Yes, in one course in the local IT Engineering degree, we were tasked to create a "game" over the course of a few weeks in Java. No, don't be fooled.
We were told exactly what had to happen when why, we just had to make the Java classes and translate the directions into code. There was nothing about balancing, nothing about making the game actually fun, very little about user training (my nethack-like interface was accepted without any problem)... simply nothing about the actual "game" part.
They just wanted us to make us interact a bunch of classes. The "game" part was just a cloak to make people go "wow" for those couple nanoseconds.
Well, getting 500 megs for free (that's a 25% bump) is rather easy:
1. Find a friend who does have Dropbox and use his referrer url. Use it when subscribing. Bam! When you're done installing you have 250 extra megs. 2. Take the Getting Started tour: https://www.dropbox.com/gs -- complete five out of six and you get 250 more free megs.
Twitter is not the only place you count characters.
URLs longer than 80 characters might split in multiple lines in emails. IRC topics also benefit from url shorteners. Nobody will be missing the rickrolls, however;)
> shows [...] are shown as little as 3 months after
I really can't see how that would stop them. I mean, setting up different release dates for different areas really is no rocket science. I don't think "new episodes" on Hulu appear as soon as they are available;)
You surely mean IRC + Bouncer. And even then, offline PM delivery isn't guaranteed at all (you can drop while you are receiving the backlog).
And even then, within a few minutes of sending messages, Skype lets you edit them (no more lines correcting typoes) or remove them; not to mention voice calls and video calls service (one of the precious few that work on Linux), the convenient Screen Sharing and more niceties.
> The mouse driver controls this behavior, on > either Windows or Linux. I'm not sure whether I should buy that or not, given that KDE doesn't do that;)
> For the scenario you described, try dragging a > window to the side of the screen in Win7 Woot! I know how it is like. Unfortunately, my laptop is too old for Win7 (or WinVista), while Ubuntu runs acceptably on it.
> FAR too application-dependent. It works on 99% the software you normally run on Gnome. And don't try and tell me all Windows applications look, feel and behave exactly the same;)
> You're comparing a 2009 OS to Windows XP (2001, or 2004 if > you count SP2 Actually 2008 if I count SP3. Anyway, I am counting the latest Windows OS that will run acceptably on my system vs the latest Ubuntu OS that will run acceptably on my system. Fair play IMHO.
Sue me if I do not talk about stuff I have no clue of.
> if you're connected to the 'net you really need a > firewall See my reply to the first post. I do have a firewall, but an hardware firewall. No ZA or NIS for me thank you very much.
> Linux does package management very well. However, suppose > your audio driver is acting up I feel a bug report on Launchpad (if there isn't one already), find a workaround for the time being and wait for an update being pushed on the repos. If there is no workaround etc. and the situation is too painful then oh well, I'll just use Windows.
> Half the codecs that Ventrilo likes to use still aren't > available on Linux, and only *might* work if imported from > Windows into Wine. Many distros still won't play MP3 or > DVD out of the box (I'm aware XP doesn't; XP is an invalid > comparison). XP with all the updates does play DVDs. Surprise surprise, Ubuntu with all the required packages does play DVDs.
Codecs are where Linux is weaker due to proprietary restrictions, of course. In this case it is literally "you get what you pay for."
> it is supposed to manage files check
> run programs check
> utilize your hardware check (see other replies in discussion)
> open your Photoshop files check (GIMP), even tho I'm sure you saw this coming and have a nice long retort waiting on this one:P
> use your USB headset correctly Again, proprietary drivers, proprietary protocols, and more. You probably should have seen this coming however:)
Normally, Ubuntu only gives software point upgrades on distro updates. There are ways to ask for newer versions of your app of choice to be installed; check the Ubuntu wiki.
> Everything in Linux is an add-on already > Again, it's a Linux add-on > Again, another add-on that you can also get in Windows.
Ok, so they are addons, it would be silly otherwise come think of it. Ok, so you can do them with Windows too. That doesn't mean anything really.
Ubuntu does come with those "addons" (and my whole point was about Ubuntu), while getting them to Windows requires external processes with notification icons, regedit hacking (insert your favourite regedit warning blurb here) and more forms of bloatware/nagware/adware/etc. that really is. Most of them are just ugly hacks that in my longish Windows experience break fast anyway.
Therefore they still are usability boosts Ubuntu has that Windows doesn't.:)
> So, a broken feature on your distro is a bonus?
No; the rest, unbroken part is however.
