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Debian For Android Installer Released
dooberrymctavish writes "You can now download an installer and bootloader for getting Debian running on your Android (G1 at the moment) device; the whole install process will take you about 10 minutes, and leaves you with access to the full plethora of programs available in Debian and lets you continue using your phone as it was intended to be: as an Android device with all the capabilities thereof. Here's a look at it running.
That would be a reason to buy this phone....
Must resist purchase of new geek toy...
Is it just a chrooted Debian installation? I'm assuming so, seeing as Android's just a bunch of Java progs running on a small custom Linux distro.
^The same sort of people who take things apart to see how they work, and tinker with things because they actually enjoy doing so.
Don't worry, your iPhone will not wink out of existance because somebody with different preferences buys a different phone, or prefers cars without the hoods welded shut.
Just shows Debian booting. What can you do with it?
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
it can be a serious turn off. But then, this is still great news. Question is, what is the meaning of android capabilities? Does it still mean I am forced to use Gmail?
Yeah...
Can I buy an unlocked iPhone for a reasonable price, yet? How about deals with networks other than AT&T?
Can I install custom software yet? Oh, I have to jailbreak it. That makes sens... Oh wait, you're asking me to crack my own phone.
Alright, I'll develop an iPhone app. I'll write it in Python, or maybe Erlang, download updates on the fly... Not allowed, you say? I wonder why? Only Apple knows...
Maybe I'll make it run in the background, so I can have something play music while users do something else... Nope, not allowed. When the user taps away from my app, I have to shut down, completely, so as not to drain the battery. That's not just a good best practice, it's actually enforced by Apple.
Yes, it's prettier. Yes, there are things it does better. But as long as Apple keeps such a stranglehold around what's available and what isn't, the iPhone will fall behind. There is no question of that -- there will be killer apps written for Android, even for Windows Mobile, which cannot be ported to the iPhone because of Apple's restrictions.
Why would you want a system so closed, inflexible, and proprietary that it makes Windows look good?
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
I'm tempted to root my phone to use this trick. It almost makes me wish I bought the developer handset.
If there's anything more important than my ego around here, I want it caught and shot immediately.
Oh, please don't feed the trolls. Responding to people like this only gives them what they want: to start trouble.
Please, let's all just ignore this person and this topic. Wouldn't it be more fun to talk about how nice it would be to be able to install Debian on your phone?
All the video shows is debootstrap being run in a terminal on, presumably, a G1 phone.
Since debootstrap is a shell script that builds a debian chroot and is designed to be run on any linux system, that is not a significant accomplishment, is it?
That's the "installer" portion. The "bootloader" portion would appear to consist of something like:
#!/bin/sh /debian
chroot
Anyway, it's nice to see interest in running Debian on these devices, I guess..
see shy jo
Welcome to the internet! The person you replied to is called a 'troll' and what they do is post messages known to get replies (like yours) to websites like /..
What you replied to with your witty creative comment is actually one of the older messages they have saved in their little notepad files.
Here is the actual code from the bootdeb script.
I particularly like how init is "started" before the kernel is "booted". The "automounter" is also a nice touch. It's also impressive how the kernel boots in exactly 1 second every time.
echo "Custom Linux Pseudo Bootstrapper V1.0 - by Mark Walker"
echo "WEB: http://www.androidfanatic.com/"
echo "EML: admin@androidfanatic.com"
echo " "
sleep 1
echo "Starting init process"
sleep 1
echo "INIT: Debian booting....."
sleep 1
echo "Running Linux Kernel"
sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1
sleep 1
echo "AutoMounter started"
sleep 1
echo "Type EXIT to end session"
echo "Make sure you do a proper EXIT for a clean kill of Debian!"
echo " "
chroot $mnt /bin/bash
On the other hand, my prediction re debootstrap was wrong. Rather than just use the shell script as designed, the creator of this thing ships an entire pre-built debian system that's chrooted into. Amusingly, this includes a root/.bash_history showing every command he ran while setting it up. (It also includes 104 mb of cached debs in /var, etc.)
Anyway, very amusing.
see shy jo
I visit /. every day and have done so for about a year now and have never seen so much "trolling" on one post. Anyway, Debian on the G1 is pretty cool! It just shows how flexible and amazing open source software can be!
Man you almost had it. Insightful +5, then you went and mentioned Windows Mobile.. ugg..
Bringing liberty to the masses. - http://freetalklive.com/
2009: The year of Terminal on the cell phone.
Take that iPhone!
