Slashdot Mirror

I had to look into it, because it seemed to be a bit of a stretch, even for PETA. But damned if you weren't correct about that. Here's one of the links for folks interested. http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/eight-animals/

I'm trying to take your comment as genuine Arterion, although it is difficult.

We kill some 56 Billion* other humans each and every year, for our pleasure and/or profit? I don't think so. I'm not thrilled on "sweatshops", however that is in no way similar to what we do to other animals, who have no choice whatsoever, who are indeed locked inside their confinements, be it by a gate, a wall, a cage or what have you, to await their miserable deaths.

Who decides where we are classified? Did Chickens invent some "food chain", and put us at the top of it? Do they justify "the way the world is" by this image they've concocted? Or do we tell ourselves this, with a design of our own invention, "conveniently" placing ourselves at its pinnacle? :-)

Sociologist Roger Yates has an interesting podcast and blog on this issue, http://human-nonhuman.blogspot.com/

Yes, other animals do indeed kill and eat the remains of further more animals. They also do *many* other things you and I would consider unethical, yet we do not use "all the other kids were doing it!" as an excuse for polygamy, incest, murder etc. If we are indeed capable of caring for others, does that not become an obligation? Is an adult not obligated to care for a child? Lets say, you're driving your car past a school, and some idiot child runs in front of your vehicle, oblivious. Are you obligated to *attempt* to stop, to avoid them? Or, is it "shit happens", with no course correction ethically obligated on your part? Are we to instead ACCELERATE, knocking them into the back of our "ute" (in American, "pickup truck")? I dont think so, I dont think you would either.

I do not believe in a "mother nature".

I would again suggest Professor Gary Franciones "Abolitionist Approach" website, http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ , his podcasts and articles are fantastic, his work is often published in American media, such as his "We're All Michael Vick" piece from a few years ago, why are we so concerned about a rich African American who made dogs hurt one another, when we believe in harming and killing many billions of *other* animals each year? Why do we hold a moral worth on the life of dogs, yet not pigs?

http://articles.philly.com/2009-08-14/news/24986151_1_atlanta-falcons-quarterback-vick-illegal-dog-dog-fights

If its not crass, can I shamelessly plug my own podcast? My last episode was about American tv shows coming to New Zealand to record, tying this into perceptions given by television, using clips from many episodes of King of the Hill, as related to Animal Rights. Finally, I wrap up the episode with Barbara DeGrande, the founder of Animal Rights and Rescue North Texas, to ask about Texas stereotypes portrayed via TV, aware to those living at the bottom of the world, and of promoting Veganism in Texas.

http://www.invsoc.org.nz/2011/04/episode-52-new-zealand-diet-where-you.html

Best wishes Arterion! *56 Billion land animals killed each year, 2007 FAO figures, PDF here http://bit.ly/56billion

I hope you'll decide to be Vegan, and to extend your respect towards all other animals.

I found Professor Gary Franciones website useful when I first become Vegan, http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ as well as the many podcast shows out there, heads up, Coexisting is my own show, http://bit.ly/veganpodcastinfo

I can understand your belief that we *need* to "experiment" on other animals, I disagree with you very strongly, and I think we can both look forward to the day that nobody is hurt in the name of experimentation.

Hi mattack2,

I wouldnt "have" anyone die, human or nonhuman. I certainly wouldnt kill one person to save one other, or two others. Do you think to act as such would be ethical?

All animal use is equal, why, or perhaps better, how would we rank evils?

Its as easy to be Vegan as not, and its the least other animals deserve.

If you are further interested, might I suggest this recent post on my blog, in regards to speaking out for respect towards other animals. I mention both The Animals Film , and Earthlings, while I never normally bring them up, I dont believe actual footage helps initially, its important we actually *know* what we are doing to others. You mentioned the awful "experiments" and "testing" we force on other animals:

http://coexistingwithnonhumananimals.blogspot.com/2010/12/iphone-or-ipod-touch-is-activists-best.html

For anyone else interested in Veganism, I'd recommend again

http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/

Thanks for replying to me mattack2 :-)

Sorry for the delay in replying to you.

I find it unacceptable to "use", lets be clear, to *kill* others like this, just as I would find it unacceptable to kill another human being in this manner. I am all for organ donation, after I am dead for example, I am not for being killed for my organs :-)

The issue is actually rather black and white, just as we cannot be a "little bit pregnant", especially as a guy, we either kill others for our uses, or we do not. Throughout time, our societies change, for example, think of human slavery in many developed nations, and how its still having repercussions to this day.

