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Microsoft Attacks Linux With Retail-Training Talking Points
DesiVideoGamer writes "Over at Overclock.net, a user has posted screen-shots from Microsoft's 'ExpertZone' training course entitled 'Linux vs. Windows 7.' This course is available to BestBuy employees and will make them eligible for a $10 copy of Windows 7 upon completion." The screenshots linked show at least some creative interpretations of the state of Linux vs. Windows on a wide range of things, from media playback and video conferencing to ease of updates to (of all things) keeping your PCs "safer." Most of the claims, though, aren't concrete enough to be perfectly refuted. Writes DesiVideoGamer, "I think I now know why, when I enter BestBuy, the employees say the odd lies that they do."
This course is available to BestBuy employees and will make them eligible for a $10 copy of Windows 7 upon completion.
I'll take the damn course if it'll get me a $10 copy of Win 7.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
No profit in free. What's the cheapest way of getting Windows 7? Buy a new computer. Who sells new computers? BestBuy. How do you get Linux? You download it for free and install it on your existing computer. Who doesn't sell you a new computer? BestBuy.
This course is available to BestBuy employees and will make them eligible for a $10 copy of Windows 7 upon completion."
Isn't this supposed to be an illegal business practice?
Fighting for the bottom feeders here aren't we? Linux in its current state on the desktop cannot compete with Win7.
OS X can and does.
I wonder how many Best Buy employees will sell their copy of Windows 7?
The Microsoft course has the effect of making ignorant Worst Buy employees more aware of Linux. Even ignorant employees probably know enough not to trust Microsoft.
So what?
Linux vendors would do exactly the same thing. Who is to say which OS is safer for example? It entirely depends on what metric you use to measure it. If for example you look at number of "hacker" style compromises then Linux is the worse but if we're looking at automatic spyware infection then obviously Windows is almost the only OS in that category.
I don't blame Microsoft for selling their products. That is what a software company SHOULD do. The only reason these are "stories" is because people [incorrectly] feel Linux is a community effort and that any attack on Linux is an attack on this community. But when you look at the people who donate MOST Linux code you'll quickly discover that Linux is about as community as Windows is...
So really this is just a slam at the Linux Vendors who have the cash to answer it...
I'm thinking of buying a netbook as a second machine for net access and mobile broadband. Should I get one with XP or can I run Linux?
M Shuttleworth
Linux has an apparently friendly front end, but is very demanding if you go any deeper. Linux is like the Mooncup: a nice idea, but messy and not for the squeamish. In fact, Linux can be likened to a Mooncup-using redhaired hippie girlfriend who lives in a house in the country she built herself from twigs and has very strong ideas on how everything should be and has all her original body hair. The sex is fantastic, but only if she thinks the astrological conditions are perfect. The house has a hand-dug latrine, so she's propped a toilet bowl on top and thinks that's "user friendliness."
No, no. You would far prefer Windows. That's like a nice normal bottle-blonde girlfriend who has a proper office job and dresses cleanly from Primark and has a sweet smile and lives in a proper bedsit and knows everyone and how to act normally and is accepted in society. She gets headaches a lot and fits of rage where she smashes everything and there's an odd smell of decaying human flesh coming from the drains and the toilet backs up every now and then filling the entire block with sewage and bits of bodies, but this is entirely normal and nothing to worry about.
My four-year-old PowerBook G4 is putting itself into sleep mode and refusing to wake up. It gives a very unfriendly beep and a black screen when it is turned on. Taking out and replacing the memory will eventually bring it to life.
S Jobs
This is a known fault in the Macintosh line, where the keyboards were dipped in vats of herpes virus before being shipped. Mac OS X is well known to induce symptoms similar to tertiary syphilis in long-term users -- ask anyone with Mac-using friends. The G4 has an old PowerPC chip, and is obsolete because Apple has long since moved to Intel chips. So at least you can run a proper operating system like Vista on the new ones.
I have a PC bought from Dell, a proper computer company, and am running Microsoft(tm) Windows(tm) Vista(tm) Service Pack 1(tm). It's the best operating system ever in the entire universe and I can do anything those annoying Mac users and Linux nerds can. And Windows 7(tm) will be even better! I don't have a problem, I just wanted to tell you this to piss off those annoying anti-Microsoft trolls who keep commenting on your Guardian column.
J Schofield
This is an excellent start to a perfect computing experience. Make sure you have only genuine Microsoft software on the system, and donâ(TM)t ever use Firefox in case your penis shrinks -- Internet Explorer 8 guarantees you will get many useful email offers for a greatly increased penis with incredible sperm production capability. Also, Google will invade your privacy and put pictures of you masturbating on Google StreetView, so only use Bing. Happy surfing!
http://rocknerd.co.uk
If Linux has brain-dead marketing drones it would have awesome "Year of the Linux Desktop" and "Linux vs. Windows" powerpoints / quizes / ads too.
... but this is SOP. Every tech company out there mixes batches of kool-aid to serve to their customers and retail partners. Of course, most aren't this pathetically bad at it.
I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
Sales and Marketing people have always been people incapable of coherent thought or doing honest work. They'll do whatever they can to get more money. The only thing worse than them are Executives.
But that's just how the world works, there's no use in lamenting this. It's certainly interesting to see this, but there's no need to act like this was some big surprise. Every company acts like this. A society composed of only honest people doing honest work probably wouldn't work - nobody has tried yet, though.
I don't hate Linux (in fact, I run it on all of my machines), but this is why Linux has not become popular on the desktop.
The first reply to the topic says this:
"Um WOW. THeir full of them selves. And if something dose not work with linux you can compile your own code and make it work."
It's this kind of mentality that keeps Linux from becoming more accessible. Imagine that you install Linux for your mom, and she can't get so and so program to work, so you tell her to just go into the source and edit a few things and recompile it. That's just not going to work.
You are now manually breathing.
The way to refute an inconcrete reply is with an answer that is equally inconcrete. For example, in one of the slides, they say "Windows is safer than Linux." The quickest way to refute it is to laugh. You don't even need to answer. If they try to hit on an emotional level, hit back on an emotional level. Once they come back with a more concrete assertion, you can begin refuting it on a more concrete level.
