The point is that you should be able to have whatever you want. Everyone should. But, the key is that to accomplish that, you don't have to force everyone to use software X. All you have to do is work more on the frameworks/standards/APIs/ABIs/etc etc, methods for common communication, so that you can help streamline Linux. In other words, reducing fragmentation should be accomplished through the use of better programming and planning and communication, not through forcing everyone to do something a certain way.
Once Linux is easier to program for, easier to install software on, and in general more streamlined and gives everyone more freedom and simplicity, Linux will be much, much better and bigger.
The wrong questions/comments are being made. The problem should not be addressed by "standardization" in the sense of forcing everyone to use one program, in the sense of rules and requirements to only accomplish X. The "standardization" should occur instead by the best meaning of the term, which is to use planning and technology to solve problems, and to establish common communication methods, and for those to then be adopted naturally, without force. APIs/ABIs are the answer, not "only support 'distro' X".
All the problems that Linux has as far as fragmentation, immobility, lack of choice, "unmodularity" basically, can be solved by creating the frameworks/APIs/structures/standards which allow programs to get along, and which allow users to have the freedom to use the software they want, easily. Once those great programs/interfaces/protocols/etc are in place, once the system for running, installing, and developing software for Linux is much more smooth and easier, Linux will be much, much more successful.
It will unfortunately probably help do the job which should be done correctly to begin with by the patent office, however instead of fixing a system which should not exist, effort and money should be put into getting rid of patents.
*re-reads Microsoft's history, their dealings with Linux, of EEEing everyone, of breaking standards and ultimately never allowing things to be completely open and always having some kind of strings attached*
Yeah, I do think their past behavior matters. I'm not touching Microsoft with a ten foot pole.
Or going within chair throwing distance, for that matter.
I almost swallowed my toothbrush seeing that headline. Wait wait, here's us Linux users rushing to view the Inaguration in a Microsoft format when we can view it in plenty of other formats instead...
Yay! Everyone does it! Microsoft and Apple both do it! Even the so-called "inventors" of ideas probably weren't the first ones to think of it! Most things I wouldn't even call "inventions" any way, it's just putting 1 and 1 together!
There are lots of open source protocols that were programmed by open source programmers. "Linux" has it's own so-called "directory services" programs. Yet, when they also make a program that uses Microsoft's protocols for the completely sole purpose of allowing interoperability for use in Microsoft ecosystems, it's a bad thing?
So I guess you'd make fun of all the companies making parts for Ford cars other than Ford too huh?:)
If Linux's algorithm is superior, how long before Microsoft implements it? I love it how since they have a lot of money, they can take things from others who aren't assholes and be assholes themselves by patenting them. Not that Linux doesn't have any patents itself and isn't backed by several large corporations, but MS just seem to always be able to be the bigger dicks.
And not in a good way.
...I have got to change my language by finding words that are actually negative. Maybe I'll start adopting British slang...
I don't care how fast the package management system is, I just want one that can import some solid standardized and cross-distro packaging formats without the stupid "Ooops, we haven't made a package for your specific version of your specific distro yet, thus good luck compiling!" crap that you run into so often on the net. It's a headache for users and developers alike.
It's sadly almost the real perception out there about Linux for some. Windows has lots of (crappy) marketing and most of all a *tradition* of being on the PC, so many are like...Linux....WTF?:P
When they do try out Linux, if they do, they often quickly encounter the problem with the Windows platform being still easier for the most part in getting/running programs. As in, going out on the net, having the widest selection of software, and most likely being able to easily install them. When those users try to do that on Linux machines, they often can't because of the Linux Packaging Mess(tm). Even though repositories make getting quite a bit of software easy, even easier than on Windows, they still want the freedom to be able to go anywhere and install anything on the internet as well. Yet the attitude among some Linux-butts is that users don't need or shouldn't want this freedom, which is pretty sad.
Yes, Linux still has several areas it really needs to clean up to make the experience more pleasurable, but so far it has come very far.
