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Software Piracy At the Beijing Branch Office?
spirit_fingers writes "I'm the IT manager for a west coast design company that has a small branch office in Beijing with 5 employees, a few workstations and a couple of servers. Recently, it came to my attention that the Beijing office has been routinely installing and using pirated software on their computers — MS Office and Adobe Creative Suite, mostly. We're very buttoned up about being legal with our software here at the home office, and I consider it unprofessional and risky for our Beijing office to be engaging in this practice. When I called the local office manager on this, he shrugged and replied, 'Well, every other shop here does it.' So I was wondering if there are any IT manager Slashdotters here in the the US who may have experienced something similar with their colleagues in APAC, and how they handle a situation like this." Click the link for more of this reader's thoughts on the subject.
Up until now, the powers that be here in the States have had a relatively laissez faire attitude about what goes on at the Beijing office and our accounting department hadn't noticed that Beijing never submitted receipts for software, until I questioned them about it.
I have no doubt that "everyone else does it" in that environment. Frankly, I could care less what those guys do with their personal computers, but when it comes to company-owned gear my attitude is to stay legal no matter what anyone else is doing. And it's not like they need to do it to save money: the Beijing branch turns a tidy profit. It just seems to be an attitude so firmly ingrained in the culture over there that no one gives it a second thought.
My response (CC'd to our CFO) was to ask for copies of all receipts and serial numbers for the software they're using. and see what happens. This came down today, so I'll give them a day or two to come up with something.
Up until now, the powers that be here in the States have had a relatively laissez faire attitude about what goes on at the Beijing office and our accounting department hadn't noticed that Beijing never submitted receipts for software, until I questioned them about it.
I have no doubt that "everyone else does it" in that environment. Frankly, I could care less what those guys do with their personal computers, but when it comes to company-owned gear my attitude is to stay legal no matter what anyone else is doing. And it's not like they need to do it to save money: the Beijing branch turns a tidy profit. It just seems to be an attitude so firmly ingrained in the culture over there that no one gives it a second thought.
My response (CC'd to our CFO) was to ask for copies of all receipts and serial numbers for the software they're using. and see what happens. This came down today, so I'll give them a day or two to come up with something.
EVERYONE in China massively pirates all software.
Seriously, the company I work for has facilities in China and everything we don't specifically buy and install is pirated over there.
Why make the decision yourself?
Send an email to the directors just confirming this is what they wish to do and that they don't want you to take any action on this matter.
Then it's not really your problem anymore.
Passing the buck works both ways :)
GrpA
Enjoy science fiction? "Turing Evolved" - AI, Mecha, Androids and rail-gun battles. What more could you want?
Bit late now you've already started investigating though.
Nick
At least in Romania, where piracy is also widespread, the only companies at risk from these sorts of things are large companies owned by politically-involved people. Prosecutions for software piracy are often pretexts for some other political offense. If you're just a small design shop, I don't see how it would benefit any bureaucrat to come after you.
1) you speak to someone who has the power to set things right educting them on the legal risks and possible get a cookie. 2) You do as above but use this as a chance to push open source software, it's free and legal so why not use it? 3) you keep your mouth shut and just hope no one ever tells on the company. 4) blackmail (for money if you want to be simple 5) keep it in mind if they threaten to lay you off due to budget issues. Nothing like having something on the boss (see above) All these are pretty sound options, well save maybe blackmail for cash.
You are better off suggesting Open Office and Free PDF software; rather than fighting piracy.
I used to work at a multi-national company; and I used to be amazed at the amount of self-imposed lock-ins created by IT staff in Western branches (I am based in India). Routine inter office correspondence happens using 'advanced' features in Exchange and Word which work only on the Windows platform. I always felt plain text and HTML suffices for any and all communication requirements.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
My response (CC'd to our CFO) was to ask for copies of all receipts and serial numbers for the software they're using. and see what happens.
Can you request that from that branch only, and ask nothing from other branches? I'd think the manager would be seriously upset if you in such an open, unambiguous way declare him a pirate.
A better way, IMO, would be to set up a company-wide policy of keeping track of all software, all licenses and all computers. You need that anyway, just to know what you have, where, and what can be reused, and such. To implement that you, of course, need scans of receipts and licenses, serial numbers, codes or whatever is needed to install and use, along with some notes on what license governs the s/w (such as whether it can be moved from one box to another, etc.) This way when a computer is decommissioned you know what was on it and what can be salvaged. Tools like ManageSoft and HP CM do this, and there are other (free and not.) And when Boy Scouts of America kick the doors in you have all the receipts (that they insist upon!) to prove that you are not guilty, this time.
That assumes that your job makes you responsible for licensing compliance. If not, maybe you should not bother.
Well, I know for a fact people in china do occasionally buy software, but I work in an industry where you would be very hard pressed to pirate software.
Besides, even the Chinese don't want planes falling out of the sky, and it comes with a nice support contract.
I would ask, are they breaking any local laws and can it come back to byte you in the future.
Create a written IT policy for hardware and software. Make sure everyone knows what it is. Create a business ethics policy and ensure that components of it address using unlicensed software. Make sure that your employees are trained on these policies and that a record of training goes into their employee file. If the employees violate the policy, warn them in writing and file the notice in their HR record. If they violate the policy again, fire them. If they want to keep their job, they will fall into line and stop exposing the company to unnecessary legal risk.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Unless your job is legal compliance or you own a lot of Microsoft stock, why bother with this?
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
. . . and suggest that you ask whoever is responsible for your company's legal affairs in China to address this. I'd assume that your company has an attorney that's familiar with the law there.
Considering the answer to your question obviously lies there, I'm prone to believe that this scenario is made up to promote an "anti-piracy" agenda on this site.
It's not like they're going to be caught and prosecuted. Although if possible, why not go for a FOSS solution? Personally I do tend to try to compensate people who write cool software that I use.
Ocassionally I get emails from Chinese users asking for a serial for one of our products. I asked one if there was not an accessible store from which to purchase it. He responded, basically, yeah, there's a couple, but no one buys software in China, they just download it. So there you have it!
Sadly we're not popular enough for anyone to have made a keygen that I can find.
I'd say trying to get some people in a third-world country to pay rich American monopolists extra money is an immoral act.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
It seems rather simple: just revoke their account privs for installing new software. I'm in China now and the piracy is not only rampant, the attitude is that only suckers pay. You'll have a near impossible task to try to enforce a no piracy rule by just asking nicely and for receipts. BTW, fake receipts are just as easy to get as pirated software so accepting those as proof will just get you fooled. The only way is to check product keys.
It is admirable that you want to follow the law, but it is not your decision to make. First, decide if you are willing to go down to the mat on this issue. You may antagonize your superiors and be retaliated against. The threshold question is whether the risk of losing your job or getting your career stalled is acceptable to you. It's perfectly fine to let the matter lie if you feel your job may be at risk in this economy.
Whatever you decide to do, you should cover your ass. Write a formal memo detailing the foreign office's inability to demonstrate that its software is all legit. Call it to the attention of the Beijing folks and a US-based superior. But do not admit that the software is illegal. You do not know if it is. More to the point, it does not violate American law, which is mostly territorial. (The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act covers bribes, not copyright infringement but don't hold me to this.) Just say that you cannot prove the software is legitimate and leave it at that unless you have proof that it is illegal. File a copy of the memo away in a safe place and keep on trucking.
Should you decide to go on the warpath, make sure you have adequate backing. You do not want to be left alone, or be the problem-maker. Work up the numbers and see how much it would cost to go legit. See if you can use this as a selling point: "All our software is legit; the competitors use stolen software that may have trojans or be incompatible." Work on a consensus with your colleagues and superiors.
Lastly, be nice and tactful. Avoid being that douchebag who thinks he is better than everyone else. You cannot be effective if you are that dude. Be chill and try to make a win-win situation.