"Windows is safer because it has parental controls." Ooh, check out that argument, a clear attempt to change the subject. A typical geek will start by trying to think of any Linux software that can handle parental controls, and if there isn't one, start thinking of ways to write scripts and set permissions that will simulate it. Easier way to handle it is to smirk slightly, and say, "yeah, like that will keep hackers out." Roll your eyes. Don't let them get away with ridiculous arguments.
On the other hand, Microsoft is right in some of their points, Linux has fewer games available, Linux has less software available, Linux has fewer drivers available. Those are my biggest complaints with Linux too. In fact, they may be my only complaints.
Qxe4
One of the slides reads "Nothing is as complete as Windows 7".
Really? Three words: Service. Pack. 1.
And I'm pretty sure Linux has more FREE downloads than Windows. I'm also pretty sure that the rare security vulnerability occasionally found in Linux will be patched the next day.
If anyone's interested in going to a local Best Buy on 9/19/09 with CDs and flyers and encouraging people to try gnu/linux on their laptops before they buy, visit http://trygnulinux.com/sfd09
If Microsoft thinks it's a worthy battleground, perhaps we should as well.
Did they seriously just recommend WoW on a netbook? Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't think that was the goal of most netbooks.
I recently updated a machine that had not been used in about a year. This machine is on a site license, using the standard MS products. In the update i was greeted wth the MS Office anti-piracy update, and warned that if I did not update I would not know if I had a pirated copy, and that if I did there might be security implications. Of course we had spent a great deal of money acquiring the software, and the update reminded that no matter what, MS could pull the plug at any time, and they would not consider this properly licensed software valid until I added this spyware to my machine.
The cool thing is that Google is taking this licensing deal to the next level with the cloud. The cloud, at least in it's free form, is not all that useful for people who want a little more control over their computers, but for those who are raised MS, it is the next logical step. For all those that have focused on the simplified MS development model, and MS controlled software and hardware, I wonder what they will do in if google has all the software on the backend, and users just have chrome laptops.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Best Buy employees are not MS' employees, they really have no business doing the training of another corps' staff.
Really? Pharmaceutical companies do it all the time. Aircraft manufacturers do it all the time. As a matter of fact, in many industries it is quote common and even expected for one company to train another staff.
God! The irrational MS hatred is annoying and downright idiotic.You MS haters really need to get a life.
I also talk about the facts "M$ Windows VS GNU/Linux" with my friends. The big difference here is that they are MY FRIENDS so I DO NOT LIE to them.
Trust me, a *easy* way for a successful GNU/Linux propaganda is to talk (and possibly demonstrate) how GNU/Linux rocks when you are virus-cleaning your neighbor's computer at the same time. I don't know about you but I get called for this in a regular basis.
I am sure Best Buy is getting paid well for this, but ultimately it does hurt their reputation. One reason people go to a store like Best Buy is for information. If they get a reputation for giving out bad information then a lot of the reason for going there disappears. Granted, the typical reader of Slashdot probably doesn't need a lot of advice, and we probably know how to get better prices elsewhere. However, we do talk to a lot of people who are thinking about buying computers. I am thinking at this point it is probably better to go to Wal-mart where people assume the clerks know nothing about the products than it is to go to BestBuy where management is encouraging employees to give out bad information. I know there will be a lot of flames about the clerks at Best Buy being stupid, and people who rely on them are even stupider. However, I do know some Best Buy employees, and some of them are pretty sharp.
This is common practice for manufacturers. My wife, when at Intel, often put together materials that were to be used by sales people to push Intel processors.
At here current company she does the same to push their products over their competitors.
If the manufacturer doesn't educate the sales force on their product, then who will? And what is wrong with it? A consumer is the one who needs to make a decision and when it comes to ease of use and cost. Windows/Intel is still the perceived winner among the non-techie. (To be clear - Apple is too expensive for what you get and Linux is beyond most novices). (Oh, and don't try pushing that Apple "it just works" blather).
Most people don't like hacking around in Linux to get their printers to work, and certainly don't like to make purchase decisions based upon compatibility lists of a given distro.
If I'm ever really, really bored, I'm going to go to Best Buy wearing Barbie pink, act like I'm a novice user who wants to buy a netbook, and then refute their points one by one. Now that I know what they are... ;)
I doubt I'll ever be that bored, but its nice to know I have a plan C this winter.
the expertzone courses in question do the similar job of misreporting the abilities of a Mac vs. Win7... then MS turns around it all around when they have their course on Office for Mac... its all lies i tell you... its all lies.
I liked this one:
Linux is safer than windows
The Real Facts:
Are they talking about Linux or Windows? I thought it was quite clever that they could be referring to either, while implying that linux is the inferior one.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Obviously this will be linux biased on slashdot. Although I agree with best buy, linux has it uses but home computing isn't one of them, some people need an OS to work with as opposed to work on. They need to plug their junk in and have it work, and play games, and do their multimedia things, and not spend weeks learning how to configure things, and have it be compatible with their friends. Best Buy would probably make a killing off of support for linux though.
I love Linux but could I live without Windows? No. Could I live without Linux? Yes
It's great that BestBuy wants to make money and that one of the ways they can make money is to "partner" with companies, like Microsoft, that will pay them to lie. That's Capitalism for you.
It's also a prominent reason that I, and most of my friends, don't shop at BestBuy. We all know we'll be lied to from BestBuy. It'd be great to go up to a salesperson and feel confident that any questions will receive carefully considered, honest responses. But, what we get are push-products-sold-by-Company-X-because-they're-our-partner responses. So, unlike 1999 when I went to BestBuy once a week, now I go there maybe once every year. I just don't like their B.S.
Well, that and their policy to DEMAND I listen to their spiel about extended warranties, with no regard to whether or not I, the customer, want to hear that crap.
It's fairly clear that the presentation gets a few things wrong, but so does the article itself. To give a few examples:
No iPod support? Really?
It depends on what you mean by "iPod". Ubuntu wiki says: "Ubuntu works very well with iPods, except the iPod Touch, iPhone, and any other future generation Apple portable devices that do not show up as a generic storage device." It also has a separate link for setting up a new Nano, which involves performing a cryptic incantation in the shell (well, that's how any casual user will treat it anyway), so "support" is a bit of a stretch there as well.
