As a programmer, what pisses me off most about subversion is... well just check out their codebase and look around a bit. Yeah, it works and it does 90% of what people want it to, but the code is a giant piece of shit. That svn has been developed as a total hack job and they seemingly have spent no effort over time trying to clean it up, as a programmer, offends me. I don't know how anybody can have confidence in svn when they can't even do simple changes to it.
Dear programmer, I'm very sorry that you feel offended by our code. If you have some time to spare even though you
must be working on very important projects, please provide patches that make our code less offensive to you and other programmers.
But maybe you were actually reading CVS's code and thought you were reading Subversion's?:)
They've been working for years to do simple things like just updating their folder structure so it doesn't leave ".svn" folders everywhere.
Er, no. Nobody has been working on that. Central meta data storage is one of the things being discussed for the new
working copy library. IMHO the.svn folders scattered around the working copy is a misfeature we've inherited
from CVS. But I can't blame those who made that decision (I joined the project about a year ago so I wasn't
around at the time). Since their goal was to create a better CVS, many of CVS's design aspects were copied.
We can still fix this, though. When the working copy rewrite happens, you'll get your central meta data storage,
don't worry.
Or just providing an option to not store a second copy of your 2 gig repository just so you can do restore to Head (and that's all) without asking the svn server which is probably over in the closet on the gigabit ethernet anyway. They can't do this with their current code...
You're trying to make it sound like you knew what you were talking about, but you are using the terms all wrong.
We're not storing a "second copy of your 2 gig repository", we're storing copies of what your files look like at the BASE revision (the one you checked out). This speeds up creating diffs, it has nothing to with the HEAD revision. What do you mean
by "doing a restore to HEAD"? Also note that the working copy cannot tell what current HEAD looks like without asking the server, since it cannot magically see commits made by other people.
it's so bad that they are trying to scrap the local store code entirely.
Yep, we know the current working copy code sucks. There, I said it.
It's a big piece of code that has evolved over time and got a lot of functionality lumped into it
without proper design. Work is being done to fix this, see http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/trunk/notes/wc-ng-design
... and then there are the even simpler things like why tf can't I say "svn mv *.[ch] newfolder/" or any of the other commands that you have to use shell scripting to accomplish? That kind of thing should be simple.
I wonder why this does not work for you, it does for me:
$ svnadmin create repos
$ svn co file:///tmp/repos wc
$ cd wc
$ echo a > a.c
$ echo b > b.h
$ svn add a.c b.h
A a.c
A b.h
$ svn ci -m "added some files"
Adding a.c
Adding b.h
Transmitting file data..
Committed revision 1.
$ svn mkdir newfolder
A newfolder
$ svn mv *.[ch] newfolder
A newfolder/a.c
D a.c
A newfolder/b.h
D b.h
There are a lot of these kinds of problems in svn that never gets fixed
As is the case with virtually every other software in existence -- every software has problems.
(despite having a guy at google that is apparently paid to hack on svn)
Who is this one super magic wizard guy? Quite a few Subversion developers are employed by several companies (not just google).
:)
I know there are other ways to get south park episodes, but
I was specifically referring to the streams at http://www.southparkstudios.com/
There is possibly more content out there streamed via RTMP, which (I think) is
currently inaccessible to software other than Adobe's Flash, right?
Right, but also say YES to good quality open specs (I don't know if the ones in question are good quality).
In the long run, a good open spec for a file format is a much more useful to developers than an open source
program that uses an otherwise undocumented file format. Having to look up magic numbers and offsets in other
peoples' code all the time just plain sucks. The best you can do is writing up a spec based on examination of
the code, and use that for your own development. This extra work is unnecessary if you have a spec in the first place.
Does anyone know whether "SWF and FLV/F4V specification", " Flash Cast" and "AMF" (all mentioned in the FAQ)
include RTMP in some way? In other words, will these specs help us watch south park with free software?
Best windows crash I've seen so far was when I travelled Italy -- a blue screen on a f** massive advertising screen at the central place of a mid-sized Italian city. Now that is marketing:)
I'm fairly convinced that they do: http://stealthisfilm.com/Part2/ Very interesting film, worth watching. It's a bit like The Matrix, but in our reality. And it's not made in Hollywood:)
I'm not a friend of DRM, but it's likely to stay around for a while
Have you seen Steal this Film II? While DRM is not its main focus there are some interesting ideas in there that have heavy repercussions on DRM. If you follow that film's arguments, the public simply won't accept DRM any more than people did accept censoring of content back when the printing press first came around. You had to get a state-approved license if you wanted to print a book. These kinds of laws didn't really manage to stay around for a long time though. I really hope history is repeating itself here.
