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Wasn't that Iridium's business model? It didn't do Motorola a whole lotta good, either, even after they bought a $2B system from $25M.

woof.

If we all save the money we aren't spending on condoms, we could buy AOL/T-W next year! Or not, when you look at the bucks Rusty's raking in.

Don't forget that if you have a URL, you can do a back-content search at the Wayback Machine. I don't have time to see if Bernie's website ever had any content on it, though--got to get to work. So I'll leave that joy to someone else.

why?

Here is how they looked in 1998, when hope was dawning. http://web.archive.org/web/19980101-19981231re_/ht tp://be.com

U.S. Patent No. 5,790,790 for the "Electronic Document Delivery System in which Notification of Said Electronic Document is Sent to a Recipient Thereof."
If you have a look at the this link:
Bluemountain.com already had this in place back 12/1998! How did they ever get the patient application approved?

The company I helped found in 1995 started doing this in December 1995, with a launch in February 1996. It was an internet greeting card site, and included such AMAZING features as e-mail notification of a new card to a recipient, and an e-mail to the sender when the card was viewed. The Internet Archive has an archive of the page as it was in December 1996 at:

http://web.archive.org/web/19961226182315/http://w ww.cardclub.com/

Anyway, if anyone is challenged by this in court, let me know. I'm sure I can dig out all sorts of documentation that predates the filing dates of the patents in question.

I remember the last so-called Apple product fake - the G4 Cube. The now-defunct site The Mac Junkie claimed that the leaked photo of the Cube was an utter fabrication. He gave some "evidence" of why he thought he was right, such as "Photoshop fingerprints."

Courtesy of archive.org's cached copy: "To conclude, I will eat my hat if Jobs unveils this very machine tomorrow. No, wait - I'll eat my hockey puck mouse."

The following morning, after Jobs announced it at MacWorld, the site went down temporarily and then permanently not long after. Oh well!

Ian

This aside, it might not be impossible to get a stock Lisa 2 (or even a Lisa 1!) on the net. Microsoft (if you can believe it) had a version of Xenix for both Lisa models. One could potentially program some "http server" that operates over one of the serial lines or perhaps do something more baroque than that (e.g. implement serial line PPP+web server in user mode).

If someone can find me a copy of Xenix on 5.25" Twiggy media and a spare ProFile external HD (5 megabytes!), I'll put my Lisa 1 on the net. Yes, I own one.

I used to have a webpage about the Lisa. The server that held it (a 386) suffered an untimely demise after another administrator ran rm -rf /. Fortunately, you can still view the old content online with the help of the Internet Archive. Go here and here to see some of the old content.

The Apple Lisa Web Page will return someday, I promise...

--Tom

This aside, it might not be impossible to get a stock Lisa 2 (or even a Lisa 1!) on the net. Microsoft (if you can believe it) had a version of Xenix for both Lisa models. One could potentially program some "http server" that operates over one of the serial lines or perhaps do something more baroque than that (e.g. implement serial line PPP+web server in user mode).

If someone can find me a copy of Xenix on 5.25" Twiggy media and a spare ProFile external HD (5 megabytes!), I'll put my Lisa 1 on the net. Yes, I own one.

I used to have a webpage about the Lisa. The server that held it (a 386) suffered an untimely demise after another administrator ran rm -rf /. Fortunately, you can still view the old content online with the help of the Internet Archive. Go here and here to see some of the old content.

The Apple Lisa Web Page will return someday, I promise...

--Tom

So if my plans don't materialize because I'm cheap, broke, and hate to drive (especially on New Years Eve), I'll dig up every episode of MST3K I have, and ring in the New Year with a John Carradine movie and a Jam Handy short.

Notice the presence of 'Star Trek: First Contact' at no. 7 (!) above Casablanca in 1996. Now it is nowhere to be seen on the 250. Also 'Trainspotting' has fallen further down the list. Both these movies were in release around the time the poll was made. Who remembers 'Lone Star' now?

If you follow the imdb 250, a new movie shooting into the top ten happens all the time. It's nice to see this movie up there but don't assume too much from the rating just yet.

try the internet archiving project @ archive.org

It depends on what you mean by portable. If a laptop is "portable", then you can run SNES, old dos games, NES, gameboy, SEGA, PS2, etc. emulators on your laptop.