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Article mentions Android is based on Debian, so basically what has happened is apt-get was installed (and all required software) which then gives access to the entire debain ARM library.
Is this correct?
It's sad the number of responses saying this is a boot screen... maybe if you don't actually look at it, and just go: 'oh pretty text!'
I think (ergo sum) that you really meant
Why Think? We think better! Let us do the thinking for you (for a 'small' fee)
--frank[at]unternet.org
Don't worry, your iPhone will not wink out of existance because somebody with different preferences buys a different phone, or prefers cars without the hoods welded shut.
hehe - indeed. I have a Mac laptop, a Linux workstation, and a Linux media center at home. Each is brilliant for its intended purpose. Viva La Difference!
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You can now download an installer and bootloader for getting Debian running on your Android
Well I've tried, you insensitive clod, but he keeps running away, and as it has robotic legs it's faster than me!
My first program:
Hell Segmentation fault
I have the phone, but I am not so sure I am willing to do this...
"My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
Except it's true.
Yes, Windows Mobile sucks. But, it does one thing Apple doesn't:
You are allowed, and encouraged, to develop and use third-party apps, which have no relationship to Microsoft.
You can download them from the Internet. You can install them via sync, or wifi. I don't actually know you can grab them with wifi, but that doesn't matter, because you could write a program that does that -- write your own package manager, even! -- and no one will stop you.
On the iPhone, you distribute them through Apple, through the App Store, and you buy them through the App Store. Anything else is likely to void your warranty, maybe even get you sued.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Aside from the cool geek factor, why load Debian?
You answered your own question there. Do you really need a better answer?
So much for the iPhone's alleged superiority as the supreme geek toy.
The android standards were written so you wouldn't install package managers & run native programs. You're supposed to be running Java Xlets. What's wrong with you people?
Well, you boot Android, get Debian on it and the video we're treated to is... ... running apt-get to drag down packages.
Am I the only one who thinks this is totally pointless?
Why would you want a system so closed, inflexible, and proprietary that it makes Windows look good?
With all the thrashing /. has given Vista, we Microsoft fanbois will take what we can get. ;)
Boot Windows, Linux, and ESX over the network for free.
Why does the article/ video say "use Debian on Android"? If you install Debian you are no longer using Android.
I definitely plan to order one of these phones next month (I don't have T-Mobile in my area, so I need to buy the Developer Edition with the snazzy graphics on the back)
I now need to stop procrastinating and (vastly) improve my Java skills and start writing some Android apps.
Aside from the cool geek factor, why load Debian? It's a distro optimized for servers.
Who told you that? My experience is that Debian's strength is in its versatility, rather than a focus on servers. Thats why it is seen in using for anything from the firmware-based Linksys NSLU2 to being the base of some of the most popular desktop distros of the past few years, suck as Knoppix and Ubuntu.
suck as Knoppix and Ubuntu.
Hey now, they're not so bad...
just to answer the "don't know if you can grab them with wifi" - absolutely. All but the most ancient of WM devices that have WiFi or a cellular chip will have an internet browser - typically IE, but newer models come with Opera. Just browse to the website that hosts the .CAB or .EXE (the former is the more common - the latter you have to make sure it's not a windows installer but e.g. a pocketpc installer.. yes, that's a bit of a hassle, yes, the App(le) Store prevents such hassles), save the file, and launch it.. whether you're doing so over a virtual network (via a USB cable, for example), wifi, cellular chip, bluetooth or heck - IRda modem.. it doesn't care.. once the file's on the machine (by any means), you can run it.
I think the quality of the OS is far more important than that and I hate WM6. I have had many WM5-6 devices and don't like Professional or any other version of any of them I've used. Simply horrid. (I have to use it on my work phones.)
(%i1) factor(777353);
(%o1) 777353
I will never buy any phone until I can have my own custom app run in the background that can do things like use the GPS data to determine whether to screen calls, record and text-to-speech them and then email them to me, or call a fax number and leave a fax with the call information.
...but does it run Linux?
Now my brain is leaving my head, having read that. Please don't go brain - I promise I won't read it again.
Sounds like you know a fair bit about developing for Windows Mobile. I'm curious - how easy / common is it to develop for the Windows Mobile platform from a non-Windows platform?
If it is difficult, then I wonder about this statement:
You are allowed, and encouraged, to develop and use third-party apps, which have no relationship to Microsoft.
Is it valid to say that there is no relationship between those third party apps and Microsoft if one must purchase Microsoft products to develop third party applications?