OTOH I haven't really come across any DRM'd content worth consuming yet. I guess back than books might have had relatively more important content than mainstream media today (e.g. books helped to bring about the french revolution while today's mainstream media is mostly about making a few rich people even richer).
In related news, semantically reversed article headlines now include slashdot!
Also, the summary is highly misleading. This is not a bittorrent-based replacement for TOR as one might conclude from the summary. The browser is merely designed to conceal the IPs of people surfing websites hosting torrents by going through a proxy. You also see ads while using the service.
I wonder how long it will take ISPs with an anti-bittorrent agenda to block their proxies...
Quoting TFA's FAQ:
Can we use the internal browser to surf any site?
No. This is a very touchy subject, so I want to be very clear. Our proxy servers have a whitelist of bittorrent-related sites (trackers, index sites, etc), which it allows you to visit.
Why are there ads? Are you turning evil? This is free software!
This is free software, however, our proxy servers (which anonymizies the browsing) costs us very real dollars.
I can't download any files. What is that about?
To prevent abuse, Deluge's internal browser only allows you to download bittorrent files..
If Symantec and McAfee will let SONY hack your PC, they'll let the government hack your PC.
Can anyone recommend a virus scanner that looks after the customer rather than the virus companies one-day maybe potential business partners if they get lucky?
It seems to me that this is really a nonproblem--OOo is compatible with lots of "dead" formats (or, can read them at least), as well as many other open source office programs. I can't imagine they're going to begin throwing away this compatability--it isn't like it takes extra coding (as far as I know).
Well there is always maintenance work involved. Things change all the time, so does software. It could well be that in 20 years OOo won't support MS formats anymore for whatever reason, unless people actively work on keeping it alive in the code base. Sometimes things just stop working. For example, Linux 2.6.17 boots fine on my BP6 motherboad in SMP mode. Linux 2.6.18 only boots with one CPU, else it locks up (I still have to debug this properly). This is a classic dual Celeron motherboard, you would not expect support for it to be dropped, and I don't think someone broke it on purpose. But it happens:(
I didn't quite get how this freifunk works: does one register and then can use the network in areas that are covered or is it also necessary to contribute to the network by sharing one's internet resources?
You register one or more IPs on a website, giving an email address. The IP is then added to a whitelist. Some nodes heed this whitelist, but not all do. Everyone gets assigned an IP so it's not used twice. That's all. There's no authentication mechanism or anything. You don't have to share your internet connection if you don't want to. Many people on the network do not have their own internet connection. Many nodes just relay traffic. No obligations, no real name required, albeit you are expected to look after your own nodes especially if they aren't marked as mobile, and to keep in touch with the community and cooperate. Otherwise nobody will be willing to give you tech support or otherwise help you out. It's all voluntary.
If the police, for example, found it being used for illegal activities, then it's a different problem to find to offender, because there isn't a single nominated person who owns and is solely responsible for the connection.
There is a single person. Most uplinks are just regular private ADSL connections. They all do NAT. So from the internet you cannot tell the difference. Technically, the only difference to a regular private home wifi network is that this one is rather large, and if something bad happens on a shared uplink and the person owning it gets into legal trouble, the community will (hopefully) try to help as much as possible. Note that file sharing is frowned upon though simply because it massively disturbs the infrastructure. There's lots of layer 7 filtering going on etc. Still won't help you with child porn. It's a tradeoff between collective freedom and individual security. The community lets everyone think and make decisions about these matters on their own.
Sharing is a good thing, but unconditional sharing a net connection without checks of any kind is asking for your generosity to be abused.
Sure.
But consider this: in Berlin, there's a free as in speech wireless mesh network with more than 200 nodes. They are all more or less connected to each other and happily pass data around. A lot of them offer internet access. There's a map of the network you can look at. Now, even though this network is publicly known, freely accessible and run in a very large city with a virtually unlimited supply of people who are after doing bad stuff, as far as I know there has never been an incident so far (the network runs since about 3 years).