> If you think a firewall is bloatware, I don't want you near my network, linux or no
Touchè. I really meant software firewall, and that is bloatware. Malware will get around it, period. "Norton Internet Security" anyone? Am I the only one who got their Windows connectivity fucked by ZoneAlarm?
I do have a firewall. It's my router.
> That's great, except not everything is available via every distro's install method. My > god man, did you RTFA? He points this and most of the other important technical reasons > Ubuntu and other desktop distros are just plain inferior from a useability > standpoint.
My reply was -all- about the only distro I have real experience of, Ubuntu. My god, did you read the first sentence of my post!:P
I did read the RTFA and I do agree on some points, like sound. My post was not a reply to the Fine Article, it was a reply to sopssa.
> I'll grant you the stuff you can get from repositories makes installing/uninstalling very > simple, I like it a lot, but there is too much out there that is not in the repositories, > and that stuff is significantly more difficult to install.</quote>
Usually my solution is Google: for example, "google gadgets deb". If the destination is a bare deb link on some blog, then sure it will be suboptimal. Still IMHO the autoupdating feature only central repositories can bring to you with such consistency overvalues all kinds of "one click reinstall/repair" features. Oh, btw, there also is "aptitude appname reinstall".
Some apps aren't packaged yet and/or require me to work around my package system (read: manually install, install scripts, etc.) and I simply do not install them. I have the windows dual boot partition for the Windows equivalents of those after all.
> The windows model is also moving away from install "wizards" and encouraging MSI > packages, which IMO beat repositories even, because a centralized database is not > necessary, and you can run repair functions as well as simple removal and > re-installation. Something like this for Linux would be a massive leap forward (it would > even be simple to keep the repository model with a scripted installer package).
About msi packages, they are not evil, agreed. However, how many out-of-the-box-truly-automated zero-clicks-required msi packages have you ever seen? I have seen exactly one: the Quake Live browser plugin installer. Even the most barebone installers still force you through the intro page, the installing page and the done page in the old evil wizardy fashion.
> Nobody ever said [Linux] was [a Windows skin].
Granted, nobody said it in this discussion, it was more of a post scriptum about a point a lot of people silently assume. I simply took the advice from http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and the other 112 million google hits for "Linux is not Windows" and brought it forward.:)
Oh, but the problem is that the real reasons why working in Ubuntu is better than working on Windows can't be seen in screenies. It's the sum of many small great touches:)
Some examples, in an ordered in no particular order list:
1. Multiple desktops. Stop the clutter at the bottom of the screen. Organising your work is as easy as pressing Ctrl-Alt-E (IIRC) or just Ctrl-(Alt)-<Arrow>.
2. Mouse wheel works on item however, not item focused. Want to scroll that document in a background window? Just move the mouse there and scroll away! You can also use the scrollwheel to cycle between desktops, tabs, windows, comboboxes and more.
3. An 'always on top' item in the window menu. If you need to copy data from app A to app B put app B at the top with two clicks (or a right mouse drag). No external bloatware required.
4. Middle click pasting. Now that app B is on top, select stuff normally from app A and middle click on the destination in app B. Voila': copy paste with the mouse only. And your Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V buffer (aka clipboard) stays untouched!
5. Notifications that get out of the way. Ubuntu 9.04 doesn't need no frikkin' baloons (and currently the method to bring them back doesn't work for me:D). Message boxes are done the right way -- (almost) no generic yes/no choices.
6. If virtualization is good enough for videogames on a Mac (it is), then it is good enough for videogames on a Linux. (Non free; dunno about the free) versions of virtual box are able to use the processors' virtualization extensions and offer inbuilt OpenGL support. DirectX support is in the works. Hell, the (free) Ubuntu supported enterprise virtualization support doesn't even work without it.
7. Dual booting. You don't need to wipe Windows for that app you NEED to run in native Windows. Since you won't use it that much you can even not care on Windows to install all the damn bloatware like firewalls and antiviruses.
8. Installing, uninstalling and updating applications. So long as you keep true to installing EVERYTHING through whatever your distro uses to manage packages, 95% of that stuff is as hard as respectively checking boxes on, checking boxes off and clicking on "Install updates". No, you don't even need to mindlessly pound through wizards on the Next button waiting for it to become Finish.
9. Codecs. It is surprising how well codecs work on Linux, when you consider the not so solid situation on sound reproduction. Just downloaded an flv from youtube? No need for external players or convertors -- totem plays it out of the box. Totem will automatically prompt you to install missing codecs (see 8) when needed. Oh, and generally speaking, if you can play it, you can convert it to free formats like ogg or ogv.