Also, do you know if the license for the developer kit places any limitations on the software that you develop or component libraries that you can use?
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Actually, I don't know much about Windows Mobile, other than that development for it was more like development for a desktop OS. That is, you got some APIs, but ultimately, you could compile actually native code (unlike Android), and do pretty much anything within the constraints of the OS, possibly even hack the OS a bit (unlike the iPhone -- no farts until recently).
I do know, for example, that there was some sort of VLC port, among others.
So, I don't actually know, and I haven't tried. But I suspect that you wouldn't need anything more than you need to develop for a desktop OS. For practical reasons, you might have to buy a Microsoft product, just as you probably should buy Windows and some form of Visual Studio to develop Windows apps. But I think, like Windows apps, what you build with that SDK is pretty much up to you.
Keep in mind, ultimately, it could lead to just what you're describing -- a sort of mobile MinGW, and cross-compile from Linux. Or, ports of interpreted languages -- I think they had Python already -- or something like Java, or just libraries like wxwidgets, Qt, etc, and you could develop on any OS and port relatively easily.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Point is, you can work around the OS.
I'm not sure how easy it is on WM, but consider if it was desktop Windows vs the iPhone OS. Worst case, just replace explorer.exe with your own shell, use a layer like Cygwin or Services for Unix, and it's hard to tell it's actually Windows under there.
On the other hand, if you like the iPhone, it's great, but if you don't, or you want to change it in some interesting way, you're pretty much boned.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
For the record, this is just a shell script that runs the commands listed here: http://www.saurik.com/id/10. AndroidFanatics generally doesn't reference it's sources. At least this time they (arguably) provided some value in packaging, but that usually isn't the case. The Android Market Browser it has, for example, is just a republished download of http://www.cyrket.com/. It used to be an iframe, but when I told them I wasn't okay with that they decided to just wget the contents. They don't even have the intelligence/decency to reformat it at all, making the entire thing quite flagrant. Frown pants.
DebiAndroid?
The problem with (originally) Android-based devices is that their power management is done in a completely non-standard way. It's not that it would not be open, but passing tokenized dead mice through a wormhole is quite a pain. Will there be enough community interest to actually ever put the power management to a level that can be used by non-Android distributions?
This is where the Neo FreeRunner shines - not only you can install Debian (or Gentoo) on the device, but you can actually use it as your daily phone / GPS device / music player to a similar extent you can use the Openmoko distribution.
It's not just, or it should not just be a "fun hack" to install Debian on your phone - the point should be that you can use your phone with Debian, similar to what you done on your desktop/laptop computer. Of course, there should not be any need to hack the phone before being able to install own programs on it, but there is already the Android dev phone available so that's not the problem with Google phones.
Reminds me of the Zaurus
http://www.pocketworkstation.org/
It's not booting into anything. It was apt installing stuff.
Can I install custom software yet? Oh, I have to jailbreak it. That makes sens... Oh wait, you're asking me to crack my own phone.
well, installing Debian on G1 is not really any different from jailbreaking iPhone. You are cracking/hacking your own G1 to install Debian on it. So your point is moot here.
Alright, I'll develop an iPhone app. I'll write it in Python, or maybe Erlang, download updates on the fly... Not allowed, [wikileaks.org] you say? I wonder why? Only Apple knows... Maybe I'll make it run in the background, so I can have something play music while users do something else... Nope, not allowed. When the user taps away from my app, I have to shut down, completely, so as not to drain the battery. That's not just a good best practice, it's actually enforced by Apple.
if you like to do FOSS, why do you even want to write apps for Apple Store? You can write your own apps for iPhone, ignore those sucky "guideline/rules", and share your apps with others independent of Apple Store. You shouldn't go to the Apple Store unless you want to make money out of it, which means it's no longer FOSS. If you really want some example of closed mobile system, you should look at Moto Linux. There's no official way to install ANY third party native programs on Moto Linux, the only way to install other native programs on Moto Linux is to crack/hack your own phone and do it yourself, and there's no SDK. At least Apple did provide a SDK for native program developmenet, and an offical (albeit severe limited) channel of letting you to install some third party programs to iPhone. And if you are unhappy about the official way, you can always crack/hack it and do it your own way like with Moto Linux. So Apple's iPhone is at least better than those Moto Linux phones. There is at least an official way, and an official SDK for easier development (which you can use to create programs not adhering to Apple's guideline/rules, as long as you don't plan to sell them on Apple Store).
