Running A Web Server On An Apple Lisa 2

pinqkandi writes: "Saw this come along the MacHTTP discussion list; some one got an Apple Lisa 2 running a web server. Quite an impressive feat. Be quick to check it out - they expect to shut it down about 8am CST on 1/2/02."

Comments

/. Effect

[breon.halling]

Ah, poor Lisa 2... She couldn't stand the hits.

Re:/. Effect

[Anonymous Coward]

Shame the server went down.

I've been running MacHttp on a Quadra 605 LC just for kicks (http://avenue.capnasty.org:81) together with Gopher (cuz I'm lame) but I've also seen a Macintosh SE running as a web server (http://149.96.1.33/).

Sure, not as amazing as a Lisa, but still...

Re:/. Effect

[daniel_isaacs]

Makes me wonder: What is the oldest server (equipment age) that has been Slashdotted?

Re:/. Effect

[ncc74656]

Makes me wonder: What is the oldest server (equipment age) that has been Slashdotted?

Didn't someone have an Atari 800 hooked up through a terminal server and running a simple webserver written in BASIC? That would be older than this.

(It got /.'d all to hell, too.)

Re:/. Effect

[42forty-two42]

How DARE slashdot hit on her?

Down Already

[Super_Frosty]

No comments yet, and the server is already down.

How many more times do we have to /. some poor fool's web server?

Re:Down Already

[An IPv6 obsessed guy]

C'mon, it's a Lisa! It should be able to handle the load of a slashdotting. ...And for the next trick, Slashdot will knock down a small child and run away with her candy.

Re:Down Already

[atari2600]

I am a small child and i have already tricked /. - i left the candy at home and theres my big bad dad @Home.

Re:Down Already

[vegardolsen]

Bet my dad is bigger then your dad!
:D

Re:Down Already

[bubbaD]

with a name like atari2600 you must be old old old! Give us a break Grandpa!

Re:Down Already

[atari2600]

Old is gold my child - young pup this 2600 is meant to signify something else.

Slashdotted

[Henry V .009]

Not if we can't shut it down first!

Too late. I thought this would be pretty interesting, too.

Re:Slashdotted

[ergo98]

Really, can't you imagine that it worked? The more successful of an implementation it has, the more transparent and the least interesting it really should be: HTTP & TCP/IP are standards, and whether it's a Liza or a big piece of ratcrap with some neural nets going in it, the goal of web standards is that it's absolutely, postively irrelevant.

Correct IP address or is it shutdown already?

[Anonymous Coward]

see Subject :)

I expect it to shut down...

[Kefabi]

I expect it to shut down--...

Oh wait, nevermind.

Damned /. effect...

-Kef

Re:I expect it to shut down...

[Anonymous Coward]

god a spork that actually posted something coherent without a single gaping butthole reference.... I commend thee

Webservers

[sianide]

While it is neet to have a webserver on the apple Lisa2, I just wonder where its going to stop. What's next a Ti86 Calculator with a 10/100 nic and full web services?

Re:Webservers

[morcheeba]

Actually, try something with about the same power as a TI86. This was slashdotted about a year ago.

Re:Webservers

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually the TI86 is more powerful. It has a 6 mhz z80 and 128 KB of memory.

does that mean..

[lowtekneq]

does that mean that there is some chance of getting my atari 1400ST running apache?

Re:does that mean..

[Bake]

You might even get it slashdotted if you send in a story :)

Re:does that mean..

[morcheeba]

yes, sortof

Re:does that mean..

[Anonymous Coward]

next think you know, someone will come out with a web server running on an Apple 1.

Now THAT would be an accomplishment. Kinda like the old Ham radio challange, to see who can use the lowest transmitter power for the longest distance 2 way contact.

An I know who could just about do it.

Re:does that mean..

[Angst Badger]

Not if you let Slashdot know about it!

Re:does that mean..

[Anonymous Coward]

no but I just got http working on my TI and it's backed up to audio cassette tape just in case /. crashes it.

Re:does that mean..

[Anonymous Coward]

I cant believe this got a score. Aint no such machine as the Atari 1400ST.

Re:does that mean..

[Anonymous Coward]

He proabably meant 1040ST.

Re:does that mean..

[Anonymous Coward]

what model is it and can you give more info?

Re:does that mean..

[gpinzone]

Absolutely not. Why? Because there was no such thing as the 1400 ST. Now a 1040 ST...there's a possibilty. I think you'll need to format the floppy to 82 tracks with 10 sectors per track in order to fit Apache on it.

