Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Urged Linux Retaliation
Rossalina W Sanchez writes: "Yahoo is reporting that an internal Microsoft memo from August of 2000 urged employees to 'work underground' to hurt companies, like Intel, who support Linux. When will they learn that these memos always come back to haunt them ..."
I'd imagine the internal letters between linux developers on crippling microsoft are 100x worse.
Exactly how is the unearthing of this memo going to dent their $40 billion in cash reserves or their dominance in the marketplace. They've already been sued by the U.S. gov and the states as well as by their peers and competitors.
But this memo will haunt them.
I think it's pretty obvious that Microsoft is, in part, so arrogant precisely because this stuff never really does haunt them.
Let them eat cake!
Just pick-up and join in on the Be lawsuit (www.beincorporated.com). Be has a much stronger case than the states in my opinion.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
The memo was dated August 2000?
Sounds to me like they haven't been terribly successful thus far.
Sharpies don't just sniff themselves.
Similar startegies:. html?tag=fd_t op
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-912906
why the XBOX2 will have an AMD processor in it.
"Da ist ein Technölüst in mein Unterpanten!"
urged employees to 'work underground' to hurt companies...
they did a good job, they built WINDOWS XP!!!
Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
http://www.morroida.com.br
...justice officials also noted that an encrypted Microsoft memo read, "!seineew era sreenigne xuniL" and appealed to member of the open source community to help them decode the message.
Have fun: Join D.N.A. (National Dyslexics Association)
*insert Microsoft joke here* Seriously, though, it was just one guy writing a memo. I could recommend whatever the hell I want to my boss, it doesn't mean he'll listen to any of it.
From: Bill Gates
To: All M$ Employees and Shills
Re: Anti-M$ Publicity
Kill Slashdot.
Fat bonus to whomever Slashdots those bastards.
xoxox
Bill
hi!
Does it really shock anyone? It's like everyone expects them to get along? When was the last time you saw two competiting grocery stores run newspaper ads supporting each other. It's just the way the US business world works, you make your money at the expense of others. I'm not a Microsoft fan but jeez it's not like this sort of stuff doesn't happen in every other corporation. Bad mouthing the competition and saying how great your company is, is a tatic to try and get employees motivated, whether it works or not is questionable but the fact that Microsoft bad mouths a competing OS, or tries to force companies to use its software shouldn't surprise anyone.
Because it doesn't hurt them.
Look out there in the business world. See any companies saying "Hey, Microsoft is unfair? We should shift our stuff over and stop using them!"
No, what you see is "Well, we have to change our licensing and pay more money. We don't have any choice."
Of all the things that I don't like Microsoft for, that's the #1 thing. I see people saying "But...I can't get a Mac - it won't work with my stuff", where stuff == Microsoft Office and Adobe Acrobat. I see IT Staffs scrambling to count licenses for fear that the SBA will knock on the door and find that one computer without a piece of paper stating that Windows 2000 was paid for.
I see hopelessness, and I see just a resigned acceptance.
Learn? Why should they learn. Microsoft gets paid because people are either too lazy, or unwilling to see the alternatives. So they won't learn from their "mistakes" - until the day it hits them in the pocketbook. And that's not happening yet.
If ever.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
One of the great things about Linux is that it is not a "product" as such -- it's more of a process. And as any SysAdmin worth his salt knows, it can be a tricky thing to kill a runaway process! ; - >
I'd imagine the internal letters between linux developers on crippling microsoft are 100x worse.
Yes, but they are GPL'ed and everyone can use/modify them
This must be the reason why MS bashing post on Slashdot are so redundant, they are just different distros.
I'd rather be sailing...
Ah, and then AMD testified in favor of Microsoft out of the goodness of their hearts.
And this just speaks for itself: "I would further try to restrict source code deliveries where possible and be less gracious when interpreting agreements -- again without being obvious about it," Kempin wrote.
"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."
When will they learn that these memos always come back to haunt them ...
I think it is more likely that memos like this rearely come back to haunt them. Therefore, one or two leak out for every hundred of these offending memos that are produced.
Hmmm. I'm betting that all the memos in the world won't amount to a hill of beans when we see the sentencing of Micros~1 come to play.
It does get us Linux/Unix/Mac people all fired up though and gives us an ideological reason on top of the technological reasons we use these alternative OSes.
It makes me wonder if there are a ton of memos that we HAVEN'T seen, and what the content of those might be...
Maybe we're doing something right!
The real question is when will people figure out these leaks are fake.
How long has the Linux community been urging Microsoft retaliation? ;-)
Got Rhinos?
This is sure to burn some karma, but what the hell...it needs to be said:
When will Slashdot stop drooling over every single god damn "leaked memo" that becomes public? Who cares about a stupid e-mail that basically puts into words what everyone already knew? What you're talking about is COMMON BUSINESS PRACTICE. Undermining competition is what keeps businesses alive...it's been that way since the beginnings of capitalist economics. Get over it, people...and move along - there sure as hell isn't anything to see here.
"The e-mail represents some random thoughts of a company executive who no longer has anything to do with our relationship with Intel or (computer makers)," Desler said.
Riiiight...
So I guess that makes it all right then?
IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV
"The e-mail represents some random thoughts of a company executive who no longer has anything to do with our relationship with Intel or (computer makers)," Desler said.
:) and MS is suporting AMD
is there any signs of MS changing its dealings
with intell around this time?
Im pritty sure AMD also suports that evil
linux thing
with there next gen chips..
You have 5 Moderator Points!
Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
i can't even remember when this crap was actually news.
Doesn't look like Microsoft is hurting too bad. They still dominate the Intel desktop, and their antitrust trial is a joke. They can keep on doing stuff like this because, if a memo leaks out every now and again that they're behaving in an anticompetitive nature, there won't be any consequences.
Whenever Microsoft gets caught with its hand in the cookie jar, they try hard to make up for it. If Intel and IBM got together and said, we're going to put a Linux desktop out there that the average joe wants and can use as easily as windows, Microsoft will have something to fear. I suspect that they will make a lot of conciliatory gestures towards Intel. Kind of an Ike Turner thing -- take me back, baby, I never meant to hurt you!
Joachim Kempin was thinking out loud, so they say, and nothing came of it. The truth is, these kinds of discussions go on all the time in business. Business is all about relationship building and sometimes you use a carrot and sometimes you use a stick to keep partners in line (and a lot of business people have no great skill other than creatively wielding carrot/stick, IMHO).