I'm a 23 year old New Zealander, in 1981, years before my birth, was "The Tour". South Africas team visited my country for a tour. This was hotly protested, its a defining moment in my nations history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_South_Africa_rugby_union_tour_of_New_Zealand

A sporting boycott was initiated against South Africa, because of Apartheid. Among the more rural areas, there was "keep politics out of sport", said by our centre Right party to gain approval from those most likely to enjoy the sport, those likely to vote centre Right, against standing up for human rights overseas. Many of our own native people, the Maori were vehemently against the racism, having been prejudiced here.

Early South African tours ran into trouble, with White South Africans not wanting to play a game of sport with "brown" people. We stood up over that, with "No Maoris, No Tour" slogans. Well, now we further refine that, no "Maori", being no plural S in the Maori language, we have further progressed. Times change.

Issues of "welfare" do not matter. All farmed animals live horrible lives, which end in them being killed, "Dairy" cows, Chickens for Eggs, animals such as Sheep from whom we take their Wool, and kill them... they all die the same horrible way.

I am sorry you are diabetic, I am glad you personally are involved in tests. I have family member who were in more dire situations who also were involved in trials. Thank you for helping others. I myself have given blood many times, I'm not sure how much, we dont have "pints" here in the Metric world :-) Although, for tradition, older men order "a pint" of beer.

I think we can agree there is a hell of a difference between those forced into experiments, human and nonhuman equally, and those who volunteer. Nonhumans appreciate and deserve their lives as much as you or I do. Certainly, I love Falafel, but not as much as my Rooster friend :-) http://bit.ly/roosterfalafel

I suppose we could liken the "farming" of animals for xenotransplantation to if we were to do as such to other, "lower classes" of humans, "but they're going to die in poverty any way". We wouldnt argue "but they had a great life living in sterile concrete" because we see *all* human life as valuable, where as currently nonhumans are seen as "lesser", as our "things". An interesting moral question is of a doctor treating a young, healthy patient for a broken bone, when there are several dying patients, who may need a new heart, a new kidney, a new liver etc. Would it be moral to kill the one healthy man, who broke his arm, to save the many? We would never feel this way, surely?

I hope you can respect me for being consistent in that I believe its wrong to hurt others, to class them as our property, to regard them as "things". I wouldnt lie to you because of personal circumstances re diabetes.

If you'd like to learn more about Veganism, please visit http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ to learn more about Veganism.

I'm from Invercargill, New Zealand. Right now, I'm about ... 20KM or so from the "Living Cell Technologies facility", or so we can suppose, the location is "top secret".

Its a very interesting topic, I am Vegan, I see it as absolutely *horrid* that we would even think of harming other animals, we would not do this to Human animals...or would we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiment

What do you think happens in Gitmo, and Area 51?

As a local of the area, I can speak more in detail of what goes on, of the coverage at a local, and national level. Its basically treated as the second coming of jesus, that his will be a miracle cure, and *MOST IMPORTANTLY*, that our Mayor claims all the credit, for all the money that this WILL (because its going to succeed dammit) bring to the area.

For more on their story, of being left on a bunch of rocks just before Antartica for Whalers to kill, of being designated "an introduced species", who MUST be killed by our Department of "Conservation", apart from a few kept alive as a novelty, please visit my blog post. I include an Australian news video which shows a tour of the awful facility. To my knowledge, this sort of coverage has never occurred in my area, where this is happening, perhaps for fear of public backlash. I also include a letter I wrote to my local newspaper, which was answered by LCT:

http://coexistingwithnonhumananimals.blogspot.com/2010/05/video-of-pig-transplant-facility-in.html

To what end will we abuse others? Its as easy to be Vegan as not, and its the least other animals deserve.

To learn more about Veganism, please visit http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ or try one these podcasts http://coexistingwithnonhumananimals.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegan-info.html

Jordan Wyatt
Invercargill Vegan Society

"Japan team says stem cells made paralysed monkey jump again"

Oh, researchers make animals "jump" eh? How original! Thats what 1.21 Jigga-watts'll do to ya!

I recommend The Animals Film, from 1981, nothing has changed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Animals_Film

I would never force someone to watch The Animals Film, or Earthlings, however, for those willing, TAF has very indepth footage of "animal testing". Near the end, a "two headed dog" is created, by sewing one small dogs head, and forelimbs atop a larger dog. Who knows, perhaps by the same laboratory as this "jumping Monkey".