Re:does that mean..

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah but there was an Atari 1400XL that was mostly vaporware, adding the ST to the end of 1400 in the mind of an 8-bitter is unacceptable.

Re:does that mean..

[Anonymous Coward]

it will also fit on the Syquest 44 meg removeable cartridge, scsi style prob long before any consumer pc's had it.

Ok?

[Anonymous Coward]

Many of us will see this as hard work and ingenuity on the part of the people who hacked together this webserver. How many here will try to twist this into some kind of example of why "Apple's great because even their 17 year old hardware can be used a webserver" ?

I remember a few years back the guys ar l0pht had a mac plus (the lisa's younger brother) running as a web server. And some sick people actually made an Apple ][ into a web server.

Re:Ok?

[mgblst]

Ill be impressed when someone gets their watch to run a web server... not the digital kind either.

Oh really?

[awallgren]

Netcraft says it's running Solaris...

Re:Oh really?

[Inthewire]

"Netcraft says it's running Solaris."

From the Netcraft FAQ:

Why do you report impossible operating system/server combinations ?

Webservers that operate behind a caching system, load balancer, reverse proxy server or a firewall may sometimes report the operating system of the intermediate machine. Hence reports of 'Microsoft/IIS on Linux' may indicate that either the web server is behind a Linux server that is acting as a reverse proxy, or has configured the Akamai caching system such that the first request to the site goes to one of Akamai's servers [which run Linux], or as in the case of www.walmart.com has been configured to send a misleading signature.

I don't know that this is necessarily the case, but it may have bearing on the matter.

Re:Oh really?

[evilviper]

I once had netcraft tell me a server was a FreeBSD box running IIS... Now I'm not saying it was wrong but...

Re:Oh really?

[Billly Gates]

WOW, not only did they write a web daemon for the lisa2 but they actually ported solaris and apache. :-)

Re:Oh really?

[mccalli]

Netcraft says it's running Solaris...

Ye gods, this is a more impressive feat than we thought. They've ported Solaris to a Lisa 2...?

Cheers,
Ian

Never stood a chance...

[wizzy403]

Poor Lisa... The slashdot effect has taken out server arrays in the past, what chance did it have?

Slashdot overdrive

[MadCamel]

Most older IP stacks for Apples have a low amount of available sockets, such as 16 or 32. Once those are all being used, the machine can no longer accept connections.. Thus this link suffered instant slashdot. Good job!

Re:Slashdot overdrive

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, are you suggesting that the Lisa *has* an Apple supplied IP stack? Very few machines in 1983 could speak IP and I doubt the Lisa was one of them (i'd be very surprised at least).

Tom

Re:Slashdot overdrive

[seanadams.com]

According to this it's running System 7.01 and MacTCP 2.01.

I'm surprised software this recent even runs on Lisa. My Mac history is a little rusty, but IIRC, System 7 came out around the same time as the first 68030 Macs were introduced. How's that for backward compatibility?

Re:Slashdot overdrive

[bnenning]

How's that for backward compatibility?

The Mac Plus was even better, it used a 68000 and can run up to System 7.5.5, which was released when PowerPC 604 Macs were out.

Re:Slashdot overdrive

[cutterjohn]

bzzzt

wrong answer!

My original IIcx came with 6.0.x (5? 4?), and a few other 68030 models followed with (ci, si) with 6.0.x variants.

now, I have to admit that I don't recall what model that system 7 came out with, but it was still great. A full OS (to 7.1) that could fit onto a 1.4M floppy w/a decent GUI. Aaaahhh, I still remember the cx getting almost as good performance as the Sun IPCs w/matlab... hacking random crap with resedit & co. ... flakey power supplies, but I digress...

...and on an actually on-topic note, I ran across an Atari 800 (IIRC) running a web server a few years ago...

and I also seem to recall a PIC chip based server the size of a matchbox or quarter, which actually had a slashdot article. Must've been, oh 3 or so year back when people were PIC chip happy. ($100 dev kits and all...)

Re:Slashdot overdrive

[Anonymous Coward]

With all the mods the Lisa is running it is essentially a very fast (18MHz) Mac Plus. I don't think there's anything really too exciting about getting that to run a web server.

Re:Slashdot overdrive

[SocietyoftheFist]

just how big was the ROM? Hint, the whole of what you were seeing wasn't coming soley from a 1.44MB floppy.

