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New Video of Tesla's Mass-Market Electric Car
Slatterz writes "The Tesla Roadster has almost mythical status among electric car enthusiasts. It's fast, with high torque over a wide RPM range, and can beat a Ferrari in terms of acceleration. Now Tesla has released new video of its upcoming new electric car, called the Model S, which Tesla Motors claims is the world's first mass produced fully-electric vehicle. Unlike the Lotus-Elise based Roadster, the Model S is a traditional sedan of the type millions of commuters might actually drive. Tesla claims it will fit seven people (if two of them are 'children under 10'), and has mounted a rather large 17in LCD in the dash. Key to Telsa's future will be the evolution of lithium-ion battery technology. Tesla Motors claiming the new Model S can travel up to 300 miles on a single charge, but the battery will still take 45 minutes to quick-recharge." (And for those in countries where it matters, this article mentions that it should also be available in right-hand drive.)
And here I was expecting video of something of Tesla's. Now that would be cool. Instead it's just some electric car.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
7 people? Where are the clowns?
At $50,000 do they think it is too expensive to call it the model T? Do they think calling it the model T would be too arrogant? Maybe the next one will be cheaper and then they will go ahead and give it the next name. After all we would all like to see the model T version of the electric car that will get us off of expensive oil.
So much for it being affordable...
$49,000 USD AFTER deducting the $7,500 federal tax credit.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
How does it shield the batteries against impact, etc. causing fire/explosion?
It's great to see an electric car this cool for so cheap. I mean, $50k isn't cheap, but it's cheap in comparison to their other car, an it seems generally more practical. If I were going to buy a car, I might consider this, but I might very well decide that $50k is just too much.
I'm wondering, though, does anyone know what kind of profit margin Tesla is getting on these? Is the government subsidizing these at all (for environmental reasons)? Are they in the sort of situation where, as they start selling, Tesla will enjoy economy of scale and prices will go down substantially? Or is this price pretty firm?
Instead of wasting energy making it accelerate unnecessarily quickly, how about giving it a usefully long range? A 0-60 time of 5.6 seconds is all very well, but the range and top speed can't compete with ordinary cars. I guess it fits well in the American market where cars seem to need to have a quick 0-60 time but never need to go any faster than 65mph.
300 miles will take some 4 hours to drive, you could prob do with at least a 45 min rest ... so this is finally acceptable range for an electric car.
I live in Ireland, drive a left-hand drive and it has never caused me any problems. The odd time I can't overtake because I cant see but other than that I actually prefer the left hand drive. i started off in a right hand drive but never really liked it. I never had to get used to the left hand drive and if i go back to a right hand drive now it will take me ages to get used to it.
I could go buy a new Toyota Corolla and drive it 400,000 miles for what it cost to buy one of these.
It will be purchased buy rich people who will spend more time in airplanes than they will in this car.
I think the only way 7 people are going to fit in them is if 2 of them are dead bodies in the trunk.
A Magic the Gathering Article and Forum Aggregator
$50.000 ~ 35.000 euros Tesla model S looks like a luxury sedan. The same money would buy you a low end Mercedes or BMW in Europe, but with nowhere near the performance of 0-60mph in 5 seconds. For that kind of performance you would probably have to go with a turbo-charged compact, but the fuel economy is gone and you won't have the same interior space. If the numbers they advertise are true, it's quite a cheap car to buy, all things considered.
It's just under 300 miles from Banning, CA, to Phoenix, AZ. Wonder what the mileage would be for that drive leaving Banning around 10 am the first week of September and using the air-conditioner. Probably wouldn't get to Blyth which is about half way. The electric and hybrid car ads and news stories never talk about the added burden of the air-conditioner and its power requirements.
Nate
And for those in countries where it matters, this article mentions that it should also be available in right-hand drive.
Where it matters? Do some countries have laws dictating that sort of thing? AFAIK, that sort of thing of more de facto than de jure. I, personally, would love to have a right-hand drive car here in the US. Because otherwise when you park on the street the most-used seat/door is exposed to traffic.
Summary says it takes 45 minutes for a quick charge while the article states: "Batteries that last for 289,000 km have been demonstrated, as well as the ability to 'quick charge' batteries to 80% in less than 10 minutes. " Perhaps it's 45 minutes for a full charge?