What gets M$ into trouble is that they have a monopoly and a one-sided advantage because of it, so their "relationship building" always looks like Hitler invading Poland. You can draw out that comparison to it's logical conclusion if you care to.
=^..^= all your rodent are belong to us
Do you believe in death after life?
Yahoo is reporting that an internal Microsoft memo from August of 2000 urged employees to 'work underground' to hurt companies, like Intel, who support Linux.
Well, that's simply preposterous!
I mean, <boost target="microsoft">how could one the worlds foremost respected software manufacturers, a company that literally spends billions on research and development specifically addressing customers needs for an integrated business experience based upon Microsoft Innovation® possibly stoop to such tactics?
I mean, give me a break, you <create_mud target="Linux"> DeCSS-hacking, copyright-infringing, intellectual property destroying, Linux zealots have some good points now and then but on this you're way off the mark!
Copyright © 2002 Microsoft Slashdot Posting Engine, All Rights Reserved. Not to be reprinted without permission.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Well, Samba, Mozilla runs under Windows, tons of apps at sourceforge.net runs under Windows, Open Office runs for Windows too.
Is there any evidence to support your argument?
Perhaps Micro$haft have taken a leaf from the book of a certain RailTrack director who seems to be going out of his way to give himself bad press (in the UK)... ;-)
-->Gar
Gareth 'bigbro' Eason : "Big Brother Is Watching You!"
Don't worry! Its all OK. Geez, didn't you even read the article? See it says right here:
/.'s unwarranted rants.
Microsoft spokesman Jim Desler said Kempin's memo was "irrelevant" because the company never acted on his ideas.
I knew this was another one of
-Sean
yea, especially those ones working on WINE. they have really been trying to cripple windows, by making sure that windows programs are compatible with linux.
do ya think?
the sky is blue
people lie
This is news???? I am sure that the yet-to-be-disclosed memos from Microsoft (or any other company) are just as bad or worse. Better yet, somebody type up a memo, with [insert company name here]'s letterhead on it, making sure that it says a lot of ugly things about the competition, then leak it to the media so it will get distributed as news.Come on people -- this is not news!
...we are from the government - we are here to help...
I'm no conspiracy theorist, but if you think about it logically for Microsoft, it's good anytime one of these memos is put together or "leaked". Microsoft continues to trumpet the so called "threat" of Linux and Apple and thus govt and other interested parties are less likely to scream that Microsoft is dominating the software industry. I believe for the same underlying reason they loaned Apple $200 million when they needed it (it hurts Microsoft in the end to be the only one left standing (govt doens't like this)).
This is why every time I read one of these "leaked" emails I just shrug picturing somebody at Microsoft's HQ smiling that everybody here and on various other sites all go into hoots over "leaked" email.
Never mind the court case. It's become public knowlege that they were thumbing their nose at the judge (which is what precipitated his off the bench remarks to begin with...). Moreso with this. People won't want to deal with companies that are this corrupt (which is what it is...).
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Linux on the Desktop hahahaha...
I dont want Linux to be used by average joe,
now i can tell everyone that i boycot MS and that
i cannot help them with there computer problem.
Now if average joe would be running Linux or something like that
then i would be needed helping out Neighbours, Familie and Friends every week, bah! you selfish person!
$ ssh -l myadminacount ipofneighbour
password:
"When will they learn that these memos always come back to haunt them"
Hopefully never.
Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
It's a problem that Microsoft, a "convicted" monopoly is doing it. It's just that simple.
"I would further try to restrict source code deliveries where possible and be less gracious when interpreting agreements -- again without being obvious about it," Kempin wrote.
Microsoft spokesman Jim Desler said Kempin's memo was "irrelevant" because the company never acted on his ideas.
Nope, if Microsoft would have acted on those ideas, they would have done something like promise to provide support in Windows for AMD's 64-bit architecture instead of a comparable Intel architecture.
Aren't you glad we have Microsoft Spokesmen to set the record straight?
Is it because they have blackmailed "Millions of $s"?
In that case, wouldn't it be more suitable to use "B$" as they have blackmailed "BILLIONS of $s"...
No, but wait! Wouldn't that sound then like it's a "Bull$..." company?!?!?
I don't think this is a valid argument from the manufacturers. If Dell or Gateway or Compaq started preloading Linux on their machines, what is microsoft going to do? Say, "OK, we aren't selling windows licenses to Dell anymore." I don't think so. Especially since that is where they get their huge user base. Because most PCs COME WITH WINDOWS ON THEM! Now they might be so arrgant as to think if they stop selling copies of Windows to Gateway, Gateway will cease to be. But I don't think this is the case. First of all, geeks would flock to order PCs where they didn't have to pay the "Microsoft Tax" (i.e. buying an OS license they will never use.) Second, most of the non-geeks that I know think their operating system is Office 2000, so they aren't going to know what Linux means when they order it. Sure this will generate some returns, but most people will either figure it out, or be too proud to admit they don't know what they are talking about. Third, if one does it, the others will, too. And MS can't stop selling licenses to EVERY PC retailer. It would be suicide. One of the big PC companies just needs to step up to the plate and tell MS to sod off, and offer Linux certified systems. With hardware that has available drivers, already set up and configured, with the latest kernel, KDE, etc. I'm telling you it would work.
As for interoperability, most of the software we write these days is CGI or Java, and runs on any modern web browser. Also with StarOffice, I've almost got 100% MS Office compatibility. I can do almost anything on my Linux box that I can with my MS box. (I still can't write Visual Basic programs in Linux, but I'm sure someone is working on that!)
"Da ist ein Technölüst in mein Unterpanten!"
Remember when rumours were abound about Microsoft going the AMD way for the chip on Xbox2 ? Everyone wondered why they would ditch Intel ?
These guys are committing SNAFUs all year round.
Rapid Nirvana
We keep seeing memos like this, but they mean nothing. All they show us is that MS has to keep cleaning out its pants every few weeks. At this point in the ballgame we need to stop jumping on the table and beating our chests. Linux cannot fail (that's the part most people don't get). Patience is what the Linux community needs more than anything. Linux is like a confused youth and the people in the community get to guide it around. Someday that job will go to others, but for now we need to enjoy it while we still can.
...because it's one of their execs openly spouting off like that when he SHOULD have kept his mouth shut (they were still in the original final throes of the trial over this VERY thing...). Just because they "didn't act on it" openly doesn't mean they didn't act on it or that we shouldn't be deeply troubled about the conduct all the same.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
What you're talking about is COMMON BUSINESS PRACTICE.
