I can see a lot of other comments about how easy this is to bypass being ok...
But let me make sure I am reading this right, because I don't think I am.
Are you suggesting we shouldn't do this out of kindness, respect or decency towards the scum that is sexual predators?
I would disagree because its a waste of money and easy to get around, but due to the nature of this kind of thing... We'll I assume (fairly safely) I'll never be on "that list", but if someone came to me and told me that I'd be on that list in 10 years, I'd still want measures like that around, though if possible, much harder to bypass; say deny them unsupervised computer access.
well, it's an imperfect solution, because APT did exactly that kind of thing to me two years ago. I couldn't grab the dependancies at times, or it could grab them but couldn't handle some conflict.
It's been alleviated I'll grant you, but solved, it is not.
[stew] Parking > spot 3... Dependancy Error: Parking Spot 3 depends on sedan-model cars in spot 2 and 4. Spot 4
"DAMNIT! Spot 3 is the spot that my car is supposed to go into, I'll get ticketed if it is elswhere."
[stan comes along and tries to access the attendant next to stew] Parking > spot 5... Dependancy Error: Parking spot 5 depends on minivan-model cars in spot 4 and 6 "Huh? WTF?"
Stew: "Whats up?" Stan: "It won't let me put the car in my spot unless there's a minivan in spot 4 and 6." Stew: "That's annoying... WAIT... I can't park unless there is a sedan in spot 4!" Stan: "So... we can't park at the same time?" Stew: "Apparantly not. Unless we want to go to the wrong spot and get tickets. Who set this crap up?"
[a few minutes later, steve, a sedan driver pulls up to the next attendant..." Parking > Spot 4 Dependancy Error: Spot 4 requires vehicles in spots 3 and 5. Spot 4 cannot hold minivan or sedan. "What the hell!? I can't park in my own spot with my own car?"
Stan: "Not only that, but spots 3 and 5 cant be filled at the same time due to these stupid dependancies." Stew: "Who said we should use Linux on these things again?"
actually, most scientific research goes to the papers before the financers. Unless the scientific research is within a corporation and not acadamia. It protects them from a lot of what you mentioned.
Admittedly they *may* loose repeat funding from certain biased sources, but there are other sources, holding the opposite oppinion that would likely pick up the slack.
Yes, but did the provide it on a "if your results match this, you get money" basis, otherwise you don't?
Science can be financially motivated, it's hard to keep it from being so, since it's run by people who need to live in a world where you need finance. However the answers should not be financially motivated
Yeah, that is an issue unfortunately. Intel is a good choice for you to look at as the do provide Linux drivers for their NICs. nVidia and ATI are nice for providing graphics drivers as well.
But that's another reason I chose FreeBSD. They have a nice hardware compatability list. Barring something really weird (i.e. Toshiba's tweaked bus structure, which screws up in Linux as well), if it's there, it'll work. Not only that, but they usually have good instructions on how to get it working, with useful examples. Even if it's not on the list, it might still work, though you will want to do a bit of external and newsgroup research before buying.
And very little of what the person I replied to mentioned fell into that category. Most of the stuff would be a challange, and a big one, but not one that couldn't be dealt with.
Not to mention, unlike what was in your example, none of it was illegal either. At least, not until recently. And even then, only a small part of it (the exchange stuff not being properly documented).
My problem is that every pice of "official" documentation for CF that I read suggested that was a good idea, and gave *NO* warnings of the problems... Just suggested it was all you'd ever need for data verification.
I just can't trust the security of the internals of a program where they suggest users do taht for security... It makes me wonder how the rest works...
and as I said to several others, I was referring to the person I replied to and not the TFA. The author of TFA did deal with it at his end, the same way several others here dealt with it.
well, similar. Most moved to Windows or MacOS... I moved to FreeBSD...
He delt with the problem at his end with Linux the same way I did: use something else. I understand that, and it's a perfectly acceptable solution (I went a slightly different direction though, for different reasons).
But the person I was replying to was complaining about the situation in developerland instead of userland, and while the two intersect, they are a bit different.
So, to sum up your post: "You are experiencing problems similar to many other to-Linux migrators. Don't worry, the problem isn't you or Linux, it's everyone else - all the hardware manufacturers and software vendors."