"TOKYO - Japanese researchers said Wednesday they had used stem cells to restore partial mobility in a small monkey that had been paralysed from the neck down by a spinal injury."

Oh, how nice, they wandered about Japanese rainforests looking for injured Monkeys to help! Awwwww :-)

Most likely, they caused the injury deliberately, perhaps by cutting his or her spine, or in some other fashion. "Look, we kinda fixed it this time" is not a cause for celebration.

We shouldnt be "experimenting" on Nonhuman Animals period.

Its as easy to be Vegan as not, and its the least we can do for others. We kill 56 Billion land animals each year, Fish are not even counted individually, UN FAO statistics from 2007 http://www.bit.ly/56billion , we can do far more help for other animals by *not* treating them as our property, as things, than no doubt deliberately paralysing imported Monkeys, and then "experimenting" to "fix" them.

For more about Veganism, please visit http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ or try these podcasts , http://bit.ly/veganpodcastinfo . Disclaimer, Coexisting is mine.

The last resource I'd direct you to would again be the Abolitionist Approach website,

http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/

A comment on this link, first FAQ questions kind of answers my original quesition:

Question 1: Domestic animals, such as cows and pigs, and laboratory rats would not exist were it not for our bringing them into existence in the first place for our purposes. So is it not the case that we are free to treat them as our resources?

However, I'd change the last sentence, the question, to be: "So is it not the case that we can treat them as our resources to some degree?"

To that question, I can easily say that in my opinion yes, to some degree. World is not black and white.

Hey Kitsune Inari,

PETA class themselves as "Animal Rights", possibly because its "cooler" ;-)

They have whats called a "New Welfarist" approach, they are mostly Vegan (the staff), but promote NonVeganism, "Happy Meat" etc, because "Veganism is hard!". I strongly disagree with this, there is nothing difficult about being Vegan!

I live at the bottom of the world, not bloody Los Angeles or Portland, some city filled with "hipsters" ;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invercargill

Its easy to be Vegan here, its easy to be Vegan pretty much anywhere, granted, I guess it could be hard buying Soymilk if you lived in Antartica, not many local stores that carry it, I hear ;-) Then again, in such locations, not many convenience stores anywhere! They make/bring/are sent their own supplies!

There is nothing "wingnuts" about Animal Rights.

I invite you to visit http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ , or my own Show, http://coexistingwithnonhumananimals.blogspot.com/

Best wishes to you

hi!

I'm glad you've heard of PETA, please dont assume they speak for ANYONE, such as Abolitionist Vegans ( http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ ) like myself! I dont think you have, you mentioned as such, just making it clear to others who may be reading this comment.

No Animal Welfare, OR Animal Rights group I know of are talking about "throwing animals out onto the streets", all that I know of have always spoke about adopting unwanted nonhumans.

I cannot speak on nutrition, I am not a health professional, although many of them also have crazy positions! Think of all the "fad diets" out there! ;-)

I find it highly unlikely that anyone could NOT be Vegan. I've had tests done for Iron levels, and were fine. I am 23 years old, 1.95 Metres tall, up until a few months ago, I cycled 66 kilometres a day, and have a job moving furniture. I'm health :-) I would go so far to say that all Vegans I know would be healthier than "the median" New Zealander or American, they would tend to be thinner, more muscular, more active etc.

That is certainly not a rule! Being Vegan does not instantly give you super powers, ha! http://coexistingwithnonhumananimals.blogspot.com/2010/11/vegan-super-powers-video.html

I know of many "rescued" cats and dogs, as you mentioned. I'm glad you've been able to care for other animals :-)

If you're interested in hearing more from consistent, and sane *ACTUAL* Animal Rights people, please try these websites,

http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ http://veganacious.com/

And these podcasts http://nzveganpodcast.blogspot.com/ http://human-nonhuman.blogspot.com/

Best wishes to you

hi!

I'm glad you've heard of PETA, please dont assume they speak for ANYONE, such as Abolitionist Vegans ( http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ ) like myself! I dont think you have, you mentioned as such, just making it clear to others who may be reading this comment.

No Animal Welfare, OR Animal Rights group I know of are talking about "throwing animals out onto the streets", all that I know of have always spoke about adopting unwanted nonhumans.

