I would be surprised if a Microsoft-developed technology for improving Windows development experience wasn't popular on Windows, since it really seems to me to be the obvious choice and ought to have first class support.
Support from Microsoft is incidental to the success of C#/.net. If Sun had released a package with similar capabilities, they'd have had similar success.
If Mono as good or better than the other options for Linux development, then I think it's worth considering. So what I'm wondering is whether Mono itself is desirable for implementing software on non-Windows platforms.
Then stop typing long, pointless, Slashdot posts and go make some Mono software. I have no idea what it would take to satisfy you, so you might just have to move your ass and find your own answers at some point.
Java + QT might help with the GUI side? I've heard lots of people say that Java's GUI programming is rubbish, but QT generally seems to be well-regarded. Usually when I need to knock up a GUI I use Python + QT, which works remarkably well though I've never done (or needed to do) a really big program in it.
Yes, I've heard of a million tools and tool-combinations to give Java a native look-and-feel, and still I've yet to see a single actual Java application with native look-and-feel.
When you say CLI and Java aren't mutually exclusive - is there a means of running Java on CLI yet? That sounds doable and would be cool. CLI really could be a unified backend, then.
But, seriously... My point is that with Mono advocacy being pushed quite hard in the face of so many kinds of public opposition it must bring pretty amazing technical benefits to inspire such devotion against so much political opposition.
My wager is that most of the people "pushing" Mono are people who have experienced C# development on Windows, and know how well it works. It's basically a war between the people who want to make great software in a great environment, and the people who only care about "Freedom."
(Not that Mono is necessarily "anti-Freedom", but that's the way the "Freedom" advocates talk about it.)
Some folks, on both sides, seem to just be digging their heels in for the sake of "being write" which is obscuring the real technical merits of the debate and making the whole thing look pretty murky.
From my experience, Mono fans are just trying to write software. The whole political mess comes from the people who actually care about political crap and don't care, as much, about writing software.
I've not heard of many majorly popular new applications being written in it beyond the original headliners of Banshee / F-Spot / Tomboy / Beagle.
There are thousands of applications in Windows written in C#, or other.net languages. You need to broaden your experiences.
This, along with all the noise, is what led me to wonder how much developer demand for Mono there really is, vs "merely" a demand for the existing applications vs an innate desire to propagate a major new project.
The noise is all coming from people who spend more time arguing about the intricacies of the GPL version 2 vs. version 3 and legal this and allowed uses that and blah blah blah licensing shit real coders shouldn't care about.
The people wanting to use Mono *just want to make good software* without wasting time wading through licensing shit.
I don't trust Microsoft in general but there's quite clearly a large group of people who are, independently, just saying that Mono is good.
That's because it is. Your trust of Microsoft has absolutely nothing to do with whether Mono is good or not.
The real deal-breaker with Java is that after decades of work, it's still impossible to make a GUI application with native look-and-feel using Java. C#/CLI could do it from day one, and still can on every platform it runs on. Bam, that settles it for me. I don't know enough about Java to address your other concerns, except that Java and CLI aren't mutually-exclusive.
C# / Mono have pretty little effect on me as a developer as I actually do have a legitimate need to work mostly in plain old C
If I had to write software in C again, I'd quit.
Re:Yes, yes, all very impressive
on
VLC 1.0.0 Released
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· Score: 4, Insightful
What's broken about it? I'm using 0.9.9 now (or whatever the last release was), and I don't have any issues with the volume control.
(As an aside - holy shit is Google getting scary! To calculate that, I typed in "1.92 million * 3.5 megabytes" and it said "6.40869141 terabytes". Then I asked it "6.41 terabytes / 256kbps" and got 6.81574337 years. I'm starting to think we should be referring to Google as 'a logic called Joe'.:S )
Because it has a calculator? My TI-85 could do that in 1995, and I wasn't wetting my pants over it. (Actually, I'm not sure if it had "bytes" as a built-in unit...)
Considering your entire "question" is basically slamming it, I doubt you'll care what people answer.
But for the record, yes, it is *that* good.
The controversy is all over political crap, not the quality of the language or runtime. If you want to write software, and don't care about political crap, there's virtually nothing out there better than C# and the CLI right now.
Given that this is Slashdot, I'm surprised you don't have 4 or 5 copies in your closet. But, also given this is Slashdot, somehow I think you can come u wig a way to get it. Pretty petty of that's all that is holding you back.
Considering the alternative to the MPAA system is government censorship, I think it's brilliant. (No matter how worthless the ratings themselves are.) Voluntary rating systems are always better than government rating systems, which is one of the reasons I like living in the US so much-- most countries, the government determines which movies, books, comics, music you can experience. Screw them.
