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Google Asks US For WTO Block On China Censorship
An anonymous reader writes "Google is asking the US government to petition the World Trade Organization to recognize China's censorship as an unfair barrier to trade. The US Trade Representative is reviewing their petition to see if they can prove that China's rules discriminate against foreign competition. At least it's something worthwhile for the US Trade Reps to do, rather than secretly negotiating ACTA."
I'm really quite proud of Google for taking on China over this issue. I understand that China is a big search market and Google is just trying to ensure that it gets every last click out of it, but having uncensored access to Google search is something that Chinese citizens really should have. It's one of their only ways to find news and information that hasn't been filtered through the government's propaganda machine. Obviously, that's why China doesn't want them to be able to use it.
All google.cn are belong to us cowboy !!
O.K they are doing it for their own benefit, but the side effect of that could be to encourage China to prevent censorship I personally think that repressive regimes should be removed from the internet entirely. (although that would have included the USA 2001-2009)
What happened to Google pulling out?? Like Tiger they've got no balls.
Internet based trade barriers are everywhere, what immediately also comes to mind are the US block on gambling websites.
The problem here is that it won't be easy to figth this one when we're not smelling like a rose, either.
Most ignorance is vincible ignorance. We don't know because we don't want to know. --Aldous Huxley
... that Google couldn't care less about the civil liberties of the average Chinese citizen. All Google wants is to be the invasive ones in everyone's daily online lives in a background, monitoring sense. Google is probably negotiating deals with China regarding data collection and backdoor eavesdropping.
Far too many. Pot Kettle Black Google Evil
Loosen up, Mao. And stop peeing in my Coke.
I was really disturbed by the buzz fiasco with privacy and was awaiting a good action from Google to restore my faith in them. I think this move deserve to be called a good action.
Sorry, we only do evil.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
If you could not point out an error unless you are yourself completely free of any error no-one would speak up for anything.
In other words: You can never really counter any argument by proclaiming the other party also does things wrong... While it might feel morally right to do so it makes no sense logically, the argument still stands and everyone is just as flawed (or even more because of it).
Then again, this is really the pot calling the kettle black... And it can become annoying and more important unproductive, so I do agree with you.
China must have called their bluff and won the first round. Now that "we'll leave if you don't change your ways" is off the table, Google's hand is a lot weaker. At this point I expect them to run around for another few months, pretend that they're actually trying to do something that will work, eventually declare "victory" and continue on in China like none of this ever happened.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
In response China should petition the World Trade Organisation to recognise USA's patents and copyrigt as an unfair barrier to trade.
That's exactly what they are doing.
They believe the censorship imposed on Google by the Chinese government, is against the trade agreement set by WTO between the US and China.
I can't say if that's the case or not, that's up to the WTO to decide.
But it's a fair request to make by Google, it's disrupting to there business.
- Don't do what I do, it's probably not healthy nor safe. -
"Gentlemen, you can't just do whatever you want, this is free trade!"
Set your phasers on "funky"!
... for pressuring the disgusting and odious Chinese government. The Chinese are big on 'face', and maybe -- just maybe -- they can be shamed into adopting international standards of decent behaviour.
Ideally, what China really needs is a Hungarian-style transition to civilized, responsible democratic government, although I suppose piecemeal reform could rate a (distant) second place.
So when we start working against censorship in Italy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Italy#During_Berlusconi.27s_era_.281992-present.29
At least it's something worthwhile for the US Trade Reps to do, rather than secretly negotiating ACTA."
You fail to understand how govenrment works. They will not re-assign "US Tarde Reps" from their vital-to-national-security role in the ongoing ACTA negotiations. They will simply hire more "US Trade Reps" and raise taxes to pay for them. Since this will also mean at least the appearance of increased taxes on Disneywood, Disneywood will move more jobs offshore AND raise prices on their fine products. The increased local unemployment will require local govenrments to hire more workers to deal with the unemployment claims so they will also have to raise taxes.
I think these petty (WTO) squabbles would be better resolved via bikini jello rass'ln. It would certainly be a classier form of entertainment.
You either believe in rational thought or you don't
> why does everyone keep telling the Chinese what to do with their country? Didn't you guys believe in freedom or something?
Clasically, international law recognized the state's right to do whatever it wanted within its borders, but even then the creation of international law had to do with the problem of human rights, in a way. The thirty years war had wreaked havoc on Europe, and hundreds of towns and cities across the continent were burned or otherwise scourged by the war. Starting around 1648, after the Peace of Westphalia, nations could not longer do whatever they wanted.