Distros need to be seen as software bundles and nothing more, that's the way I explain it to unfamiliar users. What does this software bundle contain, what does that one contain...eventually the terms Gnome and KDE should become fairly common since "which desktop do you have?" would become common to ask unless one of the two radically overtakes the other.
This is for Linux in general, a software update that all distros should adopt, and anyone should be able to install themselves even though currently the latter isn't possible with Linux packaging being hosed.
If this is true, and somehow Google decided not to allow Android on the phone (without forking/renaming it or whatnot), for whatever reason, it's too bad they didn't pick something else to put on it like OpenMoko or whatnot. They obviously already had the drivers for it, so there wouldn't have been an issue there.
Regardless, it's sad that programs aren't being programmed to be flexible enough to support most any screen resolution. When working with phones, being able to support small resolutions should be a topic of interest.
I'd like to see a kernel that could do things like coping with new drivers without a reboot, and even find a way to "move things over" to a new kernel before shutting down the old one instead of having to reboot for that. I'm sure it's possible somehow, to be able to "hot swap" everything running on top of the old kernel to the new one, somehow. The expectations for creativity need to be raised higher. ^^
Once Linux is modularized enough so that it can load anything on-the-fly, and then even better, figure out how to hot swap itself to a new kernel without requiring a reboot even for that, THEN I will say that rebooting Linux is completely insane.
Um, yeah it's free if you want to continue sharing the code that you use if you make changes to it. Whoopty freakin' do. Why would you want to lock it down, why would you use someone's work for free but then not share yourself? Pretty hypocritical, but you can use BSD or something instead then if that's what you want. Or, if you want to, you CAN make proprietary complimentary programs or whatnot, or not distribute the code and keep it internal which is also legal to do with the GPL.
Why would you want to use someone's work for free, but then want to lock down your contributions any way? Very hypocritical, but if that's what you want, go BSD.
It's just software and should be available for anyone to easily install. Having that selection of software come default bundled in an ISO is useful though if that's where you want your "starting point" for the software you want to be.
Yes, programs were updated, "distro" isos bundled those updates, another fun year of Linux software development indeedy. ^^
Politics and such can be interesting sorta, but the most interesting things to me are the best new software features, and great new Linux software in general. IMO, Linux software projects should be much more of a focus in the media, and less politics. New features and new software, especially that which is cross-distro so everyone can have access. (was going to say cross-platform too, but that's not the point of the Linux section) ^^
While you're right in that it's foolish not to consider the total cost, but the fact is Linux is free, so it will always be a smart long-term decision, it doesn't matter the initial costs because it WILL always be cheaper. It doesn't require more expensive hardware, it is the best long-term investment you can make. If any software is needed that doesn't exist yet, switch and it will come, especially for such a big organization switching.
It's just easier to call you a troll, or stupid, sorry.
While considering the cost of anything, you have to look at the TCO (total cost of ownership). Office = costly upgrade treadmill. OOo = supported for years & years * possibly centuries, depending, but basically some other piece of open source office software would have to really really really start kicking it's butt for support for OOo to vanish, and even if the support did vanish in, the cost of switching to some other piece of open source office software would be um zero, provided it wasn't too different that you'd need training.
Games will creep onto Linux, regardless of their license. It could happen faster but there needs to be more systems set up to pull in the money easily for new titles, and also the Linux packaging mess really needs to be finally sorted out.
Steam is one good start for Linux but there definitely needs to be more. Microsoft still has nearly complete control over Linux in average PC space any way, with basically none of the big stores carrying Linux products except the super rare online-only Walmart PC, or the Best Buy Ubuntu box. Without the ability for consumers to choose Linux and save money, this won't happen for a while.
Doesn't have the plethora of plugins that Firefox does either, and with the new versions of Firefox, it's largely caught up speed-wise but no doubt has a ways to go before it's equal in speed to Opera.
Slashdot Mirror
The point is that you should be able to have whatever you want. Everyone should. But, the key is that to accomplish that, you don't have to force everyone to use software X. All you have to do is work more on the frameworks/standards/APIs/ABIs/etc etc, methods for common communication, so that you can help streamline Linux. In other words, reducing fragmentation should be accomplished through the use of better programming and planning and communication, not through forcing everyone to do something a certain way.