If you are about to mod me down, keep in mind that this post was most likely sarcastic.
Sounds of silence
Celeb voices ring true
Homer goes Wroom wroom!
Solved that for ya
Well, I don't know if I can wait til 2011!
$49K USD? Is that in 2009 dollars, or 2011 dollars? :-) If there is a massive period of dollar hyper-inflation in the next year, I think Tesla can stand to make a lot of money on promises no one can afford to keep.
Oh, well. The Maserati Quattroporte is available today, and the 5l, V-12 Aston Martin Rapide will be out momentarily. Along with Jaguar's recent XF and 2010 redesign for the XJ, these seem to be the flag-carriers that Tesla seems to be following in the style and design department.
Rapide: Girls NOT included, but driving this car? They will likely show up of their own accord.
http://randomepics.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/aston_martin_rapide_067.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFta44S_JFs
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Chevrolet Volt (has a gas engine that works as a range-extender after the first 40 miles)
http://www.chevrolet.com/experience/fuel-solutions/electric/
Aptera (fully electric)
http://www.aptera.com/
I'm personally considering an Aptera as soon as they are available for sale near me.
GENERATION 25: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
The article is optimistic in my opinion.
Let's assume they're talking about the same pack as in the Roadster (even though the pack you get for $57.4K is lesser capacity). That means you're putting in 45kWh in 10 minutes. That's a charge rate of more than 270kW. That will require 440V power (3-phase) at 600A! And that's assuming 100% efficiency!
There's going to be a lot of places where you can't get that much power. And even if you can, the amount of waste heat giving off by the charger, and in the pack will be very difficult to manage. Also, the charging cable would be a bit of a hassle to wrestle because it's going to be very thick.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
And what's up with the interior, Tesla?
Ugh. Were the Mitsubishi plants in Normal, IL shutting down, and offering a bargain on Eclipse fittings?
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
Really? They won't be able to hire someone who can tell ITS from IT IS?
Instead of recharging the batteries, why not just swap out the battery itself? You know, kinda like propane tanks. Range problem solved! But batteries are heavy, so there has to be a standardized, automated way to change them.
I guess you would fill it up at a gas station, just like you do with your existing car.
I like the looks, the center "iCar" console screen, and it's unlikely I'll ever drive anywhere further than 300 miles. For any significant distance, I'm on a plane.
The price doesn't seem that bad, but I bet it's closer to $60K by launch. Even then, I will probably take a look at one.
I am my own gestalt.
I believe the two child seats fold out into the trunk area...the rear-facing kids' bench used to be common on station wagons, but it is quite unusual for a large sedan. Interior pictures would be nice.
Fictional dollars. The price of the roadster went up significantly between pre-order and release; no reason the S will be any different. And as with the Roadster, I think we'll see the specs change for the worse as well. (45-minute charge? As has been pointed out, the math doesn't add up, and the chemistry doesn't work either)
That the car only went about 50 miles or so with an 18 hour charge time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG3bMKR5eXk
So the Tesla Roadster actually has better acceleration than the Rapide, and considering Wikipedia quotes the Rapide at $240k USD compared to the $110~120k USD for the 2009 Roadster, I'd say the roadster wins on bang for buck there. The Model S in tfa is set to cost ~$49k USD and is still one helluva luxury car. And more than just the initial price, the Model S (supposedly according to Tesla marketing anyway) will cost only $4 dollars to fully recharge from empty.
I could probably rant all day, but the point is, the offerings from Tesla Motors puts an electric car with performance as high as the gas equivalent in the price range of mere mortals and doesn't require you to be an Apple stock millionaire or sell your ocean front property just to buy the damned car...
The easy solution is to replace gas stations with battery swap stations.
You trade in your current battery for a full battery and maybe get some credit for the 10% energy you had left. They then add your battery to the ranks of charging batteries waiting for the next customer.
there is no god but truth, and reality is its prophet
I'd be surprised if they even let electric cars drive into a gas station, let alone let them fill up... the risk of sparks leading to fire/explosion is way too great. These will have to be purpose built electric stations.
At a 45 minute fill up time they'll have to be *big* to accomodate all the waiting cars, too.. and provide refereshments/food.
Troll, that's a loan. Loans typically have to get paid back with interest.