That is exactly the point. Microsoft is a monopoly, that means they are not a common business. It means that what other companies use as common business practice is unfair when used by them.
Your average business is competing on equal (or relatively similar) footing. Microsoft, on the other hand, is in an infinately better position than any other company. To the point that if any tech company wants to stay in business they need Microsofts good grace. That is not how business is supposed to work.
Always makes me think of the uncle Ben quote "With great power comes great responsibility." I know, it's kind of cheesy to apply it here, but it's true. No one in the industry has a fraction of the power Microsoft has, and only a small fraction of the industry has the lack of responsibility Microsoft displays.
Science may someday discover what faith has always known.
Linux is a virus using human engineering as a vector to infect hardware whose natural symbiont is Windows.
Linux is a woman who gives you the sex for free but then wants you to maintain her forever; Windows is the (sometimes diseased) whore who takes cash up front but then insists you cannot touch her in certain ways.
Linux is a vehicle suited for the smart and poor; Windows is a better ride for the stupid and rich. So if Linux wins, the world ends up with more smart poor; if Windows, more stupid rich.
___
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
I bet Slashdot's internal memos all contain links to this
When did Dell do this? Did they advertise? I never saw anything about it. I know several people who bought Dells, and they couldn't get a Dell with Linux. (a couple of them asked.) If nobody bought them, it's probably because nobody KNEW about them!
"Da ist ein Technölüst in mein Unterpanten!"
Let's link to the same story found on Reuters. That's where Yahoo got the story from: The Reuters article
I really hate signatures, but go to my website.
"When will they learn that these memos always come back to haunt them ..."
Hopefully never. These memos have been invaluable in showing the world (and the courts) how consistently underhanded and criminal MS has been all along.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
I don't like brussels sprouts, so I don't eat them. I like tomatoes, so I eat them.
My wife does not like mushrooms, so she doesn't eat them. My wife likes steak, so she eats it.
Neither my wife nor I like Corona Beer, so we don't drink it. We like Sam Adams, so we drink it.
Neither my wife nor I like Microsoft products, so we don't use them at home. We like Linux, so we accordingly use Linux.
So what's my point? If you don't like it, there is nobody holding a gun to your head requiring you to use it. If you want an alternative, you know where to find it.
This sig no verb.
From the article: Microsoft should withhold technical information from Intel and "work underground" to promote its competitors in the computer chip industry
Hasn't somebody mentioned to MS that AMD is helping with the porting of GCC, Linux, NetBSD, and FreeBSD to x86-64?
"Kempin recommended that computer makers who were not "friendly" with Microsoft should be hit "harder than in the past with anti-Linux actions."
U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly disallowed the Kempin memo -- along with several others -- during Gates' testimony after Microsoft's lawyers objected to it.
The states' attorneys argued in their filing on Monday that Kempin's e-mail shows Microsoft continued to discuss anti-competitive tactics even though the original trial judge had already ruled those tactics in violation of antitrust law."
These three paragraphs do a good job summing up Microsoft's arrogant attitude and give the reader a feel for just how far the Bush administration has shifted the judicial system's attitude toward Microsoft.
This memo shows a blatant disregard for the law. The fact that Judge Kollar-Kotelly suppresses evidence clearly showing wrong doing that is highly relevant to the case demonstrates it is unlikely that the American people will see justice done in this case.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
So how long should email be stored?
Why isn't there a policy to discuss things that might get you in hotwater face to face? Shouldn't anyone using any email system, or other system that leaves permanent recordings, assume that their communications are public, and moderate their messages accordingly?
BTW, this isn't a LEAKED memo. Microsoft has no choice but to turn over any and all relevent documents during 'discovery'. Both sides get to haggle over what is relevent.
Executive Memo, To all Employees and Personnel of Microsoft, NO MORE GODDAMN MEMOS! Signed, Steve Balmer (With Bill Gates hand up my ass like a puppet)
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
I prefer to say it in pictures .
Just too bad they left out BeOS and OS X.
MS should advertise Linux. NO! They means Dell. As in the company I was just talking about... Are you trolling or just stupid? If you are going to sell a product, it is a good idea to let people know about it, otherwise you don't sell any.
"Da ist ein Technölüst in mein Unterpanten!"
This would be like McDonalds threatening to stop purchasing meat from a beef company if said company continues to sell beef to Burger King. If McDonalds had a (NEAR) monopoly on fast food then the beef company would lose a lot of their revenue and be forced to treat Burger King unfairly and thrus McDonalds would be taken to court!
A reverse example would be if the beef company had a NEAR monoply on the beef market and could tell other fast food restruants to no longer purchase beef from other companies knowing that if resturants did not follow their orders that they would not be able to purchase enough meat to fill their demands.
Companies DO NOT behave this way because its illegal! Its illegal because its unfair!
Microsoft is abusing its position and hurting consumers! This MUST be addressed if the technology sector of the economy is to continue to flourish, otherwise Microsoft will have it all under lock down.
Open Source, Open Standards, Open Minds
Sisth has spoken....all those who oppose Microsoft shall be crushed. bow to our master.
Maybe they thought they just got unlucky with the last time being Halloween...
Liberty uber alles.
This case is a frequent topic of debate for me and my right wing uncle. He's of the opinion that Microsoft should be at the top not only for making a supposedly better product but for their business dealings. He sees everything their doing completely legitimate for business standards.
/. crowd but maybe to the general public that MS is strong arming the computer industry. It just seems that's everyday business and good business to them.
What I can't get him to understand though is I don't consider Microsoft doing business. Isn't the point of a free economy to stimulate innovation and make sure the best product is the one being produced? I know the current business ethics aren't what my (or maybe most people's) idea should be, but does that mean we should cooperate with the status quo?
Business isn't making an inferior product then letting strong arming or legislation protect your market share, or in this case monopoly.
It's so obvious and just not to the
Abiit, excessit, evasit, erupit.
The problem is that Microsoft has a monopoly in the desktop OS market. People pretty much have to deal with them if they want to be compatible with everyone else. Not to mention the fact that it's pretty damn hard to buy a PC from a major dealer that doesn't include Windows in the price. Until we have an administration with the balls to really put the shackles on Micrsoft (and if you believe in free markets, you should be behind this since such markets don't work without a significant level of competition) they will continue to laugh off these settlements and go right back to business as usual. I'd like to ask the DOJ what exactly there is in the settlement that would prevent them from doing just that. I expect they could not provide any response other than that they think Microsoft will actually comply this time. Fools.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Are you serious? Or just trolling?
