What happens when all that China has left, is China?
That's not likely to happen. But let's say it does. Then all we will do is to target our complaints to whichever third-world country picking up the businesses of making cheap crap products on cheap labors while at the same time polluting the environment. Those who think these are caused by the particular politics or government in China are just naive and have not really visited a third-world country.
Also those businesses are not going to move back to the developed world, not until we make ourself third0world country by allowing people flooding in from Mexico and other third countries.
Chinese laws themselves are quite straightforward and simple. The problem is that they are a bit too simple. I'm not a lawyer but I have read some of their laws and contracts. After reading, I said to myself, "that's it?" You will not see pages and pages of details you typically find in American laws and contracts. It is often hard to tell what can and cannot be done after reading the legal docs. People fall back to common sense. This, however, gives the executive branches a lot of power. A contradiction is that while China is pretty much a totalitarian society, people there simply breaks laws for little convenience or advantages on a daily basis and nobody seems to care as long as they don't try to become a public figure.
On the hand, we have very thorough laws -- everything is codified -- but they are extremely complicate, full of exceptions and conditions. You rarely understand all the legal details. This places huge power in the hand of legislators and lawyers. That's why we have huge number of legal disclaimers and disclosures that are basically useless -- because there are too many.
both are systematic problems that cannot go away in any foreseeable times.
Fox News is worst political packaging I have seen in the US. For examples, see the many ear marking clauses being included in a congress bill with an appealing title.
Actually almost all HK news sites are not accessible in the mainland since the people start using Internet. China does not care about embarrassment but control.
The strange things are that the mainland cable TV networks (in the southern provinces) carry full TV programs from HK, because they are more popular than the politically correct programs from the mainland TV networks, but block only during the broadcast of certain sensitive news item. Of course, even a fool would tell something bad has happened by this type of blunt actions. And therefore nobody really believes whatever the government is saying. Yet at the same time, majority of the same people seem to agree that (a) social stability is more important than anything else; (b) some truths are better kept as open secrets.
The only good is that the Chinese government's propaganda control is largely still very blunt and kaming it easy to tell it is progranda. When they fully learned American style political marketing and packaging, it would be worse.
It is confirmation bias for the mass and politicians, but FUD marketing for the security/defense industry. Indeed, without FUD, most defense contractors around the world would have been out of works decades ago.
Actually foreigners are very well respected there still. I met some black guys over there and even he said he got more respects in China than in the US.
And if they do, will they be making pennies on the dollar? Would China even allow that? I'd imagine they'd want their own people to be employed, rather than incoming foreigners.
Yes you can. There are plenty of foreigners working in China, many having high degrees from famous universities. And I ran into headhunter looking for senior engineers for a famous Chinese internet company. Silicon Valley pay level! But you may not not want to go, because at that salary level, it is considered high income and your Chinese income tax can be as high as 50% (and no deduction from your mortgage); that's probably 10-15% higher than federal + CA tax.
No, the biggest trouble nowaday is not the government pulling the rug from under your feet but that you just do real estate flip-flopping instead of R&D in the ultra hot real estate bubble there. don't know about this particular deal, but most of these "high tech" parks are just real estate schemes disguised as high tech industry R&D and enriching high tech companies with no high tech but high-end connections. That's good for us because we probably don't have too much to really worry about. When their governments become less corrupted and companies are really doing R&D, then we would have to really worry. Not now. so cross your fingers that they remain like this.
If Google closes google.cn, as now seems likely, it could still maintain its R&D office in Beijing and its sales force, who sell ads on google.com targeted into China.
I don't know how one would call this strategy a "pull out". That's more "into the market" than before google.cn was established in a time when Chinese users just used google.com directly and that Google could not sell ads directly in China. Only the job of censoring is just shift from google back to the Great Firewall. Neither side seems to lose anything and both sides can now claim victory. "Don't do evils, just collect money and let others do the evils"
Maybe google now becomes more popular in China than before. Very creative marketing move by appealing to populism!
If Google closes google.cn, as now seems likely, it could still maintain its R&D office in Beijing and its sales force, who sell ads on google.com targeted into China.
I don't know how one would call this strategy a "pull out". That's more "into the market" than before google.cn was established in a time when Chinese users just used google.com directly and that Google could not sell ads directly in China. Only the job of censoring is just shift from google to the Great Firewall. Neither side seems to lose anything and both sides can now claim victory. "Don't do evils, just collect money and let others do the evils" Very creative marketing move!
Except that you are naive to think it is easy to do it "right". Let's face it. There are always more poor people in the world than the rich ones. Almost each and every country has their huge shares of problems and/or huge debts. The few richest ones are based on extremely small population, abundant resources or unethical business plans feeding from the riches from the rest of the world. when they tried communistic or socialistic ideas of redistributing wealth of the riches, like China had tried, resulting in political turmoil. Politicians, like the communists in China before the founding of PRC, would easily pitch for high dreams and organize large number of poors, stage political uprise or fight a civil war, and immediately turn into corrupted rulers and hijack the system once they succeed. That's exactly how the CCP got to this point. If CCP has done that, any group of politicians could -- the trick always works; just look around the world.
