And we're talking about a fine of 30 or 50 bucks here! The time invested to avoid that fine outmatches the price by magnitudes.
Sure, people don't like to be fined (it's the same on this side of the world). That's completely different from a DVD player not working the way that you think that they think it should. One is of immediate monetary benefit, while they don't understand the other (like I said before). Everyone "gets" the concept of a fine. You do something society says is wrong, you pay money. A DVD player is not that simple.
And besides, we don't know exactly how many of the people who are fined for speeding that abuse the system. They could easily be an over-publicised minority that people can use to say "that's what's wrong with the system".
It's a national sport for many to go out of their way to cheat.
Only if you know how.
Not to mention that they complain about EVERYTHING.
You'll never find out about the people who don't complain, since they just don't complain! Most people don't complain about everything. And like I said, DVD players are low on people's to-fix list.
If nothing else, it will give those DVD vendors a headache when they come and claim that the latest DVD doesn't work in their player 'cause the key was rejected.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! I thought we were talking about reasonable copy-protection schemes. I had no idea that you'd spring AACS and its key revocation scheme.
The key revocation system may just kill the HD formats. As I said before:
After all, how do they know if anything is wrong if they don't understand much about it at all? Aside from the CD/DVD simply not playing, any other problems will be unfathomable.
The key revocation system is stupid because it breaks the cardinal rule of consumer electronics. You can't expect to sell something that may or may not work. They system relies on the hardware/software owners having internet access for firmware flashes, thus alienating those who don't have access to a decent internet connection. It breaks the standard, thus having a very complex specification for each disc, outlining which players it works for and which players it doesn't, thus alienating those who have no idea what model HD player they have (i.e. everyone). Worse still, they could also not tell you, and leave it up to the consumer to research if their player is broken, or needs a key change, thus alienating the lazy masses. They've already alienated the geeks, as we both know.
However, I don't think this will result in the average person questioning the law, finding workarounds, or accepting it. People will just want plain old DVDs, and the HD formats will fail.
My point is that the OS can be seen as a package, just as a car can be. Sure you could buy Windows with optional extras like MS Office, or any other windows program, or you could "buy" the open source equivalent. If you decide to break it down further than that, many OSes out there could be considered monopolies. I say we call Windows a monopoly based on its market share rather than on its compatibility.
They're used to playing their DVDs on computers and consoles. They're used to media shifting, from records to tape, which turned into a shift from CDs to portable systems or their car stereo system.
No, they aren't. Remember that we're talking about people who aren't technically literate, and who probably aren't familiar enough with the web to find a P2P network and begin pirating. These people generally don't do these things, which is why the MPAA sees fit to alienate the small market share that does do these activities. For one, they're relatively small. For two, they are the most likely to pirate. It's unfair, but true.
When this does not work anymore, will they simply accept it or start looking for workarounds? I dunno about the US, but here, I predict the latter.
Out of all the technically illiterate people that I've explained copy protection to (DRM and CD hacks), by far and away most have accepted it. I told them with the intention of providing a workaround so that they could copy their music/movies, but before I could finish the thought, they just thought it was fair enough. One person actually told me he was happy to hear of the copy-protection on CDs because he always felt guilty about copying albums for his own personal use. Also, I don't know where you are, but FYI I'm in Australia.
They won't care about the law, because that's what they were doing 'til now and they can (understandably) not understand why it should be forbidden to do what was common practice for decades.
OK, assuming you're right that they can't understand why these practices are forbidden, even though I find that most people can. Most of these people don't understand the technical side of entertainment media at all. I reckon that these people would hesitate to do anything about it. After all, how do they know if anything is wrong if they don't understand much about it at all? Aside from the CD/DVD simply not playing, any other problems will be unfathomable. And even if they take the time and effort to find out the problem (MUCH easier if you are able to use the web), all it takes is someone to point out that piracy is hurting the entertainment industry, and the problem is due to measures taken by the industry to correct that, and the person gives up, their ignorance trumped by information. But the point is pretty much moot anyway, since people are generally lazy, and fixing the DVD player that they use once a week is pretty low on life's list.
And that doesn't work, writing laws before common consensus supports them
I wouldn't bank your hopes on that view of common consensus. The anti-copyright lobby isn't that strong or numerous, but you won't find that on/. or any other forums. After all, its the internet users who are most likely to support piracy.
Why do people usually not murder or steal, rob a bank or kick old nannies off the curb? Because you simply don't do that!
The reason is that society has had years of conditioning that tell us these actions are wrong. We don't do these things because we decided a long time ago that we didn't want that in our society, that our society would be better off without such actions happening, We then solidified that into written law. The pro-copyright lobby is trying to do the same thing with piracy.