So it's not correct to say that Ubuntu does not support iPods at all - as presentation seems to imply - but there are certainly problems in that department. The reviewer then goes into a rant on Zune support on OS X, which is rather irrelevant to the subject at hand, which is Win7 vs Linux.
I've yet to see a printer that doesn't have a driver.
Didn't see a lot of printers, then. It's fairly easy to find one without a driver, usually of a kind where a lot of processing is offloaded to software (i.e. printer driver).
Video chat with Pidgin? Or Skype?
Presentation is a little bit more specific (and vague at the same time) there: it declares "video chat on all major IM networks". These days this would probably mean MSN/Live, too, at least in North America. I also wonder if they count Yahoo IM as well.
redhaired hippie girlfriend ...The sex is fantastic
Isn't this against the spirit of DOJ's settlement with MS? This shouldn't be allowed when on anti-trust probation.
Table-ized A.I.
Microsoft acknowledges Linux as such a huge threat that they have to use Best Buy employees...the same people who convince you to buy a $50 cable you most certainly don't need to sell Windows 7.
Ironic that you use the word "facts" then later refer to Microsoft as "M$". Yeah, fair and balanced like Fox News, right?
You may claim to help your "friends" (I doubt they refer to you in the same fashon), but in reality you are just trying try to herd some sheep for the sake of feeling good about yourself. I take a different approach. I fix the problem then educate the user on how to avoid getting a virus in the first place, even without using Anti-Virus software. Soon they don't need me and they sure as hell don't need the headaches and disappointments of Linux.
Given that Best Buy employees still have to pay a Sawbuck to M$ for the win7. Ubuntu can be downloaded for free. Word Processing, Spread Sheets, and Presentation software can be downloaded for free from openOffice. for Bitmap, and Vectored Art there is GIMP, Inkscape, and Blender3D. For software development there is Eclipse. The current major development war going on is "Flash verses SVG"; it's not that Flash products can do more, it's that SVG can be done in Notepad++.
... because it updates *everything* (the operating system and all installed applications that come from the distribution).
And the "cannot tell what updates are required and which are optional" comment in Linux is ridiculous. In the update manager on Ubuntu (checked on 9.04), it clearly shows updates with "Important security updates", "Recommended updates" and "Other updates" listed, with a description of the changes.
I don't have much of an issue with the list itself. Obviously it's heavily biased, but I see nothing on there that can be called an outright lie.
My problem is the purpose of BestBuy sending staff to a presentation like that. It's specifically intended to give staff arguments to persuade customers to buy Windows. When the real goal of the staff should be to identify each customer's needs and guide them based on that.
It's one thing to make mention of a more expensive product to see if there's a chance of an upsale, it's quite another to be as one-sided as this presentation is. Whether the staff will recite that presentation to any and all customers, or simply use it as input for any customer that asks for examples of why to pick one over the other, remains to be seen. But I have a feeling....
I'll tell Linux how to beat M$: make a app store. I know, stupidly obvious, but there isn't one built into ubuntu. Needs to be as simple as iTunes Store, and everything just needs to just work, no compiling code or anything crazy. Fill it with tons of free software and M$ product equivalents like OpenOffice.
There has always been one. It is called apt-get. There are graphical user interfaces (synaptic package manager, for example) to it too. Loads of free software that just works. I don't see how one could beat it. (I guess it could be linked to some service where users can comment on the software, etc. if one wants to, but meh.)
It is not as if Apple invented the concept.
The days when you buy one computer for everything are over.
I have four PCs in my house that run Linux for ease of maintenance and security on the internet. One for each kid and one for me and my wife
I have one Mac that I bought for iLife -- for photos and to make home movies. It is nice but I'm not sure if I'll replace it when the time comes.
I have one XP box -- P4, 2Ghz, 1 GB RAM -- that the kids can play thier $5 bargain bin junk games on if they want to. Occasionally they use XP to play a web game that requires shockwave. But they usually get bored with those games pretty fast and would rather play on their Wii.
I can find more than enough web-based games that work in Linux to keep the kids busy for ever, and they like playing their games on their own computer, rather than having to share it with their brothers. I can afford to give each kid their own computer since the Linux computers are free. I couldn't do that (legally) with Windows.
Add in a couple smart phones and MP3 players. The days of one computer to do everything are over, and Linux can easily compete as one part of a multi-computer household
Ironic that you use the word "facts" then later refer to Microsoft as "M$".
Isn't Microsoft (MS) a multi-bilion-trilion-whatever company? If so, what's wrong of using M$ for that?
Bla bla bla. utter garbage talk.
No comments.
don't need the headaches and disappointments of Linux.
I don't comment opinions, we all have them.
- -
YAM$A - Yet Another M$ Astrosurfer.
Aren't we CONSTANTLY told by people on slashdot and in the general media that Linux is not a viable desktop operating system? If this is true, why does Microsoft need to train Best Buy employees to dissuade people from trying Linux?
The fact that this course is offered to BestBuy employees - and apparently only BestBuy employees - says something about consumer electronics retail in 2009 in the US. When I worked at CompUSA (pre - 2000) I frequently went to vendor-sponsored "classes" where they would give us food, beer, free hardware/software, etc, for listening to their pitch. We generally went there and found that there were also BestBuy, CircuitCity, and even OfficeMax or OfficeDepot employees, depending on what was being sold. Now of those five retailers (including CompUSA) only BestBuy remains a significant factor in consumer elecrtonics sales.
I'm surprised that Microsoft apparently didn't even think highly enough of Microcenter to invite them. I guess they are still rather small fish (in terms of market presence) at the moment.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
they don't believe in their own product.
Why do I say that? Because you don't see BMW giving free training videos to car salesmen comparing their cars to say GM or Chrysler or Ford, do you? BMW lives or dies by the quality and reputation of their products; they don't need to "educate" salesmen about their products. This smells of a desperation move where Microsoft must believe their Windows 7 doesn't compare favorably with Linux on netbooks, so they have to try to convince the Best Buy personnel, who let's face it, don't know as much about hardware and software as they know about marketing products, to push the Windows 7 stuff onto customers.