My copy of Vista Ultimate does not support RAID1. I don't know where you are seeing this support- all my copy has is RAID0. I know you can tweak a registry setting to allow it, bit that hardly counts as "support".
To begin with, every NT-lineage Windows version ever produced supports software RAID out of the box.
I'm sitting in front of a copy of Vista Ultimate right here that doesn't. Do you have a citation or anything? Or are you using some alternate use of the word "supports" that doesn't mean "supported by Microsoft?"
In fact, I don't think I've ever lost data on FAT without a hardware failure (e.g. bad floppy disk), whereas I've seen Windows delete multi-gigabyte files from NTFS disks after a power-failure. And any blue screen with Firefox open on an NTFS partition would normally delete all my bookmarks.
That happens to me, too... I suspect it's because Firefox keeps its bookmarks in a SQLite DB, and just keeps the connection open the entire time the program is running, not giving SQLite any time to "cleanup" when the file closes.
Strangely, the same thing doesn't happen in IE, which as far as I'm concerned puts the blame firmly in Firefox's court.
That all said, NTFS is *far, far* more reliable for me than Fat32 ever was. Adding to that, since he's using Fat32 on a HD that's undoubtedly in the hundreds-of-gigabytes range, he's using it *way* out-of-spec, a situation Fat32 was never designed to handle. (But NTFS was.)
If you want data integrity, use NTFS. Using Fat32 is like saying you want a reliable car, so you're buying a Edsel because they've been around a long time-- it doesn't make sense. Every other OS on earth can read NTFS (if not write it), so it won't affect your portability requirement.
Secondly, before you make any decision regarding Windows 7 RAID, make sure the edition of Windows 7 you want to buy ships with software RAID support before you put all your eggs in that basket-- early betas and RCs of Vista had software RAID enabled, only to have it disabled before release. I've seen no guarantees about Windows 7 software RAID support, and which editions will have it enabled. (If any.)
If you're planning to move to a server OS after Windows 7 expires, I can practically guarantee software RAID will be enabled, but that still doesn't mean you can necessarily upgrade your Windows 7 software RAID array to a Windows Server software RAID array. Do your homework.
Ok, then maybe I'm a total 'tard, but I thought the midwest started at the Mississippi River? Isn't Indianapolis in the great lakes? If you live in Indianapolis, do you consider yourself as being in the midwest?
Like I said, maybe I'm all skewed for being born and raised on the west coast, but you're completely challenging my entire notion of "the midwest."
First, consoles have no API. You use the hardware directly.
Wow, you're writing this post from a time-warp! Because all modern consoles certainly have an API, and some of them (like Xbox) have an extremely extensive API.
Wow, you've completely missed the entire *point* of the grandparent's post to focus on a trivial technical error. Which was probably a joke you didn't get in the first place. You win Slashdot.
You might want to check those trees again, I think there might be a forest hidden in there.
You're probably used to the business world. In the games world, the project manager is the creative vision of the game. Analogous to the director of a movie.
In any case, if you have useless project managers that says a lot more about your company's hiring practice than the value of a project manager.
By your argument Linux should not exist since commercial OS's are so hard to compete with. Labor is not the issue with open software,
Yah it is.
Where are the great open source artists, musicians, screenwriters, modelers, level designers? Those all count as "labor", buddy. And the open source community has few-to-none of them. (For good reason: those people like to be paid.)
Having a good idea to attract people doesn't help make a finished game if you only attract programmers.
There are so many gamers so pissed off with the commercial game world who would leap all over a by-the-gamer-for-the-gamer open source revolution. So what's pissing us gamers off? How about paying upwards of $50 for a game only to have seven hours of single player game play and mediocre multiplayer with hardly any servers. Or amazing graphics, sophisticated sandbox gaming (Cryengine) and it's all over in that 7 hours of cookie-cutter linear storyline with little replay value (Crysis). Throw some buggy code and DRM and you have all the reasons to be angry.
And yet Crysis is orders of magnitude better than, say, Alien Arena or Blood Frontier. For example, I can play Crysis for more than 5 minutes without getting pissed off at it's horrible UI, unlike the two games named above.
Slashdot Mirror
T-SQL uses a double dash "--" for comments.
-- This is a comment.
Drives me nuts. You can also mix the C-style /* */ comments.
You're definition of "well-known" must be different than mine...
It's called a "troll". Don't feed it, or it'll come back.
I would be surprised if a Microsoft-developed technology for improving Windows development experience wasn't popular on Windows, since it really seems to me to be the obvious choice and ought to have first class support.
Support from Microsoft is incidental to the success of C#/.net. If Sun had released a package with similar capabilities, they'd have had similar success.
