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Actually, if, on a Mac running OS X, you do nohup blahblahblah >/tmp/blahblahlog 2>&1 & in a Terminal window in a GUI session, and then log out and log back in again, blahblahblah will still be running (verified experimentally on an El Camino (virtual) machine just now).

Harrumph El Capitan, d00d.

(If it warns you that there's a process running in Terminal, and that logging out will kill it, tell it to close the Terminal window anyway; it's lying, the process will survive. I'm not sure what signal is getting sent, if any, but it ain't SIGKILL - perhaps it's SIGHUP, as nohup's purpose is to make the process ignore SIGHUP.

To be fair, the OS X nohup, as well as, apparently, the OS X screen has been modified to call _vprocmgr_detach_from_console() , and that document is part of a version of tmux ported to OS X.

So perhaps screen, tmux, and nohup need to be modified to, on systems with systemd, do whatever the appropriate magic is necessary, just as is done on OS X.

Actually, if, on a Mac running OS X, you do nohup blahblahblah >/tmp/blahblahlog 2>&1 & in a Terminal window in a GUI session, and then log out and log back in again, blahblahblah will still be running (verified experimentally on an El Camino (virtual) machine just now).

Harrumph El Capitan, d00d.

(If it warns you that there's a process running in Terminal, and that logging out will kill it, tell it to close the Terminal window anyway; it's lying, the process will survive. I'm not sure what signal is getting sent, if any, but it ain't SIGKILL - perhaps it's SIGHUP, as nohup's purpose is to make the process ignore SIGHUP.

To be fair, the OS X nohup, as well as, apparently, the OS X screen has been modified to call _vprocmgr_detach_from_console() , and that document is part of a version of tmux ported to OS X.

So perhaps screen, tmux, and nohup need to be modified to, on systems with systemd, do whatever the appropriate magic is necessary, just as is done on OS X.

At what age did Tim Cook learn to program?

He may have never done any development work. He seems to have been more management focused. I think he just wants low cost workers.

go to that link, click on the MBP picture. You'll note that when you do, it will come up with an enlarged picture with "Macbook Pro with Retina". AFAIK, they no longer sell non retina MBPs, and haven't for at least the last couple of years. To go non-retina, you have to buy a Macbook.

You, sir, are mistaken. They do appear to have an error on their site, not surprising given that they've let this model stagnate; however, if you head back to the Buy page and look at their offerings, you'll see that, at the bottom, below the "with Retina" listings, there is a lonely little listing for the 13" MacBook Pro. That is what I linked to. Now, if you click on Tech Specs, you'll see a side-by-side of the two Retina models; scroll down again. See it there, under the Other Models heading, just above Accessories? "13-Inch MacBook Pro Tech Specs" is the label and it's 1280x800, certainly not Retina.

I do the same, and my MBP and 1 external 2TB disk carries everything I "need"

Uh... I don't see how an external disk has any bearing on the amount of RAM available for running additional operating systems in a virtualized environment, but okay... I find, quite often, that my Mac is using upward of around 12GB of RAM (minus buffers, caches, and the like) while my PC sits comfortably at just over 8GB running the same applications. That's just running my IDE, a couple browsers, Skype, and a few terminal sessions.When I get to testing my application on various platforms, well, that puppy eats up another 4GB once it gets going (I should clarify, the test suite uses most of that, not necessarily the application itself). So let's do some quick back-of-napkin math (and we'll even ignore the RAM used by guest OSes, a concession I'm openly making in order to illustrate my point): RAM used by Mac running typical software and dev tools [12GB] + RAM used by test suite on OS X [4GB] + RAM used by test suite on Windows [4GB] + RAM used by test suite on Linux [4GB] = 24GB. You're right, I can't see any way 32GB of RAM in a MacBook Pro could be useful. None. At. All.

You know, if I could do it legally, I'd just throw the 32GB in my PC and run OS X in a VM and call it a day. But I can't, and I also can't buy a MacBook Pro with 32GB of RAM and the models that come with RAM slots only support up to 16GB (again, only 8GB officially); so, I carry 3 laptops when I know I'm going to have to work remotely.

I mean, I could shut down my IDE, close my browsers, kill Skype, and run the tests on OS X first, then boot the Windows VM and run the test suite there, then kill that and boot the Linux VM and run the test suite there... you know... that might work. In fact, it does work, it's what I do when an over-night trip turns into a full week (e.g. I wasn't planning on having to work, so I only brought the Mac); yeah, it works, except that it literally takes 3x as long, requiring manual intervention (e.g. I have to switch VMs manually and actively monitor progress, lest it take longer because I left it sitting idle when the test suite on one OS completed), and I still wish I'd brought a 2nd laptop so I could still have a usable computer while all of that was going on. Yeah... nah... if I have to carry 2 laptops anyway, carrying a 3rd is less hassle than cycling through VMs, adding another manual procedure to the testing process, and making the already lengthy test suite take 3x longer to run. I absolutely abhor taking a 2hr process and turning it into a 6hr process, as it adds 4hr to my workday.

I'm good with not doing that; I just won't buy another Apple computer until they sell something that fits my needs. If the one I'm using currently (well, there are two but one won't boot OS X anymore for reasons discussed earlier in the thread) happens to break before Apple starts selling somethi

go to that link, click on the MBP picture. You'll note that when you do, it will come up with an enlarged picture with "Macbook Pro with Retina". AFAIK, they no longer sell non retina MBPs, and haven't for at least the last couple of years. To go non-retina, you have to buy a Macbook.

You, sir, are mistaken. They do appear to have an error on their site, not surprising given that they've let this model stagnate; however, if you head back to the Buy page and look at their offerings, you'll see that, at the bottom, below the "with Retina" listings, there is a lonely little listing for the 13" MacBook Pro. That is what I linked to. Now, if you click on Tech Specs, you'll see a side-by-side of the two Retina models; scroll down again. See it there, under the Other Models heading, just above Accessories? "13-Inch MacBook Pro Tech Specs" is the label and it's 1280x800, certainly not Retina.