There have been some studies of performance of Windows 7 beta vs. Linux on netbooks which either have not have been clear win for Windows 7 or worse, have shown Windows 7 in an unflattering light. As for citations, the web sites that I can recall are Phoronix.com, and OSNews.com.
I mean trying to "educate" Best Buy sales people and having Windows 7 "House Parties" sounds a little pathetic don't you think? Did Microsoft do something similar when XP came out or even Vista?
In china, it only costs 2 for a copy. And that is the LEGAL VERSION DIRECT FROM MS.
"Aww, dangit! I got a BSOD again! Well, I knew it'd happen..."
"Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
I'll tell Linux how to beat M$: make a app store. I know, stupidly obvious, but there isn't one built into ubuntu.
I'm running Ubuntu 8.04 on my laptop, and System > Administration > Synaptic Package Manager looks a lot like an app store.
I have to say I'm a heavy Windows user and like Windows 7 a lot, but these kinds of campaigns really disgust me. And I was thinking about buying W7...
When is Windows not like Windows?
When Microsoft ships a new version.
When is Windows just like Windows?
When Microsoft ships a new version.
You all know that Windows 7 is not like any kind of Windows most people are running but as you should have seen if you RTFA, Microsoft's army of marketing droids still likes to tell people that it's Windows so you know it.
Besides this telling the world+dog that Microsoft is fighting Linux, look at the first mention of netbooks and Linux. The page title is about netbooks but the bullets are on PCs. They are being real careful to not allow the netbook to be labeled a special device or market segment and want it to be considered a limited function PC. The reason why is because if people think of the netbook as another device like say, an iPhone, they know that all the smoke and mirror tricks claiming having Windows is better goes out the windows. Peg the netbook as a little computer and people will think that having Windows on it is a good thing to do and if you put anything else on it, you'll have less functionality. The reality is, these resource constrained devices do more with Linux because Linux and OSS does better and can do more in these small devices. Think about it, you don't see Window XP, Vista, or Windows 7 on smartphones or MIDs devices.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
No, BlackBerry users are the ones who wish for a RIM job.
Just for you: here's an app store for Blender, a 3d modeling program. If you click that on most Debian boxes these days, it'll download Blender from the repository and install it for you appropriately in the menu. I'll leave the rest of the thousands of apps as an exercise for the reader.
Afterwards please remember to email me $0.99.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
In colloquial English usage, "slander" appears to have a broader meaning, roughly equivalent to Legalese "slander or libel". Read AC's post like this: "Defaming Microsoft is a major tool in the Linux advocate's handbag."
I've seen them ship free product to people who didn't order it to inflate their "install base" of a particular item.
Does this have anything to do with the allegation that trialware subsidizes the Windows royalty, which began soon after Sony experimented with charging extra not to include trialware? People who buy a new PC get a copy that they didn't pay for; trialware publishers paid for it instead.
This is a "features and benefits" document, presented electronically. This is a common sales practice
But is it also common practice to lie in a features and benefits document?
Click here to install the Linux Software Store with apt:url (if supported).
Help stamp out iliturcy.
And they have good reason to be. Every day in the data rooms I see windows being replaced by linux all the time. I have been working with linux since kernel 2.0.36 came out and have been impressed with it ever since. I also build systems for people on the side and almost every system I have built has linux on it in one shape or another. If you are to take a look at Microsofts track record you will realize that they are slowly losing popularity and functionality. Vista was for them a big disappointment. Its no wonder that they are coming out swinging at linux.
For microsoft, Windows7 is there last big "harrah" for getting an operating system right. Right now you pretty much are seeing the beginning of the decline for microsoft. However, I dont see them going away anytime soon. But its the beginning.
My personal opinion is that Linux is more rock solid than windows, Alot safer as per breakins and such go, And provides better support than windows. The age of having one monolithic operating system dominating the computer world is coming to an end and M$ knows it.
I seem to remember Linux supporting more hardware then any other OS...
Yeah, just not as much current hardware that you can still buy in big-box chains like Target and Best Buy.
i am going to go in to bestbuy every week and wear down the employees with every talking point i can muster showing Linux is better, they will be running to mcdonalds asking for employment applications after i get done with them.
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Ubuntu can be downloaded for free.
Not if you have a 5 GB monthly cap or (worse) dial-up. Then you have to pay CheapBytes the same sawbuck if you want it to get to your PC any time soon (i.e. faster than ShipIt).
Word Processing, Spread Sheets, and Presentation software can be downloaded for free from openOffice. for Bitmap, and Vectored Art there is GIMP, Inkscape, and Blender3D. For software development there is Eclipse.
Then what for games? Must Linux users stick to included games and online SWF games?
Microsoft stock is off 42% over the past decade. This does not look like the type of thing that's a good retirement investment. Of course, past experience does not always guarantee future results. Your mileage may vary. Consult your own investment advisor. For comparison, Apple is up 1000% over the same period.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
a worthless "restore" CD
The last computer I purchased didn't have a restore CD, it had a restore partition on the hard drive. However, there was a fairly straightforward method that I followed that allowed me to use the restore partition to make a windows install CD that made a fresh install of my OS.
reinstalling, which you *will* have to do now and then
That is at least as much the fault of the user as it is the fault of the OS. Intelligently setup windows boxes don't need OS reinstalls with any more frequency than their *nix counterparts; however many windows boxes are compromised by poorly informed users.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Pity the bandwidth of the site was exceeded - could not see the piccys.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Isn't Microsoft (MS) a multi-bilion-trilion-whatever company? If so, what's wrong of using M$ for that?
If you want to refer to the fact that Microsoft is a wealthy company, than do so. Changing the "S" to a dollar sign may accomplish the same thing in your mind, but the juvenile style of the delivery reflects very poorly on you. Do you wish to create a standard where every profitable company above a certain threshold replaces each letter "S" in the company name to a dollar sign? I highly doubt it. You need to grow up.
Bla bla bla. utter garbage talk.
Ouch. That comment about your so-called friends hit a little too close to home, eh? It's OK, you still have the Linux community.