I cannot speak on nutrition, I am not a health professional, although many of them also have crazy positions! Think of all the "fad diets" out there! ;-)

I find it highly unlikely that anyone could NOT be Vegan. I've had tests done for Iron levels, and were fine. I am 23 years old, 1.95 Metres tall, up until a few months ago, I cycled 66 kilometres a day, and have a job moving furniture. I'm health :-) I would go so far to say that all Vegans I know would be healthier than "the median" New Zealander or American, they would tend to be thinner, more muscular, more active etc.

That is certainly not a rule! Being Vegan does not instantly give you super powers, ha! http://coexistingwithnonhumananimals.blogspot.com/2010/11/vegan-super-powers-video.html

I know of many "rescued" cats and dogs, as you mentioned. I'm glad you've been able to care for other animals :-)

If you're interested in hearing more from consistent, and sane *ACTUAL* Animal Rights people, please try these websites,

http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ http://veganacious.com/

And these podcasts http://nzveganpodcast.blogspot.com/ http://human-nonhuman.blogspot.com/

Best wishes to you

As a Vegan, I'm always interested when these issues come up on my usual websites. I, like many of the other Animal Rights people here visit Slashdot, Ars, Engadget, Gizmodo etc daily, we dont cause any fuss, but when these "stories" arise, "ohhhhh, they're hypocrites", or "I'm gonna have me a big steak, yummy mc yum yums!!!111!!!" are the usual posts.

I'm also quite against PETA, they have a New Welfarist approach, I despise how they have Women pose and RE promoting Veganism, "screw the principle" http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ingrid-newkirk-on-principled-veganism-screw-the-principle/

"PETA can't rightfully preach about animal rights while euthanizing tens of thousands of unwanted pets every year. Hypocrisy at its finest.".

They can "preach" Animal Rights while also practising euthanasia you realise? Just as I love being alive, but were I to have Cancer such as others in my family, I could well imagine rather being dead, than to die slowly over the months. Now, I much prefer the idea of No Kill shelters, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-kill_shelter , I dont know how practical they are in real life. I've had family members who've volunteered with the SPCA etc, I myself have no hands on experience of this kind.

I agree with practically NOTHING coming from PETA, I think it must obviously be wrong that they "put to sleep" so many animals each year.

However, please dont write off Animal Rights because of PETA's actions.

http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ and these shows http://bit.ly/veganpodcastinfo were useful for me.

I also promote Veganism through videos of my Chicken Friends (such as "A Day in the Life..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj8gL8lj-Yg ), and through my show http://coexistingwithnonhumananimals.blogspot.com/

As a Vegan, I'm always interested when these issues come up on my usual websites. I, like many of the other Animal Rights people here visit Slashdot, Ars, Engadget, Gizmodo etc daily, we dont cause any fuss, but when these "stories" arise, "ohhhhh, they're hypocrites", or "I'm gonna have me a big steak, yummy mc yum yums!!!111!!!" are the usual posts.

I'm also quite against PETA, they have a New Welfarist approach, I despise how they have Women pose and RE promoting Veganism, "screw the principle" http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ingrid-newkirk-on-principled-veganism-screw-the-principle/

"PETA can't rightfully preach about animal rights while euthanizing tens of thousands of unwanted pets every year. Hypocrisy at its finest.".

They can "preach" Animal Rights while also practising euthanasia you realise? Just as I love being alive, but were I to have Cancer such as others in my family, I could well imagine rather being dead, than to die slowly over the months. Now, I much prefer the idea of No Kill shelters, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-kill_shelter , I dont know how practical they are in real life. I've had family members who've volunteered with the SPCA etc, I myself have no hands on experience of this kind.

I agree with practically NOTHING coming from PETA, I think it must obviously be wrong that they "put to sleep" so many animals each year.

However, please dont write off Animal Rights because of PETA's actions.

http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ and these shows http://bit.ly/veganpodcastinfo were useful for me.

I also promote Veganism through videos of my Chicken Friends (such as "A Day in the Life..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj8gL8lj-Yg ), and through my show http://coexistingwithnonhumananimals.blogspot.com/

We are traditionally against GM, although tests remain, just as we are proud of being the first country to grant women voting rights, suffrage, and being "Nuclear Free", although we do have Radiation Therepy and smoke detectors with Americium

In regards to omnivorism, try playing another round of "Defensive Omnivore Bingo" ;) http://bit.ly/veganbingo

We can live just fine with animal byproducts or without, without "special care", although compare people of each lifestyle and come to your own conclusions, the worlds becoming obese because of Veganism, right? I live in New Zealand, now the worlds third most obese nation, its a disgrace.