Also, according to wolfram alpha, there are approximately 115.2M people employed in the United States. The loan was for $465M. This averages out to $4.04 per taxpayer. Not a whole lot to take off now is it?
What crops do I plant that take in CO2 and output gasoline?
My friends are drivin Prius
I'm feelin depressed
Worked hard all my lifetime, I need to impress
So, Lord won't you by me a Tesla Model S
I may not be a smart man, but I know what an inode is.
A (wealthy) friend had his delivered recently. Here's my twisty road test report.
Executive Summary: Oh. My. God.
Systems Lacking: 4-point harnesses, sufficient handholds for passenger, automated system to maintain directional control during GLOC on launch, earplugs to block whimpering sounds from passenger seat
Thats why electrics didnt pan out at the turn of the last century, and its a dead end now.
The Tesla Roadster, driven like a sports car, cant make 85 mile range.
So I guess itll take me five or six day (moreâ¦) to go to San Diego and back to San Francisco.
Whoopee!
45-minute charge? As has been pointed out, the math doesn't add up, and the chemistry doesn't work either
The math does work out, provided you can supply the required current. However, it probably requires the 480v-3phase to do so. They say it costs $4 to fully charge, so I'll go with the low cost of $0.10/kwh, giving 40kwh total required. A 480v-3phase connector can supply >30amps/phase, which does work out to about 45 min for a full charge.
Also, the lithium chemistry does support charging that quickly.
I know there has been some research into using capacitors instead of batteries because they charge nearly instantly and then using some complex circuitry to discharge slowly as a battery would. I wonder if that research was a failure or if it is still ongoing?
Another thought is that what if a large capacitor were used to charge the batteries? Would it then be possible to quick charge the capacitor and then let the capacitor charge the battery? I wonder how efficient it all might be.
The Better Place project They are developing the entire EV stack, the car, the charging stations, battery pack swapout, etc. Nissan/Renault are building the cars. They are talking that in some circumstances, the upfront costs will be less, as they are going to follow something like a cellphone plan,get the ride for cheaper up front, then pay them for the juice to run it. Private charging stations for at home, then at various places out on the road for fast charging or battery swapout, so you can do trips as well. It is a *very* ambitious project, but several nations and states and some cities inside the US have signed into the deal so far.
With that said, same as every other electric gadget out there, my bet would be some Chinese manufacturers will be the first to get really cheap/affordable electric cars on the mass market. Chery and BYD seem to be the ones to watch.
It doesn't take long for markets to change, or for the big names to fall. I remember when seeing a Japanese car was not happening at all, to then it got to ultra rare and guys said they would never catch on to now they have superior marques and cred and have a huge international market. So who knows, the transportation sector is going through more changes than ever today. And we ARE going to be getting quite a bit more choice than what we had previously, prices, drivetrains, fuel source, all of it.
Here's an interesting new electric truck that is soon to hit the market the IDEA. A city delivery truck.
Tell ya the one I would want, a mild hybrid, diesel electric, extended cab, 4wd work truck. For short range around the farm, electric only, need to go further, the diesel kicks the generator on. Stationary it would be a whole house electric backup system/job site generator. Haven't seen any proposed yet, but if someone builds one, I bet they would sell, there's a lot of guys out there who want/need trucks, just would be nicer if they had better mileage and that diesel genny option built in would be *sweet*. With some plugin battery capacity, even if it is just say 10 miles, pure gravy. Being a truck, they could even make that an option, say 10 came standard, then you could pay more for each additional battery pack to give ten more miles on the charge up to some reasonable limit, say 50 miles maybe (you wouldn't want to lose all your cargo capacity in other words, but have options to suit each guy's needs).
The other idea I really like is a pure electric ride, then an attachable generator trailer for long trips. Best of both worlds that way, the electric modular hybrid. You wouldn't even need to buy the generator trailer unless you wanted to, the dealers (or whomever...) could have them for rent for the times you need to travel long distance, and that could be for both cars and trucks.
After about a week you'll get a message like this:
Your battery can only hold 2% of it's original capacity. To learn about replacement options, please click here.
The designer / technician in the video calls the Model S "the iPhone of the auto industry". So your troll-modded comment is rather insightful indeed! Mods, quick!