Got Slashdotted. :D All the pictures on the page show "bandwidth exceeded" now. ;)
After years of not using a signature, I am going to make one to say the following: Fuck Beta
Yeah, that's right. Because this means that MS is that something the whole FOSS community has done these last years has worked and MS now actually feels threatened by it and the need to train salesman into fighting it. It is also good news because after all, there is no such thing as bad advertisement, and this is just going to spell out "Streissand effect".
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
Do you think Canonical and others should offer a similar course emphasizing the advantages of Ubuntu (or Fedora or something) over Windows 7?
Of course 90% of the people do not care too much about most of the questions shown at
http://windows7sins.org/
So I am talking about tangible, minute-to-minute usage questions, that these employees can argue on. Things like "with ubuntu you have this, this, and this for free from scratch, this other thing for free if you install it through the software manager, and this other thing if you pay X dollars for CrossOver."
Seems like this could easily backfire: The average computer doesn't know what Linux is, let alone anything about it. By teaching Best Buy employees about Linux, even in this derisive and misleading way, Microsoft is spreading the word about a competing operating system. It's entirely possible that by raising awareness of Linux's existence, they are paving the road for customers to inquire about what Linux is from the internet or their local "tech guy" (usually the youngest person in the household), rather than from some brainwashed teenager working at Best Buy. Meanwhile, real businesses with informed IT departments will continue to use Linux on their servers in overwhelming numbers. Perhaps the year of the Linux desktop is close at hand!
Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking.
Sure, most of the claims they make on Linux are really attacks, and some of the claims they make for Windows are exaggerations, but when it comes to easy of use, and support, I agree.
I have 5 computers at my home, all of them run some version of Windows. They all worked out of the box, my Anti-Virus and other security software does it's job quite well. And when there is a problem, I know how to fix it, I know where to look, it's familiar.
Every attempt I've made to job on the Linux band-wagon fails. When it comes to IT I'm not THE expert, I'm also not a novice. But I can't get Linux to work for me, I can't get it to do what I want. Once my computer is setup with some flavor of Linux, I can browse the internet, and edit text documents. My videos don't work, my voice chat doesn't work, my games don't work. And when I try to get help, I don't even know where to look, I don't have any numbers to call, and when I find some forum and post my problem, I might get a response, and that response might have language I understand, and it MIGHT solve my problem. With my Windows machines, I have numbers, I know where to look, and if I need support I always get an answer, and I always understand what the help says, and I always get my problem solved.
Now I will admit, it has been a while since I tried Linux. Windows does cost a VERY pretty penny, and I have a laptop that is in some serious need for change. So slashdot, this isn't a challenge, this is a real outreach. Me already having a bad experience with the switch to Linux, and being spoiled with Windows what Flavor would be best for me?
My Laptop is currently running XP. AMD Athlon 64bit processor, (~2Ghz, I can't really get to it right now to check), Half a Gig of ram.
I would like it to run my SNES emulator, browse the internet, some sort of office suite, Video chat (For my mother). And I'd like to be able to run Starcraft 1 (So maybe I need wine?) Also, if it's possible, I have an ehome infrared reciever, and a haupauge tuner. If I could have those working to replace MCE I would be sold.
So what Linux would be best for me?
Indoctrinate : to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments Educate : to develop mentally, morally, or aestheti
This is entirely impossible, because Windows "just works." It's easy to install software (10 out of 10 virus writer's agree), and it's secure (as long as the network cable is unplugged, and you don't power the box on).
Let me ask this? If it is the user's fault and not the OS, why doesn't anybody have to reinstall Linux due to "OS rot" ? Perhaps you didn't think Linux has users too? And no, not all Linux users are technically inclined. I have many contacts who use Linux and need it to just work because they don't know what to do if it doesn't. I think I got one call last year from one person. Everybody else is sailing along just fine, and they are the same caliber of user as the Windows users you are blaming.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
"Aww, dangit! I got a BSOD again! Well, I knew it'd happen..."
They should be training Bestbuy employees on how to properly manage demo machines. I came across this BSOD'd laptop at Bestbuy earlier this week and even after three employees walked by it, nothing was done.
I suppose I can't really complain as it's not his intention (I assume) that his thread will get slashdotted but why do people still use bandwidth limiting sites to host their image. Not everyone can view your post 5 seconds after you submit it.
Intelligently setup windows boxes don't need OS reinstalls with any more frequency than their *nix counterparts
That's not really true, the registry gets filled up with cruft that you cannot delete, and the WinSxS directory gets filled up to bursting with crap everytime you install something. In both case sthe OS cannot remove things, the registry for example is filled with things that might be used by a different user - so when you delete something, the OS has to leave it behind in case someone else still has is installed. At least, that's the reason given by Microsoft why the installer doesn't do it.
I'm sure there are more similar reasons, like .NET cruft that gets installed and kept 'just in case its needed later', COM objects, user application setting folders (in the hidden folders, have you seen that they get left behind, casual users don't because they're hidden from view to prevent tampering).
Ah, but windows (XP pre-installs) come out of the box moronically set up (default user is administrator being the biggest problem, much software assuming and requiring administrator access being the second).
Modern Linux desktop distros and MacOS come out of the (iso|box) intelligently set up.
Is this the fault of the user?
Seriously if MS has to teach BestBuy employees sales pitches to keep people from LINUX you know LINUX has made an impact on the average joe. All this will do isput the name LINUX into more peoples minds. It'll make people ask questions like.. Whats up with LINUX if BestBuy is trying to show me how much better W7 is VS LINUX? If they are trying to tell me W7 is the best compared to LINUX then LINUX must be up there? Maybe its good enough for me to try it out?
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Eric Raymond has an interesting article (2006) where he argues that big changes on the software market can only occur when there is an industry-wide switch in the hardware. According to Eric Raymond the window of opportunity created by the transition to 64bit platforms closes (has closed) in 2008. However I still see Windows Vista PCs on sale with 3GByte of memory because 64bit Windows lacks driver support and 32bit Windows can only address 4GByte of memory (minus 1GByte to address the graphics card AFAIK).