I do the same, and my MBP and 1 external 2TB disk carries everything I "need"

Uh... I don't see how an external disk has any bearing on the amount of RAM available for running additional operating systems in a virtualized environment, but okay... I find, quite often, that my Mac is using upward of around 12GB of RAM (minus buffers, caches, and the like) while my PC sits comfortably at just over 8GB running the same applications. That's just running my IDE, a couple browsers, Skype, and a few terminal sessions.When I get to testing my application on various platforms, well, that puppy eats up another 4GB once it gets going (I should clarify, the test suite uses most of that, not necessarily the application itself). So let's do some quick back-of-napkin math (and we'll even ignore the RAM used by guest OSes, a concession I'm openly making in order to illustrate my point): RAM used by Mac running typical software and dev tools [12GB] + RAM used by test suite on OS X [4GB] + RAM used by test suite on Windows [4GB] + RAM used by test suite on Linux [4GB] = 24GB. You're right, I can't see any way 32GB of RAM in a MacBook Pro could be useful. None. At. All.

You know, if I could do it legally, I'd just throw the 32GB in my PC and run OS X in a VM and call it a day. But I can't, and I also can't buy a MacBook Pro with 32GB of RAM and the models that come with RAM slots only support up to 16GB (again, only 8GB officially); so, I carry 3 laptops when I know I'm going to have to work remotely.

I mean, I could shut down my IDE, close my browsers, kill Skype, and run the tests on OS X first, then boot the Windows VM and run the test suite there, then kill that and boot the Linux VM and run the test suite there... you know... that might work. In fact, it does work, it's what I do when an over-night trip turns into a full week (e.g. I wasn't planning on having to work, so I only brought the Mac); yeah, it works, except that it literally takes 3x as long, requiring manual intervention (e.g. I have to switch VMs manually and actively monitor progress, lest it take longer because I left it sitting idle when the test suite on one OS completed), and I still wish I'd brought a 2nd laptop so I could still have a usable computer while all of that was going on. Yeah... nah... if I have to carry 2 laptops anyway, carrying a 3rd is less hassle than cycling through VMs, adding another manual procedure to the testing process, and making the already lengthy test suite take 3x longer to run. I absolutely abhor taking a 2hr process and turning it into a 6hr process, as it adds 4hr to my workday.

I'm good with not doing that; I just won't buy another Apple computer until they sell something that fits my needs. If the one I'm using currently (well, there are two but one won't boot OS X anymore for reasons discussed earlier in the thread) happens to break before Apple starts selling somethi

The current crop is finally using the slot M drives my 2013 model PC is using? I could swear my 2013 rMBP uses one as well, though I didn't look that closely and it might simply be PCIe.

It appears to be the case since 2014, at least.

And I question your knowledge of Apple's product lines given the following:

when they stopped selling non retina MBPs

Because, well, it seems they still sell the 13" MBP which, really, should have been obvious since I linked to it earlier in the thread.

go to that link, click on the MBP picture. You'll note that when you do, it will come up with an enlarged picture with "Macbook Pro with Retina". AFAIK, they no longer sell non retina MBPs, and haven't for at least the last couple of years. To go non-retina, you have to buy a Macbook.

For references, as a software developer who tests on all common platforms, gaming is not my focus either (I have consoles for that). 32GB in one machine capable of legally running OS X without a bunch of hackery would mean I no longer need to maintain 3 separate systems for testing purposes, which is why I'm seeking precisely that. No, a Mac Pro is not the solution, as it lacks the portability I often need. One of the perks of working for myself is that I can work from wherever (this means traveling with the wife when she goes to visit family), which basically requires that all of my equipment be portable.

I do the same, and my MBP and 1 external 2TB disk carries everything I "need", extending to my music library and latest few movies I haven't seen yet. ;) I have a set of configured VMs on the laptop for those support needs plus a set of pristine originals on the external. (Copy to the internal, then configure if I need something different, also allows me to keep any clients separated) I guess I've gone one step further along this path or you would have to make a concession that is not palatable.

Ah, but instruction efficiency is. Don't underestimate how important that is; you'll note that the performance of each subsequent release from Intel exceeds that of the previous generation at the same clock speed. Well, given your workload you might not, but a lot of others do, myself included.

As I mentioned, I have the 980x. When OC'd to match the turbo clock speeds of the current top of the line crop, the performance is no more than 50% improved in the new processors with several general benchmarks. That's a 6 year old CPU, and not enough of an improvement to warrant upgrading the system. Microbenchmarks show marked improvements in some cases, but microbenchmarks are not very useful for comparing general performance. With the next CPU releases with 20+ cores, I may consider it, but only once the price hits some reasonable number. Now, that's for desktops, for laptops which are power driven, the performance has definitely been improving per power consumption, but they're close to hitting desktop limits at this point as compared to desktop performance per core. You just can't cram 12+ cores in a laptop just yet and get reasonable performance (battery life) plus you could probably roast a turkey with it.

when they stopped selling non retina MBPs

Because, well, it seems they still sell the 13" MBP which, really, should have been obvious since I linked to it earlier in the thread.

For references, as a software developer who tests on all common platforms, gaming is not my focus either (I have consoles for that). 32GB in one machine capable of legally running OS X without a bunch of hackery would mean I no longer need to maintain 3 separate systems for testing purposes, which is why I'm seeking precisely that. No, a Mac Pro is not the solution, as it lacks the portability I often need. One of the perks of working for myself is that I can work from wherever (this means traveling with the wife when she goes to visit family), which basically requires that all of my equipment be portable.

+1 for holding off on the 10.11 upgrade, though; if I can't have Snow Leopard, Yosemite is the next best release IMO.

core clock speed is no longer increasing

Ah, but instruction efficiency is. Don't underestimate how important that is; you'll note that the performance of each subsequent release from Intel exceeds that of the previous generation at the same clock speed. Well, given your workload you might not, but a lot of others do, myself included.

I think 4GB SODIMMs were the largest ones available when your 2011 MBP was introduced

Well, it was 2012 when I did the upgrade, so that may be true.

and that's why Apple said the maximum amount of RAM was 8GB. Larger modules came later.

In 2011, possibly. However, I said:

Let's look, first, at the last line of MacBook Pro to have user-serviceable RAM.