But if the company management is utterly unwilling to fix the problem, let it drop. Document your suspicions (and say that it is only a suspicion, not proof), send it to the Beijing folks, and save a copy of the memo.
A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
It snows in Australia. Some parts of Australia receive no snow, just like some parts of the US receive no snow. Some parts receive a lot. Those parts presumably like to stock up on snow shovels.
"Software is too expensive to build cheaply"
Receipts for snow shovels from your Australia office. Never mind that it doesn't snow there.
But it does.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Well, I don't. But Let's see...
* IT manager
* a US west coast design company
* a branch office in Beijing with 5 employees
Can't be that many of them... I reckon half an hour on Google and I can work out who you are...
> When I called the local office manager on this, he shrugged and replied, 'Well, every other shop here does it.' So I was wondering if there are any IT manager Slashdotters here in the the US
Oh he knows who you are already...
Good luck in your new career.
Actually it does snow in Australia.
Tell that to all the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ski_areas_and_resorts_in_Australia
Receipts for snow shovels from your Australia office. Never mind that it doesn't snow there.
So, what, they don't write software in China? Or you're arguing that since they probably won't be caught or punished, they should do whatever they want?
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Why does the little man have to be moral and upstanding when the higher ups have been so currupt and and wasteful with us.
Pirate the shit out of software... Run up your credit debt and buy luxory items with it... and when the law comes knocking, just ask congress for a bail out and a handshake. Hey it works for the rich, so why not you?
Who really cares?
Obama isnt our savior, and the shit wheel keeps on rolling folks. We havent changed shit.
Just so you know IT DOES SNOW IN AFRICA AT CHRISTMAS TIME. Can you believe Band Aid didn't know about the Atlas Mountains?
Off the subject, but I'd pull admin rights. No need to be installing the latest and greatest malware (legally obtained)
It's Adobe Creative Suite ... which includes stuff like Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign. You won't find free replacements for those. (And don't bother replying about the GIMP until it has proper CMYK support.)
Breakfast served all day!
Avoid being that douchebag who thinks he is better than everyone else
I'd say it's probably a bit late for that.
While the poster's motives might appear noble, I don't understand exactly what he's trying to achieve. A promotion, extra brownie points, getting someone in a foreign country fired, or at least severely embarrassed (and they set a lot of store on respect in Asia btw).
He's already approached the person responsible, and voiced his concerns. Just because said person didn't take the action he expected, instead of leaving it alone, he posts it on Slashdot for the world and his wife to comment on. And within a few days it'll be all indexed by Google for posterity.
To me he comes across as an anal retentive asshole who should be spending more time doing his job, rather than trying to shaft other people ... but that's just me, karma be damned.
I'm saying it's a completely irrelevant concern. And you *know* that is what I'm saying.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Forget it ever happened lest you, and not the illegally copied software, are viewed as the problem. Keep complaining, and an H1-B visa with a job description curiously like your present position may soon appear.
You may antagonize your superiors and be retaliated against. The threshold question is whether the risk of losing your job or getting your career stalled is acceptable to you. It's perfectly fine to let the matter lie if you feel your job may be at risk in this economy.
Of course, if you have evidence of such things, you can always contact the Business Software Alliance. Maybe you can get a piece of that million dollars to tide you over in your unemployment...
I have seen a patch of snow at the summit of Mount Bogong in February. I am pretty sure it survives most years.
But no, I doubt it snows this side of Australian Antarctic Territory at this time of year. Though it might snow on Heard Island.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
If you inform the office and cc'ed the boss when you know something illegal is going down, your covered. If you don't, and there is a stink they fire you and put you up as the scapegoat. The guys in the China office were following local tradition but that states-side IT manager knew and did nothing. So he is fired. But if you are the good employee in all the news reports that told the higher-ups in that-stereotypical-memo-dated-whenever that the office in China was going to fuck up the works for everyone. And they did not listen. No one is going to give you a medal but you reported what you knew via the proper channels and they don't fire you.
ACK
Let's not get carried away.
As far as I have known, APAC refers to Asia Pacific .. which includes place like NZ.
Probably best to refer to Bejing / China as China or maybe at a pinch Asia. But please not Asia Pacific.
When the fact that he has stated they are a design firm makes it pretty clear that at least one of the pirated pieces of software is Adobe Photoshop?
Nobody would actually be so naive to claim that GIMP is a legitimate and complete open source alternative for Photoshop for a design firm at this point in time? Right? (Although I obviously hope that it will be at some point in the future and GIMP currently is great to give to friends that are learning photo manipulation software for the first time)
"Everyone else does it."
If you can use it to justify female infanticide, then surely it can work for software piracy too.
It snows in Australia.
Only when Al Gore is in town.
or at least that is what Tim Blair tells me. Link
http://www.bsa.org/ It is completely anonymous.
Why would I - an open source advocate - suggest such a thing? Simple; Forcing people to use and learn from Linux (and thereby allowing Linux to learn from them in turn) is better than passively letting them steal MicroSoft products they can't afford which only improves MicroSoft's ability to leverage their installation base in illegally (in the US at least) anti-competitive practices. This will force MicroSoft to price their software at what its worth or make it worth what they charge.
Why would I claim to be a benevolent person who cares for the good of humanity with such apparently cruel intentions as forcing users to use Linux unwillingly? That answer is also simple but if you don't already know it then it is pointless for me to state it.
Your never going to get them to cooperate with you, so Instead just go along with them. Then think up some bogus excuse to find out what software is installed, and assume any software you haven't given them is pirated.
Then go to all the affected companies and buy the licences from them. Keep all the licences Locked up at the head office. Just leave the branch offices with the pirated software installed.
That way you have the moral high ground (and probably legal immunity), the companies get their money and the branch office doesn't get angry with you.
If it were 100% impossible to pirate Microsoft and Adobe products, it'd speed up their replacement with open-source software immensely.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
atleast here in india. every computer that has not been bought from dell, hp or some other international company has pirate windows and office on it. recently microsoft complained to a big company here and guess what they switched completely to ubuntu.
Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
Just to throw it out there, since you are now known as 'KNOWING' that there is such an issue. You must at least report it to someone that is higher in the chain of command than you. Save the document that you send, and cover your ass. Essentially your e-mail/letter should have your professional recommendations, and that you are leaving it in their hands.
I've had to deal with this situation more times than I care for in the last 10 years. Its a very big legal hassle for your company, and their are raids every few years. Not enough to scare the Asian work force into compliance, but its enough of a game of corporate Russian roulette that the risk just isn't worth it.
Not only are many of the Asian offices using pirated software, but are not running any antivirus software. I've routinely tracked down about 80% of all infections at my client offices to their e-mails with their overseas counterparts or from when they are traveling in Asia on business.
Also, much of the pirated versions of the software are riddled with trojans, spyware, and security holes galore. Allowing them to use that software further opens up your entire company up to a breach or leak of information.
I've also seen more than one company fold or nearly go under because one disgruntled person called in an anonymous tip that their current or former companies software was not legit.
In a corporate environment, getting the documentation and legal software is definitely the IT managers job, and an obvious C.Y.A. for anyone in the I.T. department and the company officers... Its those heads that will roll if the B.S.A. shows up with the authorities to audit you.
...he should probably just nip this in the butt...
The phrase originates in gardening: to prevent a plant flowering you "nip it in the bud". I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to bite the arse that feeds him.
Blank until
No, you were saying that there was no need for what the Chinese are pirating, just like there's no need for snow-shovels in Australia.
You're a dumb ass on both points. The Chinese need commercial software, but they don't want to pay for it. The Australians need snow-shovels, and you don't know how to construct an analogy.
I experienced a similar situation with an office in Moscow and I came to the conclusion that we can police these things, but we cannot prosecute AND execute sanctions, that is for someone else in the organisation to do.
An IT department is there to serve its customer base, protect the corporate assets and present evidence to others in the case of wrong doing. Let someone else deal with the headache of dealing with people, the machines are more than enough to cope with.