10. Compiz. It's just too cool not to be mentioned, and AFAIK it predates the Windows and Mac equivalents.:D
Oh, an important thing to end this tl;dr comment:
Ubuntu is not a Windows skin.
It doesn't work like Windows.
It's *designed* not to.
If you try Ubuntu like a Windows skin you are going to fail. Full stop.
If you aren't interested in giving up on the way you work on Windows to approach different, not necessarily better ways of working then don't bother trying Ubuntu and while you're at it stop talking about it and just keep on going with Windows. Nobody is forcing you. Linux is all about choice.;)
My experience on this laptop (a Toshiba Equium M70-272):
WinXP SP2 vs Ubuntu 7.04 Screen: default driver @ 800x600x16 vs default driver @ native resolution Keyboard: default driver vs general driver Sound: not recognised vs general driver Wifi: not recognised vs Intel general driver Printer: not recognised vs printer-specific CUPS support Winmodem: not recognised vs default (non working) winmodem restricted driver
So... what is your point again?;)
For some reason, driver hunting for Windows is acceptable, but don't dare tell the guy trying Linux that Ubuntu might not pick up the play button on the side of the keyboard automagically!
Next time you hear Berlusconi going about how he made Italy great in the world, just reread this discussion and see for yourself what the world really thinks of us.
Slashdot Mirror
Are you trying to claim there was no reason whatsoever to innovate or create art before patents and copyright were introduced?
If we want to use proper grammar, it'd be proc_call(1,2;3,4;5,6).
Yes, in one course in the local IT Engineering degree, we were tasked to create a "game" over the course of a few weeks in Java. No, don't be fooled.
We were told exactly what had to happen when why, we just had to make the Java classes and translate the directions into code. There was nothing about balancing, nothing about making the game actually fun, very little about user training (my nethack-like interface was accepted without any problem)... simply nothing about the actual "game" part.
They just wanted us to make us interact a bunch of classes. The "game" part was just a cloak to make people go "wow" for those couple nanoseconds.
Well, getting 500 megs for free (that's a 25% bump) is rather easy:
1. Find a friend who does have Dropbox and use his referrer url. Use it when subscribing. Bam! When you're done installing you have 250 extra megs.
2. Take the Getting Started tour: https://www.dropbox.com/gs -- complete five out of six and you get 250 more free megs.
Twitter is not the only place you count characters.
;)
URLs longer than 80 characters might split in multiple lines in emails. IRC topics also benefit from url shorteners. Nobody will be missing the rickrolls, however
> shows [...] are shown as little as 3 months after
;)
I really can't see how that would stop them. I mean, setting up different release dates for different areas really is no rocket science. I don't think "new episodes" on Hulu appear as soon as they are available
To get more BOINC credits through CUDA, you insensitive clod!
Are you implying Flash is usable?
You are comparing 2005 apples with 2009 apples, and it doesn't work in Economy.
Not everybody lives in US, you insensitive clod!
You surely mean IRC + Bouncer. And even then, offline PM delivery isn't guaranteed at all (you can drop while you are receiving the backlog).
And even then, within a few minutes of sending messages, Skype lets you edit them (no more lines correcting typoes) or remove them; not to mention voice calls and video calls service (one of the precious few that work on Linux), the convenient Screen Sharing and more niceties.
> I know, stupidly obvious, but there isn't one built into ubuntu.
Applications -> Add/Remove.
Welcome to 1999
However, the EULA most likely claims that if the localized version and the English version differ, the English version rules.
How valid such a clause is -- if you do not know English you cannot determine what you are agreeing to -- I do not know, however.
No, they use those stories in more FUD documentaries (like BBC's one about wifi) that are then retracted when the damage is done.
That would stop other media companies (like RAI) from broadcasting them presenting them as authoritative stuff from oh-my-the-BBC... right?
>A Windows *Enterprise* machine run by a competent administrator is just as difficult to infect or attack as *any* Linux machine.
There, fixed it for you.
That's because you have UAC disabled.
Because it's the way Real Men(TM) do it.
> The mouse driver controls this behavior, on ;)
;)
:P
:)
> either Windows or Linux.
I'm not sure whether I should buy that or not, given that KDE doesn't do that
> For the scenario you described, try dragging a
> window to the side of the screen in Win7
Woot! I know how it is like. Unfortunately, my laptop is too old for Win7 (or WinVista), while Ubuntu runs acceptably on it.
> FAR too application-dependent.