That is, not my 2011, which I was simply mentioning illustratively, but the current offering. Which still sells with a max of 8GB of RAM because, well, it hasn't seen a refresh since 2013. Incidentally, it only supports 16GB for the same reason; while Apple still claims it only supports up to 8GB (because that's how they sell it).

So, then, even if it is true that Apple claimed the 2011 MacBook Pro only supported8GB of RAM because that is all you could actually buy at the time, what's their excuse in 2016? Or even 2012?

Also, when you upgrade older systems and want to go above the original RAM maximum, you have to be careful about which modules you get. I'm typing this on an old Lenovo x200 that I recently bought used ($20!). When I went to upgrade it from the 2GB it came with to 8GB (which works although the original spec maximum was 4GB), the first set of modules I received didn't work. You have to use low-density modules (8 chips on each side), not higher density ones (4 chips on each side or 8 on just one side), because they're the only 4GB modules that the motherboard will recognize.

You can look up the chipset and CPU in your system to see what they support, it's really not rocket science. That said, I fail to see how that is relevant here.

Yes, I spend $50 to upgrade the memory on a $20 laptop. The modules that were incompatible would have only been $30. But all in all that means that I have a $70 laptop that suits my needs and has a wonderful keyboard. I'll take that.

Indeed, and that was exactly my point. As a "professional" machine, it needs to be user-upgradable; anything less is "prosumer" at best.

I paid $0 for the 2011 MacBook Pro in 2012 (it was my wife's and her dad passed down a 13" early 2012 because he wanted a 15", she gave it to me because the 17" as too big for her) and $75 for the 16GB, so I have a $75 laptop that very well met my needs until the GPU died (taking out the DisplayPort in the process). I can still use it with Intel graphics, which limits me to Linux, as OS X and still-supported versions of Windows both ship with a driver for the dead GPU and both insist on initializing that GPU during boot which, of course, fails, halting the boot process.

So yes, it still works in the 16GB configuration, it's a great little Linux machine, and no, the RAM upgrade didn't affect the GPU (which has its own GDDR on-board), it's a known issue (with a recall and all) on that model and I was ready to upgrade my daily driver when it failed anyway so I never bothered getting it fixed.

IMO, Apple should take their current MacBook and turn it into the MacBook Air, the current retina MacBook Pro should become the MacBook (as its lack of upgradability makes it anything but "Pro"), bring back 15" and 17" models of the older unibody and put the same class of hardware (current CPUs, PCIe SSD, retina display) that the current retina models have in that older unibody case. If they keep the spinning disk as an option, allowing that space to be instead filled with additional battery, and keep the optical drive as an option, allowing that space to be instead filled up with another spinning disk or more battery, and they keep actual RAM sockets, well, then they'd be offering a pro machine. That should be the MacBook Pro. Well, almost; they'd also need to stick a better GPU in the thing than

As the person making the claim that your "personal identifying information" doesn't leave Apple, it is your responsibility to prove that point. The AC just asked how you know, if you don't know you can't make the claim. If you do know, then please share that information with us.

Fine. I'll bite.

First, there's this.

And more specifically, this. Notice the complete absence of "weasel words" and legalese.

All in all, it seems like a pretty reasonable Privacy policy. Wanna compare it with Microsoft's? I didn't think so.

As the person making the claim that your "personal identifying information" doesn't leave Apple, it is your responsibility to prove that point. The AC just asked how you know, if you don't know you can't make the claim. If you do know, then please share that information with us.

Fine. I'll bite.

First, there's this.

And more specifically, this. Notice the complete absence of "weasel words" and legalese.

All in all, it seems like a pretty reasonable Privacy policy. Wanna compare it with Microsoft's? I didn't think so.

You like to dismiss criticism of your username as meaningless, but it's not. It suggests you, like so many others, treat this company and its philosophy like a religion. This suspicion is compounded by the evidence of your post history, which shows a clear agenda: trolling this website to back up Apple wherever possible. It's literally all you do. So forgive me if I find it futile to argue with the Apple priesthood.

Criticism OF my username is meaningless. But criticism BASED ON my username is worse.

I do not "worship" at the "Church of Cupertino". In fact, I own relatively little Apple gear, HAVE never (and WILL never) camp-out in line for an Apple product, have only been to our local Apple Store about 3 or 4 times in the ten or so years it has been open, and actually spend FAR more time on my work Windows 7 laptop than I do on my MacBook Pro.

Quite frankly, one of the things I like about Apple is the fact that their hardware and software products tend to BREAK the "Computer Priesthood" mythos (unlike Windows and even more so for Linux). For example, ask IBM how much they SAVE, and how much LESS they have to rely on Computer Priests when they allow Apple products into their corporate offices.

That isn't me saying it. It is an industry giant, who, by the way, really doesn't have anything to gain by doing so.

And they are most certainly not alone. Look at the comments by several large corporations that have "discovered" the benefits of Apple in business.

Again, not my words.

Although I thoroughly reject the idea that I am a member of the "Apple Priesthood", I do have quite a history of being an Apple user, going back to the Apple 1. As such, I have watched the company through its ups, and downs, and ups, and I know for a fact that their "corporate culture" is decidedly different for almost any other company their size.

There is a vast difference between "Worship" and "Recognition", which is something that seems to get conveniently ignored by the Haters. I RECOGNIZE that Apple, more than most tech companies, at least TRIES to "do right" by their Customer-base, by and large, even if they don't always do what *I* would want. And if I am a bit strident in my defense of Apple, it is mostly compensation for the ridiculous, over-the-top, bend-over-backwards hyper-critical postings of not just a few, but many, slashdotters (almost all who are too pusillanimous to actually log-in), who ascribe motives and machinations and wheels-within-wheels conspiracies to Apple, and who patently and off-handedly dismiss their hardware and software, almost always without even having touched same.

I guess I feel that someone needs to "set the record straight"; which is why I almost always back-up my posts with citations.

Which I notice that, in all your diatribe, you have not offered ONE fact in rebuttal to my OP.

To me, that is most telling...

Is there a way to turn off the battery monitoring on their app by any chance?

If that sort of thing bothers you, don't use Android? It's unlikely Uber has access to that information on iOS.

iOS apps have access to battery level and state: https://developer.apple.com/li...