Really? Then how exactly do you explain their billions of dollars in sales, versus, say, Redhat's few million?
Anticompetitive business practices.
Most people don't care. They just want the best product at the best value.
Which implies a choice and the ability to choose. A concept that a monopolist cannot stand.
Get a clue. Every company is run the same way.
But every company does not have monopoly control of the market.
I really hope that you do that much research into the internal workings of Colgate-Palmolive before you buy your toothpaste.
This is not a valid comparison because they have competitors.
What if Colgate could work some kind of scheme such that anyone buying toothpaste had to pay Colgate, regardless of which toothpaste they wanted to buy? This would drive all competitors out of the market. If I bought Crest, I would have to pay for Crest, and for Colgate. If I bought Colgate, I would only have to pay for Colgate. This is how MS got to where they are. Not through providing superior products.
Today, they have superior products. But only because they can pour buckets of money into development. Money they can extort at artificially high prices due to lack of any competition.
Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
Obviously your post was tongue-in-cheek, but in my experience, there are a lot of users who, out of sheer ignorance (or unwillingness to accept the truth) believe this way.
And that is precisely how the BIG LIE works.
What's sad is that nothing is going to be done that will even scratch MS. The only remedy that had a chance of even starting to level the playing field in the industry was splitting them up, and that was shot down. That leaves fines and a restriction on their business practices. No fine levied will even touch MS's cash reserve, and we already saw how effective restrictions are from the last time around with the consent decree.
.technomancer
It's also true that dirty tricks remain dirty tricks. And people with any ethics avoid them.
Yes, it is only recognized as a crime (depending, of course, on exactly what "dirty trick" you are referring to) if you are a monopoly (and you are convicted). So? If laws are the basis of your morality, then you don't have one. If laws are the basis of your ethics, then you don't have any.
That said, there's a big difference between a baseball fan shouting "Kill the umpire" and someone who gets out a gun. They may use the same words, but the intentions, motivations, and goals aren't at all the same. One is ethical and moral (if a bit overheated). The other isn't. And the difference isn't a matter of law (though the law does, indeed, attend to the difference).
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
And free software, in general, has a huge efficiency advantage. So it gives us poor smart people help in pursuing wealth as well.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Not entirely true, it turns out. See what AMD has to say about this (source at bottom):
Source:X P.jspa
http://athlonxp.amd.com/overview/microsoftWindows
Trusted Computing FAQ | Free Dawit Isaak!
water is wet.
As if the buddy-buddy stuff between Sanders and Microsoft at the trial hasn't sickened me already. And I was so looking forward to this.
Hmm.. Intel bad? AMD good? I'll have to think about that.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I read all these posts mentioning about how the CPU companies are in bed totally with MS. WHY NOT? Hardware companies dont care much for the software aspect, except that driver creation sucks away profits (unless they actually sell software).
Now lets look at the x86 market. We have AMD and Intel. For a while, MS played nice with Intel. Now AMD is big buddy. Truthfully, BOTH of these companies have to be sweet and nice to MS. Why? 1 reason:
if CPU_ID != "Friendly x86 company"
then GPF
What if, for some strange reason, on the next windows, the bad chip company doesnt work cause they didnt support certain functions??? Chip companies that deal with MS know they easily can do that. Its not like MS would get in trouble.
I read on CNN or somewhere that Microsoft had enough ;o) Give me those 60's Apollo computers any day over 'doze
j /c ompessay.htm
cash now ($43b) to build 20 space shuttles. Well
that ought to be the punishment! Make them build 20
shuttles and get us to Mars. Though I wouldn't want
to fly in ne shuttle running any NT software
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/ap15f
How long has the Linux community been a monopoly?
Your idea that a free market would be achieved by "really put[ting] the shackles on Microsoft" is interesting. In a truly free market system, being one in which there is no government intervention in the economy, monopolies can exist only as temporary aberrations. If you think Windows costs too much now, why don't you go ahead add to that sticker price the hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer money that the DOJ and the states are spending on these pointless lawsuits, the outcomes of which will be totally irrelevant by the time the suits are settled.
"Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure." --Robert LeFevre
Also I heard that linux hackers open sourced the Microsoft BSD crypto monopoly.... [courtesy of Penny-Arcade]....
If anyone believes this tripe then they should query my bridge I have for sale...
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
What can one say that hasn't already been said in this case? What more other misdeeds can be brought to light? It seems MS can do anything they please - threaten, bribe, steal, cheat, extort, lie in court - and nothing is ever done to them. Is the reason Enron and Anderson are in court because they went broke or because they broke they law and swindled other people's money away? It seems as long as these huge companies are churning out campaign contributions and employing people, nothing will ever be done to them.
So sad if one isn't a huge corporation. So sad to see a whole county's justicial system be turned into an empty shell of mockery.
The date on the supposed memo is August of 2000. At that point in time, they probably didn't think much of the problem of everyone and their brother reading their internal memos, memos that typically don't go outside the company, as the name suggests. As for asking "when will they learn?", that's not really a valid point, again, given the time at which the memo was written. I forget exactly when the US gov sued MS, but if I recall it had either not happened yet or was just starting to get serious, not giving them enough time to "learn" not to send memos of this nature.
Please, before you take a shot, check that it's a good, clean shot beforehand. Don't need any collateral damage. Injure too many civvies and it's your rear.
"Cactus Ed Abbey" may have said that too, but certainly Diderot said it first.
Ummm, no. A free market is one in which suppliers can enter freely. You're making up the part about 'no government intervention', and the part about monopolies existing as a temporary aberrations. There is no support for your statement in economic theory, and there is considerable evidence from history that it isn't true, unless your definition of 'temporary' is 'decades long'.
I heard this recently on CBC's As it happens (it's the story about Air North and their expanding service to the 'South').
In Canada we're dealing with the Air-Canada monopoly which is making things very risky for new airline startups. However, the Yukon government recently tabled a policy where they will explicitly avoid doing business with companies that engage in unfair practices (such as flooding the market with cheap seats for the purpose of driving a competitor out of business). A similar policy in American governments might help keep the little guys trying to get a leg up on MS.
I'm in my right mind and I have the answer to everything!
that the word "Poppycock", is the ugliest word I have ever heard!