I was in China and was able to use google.com long before google.cn was set up. The government once tried to block google.com but failed because too many people complaint (yeah -- news for you -- they can complain to government in China.) This "serving Chinese users" theory is a crap. The Chinese users were served by google.com without censoring (by Google,) the only thing that Google couldn't do was to sell ads in China directly. (Though there were many middleman companies filling the gap.) And that's why they set up google.cn and started filtering. Setting up in HK is useless because it is not a legal entity in the mainland and you still can't do business. It is not about access but about money.
Don't you think they have thought about that and put it in the release forms? In this country, no doctor will give you any big treatment without collecting release forms. I signed plenty.
That's not my experience. In one time period, I went without insurance. The first thing the doctor and hospital asked for was the check. When I went to the radiologist to do an X-ray. They told me it would cost me $1500 incl. radiologist's fees; I turned them down and waited until I got insurer when I landed on a job.
They asked payment first because many people simply do not have the money to collect from.
So unless you are in the ER, they will tell you the price and collect ahead.
If I understand it right, a country raises a trade barrier if its rules discriminate against foreign imports. Say, if the rule says imported cars need to emit 25% less CO2 than domestic ones, then it is a trade barrier no matter how much you love the environment. but in these cases, both foreign and domestic have to obey the same censorships (or banning of gambling,) they are fair as long as trades are concern. google may make other trade barrier claim like if the state does not grant them video content licenses even if they agree to obey the same censoring rules.
Our family was from China. When my elder brother was 14 in the late 1970's, he had to go work as a construction worker because there were not enough to eat. When I was 14 in the late 1980's, I sat in the computer lab of my middle school, fiddling with BASIC programs on 8-bit micro computers; we were not rich but we didn't have to worry about food anymore. Today, kids in cities and towns spend most of their off-school times in video games, texting on their mobile phones, and have no ambition. There are still very poor people in rural area, just like there are equal poor people in Harlem. People in this country consider everything their "rights" just like kids thinks they are entitled to the next video game console, and forgot everything has to be paid for by somebody, no matter how basic it sounds like. No doubt the country runs into trillions of debts.
I was in China and was able to use google.com long before google.cn was set up. The government once tried to block it but failed because too many people complaint (yeah -- news for you -- they can complain to government in China.) This "serving Chinese users" theoery is crap. The Chinese users were served by google.com without censoring (by Google,) the only thing that google couldn't do is to sell ads in China. And that's why they set up google.cn and started filtering.
Indeed, should our governments "show a little spine"? Get into the real world.
They won't just like the Chinese government couldn't do anything when the US bombed their embassy in Kosov and blamined on "bad maps". Why? Here are some reasons:
No spy agency is going to reveal what they have done.
Everyone of them is doing the same to others; and they will continue to do so -- online or traditional
There are many other people, from the bored ones to the professionals, do the same hackings. The more noises out there, the better for the governments.
If they have any real evidence against others, they wouldn't reveal it, because it then revealed their own spying sources
governments are politically smart unlike average Joe's such as yourself; they understand the consequence of pushing too hard.
Actually, I believe the solution will be like "Google.cn stops filtering, the Greate Firewall start filtering on that domain." So Google can claim they get something; the government does not give up anything; nothing changed for the user.
The summary discloses the filter has been re-enabled since it was transiently lift. That can be verified by going to google.cn and do a search in Chinese. It does not counter google's claim of "will leave".
There is no substantial report of exactly which department the company is negotiating with, and from Chinese news sources oversea or in Hong Kong, some departments came out and denied any negotiation on going or that the company has made any formal complain. One would expect the government agency to act quickly on such high-profile case.
maybe it is just a populist marketing stunt by google.
Very true. Every country/place has its own share of problems. Cost of living in SF bay area is high, because there are still most the jobs. Also comparing to cities like Shanghai or Shenzhen, where a condo can easily cost US$300K+ while engineer salary is only about US$10K-, SF is actually quite affordable.
Where is your reference? all sources, like this, have it estimated at $999, which is not bad for 1.5 laptops given that the regualr laptop itself costs ~ $700.
Forgot to say, these founders do better for their companies mostly because they have a much larger stake in the company they found -- percentage shares as well as some ego -- than the CEOs hired. You know in huge multinationals, it could be that tens of millions of shares still among to less than 1%.