If you mean a gameboy is portable, it's only a few more iterations until we get there. Right now, I run PocketNes and it works great! Genesis and Lynx emulators also exist. I haven't tried Lynx but the Genesis one is still too slow. If you are willing to run Linux on your iPaq, you can run SNES. As for people who want XT, there is even an 80186 emulator! That means you can run DOS on top of WinCE! They even have screenshots of Windows 3.0 running on a PocketPC.

In short, I am amazed at my iPaq. These things are actually powerful enough to be classified as PC's. These 200Mhz handhelds are what sat on desktops in 1997. Check out Gateway's homepage as of 1/1/1997, they are selling P166's.

Well, there is web.archive.org, which goes back to 1996.

Oh, and damn Worcesterhire County Council - there schools ISP (I'm a 6th former) thingy bans Google Groups (because there 'Usenet News').

Since my article submission is doomed for rejection, let me at least post some of extra stuff I had mentioned. First, check out the monolithic kernel debate between Andy and Linus for yourself. Second, in my article submission about Google, I also mentioned that Alexa now archives the Web, too. Try their Internet Archive Wayback Machine. I found they had an archive of my old WEBsurf magazine from 1997. Hilarious.

Since my article submission is doomed for rejection, let me at least post some of extra stuff I had mentioned. First, check out the monolithic kernel debate between Andy and Linus for yourself. Second, in my article submission about Google, I also mentioned that Alexa now archives the Web, too. Try their Internet Archive Wayback Machine. I found they had an archive of my old WEBsurf magazine from 1997. Hilarious.

Slashdotted... so web.archive.org to the rescue!

http://web.archive.org/web/20011201213554/http://e cg.media.mit.edu/

-- Yoz

You know.. I just thought of something. There is the WayBack Machine which lets you get past copies of ANY website. Do you think one could get a copy of the DOI and get cached copies of the data, or some such stuff?

Check http://www.archive.org/ -- a legitimate site that uses DivX 3.

• The Google Search Engine
• The Wayback Machine www.archive.org historical archive
• Anonymizer.com and similar privacy services (some free, some paid)
• thousands of web proxies around the world
• more web caching sites and software

The hard part is to find creative ways to get the public, and maybe the politicans, to understand what evil things the politicians are doing. I don't understand the local attitudes in your areas well enough to say what are the best ways to present your case. Some ideas I can think of:

• You are trying to research the evils that the Nazis did during the War, and you are trying to research the evils that remaining Nazis are doing today, and these internet censors are making it hard to locate the evildoers. Or you help organizations that watch Nazis to find them on the web, but the censorship makes it difficult.
• The censorship tools are forcing the current Nazis to use higher technology - bad enough that those partially-literate thugs are using the Internet, but now the censors are giving them a reason to learn more technology which they will use to organize their evil groups in secrecy, instead of more public locations where they can be found.
• Perhaps you have Internet services that you want to prevent Nazis from using, but it is difficult to identify the Nazis because of the censorship.
• Perhaps the censorship is hiding other things, not just Nazis - Former Stasi? Corruption? Lazy Police? The only way to know is to permit transparency.

HERF is an interesting weapon. The best web site about it I've found is http://www.codexdatasystems.com/herf.html , which is now unavailable, although you can view the entire archive of it at http://web.archive.org/web/20010814122813/http://w ww.codexdatasystems.com/herf.html.

You can look at hizbollah.org for one extreme of ideas (*I* can't, because my company's Censorware Firewall thinks that Hizbollah are Politically Incorrect and blocks them unless I use the Wayback Machine to get around it :-). Or you can look at a large number of much more typical web sites like LebanonAtlas.com aka Lebanon Online or Lebanon.com, a US-based site targeted at US Lebanese, or a bunch of sites in Arabic that I can't read :-)

One of the ways the web is really different from printed media is that pages have an implication of currentness and ownership, even when they say otherwise. Unlike a newspaper publisher that A) cannot possibly recall all issues of a screwed up edition and B) no longer owns the physical copies of the paper that have been sold to the public, webmasters can always take down a page, and in fact must continue to provide the page in order for it to be available. That proactive providing of the page might to some people imply that archivers of any sort are responsible for the content.

This is slightly off-topic, but if the site has been taken down, it is most likely still viewable at The Internet Archive

Next time, post the URL so that we can view the page...

The website Wayback Machine allows you to see the way website looked in the past. For example:
macosx.forked.net in September or
slashdot.org from 1998.