I use positive examples when talking about what we do to animals with people, I'm not here to argue for the 56 Billion land animals killed annually (UN FOA 2007 PDF http://bit.ly/56billion ), I mention the Chickens I look after, they get into mischief :) http://bit.ly/chickensax

I've many more videos, taken on my iPhone 4 on my YouTube account.

Theres something very sad that so many treat animals as just "property", as things, an "it", rather than a "he" or "she".

Please visit http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/about/ for more on Veganism.

Humans were not meant to be packed like sardines into crowded cities with no where to escape to

Neither were the sardines meant to be killed and packed in cans!

http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/

aw cmon, you were ONtopic!

Theres one solution to the issue of animal suffering in the world, not to regulate it, but to abolish the property status of Animals. 56 Billion land animals a year, ( UN FOA 2007 PDF http://bit.ly/56billion ), for what? Pleasure, and profit.

For more on Veganism, please visit http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/

I would strongly protest any idea of so called "humane" killing. There can surely be no way to "humanely" kill an animal, for our pleasure, just as there can be no "humane" rape, or "humane" child slavery.

I promote Veganism through creative, and nonviolent means. I want no part of PETA's sexist stunts, and single issue campaigns. I still cannot believe they give awards to slaughterhouse designers! http://www.peta.org/feat/proggy/2004/winners.html Temple Grandin is mentioned as a "visionary".

There is simply no moral justification for the slaughter of 56 billion land animals a year. http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/

If you want to support a legitimate group with the same or very similar goals, support the SPCA I'm all about reducing suffering and cruelty, in animals and humans. But animals are delicious. An animal, raised right by humans for food, suffers FAR LESS than its wild counterpart. Being raised by a good rancher is a great bargain for a cow. A pleasant life with plentiful food and no predation, in exchange for a quick and painless death. If I were a cow, I'd take that over constant fear of predators and the threat of starvation.

The SPCA is *VERY* far from an Animal Rights position. SPCA is a Welfare initiative. For example, promoting so called "humane" animal products. In NZ, a recent news story was how the "free range" label is meaningless http://coexistingwithnonhumananimals.blogspot.com/2010/05/no-actual-free-range-standard-for-nz.html Indeed, many Vegans, such as myself, are VERY critical of PETA. I *hate* when they raise false choices, between "have the animals suffer" or "lets kill animals but maybe make the cages an inch bigger". I promote actual Veganism, true Animal Rights.

Animals are delicious? Well...I would disagree, but I guess taste is subjective, taste is what you grow up with. If you live in an area where you eat X, you will most likely enjoy it, no matter what other cities/countries/continents think.

I find it hard to believe in any situation that a wild animal "suffers" more than an animal stuck in a cage for its whole life. Its somewhat like saying an animal with one of his or her legs stuck in a trap is suffering far less...

Lets put the choice into the outside world. Lets say that people would all live to be 100 if we lived inside our whole lives. I'd even expand it beyond "a cage", lets go with a whole building. Would you choose that situation? Or would you rather be outside, able to live wherever you wish? To be able to eat whatever you wish? To listen to music you choose, to drive a car...its just silly to continue on this chain of thought! Especially if you knew you were being slaughtered while still being a child by choosing the confined option!

If you truly believe being farmed for your organs is "a pleasant life with plentiful food and no predation", then by all means turn yourself in to some cannibals! I liked when you said "no predation", ha, human beings are surely one of the most dangerous predators in the world! Think of a pig, what would eat the majority of pigs in the world? I'd assume people.

From the Vegan groups I know, the majority of Vegans seem to be in the field of Tech! I have a podcast about Animal Rights, and I was getting many messages from Linux using Vegans, who couldnt use iTunes to subscribe. You will notice on stories such as this, there will be regular /. users who mention their veganism. They dont scream it at you in every one of their posts, but there must surely be many vegans using Slashdot.

