2000 urged employees to 'work underground' to hurt companies, like Intel, who support Linux.
Well, that's simply preposterous!
I mean, <boost target="microsoft">how could one the worlds foremost respected software manufacturers, a company that literally spends billions on research and development specifically addressing customers needs for an integrated business experience based upon Microsoft Innovation® possibly stoop to such tactics?
I mean, give me a break, you <create_mud target="Linux"> DeCSS-hacking, copyright-infringing, intellectual property destroying, Linux zealots have some good points now and then but on this you're way off the mark!
Copyright © 2002 Microsoft Slashdot Posting Engine, All Rights Reserved. Not to be reprinted without permission.
[Quoting from the story]
Perhaps the greatest advantage of viral marketing is that your message is placed into a context where it is more likely to be considered seriously.
Fortunately, here at Slashdot no one is likely to make the mistake of considering posters seriously. I read Slashot and I read the headlines of the Weekly World News, too!
if they integrate GPL code fron Linux into their OS
Instead of integrating Linux code into Solaris, what Sun needs to do, rather, is to implement some of the nicer features and interfaces of Solaris into the Linux kernel, making Linux look more like Solaris.
I mean, it already does in a lot of ways and, to be sure, they'll have to contend with differences of opinion from the benevolent dictators that control the Linux kernel (eg, POSIX threads debate), glibc, etc.
But it's in Sun's best interest to pave a smooth superhighway upgrade path from Linux to Solaris for users that grow beyond their x86 hardware.
Also, with their ownership of Cobalt, they could really make a pressing low end solution of Java on Linux/x86 to build flavored servers using open source interfaces without tying clients into a OurOneSizeFitsAllYourNeeds scheme. Then, customers wanting more complex business logic could opt for slicker building environment that Sun could sell.
The other hardware route that Sun could take is to build an x86 system with the hardware reliability that has been lacking, especially compared to SPARC systems. Linux gives you a UNIX OS with plenty of nines, there's no excuse for the hardware to crap out as much as it does, especially for servers.
You can still do tilde escapes in ssh or at least openssh.
Most of my usage has been on X displays running multiple virtual terminal sessions.
In the old days, on a single green screen CRT, I had a lot more need for quickly switching sessions in the same terminal window, using tilde escapes and sending jobs into background, etc. Not so much anymore, though.
I have a TiVo.
Actually, I have two TiVos. One with the stock 20 GB drive and additional 75 GB drive I added, the other with two 100 GB drives.
They're great. I record shows and I watch shows using the fast forward and play buttons to whip through advertisements in a few seconds.
I do play closer attention while the high speed commercials are playing so I don't miss the return of the show. Whether that closer attention does anyone any good, I don't know, but it's a real phenomenon.
Secondly, I've noticed that the only shows I watch live anymore are news shows. I don't record these for later viewing. Hence, those are the one place I end up seeing car commercials, etc.
The moral of the story is that if you're an advertiser, your dollars are better spent on CNN Headline News than they are on conventional entertainment.
Probably the same is true of sporting events. I doubt many people will tolerate watching "old" sports for the benefit of racing through the commercials.
the fact that all the n00bs are so passive, makes it easier for the government, corporations etc to become stronger, and more authoritative in obliterating privacy
Exactly.
I can take all the measures I want to protect my own privacy, but if 95% of the population is willing to use their SSN to enter a contest to win a free discount coupon for a time-share vacation hideaway, then I'll be up the creek.
You would not believe how casually I get asked
for really stupid things.Because the bureaucrats can't get you past square one without it, it's hard to refuse. But not before I ask a lot of questions about how well they protect this data and give them some stories about acquaintences who suffered identity theft as a consequence of a leaky db containing their SSN.
The more educated people are, the better.
But I fear it will take more widespread abuse that is more instrusive before the general population wakes up to the importance of privacy. No one thinks they'll live in a world where their own brand of diversity could suddenly be regarded as dangerous to society, but it's happened in the past, it's happening now, and it will happen in the future.
So, after a quake like this, are there changes in human behavior that you can notice?
I doubt anyone smart enough to install and run OpenBSD is going to be stupid enough to run the r suite of utilities.