Ha. It was I who was referring to "fuckpuppets" and I meant not our fellow slashdotters, but the RIAA who impose such ludicrous and blatantly false "anti-piracy" trailers on us all.
Oh, of course. When it's the RIAA (or shouldn't that technically be the MPAA?), they're "fuckpuppets". When it's a fellow slashdotter, they're a... what are they anyway? And if slashdotters who agree are anything different from a "fuckpuppet", then you are profiling opinions based on their sources, which IMHO is intellectually dishonest and prone to errors.
Luckily for you, I do not have mod points today.
Lucky for me, the slashdot moderation system has safeguards against moderation abuse, such as moderating down your opponents in a discussion. Lucky for you, the moderation system rewards groupthink.
If it is illegal to translate, the Polish police was right in arresting the guilty.
They didn't arrest the guilty. They never arrest the guilty. They arrest suspects who may be declared guilty later. I know it sounds like nitpicking, but it is an important distinction.
My first reaction is that this is simply cultural bigotry, that this is the wealthiest and thus most culturally affluent nation touting their values as somehow superior to the values of other people, by other people, for other people. It's this kind of thinking that has justified the war in Iraq, and has ultimately lead to a huge international mess.
My second reaction was that a single culture and value system would be handy, and that if one value system were to take over the world, it might as well be the one that has helped the most powerful nation in the world come to power.
My final reaction was that diversity is good for challenging beliefs and broadening moral horizons. While a monoculture is handy, it is unhealthy.
Besides, I don't think that any intervention is necessary. The cultural might of the US has its own effects. They export their culture all over the world, and trade with the US is a huge bonus. Inevitably, the world is moving towards US values.
All anti-piracy measures are an affront to our liberty, punish legitimate users, and are a waste of money that the consumer has to pay for. Did I mention the slippery slope?
And now, the legal prices of booze are so low that there is no reason to make illegal booze.
There is a lot of reason to copy a $20 movie ($35... $70 in some cases). There is absolutely no reason to copy a $5.50 movie.
Wrong. I would copy a $5.50 movie if it were legal and morally acceptable. I could give a copy to friends, exercise fair use (automatically the two criteria are filled). I could be too damn lazy to get my butt down to the $5.50 DVD store. The comparison to booze would only be valid if the DVDs cost less than $2, if copying a DVD required special equipment, and if copying DVDs required a significant amount of time and commitment.
The movie company makes a lot less profit- but they still make a profit and anyone who pirates their movie is so clearly desperate for cash that the movie company isn't losing a dime on them.
In terms of immediate, short-term profits, there is no difference from a lost sale to piracy and a lost sale to other legitimate factors. However, with every sale lost to piracy, the bigger precedent is set which states that piracy is OK, that because the RIAA/MPAA is suing people without due diligence that it is OK to steal sales away from them and everyone they represent. They can live without your sale, so feel free to boycott, but they can't live with you pirating and parading it around as if it were justified.
They work for me. They're memorable, their message is pretty clear. I've seen them enough to recognise it by sound or by picture. As much as I sneer about it, about the demonising, the unfair comparisons, the artificial visual noise and shaky camera-work, but it does serve as a reminder of the people who rely on the money I pay in order to keep creating these movies.
... where the hell has all the common sense gone in the copyright debate? I also assumed that we had a certain level of civility on Slashdot, and that calling your fellow Slashdotters "fuckpuppets" was enough to land you a -1 flamebait mod.
What really gets my goat is that the parent deserves not one, but all the negative moderations, and mine will be the one to be buried.
How many people do you think read that advert, though "No, it can't possibly mean that..." and then clicked on it to see?
I know, I know. I feel like a total moron. That's exactly what I thought, and so I clicked it. What's worse is that I was running windows ME with IE6 and no anti-virus or anti-spyware. I was so relieved that I didn't get infected, since I'm still kinda haunted from the last time I got pwned by a virus. It was distressing having to restore from another VMware snapshot. I swore I'd never let it happen again.:)
Only 2x? No way, the multiplier needs to be much higher than that.
Let's just say hypothetically that a certain industry loses $10 million worth of potential sales in a certain area, and $200,000 worth of lost potential was caught and rectified, we would need at least a multiplier of 50x (10,000,000 / 200,000). You'd probably need another 10-20% on top of the multiplier as a deterrent. Leaving the multiplier at 50x would allow pirates to "break even" in terms of their odds, but adding another 5-10x would make it cheaper in the long run NOT to pirate.
I'm pulling these specific figures out of my ass, but you get the idea. We need to make piracy a bad bet.
Homer: Ah, not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm! Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad. Homer: Thank you, honey. Lisa: By your logic, I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away! Homer: Uh-huh, and how does it work? Lisa: It doesn't work. Homer: Uh-huh. Lisa: It's just a stupid rock. Homer: Uh-huh. Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around here, do you? Homer: (Looks around) Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock.