Thank you for these tips on making my Mac less obnoxious. It's also reassuring that you don't think I need to replace it.

While I do appreciate your suggestions, I do think that you need to work on your mentoring style. It seems more appropriate to the Marines than us more gentle civilians. Perhaps if you were less strident people might like you better.

LOL! I DO apologize for my "strident" (I would say more like "spastic"!) "mentoring" style! I'm really NOT like that!!!

But I am glad you saw through my drubbing to extract the few nuggets of information I provided in amongst the un-called-for insults!

Sometimes, after battling with some truly uncivilized Anonymous Cowards on here, I tend to get "trigger-happy".

Again, please accept my apologies, and if you have any further questions, please let me know. I promise not to bite off your head and sh** down your neck! (Quoting "Gunny" in Full Metal Jacket)...

I truly was serious that I think you don't need to replace your Mac. Having said that, I don't know how much RAM you have in that MBA, and if it is only 4 GB, it is almost guaranteed to be a little slower overall than a machine with more RAM. That's just a fact of life, regardless of the OS. Having said that, I only have 4 GB in my MBP, and have done some fairly resource-heavy stuff such as 16 simultaneous tracks of Multitrack Recording/Editing in Logic Pro, Editing Video in Final Cut Pro X, DVD Authoring in iDVD, etc. And I can't think of a time when I felt like I was in "Swap-File Hell" like with my work's Windows 7 laptop.

If you think you'd like to try out Linux to see if you REALLY like it better than OS X, you can certainly either setup Linux on a USB Drive and boot from that, or use Disk Utility to (non-destructively) Partition an (unused) area of your Hard Drive into another Volume and install a Linux on that. Then, you can hold down the "Option" key on Bootup, and be presented with a "Bootloader" that will easily let you start up in either Linux or OS X.

I have a 2010 Macbook Air. Performance did get worse with each update of OSX and I was told that El Capitan would be better but I didn't notice an improvement. Lately, Chrome has been burning up the machine which goes to 100% and full fans when opening more than a few tabs... some weird stuff there so I switched back to Firefox. My UI comments are in comparison to Linux (I haven't used Windows for 15 years). My reference to toy UI refers specifically to the "skeumorphic" UI which I find childish and counterproductive.

Now I KNOW you're lying!

For the last two or three major revs., OS X has almost completely removed the skeumorphic and "lickable" 3-D-ish design elements. In fact, Scott Forrestal was basically fired over the design war between his love of skeumorphic UI and Jonny Ive's love of "minimalism". Ive won. So, unless you are talking about certain design elements in Logic Pro, you will be hard pressed to find many skeumorphic applications in El Capitain.

I did enjoy Spotlight at first but for some reason later updates to it have made it almost useless. I used iMovie occasionally but, again updates made it confusing and difficult. I avoid iTunes like the plague but it (and iCloud) keep intruding.

You aren't very smart, are you?

Spotlight has actually gotten better, and they have improved the interface in El Capitan. But apparently you can't handle ANY change whatsoever.

As for iMovie, I disliked the new UI at first, but they actually SIMPLIFIED it. Once I messed around a little, and did a little online searching, I found that it is, overall, a little better than before. Having said that, I was pretty glad that Apple still offers iMovie HD 6 for download. Install that, and you will be right back to that old familiar iMovie.

Don't like iTunes? DELETE IT. Done. And the only time iCloud "intrudes" for me is at startup, when it prompts me for a password. I click "Cancel", and that's the last I EVER see of it. But, if you find even that too "intrusive", you can completely tell it to go away:

Adjusting iCloud Settings in El Capitan

Now wasn't that hard? It took me about 30 seconds on Google...

I appreciate OSX Unix roots but the substitution of the "Command" key for the standard Control key for some (but not all) functions is something that just keeps irritating me.

If you are referring to Cut/Copy/Paste/Undo/Redo, as a person that goes back and forth between OS X and Windows, that is the hardest thing to retrain. HOWEVER, you have it exactly backwards; those concepts ( and the keyboard shortcuts therto) actually ORIGINATED ON THE MAC in 1984 (and in fact, might even go further back to the Lisa). It is the OTHER OSes that COPIED THE CONCEPT, but didn't have the Mac's Command Key; so THEY Substituted the Control Key for Apple's Command Key.

Next time, learn some history...

And although you CAN reassign MOST keyboard shortcuts in OS X in the Keyboard Preference Pane in System Preferences, the shortcuts above are a bit more "intrinsic". HOWEVER, the last time I tried to do that was in OS X 10.2, so they might be more well-behaved at this point. having said that, the tool "Keyboard Maestro", while not free, could even reassign the "editing" keys; so you might want to check it out.

And actually, it is INDEED much easier now. You don't need Keyboard Maestro at all...

The "Finder" program has been inexplicably crashing since El Capitan. I just don't understand how they can screw up a simple basic file list.

Maybe because it is much more than that. You really ARE dull, aren't you?

I have a 2010 Macbook Air. Performance did get worse with each update of OSX and I was told that El Capitan would be better but I didn't notice an improvement. Lately, Chrome has been burning up the machine which goes to 100% and full fans when opening more than a few tabs... some weird stuff there so I switched back to Firefox. My UI comments are in comparison to Linux (I haven't used Windows for 15 years). My reference to toy UI refers specifically to the "skeumorphic" UI which I find childish and counterproductive.

Now I KNOW you're lying!

For the last two or three major revs., OS X has almost completely removed the skeumorphic and "lickable" 3-D-ish design elements. In fact, Scott Forrestal was basically fired over the design war between his love of skeumorphic UI and Jonny Ive's love of "minimalism". Ive won. So, unless you are talking about certain design elements in Logic Pro, you will be hard pressed to find many skeumorphic applications in El Capitain.

I did enjoy Spotlight at first but for some reason later updates to it have made it almost useless. I used iMovie occasionally but, again updates made it confusing and difficult. I avoid iTunes like the plague but it (and iCloud) keep intruding.

You aren't very smart, are you?

Spotlight has actually gotten better, and they have improved the interface in El Capitan. But apparently you can't handle ANY change whatsoever.