Thank for reading to the sig. You may stop reading now. It is safe. There is no more content. Why are you still reading?
I live in the midwest. I have a lot of family over the range of this vehicle. However, for day to day operation, I wouldn't need more than 100 miles in range. A vehicle like this would be my car for driving to work and driving home.
For driving long distances, I'd just use a gas-based vehicle. I'd keep my old car around for that. Probably would need it half a dozen times during the year at most.
There will be some folks who will find the range of this car to be limiting. But how many compared to those who won't?
I think the real issue here is the calendar life of the battery. How long until I have to replace the batteries? That's what makes it easier for me to compare, apples to apples, the cost of the car vs. using gas.
Based on the info I read here: http://www.teslamotors.com/blog2/?p=39 .... I'm not too impressed with the thought of 50,000 life on the batteries. ...
Of course, hopefully whatever the battery replacement would be in 5 years of advancing battery technology would make the replacement battery a smart replacement for other reasons
OK, that would make sense... I think. Hard to picture, though.
But I guess that's because Tesla - unlike the mainstream auto makers - actually hope to sell some.
Um, they let the Toyota Prius into gas stations, whats wrong with a fully electric car?
People are way too scared of gasoline. But its probably for the better.
A relative of mine puts 100,0000 miles on a car in a year. That's a lot of fuel.
Deleted
Does $50k buy you a $18k gas car, but fully electric, or does it buy you something on the level of a $40k Audi, but electric? Looking at the pics, I think its at the higher end of that scale.
Great Odin! They want $50K+ for that thing? It's a nice car but not that nice...sorry.
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
Gave me a boner.
finally a car which will make me apply for driving license
Along most typical highways there are electricity transmission lines. You could build a standard box which attaches to the transmission line. It contains a data interface which can be used for billing. It would be a bit like a USB interface where the consumer has to negotiate with a server to get the full power supply switched on.
If EVs become common you could attach one of these to a power pylon every kilometre or so. Anybody who needs to stop and charge could do so.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
I wonder how much extra it will cost to have the blue LEDs stripped off the outside, the blue lights removed from the inside and replaced with dull red (because I like to be able to see at night), and the 17" touchscreen ripped out and replaced with knobs and dials you can operate by feel rather than sight (because looking at the road is good)?
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
They aren't an established company like GM or Ford, it makes sense for them to start out with high-end customized vehicles, grow large on that, and then slowly descend into the mass market as economies of scale start to kick in.
Henry Ford's production cars were mass market from Day 1. That distinguished them from almost everything else on the road.
Oldsmobile had pioneered the idea - but the Olds was an toy-like gas buggy:
Now when they go for a spin, you know,
She tries to learn the auto, so
He lets her steer, while he gets her ear
And whispers soft and low...
In My Merry Oldsmobile
Ford didn't wait for economies of scale to kick in. His engineers designed economies of scale into the car - into the production line.
Ford was relentless in his drive to eliminate skilled craft work. His four cylinder engine was cast as a single block - a first, I believe.
The Ford Model A and Model T were tough and versatile - mass market sales meant that Ford had real money to spend on R&D.
But Ford did enter the business as a young man. He was very slow in adopting later innovations like the electric starter.
The emphasis on color, style and comfort that marked the entry of the Chevy.
Three Phase 440v is already Installed in most Gas/Service stations thanks to the rooftop HVAC requiring three-phase and the base install for three-phase being 3phase 600v.
Bury a line over to a new "Pump", add a billing interface and cosmetic and functional concerns, such as a price/unit window akin to a classic pump, cable and cable management (let's face it, aside from being probably 3x as heavy, a cable capable of handling the power isnt going to be much thicker than a 1 1/4" hose, which is what we use for gas pumps.) Add a Heatsink, Probably possible to use the gasoline and diesel storage tanks as a heatsink, and You're done. Compared to the enviromental hurdles jumped in order to put in a common gas pump, or maintain them, And it'd be a no-brainer for any one Gas station franchise trying to get a leg-up over its competitors. Assuming the cars are on the road and the companies can agree on a common charging interface.
I thought I read that the Roadster had a 54 kWhr battery pack, so I assume the Model S has the same. To charge it fully in 45 minutes would take 72 kW -- which is 330 amps at 220 volts.