Slashdot Mirror
Come on mods, have a sense of humour. I don't think the parent meant anything personal.
Well, I thought it was funny.
And besides, we don't know exactly how many of the people who are fined for speeding that abuse the system. They could easily be an over-publicised minority that people can use to say "that's what's wrong with the system".Only if you know how.You'll never find out about the people who don't complain, since they just don't complain! Most people don't complain about everything. And like I said, DVD players are low on people's to-fix list.Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! I thought we were talking about reasonable copy-protection schemes. I had no idea that you'd spring AACS and its key revocation scheme.
The key revocation system may just kill the HD formats. As I said before:The key revocation system is stupid because it breaks the cardinal rule of consumer electronics. You can't expect to sell something that may or may not work. They system relies on the hardware/software owners having internet access for firmware flashes, thus alienating those who don't have access to a decent internet connection. It breaks the standard, thus having a very complex specification for each disc, outlining which players it works for and which players it doesn't, thus alienating those who have no idea what model HD player they have (i.e. everyone). Worse still, they could also not tell you, and leave it up to the consumer to research if their player is broken, or needs a key change, thus alienating the lazy masses. They've already alienated the geeks, as we both know.
However, I don't think this will result in the average person questioning the law, finding workarounds, or accepting it. People will just want plain old DVDs, and the HD formats will fail.
My point is that the OS can be seen as a package, just as a car can be. Sure you could buy Windows with optional extras like MS Office, or any other windows program, or you could "buy" the open source equivalent. If you decide to break it down further than that, many OSes out there could be considered monopolies. I say we call Windows a monopoly based on its market share rather than on its compatibility.
In short, not everyone is a
IMHO, any game that you have to pay $20/mo for sucks.
That's a good question. What the f*** is the outrage at imprisoning some kid for copying a file? Cultural imperialism?
Please read.
Note the presence of China, Hong Kong, the US, and many, many others. So what's this "does not include copyright" business?
Yup, copyright law is a farce. OMG, people pirating movies/music/software and getting punished? OMGROTFLOLOL!!!1
What's next? Punishing people for theft? HAHAHAMAO!
My first reaction is that this is simply cultural bigotry, that this is the wealthiest and thus most culturally affluent nation touting their values as somehow superior to the values of other people, by other people, for other people. It's this kind of thinking that has justified the war in Iraq, and has ultimately lead to a huge international mess.
My second reaction was that a single culture and value system would be handy, and that if one value system were to take over the world, it might as well be the one that has helped the most powerful nation in the world come to power.
My final reaction was that diversity is good for challenging beliefs and broadening moral horizons. While a monoculture is handy, it is unhealthy.
Besides, I don't think that any intervention is necessary. The cultural might of the US has its own effects. They export their culture all over the world, and trade with the US is a huge bonus. Inevitably, the world is moving towards US values.
All anti-piracy measures are an affront to our liberty, punish legitimate users, and are a waste of money that the consumer has to pay for. Did I mention the slippery slope?
Do whatever you want with your XBox, just don't expect to sign up to XBox Live. After all, you would have been duly warned in the EULA.
Yeah, I know. I don't like it either.
They work for me. They're memorable, their message is pretty clear. I've seen them enough to recognise it by sound or by picture. As much as I sneer about it, about the demonising, the unfair comparisons, the artificial visual noise and shaky camera-work, but it does serve as a reminder of the people who rely on the money I pay in order to keep creating these movies.
... where the hell has all the common sense gone in the copyright debate? I also assumed that we had a certain level of civility on Slashdot, and that calling your fellow Slashdotters "fuckpuppets" was enough to land you a -1 flamebait mod.
What really gets my goat is that the parent deserves not one, but all the negative moderations, and mine will be the one to be buried.
I will stop their now before I make a simple grammatical error myself, perhaps?
... adding a small number of ads to their pages doesn't make Ebay an asshole.
Well, certainly not an asshole like those who'd pursue those ad-blocking/ad-dodging extensions.
Only 2x? No way, the multiplier needs to be much higher than that.
Let's just say hypothetically that a certain industry loses $10 million worth of potential sales in a certain area, and $200,000 worth of lost potential was caught and rectified, we would need at least a multiplier of 50x (10,000,000 / 200,000). You'd probably need another 10-20% on top of the multiplier as a deterrent. Leaving the multiplier at 50x would allow pirates to "break even" in terms of their odds, but adding another 5-10x would make it cheaper in the long run NOT to pirate.
I'm pulling these specific figures out of my ass, but you get the idea. We need to make piracy a bad bet.
Homer: Ah, not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm!
Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, honey.
Lisa: By your logic, I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away!
Homer: Uh-huh, and how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around here, do you?
Homer: (Looks around) Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock.
(kthx)