Once Linux is easier to program for, easier to install software on, and in general more streamlined and gives everyone more freedom and simplicity, Linux will be much, much better and bigger.
The wrong questions/comments are being made. The problem should not be addressed by "standardization" in the sense of forcing everyone to use one program, in the sense of rules and requirements to only accomplish X. The "standardization" should occur instead by the best meaning of the term, which is to use planning and technology to solve problems, and to establish common communication methods, and for those to then be adopted naturally, without force. APIs/ABIs are the answer, not "only support 'distro' X".
All the problems that Linux has as far as fragmentation, immobility, lack of choice, "unmodularity" basically, can be solved by creating the frameworks/APIs/structures/standards which allow programs to get along, and which allow users to have the freedom to use the software they want, easily. Once those great programs/interfaces/protocols/etc are in place, once the system for running, installing, and developing software for Linux is much more smooth and easier, Linux will be much, much more successful.
It will unfortunately probably help do the job which should be done correctly to begin with by the patent office, however instead of fixing a system which should not exist, effort and money should be put into getting rid of patents.
Information should be shared.
Dunno, you'd hope so since it is the government, free and equal access should be their goal.
*re-reads Microsoft's history, their dealings with Linux, of EEEing everyone, of breaking standards and ultimately never allowing things to be completely open and always having some kind of strings attached*
Yeah, I do think their past behavior matters. I'm not touching Microsoft with a ten foot pole.
Or going within chair throwing distance, for that matter.
Vorbis and Dirac FTW. Vorbis plays out of the box in Firefox 3.1.
I almost swallowed my toothbrush seeing that headline. Wait wait, here's us Linux users rushing to view the Inaguration in a Microsoft format when we can view it in plenty of other formats instead...
.........
Good interpretation, I know. *bow* ^^
Yay! Everyone does it! Microsoft and Apple both do it! Even the so-called "inventors" of ideas probably weren't the first ones to think of it! Most things I wouldn't even call "inventions" any way, it's just putting 1 and 1 together!
:)
There are lots of open source protocols that were programmed by open source programmers. "Linux" has it's own so-called "directory services" programs. Yet, when they also make a program that uses Microsoft's protocols for the completely sole purpose of allowing interoperability for use in Microsoft ecosystems, it's a bad thing?
So I guess you'd make fun of all the companies making parts for Ford cars other than Ford too huh?
p.s. Yes, that was a car analogy, so sue me.
...use the word "invent". Please oh please. Do not help spread patent idealism any more than it already is.
If Linux's algorithm is superior, how long before Microsoft implements it? I love it how since they have a lot of money, they can take things from others who aren't assholes and be assholes themselves by patenting them. Not that Linux doesn't have any patents itself and isn't backed by several large corporations, but MS just seem to always be able to be the bigger dicks.
...I have got to change my language by finding words that are actually negative. Maybe I'll start adopting British slang...
And not in a good way.
MS is a bunch of bloody gits. N' stuff.
I don't care how fast the package management system is, I just want one that can import some solid standardized and cross-distro packaging formats without the stupid "Ooops, we haven't made a package for your specific version of your specific distro yet, thus good luck compiling!" crap that you run into so often on the net. It's a headache for users and developers alike.
It's sadly almost the real perception out there about Linux for some. Windows has lots of (crappy) marketing and most of all a *tradition* of being on the PC, so many are like...Linux....WTF? :P
When they do try out Linux, if they do, they often quickly encounter the problem with the Windows platform being still easier for the most part in getting/running programs. As in, going out on the net, having the widest selection of software, and most likely being able to easily install them. When those users try to do that on Linux machines, they often can't because of the Linux Packaging Mess(tm). Even though repositories make getting quite a bit of software easy, even easier than on Windows, they still want the freedom to be able to go anywhere and install anything on the internet as well. Yet the attitude among some Linux-butts is that users don't need or shouldn't want this freedom, which is pretty sad.