The website Wayback Machine allows you to see the way website looked in the past. For example:
macosx.forked.net in September or
slashdot.org from 1998.

The website Wayback Machine allows you to see the way website looked in the past. For example:
macosx.forked.net in September or
slashdot.org from 1998.

among other stories listed for Dec 21, 1997 are:

• Netscape Behind?
• Linux 2.1.74 Released
• NSA Spying on Europe

Sounds the same to me!

among other stories listed for Dec 21, 1997 are:

• Netscape Behind?
• Linux 2.1.74 Released
• NSA Spying on Europe

Sounds the same to me!

Okay.. so here we have a media, television. It is only being recognized recently as a profound mode of expression, for instance by the archiving of TV that will be going on in massive scale at The Internet Archive

Constitutionally speaking, the right to collect, index and archive TV information any way you want to is equivalent to your right to read any book in a public library (which isn't always the case but that's another story...)

A lot of the time, there is something in a fleeting news broadcast or a commercial that is important in a future investigation. That's why lots of groups and people release information on TV that they want to have a short lifespan.

We have to keep this information. The internet is nowhere near as influential a news source as the television medium, especially in countries where computer ownership is less prevalent. By putting a charge on recording, TiVo seriously compromises our right to free speech.

Here is your chance to be a hero, start a company which acquires copyrights for stuff out of print, and no longer of commercial value, at that point you have every right to distribute this stuff as you choose. One such place (And I have done a lot of work for this place) is the Internet Moving Images Archive. for the most part, places such as OLGA are not doing the ground work to acquire the copyrights, although it looks like they are going to start an legal archive of tablature that has copyrights that allow open distribution, that is a good thing. I don't think that art needs to be commercial, my own art is paid for by me and posted around the city for everyone to enjoy, I have been offered money but turned it down, that was MY choice. Make your own art and you can choose what to do with it. The Harry Fox Agency has been selling their own Tabs for years (1920s or earlier), they didn't just try to get into the act after someone else. See Steve Albini's rant on the music industry, the Publishing Advance, that is from someone such as the Harry Fox Agency, that is one of the few positives in the whole thing.

Now, I'm no expert, but a quick Google search turned up the following things, which may or may not be of any use as prior art.

'It was here a minute ago!' - Archiving on the Net - Part 1 of 2: "The Internet Archive [http://www.archive.org/] ... also uses an 'MD5 checksum' to compare new pages with old ones." The article is copyright 1997, and the Archive has been crawling since 1996.

IBM Agent Building Environment Developer's Toolkit: this manual, also copyrighted 1997, is documentation for using IBM's Java-based toolkit for writing automated agents, say, page-comparing and caching agents. Conveniently enough, they provide the following function: CheckMonitoredPagesForChanges, which states, "This effector will check all the web pages on the monitored-pages list for changes in the page... This function uses a checksum method against the content of the HTTP request to 'compare' the page content. Any difference in the checksums, or any change in the Last-Modified date in the HTTP header (if it exists), will cause a 'change' to be detected."

WebGUIDE: Querying and Navigating Changes in Web Repositories: This is an AT"T research paper. "The AIDE version repository is a centralized service that archives versions of pages... AIDE maintains a relational database containing meta-data about each page, each user, and the relationships between them. For each URL, it stores the following (among other information): Last modification date: This is used to find pages that have been modified since a user saw them... Checksum: This is used in case the last modification date is unavailable." This document is copyright 1993, 1994.

Another interesting note, is that Puma started out making synching software. They didn't acquire NetMind, what I'd gather would be the impetus for this patent, until 2000, over six years after that last AT"T URL, and PumaTech was founded.

--Vito

The coffee pot page is pretty much a 'milestone' in Internet history... I think it should be saved in the Internet Archive or some place similar to that. archive.org is already saving lots of old www pages in its archive.

The coffee pot page is pretty much a 'milestone' in Internet history... I think it should be saved in the Internet Archive or some place similar to that. archive.org is already saving lots of old www pages in its archive.

What will happen to the 'Net when the next big dotcomm to fall is eBay or Amazon, or Google? Especially since Google's USENET archive and WWW cache have become invaluable to a number of people.

Does this justify asking the government to step in and take over these resources so they are preserved for posterity as Frank Davies and many others have suggested or is would this be undue interference by the government?