The last big monopoly break-up resulted in a zillion different little phone companies, each with the intent of having me switch my long distance carrier, usually, right in the middle of dinner. What would happen if MS were actually broken up? Would I start getting OS CD's in the mail as frequently as I got invitations from MCI, AT&T, Sprint and all the rest? Screw it! I have enough AOL coasters to last me a lifetime.
]fud_engine -stat
:)
fud set to 10
]fud_engine 1000
People who use open source software are
communist-anti American deviants, amd those
who don't point and click like a good little
users and dare use the command line or use
utiltites that arnen't approved and use
unprotected/untrusted hardware must be 31337
4nT1 k0rpEraT3 73rR0r1s7 |-|a>0rZ
Actually, maybe the memos DON'T always some back to haunt them... only the few we hear about...;-)
No, seriously, it's possible that all kinds of funny shit in going on behind closed doors at MS, and we'll never hear about it.
Come on, give it up, that's
A most excellent troll, sir. You managed to insult Linux and Microsoft at the same time and caused at this moment 7 flames, several of which erupted in nerd wars. I give this troll a 4 out of 5.
How many of the Trolls and Microsoft astroturfers here are actually on the payroll of MS? Years ago, in OS/2 forums on Compuserve there were MS employees talking OS/2 down but not revealing their affiliation with MS. Does anybody seriously believe that their tactics have changed?
>monopolies can exist only as temporary aberrations.
Could you explain to me how the situation can change?
Companies won't develop for an unpopular platform. A platform won't become popular with the average user without companies developing for it. To me it seems like an endless circle that will continue unless the monopoly goes under somehow by pure chance. Say, Bill Gates the 15th trades pieces of it for magic beans or something. I think it's been seen that no matter how inferior microsofts products are at any one time, people will keep on using it.
I mean look at BE, they had a faster and more stable operating system than microsoft at the time, they 'gave' the operating system away for free, and still almost no one bothered to try it.
Everything will be taken away from you.
free market
n.
An economic market in which supply and demand are not regulated or are regulated with only minor restrictions.
I guess since a free market has never existed anywhere, ever you have a point that I don't have history on my side. Do you think we have a free market in the United States? I don't. This isn't my theory, it started with Adam Smith.
My definition of temporary is 'not permanent', so, yeah, 'decades long' qualifies.
"Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure." --Robert LeFevre
"...because it's one of their execs openly spouting off like that when he SHOULD have kept his mouth shut "
/. is because people love to hate MS. Yadda yadda yadda.
Umm his job as an executive is to come up with ideas on how to stay in business. Contraversial? Oh yeah! But no proof has been provided showing that any crime has been committed. Frankly, the only reason its interesting to
They really should provide evidence instead of trying to propaganda MS to death.
'MS told Gateway not to sell computers without Windows' -- that is evidence.
'Somebody at MS said they shouldnt allow Gateway to sell computers without Windows' -- not a crime. Free speech. Expression of ideas. No proven illegal action.
I know Ill probably get modded down for this. So just to be clear, Im not saying MS isnt doing anything wrong, IM saying that *this particular piece of 'evidence'* is not very interesting. Its sad that they're using stuff like this to prove intentions instead of using facts to prove guilt.
"Derp de derp."
A monopolized market is not a free market. A truely free market has few (if any) barriers to entry or exit of the market and little (if any) regulation of how one conducts business in that market.
A market controlled by a monopoly or a cartel is essentially the same as a government regulated market. If the government controls your market or if a monopoly controls your market its going to have the same effect: high prices and crappy service -- because new businesses are not free to innovate and compete.
If you think about it, there's little difference between the Microsoft controlled software market and the state controlled markets in a communist country.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
No competition ?
Strange, one of my friend had told me a few monthes ago about an operating system called Linux, he touted that this OS was more stable, more secure, it would run on my machine and I could do almost anything I wanted.
But then, I decided to buy a Mac instead...
No competition ?
You put that well. I agree with you, mostly.
Get a clue. Every company is run the same way.
But every company does not have monopoly control of the market.
Nope. Every company isn't run the same way. In what way is RedHat or Mandrake anti-compative?
This is how MS got to where they are. Not through providing superior products.
True. Even though they didn't really make the break-through products themselves (think CP/M and DOS, OS/2 and NT).. But,
Today, they have superior products.
*duuut!* Wrong. How is Windows (3x/95/98/2000/NT/XP or whatever) a superior OS (apart from popularity)? Why is Internet Explorer a superior web-browser? Please explain to me, what makes IIS a superior web server over Apache?
The way Microsoft does buisniss is way unaccaptable. If Microsoft wants "world domination" they better do it by making the superior products. This is why FreeBSD and Linux and other free, and in my opinion, superior OSes will eventually will have "world domination".
Can't you see that it is changing?
I really think that most people are unjustifiably pessimistic about Microsoft's influence in the software market. They are already being undone by their arrogance and inflexibility. Windows users, even if they are a mob of subhumans as so many slashbots seem to think, are sick and tired of the unending Microsoft "upgrade" treadmill. Microsoft is making a fatal error in increasing the churn of this process because of sagging Windows sales which are due to--surprise!--sagging PC sales. People are used to having to pay for Windows when they buy a new computer, yes. People are not used to having to buy a new version of Windows to put on the Dell they just bought six months ago. Microsoft is showing its inflexibility by trying to force consumers to buy their product, instead of by making them want it. It's already the beginning of the end for Windows, and Microsoft will probably be the last to know.
"Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure." --Robert LeFevre
Yes, it is happening! And faster than you think. Okay, I can just give anecdotal evidence but consider this: last year I worked as a Consultant at a major german bank and one of my fellow consultants bought a TiBook. Everybody was impressed. Last christmas I bought myself a iBook (sorry, TiBook is not in my budget and the iBook is sooo cute)
But it doesn't stop here: last month I went back to the bank and behold! One of the IT guys bought himself an iBook too and one of his coworkers was drooling over our iBooks...I'm pretty sure that he'll succomb too.
Wait this is not all... The iBook is my personal machine and I take it to work...You can't imagine how many IT-coworkers drool over it. Better yet, I had some management types informing themselves: they thought it wasn't compatible with anything. Showed them what it could do (including Samba, now that freaked them out...), told them about Office (Microsoft, okay), that Lotus Notes will be released for OS X, and I was able to kill some myths ("You can't do video editing on a Mac...", I nearly fell over when this guy told me this....)
Besides, my Mac has often saved our day, because it is the only Unix machine on our network (besides an old RS/6000 running AIX). There are so many things that Windows doesn't let me do...