Unfortunately, there will always be software piracy. Software makers spend a lot protecting their IP. This goes back to copy protection (a total PITA). And, there will always be crackers who break the copy protection. It's an endless cycle. If software is priced properly, I believe people will pay for it regardless of the software being proprietary. Or, just make the switch to open source where you are free to use and modify the software. Cheers.
Personally, my colleagues from APAC all have licensed software, although none of our offices are in China.
You see, APAC is a very large place, with quite a few countries, some of which are mostly law abiding.
Get over it.
You real problem is that your company "IP" (designs, whatever) will show up at those every other shops,
This is by far the wisest route on the issue. I would just add that you "could" notify your legal department of it and leave it to them to handle. It is their responsbility to deal with legal issues of all kinds. For your part you just need to make a reasonable attempt to resolve the situation through your appropriate chain of command. If they arean't interested document your findings and move on.
If you bring this up and the BSA comes callign when managment doesn't act your almost garanteed to experiance some kind of retaliation.
As someone who works with Asset software i garantee the effort of cleaning up your asset's and tracking everything is well worth it. You could always pitch the cost savings of such a system by reducing waste and overpurchasing.
It is admirable that you want to follow the law, but it is not your decision to make.
Yes it is. It is everybody's decision whether or not to follow the law or make a moral choice - which of course may not be the same thing.
You may decide the law is immoral or otherwise not worth obeying in any particular case, but it will be your decision, and you cannot shift the responsibility to your superiors or anyone else.
If you know your employer or indeed anyone is breaking a law, you share the responsibility - indeed in many jurisdictions you are legally obligated to turn them in.
You may decide the law is immoral or that the consequences of trying to follow it are not worth it, that the legal punishment is too harsh or simply that since your resources are limited, you must choose where and when you use them and when you just turn blind eye or make just a modest effort because you can't do everything or because you realistically assess you cannot win - but it's always your decision, and you should make it knowingly.
Of course this will happen with APAC shops unless the APAC employees get training in US buisiness culture, and the US employees get training in Chinese buisiness culture. Bootleg software is the *least* surprise your exectutives will receive unless they get out in front of this issue.
The APAC employees need the "this is how we do things here" speech. They will think you are nuts. If you repeat the speech enough, they will get it.
I think it snowed in Tasmania in December...
With respect, gimp now is a huge improvement on what photoshop was a few years ago when those versions of photoshop were being used by design firms. Now I wouldn't recommend gimp to a professional graphics designer - that would just be like recommending they use the MS Windows platform instead of Macs - but it still does a pretty good job for a lot of stuff. It's really designed for web graphics so the escalating "gimp can't do 768bit color" argument may still be dragged out in the far future and is still utterly ridiculous even today when people are complaining it can't do 16 bits per channel. Not many people really need 16 bits for each of three colors plus 16 bits of transparency.
This level of software piracy is standard in the Solomon Islands, and I assume much of the rest of the Pacific.
And those two areas get fuck all of it and not every year.
The rest of the country gets none.
Remember, Australia is simply a hot and barren wasteland, bordered by some hot and tropical rain forest.
I hate to say this, but you sound like a paid microsoft poster. Raids? In China? Have you ever been to China? Honestly. Please don't spread FUD. Trust me. I live here.
I would worry about trojans, spyware. These are legitimate concerns.
Another concern is that a lot of development in China takes place on very old slow machines. You want to do development here? Plan on using Microsoft VCC 6.0. Want to buy a copy? Forget it. Microsoft dropped that one about a decade ago. ( actually it is amazing how these kids get so much done working little on 17 inch monitors )
Iâve seen a lot people here using pirated software that is three generations old and no older available. But, it runs 10 times as fast as the new versions, and still seems slow on the old machines here.
There was hail one Christmas Day in Victoria, does that count? :)
Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
MOD PARENT UP. Funny.
You become increasingly dependant on expensive software, as you can get freely, and if something change (like that they start to enforce copyrigth) you could not have enough margin to move away and have to buy all of that. If you can afford it, then buy it or at least be sure to always have enough budget to do that. If not, go to a free or at least cheaper alternative
Actually, while I don't know the exact situation for Romania at the moment, most places where political corruption and injustice run amok have another fun twist: making an example of some random bugger to prove that the system works. So if I were to take an uninformed bet, I'd say you're also at risk of:
- some competitor being owned by a corrupt politician or his best buddy (or just someone with money for bribes), wanting to get rid of you
- WTO or whoever leans too hard on the government, so a few guys get rounded up and hung up to dry, just to show the world that your country takes IP seriously after all
- some official is gunning for a promotion or reelection, so a few guys get rounded up and made an example of, just so he can come across as the great crime fighter
Etc.
Basically my take is that living in a corrupt system is a risk, rather than some blanket insurance against prosecution.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
It would be a terrible idea to stall purchasing proper licenses any longer.
Get them their own, legit copies of the software they use immediately - so that I can use their CS4 key when it inevitably shows up on the internet next Tuesday. This is China after all. It'd be like buying a hobo a Ferrari and expecting him not to swap it for booze.
Almost all websites these days will give you a cookie -- or several -- just for visiting, regardless what you do. :)
Unless I missed something in the not currently linked story, part of having branch offices is having local branch managers. Sticking your head in, then badgering everyone with OMG phyracey! might make it sound like you've simply got too much free time (you probably do). Good luck with that Dwight.
Quack, quack.
I am a Chinese programmer, not in Beijing, but in China anyway.
In China, most small business task the risk of using pirated software and being caught by MS,Adobe and etc.
Usually, big firms forbid employee using pirated software. They are afraid of letters from lawyers just like the American ones.
For example, they may use WPS instead of MS Office, use notepad++ instead of UltraEdit and so on.
I see a bunch of people advocating "open source"... and a bunch of people telling that the CFO or executive office asks them for whatever.... the company is profitable, the company has money.... the policy?... you need the software? go ahead and BUY IT.
The software is the tool that helps you being productive, why not just buy the licenses, close the issue, and move on?....
If your role makes you responsible for them, tell them to correct the problem by paying for software or using FOSS and tell them the deadline by which you are going to verify that it has been fixed. If the responsibility for them lies elsewhere, then send a note to your manager about how they claim to pirate software regularly and let your manager decide what's next, if anything. You're done at that point.
My philosophy is that I don't care what country a person lives in, if they work for me they follow both my rules and their local laws. Being responsible for someone else in the workplace means that sometimes you have to correct them if they make bad decisions and make sure the correction sticks.
See if you can use this as a selling point: "All our software is legit; the competitors use stolen software that may have trojans or be incompatible."
Exactly! In among the good, the bad and the ugly, here at last is a great point that's germane to the arguement, and the man's job title. Even if he is somehow not responsable for licence compliance, (which I'd somehow doubt, since he is 'I.T. manager'), he damn well is for system integrity. Anyway - whichever way this thing eventually goes wrong - he'll end up getting hit by some of the shrapnel.
The angles of security, support and compatibility are all areas where IT can legitimately address the issues of pirating software whilst neatly sidestepping the ethical/legal ones, (pass that buck on to managmeent). If your local guys are installing pirate aps on their boxen, what else is on there? Could it potentially infect your entire network?
As someone else has pointed out, you need to get your IT policy written and approved by your management first. Then I'd do a memo to the local management, pointing out the security risks of using software from 'non-approved' sources. Give him a chance to fix things before you drop the boom on him.
Agree with the local users what they need, buy the software at corporate level, install and monitor for compliance using tools mentioned in other posts. Educate users as to their role in ensuring compliance with company IT policy. Then educate them again...
I was up at Cradle Mountain one Christmas (summer), it was over 30C. And then on New Years' Day it snowed. People wander up there in shorts and T-shirts and die of exposure when a storm hits.