I know this does not invalidate your point in any way, because an incident could occur at any time. And a lot of people don't want to share their connection for the precise reasons you stated. But isn't it amazing still?
nbd is not responsible for doing this public. Noone else but me is. This was my decision. I agree that most people I talked to agreed to that decision, but if I had another opinion and didn't like to go public, it wouldn't have happened. And I still think it was right.
OK then. I still think the result of all this is a disaster, but we'll see what happens.
Please, next time, try not to feed the trolls.
I had a hard time doing this, as the troll was the main openbsd guy...
Yes, he can be hard to deal with, as can a lot of people in the Linux community.
But note that in neither case this means the whole community is hard to deal with.
I thought I'd throw you guys some peace pointers to valuable comments from the OpenBSD side of things I found on undeadly.
Note that these comments are not flames, and they were modded up! There is common ground.
Yeah, and it takes two people for a rape to happen. Fucktard.
Excellent! You've just totally proven my point. My point being that this whole thing got blown out of proportion by people
who are incapable of seeing things from more than one angle. And if faced with another one they resort to snapping, trolling,
and spouting irrelevant insults at complete strangers on the internet. And there's a variance that enjoys watching these trolls at work,
and encourages them to keep the flames coming. It's people like that who made this a big fight between the Linux and BSD communities,
no matter whether their religion is GPL or BSD or whatever. I am active in both communities, and there are a lot of
people on either side I look up to, but you, sir, are not one of them, because you are disturbing both my communities. Just go away.
It seems mb_ (Michael Buesch) is genuine in his "public has the right to know", not in a hateful manner.
Sure. I'm not saying he had bad intentions. I'm saying he should have thought about the consequences
of doing what his peers were suggesting. To me the IRC log reads as if he wanted to keep it private first but decided
to go public after someone else suggested so. And as you point out:
The only thing in mb_'s disadvantage us [..] that mb_ did expect Theo to respond in this manner.
which is exactly my (and oddly enough indirectly Theo's) point. They should have talked to mglocker in private first.
It's not smart to wake sleeping dragons. It's even worse to wake them up intentionally. It helps no one.
and that mb_ did expect Theo to respond in this manner.
Who did _not_ do this?;)
Seriously, he's known for such reactions.
Then why didn't you just leave Theo out of it? I can see from the IRC logs that you
were originally cautious about going public straight away. Actually it looks like nbd was the first
person to suggest going public (and he was smiling a sneeky smile while doing that,
note that I know nbd personally and I've sent him my opinion on what he said in your channel in private).
In retrospect I think you would have done the FOSS community a big favour by not listening
to your peers at that point. But well, as can be said about what mglocker did, shit happens.
I'm sad this story had to escalate like it did:-/ For me personally it's quite bad because
I contribute code on both sides. It's annoying to see people around you fight all the time
for stupid reasons. You can find very nice people on the OpenBSD side, just as
on the Linux side, and both sides are full of idiots that turn into trolls if you feed them.
Feeding them helps no one. Please, next time, try not to feed the trolls.
Oh get over it. Stop trying to shift blame around.
I'm not trying to shift it around. My point is that there are two sides to the coin. Most people seem to ignore that for some bizarre reason.
I will *never* have anything to do with obsd as long as such reckless and shortsighted individuals roam free in it,
And this is exactly what I mean, see? You are the same, just on the other side.
Did you know that there are actually very nice and decent people working on OpenBSD? Ever met Jonathan Gray, Alexander von Gernler or Uwe Stuehler, for example? I did. Very nice people. Don't reduce the OpenBSD community to Theo. That's a bit like reducing the Linux community to ESR. Some people are controversial. Get over it.
Slashdot Mirror
$ svnadmin create repos
$ svn co file:///tmp/repos wc
$ cd wc
$ echo a > a.c
$ echo b > b.h
$ svn add a.c b.h
A a.c
A b.h
$ svn ci -m "added some files"
Adding a.c
Adding b.h
Transmitting file data
Committed revision 1.
$ svn mkdir newfolder
A newfolder
$ svn mv *.[ch] newfolder
A newfolder/a.c
D a.c
A newfolder/b.h
D b.h
As is the case with virtually every other software in existence -- every software has problems.Who is this one super magic wizard guy? Quite a few Subversion developers are employed by several companies (not just google).