It works on 99% the software you normally run on Gnome. And don't try and tell me all Windows applications look, feel and behave exactly the same
> You're comparing a 2009 OS to Windows XP (2001, or 2004 if
> you count SP2
Actually 2008 if I count SP3. Anyway, I am counting the latest Windows OS that will run acceptably on my system vs the latest Ubuntu OS that will run acceptably on my system. Fair play IMHO.
Sue me if I do not talk about stuff I have no clue of.
> if you're connected to the 'net you really need a
> firewall
See my reply to the first post. I do have a firewall, but an hardware firewall. No ZA or NIS for me thank you very much.
> Linux does package management very well. However, suppose > your audio driver is acting up
I feel a bug report on Launchpad (if there isn't one already), find a workaround for the time being and wait for an update being pushed on the repos. If there is no workaround etc. and the situation is too painful then oh well, I'll just use Windows.
> Half the codecs that Ventrilo likes to use still aren't
> available on Linux, and only *might* work if imported from
> Windows into Wine. Many distros still won't play MP3 or
> DVD out of the box (I'm aware XP doesn't; XP is an invalid
> comparison).
XP with all the updates does play DVDs. Surprise surprise, Ubuntu with all the required packages does play DVDs.
Codecs are where Linux is weaker due to proprietary restrictions, of course. In this case it is literally "you get what you pay for."
> it is supposed to manage files
check
> run programs
check
> utilize your hardware
check (see other replies in discussion)
> open your Photoshop files
check (GIMP), even tho I'm sure you saw this coming and have a nice long retort waiting on this one
> use your USB headset correctly
Again, proprietary drivers, proprietary protocols, and more. You probably should have seen this coming however
Normally, Ubuntu only gives software point upgrades on distro updates. There are ways to ask for newer versions of your app of choice to be installed; check the Ubuntu wiki.
> Everything in Linux is an add-on already
:)
:P
:)
> Again, it's a Linux add-on
> Again, another add-on that you can also get in Windows.
Ok, so they are addons, it would be silly otherwise come think of it. Ok, so you can do them with Windows too. That doesn't mean anything really.
Ubuntu does come with those "addons" (and my whole point was about Ubuntu), while getting them to Windows requires external processes with notification icons, regedit hacking (insert your favourite regedit warning blurb here) and more forms of bloatware/nagware/adware/etc. that really is. Most of them are just ugly hacks that in my longish Windows experience break fast anyway.
Therefore they still are usability boosts Ubuntu has that Windows doesn't.
> So, a broken feature on your distro is a bonus?
No; the rest, unbroken part is however.
> If you think a firewall is bloatware, I don't want you near my network, linux or no
Touchè. I really meant software firewall, and that is bloatware. Malware will get around it, period. "Norton Internet Security" anyone? Am I the only one who got their Windows connectivity fucked by ZoneAlarm?
I do have a firewall. It's my router.
> That's great, except not everything is available via every distro's install method. My
> god man, did you RTFA? He points this and most of the other important technical reasons
> Ubuntu and other desktop distros are just plain inferior from a useability
> standpoint.
My reply was -all- about the only distro I have real experience of, Ubuntu. My god, did you read the first sentence of my post!
I did read the RTFA and I do agree on some points, like sound. My post was not a reply to the Fine Article, it was a reply to sopssa.
> I'll grant you the stuff you can get from repositories makes installing/uninstalling very
> simple, I like it a lot, but there is too much out there that is not in the repositories,
> and that stuff is significantly more difficult to install.</quote>
Usually my solution is Google: for example, "google gadgets deb". If the destination is a bare deb link on some blog, then sure it will be suboptimal. Still IMHO the autoupdating feature only central repositories can bring to you with such consistency overvalues all kinds of "one click reinstall/repair" features. Oh, btw, there also is "aptitude appname reinstall".
Some apps aren't packaged yet and/or require me to work around my package system (read: manually install, install scripts, etc.) and I simply do not install them. I have the windows dual boot partition for the Windows equivalents of those after all.
> The windows model is also moving away from install "wizards" and encouraging MSI
> packages, which IMO beat repositories even, because a centralized database is not
> necessary, and you can run repair functions as well as simple removal and
> re-installation. Something like this for Linux would be a massive leap forward (it would
> even be simple to keep the repository model with a scripted installer package).
About msi packages, they are not evil, agreed. However, how many out-of-the-box-truly-automated zero-clicks-required msi packages have you ever seen? I have seen exactly one: the Quake Live browser plugin installer. Even the most barebone installers still force you through the intro page, the installing page and the done page in the old evil wizardy fashion.