Your sig and your comment go together very well Sir ;) ... (tip: it's prudent to buy what you need in winter in the summer and vice versa. It can be A LOT cheaper that way)
___
No power in the 'verse can stop me
The companies I worked for thru the years here in Hong Kong never install pirate stuff as we have great timely support from the US office whenever we need. The question I have for you is:
Why is your BJ branch installing pirated office and adobe? Don't you have license for those software and whether you provide them with a link to the US servers to download? If not, do you have a process where they can "order" software from you, or have the budget to buy the software in mainland?
The ultimate question, which I suspect is why they do it, is, are they pirating photoshop because your US office is too cheap to get them what's good, and forces them to use MS paint to crop silly pictures?
This happens in a lot of places, 1 or 2 computers in a company has Acrobat, all the other ones uses Acrobat reader. Those 2 computers go on vacation, some dude needs to change some text in a PDF and notice the reader can't do it. They ended up pirating Acrobat.
Provide everyone with the software they need to get the job done. Educate them to ASK you for them if they need it but don't have it. And if you don't have it, won't buy it in time, and don't care, then just shut up (I am sorry for the bluntness). If the BJ office has access to your legit software, they won't pirate it.
I hate to break it to you, but China isn't the only country with that kind of attitude - and with the high price you pay for such poor product, it's no surprise.
It's the same story with music, over priced, poorer product, less product, and 'very' cheap to produce.
Compared to say a movie, which has more content, costs less, and costs an order of magnitude more money to produce.
When Microsoft actually require 50-100 million dollars to make the next installment of MS office, 'then' I'll consider the ludicrous price they ask for it.
Hasta lo mas curado tiene agua
Nobody would actually be so naive to claim that GIMP is a legitimate and complete open source alternative for Photoshop for a design firm at this point in time? Right?
I don't think anyone is. A few people are repeating the open source mantra but few have specifically mentioned the Gimp so far.
Perhaps they didn't read the summary properly.
Isn't there a bounty for denouncing a company for piracy? It would be nice if they fined the company and paid the snitch a good percentage :D
Nobody would actually be so naive to claim that GIMP is a legitimate and complete open source alternative for Photoshop
Nobody would be so dishonest as to pretend that GIMP doesn't cover many people's needs could they? And "legitimate"? Sounds like somebody has an agenda.
You have no idea what work they are doing in that branch office. It could be a sales or support office. Stop pretending you do know.
The software pirates YOU!
To me he comes across as an anal retentive asshole who should be spending more time doing his job
The poster may have been foolhardy bringing it to slashdot, but it is totally his job to be concerned about it. As IT manager he needs to be know about software installed on the company's computers. This applies whether it's pirated, or completely legal copies of software not approved or suitable for the company's business.
Pirated software is more likely to have viruses and malware than legitimate copies. If this branch office is either networked or in regular email contact with the rest of the company, then any IT manager would be being negligent if they weren't taking an interest in what was installed on those computers.
If the IT manager doesn't have enough influence to instruct what should be on those computers, and what should not, then they he needs to tell his superiors he will bear no responsibility for any possible damage traced back to them. If his superiors are fine with that, then so be it. But you'd then be left wondering what they want an IT Manager for.
You see, there are some people who have these crazy concepts which the rest of the world doesn't really understand. They refer to them as "morals", "honour", "integrity" ... weird names like that. I hear that some obscure dictionaries might even define them, in case you'd like to look them up. Anyway, as best as I can tell those words all generally refer to a desire to "do the right thing", regardless of personal cost or any potential reward.
Crazy, eh? It's weird to think that there may be such naive people on this planet. It's a good thing that pragmatic individuals such as you and I know better! Remember boys and girls: the number one question behind every action should be: "What's in it for ME?".
> I just wish they could be more like the letters in the "Penthouse Forum"... :)
They already are: "Dear Slashdot, I never believed your story until one night I posted an anonymous story with my name (don't worry - I omitted the consonants!) , address, place of employment, personal details, SSN, credit card numbers, mother's maiden name to Slashdot. I got fired by my employer who blamed me, arrested thanks to my tip to Microsoft, thrown into jail and there, in the strangest of places I found love with my 300 lb cell mate - and I do mean strangest of places... xo"
Information should be shared.
Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
For the US your experience may be correct, but it is extremely unlikely that the BSA with the local authorities will actually show up anywhere on this side of the Chinese wall (perhaps it is different in Hong Kong though).
With a piracy rate of around 90% here, I would assume they would like to though. But with the global economy situation, I guess there may be other priorities....
Use open source software ! This is be THE solution.
> "I'm the IT manager for a west coast design company that has
> a small branch office in Beijing with 5 employees, a few
> workstations and a couple of servers. Recently, it came to
> my attention that the Beijing office has been routinely
> installing and using pirated software on their computers --
> MS Office and Adobe Creative Suite, mostly....
If this is an actual branch office; owned by the US firm rather than a partner or other more complex arrangement, the US office is legally responsible for the activities of the Beijing office. Copyright law and, increasingly, Intellectual Property rights law, are internationally enforceable by treaty. Violations that occur in China can be taken to court in the US, and your office's assets seized, as I understand it. If MS or Adobe becomes aware of this, they can get damages from the US office, which may be heavy.
You became aware of this; you reported it to your superiors. If they choose to disregard this, consider two things: covering your own tail, and suggesting strongly that your superiors check the advisability of their decision with the company lawyers, and document this (and consider checking with your own attorney).
It has long been the rule under US law that US firms breaking US law in foreign countries "because everyone does it" can be dealt with by the DOJ. This is often applied in cases or bribery, but the precedent would also apply here.
I'm not a lawyer, so check these suggestions with one. Slashdot is not the best place for legal advice.
This kind of lazy, unethical and CYA attitude is why we are economic melt-down.
You would find a fine place in a pre-meltdown bank, broker or rating agency.
This is also why the rest of the word will NEVER trust america again.
How do you shrug over the phone? Must be a leaked version of some new telecommunications software from China.
Yes, my first response came direct from the gut, but I tend to trust those instincts.
I'm not debating whether is was his job to police those licences ... "IT Manager" can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. Neither am I committing myself to a position of legality / illegality of pirated software. It would depend on where you live and what the laws are there. For example, in Russia, it is NOT illegal to pirate software unless it is in the Russian language. They have not signed the Berne Convention, and therefore what they do is LEGAL. I'm not sure of the position in China, but good luck anyway getting the Chinese to respect anything a foreigner says, especially one from USA.
I'm saying that when he brought the matter to the attention of the appropriate person (who actually lives in China and probably has a far clearer picture of the realities there), and when he did not get the response he "expected", he took it upon himself to broadcast it to the world.
Have you actually Googled that headline ? He's up to 4 pages now on various news and tech websites as well as Slashdot. Not terribly professional, airing the companies dirty laundry in public, not to mention he's probably broken confidentialty clauses and put his own head on the line.
Naive ? You betcha he's naive. Otherwise, he'd have dont things in a more professional way.
I'm not dealing with the software piracy, but to some extents the problems we face here are similar. The point is, that even tough it's unethical and illegal, the company execs/owners may decide to proceed anyway, because as stated before, the risk of being caught is far lower that the profit gained. In this case, passing the buck is very much okay with me, especially in environment, where you have to become a pirate if you'd like to be competitive... The extra benefit in the business I work, is that the head office managers gets and extra argument, when they need to squeeze something out of the branch offices.
Not only are many of the Asian offices using pirated software, but are not running any antivirus software. I've routinely tracked down about 80% of all infections at my client offices to their e-mails with their overseas counterparts or from when they are traveling in Asia on business.
Just out of curiousity, why are your legit non-overseas clients getting infected? Especially via email if they are running antivirus software?
Also, much of the pirated versions of the software are riddled with trojans, spyware, and security holes galore. Allowing them to use that software further opens up your entire company up to a breach or leak of information.
Really? I've never heard of such a thing. Could you point to any sources for this information?