:)
I know there are other ways to get south park episodes, but I was specifically referring to the streams at http://www.southparkstudios.com/ There is possibly more content out there streamed via RTMP, which (I think) is currently inaccessible to software other than Adobe's Flash, right?
Does anyone know whether "SWF and FLV/F4V specification", " Flash Cast" and "AMF" (all mentioned in the FAQ) include RTMP in some way? In other words, will these specs help us watch south park with free software?
Best windows crash I've seen so far was when I travelled Italy -- a blue screen on a f** massive advertising screen at the central place of a mid-sized Italian city. Now that is marketing :)
Very interesting film, worth watching. It's a bit like The Matrix, but in our reality. And it's not made in Hollywood
Have you seen Steal this Film II? While DRM is not its main focus there are some interesting ideas in there that have heavy repercussions on DRM. If you follow that film's arguments, the public simply won't accept DRM any more than people did accept censoring of content back when the printing press first came around. You had to get a state-approved license if you wanted to print a book. These kinds of laws didn't really manage to stay around for a long time though. I really hope history is repeating itself here.
OTOH I haven't really come across any DRM'd content worth consuming yet. I guess back than books might have had relatively more important content than mainstream media today (e.g. books helped to bring about the french revolution while today's mainstream media is mostly about making a few rich people even richer).
In related news, semantically reversed article headlines now include slashdot!
Also, the summary is highly misleading. This is not a bittorrent-based replacement for TOR as one might conclude from the summary. The browser is merely designed to conceal the IPs of people surfing websites hosting torrents by going through a proxy. You also see ads while using the service. I wonder how long it will take ISPs with an anti-bittorrent agenda to block their proxies... Quoting TFA's FAQ:
Sure.
But consider this: in Berlin, there's a free as in speech wireless mesh network with more than 200 nodes. They are all more or less connected to each other and happily pass data around. A lot of them offer internet access. There's a map of the network you can look at. Now, even though this network is publicly known, freely accessible and run in a very large city with a virtually unlimited supply of people who are after doing bad stuff, as far as I know there has never been an incident so far (the network runs since about 3 years).
I know this does not invalidate your point in any way, because an incident could occur at any time. And a lot of people don't want to share their connection for the precise reasons you stated. But isn't it amazing still?
OK then. I still think the result of all this is a disaster, but we'll see what happens.
Yes, he can be hard to deal with, as can a lot of people in the Linux community. But note that in neither case this means the whole community is hard to deal with.
I thought I'd throw you guys some peace pointers to valuable comments from the OpenBSD side of things I found on undeadly.
Note that these comments are not flames, and they were modded up! There is common ground.
http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=200704Excellent! You've just totally proven my point. My point being that this whole thing got blown out of proportion by people who are incapable of seeing things from more than one angle. And if faced with another one they resort to snapping, trolling, and spouting irrelevant insults at complete strangers on the internet. And there's a variance that enjoys watching these trolls at work, and encourages them to keep the flames coming. It's people like that who made this a big fight between the Linux and BSD communities, no matter whether their religion is GPL or BSD or whatever. I am active in both communities, and there are a lot of people on either side I look up to, but you, sir, are not one of them, because you are disturbing both my communities. Just go away.
Then why didn't you just leave Theo out of it? I can see from the IRC logs that you were originally cautious about going public straight away. Actually it looks like nbd was the first person to suggest going public (and he was smiling a sneeky smile while doing that, note that I know nbd personally and I've sent him my opinion on what he said in your channel in private). In retrospect I think you would have done the FOSS community a big favour by not listening to your peers at that point. But well, as can be said about what mglocker did, shit happens. I'm sad this story had to escalate like it did :-/ For me personally it's quite bad because
I contribute code on both sides. It's annoying to see people around you fight all the time
for stupid reasons. You can find very nice people on the OpenBSD side, just as
on the Linux side, and both sides are full of idiots that turn into trolls if you feed them.
Feeding them helps no one. Please, next time, try not to feed the trolls.
And this is exactly what I mean, see? You are the same, just on the other side.
Did you know that there are actually very nice and decent people working on OpenBSD? Ever met Jonathan Gray, Alexander von Gernler or Uwe Stuehler, for example? I did. Very nice people. Don't reduce the OpenBSD community to Theo. That's a bit like reducing the Linux community to ESR. Some people are controversial. Get over it.