As for iMovie, I disliked the new UI at first, but they actually SIMPLIFIED it. Once I messed around a little, and did a little online searching, I found that it is, overall, a little better than before. Having said that, I was pretty glad that Apple still offers iMovie HD 6 for download. Install that, and you will be right back to that old familiar iMovie.

Don't like iTunes? DELETE IT. Done. And the only time iCloud "intrudes" for me is at startup, when it prompts me for a password. I click "Cancel", and that's the last I EVER see of it. But, if you find even that too "intrusive", you can completely tell it to go away:

Adjusting iCloud Settings in El Capitan

Now wasn't that hard? It took me about 30 seconds on Google...

I appreciate OSX Unix roots but the substitution of the "Command" key for the standard Control key for some (but not all) functions is something that just keeps irritating me.

If you are referring to Cut/Copy/Paste/Undo/Redo, as a person that goes back and forth between OS X and Windows, that is the hardest thing to retrain. HOWEVER, you have it exactly backwards; those concepts ( and the keyboard shortcuts therto) actually ORIGINATED ON THE MAC in 1984 (and in fact, might even go further back to the Lisa). It is the OTHER OSes that COPIED THE CONCEPT, but didn't have the Mac's Command Key; so THEY Substituted the Control Key for Apple's Command Key.

Next time, learn some history...

And although you CAN reassign MOST keyboard shortcuts in OS X in the Keyboard Preference Pane in System Preferences, the shortcuts above are a bit more "intrinsic". HOWEVER, the last time I tried to do that was in OS X 10.2, so they might be more well-behaved at this point. having said that, the tool "Keyboard Maestro", while not free, could even reassign the "editing" keys; so you might want to check it out.

And actually, it is INDEED much easier now. You don't need Keyboard Maestro at all...

The "Finder" program has been inexplicably crashing since El Capitan. I just don't understand how they can screw up a simple basic file list.

Maybe because it is much more than that. You really ARE dull, aren't you?

STOP THE PRESSES!!!

I don't mean to reply to my own comment; but Apple still sells the "non-Retina" MacBook Pros (which also still have DVD burners in them!) (and REPLACEABLE RAM!), and a choice of SSD or Spinning-Rust Drives up to 1TB (for an extra $50) (and they're easily replaceable, too!) for a STEAL! $1099 for the 13 inch.

Yeah, the display resolution kinda sucks compared with the Pixel2; but when you are not on the go, hook up an external monitor and rock-out with up to 2560 x 1600 (in addition to the built-in display). See this page for details.

I actually have the 15" version of this same-generation of MBP, and am QUITE happy with it. In fact, I specifically bought it because it had a real FireWire Port, PLUS ThunderBolt/MiniDisplayPort, PLUS Ethernet (and 802.11n WiFi), Plus Bluetooth 4.0, PLUS Analog Audio In/Out, PLUS Optical Audio In/Out, (actually, the 13" only has Analog/Optical OUT (although you can use an Apple Headset with microphone, so it MUST support Mic-In with a 4-cond. plug)), PLUS a Backlit Keyboard, PLUS USB 3.0, PLUS an SDXC Card Reader, with Replaceable RAM, Replaceable HD/SSD, and an integrated Optical Drive, Plus the hands-down (no pun) best Trackpad. IOW, what most people on here would consider a "whole computer".

I bought it with the minimum Drive and RAM configuration, with the express purpose of expanding them with 3rd party options. Something that is getting to be VERY rare these days, from ANY manufacturer. You can configure it with up to a 2.9 GHz i7, which I would recommend doing, if you want to "upgrade" anything BTO.

Soon (very soon!), the ONLY other way you are going to be able to find expandable RAM and Drive in ANY laptop is through the USED market...

How do the prices compare for a similar spec MacBook Pro? I was under the impression that MacBooks were more expensive, but to be honest I hadn't really considered running Linux on a Mac. I might consider that in future.

Well, MacBook Pros are more of a "computer" than the Pixel2; but if you want to compare the 13" MacBook Pro to the almost 13" Pixel2, the MacBook Pro with 8 GB RAM is the same price as the 16 GB Pixel2 ($1299); but the big difference comes in local Storage. The Pixel2 tops out at 64 GB of SSD (I have 2X that in my iPhone). I know, I know. You're supposed to use the Cloud for all storage (so Google can quietly sift through all your files!); whereas the 13" MBP has double the local storage (128 GB) at minimum, with BTO options to 1 TB.

And unlike the Chromebook, you can EASILY run Multiple OSes on a Mac. It's wonderful little built-in bootloader will let you easily dual-boot (or triple-boot, or quadruple-boot, or...?) into OS X, Linuces (plural), Windows, etc.; or just use VMWare Fusion or Parallels and run them CONCURRENTLY. Try THAT on a Chromebook!

So when you want to use best-in-class Applications such as Photoshop, MS Office, Final Cut, Logic Pro, ProTools, etc, etc. ET CETERA, that simply will never come to Linux, and which there are no real F/OSS equivalents (sorry guys!), you can do so. Again, that is simply NOT an option with a Chromebook.

And if I understand it correctly, if you install Linux on a Chromebook, you are saying Goodbye to ChromeOS (actually, through "crouton" (and a lot of finagling), you can dual-boot a Pixel into at least TWO of the Linux Distros (Arch and Mint); but with a MAXIMUM of 64 GB of local storage, isn't that more of a "Hey, I booted Linux on my Microwave!" sort of thing, than any sort of REASONABLE solution?). Besides, as to running anything OTHER than Chrome on a Chromebook, why buy half of a computer and then throw away the infrastructure (Google) that makes it (sort of) whole?

So, tell me, where's that keyboard on your fondleslab?

I thought so.

Why, right HERE, of course...

Google's Pixel is an exception to that. I've got a Pixel2 at work with 16G ram and is running an i7. (I run xUbuntu on it rather than ChromeOs though).

But it's also as expensive ($999 for 4 GB, $1299 for your 16GB model) as a MacBook (non-pro) ($999 with 8 GB), or a MacBook Air (which start out at $899 and TOP OUT at $1399, just $100 over the 16GB Pixel2), or heck, even the low-end Retina MacBook PRO is only $1299 (with 8 GB), ALL of which also are REAL computers, not just a glorified "thin client", that runs a REAL, Certified UNIX as its native OS (rather than a bastardized, cloud-bound, pseudo-Linux (which of course is a pseudo-UNIX)).