I think that Google is the main contributor to the Internet Archive, a non-profit that holds teras and teras of Geocities pages.
__

Yes, exactly. Just a couple days ago there was the slashdot story on an Internet Movie Archive. The purpose of this archive is at least partly ephermal, [sp?] that is, recording that which is not intended as a "permanent record." For example, educational films and news reels can paint a more realistic, or complete, picture of a time past. USENET archives, perhaps, can be considered much the same thing. Of course, USENET is a very diffuse medium, low signal-to-noise ratio, but I still think this will be good.

Damn, too late to get modded up, I'm sure.

--

Or this one:

About Fallout (1955)
Sponsor: US Dept. of Defense
Attempt to dispel many common myths and fallacies about radioactive fallout.

All I can say is, put your head under your desk to avoid the radiation!

Just before I saw this article I was reading an article in the latest Linux Journal about the history of MPEG, an interesting read on video and audio compression.

Anyway, the site looks interesting enough. The files are big, to be sure. I'm downloading right now a movie shown to Cold-War elementary school children about atomic warfare.

My cable modem usually gets 50-100 K/sec, but I'm getting about 16 K/sec from this site. I think it's definately a candidate for several good mirrors if it gains any sort of popularity - the 10 min. movie is 246 MB.

The Internet Archive (www.archive.org) uses FreeBSD as the OS for its 10+ terabyte disk farm

Thanks for that link, I had never heard of that site before. But your information appears to be outdated:

- This link says that they use Linux to store all that data (with IDE hard drives, it's specified).
- This link says they use Linux for both access to the data (via ssh) and storage.

So it appears that they've switched OSes.

The Internet Archive (www.archive.org) uses FreeBSD as the OS for its 10+ terabyte disk farm

Thanks for that link, I had never heard of that site before. But your information appears to be outdated:

- This link says that they use Linux to store all that data (with IDE hard drives, it's specified).
- This link says they use Linux for both access to the data (via ssh) and storage.

So it appears that they've switched OSes.

The Internet Archive has been doing this for several years now. There was a scientific amer. article on this.

This is a very good idea, but frankly, I've found the Useless pages to be the best chronicle of the web. Everything, from the ate my balls pages, to the first spam sites, to the first annoying business pages, are listed in their raw earnest early form.

As for the aussie site, it suffers from the same disease as any govt. funded site - official seriousness. The most interesting and popular stuff on the net is not the crap put on the web by govt. commissions, but the output of real people. But this is all explained right on Pandora's site:

"At the beginning of 1996, before the PANDORA Project was formally set up, the Selection Committee on Online Australian Publications (SCOAP) developed selection guidelines"

The incredibly long and boring selection guidelines reveal that the SCOAP is out of touch with what the net's all about.

"4.1.1 To be selected for national preservation, a significant proportion of a work should

be written by an Australian(11) of recognised authority and constitute a contribution to international knowledge"

Yeah, that takes a realistic snapshot of what the web is like.

That says a lot - 4 yrs of committee work, and not much to show for it. Just goes to prove the govt. should stay out of anything to do with the net, including archiving it for historic reasons.

w/m

The Internet Archive has been doing this for several years now. There was a scientific amer. article on this.

This is a very good idea, but frankly, I've found the Useless pages to be the best chronicle of the web. Everything, from the ate my balls pages, to the first spam sites, to the first annoying business pages, are listed in their raw earnest early form.

As for the aussie site, it suffers from the same disease as any govt. funded site - official seriousness. The most interesting and popular stuff on the net is not the crap put on the web by govt. commissions, but the output of real people. But this is all explained right on Pandora's site:

"At the beginning of 1996, before the PANDORA Project was formally set up, the Selection Committee on Online Australian Publications (SCOAP) developed selection guidelines"

The incredibly long and boring selection guidelines reveal that the SCOAP is out of touch with what the net's all about.

"4.1.1 To be selected for national preservation, a significant proportion of a work should

be written by an Australian(11) of recognised authority and constitute a contribution to international knowledge"

Yeah, that takes a realistic snapshot of what the web is like.

That says a lot - 4 yrs of committee work, and not much to show for it. Just goes to prove the govt. should stay out of anything to do with the net, including archiving it for historic reasons.

w/m

The Internet Archive Project has Usenet archives from 1996-1998...it is a .5 terabyte collection, but it is currently all on tape. However, they STOPPED archiving Usenet in 1998. www.archive.org

The Internet Archive Project is the project attempting to archive the entire web and related internet contents as a matter of public record. They currently have around 15 terabytes in the archive.