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
for a number of years, at my previous job, a number of guys went on an Australia day ski on the backside of Mt Kosiosco.
As I remember (it was a few years ago), it took something like 6 hours to hike from the nearest road, for about 20 minutes of downhill summer bliss.
I hear the drop bears hibernate in the winter.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
So... Please... don't ever speak about this subject again.
If and when color spaces come up as a subject - excuse yourself and leave the room for at least 20 minutes.
If they are still speaking about color spaces when you return - pick up your coat and go home.
Since you brought up music analogies..
It is like saying that acoustic and electric guitar are the same thing - just a guitar.
You hold it in your hand, pick around the wires a little - and music comes out.
Anyone claiming that there is any difference between the two is either uber-audio-sensitive or is just bulshitting cause it is clearly just music.
Maybe we need some double blind tests?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
You can make a policy regarding pirated software. Any machine containing pirated software will be wiped immediately, and reinstalled with legitimate software. All costs associated with this action will be immediately deducted from the office where this occurred. Software audits will be done (1-2 months) from now, again at X months, and at random intervals thereafter. If there's some way to automagically over the network audit the software, go ahead and do that on random computers on random days. Failure to comply will have some consequence.
Otherwise, you could just call up the Beijing office (assuming the piracy issue is only here), and make a deal: You front the licenses in exchange for him using the software and keys you provide (on a server or something that he can just grab and install). Reduce his budget appropriately after that to make up for fronting licenses. Problem fixed, and he looks better since he can brag to his friends how his rich American company gives him enough money to have non-pirated software.
Even the "authentic" software is often pirated in China. I mean with laser stickers sold by the largest brand name stores in China. Even if you wanted to, you might have trouble finding real software.
In my year in China, I seen thousands of computers and not single one had a real copy of windows on it. Even the computer provide to me by my Chinese government handlers for my work had a hot copy.
I promptly installed my own copy of linux. No windows machine in that environment can withstand the volume of malware attacks from every direction. There are virus in the wild in China that simply have not made it in to the virus software yet.
By the way, there are no copies of anti-virus software for sale on the streets either. In over a year, I never seen one single copy, and Chinese I talked to about it think they are silly.
So, switch to linux or live with it. Copying others is a tradition that goes back thousands of years, and it is not going to change simply by the central government outlawing. All property is public property in China.
Living in Chile
... 2.4 + 2.4 wont be 4.8 when added using Integer for number values instead of Float.
Since it WILL be 4 when using Integers, that last sentence actually makes sense - only not in the way it was supposed to.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
"Frankly, I could care less what those guys do with their personal computers,"
Means: I care about this.
It is: "I COULDN'T care less"
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Sadly, being an idealist doesn't pay the bills.
And if you're lucky, your pieces of silver will be enough to cover the fact that you'll never work again in the industry. Like it or not, no company will hire someone who's already ratted someone out - being certain you have no dirty laundry is next to impossible, so why take the risk on a fink?
It's much the same as taking someone to an employment tribunal - theoretically you have the right to kick up a stink about your rights. Practically, you're making massive career limiting maneuvers by doing so.
Time for other countries to have to pay the price as well. It is bad enough that China and India have their money fixed against the dollar, but, it is bad when those companies are stealing from other companies to keep their costs down.
By your logic I should be able to walk into a grocery store and take what I want as long as I don't open a restaurant. It would be nice if I paid for what I took, but I might want to spend that money on a dinner cruise at some point in the future.
Mr. Spirit_Fingers,
After having been warned verbally of your disruptive behaviour a number of times, it has come to my attention that you don't fit into the Chinese Culture.
As of this moment, you have been relieved of your duties. The security guard will escort you to your cubicle to gather your things. After that you will be escorted out of the building. Your severance pay will be mailed to you.
Good Bye.
(Your Boss)
My boss wanted to be cheap and decided to buy Adobe software from some company on the Internet that sold the CS2 suites for like $200. Very suspect, but he didn't think so.
When he paid for it they sent him a link to download the files and it was all in RAR pieces. One of the RAR files contained a key generator. We told him the stuff was pirated and he said if it was then it wouldn't be a problem because he has a receipt from the company. I don't think that will protect him, but hey it's his company.
Can I bum a sig?
A few years ago while I was IT Director, a Vice President of the company told me they don't pay for Microsoft Office. He said they are an imaging company so it's not hard for them to just copy Office. He was confused about why I should care. He said Bill Gates is rich enough and I should be glad for the opportunity to stick it to him.
I solved the problem. I told him I wouldn't do it. I told him if he sent me an email telling me to do it I would be more than happy though. He started to stutter and stammer and I said very upbeatly, "Just send me an email!"
I never got the email. He never mentioned it again. I switched everyone in the company to OpenOffice.org except a handful (himself included) of users who had legit licenses. The few that didn't I purchased legit copies for.
I worked for the company for another 3 years, during which the VP was eventually fired for having an extramarital affair with one of his subordinates.
Calm down, just a bit or two, there is no need to overreact.
For one thing, whether it is OK to copy software without the consent of the one who produced it is mostly a matter of taste or culture - unlike, say, murder or burglary. The whole idea of "intellectual property rights" is something that is very recent and has come into the world in the West; not to mention the whole idea of private property that underpins it, which one may be excused for thinking is alien to a Communist nation. All that aside, it has long been a part of Chinese culture and tradition to copy things - it is seen as a perfectly legitimate thing to do. You learn calligraphy or other arts by copying the masters, after all; so why not literature or software?
China is well known for using corporate (and other) espionage to further their political agenda.
Really? It isn't well-known to me, among others. You see, when you make a claim like that you need to be able to prove your case. Otherwise it merely ranks as "smug ignorance", on par with all the other prejudices - such as "all muslims are terrorists" or "Jews are money-grabbing misers".
Apart from that, you could substitute "England", "USA", "Israel" or just about any nation for China in that statement and get something equally justified. There is every reason to believe that all countries do this kind of things. Just to take one example: Isn't it true that we keep hearing about how American government agencies want to induce eg. Microsoft to install backdoors in their software? And is that not "espionage to further their political agenda"?
It is too lame to drone on with this sort of automatic demonizing of everybody you don't like or don't understand. The only two effects that is like ly to have is alienating your opponents and making you look stupid. Right now China is storming forward in the world and they are opening up; this is among many other things a great opportunity for the western governments to make friends and influence their policies on all the issues we criticize them for. And who knows, maybe some time in the future we will be glad that we have a friend in China.
It used to be "The GIMP doesn't have CMYK support".
Now you'll notice it has to be "proper" CMYK support.
The point is not that it doesn't have the features, it's that they GP doesn't WANT GIMP. And doesn't want anyone using GIMP (or at least to be able to look down on them). And definitely doesn't want people asking him if he USES "proper" CMYK support...
Why does it matter that one exists?
Nobody ever saw evidence for a black hole. And now that we have, it STILL doesn't mean we're going to get sucked into one.
The same business ethics that make it "normal" to pirate software make it normal for employees to change jobs and take your designs and business information with them.
It's a whole different ball game there.
You must not have watched a DVD lately: "Criminal copyright infringement is investigated by the FBI and carries penalties of [insert long prison sentence] or [insert whopping monetary fine], or both." There's also the international warning that Interpol will hunt you down if you live overseas.
I'd agree with you that copyright infringement should be a civil matter, but it's also a criminal offense in most countries, thanks to the lobbying efforts of the MPAA, RIAA, and related racketeer^H^H^H^H^H^H industry groups.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
You are right in that it's a culture issue, but believe you are wrong in your approach.
I realize from your point of view what they do is illegal, and immoral. What you fail to understand is that in their environment it is neither. China as a country profits massively from lack of licenses, so any laws enforcing them are most likely only for show. As for the moral aspect: they view it exactly as you view listening to an unlicensed mp3. In theory is vaguely wrong, but in practice walking on the grass is more serious.