I have been frustrated by the inability to safe-remove / unmount a removable drive in Windows Vista. The Safe-Remove tool comes with the system works poorly. A lot of times, even if my drive has been idled for over two days, it cannot stop the system daemon svchost, which is the only program accessing the drive as shown in the resource monitor. It forces me to shut down the system. Is there a tool to force the programs and the system daemon to give up accessing the drive? Something this generic is not searchable.
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What happens when all that China has left, is China?
That's not likely to happen. But let's say it does. Then all we will do is to target our complaints to whichever third-world country picking up the businesses of making cheap crap products on cheap labors while at the same time polluting the environment. Those who think these are caused by the particular politics or government in China are just naive and have not really visited a third-world country.
Also those businesses are not going to move back to the developed world, not until we make ourself third0world country by allowing people flooding in from Mexico and other third countries.
Chinese laws themselves are quite straightforward and simple. The problem is that they are a bit too simple. I'm not a lawyer but I have read some of their laws and contracts. After reading, I said to myself, "that's it?" You will not see pages and pages of details you typically find in American laws and contracts. It is often hard to tell what can and cannot be done after reading the legal docs. People fall back to common sense. This, however, gives the executive branches a lot of power. A contradiction is that while China is pretty much a totalitarian society, people there simply breaks laws for little convenience or advantages on a daily basis and nobody seems to care as long as they don't try to become a public figure.
On the hand, we have very thorough laws -- everything is codified -- but they are extremely complicate, full of exceptions and conditions. You rarely understand all the legal details. This places huge power in the hand of legislators and lawyers. That's why we have huge number of legal disclaimers and disclosures that are basically useless -- because there are too many.
both are systematic problems that cannot go away in any foreseeable times.
Fox News is worst political packaging I have seen in the US. For examples, see the many ear marking clauses being included in a congress bill with an appealing title.
The strange things are that the mainland cable TV networks (in the southern provinces) carry full TV programs from HK, because they are more popular than the politically correct programs from the mainland TV networks, but block only during the broadcast of certain sensitive news item. Of course, even a fool would tell something bad has happened by this type of blunt actions. And therefore nobody really believes whatever the government is saying. Yet at the same time, majority of the same people seem to agree that (a) social stability is more important than anything else; (b) some truths are better kept as open secrets.
The only good is that the Chinese government's propaganda control is largely still very blunt and kaming it easy to tell it is progranda. When they fully learned American style political marketing and packaging, it would be worse.
It is confirmation bias for the mass and politicians, but FUD marketing for the security/defense industry. Indeed, without FUD, most defense contractors around the world would have been out of works decades ago.
Actually foreigners are very well respected there still. I met some black guys over there and even he said he got more respects in China than in the US.
And if they do, will they be making pennies on the dollar? Would China even allow that? I'd imagine they'd want their own people to be employed, rather than incoming foreigners.
Yes you can. There are plenty of foreigners working in China, many having high degrees from famous universities. And I ran into headhunter looking for senior engineers for a famous Chinese internet company. Silicon Valley pay level! But you may not not want to go, because at that salary level, it is considered high income and your Chinese income tax can be as high as 50% (and no deduction from your mortgage); that's probably 10-15% higher than federal + CA tax.
No, the biggest trouble nowaday is not the government pulling the rug from under your feet but that you just do real estate flip-flopping instead of R&D in the ultra hot real estate bubble there. don't know about this particular deal, but most of these "high tech" parks are just real estate schemes disguised as high tech industry R&D and enriching high tech companies with no high tech but high-end connections. That's good for us because we probably don't have too much to really worry about. When their governments become less corrupted and companies are really doing R&D, then we would have to really worry. Not now. so cross your fingers that they remain like this.
If Google closes google.cn, as now seems likely, it could still maintain its R&D office in Beijing and its sales force, who sell ads on google.com targeted into China.
I don't know how one would call this strategy a "pull out". That's more "into the market" than before google.cn was established in a time when Chinese users just used google.com directly and that Google could not sell ads directly in China. Only the job of censoring is just shift from google back to the Great Firewall. Neither side seems to lose anything and both sides can now claim victory. "Don't do evils, just collect money and let others do the evils"
Maybe google now becomes more popular in China than before. Very creative marketing move by appealing to populism!
If Google closes google.cn, as now seems likely, it could still maintain its R&D office in Beijing and its sales force, who sell ads on google.com targeted into China.
I don't know how one would call this strategy a "pull out". That's more "into the market" than before google.cn was established in a time when Chinese users just used google.com directly and that Google could not sell ads directly in China. Only the job of censoring is just shift from google to the Great Firewall. Neither side seems to lose anything and both sides can now claim victory. "Don't do evils, just collect money and let others do the evils" Very creative marketing move!