Push them to resume archiving of Usenet, and to get their old stuff online from the tapes. This is HISTORY, people! Historians 50-100 years from now will be DIEING to look at this stuff, and won't be able to belive that we threw it all away, even though the cost of storing it was dropping exponentially.

I would kinda hope that my great-great-grandchildren could get to know me by reading some of my better usenet posts.

--Braddock Gaskill

Brewster Khale's Internet Archive has an archive of Usenet from 1996-1998, but they stopped for some reason (did they think Deja was doing a better job?). And it's only about 600 GB, so the disk space should be pretty cheap.

That, to me at least, begs the question of why do people need to apply for access at all? Let everybody have a crack at it ... after all, for many of them, it is their data you archived.

--------------------

Much of the content of the web relates to the growth of communications technology. You are limiting yourself severely if you are only thinking of the raw bandwidth connections. The growth of use of non-textual content, multimedia, and scripting languages and applets are all advances in communications technology.

From this page at the web site in question:

"Much of the content of the web relates to the growth of communications technology. You are limiting yourself severely if you are only thinking of the raw bandwidth connections. The growth of use of non-textual content, multimedia, and scripting languages and applets are all advances in communications technology".

So since they are currently only archiving ASCII text your point is irrelevent isn't it? They aren't demonstrating the development of communications technology at all, mereley the content on web pages.

Instead, you assumed he did, or were attempting to sidetrack the issue to make yourself look like the oppressed religious minority. This kind of behavior is what disgusts others. When people look at me, they see someone like you -- an arrogant, bigoted ass who sees the entire world as filled with evil sinners out to get them. It makes me sick.

Thanks to the efforts of liberals and atheists everywhere people, like myself, who hold with decent Christian ethics are oppressed and considered to be backward and out of touch with the modern world. Your post seems to indicate that you also believe in the Lord and follow the Bible, so I don't see how you can disagree with what I'm saying. The temptations of Evil are many in today's world, and if I choose to try and spread the Word, why is that considered to be such a bad thing?

Um.. Let me think. YES!! That's how historians have had to do it for ages. Should we ignore early American politics because it too was primarly run by white, middle-aged landowners?

That's what American history textbooks do, and they are hardly the most unbiased texts in the world are they? I can't remember where, but there's a book about how bad American history teaching and books are.

This kind of PC "1984" style of thought would have us ignore all of our history for the goals of delluding ourselves into thinking we're perfect. Well, we're not. Get over it, and start trying to figure out why.

Yes, I know you're not perfect, I never said you were.

Finally, the prima facie evidence of a troll. Someone you picks at the formatting rather than the content of the person they disagree with.

I think I'd already "picked" at the content of his post before I mentioned that. Sorry, but incorrect formatting makes a post harder to read and bugs me. Is that a crime? It might make me anal, but not a troll.

Besides, you should really preview and check your spelling before being so harsh. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

*Sigh* And so should you - "delluding", "condenscending" - we all make mistakes. After all, nobody, apart from our Lord, is perfect.

The goal is to get all publically available Web pages and their images. Technical and labor limitations prevent this from happening as yet, but we are working on it.

How much storage space is required for the whole web?

No one knows for sure, but the best estimates I've seen put it at about 20-30TB.

What software/OSes are they using for this project?

We've got got our own software running on Linux, although we are migrating to FreeBSD because of the 2GB file size limit. As a shameless plug, we are hiring!!

When do we get to see the archive?

We intend to provide access to researchers, scholars, historians, etc. Research proposals can be submitted here.

Kurt Bollacker
Technical Director, Internet Archive
kurt@archive.org

There is info on the side on how the archive is accessed, created, who pays for it, everything. Read it before you hit that post button another time.
---

Your estimates of hundreds of terabytes is way off. They say on their site that the whole archive including web pages from 1996-Current, and a limited ammount of FTP and Usenet is only ~14TB. That's not bad.

hm. my hosts file is preventing me from easily reading the whole CNN article, but here's an article about a possibly different company doing the same thing, dating back to 97:
http://Slate.msn.com/webhead/97-02-27/webhead.asp, the website itself is http://www.archive.org/.

The related Xerox project I think is merely affiliated with Archive.org, actually, and is currently called the Internet Ecologies project