Is it for the smart and rich? :-)
This post will be modded down for no particular reason by a sweaty 14 year old who is not allowed out past dark.
What?!? I am s'posed to be getting a check from MS for doing all this? I better start making some calls about backpay...
Michael Loves Me!
heh...
what's next?
bill with the golden gun?
-JAPAN: ol yor beys ar bilong tu as! -AH!
No Competition?
You're talking about now.
You must be too young to remember how things were in 1982.
Microsoft killed off all their competition with inferior products.
If you have only recently joined the party now that the evil deed is acomplished, and you don't know how they got to where they are, then you must wonder why a company that is rich and makes reasonably good products is so bad?
Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
The average MS Windows user doesn't really give a flying fsck.
;)
What's Intel going to do, stop supporting MS products?
AMD would love that.
They won't, because memos don't always get out. You only hear about the ones that do.
The really incriminating stuff never gets typed up in the first place. Verbal only. (The CIA manual on assassination offers similar advice. Never put anything seriously incriminating in writing. Verbal only.)
Even if something seriously incriminating did make it to writing, it might never see the light of day. (Ask Reagan's archivists.) And if it did see the light of day, it might not be admissable in court. And even if it is admissable, it might be countered with any of 20 tactics, (like a loud "so what").
=brian
- Microsoft, States Debate Remedies (eWeek, March 18)
- Microsoft Back in Court (internet.com, March 18)
- States ask for broad sanctions on Microsoft (USA Today, March 18)
- Microsoft 'killed Dell Linux' - States (Register, March 19)
- Microsoft pressured Dell to drop Linux (The Inquirer, March 19)
- Microsoft caught in the anti-Linux act (vnunet.com, March 19)
And these web sites:- Case Filings
- District Court Opinions
But no luck. Where did they get the quotes from the memo?'Butt' now that I think about it, that idea stinks...
We suffer (we as in Linux users/developers) because we play fair, and Microsoft don't. If they wanted to play like MS, Apache would "embrace and extend" something in the HTTP protocol which all browsers except IE would support. Then they would force IE users to download the patch/fix from Apache - quoting licensing conditions or something - I dunno. But we're nice and friendly, and tell everyone what we're doing. That's why it's easy to fuck us. Nice guys always finish last, remember?
Get your own free personal location tracker
Modern law in the Western World is based on the notion that The Law, The Truth and Justice are seperate and unrelated concepts, with Truth and Justice being outside the scope of the courts. And if you believe that anything sensible can come from such an insane view you are part of the problem.
To quote Don Henley quoting the bard, "Old Billy was right. Let's kill all the lawyers, let's kill 'em tonight."
Really, at this point it is the only way out. Until we are ready to kill every lawyer, judge and congressman, raze the law schools, burn all of the lawbooks and just start the hell over, reformulating a new code of laws from scratch, we are going to remain screwed. Every lawyer now practicing is hopelessly tainted by notions incompatible with civilization.
If we are too enlightened to kill em all we can at least brand a big L on their forehead which would prohibit them from holding office, voting or working within 100 yards of a law office, courthouse, bar where people in the new legal profession hang out, educational institution or anywhere else their perverted ideas might resurface or try to infect the next generation.
And before you mod this as flamebait, lets hear YOUR ideas to fix the current mess we are in with out 'legal system.'
Democrat delenda est
THis stuff never sticks, and what better way to announce to the industry that retaliation will happen?
It's pretty obvious all around. Hardware boxes almost never mention linux, even when a company does support it. And, when they do, the support never comes directly from them.
M$'s strategies are so bold and, franky, impressive that I'd be very surprised if it really was an unintentional leak.
tellin MS employees to infilterate non MS newsgroups and messages boards that have a focus on other platforms....(I.E. Slashdot)
No, the dumb and rich. Why else would they pay too much for the hardware?
The only way I can see this tactic working is if the companies *knew* that Microsoft was being hard on them specifically for their support of Linux.
I mean, there's nothing too unusual about the legal departments reading contracts the way they want to anyway, right? If I'm a company that gets shut out this way, I'm not going to think to myself first thing, "If only I hadn't released a driver for Linux, they'd be nice to me."
Ergo, they needed to leak this memo, if it's real at all. The whole point of this passive-agressive behaviour was to do it in an inconspicuous way - this document is the only clue a company would have as to why they're getting shut out.
Leaked. Leaked 100%.
GMFTatsuin
Which just goes to show you how much slashdot mods want people to speak their opinion.
I doubt that Linux developers have the time to write "Let's get Microsoft!", though. They seem too busy developing the OS to participate in the "We have an inferior product, let's squash the competition" insanity that goes on behind the doors of some other developers. =]
You don't visit Slashdot very often, do you?
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
I hope the old saying is right
You got it wrong, MS doesn't want computers, MS wants set top boxes (or ones inside every tv). Well they want everything, but that is their ultimate goal, and has been at least since ~95.
And take a look at who is the new chip for the Xbox. And intel is almost being forced into making a chip compatiable to AMDs hammer.
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive
Oh, so MS said that it was ok? Well, I feel much better now. They have such a great reputation for being honest. Sorry we got worked up over nothing.
If this memo, and the behaviour that it endorses, worries you, let me pile it on: neither of the two proposed remedies is likely to correct this kind of corporate culture at Microsoft, at least in the near term.
This is because, no matter how heinous their actions, Intel will never complain to the States or the DoJ about Microsoft. Intel needs Microsoft too much to risk it.
Once upon a time the OEMs feared Intel, because processor supplies were short and Intel was the monopoly. The crossover begain happening in the mid-90s, beginning with Windows95, as Microsoft consolidated their control over the market with well-known highly-restrictive licensing terms.
This is when Microsoft first got a taste for directly threatening Intel, and by manipulating Intel by threatening OEMs. Nothing has changed since then, except that Intel has lost even more market share to AMD, and Microsoft has become more powerful.
Intel continues to hedge its bets (on the server only!) by supporting Linux, but everything desktop-related at Intel is 100% pro-Microsoft, and most of the execs there don't see a problem with that, and wouldn't complain about retaliation even if they did.
Now, don't get me wrong, the States' proposal is much better, in that (theoretically) it would allow an anonymous or confidential complaint to the Special Master, but in practice it's hard to imagine Intel using even that venue.
Bottom line: Linux developers and supporters -- don't look to the anti-trust settlement to stop the dirty tricks. Learn to live with them. Learn to love them. Learn jujitsu.
gn
You're still living in 1982? Grow up man. You fucking socialists never stop whining, do you?