No engine under the hood means you can fit two in there.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
A/C does not require 3-phase, how ridiculous. There are plenty of gas stations in my area (California!) that have a smaller building than my house, they don't need 3-phase to cool that.
The total wire area should be over 1 1/4" for 600A, but either way, the hoses we use for gas are much much lighter than a the cables are.
Using gas or Diesel tanks for a heat sink is ridiculous. It's supposed to be safe, but if anything goes wrong, your liability would be enormous.
Either way, that's not going to fix the heat problem in the battery pack itself. The pack isn't going to heat up any less when being charged in 10 minutes than it would being discharged in 10 minutes, and on the Tesla roadster it reduces performance after a few minutes of max effort to reduce the heat, and that's only a discharge rate which would empty it in a bit over 20 minutes!
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
notice the 45 minute quick charge.
I don't think it's possible that you could get 300 miles on a 45 minute charge off of a regular household power line.
my estimate:
to push a honda accord shaped object at 55 mph through the air takes over 30KW of energy. that would take 5.4 hours. to to recharge that would take 220 KW of power assuming no conversion loss.
if you used a 220 volt line that would be 1000 amps for 45 minutes. There's no way they would use a 480 volt line since those are catastrophically unsafe for consumers.
I don't have a 1000 amp service at my house!
So I don't think the 45 minute quick charge can be used int he same sentence as the 300 miles. But if its some lesser milage then the whole 45 minute statment seems weirdly arbitrary. Why not say it has a 5 minute quick charge?
Since the tesla folks are not stupid and have delivered in the past, I'm perplexed what is going on. Are there going to be special kilo amp charging stations. or did I bork my own math?
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
this thing has high voltage components, so what happens if you try to drive it through two or three feet of water, like you see during flash flooding? granted, you are not supposed to drive through rushing water in a car, but the first time someone does, they will die, the rescue squad will die and everyone else who touches it before the batteries die, will die...
Ask Me About... The 80's!
Don't worry; the blue exterior lights aren't street-legal anyway.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I can see these popping up, or else just taking a little break for 15 min. Honestly, 200 miles takes about 3 hours to drive in a car. A 10 minute quick charge is no big deal to wait.
..........FULL STOP.
If you plan on driving your truck for 300k miles@ 20 MPG, then that's 15,000 gallons of fuel - which is pretty good for a "truck". You are really paying less than $2 per gallon? Gas seems to average around $2.75 and to be fair, it will probably only increase in price. So I'll call it an even $3/gallon, which will make fuel coasts around $45,000 for 300K if you were to buy your truck now. Unless your truck is a diesel, then some major engine repair/ maintenance costs would be probably fair to also add in, as well as transmission repairs/replacements.
Powerline costs on an electric car will be changing the battery at 100,000 miles and will cost $12,000 , so 300k miles would have operating costs around $24,000 +$3,000(electricity). Not too bad. The electric motor/transmission should not need ANY repairs during that time. I imagine significant R&D and economy of scale will tend to drive this price down significantly by then.
..........FULL STOP.
The price per taxpayer is irrelevant, it's the principle of the matter that's important.
Looking at all tax paying employees does not factor in the current income tax bracket scheme, there is no flat tax which applies to all those employed.
Throwing out a name along with your data, shows you have succumb to corporate propaganda, not that your data is accurate.
Assuming you taxable population estimate is accurate at 115M, and the loan is for ten years at an 8% compounded interest rate, the total amount would be approximately $1Billion.
approx. 3.4M people would pay at a 35% tax rate which is $350M or $103/person
approx. 11.5M people would pay at a 33% tax rate which is $330M or $29/person
approx. 40M people would pay at a 28% tax rate which is $280M or $7/person
approx. 34.5M people would pay at a 25% tax rate which is $250M or $7/person
approx. 17M people would pay at a 15% tax rate which is $150M or $8/person
approx. 8M people would pay at a 10% tax rate which is $100M or $12/person
Depending on who you are and what bracket you fall into you may not want to bail out a failing company so that someone else can buy a car from said company. Those figures do not include the other financial, auto, and insurance companies that were recipients of government loans.
Of course, we can standardise the batteries and built exchange stations like miniature versions of those container ports (think of the batteries as containers).