Sorry, blaming problems on everyone but us doesn't do anything except prevent the problems from being solved (and it can cause even more problems). Other groups have adapted to this kind of mentality, even within the Linux borders. Passing the buck, like this post implicitly suggest isn't a good idea for getting things working. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see those solutions you mentioned also, but to say the problem is all on the other side is not only wrong, it's counter productive. Linux could use more developers (most OSS projects could), and Linux could cooperative developers, a bit of competition is good to encourage improvment, but too much competition (dozes of projects that do more or less the same thing for example) can spread the resources too thin to get anything done in a timely manner.
Are things as easy as they could be? No Are things as easy as they should be? No Will bitching and moaning about it, or logical reasoning change it? Hasn't yet, so most likely: No. Answer: Deal with the problem at your end.
Seriously, if they want untrained lemming to make the decision on use, rather than trained professionals, then I suspect the product is not good quality. And the commercials, as stated, target the untrained and unknowing, not the doctors and professionals
the probelm his, the exploiters/hackers will do this kind of thing even if told not to. Makes me think of the "_required" input names in cold-fusion forms *shudder*.
No, what we need is browsers that will let us force-mute things. What needs this more than anything else? Flash Player., since I think most browser has a "no audio" option anyway.
I wouldn't mind seeing a "core team" for Linux as well. All my problems I've had on Linux can be attributed to the very non-standard nature of the OS, with so many things going in so many different directions, making it often a challange to put the pieces together properly.
It's the reason I use FreeBSD - the BSD teams tend to be a bit more focused on gettinging everything there working together nicely, rather than adding everything they can with reckless abandon. Pro: Things just work (as long as you check the hardware compatability database before buying your hardware). Cons: The latest and greatest isn't always available, and the administrative tools usually don't have quite the eye-candy.
While I agree with you on the effects on the Microsoft side of the house, I don't agree with the Hardware Manufacturer side of the house. Simply put: Microsoft making DRMed driver modules does not affect an hardware manufacturers at all in regards to wanting to open-source their drivers.
Ex: ATi and nVidia cannot open source their drivers because of legal issues with patents and trademarks held by [if I remember correctly] SGI and possibly several others, whose technologies allow the drivers to work.
What this will do is increase the cost of driver development in the Windows side, a market the manufacturers can neither drop nor ignore. Likewise, this could also decrease the extra cash flow into the company, and potentially diminish the resources available for the in-house drivers designed for Linux/BSD. So this could potentially hurt Linux/BSD in many ways as well. It just depends on how profitable making those drivers available is.
I never said they didn't perform a valid and important purpose, however they often go too far...
Marketing: Good: Sell a good product to those who need/want it Evil: trying to get money from anyone regardless of need/want, trying to encourage methods of forcing people to pay extra money for minimal return, trying sell something useless and then get people to buy the functional parts as extras, etc.
Legal: Good: Protecting a company from predatory practices of others Evil: enacting such predatory practices against anyone they can
Accounting: Good: Making product production cost efficient whithout degrading quality Evil: Forcing corner-cutting to the point where a quality product can no longer be produced.
Because these areas are typically "about the money" with little other concern, they often go towards the "evil" options, since they are appear more lucrative (and typically are in short to medium term).
actually, I use "evil" in respect to apple all the time. The problem is, they had been so evil for so long, it/did/ hurt them, so nobody cares about them anymore. They are finally breaking out of irrelevance. You should see more "apple is evil" soon.
The other thing is, some companies can keep better control of these sources of evil, so the companies themselves are considered less evil, though the larger a company is, typically the harder this task is.
I think that means that it is bootable on a PS3. This kind of thing would only be included if it was compiled for a PS3, and as for "is it required", only if you want to run arbitrary distros on a PS3, which there are people who'd want to do that.
Why? Each of these groups is about getting money and minimising financial cost at all cost, so to speak. Typically everyone else is usually interested simply in making a good product, and trying not to be hindered by these 3 or 4.
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I can see a lot of other comments about how easy this is to bypass being ok...
But let me make sure I am reading this right, because I don't think I am.
Are you suggesting we shouldn't do this out of kindness, respect or decency towards the scum that is sexual predators?