Re:Slashdot overdrive

[Chris Mattern]

Lisa 2 didn't have a 1.44MB floppy, it had a
400K 3.5" floppy. But you could get it with a
10MB hard disk, which they probably have.

Chris Mattern

Re:Slashdot overdrive

[SocietyoftheFist]

Brainfart on my part. Nevertheless, the whole OS wasn't on the floppy, the rom on that machine was 256k as I recall.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Did you hear that?

[tunah]

That was the sound of a lisa 2 exploding.

Re:Did you hear that?

[ymgve]

Not offtopic.

Stupid, stupid moderators.

Nice.

[Matt2000]

This has got to be one of the best slashdot linkages in recent memory. How do you expect anyone to see this reeking Lisa 2 thing if people with pretty major servers go under when slashdot links to them?

"Hey guys, check this out, some guy has managed to wire up an ethernet cable to his parrot's brain, they say if they get over 200 hits/hour his legs will explode. Anyway, here's the link."

NICE.

Re:Nice.

[darkov]

Exactly. Apple bashing has reached a new low here at Slashdot when the editors take to slashdotting a poor, defenceless Lisa 2. After this trauma it may never serve a page again. It probably won't even boot up. Poor thing.

Re:Nice.

[child_of_mercy]

Now if they can get the parrots brain to stream a live webcast of itself..

then u'd really get some page imprints as the thing reach critical mass...

Re:Nice.

[singularity]

Not only that, but it is connected to the Internet via an iMac with a 56k modem. Slashdot will easily saturate that line with requests alone.

Kill the computer and the Internet connection (and probably the iMac doing the routing)

Re:Nice.

[Anonymous Coward]

Important: A message to all the trolls out there!

[Hmm, yeah
This just one of them days when yo' ass just wanna chill out and troll
and motherfuckers moderators be all in yo' ear and shit, yknowhatI'msayin?
Or that naggin bitch, that just like to hear herself talk
blowin all yo' troll away
Now that's some fucked up shit, heh
but it happens, yknowhatI'msayin?]

Note: to the beat of Limp Bizkit's "Rollin".

Chocolate Pud and the Hot Dog Flavored Jizz

Trollin' (Air Raid Vehicle)

Alright partner
Keep on trollin' baby
You know what time it is

Throw your hands up
Ladies and gentlement
Chocolate Pud
Keep on trolling baby

Move in, now move out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now
Breath in, now breath out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now

Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
What?
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Come on!
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Yeah

Now I know y'all be lovin' this shit right here
Anon Coward is right here
People in the house put them hands in the air
Cuz if you don't care, then we don't care
1 2 3 times two to the six
Jolts in for your fix with the Goatse mix
So where the fuck you at?
Punk, shut the fuck up
And back the fuck up
While we fuck this track up

Throw your hands up

Move in, now move out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now
Breath in, now breath out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now

Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
What?
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Come on
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Yeah

You wanna mess with Anon Coward? (Yeah)
You cant mess with Anon Coward (why?)
Because we get it on (when?)
Every day and every night (oh)
See this crapflood thing right here? (uh huh)
Well we're doing it all the time (what?)
So you'd better get some better beats
And uh, get some better rhymes (d'oh!)
We got the gang set
So don't complain yet
24/7 never begging for a raincheck
Old school soldiers passing up the hot shit
That rock shit
And bounce in the mosh pit

Throw your hands up

Move in, now move out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now
Breath in, now breath out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now

Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Come on
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
What?
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Yeah

Hey ladies
Hey fellas
And the people that don't give a fuck
All the lovers
All the haters
And all the people that call themselves players
Hot mommas
Pimp daddies
And the people rolling up in caddies
Hey rockers
Hip hoppers
And everybody all around the world

Move in, now move out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now
Breath in, now breath out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now

Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Yeah
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
What?
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Come on

Move in, now move out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now
Breath in, now breath out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now

Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
What?
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Come on
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Yeah

Re:Nice.

[ameoba]

As long as it's not this bird, it wouldn't be -that- bad.

Re:Nice.

[vrmlknight]

good job one of the more interesting trolls i have read in a while and you worked in a goatse.cx link w/ out stupid ASCII graphics

Re:Nice.

[Zspdude]

It's the first rule of predatory hunting: go for the very old, the sick, and the weak....On an interesting note, has anyone sued Slashdot over the Slashdot effect yet? It does, after all, resemble hacker attacks which cause large numbers of machines to attempt access a certain site, crashing it. Or did script kiddies get that idea from the /. effect??