But I have to pause in remembrance, because, after all, they are the Berkeley r-suite.
I used them for many years, alongside telnet and ftp, back in the 1980's when 4.2BSD was distributed with my computer. Anyone remember doing tilde escapes to pop back to the local machine?
Even though their security model is insufficient in this present day and age, they really helped to pave the way in showing how remote computers could be accessed in a convenient and powerful way.
It's fitting that a BSD will be the first to retire this venerable set of programs.
R.I.P., r-suite.
At school I remember some old ADM keyboards that had slippery keys, with much blackness just aside from the contact points. Shudder!
Those were public terminals, though.
I've noticed that keyboard cleanliness really depends on the person. Not whether they dump coffee and cheetos on them, but whether their hands are particularly heavy sources of oil.
Or does it seem that tornado prediction is still something that is unreliable until only a few minutes before one touches down?
Hurricane path prediction seems to be similarly challenging but important.
Just pass the charges for implementing the system and for storing the data onto the users with a full explanation that they are paying to be in compliance with the legal provision.
They're the voters - let them taste a little of their government in action, let them feedback as they deem fit if they find the added "value" of this measure insufficient relative to its costing them.
Representative government in action!
My company's scheme produces really sucky names.
I'd like to have the flexibility to pick my own username along the lines of short first name handles ("gus"), or 3 letter acronyms ("rtm"). But, no, we get a standardized way of butchering things into mostly unique but guaranteed unpronounceable gibberish.
It would be good if there was a web based client that allowed people to pick any unused, inoffensive name.
We have web based interfaces for helping to pick new passwords - why not usernames?
Finally, as networked directory services become more commonplace (LDAP, etc.) the username seems to have diminished importance to the position it had many years ago. Not such a big deal.
My ISP's Usenet Server (NTL in the UK) is set up to add NNTP-Posting-Host: with your IP to every post. So much for Usenet being an anonymous media.
Sheesh, the least they could do is to set it to the blanket IP address of the ISP instead of targetting individual users.
Their current policy that runs roughshod over anonymity will tend to discourage their users from offering advice and support to, say, victims of AIDs and other STDs, addicts of controlled substances, political opponents of friends of the NTL executives, etc.
"the Internet, at its ugliest, is just an open sewer: an electronic conduit for untreated, unfiltered information."
That's a correct assessment not just of the Internet, but of the the ideas communicated before the advent of the Internet.
Nothing special there: porn, intolerance and deception have been around quite some time. The Internet only intensifies the speed of communication.
It's incumbent upon every individual to become their own filtration plant amid the sewage of information.
Parents and culture (school, church, TV) are supposed to help in developing this ability in young people, but there have certainly been instances where cultures have contributed and reinforced septic messages.
Hard to say whether this was good or bad for either side. I think the states really don't want to drag things out anymore, inasmuch as one of the major planks of any remedy is expeditious application to make up for literally years of unrestrained behavior by Microsoft.
Lately, though, it seems that the states' legal team screwed up in some filings and when MS pulled witnesses at the last minute, they lost windows of opportunity to present evidence that the proposed DoJ remedy is woefully weak.
Still, I would not be at all surprised to see a ruling that the states have a valid claim, followed by the DoJ and MS agreeing to another round of talks to bring the settlement closer to what the non-settling states want. Anything else would result in chaos, given that MS has to conduct business in settling states and non-settling states simultaneously.
That's weird. I did the same thing, but when I was done my wife only asked about the other things on the "to do" list.
No, you're weird - and lucky, too!
My wife doesn't wait for me to be done with some task before she asks me about the other things on the "to do" list.
the executive never realizes just how vulnerable they are with MS products.
I think they do realize in many cases.
I can't tell you how many times our corporating has warned everyone of the latest Outlook transported virus du jour. As a UNIX user I simply shrug it off, knowning that any ".vbs" attachment getting into my inbox won't go any further.
But corporate IT departments look upon these things as facts of life, like jams on the freeway or catching a cold.
Bombing them with more sploits is unnecessary and probably would be counter productive.
Better would be to demonstrate and make cogent arguments for alternatives that would liberate them from all kinds of problems that they regard as unavoidable facts of life. They're not unavoidable!