I would disagree because its a waste of money and easy to get around, but due to the nature of this kind of thing... We'll I assume (fairly safely) I'll never be on "that list", but if someone came to me and told me that I'd be on that list in 10 years, I'd still want measures like that around, though if possible, much harder to bypass; say deny them unsupervised computer access.
well, it's an imperfect solution, because APT did exactly that kind of thing to me two years ago. I couldn't grab the dependancies at times, or it could grab them but couldn't handle some conflict.
It's been alleviated I'll grant you, but solved, it is not.
Ok, I can see this now
...
...
[stew]
Parking > spot 3
Dependancy Error: Parking Spot 3 depends on sedan-model cars in spot 2 and 4. Spot 4
"DAMNIT! Spot 3 is the spot that my car is supposed to go into, I'll get ticketed if it is elswhere."
[stan comes along and tries to access the attendant next to stew]
Parking > spot 5
Dependancy Error: Parking spot 5 depends on minivan-model cars in spot 4 and 6
"Huh? WTF?"
Stew: "Whats up?"
Stan: "It won't let me put the car in my spot unless there's a minivan in spot 4 and 6."
Stew: "That's annoying... WAIT... I can't park unless there is a sedan in spot 4!"
Stan: "So... we can't park at the same time?"
Stew: "Apparantly not. Unless we want to go to the wrong spot and get tickets. Who set this crap up?"
[a few minutes later, steve, a sedan driver pulls up to the next attendant..."
Parking > Spot 4
Dependancy Error: Spot 4 requires vehicles in spots 3 and 5. Spot 4 cannot hold minivan or sedan.
"What the hell!? I can't park in my own spot with my own car?"
Stan: "Not only that, but spots 3 and 5 cant be filled at the same time due to these stupid dependancies."
Stew: "Who said we should use Linux on these things again?"
actually, most scientific research goes to the papers before the financers. Unless the scientific research is within a corporation and not acadamia. It protects them from a lot of what you mentioned.
Admittedly they *may* loose repeat funding from certain biased sources, but there are other sources, holding the opposite oppinion that would likely pick up the slack.
Yes, but did the provide it on a "if your results match this, you get money" basis, otherwise you don't?
Science can be financially motivated, it's hard to keep it from being so, since it's run by people who need to live in a world where you need finance. However the answers should not be financially motivated
Yeah, that is an issue unfortunately. Intel is a good choice for you to look at as the do provide Linux drivers for their NICs. nVidia and ATI are nice for providing graphics drivers as well.
But that's another reason I chose FreeBSD. They have a nice hardware compatability list. Barring something really weird (i.e. Toshiba's tweaked bus structure, which screws up in Linux as well), if it's there, it'll work. Not only that, but they usually have good instructions on how to get it working, with useful examples. Even if it's not on the list, it might still work, though you will want to do a bit of external and newsgroup research before buying.
And very little of what the person I replied to mentioned fell into that category. Most of the stuff would be a challange, and a big one, but not one that couldn't be dealt with.
Not to mention, unlike what was in your example, none of it was illegal either. At least, not until recently. And even then, only a small part of it (the exchange stuff not being properly documented).
My problem is that every pice of "official" documentation for CF that I read suggested that was a good idea, and gave *NO* warnings of the problems... Just suggested it was all you'd ever need for data verification.
I just can't trust the security of the internals of a program where they suggest users do taht for security... It makes me wonder how the rest works...
and as I said to several others, I was referring to the person I replied to and not the TFA. The author of TFA did deal with it at his end, the same way several others here dealt with it.
well, similar. Most moved to Windows or MacOS... I moved to FreeBSD...
yes, but many of the issues in the OP that I replied to are /not/ restricted problems, as you defined them.
He delt with the problem at his end with Linux the same way I did: use something else. I understand that, and it's a perfectly acceptable solution (I went a slightly different direction though, for different reasons).
But the person I was replying to was complaining about the situation in developerland instead of userland, and while the two intersect, they are a bit different.
s/WIND/WINE
stupid finger slip.
Yes, because the WIND developers are all in prison for solving a problem rather than bitching about it.
Oh, wait, no they aren't. They solved the problem at their end rather than the Microsofts!
So, to sum up your post:
"You are experiencing problems similar to many other to-Linux migrators. Don't worry, the problem isn't you or Linux, it's everyone else - all the hardware manufacturers and software vendors."