Now, think a bit about the message you're sending. First, you don't give a damn about their culture. It's your company, your rules, your values, period.
Second, you'll be seen as a weak manager. I'm sure there are dozens of other problems more serious then this (for them) and if you insist on dealing with a (from their point of view) useless issue first, that's not smart prioritizing.
Still, you may know all this and still want to make a difference, because you consider using unlicensed software is wrong. Ok, go for it. But think twice about how you do it and the side-effects.
Don't you wish a few people like the poster worked for, I don't know, the banks and mortgage companies?
Or maybe Halliburton and other War profiteers?
Or maybe that con artist in NY who ran the (latest) Ponzi scheme. Actually was someone who reported him for irregularities and apparently was left fearing for his life. (recent news reports.)
Some people are better than just about everyone else. Too bad there aren't more of them in business and government.
why don't we keep and track IP's like on Wikipedia and catch these pro-spoof people out with a mass IP reverse rally?
I agree with you, there are far too many posts from the big companies stohere obviously trying to twist their companies agenda.
Log all text skims, IPs of spiders and reverse back to posters.
Just a thought.
Just bought a new quantum computer, but I'm uncertain how it works.
The size of the company dictates if it will raise a flag with M$. Everywhere i have went , all admins have said as a rule is dont break the 10pc policy. 10 pcs, does not raise the flag....and trust me, they have built in worms or trojans collecting all the info and sending it back to M$ hq, they know who uses all the pirated stuff. Why would Office be connectin to some server somewhere when I open powerpoint...because part of the office engine, sends info back home. This info includes software version and lets m$ know what is running on a network. If they see a network contains 100 pcs
with about 5-10 diff. sofwtares including the OS, then they come knocking, if they see its a small company of 2-4 people, and they use a few lowly apps...they dont bother...the trip costs more then they could recuperate.
Its all about the money....I know someone who has some graphic designers...they are trying to torrent a version of CS4 to use, and I told them, ok, but you might be taking a chance, he said
he didn't care....as the penalty would be to buy a legal copy at that point. Maybe pay residuals, but for him, this would only happen if he got caught.
There are some technology fixes that might help in the situation. First create an approved ghost image for the machines. Have the local staff re-image their machines off the ghost copy (at least you know what you're starting with).
You should install/use active directory with very tight group policies control--the local users should have almost no rights to change anything on the machine. As suggested, the ability for you to remote into the machine (RDC) will allow you to look around and see what's going on. Depending on your bandwidth, you might push all the connection over the VPN to your local office, this way you can aggressive block access to non-approved sites via your firewall. You should also make sure all the mail runs through your corporate server -- with tight antivirus measures installed.
A citrix or other thin client might solve the problem--no software is installed locally.
The danger with all of these solutions, is that the local office can just go out and buy a PC and whatever software they want without letting you know. (Although the VPN solution and MAC filtering would somewhat prevent this.)
If you always wanted to visit China, this might be a good excuse for an on-site visit to discuss the issues and install some of the fixes. A personal relationship with the Chinese office might make for a better situation--you could understand their needs (perhaps the company is being too tight with approved software) and they could understand the company's needs to abide by US laws on software ownership.
Hi, I work in a U.S. company. The U.S. office pirates IDE's, Office, Photoshop, Oracle (seriously), and plenty of other stuff. I'm surprised you are so worried. I don't think anyone cares about such things at all in China.
As another IT manager, I know it's my can in a sling if the license status of the software is questioned and found to be illegal or unauthorized under my watch. It's not only my reputation on the line, but my company's reputation. When I took a stand on a recent plan proposed by one of our consultants, I knew that I was putting my neck out, but I was not going to let my name be listed as a supporter and implementor of a solution that would clearly violate our contract with a service provider. [The consultant wanted us to purchase a limited number of licenses for an online SaaS solution and then share the logon information with everyone in the company when the contract states in plain English that user accounts are intened for individual users and may not be shared.]
I know many of you may shudder at the thought that a company continues to use M$ products, but that decision was already made in this case. Being an American company, comliance with licensing terms is something to which the company may well be held accountable. I think the best advice I've seen here is for this manager to document his concerns, communicate them up and down the tree, and then decide if he is comfortable working in the environment if management continues to overlook the issue.
In my situation, I expressed my concerns about the company's reputation and legal liability issues to my upline, and I offered to walk (while making it clear that staying was my preference) if my stance was incompatible with the company's views on licensing and contract law. Two weeks later, we purchased the additional licenses, and I still have a job.
I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
Then, since the COPY was created by the pirate, BSA thefts of this work must be considered theft too.
Of the pirates work.
Machines with pirated software usually have malware as well, which means you now have a corporate data security problem. We've found with our Shanghai branch that the only solution has been to make sure nobody on site has admin rights. If they want software, we install it for them. Blast your standard OS and application build onto them and then lock the machines down.
Use my Mom's argument:
"If all the other shops in China jumped off a bridge, would you?"
Serving your airship needs since 1995.
You can explain to your Beijing IT officials that their use of pirated software is putting the company into legal jeopardy. Even though this is all taking place in China, the company could be sued in the U.S. by another U.S. company, and the court case will be heard in the U.S. If that happened, the U.S. company could be fined millions of dollars.
Let them know that the company will pay for the licenses for the software they need. Help them find alternatives for the software if you aren't going to license it. Let them know that corporate policy is to only use software where you have a valid license for it.
China is sort of a special case. For the longest time, there was no concept of business enterprise or ownership. The rules for private businesses are still unclear. Courts and police do not understand these issues, and are still under the influence of the Communist Party which acts more like the Mafia rather than the Protector of the Proletariate Revolution. Many business rules and laws simply aren't followed if someone involved has connections to the Party.
However, let them know that they must follow American law and their failure to do so will affect their American counterparts. Let them know you will be happy to help, and that no one is going to get in trouble while you are working on getting this licensing issue resolved.
If they still prove uncooperative, you've pretty much done all you can. Now it is officially time to cover your ass. Document everything you are doing, and pass this on to your Corporate Compliance Office. If some rather smelly organic matter comes in contact with some nearby rotating blades, you've documented that you took all the action you could and had alerted everyone who should be alerted. With luck, the Finger 'o Blame will not fall on you.
I had this problem with our Beijing office. The top brass had the same attitude, "we're getting the job done so what".
There are over 1 billion people in China, I could and did hire a replacement in less than a months time.
You do get what you pay for though...a good salary for a skilled worker in Beijing is $10,000-$12,000/year.
It is also routine in China, to take GPL code, strip out the comments and licenses and use the code as their own.
There is just a different view of copyright in China. As copyright is an abstract creation in capitalism, is this a surprise?
Of course in the US, we have the opposite problem. Congress is going to keep extending copyright to 500 years. Most will just follow along.
It's China (town).
Escape Pod Films: Sketch Comedy and Web Series
I was in Tasmania for the first 2 weeks of December, and yes, there was occasional snowfall on Mt. Wellington.
The mainland, however, sees almost none: our chilliest city, Melbourne, has had rail lines buckling in the heat in the last week. Here in Perth, it's business as usual - it's always hot at this time of year...
Move to free and open source alternatives. Problem solved. After all they are just 5 employees with a bunch of servers and workstations, right? It shouldn't be a Shakespearean dilema...
Walk into a mall and there are no "legit" software stores. You still buy your software, there are stands and small storefronts all over the place filled with shiny boxes and jewel cases.
Short term solution is just buy legit copies of what they have installed and send it to them, so at least they have the licenses and CDkeys available, might help you get some leniency if the BSA or someone decides to come down on you. And then work to clean up the mess and get them aligned with IT / accounting standards.
As far as the cultural aspects, they will never understand... it is much more convenient to install and run things through the "pirate" distribution channels, which have usually cleaned out the annoyances of product activation and click-through EULAs and all that other crap that US software companies subject us to. Also they wouldn't stand for software with half of the additional-cost features locked out, even if they are features they'd never use.