Except that you are naive to think it is easy to do it "right". Let's face it. There are always more poor people in the world than the rich ones. Almost each and every country has their huge shares of problems and/or huge debts. The few richest ones are based on extremely small population, abundant resources or unethical business plans feeding from the riches from the rest of the world. when they tried communistic or socialistic ideas of redistributing wealth of the riches, like China had tried, resulting in political turmoil. Politicians, like the communists in China before the founding of PRC, would easily pitch for high dreams and organize large number of poors, stage political uprise or fight a civil war, and immediately turn into corrupted rulers and hijack the system once they succeed. That's exactly how the CCP got to this point. If CCP has done that, any group of politicians could -- the trick always works; just look around the world.
I was in China and was able to use google.com long before google.cn was set up. The government once tried to block google.com but failed because too many people complaint (yeah -- news for you -- they can complain to government in China.) This "serving Chinese users" theory is a crap. The Chinese users were served by google.com without censoring (by Google,) the only thing that Google couldn't do was to sell ads in China directly. (Though there were many middleman companies filling the gap.) And that's why they set up google.cn and started filtering. Setting up in HK is useless because it is not a legal entity in the mainland and you still can't do business. It is not about access but about money.
Don't you think they have thought about that and put it in the release forms? In this country, no doctor will give you any big treatment without collecting release forms. I signed plenty.
That's not my experience. In one time period, I went without insurance. The first thing the doctor and hospital asked for was the check. When I went to the radiologist to do an X-ray. They told me it would cost me $1500 incl. radiologist's fees; I turned them down and waited until I got insurer when I landed on a job.
They asked payment first because many people simply do not have the money to collect from.
So unless you are in the ER, they will tell you the price and collect ahead.
If I understand it right, a country raises a trade barrier if its rules discriminate against foreign imports. Say, if the rule says imported cars need to emit 25% less CO2 than domestic ones, then it is a trade barrier no matter how much you love the environment. but in these cases, both foreign and domestic have to obey the same censorships (or banning of gambling,) they are fair as long as trades are concern. google may make other trade barrier claim like if the state does not grant them video content licenses even if they agree to obey the same censoring rules.
Our family was from China. When my elder brother was 14 in the late 1970's, he had to go work as a construction worker because there were not enough to eat. When I was 14 in the late 1980's, I sat in the computer lab of my middle school, fiddling with BASIC programs on 8-bit micro computers; we were not rich but we didn't have to worry about food anymore. Today, kids in cities and towns spend most of their off-school times in video games, texting on their mobile phones, and have no ambition. There are still very poor people in rural area, just like there are equal poor people in Harlem. People in this country consider everything their "rights" just like kids thinks they are entitled to the next video game console, and forgot everything has to be paid for by somebody, no matter how basic it sounds like. No doubt the country runs into trillions of debts.
I was in China and was able to use google.com long before google.cn was set up. The government once tried to block it but failed because too many people complaint (yeah -- news for you -- they can complain to government in China.) This "serving Chinese users" theoery is crap. The Chinese users were served by google.com without censoring (by Google,) the only thing that google couldn't do is to sell ads in China. And that's why they set up google.cn and started filtering.
Indeed, should our governments "show a little spine"? Get into the real world.
They won't just like the Chinese government couldn't do anything when the US bombed their embassy in Kosov and blamined on "bad maps". Why? Here are some reasons:
Actually, I believe the solution will be like "Google.cn stops filtering, the Greate Firewall start filtering on that domain." So Google can claim they get something; the government does not give up anything; nothing changed for the user.
Simple! Stop exporting wheat, pork, beef, chicken feet to China. They may have to worry about food again.
The summary discloses the filter has been re-enabled since it was transiently lift. That can be verified by going to google.cn and do a search in Chinese. It does not counter google's claim of "will leave".
There is no substantial report of exactly which department the company is negotiating with, and from Chinese news sources oversea or in Hong Kong, some departments came out and denied any negotiation on going or that the company has made any formal complain. One would expect the government agency to act quickly on such high-profile case.
maybe it is just a populist marketing stunt by google.
Very true. Every country/place has its own share of problems. Cost of living in SF bay area is high, because there are still most the jobs. Also comparing to cities like Shanghai or Shenzhen, where a condo can easily cost US$300K+ while engineer salary is only about US$10K-, SF is actually quite affordable.
Where is your reference? all sources, like this, have it estimated at $999, which is not bad for 1.5 laptops given that the regualr laptop itself costs ~ $700.
Forgot to say, these founders do better for their companies mostly because they have a much larger stake in the company they found -- percentage shares as well as some ego -- than the CEOs hired. You know in huge multinationals, it could be that tens of millions of shares still among to less than 1%.
I have been frustrated by the inability to safe-remove / unmount a removable drive in Windows Vista. The Safe-Remove tool comes with the system works poorly. A lot of times, even if my drive has been idled for over two days, it cannot stop the system daemon svchost, which is the only program accessing the drive as shown in the resource monitor. It forces me to shut down the system. Is there a tool to force the programs and the system daemon to give up accessing the drive? Something this generic is not searchable.