Sorry, blaming problems on everyone but us doesn't do anything except prevent the problems from being solved (and it can cause even more problems). Other groups have adapted to this kind of mentality, even within the Linux borders. Passing the buck, like this post implicitly suggest isn't a good idea for getting things working. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see those solutions you mentioned also, but to say the problem is all on the other side is not only wrong, it's counter productive. Linux could use more developers (most OSS projects could), and Linux could cooperative developers, a bit of competition is good to encourage improvment, but too much competition (dozes of projects that do more or less the same thing for example) can spread the resources too thin to get anything done in a timely manner.
Are things as easy as they could be? No
Are things as easy as they should be? No
Will bitching and moaning about it, or logical reasoning change it? Hasn't yet, so most likely: No.
Answer: Deal with the problem at your end.
ooh, that's a nice change.
I think they tell me what drugs to avoid.
Seriously, if they want untrained lemming to make the decision on use, rather than trained professionals, then I suspect the product is not good quality. And the commercials, as stated, target the untrained and unknowing, not the doctors and professionals
the probelm his, the exploiters/hackers will do this kind of thing even if told not to. Makes me think of the "_required" input names in cold-fusion forms *shudder*.
No, what we need is browsers that will let us force-mute things. What needs this more than anything else? Flash Player., since I think most browser has a "no audio" option anyway.
I wouldn't mind seeing a "core team" for Linux as well. All my problems I've had on Linux can be attributed to the very non-standard nature of the OS, with so many things going in so many different directions, making it often a challange to put the pieces together properly.
It's the reason I use FreeBSD - the BSD teams tend to be a bit more focused on gettinging everything there working together nicely, rather than adding everything they can with reckless abandon. Pro: Things just work (as long as you check the hardware compatability database before buying your hardware). Cons: The latest and greatest isn't always available, and the administrative tools usually don't have quite the eye-candy.
User input devices? i.e. Keyboards, Mice, etc.
While I agree with you on the effects on the Microsoft side of the house, I don't agree with the Hardware Manufacturer side of the house. Simply put: Microsoft making DRMed driver modules does not affect an hardware manufacturers at all in regards to wanting to open-source their drivers.
Ex: ATi and nVidia cannot open source their drivers because of legal issues with patents and trademarks held by [if I remember correctly] SGI and possibly several others, whose technologies allow the drivers to work.
What this will do is increase the cost of driver development in the Windows side, a market the manufacturers can neither drop nor ignore. Likewise, this could also decrease the extra cash flow into the company, and potentially diminish the resources available for the in-house drivers designed for Linux/BSD. So this could potentially hurt Linux/BSD in many ways as well. It just depends on how profitable making those drivers available is.
I never said they didn't perform a valid and important purpose, however they often go too far...
Marketing:
Good: Sell a good product to those who need/want it
Evil: trying to get money from anyone regardless of need/want, trying to encourage methods of forcing people to pay extra money for minimal return, trying sell something useless and then get people to buy the functional parts as extras, etc.
Legal:
Good: Protecting a company from predatory practices of others
Evil: enacting such predatory practices against anyone they can
Accounting:
Good: Making product production cost efficient whithout degrading quality
Evil: Forcing corner-cutting to the point where a quality product can no longer be produced.
Because these areas are typically "about the money" with little other concern, they often go towards the "evil" options, since they are appear more lucrative (and typically are in short to medium term).
actually, I use "evil" in respect to apple all the time. The problem is, they had been so evil for so long, it /did/ hurt them, so nobody cares about them anymore. They are finally breaking out of irrelevance. You should see more "apple is evil" soon.
The other thing is, some companies can keep better control of these sources of evil, so the companies themselves are considered less evil, though the larger a company is, typically the harder this task is.
I think that means that it is bootable on a PS3. This kind of thing would only be included if it was compiled for a PS3, and as for "is it required", only if you want to run arbitrary distros on a PS3, which there are people who'd want to do that.
Oh, and accounting.
Why? Each of these groups is about getting money and minimising financial cost at all cost, so to speak. Typically everyone else is usually interested simply in making a good product, and trying not to be hindered by these 3 or 4.
Legal, Sales and Marketing... That's the source of evil in any company.