Too bad.

[tcd004]

We could use budding technology like that at not@homeinternet service.

Here's the original message

[cshotton]

This is the original message as posted to the MacHTTP discussion list for those interested in the Lisa's details:

Hello All,
Due to the many requests, I just put on-line my Apple Lisa2 web
server.
Since I am not finished with my site content I am only going leave her
up till about 8:00am on 1/2/2002 US Central Time. Check it out at:

http://www.lisa2.com

Let me know what you think. As far as I know, She is the only Apple
Lisa2
based web server in the world, and she may be one of the oldest PC's
on the net!

My current config is:
Apple Lisa2
Lisa Screen Mod.
800K disk Mod.
1 Meg slot RAM
MacWorks+II Ver 2.5.5
XLerator 18 with 8 meg Fast RAM
Sun SCSI with QuickBoot ROM
500 Meg SCSI Drive with Apple ROM
Mac System 7.01?
MacTCP 2.06
MacHTTP 2.2.2

TCP/IP via MacIP to my RevB iMac running IPnetrouter.
iMac Modem @ 50K to net.

Thanks,
R

Re:Here's the original message

[big_hairy_mama]

And someone expected *that* to withstand /.?
</redundant-and-obvious>

Re:Here's the original message

[x136]

Ah, this is no ordinary Lisa... This one's running at 18MHz with 9MB of RAM.
This is one hot-rodded Lisa... (A stock Lisa has a 5MHz chip and either 512k or 1MB of RAM)

Re:Here's the original message

[Phroggy]

hmm, TCP/IP via MacIP - that's TCP/IP tunneled over AppleTalk, which would presumably be running over a LocalTalk connection. One problem: the iMac doesn't have LocalTalk (serial) ports. Either he's using a USB-to-LocalTalk adapter, an Ethernet-to-LocalTalk adapter, or has soldered a port onto the motherboard (but I don't think you can do that on the Rev B, my memory's a bit shaky on this issue...).

Anyone care to shed some light?

Re:Here's the original message

[aberkvam]

Also it's running the MacWorks+II software which pretty much turns the Lisa into a Mac Plus. This thing really isn't a Lisa anymore. Of course I don't think a TCP/IP stack was ever implemented for the Lisa so it would be pretty much impossible to get a real Lisa up and running as a web server....

Re:Here's the original message

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm, did you bother to read the article? Why are you talking about iMacs? This is an Apple Lisa. You know, the computer that came between the Apple ][ and III lines and the Macintosh line?

Because, dumbass, if you had actually read the article, you'd find out that he was connecting the Lisa to the outside world through his iMac. This poster was dwelling on the fact that iMacs don't have native LocalTalk support and that you'd therefore need an adapter to hook a Lisa up to the iMac as this person has done (there are USB adapters out there to allow you to hook iMacs up to AppleTalk networks).

You shouldn't accuse people of not reading things if you're not going to read them yourself.

Just to make sure you understand what the hell was being talked about, I'll cite it here for you:

TCP/IP via MacIP to my RevB iMac running IPnetrouter. iMac Modem @ 50K to net.

And yes, I have to be this rude, because you were that stupid.

---

I'm not a real anonymous coward, but I play one on TV.

Re:Here's the original message

[justinstreufert]

Kindly reread the article. A rev. B iMac is indeed mentioned. It is in use as a router for the Lisa.

Justin

Re:Here's the original message

[joto]

Obviously he did. You, however have obviously not read the article. Go read it again, and find out why he is talking about an iMac. Then try to think before you post next time.

Re:Here's the original message

[aberkvam]

Yup, I stand (at least partially) corrected. As I originally stated there was no mention of an iMac in the original Slashdot article. However an iMac was mentioned in a post to the list linked to from the article. (It probably was also mentioned on the Lisa server itself, which is now firmly Slashdotted and unreachable.) I didn't follow the link to the list and I didn't hunt down the origial post (which was not in the article nor a direct link from the article).

As to the original issue, I now see what the question was. There would be a number of ways to handle this problem. Check out this LowEndMac article for a number of ways to connect LocalTalk and Ethernet physically. As far as converting MacIP to TCP/IP, IPNetRouter handles this itself.