Why anyone would by a Pixel over a MacBook is beyond me, all brand-loyalty aside.

Google's Pixel is an exception to that. I've got a Pixel2 at work with 16G ram and is running an i7. (I run xUbuntu on it rather than ChromeOs though).

But it's also as expensive ($999 for 4 GB, $1299 for your 16GB model) as a MacBook (non-pro) ($999 with 8 GB), or a MacBook Air (which start out at $899 and TOP OUT at $1399, just $100 over the 16GB Pixel2), or heck, even the low-end Retina MacBook PRO is only $1299 (with 8 GB), ALL of which also are REAL computers, not just a glorified "thin client", that runs a REAL, Certified UNIX as its native OS (rather than a bastardized, cloud-bound, pseudo-Linux (which of course is a pseudo-UNIX)).

Why anyone would by a Pixel over a MacBook is beyond me, all brand-loyalty aside.

Google's Pixel is an exception to that. I've got a Pixel2 at work with 16G ram and is running an i7. (I run xUbuntu on it rather than ChromeOs though).

But it's also as expensive ($999 for 4 GB, $1299 for your 16GB model) as a MacBook (non-pro) ($999 with 8 GB), or a MacBook Air (which start out at $899 and TOP OUT at $1399, just $100 over the 16GB Pixel2), or heck, even the low-end Retina MacBook PRO is only $1299 (with 8 GB), ALL of which also are REAL computers, not just a glorified "thin client", that runs a REAL, Certified UNIX as its native OS (rather than a bastardized, cloud-bound, pseudo-Linux (which of course is a pseudo-UNIX)).

Why anyone would by a Pixel over a MacBook is beyond me, all brand-loyalty aside.

In addition to Apple's own retail stores, Apple partners with franchised stores called Apple Authorized Resellers. For example, Fort Wayne, Indiana, is 90 miles away from an Apple-owned retail store in Mishawaka, but the city has two franchisees: Signature Mac on the north side and Simply Mac on the west side.

Dividends *restarted* then. There were also dividends in the 80s & 90s.

http://investor.apple.com/divi...

Where does it end?

Here.

...and it wants its Trademark back!

You know I used to defend Apple against these accusations. I've been using their products since the 80s. But ever iOS took off and Ive took over OS X, stability seems to have taken a back seat to the shiny new interface and integration between the two.

Right now I am still having issues with Time Machine that have been around for years. And that's their backup solution! You know, the one that's supposed to make sure you're safe? Oh, and good luck finding support for Time Machine on their website. Want a laugh? Go to their Communities page.

https://discussions.apple.com/...

Let's see on the main page there is a section for iLife, which they stopped making years ago. But let's just look at the Mac OS and System software group for Time Machine. Hum, not there. But you can get help on Front Row, another app they stopped making years ago (side note, why is Photos in here?). Well lets check the Applications group. Appleworks, iChat, and iCal. All apps Apple stopped making.

I could go on, but look around that page. Try to find a place to get support on Time Machine. How long has it been since they updated it? It takes 4 clicks to get there from apple.com. Has no one noticed? Oh, and don't get me started on Final Cut Pro X...

"Restrict App Store to MDM installed apps and software updates only":

Do you not need an OSX Server to do that though? Fewer people have those than have Windows 10 Enterprise licenses.

I mean even Microsoft has a very simple solution involving Active Directory and Windows 10 Enterprise licensing. Its there its just not cheap.

Yes, it does need OS X server, which since Mavericks is a $20 add on to OS X - OS X server is no longer a separate OS you install. Instead it's just an addon (which doesn't really add anything other than some really nice configuration utilities).

Or other MDM solution - Apple's is but just one to manage devicevs. The same server app can also be used to configure iOS devices for the enterprise as well.

I doubt Microsoft's Enterprise versions of Windows is merely a $20 addon to the existing OS... you probably h ave to install a special Server version of the OS.

Heh, thanks for reminding me why we needed a disinfectant

Between this and iTunes failing even in the most basic task of playing music, I wonder why anyone still uses Apple music services.

They need a new mac pro tower (the new one sucks and they are at risk of losing a big part of the creative market) and better laptops (stop going for thin)

Define "need".

Because the Mac Pro, along with the Mac Mini, are the worst selling Macs in the entire lineup. And not because they're several years old - even the towers were poor sellers, and even when it was new and hot and fairly competitive it was still h0-hum sales.

It's one of the reasons they could afford to build it all in the US - it probably only sells in the US to any significant degree, and quantities are low enough that they can just hire some local CM to make a run of 10,000 to last the year.

The only reason they keep it alive is because of the professionals who demand they have something for them. And they probably only update it when they start demanding that their company is needing to replace them as it's part of the 3 year upgrade cycle.

Specifically fundamental parts being serviceable! RAM, M.2 SSD, and the battery should be replaceable post warranty expiration; especially for the high cost of the laptop in the first place.

The battery is replaceable post-warranty. Apple has a battery replacement program for all their laptops (and really, $200 is quite reasonable when replacement batteries generally cost $100-150 for most laptops - not NOS crap, but new) or do it yourself, which only requires the skill in finding an appropriate screwdriver. (If you can't figure out where to get such a screwdriver, you don't have the skills to replace the battery. It's not a tall barrier, but it's enough of one to keep Joe Average with a butter knife from wrecking his laptop).

Remember this?

Apple's got a security feature where the phone verifies all components of the fingerprint-security system installed on the thing today are the ones that were installed yesterday since iOS9, much to the chagrin of the poor fuckers who got some part of the system repaired by non-Apple shops prior to iOS9. They fixed that on 9.3, but I doubt hacking the system is actually non-trivial.

On the other hand, to get a warrant all you need is a) a limited area to search (such as a phone), b) a reason to search it (aka: "probable cause"), and c) a LEO to swear that b) is true to a Judge via "oath or affirmation."