Yes, Linux still has several areas it really needs to clean up to make the experience more pleasurable, but so far it has come very far.
Distros need to be seen as software bundles and nothing more, that's the way I explain it to unfamiliar users. What does this software bundle contain, what does that one contain...eventually the terms Gnome and KDE should become fairly common since "which desktop do you have?" would become common to ask unless one of the two radically overtakes the other.
This is for Linux in general, a software update that all distros should adopt, and anyone should be able to install themselves even though currently the latter isn't possible with Linux packaging being hosed.
If this is true, and somehow Google decided not to allow Android on the phone (without forking/renaming it or whatnot), for whatever reason, it's too bad they didn't pick something else to put on it like OpenMoko or whatnot. They obviously already had the drivers for it, so there wouldn't have been an issue there.
Regardless, it's sad that programs aren't being programmed to be flexible enough to support most any screen resolution. When working with phones, being able to support small resolutions should be a topic of interest.
I'd like to see a kernel that could do things like coping with new drivers without a reboot, and even find a way to "move things over" to a new kernel before shutting down the old one instead of having to reboot for that. I'm sure it's possible somehow, to be able to "hot swap" everything running on top of the old kernel to the new one, somehow. The expectations for creativity need to be raised higher. ^^
Once Linux is modularized enough so that it can load anything on-the-fly, and then even better, figure out how to hot swap itself to a new kernel without requiring a reboot even for that, THEN I will say that rebooting Linux is completely insane.
But until then, it's just mostly insane. ^^
Um, yeah it's free if you want to continue sharing the code that you use if you make changes to it. Whoopty freakin' do. Why would you want to lock it down, why would you use someone's work for free but then not share yourself? Pretty hypocritical, but you can use BSD or something instead then if that's what you want. Or, if you want to, you CAN make proprietary complimentary programs or whatnot, or not distribute the code and keep it internal which is also legal to do with the GPL.
Why would you want to use someone's work for free, but then want to lock down your contributions any way? Very hypocritical, but if that's what you want, go BSD.
It's just software and should be available for anyone to easily install. Having that selection of software come default bundled in an ISO is useful though if that's where you want your "starting point" for the software you want to be.
Yes, programs were updated, "distro" isos bundled those updates, another fun year of Linux software development indeedy. ^^
Politics and such can be interesting sorta, but the most interesting things to me are the best new software features, and great new Linux software in general. IMO, Linux software projects should be much more of a focus in the media, and less politics. New features and new software, especially that which is cross-distro so everyone can have access. (was going to say cross-platform too, but that's not the point of the Linux section) ^^
While you're right in that it's foolish not to consider the total cost, but the fact is Linux is free, so it will always be a smart long-term decision, it doesn't matter the initial costs because it WILL always be cheaper. It doesn't require more expensive hardware, it is the best long-term investment you can make. If any software is needed that doesn't exist yet, switch and it will come, especially for such a big organization switching.
It's just easier to call you a troll, or stupid, sorry.
While considering the cost of anything, you have to look at the TCO (total cost of ownership). Office = costly upgrade treadmill. OOo = supported for years & years * possibly centuries, depending, but basically some other piece of open source office software would have to really really really start kicking it's butt for support for OOo to vanish, and even if the support did vanish in, the cost of switching to some other piece of open source office software would be um zero, provided it wasn't too different that you'd need training.
Games will creep onto Linux, regardless of their license. It could happen faster but there needs to be more systems set up to pull in the money easily for new titles, and also the Linux packaging mess really needs to be finally sorted out.
Steam is one good start for Linux but there definitely needs to be more. Microsoft still has nearly complete control over Linux in average PC space any way, with basically none of the big stores carrying Linux products except the super rare online-only Walmart PC, or the Best Buy Ubuntu box. Without the ability for consumers to choose Linux and save money, this won't happen for a while.
Doesn't have the plethora of plugins that Firefox does either, and with the new versions of Firefox, it's largely caught up speed-wise but no doubt has a ways to go before it's equal in speed to Opera.