Re:Here's the original message

[Phroggy]

You'll notice my post was a reply to this post on Slashdot, which contained the original announcement posted to the MacHTTP list, and mentioned the iMac I was asking about. If you don't wanna follow links you know to be slashdotted already, fine, but at least read the parent of a reply, especially when the parent has already been modded up.

I'm aware that there are a number of ways to connect LocalTalk to an iMac; I listed three possibilities in my post. I was wondering if anyone knew what was used in this particular case.

I'm also aware that IPNetRouter handles MacIP (I've used it, although only for playing with); the post I was replying to mentioned IPNetRouter and I didn't think further comment was necessary.

It was a matter of time.

[x136]

I've seen a server or two running on Mac Pluses (8MHz 68000 vs. the Lisa/Lisa2/MacXL's 5MHz 68000), some Classics (8MHz 68000), LCs (16MHz 68020) and SE/30s (16MHz 68030), but never a Lisa.

Good show to whoever got it set up. Too bad it could never hope to handle a slashdotting...

Believe it or not, Mac Pluses and other 68k Macs (running either MacHTTP or some form of 68k BSD) seem to make pretty good servers for sites with fairly low traffic (Not to mention cheap!). Of course, you'll never see Slashdot running on a Quadra. :)

Re:It was a matter of time.

[el_doop]

I worked at an ISP between 1996 and 1998 that ran several dedicated web and mail servers on Mac Pluses and Mac Classics. Actually, all the servers were older Macs. Two 7200/75s (which technically weren't all that old at that point) running as authentication servers and a pair of Quadra 800s (IIRC) running as mail and web servers. The DNS server was a pizza box Mac, I don't recall which model. We had about 2500 users and things went pretty smoothly.

Re:It was a matter of time.

[Jhan]

Lisa? MAC SE?!

Of course your modern day super computers can handle a web server. OTOH, it's only recently that web server technology has filtered down to the humble computers that people can actually afford to buy.

(Check the link, yes it's a C=64...) I guess the poor machine will be slashdotted to hell even though this is a late entry in an old thread. So, a short summary:

c64.cc65.org is a web server hosted on a C=64 connected by SLIP through a serial cartidge to a Linux computer (which in its turn is connected through ADSL). The IPstack and all processing is on the C=64. The C=64 has not been expanded in any way, save for the IO cartridge (SwiftLink 38400bps serial).

The page is small, but there is a few images on it... The server was created by Adam Dunkels as a part of his uIP TCP/IP stack for the C=64.

Re:It was a matter of time.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice Job! Just saw it load. still up!

I have an Apple IIgs with 1mb of ram. I belive it can do a web server too. I have got it to run a web browser and connect to the internet. unfortunatly I believe that machine tops out at 19.2 kbps.

Cruel Joke...

[SuperguyA1]

Putting up a link to a lisa2 webserver on slasdot is like tickeling the old lady's feet who is holding up your car with her bare hands while you change your oil... Nice going... it's crashed.. I bet you're very proud:)

Re:Cruel Joke...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's probably closer to bashing her with the tire iron.

--sdem (still posting, IPBAN MOTHERFUCKERS!)

Cool, but as far as doing more Web with less...

[Tsar]

Nothing in my experience comes close to the iPic. I suppose if they started weaving webservers into currency, that would be even more impressive (and quite a bit scarier). Still, the matchhead-sized server is quite cool.

Re:Cool, but as far as doing more Web with less...

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought it was established that iPic was a fake.

Re:Cool, but as far as doing more Web with less...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it is not a fake - even though it is not a real TCP/IP enabled device. It is only capable of sending precomputed HTTP/TCP/IP packets from an EEPROM memory and that's all it can do. Nobody in their right mind would call that TCP/IP (let alone RFC compliant!). It is totally useless in practice, but it is a cool demo IMHO.

not very bright

[Anonymous Coward]

There are smarter things to do than to mention a web server running on a lisa 2 here.

Re:Apostrophe Correction

[gmhowell]

Bzzz. Wrong! Sorry, thank you for playing. The original poster was correctly using the apostrophe.

Netcraft says it's running Solaris...

This can also be written:

Netcraft says it is running Solaris...

IOW, the contraction rule was appropriate.

Repeat after me. What we need here is...

[CatherineCornelius]

A beowulf-cluster of Lisa's running machttp in a massive geriatric webfarm. Kind of a silicon heaven.

not really a Lisa... yawn

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like its a Lisa converted into a Mac XL ... i think Mac Plus equivalent. Running system 7? Damn straight its not a 'real' Lisa anymore.