Googled "ITunes Cpu Usage" and that confirmed that I am not the only person with this problem (And I've had it on every PC I've used ITunes on).
https://discussions.apple.com/...
https://discussions.apple.com/...
https://discussions.apple.com/...
https://discussions.apple.com/...
I also find that it leaves 2 or 3 services running, that kill performance of the PC, when you have neither ITunes running nor the ipod plugged in.
Why am I -1 Troll? XD You are free to keep using your shitty overpriced fanboy hardware and software, enjoy wasting flops on nothing.

Googled "ITunes Cpu Usage" and that confirmed that I am not the only person with this problem (And I've had it on every PC I've used ITunes on).
https://discussions.apple.com/...
https://discussions.apple.com/...
https://discussions.apple.com/...
https://discussions.apple.com/...
I also find that it leaves 2 or 3 services running, that kill performance of the PC, when you have neither ITunes running nor the ipod plugged in.
Why am I -1 Troll? XD You are free to keep using your shitty overpriced fanboy hardware and software, enjoy wasting flops on nothing.

Googled "ITunes Cpu Usage" and that confirmed that I am not the only person with this problem (And I've had it on every PC I've used ITunes on).
https://discussions.apple.com/...
https://discussions.apple.com/...
https://discussions.apple.com/...
https://discussions.apple.com/...
I also find that it leaves 2 or 3 services running, that kill performance of the PC, when you have neither ITunes running nor the ipod plugged in.
Why am I -1 Troll? XD You are free to keep using your shitty overpriced fanboy hardware and software, enjoy wasting flops on nothing.

Googled "ITunes Cpu Usage" and that confirmed that I am not the only person with this problem (And I've had it on every PC I've used ITunes on).
https://discussions.apple.com/...
https://discussions.apple.com/...
https://discussions.apple.com/...
https://discussions.apple.com/...
I also find that it leaves 2 or 3 services running, that kill performance of the PC, when you have neither ITunes running nor the ipod plugged in.
Why am I -1 Troll? XD You are free to keep using your shitty overpriced fanboy hardware and software, enjoy wasting flops on nothing.

That's because the exciting stuff isn't happening at the consumer level it's happening at the engineering level.

You're right. But unless you watch the WWDC Keynote, you don't even get to know about those advances, even by Apple.

Here's a nice little PDF just about the changes in El Capitan http://images.apple.com/osx/all-features/pdf/osx_elcapitan_core_technologies_overview.pdf

Thanks!

That's what I was looking for, but couldn't find for some reason. I was trying to establish a pattern showing that Apple does LOTS of stuff for each major release of OS X, and a good bit of it is entirely "under-the-hood".

So, with that in mind, here is the same PDF for other recent versions of OS X:

Yosemite

Mavericks

Mountain Lion

That's all I could find in a 5 minute search; but you get the idea.

That's because the exciting stuff isn't happening at the consumer level it's happening at the engineering level.

You're right. But unless you watch the WWDC Keynote, you don't even get to know about those advances, even by Apple.

Here's a nice little PDF just about the changes in El Capitan http://images.apple.com/osx/all-features/pdf/osx_elcapitan_core_technologies_overview.pdf

Thanks!

That's what I was looking for, but couldn't find for some reason. I was trying to establish a pattern showing that Apple does LOTS of stuff for each major release of OS X, and a good bit of it is entirely "under-the-hood".

So, with that in mind, here is the same PDF for other recent versions of OS X:

Yosemite

Mavericks

Mountain Lion

That's all I could find in a 5 minute search; but you get the idea.

That's because the exciting stuff isn't happening at the consumer level it's happening at the engineering level.

You're right. But unless you watch the WWDC Keynote, you don't even get to know about those advances, even by Apple.

Here's a nice little PDF just about the changes in El Capitan http://images.apple.com/osx/all-features/pdf/osx_elcapitan_core_technologies_overview.pdf

Thanks!

That's what I was looking for, but couldn't find for some reason. I was trying to establish a pattern showing that Apple does LOTS of stuff for each major release of OS X, and a good bit of it is entirely "under-the-hood".

So, with that in mind, here is the same PDF for other recent versions of OS X:

Yosemite

Mavericks

Mountain Lion

That's all I could find in a 5 minute search; but you get the idea.

That's because the exciting stuff isn't happening at the consumer level it's happening at the engineering level.

You're right. But unless you watch the WWDC Keynote, you don't even get to know about those advances, even by Apple.

Here's a nice little PDF just about the changes in El Capitan http://images.apple.com/osx/all-features/pdf/osx_elcapitan_core_technologies_overview.pdf

Thanks!

That's what I was looking for, but couldn't find for some reason. I was trying to establish a pattern showing that Apple does LOTS of stuff for each major release of OS X, and a good bit of it is entirely "under-the-hood".

So, with that in mind, here is the same PDF for other recent versions of OS X:

Yosemite

Mavericks

Mountain Lion

That's all I could find in a 5 minute search; but you get the idea.

The paper you linked is also not relevant to this particular case as it's about iOS9 and later.

Here's the predecessor from Feb 2014: https://www.apple.com/euro/iphone/business/b/generic/docs/iOS_Security_Feb14.pdf - IOW up to iOS 7. Not much difference, because the encryption is done in hardware.

Ohh, and Apple has been telling people to use more than 4-digit passcodes for years. The fact that the shooter only used 4 digit just proves he had nothing to hide on that stupid phone.

That's because the exciting stuff isn't happening at the consumer level it's happening at the engineering level.

You're right. But unless you watch the WWDC Keynote, you don't even get to know about those advances, even by Apple.

Here's a nice little PDF just about the changes in El Capitan http://images.apple.com/osx/all-features/pdf/osx_elcapitan_core_technologies_overview.pdf

I doubt that Apple wants to do that since it is not all that interested in the enterprise market.

That's not exactly true. They just aren't interested in the SERVER market. But in the past few years, they have taken a renewed and serious interest in the enterprise market overall.

Dig down into this deceptively-fluffy page. There's actually a lot of information there.

Easy, go to some decent on-line place and look at regular 15" etc. laptops, NOT crapblets, tablatops and netbooks and i7 netbooks. Most have RJ45 etc. and a couple DRAM slots. Rotating hard drives still widespread but you may not get one, or repurpose it as external back up. Even HDD + SSD is an option (out of the box). Get Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, perhaps Acer then the power connector is a universal featureless round one too.