> Nobody ever said [Linux] was [a Windows skin].
Granted, nobody said it in this discussion, it was more of a post scriptum about a point a lot of people silently assume. I simply took the advice from http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and the other 112 million google hits for "Linux is not Windows" and brought it forward.
Agreed.
Oh, and the author of the linked article has definitely never heard about this other Raymond Chen guy.
An eye opener read on how the Windows team goes almost disgusting ways to keep backwards compatibility:
http://www.informit.com/content/images/9780321440303/samplechapter/Chen_bonus_ch01.pdf
Oh, but the problem is that the real reasons why working in Ubuntu is better than working on Windows can't be seen in screenies. It's the sum of many small great touches :)
:D). Message boxes are done the right way -- (almost) no generic yes/no choices.
:D
;)
Some examples, in an ordered in no particular order list:
1. Multiple desktops. Stop the clutter at the bottom of the screen. Organising your work is as easy as pressing Ctrl-Alt-E (IIRC) or just Ctrl-(Alt)-<Arrow>.
2. Mouse wheel works on item however, not item focused. Want to scroll that document in a background window? Just move the mouse there and scroll away! You can also use the scrollwheel to cycle between desktops, tabs, windows, comboboxes and more.
3. An 'always on top' item in the window menu. If you need to copy data from app A to app B put app B at the top with two clicks (or a right mouse drag). No external bloatware required.
4. Middle click pasting. Now that app B is on top, select stuff normally from app A and middle click on the destination in app B. Voila': copy paste with the mouse only. And your Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V buffer (aka clipboard) stays untouched!
5. Notifications that get out of the way. Ubuntu 9.04 doesn't need no frikkin' baloons (and currently the method to bring them back doesn't work for me
6. If virtualization is good enough for videogames on a Mac (it is), then it is good enough for videogames on a Linux. (Non free; dunno about the free) versions of virtual box are able to use the processors' virtualization extensions and offer inbuilt OpenGL support. DirectX support is in the works. Hell, the (free) Ubuntu supported enterprise virtualization support doesn't even work without it.
7. Dual booting. You don't need to wipe Windows for that app you NEED to run in native Windows. Since you won't use it that much you can even not care on Windows to install all the damn bloatware like firewalls and antiviruses.
8. Installing, uninstalling and updating applications. So long as you keep true to installing EVERYTHING through whatever your distro uses to manage packages, 95% of that stuff is as hard as respectively checking boxes on, checking boxes off and clicking on "Install updates". No, you don't even need to mindlessly pound through wizards on the Next button waiting for it to become Finish.
9. Codecs. It is surprising how well codecs work on Linux, when you consider the not so solid situation on sound reproduction. Just downloaded an flv from youtube? No need for external players or convertors -- totem plays it out of the box. Totem will automatically prompt you to install missing codecs (see 8) when needed. Oh, and generally speaking, if you can play it, you can convert it to free formats like ogg or ogv.
10. Compiz. It's just too cool not to be mentioned, and AFAIK it predates the Windows and Mac equivalents.
Oh, an important thing to end this tl;dr comment:
Ubuntu is not a Windows skin.
It doesn't work like Windows.
It's *designed* not to.
If you try Ubuntu like a Windows skin you are going to fail. Full stop.
If you aren't interested in giving up on the way you work on Windows to approach different, not necessarily better ways of working then don't bother trying Ubuntu and while you're at it stop talking about it and just keep on going with Windows. Nobody is forcing you. Linux is all about choice.
My experience on this laptop (a Toshiba Equium M70-272):
;)
WinXP SP2 vs Ubuntu 7.04
Screen: default driver @ 800x600x16 vs default driver @ native resolution
Keyboard: default driver vs general driver
Sound: not recognised vs general driver
Wifi: not recognised vs Intel general driver
Printer: not recognised vs printer-specific CUPS support
Winmodem: not recognised vs default (non working) winmodem restricted driver
So... what is your point again?
For some reason, driver hunting for Windows is acceptable, but don't dare tell the guy trying Linux that Ubuntu might not pick up the play button on the side of the keyboard automagically!
Ok, let's assume they were malicious and all they worried about was lock-in. Then it would make sense to bork the ODF writing part.
But being able to correctly read ODF files would just be a big plus in an already great product like Excel. Why break the reading part?
Next time you hear Berlusconi going about how he made Italy great in the world, just reread this discussion and see for yourself what the world really thinks of us.
In my hereabouts we'd say "'mbuccalasagne".