If Mono as good or better than the other options for Linux development, then I think it's worth considering. So what I'm wondering is whether Mono itself is desirable for implementing software on non-Windows platforms.
Then stop typing long, pointless, Slashdot posts and go make some Mono software. I have no idea what it would take to satisfy you, so you might just have to move your ass and find your own answers at some point.
Java + QT might help with the GUI side? I've heard lots of people say that Java's GUI programming is rubbish, but QT generally seems to be well-regarded. Usually when I need to knock up a GUI I use Python + QT, which works remarkably well though I've never done (or needed to do) a really big program in it.
Yes, I've heard of a million tools and tool-combinations to give Java a native look-and-feel, and still I've yet to see a single actual Java application with native look-and-feel.
When you say CLI and Java aren't mutually exclusive - is there a means of running Java on CLI yet? That sounds doable and would be cool. CLI really could be a unified backend, then.
There is in Windows: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=E3CF70A9-84CA-4FEA-9E7D-7D674D2C7CA1&displaylang=en
I can't speak to Linux. But there's nothing preventing it except putting the man-hours in.
But, seriously ... My point is that with Mono advocacy being pushed quite hard in the face of so many kinds of public opposition it must bring pretty amazing technical benefits to inspire such devotion against so much political opposition.
My wager is that most of the people "pushing" Mono are people who have experienced C# development on Windows, and know how well it works. It's basically a war between the people who want to make great software in a great environment, and the people who only care about "Freedom."
(Not that Mono is necessarily "anti-Freedom", but that's the way the "Freedom" advocates talk about it.)
Some folks, on both sides, seem to just be digging their heels in for the sake of "being write" which is obscuring the real technical merits of the debate and making the whole thing look pretty murky.
From my experience, Mono fans are just trying to write software. The whole political mess comes from the people who actually care about political crap and don't care, as much, about writing software.
I've not heard of many majorly popular new applications being written in it beyond the original headliners of Banshee / F-Spot / Tomboy / Beagle.
There are thousands of applications in Windows written in C#, or other .net languages. You need to broaden your experiences.
This, along with all the noise, is what led me to wonder how much developer demand for Mono there really is, vs "merely" a demand for the existing applications vs an innate desire to propagate a major new project.
The noise is all coming from people who spend more time arguing about the intricacies of the GPL version 2 vs. version 3 and legal this and allowed uses that and blah blah blah licensing shit real coders shouldn't care about.
The people wanting to use Mono *just want to make good software* without wasting time wading through licensing shit.
I don't trust Microsoft in general but there's quite clearly a large group of people who are, independently, just saying that Mono is good.
That's because it is. Your trust of Microsoft has absolutely nothing to do with whether Mono is good or not.
The real deal-breaker with Java is that after decades of work, it's still impossible to make a GUI application with native look-and-feel using Java. C#/CLI could do it from day one, and still can on every platform it runs on. Bam, that settles it for me. I don't know enough about Java to address your other concerns, except that Java and CLI aren't mutually-exclusive.
C# / Mono have pretty little effect on me as a developer as I actually do have a legitimate need to work mostly in plain old C
If I had to write software in C again, I'd quit.
What's broken about it? I'm using 0.9.9 now (or whatever the last release was), and I don't have any issues with the volume control.
(As an aside - holy shit is Google getting scary! To calculate that, I typed in "1.92 million * 3.5 megabytes" and it said "6.40869141 terabytes". Then I asked it "6.41 terabytes / 256kbps" and got 6.81574337 years. I'm starting to think we should be referring to Google as 'a logic called Joe'. :S )
Because it has a calculator? My TI-85 could do that in 1995, and I wasn't wetting my pants over it. (Actually, I'm not sure if it had "bytes" as a built-in unit...)
Considering your entire "question" is basically slamming it, I doubt you'll care what people answer.
But for the record, yes, it is *that* good.
The controversy is all over political crap, not the quality of the language or runtime. If you want to write software, and don't care about political crap, there's virtually nothing out there better than C# and the CLI right now.
We need a clear, unambiguous policy that nukes are absolutely forbidden for every state with no double standards.
Oh, well, that's ok because the US has tons of double-standards. (Or maybe I parsed that sentence wrong...)
Given that this is Slashdot, I'm surprised you don't have 4 or 5 copies in your closet. But, also given this is Slashdot, somehow I think you can come u wig a way to get it. Pretty petty of that's all that is holding you back.
Virtual PC is free; just run Windows 98 and play in that.
I'm glad I don't live in the US :P
Ignore that; he only typed it because dozens of government surveillance cameras were watching.
You're right, it's a bad example. But, still, try Alien Arena or Blood Frontier-- trust me, it could be a thousand times worse.