This is a good sign. The fact that Microsoft feels it necessary to attack Linux at the retail level shows that Linux is becoming more and more of a factor in the computing mainstream as well. Thanks, Microsoft, for supporting Linux.
I've been using Linux on servers for years but always used M$ on the desktop. When my MB blew and XP wouldn't run on the new one, I started using Ubuntu Desktop. Everything worked... generally with less drama than Windows. My DVD writer with Lightscribe worked, my laser printer worked of course. My Brother 5890 MFP scans and prints even though I can only get it to print from XP (It won't scan to XP... who knows why?).
I've been using Openoffice every since Word 2000 inexplicably stopped working on my XP machine even with a full reinstall. The only thing that was missing was Visio. Fortunately, my old version of Visio (which won't work on Vista) will work just fund under Wine on Linux... also without any messing around.
I used to be an advocate of Linux for people who didn't mind fiddling. Now I would suggest it for people who don't want to have to fiddle, so long as they don't need to get help from their local Windows-Geek.
always say how Linux has only 1%, or less, of the desktop marketplace? Well, I find that line of trolling pretty hilarious in light of this move by MS. Here MS is spending millions of dollars again against an enemy which only has a very small--according to all the shills--share of the market? Why is that? Is a competitor who has a perennial 1% share of the marketplace really [emphasis]that[/emphasis] threatening? Or, is the Linux share of the marketplace much greater than that?
Logic tells me that MS isn't going to perennially spend $10's to $100's of millions a year on something that isn't growing, and doesn't threaten, them in some significant way. MS used to focus just on the server aspect of Linux, now it's broadening that focus to include the Linux desktop. The fact that they have to lie says a lot about their desperation.
On a side note, I live in a small community--less than 50,000 population in 3 towns--that has a 4 year college located here. I'm beginning to find students in the local libraries running Linux on their laptops on fairly regular basis. This wasn't happening 2 or 3 years ago. I was the only person around running Linux on my laptop. Now it's becoming fairly regular to find other Linux users among the students. I'd say MS has reason to be very worried when even at the deeply discounted prices students pay for MS software people are turning to Linux with an increasingly common frequency.
Ah, but windows (XP pre-installs) come out of the box moronically set up (default user is administrator being the biggest problem, much software assuming and requiring administrator access being the second).
The current Windows version has been Vista for TWO AND A HALF YEARS at this point. The only way to even buy XP at all at this point is to get a Netbook, and that won't be the case in another 3 months anyway.
How long does Vista have to be current before Slashdot acknowledges it? Christ. If you're going to spout the propaganda, update it for 2007, please. If you're going to compare OSes, compare the *current* version of Windows with the *current* version of OS X and Linux.
Comment of the year
They don't have to. Just ask Nvidia about that one.
With MS Windows everyone copes with "you need service pack 4 to run this software" or other indications of a moving target. That's the way a lot of consumer and small business software is. At the big end of town vendors just specify RHEL4 or whatever. In nearly every case the "stable ABI" is there anyway since the applications don't care about the kernel, they just care whether certain libraries are there and they certainly behave in a much stable way than the DLL hell you get in systems without library versioning. So the linux distribution uses version 5 of the library and the application uses the totally incompatible version 2 - no problem, a half decent distro will give you the old version as well in some legacy package and a half decent application installer would include the old library as well. If neither is half decent it takes a few minutes on the net to track down the old library. There is no DLL hell, you have both libraries on the system and the application uses the one it was intended for.
So the answer, oddly enough, is that for applications you have a far more stable environment than on MS Windows and many hardware manufacturers have been dealing with the kernel side for a decade. The reality is not what you imply but simply resources. It takes effort to port things to different platforms no matter what they are. On the kernel side there are a lot of people that will happily put in time to support new bits of hardware, but for various reasons (such as fear of competition or legal action) some hardware vendors will not release the information required to do this. It's not about a "stable ABI" at all.
It would be a shame if Best Buy had to forgo all of those back-end co-marketing dollars. But it wouldn't be fair to keep giving them marketing incentives if they're giving preferred placement to the competition now, would it? The other vendors are more than happy to help with consumer education and it just wouldn't be right to let their commitment to the partnership go unrewarded.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
it doesn't get any better.
.. actually know what they are doing or selling. A 1 hour training video for a high school dropout with little to no real life experience is hardly a source for realistic and applicable technical knowledge.
You save on dollars at the register and pay later when its not what you really wanted.
I worked at burger king for 13 months when I was a kid... I didn't learn how to make burgers or fries, I learned what buttons to press to make the burger come out right (given its all BK gear and supplies). Its all the same... I worked for Sears too... same videos, same shallow knowledge to give the customers the facade of customer service.... And old navy... and the gap...
Buy local and you might find someone of experience in the field that has a level of person-to-person reverence; someone that is financially and personally culpable.
A lot of devices would work (and do work well) if the OEM would just go ahead and not be "cute" with the hardware
also changing the chipset used on a device and not changing the model number is worse than cute.
example anything that presents as a "Mass Storage Device" will work with Linux (with Automount even)
but Wifi cards tend to be a nightmare because
1 Firmware bounces all over the map
2 OEMs changing the chipsets without changing the model number (oh its a Version 4.5.6.nx3?? yeah they changed the chips)
what would help is if OEMs would put a rom chip on the device with a correct firmware
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
I took this course to get my Win7 Ultimate for $10, I did not take it to learn anything. Seriously, those of us in retail take courses like these all the times where different vendors feed us their propaganda and we answer correctly based on what they want us to answer to get free stuff. None of us really care.
Why don't you post news stories on Slashdot for every manufacturer that says something negative about another in these courses? Oh you know what, because you'd be posting something every day. But oh no, God forbid Linux gets mentioned by Microsoft in one the thousands of courses we can take to get free crap and its time to take screen shots and call the evening news.
Although I dual-boot both my slowly aging desktop and laptop with XP Pro and Kubuntu, I honestly don't see a reason to upgrade to Windows 7. I'm not a gamer, nor do I do video editing that would require the cutting edge processing speed and video card, or Direct X 10 for that matter. Any new hardware that comes out that I might use will more likely than not have a USB x.x jack on it, and the software will automatically run it at the fastest speed possible by my USB 2.0 ports. I don't do server work, but if I had learned how to do it, I probably would have stuck with Linux anyway. Its much easier to recover a system that has the command line backup when either X or explorer / System Restore become non-functional (yes, I could use FreeDOS on the Windows side, but that's not built into the system, I have to find another computer, download it, burn it, and run it from a CD or jump drive.)