On the other hand, this mentality makes them particularly amenable to adapting open source software, since they tend to be technically proficient enough to learn new ways of doing things, and really appreciate and expect not to have to deal with licensing hurdles and DRM. All you have really need to do is convince them that the open source software is technologically superior, which in most cases isn't too terribly difficult.
And do a budget for "legalizing".... you will see how the general manager thinks about "his" software.
NO SIG
Turn them in for a reward. It's win-win.
Send it to them.
Rat out your competitors.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Indeed,
According to the index the price of a big mac in the US: 3.57$
The price of a big mac in china: 1.83$
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Where it's OK to pirate music. But it's not good to pirate software.
And it's even worse if the piracy is being done in Asia.
Everyone does it eh?
I would quote Alfred Bester:
"In the 14th century, _everyone_ had lice."
To paraphrase a common meme (although this one actually makes sense):
1) Beijing branch pirates software
2) Report violation to company, which does nothing
3) Report violation to spa.org
4) Collect up to $1 million reward
5) Profit!
..but I run an advertising agency that uses "free replacements" (on Linux) and am today wrapping up my fourth high-quality print project of the young year and a Website upgrade. Just for your edification, GIMP's had a very good CMYK export plugin for several years now, and I'll put my print portfolio up against anyone's.
I think part of the problem is the portability of software. I have pirated copies of things because I either lost the original media, damaged it beyond repair (yes, that IS my fault), or lost the Manual that the CD key is printed on. So what happens then? Well you are basically screwed, ESPECIALLY if you lost your key. I personally find it ridiculous that I have to keep track of that in the first place.
Shut the Beijing office down in it's entirety. Tell them the company doesn't want to be associated in any way with the piracy of software.
Tell them they have three days to acquire legal copies, or you fire them and find people that play by the rules.
'Everyone does it' isn't an excuse. You know the old "If Everyone else jumped off a bridge, would you?' adage. Use it against them.
I really don't know why you're asking Slashdot about remedies to this. Seriously. Anyone with half a brain would know either to fire them or force them to get legal, or have them sued/arrested (whichever China prefers.) There's really no other way to handle this.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
1. You outsource software development to save money...
2. They use pirated software knowing they'll pirate software they developed...
3. Go to step 1.
Wasn't there something like that with financial services industry?
Something along: steal personal information in order to solicit more services to steal more personal information...
This is a management issue. Explain to management the legal problems of running pirated software, the costs of getting right, and the potential for someone who was disgruntled to turn in the company for reward money. If they still decide not to act, then enjoy the reward money. Just document everything so it's clear you tried to get eh company right with their licenses.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
Got ya. Sorry, I thought you were criticizing his objectives rather than his approach. You're right - he could certainly have handled it better. If he needed advice he could have privately asked other IT workers, or if he truly felt the need to post it here he could at least cut out some of the detail.
I don't think you're right for doing it, but I encourage you anyway.
You see, if they are forced to pay the going rate for such s/w, then they will be more likely to choose s/w that costs less, or is free, and thereby you'll be helping them to free themselves of the Microsoft shackles.
IMO, Microsoft software is only commonly used in China because it's free - eventually, when China becomes super-rich, Microsoft will be able to get China to enforce similar laws as in the US and so make substantial profit from their Microsoft addiction.
I did have a friend once tell me that she recently asked for Linux when she bought a new computer, but they said it wouldn't work on the h/w she chose. Plausible, but I'm doubtful they were telling the truth.
Anyway, in my experience, Microsoft s/w isn't often free in China. It usually costs around 10rmb (~USD1) - and that's for a whole load of Microsoft s/w, including XP and Office, and no problems with that (deliberately?) poor attempt at stopping them too (they have to try, I expect, else people could say they're doing it delibately).
Max.
The "CMYK" you use on your computer isn't likely to be the same as your printer uses. This is 100% certain if you use more than one type of printer or ink, because CMYK isn't standardized.
Even if you solve that, you still lose. Remember that your screen isn't CMYK. You thus can't know exactly what you'll be printing until you print it.
You'd be better off in RGB. That way, at least you can see what the program is using internally and you can benefit from the sanity of a 3-axis color space.
Editing in CMYK is for when you want to **feel** like a pro, even if it makes things hard. I guess that matters to some people!
You know, I could add a "CMYK mode" to The Gimp that was totally fake. It says CMYK, with UI controls translated to CMYK, but really does RGB internally. Aspiring artists would love it as long as they didn't know the truth.
I worked at a college in Beijing for a while. All of the software was pirated, both on the college computers and on the students' personal computers. Nobody saw anything wrong with this. What amused me, was that system images were regularly ghosted onto a wide range of hardware, some of which wasn't correct for the ghosted image ... and the support staff had no idea why some computers were stable and others weren't!
Microsoft's recent deals with the Chinese government have basically legitimized nation-wide piracy in that country. You can ask your Beijing office to comply, but it is highly unlikely that they will listen to you.
Failure to handle 16+ bits is actually a problem.
The CMYK nonsense is just people trying to follow the crowd and be cool.
Poor gamma handling is also a problem, but AFAIK everything (except panotools?) gets this wrong.
The humans at your Beijing office will be patriotic or will have friends who are. You may innocently expect your foreign office to be working just for you, but they see you as the foolish foreigners and definitely not in the "one of us" category.
Never mind the software. You have a huge security hole. Basically, you need to treat this office as a spy ring. Don't even consider putting them on the main corporate network.
You're up against intense family and country loyalty. Ignore this, and you will soon find your technology in use at some Chinese firm.
I agree that it isn't just commonplace in Asian countries. It is common practice everywhere, regardless of nationality.
To an IT Professional though, that doesn't make it right. Part of a the Corporate IT Job is keeping Documentation and ensuring Licensing Compliance. If you don't, then not only is your company put into jeopardy, but you are putting your job and career in jeopardy because you will be the scape-goat that will be canned when the BSA comes knocking.
(And almost all BSA investigations come from disgruntled employees...fyi)
You can't always force or restrict your users (especially those in a foreign office or upper management) into compliance. What I have routinely done, when my superiors *INSIST* on using Software that is not legally licensed, is let them...but whenever they have a problem with their computer, I don't troubleshoot, but restore a clean image sans their pirated Software. After the third time of having to reinstall their pirated Software themselves, they'll generally give up and budget for a licensed copy so that it will be included in their restore image.
The issue of Pirated vs. Licensed Software is a moral one for each individual person to decide for themselves and doesn't enter the equation at all of Corporate Policy. When you work for a Corporation, you do things in the better interests of the Corporation, despite what your personal views on whether the use of Pirated Software is justified or not. In the Corporate World, IT has to tow the legal line on this. It's not a moral issue, but a legal one, simple as that.
They're forced into this because nobody wants to keep giving them more credit.
Unfortunately you're correct that the rest of the world has been ready to work in the kitchens and make money off the people throwing their credit cards around.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
...Trying to misrepresent Australia.
Your country is as-described by the messenger you're shooting at.
It's mostly desert, with areas of tropical coastline to the north.
Snow in Australia? Sure, occasionally. But there's a reason Australia's "ski industry" is considered a joke by almost everybody else.
Yes, I know, that cuts you to the bone, since you're determined to convince everybody that "Australia leads the world, etc..."
But as a non-American who has lived in and travelled throughtout Australia, I can say with authority that the OP is correct.
While many big companys may employ people to go through these threads, I dont work for any big company... I've been an independent since I got in the field in '99... Take your flame bait else where, thanks.
Well since you are to lazy or misinformed to do your own research: Raids in Southern China Target $2 Billion Global Software - July 24, 2007 - www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=203561
No, I dont work for any large company, never have. But thanks for hoping the best for my financial future.
Yes I know many of the computers in China are older and slower and many running out dated software such as VCC and FoxPro, both which Microsoft chopped. Having an old license isnt the same as pirated software.