The connection to human rights remained largely latent until WW2, however. Then we had the holocaust. War Crime prosecution at Nurenberg, the drafting of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the ICCPR, and then the formation for the first time of transnational organizations (Amnesty International being one of the early starters) for the advancement of human rights, led us into a world where everyone agreed that it mattered what people did within their own country. Some things are illegal. Slavery, piracy, and aggressive war are the most obvious.
In our society, individuals have certain freedoms so long as they don't break the social contract, express or implied. In international society, nations have freedom so long as they don't break the social contract among nations, express or implied. In both cases, it's easier to get away with breaking the contract if you're bigger, you're stronger, you have more money, or nobody finds out about it.
As to your last point, if we knew how to fix our country, we would. We're trying, and we'll keep trying. But we still live in the world. We still have obligations--and so does China--not only on a moral level and arising out of our duty to our citizenry and our species, but also arising out of treaty obligations under the WTO. If China agrees to be part of the WTO, then it can expect to have a complaint filed against it if it violates WTO rules. The same is true for the United States, or Canada, or any other signatory to the relevant treaties.
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
It would be great if this came to pass, but it wont. First, you're going to have a hard time getting China to do anything particularly when the people themselves believe that censorship is sometimes necessary. But more importantly, most companies couldn't care less. What they want is cheap manufacturing and some level of experience. China provides both while other developing nations can't yet meet these needs.
And China is a great target for passing the buck. Anything goes wrong with your product blame the Chinese manufacturers. When some of Mattel's toys were found to have a variety of problems what did they do? Blame China. Everyone completely overlooked the fact that Mattel should be directly involved in overseeing the manufacturing of their own products. But why should they care? The whole point of going to China to begin with was to cut costs.
If most companies don't care about the kind the quality of the stuff they sell us why the hell would they care about what China does on its own soil? And currently China is in a situation where it can throw its weight around. Perhaps when India and Southeast Asia are much stronger competitors to China things will change because at that point it will become more apparent that the world doesn't really need China. But of course, that really isn't going to help the case for China easing up on its own people.
And like I've stated, most Chinese don't think there's a problem at all. Frankly, there are far greater atrocities taking place around the world that Google should be speaking up about.
The US should treat all communist the same way. Let's block China for trading like it is happening with Cuba ....hahaha
No more ipods, computers, or anything made in china should get into the US. And US companies should not be able to put manufacturing plants or use any China services to produce goods !!
So Obama, are you afraid of China? ...or take out the Cuba embargo, that will be easier.
When are we going to get around to dealing with their blatant price fixing through currency manipulation? Seems like that's another thing China likes to do that the WTO is meant to prevent.
If I understand it right, a country raises a trade barrier if its rules discriminate against foreign imports. Say, if the rule says imported cars need to emit 25% less CO2 than domestic ones, then it is a trade barrier no matter how much you love the environment. but in these cases, both foreign and domestic have to obey the same censorships (or banning of gambling,) they are fair as long as trades are concern. google may make other trade barrier claim like if the state does not grant them video content licenses even if they agree to obey the same censoring rules.
Don't local Chinese companies that compete with Google, such as Baidu, have to comply with the same censorship restrictions? For it to be an unfair trade barrier, don't local companies have to be treated differently?
For example, in Canada food products must be labelled in both English and French. A US company with US-produced food goods must use different packaging that complies with this law to import those goods into Canada, or, as is often the case, slap a sticker that meets the minimum requirements of the law. Since the law treats local and imported goods the same, it is not considered an unfair trade barrier. It doesn't matter that it is inconvenient for a US company to have to modify its manufacturing process to accommodate that law.
Note I'm not making any statement about the censorship laws being fair or moral in and of themselves.
This seems to me more like a rerun of MPAA lobbying US for piratebay...except in this case it is google lobbying US for the China censorship.Why are they making such a fuss now...why dint they make it long back...google's "no evil" is a joke.
The law applies to both chinese and foreign companies. Good luck anyway!
http://dilbert.com/2010-12-13
Really, what does it MEAN that google is leaving china? So what if they are not there. Google keeps the .cn domain google.cn and it will resolve to somewhere in california or probably Japan since it's closer. Unless the Chinese gov blocks ALL access to google worldwide why would Baidu all of a sudden get all of Google's search biz? China can censor it themselves if they want, google does not have to have anything to do with it.