Are you sure about that? Could you provide a link to some example iPhone applications that anybody can download and run without using the App Store?
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
Ok, is anyone already porting maemo into G1? Debian based it being.
All I can say is that /. has gone to shit, there are 10 trolls on every topic with fucking walls of text.I know I shouldn't feed the troll but the situation is out of control and I really liked this site.
Oh, I have to jailbreak it. That makes sense... Oh wait, you're asking me to crack my own phone.
To be fair, TFA mentions that in order to run Debian on Android, you have to use modded firmware to gain root access (it was removed by default by an update a little while ago). Probably won't brick the device, but there are no guarantees.
Maybe I'll make it run in the background, so I can have something play music while users do something else... Nope, not allowed.
What I've read suggests that the iPhone will continue iPod playback in the background, but not other apps. Never used one, though.
I'm more than happy with my Android G1 in this respect, because I can run things like the StreamFurious Shoutcast client in the background while surfing or reading eBooks.
Information wants to be beer.
Try changing your threshold to zero or higher. Then you won't see the trolls.
If the govt becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law, it invites man to become his own law, it invites anarchy
I would have gone for "Think you're different? Think you're better? Don't think: buy Apple."
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
It just comes down to goals.
You want to buy an appliance that makes phone calls, browses the web, and checks your mail? The iPhone is a valid choice.
You want to dick with the thing and geek out? It's not as good a choice... though to be honest jail breaking isn't such an ordeal.
In any event, whatever happened to shades of gray? You don't have to either like or dislike the iPhone - you can think it's cool and not for you, for instance. That's my opinion. I like my Sony Eriksson flip phone, hobbled though it may be.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Google: iphone ad hock deploy
A common use is for beta testers. As an individual dev, I can sign up 100 devices. I expect for $200 I could be an enterprise dev with unlimited deploy.
But it is time consuming, I have to get a cert from Apple using the device id and package an App for the specific device. Certainly not worth $10 of my time. With the App Store, I can sell $0.99 apps and make money.
I wound up poking through the Windows Mobile development stuff yesterday a bit after I posted. It looks like it would be roughly as easy to write for Windows Mobile from not Windows as it would be to write native code for Android. IE: there is no official support but also no significant barrier to prevent you from doing it. At least that is the look on the surface.
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Finally! But how to get the Ctrl, Esc and Function keys???
It is not immoral to create the human species - with or without ceremony, Samuel Clemens.
"how easy / common is it to develop for the Windows Mobile platform from a non-Windows platform?"
Probably not very. But Visual Studio Express is free, and so is Windows itself for the 99.99% of (non-Mac) users who buy normal PCs. WM runs .Net Compact Framework apps, so in theory the Mono folks should be able to build WM executables if they try. Sure beats having to buy an Apple computer for USD $599 or more in order to run the "free" iPhone SDK.
"Is it valid to say that there is no relationship between those third party apps and Microsoft if one must purchase Microsoft products to develop third party applications?"
Yes, it is. Microsoft doesn't ask for even a fraction of a penny for any Windows Mobile app; Apple demands a 30% cut. Microsoft doesn't limit what you can run at all (it uses code-signing for protection, but lets end users decide whose signatures to trust, and lets them run unsigned code if they wish); Apple reviews every iPhone/iPod Touch app, rejects what they don't like, and has a remote kill switch so they can retroactively stop you from using anything they'd already approved.
"Also, do you know if the license for the developer kit places any limitations on the software that you develop or component libraries that you can use?"
I don't recall seeing anything like that in the Visual Studio EULA or EULAs for any other WM-related SDKs that I've downloaded for free (as in beer).
I know about the ad hoc deployment but as you said it's limited to 100 devices! AFAIK, there is no way (without jailbreaking) to distribute an iPhone app to everyone without using the app store.
I don't think that is true.
As I mentioned, if it were possible to distribute iPhone apps without Apple's agreement then there would be at least a few you can download from the web and run on your own phone. But none exist.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
Can I buy an unlocked iPhone for a reasonable price, yet?
Yes.
How about deals with networks other than AT&T?
Yes. AT&T is the only question mark. I'm currently using my Android phone on AT&T.
Can I install custom software yet?
Have been able to since day one. It's never been an issue; unlike the issues surrounding the iPhone.
Maybe I'll make it run in the background, so I can have something play music while users do something else... Nope, not allowed.
That's only an issue for iPhones. Creating background services on Android is trivial. Of course, constantly running stuff in the background is going to destroy your battery life.