I'm not offering up my personal views here, but the same attention to detail I bring to each of my clients. As a consultant, if I let slip a piece of pirated software into a clients network and then they get busted, they can in turn come after me for their losses. In the business world its all about C.Y.A.
Another problem with using older software for your coders is simply that, you are using old codes... Everyone that codes knows that hooks and pointers change from .dll version to .dll version. Something that worked with Winsock32.dll 5.0.234 might not work with 6.0.12... And if you force them to downgrade that one file for your program to work, you may break five other programs.
We all know the software business does not have the same quality control as other businesses.
Are they given enough budget to purchase legal software? If yes, then the budget may have ended up in someone's pocket. If not, does the head office suggest open source solutions like OpenOffice? Either way, they have to stop such practice. However, if this "branch office" is really an outsourcing company that deals with your company on a contract basis, then it doesn't really matter how they do their work.
For example, in Russia, it is NOT illegal to pirate software unless it is in the Russian language. They have not signed the Berne Convention [...]
Russia had joined the Berne Convention in 1995, as Google gladly reports in the first result and Wikipedia confirms. You also probably haven't heard about a number of people put on trial for pirating foreign software.
I wish Microsoft would get their act together and stop producing software which is so easy to pirate.
Then we could stop making criminals of all these poor people just trying to get the most readily available and easily copied office tools around.
But it is not really in Microsoft's best interest to do this. now is it!
I work for a very rather large international company. On more than one occasion we've been sent software including a crack.txt file and even a keygen and instructed by our Chinese colleagues to just use that... Not bloody likely!
If it's five employees, buy them the damn licenses and tell them that you need to do so because of the legal environment in the US. Oh, and here's the iso's and keys if they want to make use of them now that you actually have them.
"could care less" means that you care a lot and you have room to care less strongly if you wanted to.
You dumb yanks need to say "I Couldn't care less", as in "I care so little it would be impossible for me to reduce my care factor any further".
Meanwhile, here in Esperance, we are having hot spells interspersed with stupid amounts of rain, making the farmers who are still trying to harvest increasingly annoyed...
it snowed in Canberra in December one year.
17" monitor is little? I almost fell off my chair. I used a 14" CRT for years. The laptop I had to use back then had a monochrome screen that was *maybe* 7".
Hell froze over?
No raids in China? Really... Really?
I heard a case in China: someone claimed to be a lawyer calls a software company accusing them using illegal copy of JBuilder (still remember that) even though the company was using Eclipse. (One must figure out from the company website that the software is written in Javan and therefore must be using JBuilder -- the IDE of choice for many CChinese Java programmers, because it can bought from pirate market.)
In China, everything can be faked; Even lawyers and policemen may be faked. And if someone telling you he knows some high official to solve your problem, watching out; that guy likely knows nobody.
I'm an I.T. consultant in Silicon Valley and.... ...therefore know nothing about the rest of the world and will shut up before I make a fool of myself....
Oh, too late!
It's disheartening when a country pirates software en masse when there is a huge catalogue of OSS they could take advantage of. Introduce them to [insert favourite distro here] and Gimp and Open-Office.
Muppet Show > Monty Python
... why it's so 'cheap' to offshore.
As a licensing administrator and Sysadmin for a company that has offices in several south pacific countries, i agree there is a different world of responsibilities. (they are end users, not admins)
Our aussie offices requested to have youtube unblocked as they like to watch stuff while they work, we said no, when the blocking failed they did it until the branch manager received a 7K(1.6TB) internet bill for bandwidth overage.
When i started people in our Mainland SE Asia offices were plugging in USB key's that they bought from a guy down the road for file transferring, and they were just not aware of the risks etc.. we informed them about the risk their actions pose to our clients and the company (their job) and it stopped about 90% of it.. that last 10% was disabling the usb ports on their computers, not 100% fool proof but better than nothing..(MS shop)
In regards to installing software, we just took their rights away, because the situation was rampant.. 3-4 messaging clients, multiple tool bars in browsers and scary surfing habits..
they resisited our move to lock down their workstations and the manger took offense and deleted all the files(they had access to) from their server and walked out... we replaced her with a manager from HK who supported our move(politically or ideologically not i don't know)
But do your CYA / due diligence and inform the directer, CIO etc of your company what you have discovered, and that you tried to deal with the office, as they ignored your request you have "escalated" the issue up the payscale..
Sometimes you need to speak softly and carry a big stick, othertimes you just need to know someone with a big stick
Say everyone has one of those Star Trek replicators.
Someone goes to the grocery store, and buys an item.
Said someone then puts that in his replicator and then uploads the "recipe" for that item.
Everyone else who wants to, downloads the recipe and creates a copy of that item (from their own raw materials).
I do not see how this is clearly unethical or wrong.
On one level I agree with you. But something is gnawing at me. The knowledge of how to convert something from raw ingredients into the finished good isn't in any computer. For every recipe that produces something tasting good, there are thousands of recipes to produce junk. The 1 good recipe or song isn't worth the price of 1 success -- it's worth:
the price of (price of a success) * (cost of all successes)/(cost of all failures**).
Now cost of all failures also includes all the time wasted by unsuccessful artists -- not just the failures produced by the successful artist.
So the price to produce 1 'great recipe' might include 10's of thousands of dollars of "overhead". That artist will never be able to sell their one song for ... say $200,000. But they might get 50 cents from 400,000 people. That's the essence of why he needs to sell 400,000 copies. Then you add in distribution, advertising...all the overhead and it gets blown into the stratosphere -- and certainly, there is more than a little profit taking by the large corporations who buy the artists (but that's a different problem related to greed and corporate excess). Despite the overhead issue -- it doesn't negate the basic model -- the artist needs to sell 400,000 copies of their recipe in order to 'break even' -- else, it isn't worth them to be a cook, sweating away over bad recipes. They might as well go produce wooden widgets that can't be easily reproduced because they can't be digitally copied.
Now ideally, after the artist sells their 400,000 copies, the recipe goes into the public domain -- and THEN everyone can put it in their replicators and use it to their hearts' content -- the entire society is enriched. The part of "works moving into the public domain" is currently *broken*. This leads to some class of people saying "the heck with this system. It's never benefiting the common good. Let's ignore the bogus fat-cat enrichment system and benefit ourselves right now".
Massive piracy, is the other side of the Mickey-Mouse Copyright Perpetual Extension system. If copyright and patent terms were considered 'reasonable' by the average person, then the average person wouldn't be so tempted by piracy.
The downside of piracy is that people who produce intangible works...the poets, artists, and programmers of the world -- will be pauper's in their own time and only a few master's will find their work valued -- probably after they are dead. As our general 'minimum wage' increases, artists and such, in the society will find themselves unable to exist .... or make subsistence at the minimum wage. So...they will tend toward extinction. The question becomes -- do we value the output of those paid for 'intellectual' or 'creative' output? That's where the system comes into play. The problem is that the compensation to the 'authors' or artists is now dwarfed by the fat-cats distributing profits to stockholders and the CEO-types...
That's going to take some major revising of our capitalist system that I doubt even Obama can perform.
Not for web pages, anything that is going to be shown only on a monitor or printed on the not paticularly good colour printers in an office. We don't all work in publishing.
Real graphics designers should feel free to correct me on those points.
And you lose your job. Good luck finding the next job!
"Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?" --Homer Simpson
You are awash in a sea of fiercely stated opinions. Obvious exits are: 'File->Quit', 'Reply', and 'Page Down'.
If the original copy is expensive everybody will prefer to buy the pirated copy.
I'd like to buy homeland for our 10 million people. http://twitter.com/mahadiga
It matters for web pages.
If you have 256 levels (16 million colors), then brighten the image, you end up with less than 256 levels. This is undesirable.
If you work with the 65536 levels that many digital cameras provide and do likewise, you get far more than 256 levels. (less than 65536 of course) When you then save your image for a web page, you get the full 256 levels.