So as an "average consumer" (that just does his own tech support because its more fun), I pose the question to Microsoft: Why bother?
The problem with your line of logic is that it's off the mark/incomplete.
When a blind person walked into BK did you and your fellow employees throw stumbling blocks in his way? Did you make sure that if he wanted whopper he got a whopper junior, or somebody had dropped his food in on the floor or spit in it? Did BK teach you to do that?
Basically that's what MS and BB are teaching BB's employees to do. An ignorant user--a blind man--comes in and asks for help. Does the BB employee he asks for help have a moral obligation to honestly help that blind man? If not, why not? And if not, why don't they have a moral obligation to someone who can't "see" for themselves? Has honesty become such a discarded concept that society at large thinks no one has a moral obligation to be honest with their fellow man, especially those who are in need of honest help?
"while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
OK... Windows (Vista Pre-Installs) come out of the box moronically set up. The default user is administrator but a window pops up asking for authorization for every action, whether it is a system-wide change or not, and if you turn it off no authorization is required even for system-wide changes. Furthermore, much vertical, printer/multifunction driver, and gaming software requires and assumes administrative access.
What are you doing on this forum, instead go somewhere the other boys go to!
First, I want to know what moron goes to Best Buy and asks the associate what they should buy? Oh, wait, that's right. Everyone not on /. does that. Too bad there's not enough intelligence in the US to do some due diligence and figure out what you really need. Lets go ask that 18 year old how I should spend my 5 grand.
I guess I forgot to add the point that I never expect a corporation to have honesty as policy at all and that I generally expect most of corps actions to have little to no regard for anything other than profit.
Very good point.
They offered it to Staples "EasyTech" (like "Geek Squad" but for Staples) employees as well... It's the same crap they make us do with all the other companies... At least this way we get an incentive. Staples has deals with Norton and HP, amongst others. They make us take "certification tests" where they basically say: "true or false? you should always recommend Norton as the best choice for A/V software" and you have to keep retaking it until you're completely indoctrinated.
http://ixnotes.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/microsoft-propaganda-handed-out-to-staples-employees/
I thought while we're talking about it I'd post these images of Microsoft's propaganda they've been distributing to Staples employees and rewriting it:
Numerous lies like greater compatibility than GNU/Linux-when most of the older hardware won't work with MS Windows Vista. GNU/Linux is compatible with more hardware than any operating system in history. It may not work with some of the latest and greatest-but for the most part it works better. I don't spend 3 hours fiddling with installing my printer drivers. I plug it in- and it just appears as an option in whatever program I need to print with.
The learning curve for GNU/Linux is generally not as high as it is for MS Windows Vista. Unlike what they claim MS Vista and MS Office 2007 software which customers would buy if they got Vista is more cumbersome, has a reduced feature set, is slow, lacks important features like PDF support, and so on.
GNU/Linux has better support generally than MS Windows. GNU/Linux supports stuff out of the box whereas with MS Windows users hand to install lots of bloated software, drivers, and waste time figuring out how to use it. GNU/Linux on the other hand can generally be had without such support headaches. Once you're introduced to shut down, applications menu, saving in different formats, and exporting to PDF it is just simpler.
Getting devices to work in MS Windows can require modification/and or troubleshooting. Hardware rarely works out of the box.
Microsoft want's you to believe that GNU/Linux netbooks have a higher return rate. The fact is that some manufacturers screwed up their GNU/Linux introductions to customers and their particular return rates were higher. Overall GNU/Linux is on part with MS Windows.
http://ixnotes.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/microsoft-propaganda-handed-out-to-staples-employees/ I thought while we're talking about it I'd post these images of Microsoft's propaganda they've been distributing to Staples employees. Numerous lies like greater compatibility than GNU/Linux-when most of the older hardware won't work with MS Windows Vista. GNU/Linux is compatible with more hardware than any operating system in history. It may not work with some of the latest and greatest-but for the most part it works better. I don't spend 3 hours fiddling with installing my printer drivers. I plug it in- and it just appears as an option in whatever program I need to print with. The learning curve for GNU/Linux is generally not as high as it is for MS Windows Vista. Unlike what they claim MS Vista and MS Office 2007 software which customers would buy if they got Vista is more cumbersome, has a reduced feature set, is slow, lacks important features like PDF support, and so on. GNU/Linux has better support generally than MS Windows. GNU/Linux supports stuff out of the box whereas with MS Windows users hand to install lots of bloated software, drivers, and waste time figuring out how to use it. GNU/Linux on the other hand can generally be had without such support headaches. Once you're introduced to shut down, applications menu, saving in different formats, and exporting to PDF it is just simpler. Getting devices to work in MS Windows can require modification/and or troubleshooting. Hardware rarely works out of the box. Microsoft want's you to believe that GNU/Linux netbooks have a higher return rate. The fact is that some manufacturers screwed up their GNU/Linux introductions to customers and their particular return rates were higher. Overall GNU/Linux is on par with MS Windows.
At this time, most of the people who walk into BB and ask for Linux probably know what they want. And they probably know a hell of a lot more about the subject than the average BB employee with his Microsoft talking points in hand. So all this will achieve is to generate ill will aimed at the sales people, and ultimately Best Buy. If BB corporate is letting Microsoft step in and screw around with their sales force, they deserve all the bad karma they're bound to get.
Have gnu, will travel.
I can say as a Best Buy employee, that yes, we were able to take these courses to get the Windows 7 early and cheap. However, saying that all Best Buy employees believe all of our trainings or saying we all say these kinds of lies is ridiculous. I work in the computer department, and took all these trainings like everyone else in my department. No one would say these kinds of "facts" to customers in my store, we actually know what we are talking about and don't lie to the customer about facts on a PC or a Mac. I know there are some stores that do this, some in my own district. But, just for the record, I'm trying to be an honest Best Buy employee. Also, due to the fact that we are not commissioned, it's not that the people are trying to trick customers. It's either that they don't care or they are stupid, and unfortunately, I have run into a lot of dumb Best Buy employees. Thankfully, the ones that came into my department were removed quickly.