Frankly, I cannot stand PETA, I hate their position of Welfare reforms and sexist stunts. There are many true AR groups, such as The Abolitionist Approach http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/

I dont think killing 56 billion living beings, excluding aquatic animals*, for our pleasure is morally justifiable. *PDF of UN statistics from 2007 http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/media/pdf/2007-glipha-stats.pdf

If you want to support a legitimate group with the same or very similar goals, support the SPCA I'm all about reducing suffering and cruelty, in animals and humans. But animals are delicious. An animal, raised right by humans for food, suffers FAR LESS than its wild counterpart. Being raised by a good rancher is a great bargain for a cow. A pleasant life with plentiful food and no predation, in exchange for a quick and painless death. If I were a cow, I'd take that over constant fear of predators and the threat of starvation.

The SPCA is *VERY* far from an Animal Rights position. SPCA is a Welfare initiative. For example, promoting so called "humane" animal products. In NZ, a recent news story was how the "free range" label is meaningless http://coexistingwithnonhumananimals.blogspot.com/2010/05/no-actual-free-range-standard-for-nz.html Indeed, many Vegans, such as myself, are VERY critical of PETA. I *hate* when they raise false choices, between "have the animals suffer" or "lets kill animals but maybe make the cages an inch bigger". I promote actual Veganism, true Animal Rights.

Animals are delicious? Well...I would disagree, but I guess taste is subjective, taste is what you grow up with. If you live in an area where you eat X, you will most likely enjoy it, no matter what other cities/countries/continents think.

I find it hard to believe in any situation that a wild animal "suffers" more than an animal stuck in a cage for its whole life. Its somewhat like saying an animal with one of his or her legs stuck in a trap is suffering far less...

Lets put the choice into the outside world. Lets say that people would all live to be 100 if we lived inside our whole lives. I'd even expand it beyond "a cage", lets go with a whole building. Would you choose that situation? Or would you rather be outside, able to live wherever you wish? To be able to eat whatever you wish? To listen to music you choose, to drive a car...its just silly to continue on this chain of thought! Especially if you knew you were being slaughtered while still being a child by choosing the confined option!

If you truly believe being farmed for your organs is "a pleasant life with plentiful food and no predation", then by all means turn yourself in to some cannibals! I liked when you said "no predation", ha, human beings are surely one of the most dangerous predators in the world! Think of a pig, what would eat the majority of pigs in the world? I'd assume people.

From the Vegan groups I know, the majority of Vegans seem to be in the field of Tech! I have a podcast about Animal Rights, and I was getting many messages from Linux using Vegans, who couldnt use iTunes to subscribe. You will notice on stories such as this, there will be regular /. users who mention their veganism. They dont scream it at you in every one of their posts, but there must surely be many vegans using Slashdot.

Frankly, I cannot stand PETA, I hate their position of Welfare reforms and sexist stunts. There are many true AR groups, such as The Abolitionist Approach http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/

I dont think killing 56 billion living beings, excluding aquatic animals*, for our pleasure is morally justifiable. *PDF of UN statistics from 2007 http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/media/pdf/2007-glipha-stats.pdf

Im an "abolitionist vegan", against all use. You could sum it down to "animals one right, not to be property". Simply put, I'd say I'm against hurting others, theres no doubt in mainstream scientific knowledge that animals "feel" and have "emotions", most likely "thinking" about themselves and others, and I know that I certainly dont want to hurt an animal if I can help it. No matter what I do, animals will be hurt, but I always try and cause the least harm that I can.

A good website about veganism Abolitinist Approach

I hate to defend PETA, but you should make it clear that they were contacted BY the media, its not like every vegan in the world flew to DC to picket outside the White House until fly spray (or hands capable of swatting) were banned!

Theres many more vegans worldwide than the one leading that PETA outfit. I'm a NZ vegan personally opposed to PETA because of their animal welfare campaigns "stop torturing chicks KFC, gas them instead! thats "humane" !", and how they have women pose as sex objects to sell the message about leaving animals alone. To learn more about animal rights, done RIGHT, Gary Francione has a good website, http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/

I know its à la mode to beat up on vegetarians/PETA, but at least get your source right!

Gary Francione (http://www.abolitionistapproach.com) presents what in my view is the most morally consistent defense of veganism. No real vegetarian eats fish or chicken. The crux of the vegan argument is that there is no such thing as an ethical source of animal products; in all cases an animal is being exploited. The problem isn't with killing in general, or as you said, plants would not be okay. The problem is with killing, or more specifically, exploiting sentient beings. Sure, chickens aren't killed for eggs, but chickens are most certainly exploited in the process, caused to suffer, and all eventually are killed when they cease to be useless. Similarly with dairy, except in some cases with dairy, you have the calves to take care of (i.e. need to sell them as veal).