Considering the alternative to the MPAA system is government censorship, I think it's brilliant. (No matter how worthless the ratings themselves are.) Voluntary rating systems are always better than government rating systems, which is one of the reasons I like living in the US so much-- most countries, the government determines which movies, books, comics, music you can experience. Screw them.
My copy of Vista Ultimate does not support RAID1. I don't know where you are seeing this support- all my copy has is RAID0. I know you can tweak a registry setting to allow it, bit that hardly counts as "support".
As others have mentioned, I also agree that RAID0 isn't raid. Even if you do consider it RAID, it doesn't address the submitter's request.
To begin with, every NT-lineage Windows version ever produced supports software RAID out of the box.
I'm sitting in front of a copy of Vista Ultimate right here that doesn't. Do you have a citation or anything? Or are you using some alternate use of the word "supports" that doesn't mean "supported by Microsoft?"
In fact, I don't think I've ever lost data on FAT without a hardware failure (e.g. bad floppy disk), whereas I've seen Windows delete multi-gigabyte files from NTFS disks after a power-failure. And any blue screen with Firefox open on an NTFS partition would normally delete all my bookmarks.
That happens to me, too... I suspect it's because Firefox keeps its bookmarks in a SQLite DB, and just keeps the connection open the entire time the program is running, not giving SQLite any time to "cleanup" when the file closes.
Strangely, the same thing doesn't happen in IE, which as far as I'm concerned puts the blame firmly in Firefox's court.
That all said, NTFS is *far, far* more reliable for me than Fat32 ever was. Adding to that, since he's using Fat32 on a HD that's undoubtedly in the hundreds-of-gigabytes range, he's using it *way* out-of-spec, a situation Fat32 was never designed to handle. (But NTFS was.)
If you want data integrity, use NTFS. Using Fat32 is like saying you want a reliable car, so you're buying a Edsel because they've been around a long time-- it doesn't make sense. Every other OS on earth can read NTFS (if not write it), so it won't affect your portability requirement.
Secondly, before you make any decision regarding Windows 7 RAID, make sure the edition of Windows 7 you want to buy ships with software RAID support before you put all your eggs in that basket-- early betas and RCs of Vista had software RAID enabled, only to have it disabled before release. I've seen no guarantees about Windows 7 software RAID support, and which editions will have it enabled. (If any.)
If you're planning to move to a server OS after Windows 7 expires, I can practically guarantee software RAID will be enabled, but that still doesn't mean you can necessarily upgrade your Windows 7 software RAID array to a Windows Server software RAID array. Do your homework.
Ok, then maybe I'm a total 'tard, but I thought the midwest started at the Mississippi River? Isn't Indianapolis in the great lakes? If you live in Indianapolis, do you consider yourself as being in the midwest?
Like I said, maybe I'm all skewed for being born and raised on the west coast, but you're completely challenging my entire notion of "the midwest."
First, consoles have no API. You use the hardware directly.
Wow, you're writing this post from a time-warp! Because all modern consoles certainly have an API, and some of them (like Xbox) have an extremely extensive API.
Wow, you've completely missed the entire *point* of the grandparent's post to focus on a trivial technical error. Which was probably a joke you didn't get in the first place. You win Slashdot.
You might want to check those trees again, I think there might be a forest hidden in there.
You're probably used to the business world. In the games world, the project manager is the creative vision of the game. Analogous to the director of a movie.
In any case, if you have useless project managers that says a lot more about your company's hiring practice than the value of a project manager.
By your argument Linux should not exist since commercial OS's are so hard to compete with. Labor is not the issue with open software,
Yah it is.
Where are the great open source artists, musicians, screenwriters, modelers, level designers? Those all count as "labor", buddy. And the open source community has few-to-none of them. (For good reason: those people like to be paid.)
Having a good idea to attract people doesn't help make a finished game if you only attract programmers.
There are so many gamers so pissed off with the commercial game world who would leap all over a by-the-gamer-for-the-gamer open source revolution. So what's pissing us gamers off? How about paying upwards of $50 for a game only to have seven hours of single player game play and mediocre multiplayer with hardly any servers. Or amazing graphics, sophisticated sandbox gaming (Cryengine) and it's all over in that 7 hours of cookie-cutter linear storyline with little replay value (Crysis). Throw some buggy code and DRM and you have all the reasons to be angry.
And yet Crysis is orders of magnitude better than, say, Alien Arena or Blood Frontier. For example, I can play Crysis for more than 5 minutes without getting pissed off at it's horrible UI, unlike the two games named above.
That's ok, I can't stand Snowcrash. (That's almost a crime on this forum.) No opinion on Neuromancer, since I haven't read it since middle school.