Linux vs Windows is a fun debate that many nerds are interested in, due to Linux's special status, and many nerds have a passion for it, Slashdot is news for nerds, hence the article.
I'm sure most of the others are low-key debates like the merits of consumers buying Halo over Blizzard Starcraft, Epson over HP printers, Fujitsu VS TDK CD-Rs, or Mitsumi VS Samsung DVD-ROM drives, or VI vs Emacs are of little interest to most.
Those would be of interest to some, but probably not most slashdot readers.
But i'm sure if Intel put out some seriously negative propaganda about AMD CPUs, or nVidia put out some seriously nasty propaganda about ATI video cards, or HP put out some negative propaganda about Dells or Apples, massive numbers of slashdot readers would be concerned....
Much like they'd be if MS was involved. The bigger / more monopolistic the company, the more scandalous it is to put out negative propaganda about attempted competitors.
Because it's seen as a clearer abuse of monopoly power to quash attempts by weaker companies (or the community, in the case with Linux) to compete.
Your point seems to be that you can't be sure particular hardware will work with Linux. I haven't used Windows for several years so I can't comment on hardware issues with XP/Vista/W7, but I do know that on the 5 laptop/desktop computers in my household, every one "just works" with Ubuntu. Not a single hardware issue - not with a just-released printer/scanner from a supplier not known for their Linux support; not with the no-name PCMCIA wifi card one older laptop uses; or any of the built-in wifi adaptors.
I don't have access to unbiased datasets on this issue (I suspect that no-one does), but from my personal experience, this is a non-issue.
Do as you would be done to.
...they just use the programs that they are required to run windows to use. Mainly Gamers are effected by this. Its the audience that has the smallest option of comparable software on linux systems, or even mac if you want to talk. But is that the OS manufacturers fault? No.
Without gaming I bet Windows would die pretty quickly. Any of the masses wanna give it up?
http://quaoar.ww7.be/ms_fud_of_the_year/569458-microsoft-attack-linux-retail-level-probably.html Photobucket quota exceeded here is another place to see the screenshots
People say my sig is the best thing about me.
So the Truth gets modded as Troll?
Thanks. Its still true, like it or not.
Yes, after seeing the snapshots were no more showing, I have setup a mirror with snapshots included and unlimited bandwith : http://quaoar.ww7.be/ms_fud_of_the_year/569458-microsoft-attack-linux-retail-level-probably.html feel free to share the link, the server should support the slashdot effect . . . and i m monitoring server load ;)
Every time I read about what Microsoft really does...It angers me. (As I'm sure it does for some of you).
...But then, I step back and I recall the wise words of another:
"The most important thing the hacker community does is write better code. Our deeds are the best propaganda we have. Most of us, most of the time, shouldn't be distracted by worrying about beating Microsoft's PR or countering their political moves, because writing good code is in the long run a far more potent weapon than flackery."
-Eric S. Raymond
Thanks you very much! :)
If you cannot see the pics on the site goto: http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj203/godofgrunts/Linux/Linux1.jpg then, if you want to see more pics change the last number in the url EX: /Linux/Linux1.jpg
turns into /Linux/Linux2.jpg
Hope that helps.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.â
Mahatma Ghandi
OK... Windows (Vista Pre-Installs) come out of the box moronically set up. The default user is administrator but a window pops up asking for authorization for every action, whether it is a system-wide change or not, and if you turn it off no authorization is required even for system-wide changes.
So it's set up exactly like every single other OS on the market today, and that counts as "moronically" in your book. This post is great, because it lets me filter you out as an idiot to ignore in the future.
Furthermore, much vertical, printer/multifunction driver, and gaming software requires and assumes administrative access.
And that's Microsoft's fault... how?
Comment of the year
There are a couple of image mirrors, but for "just in case", I've made another one. Please don't hotlink (my upload speed is limited too) and/or abuse, thank you.
Image mirror
i read your email
I fix the problem then educate the user on how to avoid getting a virus in the first place, even without using Anti-Virus software. Soon they don't need me and they sure as hell don't need the headaches and disappointments of Linux.
Oh. I see the confusion. You see - your advice is bunk. They get another virus. And then they realize it's not worth asking you for advice anymore. Thus, they don't need you. They resign themselves to working around the headaches and disappointments of Windows. You've been a big help - I'm sure you feel better about yourself.
My pleasure ;)
My first slashdot effect and its not even mine, I m just a backup ;)
8GB bandwidth used in only 10 hours , I wanted to test this new dedicated server on heavy load . . . its perfect ;)
Bandwidth exceeded. Photobucket."
I don't see how that could be interpreted as Microsoft attacking Linux.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
I cant see the pictures because Photobucket is saying bandwith exceted, maybe someone should post them elsewhere (imageshack etc). I see I am not the only one :(
I cant get to a Best Buy because I live in Australia but I am wondering if Microsoft are doing this to other retail outlets. The basic premise is I take it Best Buy employees do not know any better to make an informed choice so they are easy targets. The average consumer wants Windows anyways because the average consumer only knows Windows and is too lazy to learn anything new (despite I think KDE and GNOME are easier to use for desktop purposes).
At least it shows that Linux has become a treat to the monopoly as a decade ago Microsoft use to pretend that Linux didn't exist and their only competition was MacOS.
This sig has been distributed under the Creative Commons license.
Faxes fax and wireless connects.
At least as well as Windows does.
E.g. try Win9x hardware on WinXP/Vista. Try WinVista hardware on Win9x.
And Linux handles this FAR better than Windows, since it doesn't demand that you leave all your driver development (which is a COST centre after first purchase) to the maker of the newer next-gen hardware.
Try doing that with WinVista.
Does your peabody work Under Vista? How about XP 64 bit??
PS the change from 2.4 to 2.6 was about the same as the change from Win9x to the NT line.
38 GBs of bandwidth used by the mirror in less than 48 hours ;)
I were right to put it on a powerful server ;)