And even when you did buy Colgate you would also have to buy their toothbrushes and dental floss and go to their dentist.
That would explain the many pro-microsoft comments
on slashdot.org
lots of people see this but the states need help
> In what way is RedHat or Mandrake anti-compative?
:)
I agree with the above post, but just have to point out that money RH was offering for people to switch over from Mandrake and SuSE over to their distro.
The subsidy argument would be valid if this was a fair fight. It's not. We don't know if other companies are really able to compete with Microsoft or not, because the bastards keep cheating (monopoly practices).
When you can't reason with the schoolyard bully ("Now William, you mustn't do that any more"), get a bigger bully. Looks like IBM has been lifting weights again.
Let's say: Colgate tastes much better, say, than Crest, but Crest works better. Crest is also a lot cheaper. People don't want Crest though, they want the better-tasting Colgate.
Let's also say toothbrush manufacturers bundle Colgate toothpaste with their toothbrushes. Now everybody pays for the inferior-quality Colgate, whether they want to or not.
Could Intel use this as the basis of a suite against Microsoft even if the anti-trust trial does nothing? I assume they've known about this for a long time, but couldn't publicly act on it and now possibly could?
I think that Microsoft needs Intel as much as Intel needs Microsoft at the moment. AMD has a large market share but I doubt it has the larger one and Intel could theoretically exert a lot of pressure on OEMs as well, especially if they keep up their current lead in CPU clock cycles (good for the press and share price), in Notebooks and in servers.
Two groups:
Slashdot posters.
Linux kernel developers.
The overlap between these two sets: none.
deus does not exist but if he does
Operating systems are like women: a bunch of filthy whores! Thanks for putting it all in perspective.
That is about the time Intel switched from Russel Calander Manager (on VAX) to Outlook. It is largely looked upon by employees as a downgrade. Outlook regularly looses apointments for me. I work nights. It calls today yesterday in the wee hours of the morning. I frequently find I missed a meeting. (For those working nights, Outlook has a bad habit of not showing the current day by default in the wee hours of the morning.) The best time to schedule a meeting to be missed is about 2 AM. If you open outlook at about 1 am to check for a meeting, you will still be looking at the prior day's calander. Opening outlook at 4 AM will let you know you missed the overdue meeting. Russel Calander Manager could be set up with confrence rooms as users. You could make appointments with them and others to schedule the room on a first come basis. If you were second, the room would decline the meeting letting you know right away it wasn't avaliable. Outlook can not do that as it requires a person (on dayshift) to confirm or decline the meeting. This is the fault of a mail based community calander. An online calander works much better. This frequently causes double booking of a confrence room as several groups become scheduled do not get confirmatin of use of a room until after the meeting. Don't even get me started on the virus distribution system and the number of mail outages since the migration. We traded functionality, usability, and reliability for a pretty interface.
OK off the rant and back to the subject. Why did we downgrade and not back out when it failed to perform? Why was Netscape dropped and even disabled at the same time? Probably the same reason Microsoft gives as a claim the threat was a mute point as they didn't have to act on it. Intel caved and went MS for browser, calander/mail, factory automation. I forgot to mention factory automation was based on Java on Netscape. That all changed at about the same time with it's share of hiccups. No reason was given for the decision even though I asked for one. Many people asked when we will migrate back to RCM for scheduling confrence rooms.
Posting anonymously to protect my job!
Could someone explain how this differs from standard business practice? Should they support their competitors?
I remember what it was like in 1982. I remember what it was like to own a computer system that was totally incompatible with what others had.
I remember what it was like to have to buy software to load onto your Morrow so you could read Osborne and Kaypro diskettes.
I remember what it was like to be handed a diskette with a Supercalc spreadsheet on it and wonder what you were going to do with it because you didn't have access to an Apple II.
I remember what it was like to buy a TI Personal Computer which promised to run MS-DOS, but wasn't really compatible with any other PCs running DOS and required software compiled just for the TI.
I remember dumping that TI PC in the trash, along with all the software because it was totally incompatible with the new Zenith systems we had bought.
If I sit for a while I could probably remember about AmiPro and the upgrade to WordPro that Lotus released which had memory leaks so bad you could only work with it about an hour at a time before closing it down and restarting, and how wonderfully this was received by the magazine reviewers.
You know the more I remember those times, the less I want to go back. Thank you for showing me how much easier my world is now that consumers have adopted Microsoft's inferior products.
I love Slashdot... it's so full of half-thoughts and knee-jerking.
The denizens of Slashdot declare that MS's monopoly is wrong. At the same time, MS is dead, and Linux has taken over.
Funny, I thought that the definition of a monopoly is NO competition.
So which is it kids? Is there a monopoly, in which case Linux is an abject failure, or is Linux a success, in which case there really is no monopoly?
"Not to mention the fact that it's pretty damn hard to buy a PC from a major dealer that doesn't include Windows in the price." - damn near impossible short of building your own PC from component parts!
"they think Microsoft will actually comply this time" - if the DoJ ever think this they are more naive than anyone gives them credit for!
Video Game cheats, hints a
Memo to deintist:
Talk to patient about how dangerour Crest is. Seed some cavities, as well, while you're at it.
Colgate CTO
Put identity in the browser.
Slashdot is behind closed doors now? This is news to me. Also, while probably a lot of Linux developers read, and some even post here, i don't believe the majority of /. readers to be linux developers.
You don't visit LKML very often, do you?
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
Among other things it is the difference between murder and accidental homicide.
Every piece of evidence that shows Microsoft's intentions is interesting.
Well, if a free market system allows monopolies to exist and harm consumers for decades, then count me out. Sounds like a pretty crappy system.
I think those "memos" are actually planted by people trying to get back at Microsoft.
So I think the reverse is true from what this article says. Yes, they damage Microsoft but they were not written by "real" employees. Who's to say though...
I might believe that when Microsoft's marketshare drops below 90%. The problem is not just Windows, but Office as well. People use Windows because that's how they can run Office. They could use a Mac too, but that's at least as expensive thanks to Apple's proprietary hardware. The only other alternative had to be developed for free by thousands of people around the globe. There's no way any company could have done it without being driven out of business by Microsoft. Be is a perfect example of that. They had a better OS, but they couldn't get anyone to develop for it because there was no user base, and there was no user base because nobody developed for it. The government is supposed to prevent monopolies from harming consumers. The government is not doing its job. We pay the price.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Microsoft is capitalism. In it purest.