But, as I said, those are last-generation designs. Anything NEW coming out of most, if not all, laptop mfgs. WILL have Soldered-In RAM. Apparently, in the Wintel world, it is even DICTATED by Microsoft for some sort of "Sleep/Standby" standard (name escapes me) that has existed since Windows 8 to prevent "cold boot attacks".

And since Apple also OFFICIALLY supports Windows (through BootCamp), I would bet that that weighed into their decision to switch to soldered RAM.

So, curiously enough, if you're looking for the REAL "bad guy" when it comes to the universal switch to Soldered RAM (in both the Mac and Wintel worlds), look no farther than MICROSOFT, not Apple.

Jus' Sayin'...

Well, in this sense "Android phone" is a misnomer. Unlike with iPhones there is no centralized, controlled way for Android phones to exist. But I'll address a few things you might be referring to.

AOSP (the Android base) uses the Linux kernel, which has a mature implementation of the standardized dm-crypt subsystem for encryption. AOSP implemented use of dm-crypt in 2010 with version 2.3. Apple wasn't encrypting user data until 2015 with iOS8. In fact, Apple had a well documented policy of co-operating with law enforcement requests (see: section I) until they developed new security measures in iOS8 in an attempt to absolve themselves of responsibility. A responsibility they willingly take on with the provisions in their EULA that explicitly state: they own iOS and you do not.

What you might be referring to is hardware encryption vs. software encryption. Since the AES cipher is a mathematical formula there is no inherent benefit of using it via a hardware circuit, or through software. The only benefit of hardware encryption is that it's immune to parallel brute force attacks, and it can artificially slow down the brute force attempt interval through it's circuitry. This is only a measurable benefit for systems secured with complex passwords, of which phones typically are are not. Because of this, Apple relies on firmware measures on it's chips to artificially increase brute force intervals with a failed attempt counter, and to activate a kill switch on too many attempts. Because this is a software measure it is subvert-able in the same ways all software measures (dm-crypt) are - simply by modifying the software. In an attempt to solve this, Apple has used a SecureBoot bootloader that will only accept software modifications signed with the Apple private key. This means that Apple has an exclusive back door into their own system, a problem you have correctly identified in your signature. A back door that Apple has, can be accessed by law enforcement through subpoena's, could be unknowingly leaked, or could be shared with other private enterprise. In security circles we call this "security through obscurity". It is a false sense of security, at best. Furthermore, Apple's implementation is proprietary. While dm-crypt is a mature industry-wide standard that has the potential for 8 billion code reviews, the Apple encryption implementation is known to only a handful of Apple engineers. This makes it inherently prone to security exploits, and also prone to those exploits remaining secret when discovered. This arguably makes the Apple's hardware encryption system altogether less secure. In fact, it is possible that a security exploit was used by the FBI to break into the San Bernandino phone, even if it was using a strong password.

Finally, what you might be referring to is the idiotic notion that all data *should* be encrypted. Encryption methods have been around for 60 years, and personal computers have been around for over 30. There's a reason most computer systems aren't encrypted by default and that's simply because in 99.9999% of cases it causes more problems than it solves. It is much more common to have hardware damage or failure that requires you to mount and rescue data externally, than to have a use case where your data is important enough to be encrypted. Because of this, encryption is always seen as optional element for data that a user can activate should they chose to. Android phones making encryption an option is a far more sound practice than turning it on by default.

So ultimately the iPhone encryption implementation is using closed standards, is less secure, and far less convenient. Please, please Google - please don't follow suit.

Sigh. The encryption methods haven't changed in years. iOS devices have had these features for multiple generations. You can read the iOS Security Paper from February 2014 to confirm this. It starts on page 8.

Know how I can tell you've never read the iOS Security Paper and have no actual knowledge of how iOS encryption works?

Because you think a 4 digit numeric passcode is the only thing that makes up the securely generated AES 256 encryption key. It's not. At all.

Here's the iOS Security Paper. The relevant section begins on page 10. Read it. Understand it. Then review your original comment and learn how many fundamental mistakes you made.

They even recycled old Samsung ideas like the large screen, much to the desperately-ignored hypocrisy of their rabid fans that spent years decrying "I don't need a big phone, I can use mine with one hand!".

Some people do seem to prefer larger phones, but those "rabid fans" are probably the reason why Apple was basically forced to make the 4" iPhone SE.

In the last keynote that talked very briefly about the "new Mac mini", they listed some bullet points:
- 4th-gen Intel Core processors
- Intel Iris and HD Graphics 5000
- PCIe-based flash storage
- 802.11ac Wi-Fi
- Two Thunderbolt 2 ports

Imagine my surprise when the low-end model was only running at 1.4GHz, but my complete shock that not all models had PCIe-based flash storage. In fact, the low-end and mid-range models not only have a much slower hard disk drive but they're slow 5400-rpm drives.

For the prices that Apple are asking for the Mac minis, the low-end should have come with 128GB, the mid-range with 256GB and the high-end with 512GB.

There's also another Keynote when they introduced an update to one of their existing laptops and they started with buzzwords like "cutting edge" or "revolutionary" but then the main feature was that it was a bit thinner than the previous model. This is completely useless, we are at a point where there is no benefit at all to making things thinner. The size should stay the same and they should increase battery life, CPU and GPU power, put more RAM in the damn things, etc.

The SIF will be loaded on the SUBJECT DEVICE at either a government facility, or alternatively, at an Apple facility; if the latter, Apple shall provide the government with remote access to the SUBJECT

The actual court order makes several attempts to insist the process only affects this one device, even explicitly suggesting Apple build a sanitized lab and give the FBI remote access, with monetary compensation.

So undoubtedly it's you that has bought the narrative. It's you, and many others that have believed the hyperbole and misinformation without verifying the facts. Apple is playing a political game here. A game intended to sell more phones, as is their duty to their shareholders, and their only duty. The last entity I would ever assume is on my side is private enterprise.

The four main features in Outlook are Mail, Contacts, Calendar, and Notes, but for some reason apps like this don't support Notes. It's the same on my iPhone 6 Plus, I have to use a 3rd party app to sync Notes with Exchange.