But I suspect, each manufacturer will patent the form factor of their battery (even if it delivers within the same parameters) for maximum lock-in.
On y va, qui mal y pense!
I hope they make a version that fits my 11' tall children.
Spooooon!!!!!
I hope they don't get this stupid idea of adding noise to it.
What I don't like: handles that disappear - that has no decent failure recover (what if the power fails? How do emergency services gain access?)
What I like: a dash I may be able to hack. The ultimate "pimp my ride" for any geek. Caveat: this should be isolated from the driver and control electronics because that is safety. You don't mess with safety (IMHO).
I like the idea overall. Heck, I may even invest in covering my roof with solar power - I want to bet that generating your own power will be taxed very soon - if cars like this become common there is a lot of fuel revenue the governments are going to miss out on..
Insert
How many kWh do you need to use to hit the top tier rate of $0.33/kWh?
$0.33/kWh is almost like running your own generator.
See: http://www.generatorjoe.net/page.asp?id=61
Power companies should be using stuff that's far more efficient.
What in the world are they burning to produce your electricity? Extra virgin olive oil?
A 600A 480V 3 phase feed will give you 864000 watts of available power without taking power factor into account. It would only require a 200A 480V 3 phase feed to charge the car. That brings the infrastructure cost back down to sane levels.
With 600A 440V you'd better have close to 100% efficiency or it's going to be time to break out the marshmallows.
You don't have to operate by sight: there is another sense called proprioception, which, in conjunction, with memory, would be sufficient to hit the right spots.
I don't understand the current thinking that only a full-sized electric car will help us. Small three-wheeler electric vehicles for commuters, that are *affordable*, would help immensely. The only ones I've seen cost more than a civic hybrid (e.g. http://www.flytheroad.com/)
300 miles of range? What about after 1 year of daily use? After 2 years?
How much does it cost to replace the worn out Li-Ion battery pack?
The Dell Laptops we have at work seem to consistently wear down to about 1 hour of capacity after one year of use... That is down from 5 hours capacity when the packs were new.
So I figure maybe the batteries need to be replaced every year on a commuting vehicle... Anyone care to provide a credible estimate of how that impacts cost of ownership for this vehicle?
wag more
bark less
Feeling for a digital touch button to adjust volume instead of a knob in the winter with my mitts on seems a little moronic.
Give me knobs I can feel any day.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
Problems with this line of thought:
.
1)Where in TFA did it say 80% in 10 minutes?
2)You use the Roadster pack for your calculations even while admitting the pack we're really talking about is smaller. Obviously it takes fewer watts to charge a smaller pack.
3)Where do you get 440V? Hint: your wall jack isn't really "one-ten."
4)You calculated the amperage as though it was a single-phase source even while you specified three-phase.
.
Leaving the first two alone and using your assumptions, the correct current for a 480V three-phase source would be 187.5A. Which is well within the grid's capabilities.
Given a choice between free speech and free beer, most people will take the beer.
Funny, I've driven my EV into many gas stations, and have never had anyone give me trouble about it. Actually, that whole concept is downright laughable. What, they're going to have some guy running around checking for tailpipes?
Given a choice between free speech and free beer, most people will take the beer.
Take your flat-tax shit someplace else. The difficulty in earning each marginal dollar is vastly more progressive than the tax code.
Given a choice between free speech and free beer, most people will take the beer.
I'm not proposing a flat-tax ideal, I hate all taxes whether they be progressive, regressive, flat or otherwise.
Seriously? Why?
I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
Presumably because it makes people mistake your vehicle for a police car. Red lights (except on the rear, like brake lights) are illegal too, since they're used by firetrucks and ambulances.
That's the theory, anyway: you could also cynically argue that the real reason they (along with dark/reflective/colored window tint) are illegal is because the authorities want an extra excuse to hassle the sort of people who use these lights (e.g. the import street-racing crowd with their underbody neons, etc.).
Pulling some poor sap over for illegal tint/illegal lights/etc. gives the officer an extra chance to go on a fishing expedition for more profitable offenses, such as DUI or drug possession (especially if he can trick the driver into consenting to a search).
Note, by the way, that this sort of law varies considerably by jurisdiction in terms of what colors are illegal, where (on the car) and how many lights are allowed, etc.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I think your sig is strangely appropriate.
I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.