Capitalism doesn't work for the best of majority.
Blaming communism for everything bad is just stupid.
MS fun to pick on I suppose.. Though all this article says to me is "MS has competetitors. MS competes with them." Trying to undermine the competition is not quite an uncommon practice I dont think. Even this particular tactic, from what we know only through the media, is comparitavely everyday practice- even if it didnt make most of the buieness 101 textbooks.
Microsoft is a corporation of a closed developing system and a bunch of paranoid executives.
Linux is a community of an open developing system with a bunch of developers who couldnt care less about how their work helps the community to grow.
Why does Microsoft, the closed source one, always seem to leech ideas off of linux, the open source one, and call them its own? Short examples being autotab directory completion and hardware interaction layers to allow for device driver load without a system reboot.
I think that microsoft is sucking in more ways than one...
"The most sucessful operating system is not one who can eliminate its competitors, but live with them."
99% of linux users are microsoft customers.
"only for games." yeah, right.
I remember how things were in 1982 -- the only thing reasonably compatible across different systems was Microsoft BASIC. Draw a straight line from there to here.
So your theory is that free amrkets allow for monoplies to exist for decades right? How does one topple a monopoly that has been entrenched for decades if not by the force of law? It's impossible.
War is necrophilia.
Why the hell would MickeySoft want to undermine Intel? Intel moves Windows into people's homes. You don't see Dell or Gateway shipping any AMD systems do you? It's called Wintel (tm) for a reason kiddies!
Mod away...
thank God allmighty I am free at last. No more crap windows boxen around here. I am happy to report that the last holdout (an athlon gaming and pron box) has been transformed into a nice RH box and will join the ranks of the OpenBSD and Debian boxen he shares a room with. Unreal Tournament works, and I am pleased to report that for the first time I have successfully masturbated to streaming pron on a 'Nix box courtesty of Xine and RH. Whew, I feel so much better now.
"When will they learn that these memos always come back to haunt them ..."
When will Slashdot learn that if they continue to pass such unfounded BS, they will go the way of the inquirer.
Slashdot is really becoming the trailerpark of the internet.
Whoever posted the link in the comment about a memo that Bill Gates had written to his employees, should take that link out, it costs money to go that link now, 29.95. Why should we pay to go to a website.
Kevin
Last time i checked, there was a current version of ms office and acrobat especially for the mac.
Maybe I read all those boxes in the mac section of Compusa wrong.
I'm definitely not a lawyer, so correct me where I am wrong.
From what I understand, the vast majority of Microsoft's actions have normally been legal. Corporations naturally (and legally) tend to do all they can to make as much money as they can. In fact, there are certain stipulations that compel company leadership to act in the best interests of the company (and the shareholders). Just about all of the pressure Microsoft has brought to bear on other companies is normally legal, even if it isn't nice. Nearly all companies act similarly when given the opportunity -- Microsoft has just had more opportunities and has taken the initiative. In some cases, their behavior has been shady and even quite possibly illegal. But I don't know enough about the specifics...
The change came when Microsoft was found to have abused its monopoly position. Microsoft is quite definitely a monopoly -- it is subject to competition, and could lose its monopoly position quickly if something crazy were to happen. But the courts determined that not only was Microsoft a monopoly, but was guilty of abusing that position.
At this point, normal business rules cease to apply. But what replaces them? Well, the antitrust laws are actually quite vague. There is some precedent in previous cases. But for the most part, there really isn't anything that says what a Monopoly can and cannot do, nothing that gives a definition of "abuse of monopoly power," and no standard to determine when a situation has been rectified.
A normal business can always bring pressure to bear on partner businesses. It is a standard business tactic. However, Microsoft was warned that certain kinds of pressure would not be tolerated. But I will leave it to the lawyers who have seen the exact wording of all of the injunctions to determine exactly what they were prohibited from doing.
In any case, it appears that one of the higher-ups started suggesting bringing pressure to bear against Intel. Microsoft and Intel are mutual cash-cows. He was suggesting using "standard business practice" (some pressure) to remind Intel that Microsoft was a good company to keep as an ally. In a non-monopoly situation, this would be fine (perhaps not good business tactics, and it has the potential of damaging the relationship between the companies, but it would probably be legal).
In Microsoft's case, with antitrust litigation pending, other VPs apparently determined that it might be wise to curtail heavy-handed tactics. So nothing was done. So the email was just free speech and nothing more. So nothing illegal happened here. So it was probably a reasonable objection.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
So which is it kids? Is there a $situation1, in which case $conclusion1, or is $situation2, in which case $conclusion2?
The readership of slashdot? Inconsistent?
This may come as a complete surprise to you, but slashdot readers have independent ideas. Unlike television, or newspapers, or other forms of mass-media you may be familiar with, on slashdot you will find more than one conclusion drawn from a set of information. Even more shocking is the fact that the people drawing these conclusions are willing to express them, openly discuss alternatives and even (occasionally) change their minds when given more information.
So either go back to your cosy little BBC/ABC/MSNBC/TimeWarner world where all things are safe, sure and certain, or read through the conflicting opinions, grow a brain, and join the discussion.
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, Or close the wall up with our American dead!
Last!!!
>"When will they learn that these memos always come back to haunt them" I hope they don't because /. will close.
It was only a joke. I myself much prefer Linux to Windows and dislike MS attitude very much. But when I read some folks who claim the same ol' arguments as the others, with no basis in the context of a discussion, I wonder how we can succeed with such a lack of imagination.
I'd rather be sailing...
Wow! A paid Shill! Cool!
How's it feel to sell out, dude?
Wow. Neat. I can't wait to tell my mom I talked to a paid MS shill today.
Zoober
I find it fascinating how willfully you wish to lose an argument by discrediting yourself so.
I'm a troll.
Duh.
Zoober.
Except maybe Alan Cox, who I've seen post here from time to time.
-------
"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
Up until this point, you had me agreeing with you.
It used to be I would agree with you, or at least not contradict you outright. But recently, I've been forced to deal with Microsoft's products. Now I know better. Just for reference, I've been a rabid OS/2 user, a Mac admin (and programmer), and I'm still currently a Linux guru. Microsoft's products have by far been the least superior of any software I have ever used. To put it another way, Microsoft's products are not superior to anything I've ever seen.
Microsoft has succeeded on anti-competitive practices alone, which is sad, because with their power and resources they could do so much more. But I guess that wouldn't be profitable, now would it?
Nathan's blog
"Because it looks neat!"