Yes, it's prettier.
That's a matter of opinion. I actually like my android phone.
There is no question of that -- there will be killer apps written for Android, even for Windows Mobile, which cannot be ported to the iPhone because of Apple's restrictions.
This is already true. Some very cool applications which are available free are impossible on the iPhone.
With some half dozen or more Android phones looming just over the horizon from various carriers and even Garmin, a new comer to phones (first link I found) bringing an Android phone to market, options will be aplenty. Already whole lines of phones are being developed specifically to target the Android platform.
To add insult to injury, the G1 already has superior hardware but sadly, is held back waiting for an Android software update. This of course places Android owners in a superior position whereby an iPhone owner's only recourse is to purchase a whole new phone to obtain hardware parity.
This looks very cool and has made me a lot more interested in rooting my G1 now that it's very simple to do so. However, this gives me a couple of concerns that I don't find easily-answered and I'm sure others reading this article are probably wondering, too.
-You root your phone, you install the modded firmware...and then at a later date you decide you no longer want any of this and want to go back to a "normal" set of firmware and functionality for your G1. Once you root it and run the altered firmware are you able to do this? If so, anyone got a link for how you'd go about resetting the phone to its factory state (I'm assuming modded firmware would make it difficult to do the standard way in Settings).
-What about interaction with your calling plan? If it's not an official firmware, am I still going to be able to use things like MyFaves and unlimited text 'cause I've got a real low regular minute plan (hence the reason for getting the MyFaves and unlimited data/text).
-If you brick your phone is there an easy way to unbrick it? Kinda like a hard reset?
Please forgive my n00bishness on this, but I figure they're important questions.
"Just a fox, a whisper."
That is, you got some APIs, but ultimately, you could compile actually native code (unlike Android)
Significant correction here. You CAN compile native code for android. I've done it. It's not that bad. It's just not officially supported - yet strangely enough, JNI is officially supported and it seems there is also a backdoor (unsupported) into the VM for fast native code calls.
The good and the bad is, Android is a platform which is not tethered to a specific CPU architecture. Thusly applications written to the VM will run on all systems to which Android is supported. Applications which use native code may not run on these platforms without a platform specific recompile and release.
To be fair, TFA mentions that in order to run Debian on Android, you have to use modded firmware to gain root access
Granted. But if you're willing to develop inside Google's VM, there are no restrictions there. I'm guessing there will be JRuby and Jython ports, too.
What I've read suggests that the iPhone will continue iPod playback in the background, but not other apps.
That fits what I've heard, which is basically that these rules are for you, not for Apple. After all, a web browser does download and interpret code on the fly (Javascript), but you're not allowed to do that, so Safari will be its only browser.
So, you can play iTunes in the background, but probably not Pandora.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Let's see...
The limitation of the iPhone is that you have to crack it to distribute any app that you haven't put through the App Store. Furthermore, there are rules like not being allowed to run interpreted languages.
Android, if you're willing to stay within that VM, you can do pretty much whatever you want. And the reason for staying within the VM is more portability, I think, than anything else...
As an example, if I were to port Python/Jython, or Ruby/JRuby, to Google's VM, I could write Python or Ruby apps. It might be easier to recompile those for the iPhone, but then every user would have to jailbreak their iPhone, because Apple forbids interpreted languages.
You can write your own apps for iPhone, ignore those sucky "guideline/rules", and share your apps with others independent of Apple Store.
Right, you just have to force all your users to jailbreak it.
You shouldn't go to the Apple Store unless you want to make money out of it, which means it's no longer FOSS.
You don't know what FOSS is. Hint: It's got nothing to do with money.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
You can install the .NET compact framework on WM, so you should theoretically be able to compile them to CLI, and run the executable on a WM device without problem. Even without official support for the Compact Framework from Mono, it's just a subset of the complete .NET Framework -- you all you'd have to do is only call those portions that are available to the CF.
As for the graphical portion, I'm not exactly sure. I am sure you could create your forms in code, the old fashioned way, but I'm not sure if there is any WYSISWG support for WM apps outside of Visual Studio.
"That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
You don't know what FOSS is. Hint: It's got nothing to do with money.
FREE Open Source software? lol...
I say again: You have no idea what you're talking about. Free as in speech, not beer. Libre, not gratis.
Go read.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
You also won't see anything that actually says anything. As Aristotle said, if you let the idiots with mod points choose your reading matter for you, you might as well cut your ears off. OSLT.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
whoosh