I've seen a Commodore 64 on the net serving web pages through its own TCP/IP stack (via SLIP connection). Now that might be noteworthy.

Doesen't beet what I've done..

[zulux]

The Lisa web server is pretty cool... But get this...

I've just barly managed to get an Microsoft Windows box to pretend it's a ... FILESERVER. Nobody will beleive me 'cause I had to train a monkey to hit the reset button everytime the monitor flashes blue - so far the monkey is doing ok, but I'm afraid there isn't a enough time for him to eat. Poor monkey.

Next I'm going to attempt to turn my NetBSD Dreamcast into an Indreima video game console, and after that hopefully I can get my TRS-80 to fake three-voice sound by hooking up a speaker to the casette port, another speaker on the video out port and another speaker on the RS-232 port, on second thought, I should just go but a C-64.

Re:I know I'm going to get modded down for this, b

[Anonymous Coward]

Clint Trollwood - fucking disgusted with this site

so don't look at it, genius

A new slashdot record

[nick_burns]

I'd like to congratulate the readers of slashdot for a new slashdot record of 2.8 seconds for shutdown. It'll probably be broken when I finish my webserver on a NES.

Re:A new slashdot record

[PenguinX]

Does:

NES = Nintendo Entertainment System

-or-

NES = Netscape Enterprise Server

Either way, it could be quick ^_^;;

-Brian

Re:A new slashdot record

[SmittyTheBold]

Laugh all you want, we run some iPlanet/NSEnt servers at work, and they're pretty darn stable...

Re:A new slashdot record

[Suppafly]

just dont try to get php to work correctly..

Re:A new slashdot record

[SuperDuG]

But can you successfully do PHP 4.0 AUTHINTICATION with them ... NOOOOO ... or PHP 4.0 Re-Directs ... NOOOOO ... iPlanet isn't bad, but apache sure is better :-)

Peace

Re:A new slashdot record

[SmittyTheBold]

What was that? PHP intoxication? Yeah, pickin' on a typo.

We use a huge amount of JSP, but no PHP, so I haven't noticed that particular issue ;)

Re:A new slashdot record

[dzm]

To be fair Apache does not do PHP Auth, PHP Redirects, PHP parsing, or anything else with PHP. Not until you install the PHP module. If you're going to install the PHP module under Apache then you have all the tools you need to compile PHP in NSAPI form and have it run under NES/iPlanet.

[PHP Doc Here]

Re:A new slashdot record

[SuperDuG]

That's exactly what we have, identical installs, Both Solaris 8 ... Bot sun boxen ... One iPlanet, One Apache, Apached w/ Mod PHP does it all ... PHP 4.0 as stand-alone SSI/CGI ... doesn't

SupeRDuG

Re:A new slashdot record

[Suppafly]

you obviously don't understand the problem described so don't try to help..

Impressive, but...

[darkov]

I won't be truly impressed until I see an a site being served with a turing machine, run manually by a guy drawing dots on a paper looking at a T1 line terminating in a green LED.

The only danger of this is that is may be the first recorded death due to slashdotting.

Re:Impressive, but...

[mgblst]

...looking at a T1 line terminating in a green LED.

Lets hope he doesnt suffer from epilepsy!

Re:Impressive, but...

[ymgve]

And it would be even more impressive if they used TCP/IP over Avian Carriers for the network connection.

The ping times would suck, though.

Re:Impressive, but...

[ptrourke]

I won't be truly impressed until I see an a site being served with a turing machine, run manually by a guy drawing dots on a paper looking at a T1 line terminating in a green LED

Nope, not a T1 line, a avian carrier.

Not that I'd dare, but....

[caferace]

I dicovered (a bit by accident) that my Casio QV3000EX digital camera makes a pretty good web server. Of course the 1G IBM Microdrive makes it ever more tempting. If I had an AC adapter I'd probably make it live on an off port, just for fun. Unfortunately the batteries only last about 15 minutes with the disc spun up.

Granted, I've not toyed with it under Linux, but it works just peachy in Windows.

"they expect to shut it down 8AM CST on 1/2/02"

[Wakko Warner]

You heartless bastards. Couldn't you have given it 'till 7:55 AM?

- A.P.

TI-89!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey there's TCP/IP for the TI-89! The TI-89's got a 68k chip and 188K of RAM! I'd love to set a server up on mine ;D

Of course you need a computer running serial-to-network pass-through to connect it to the net... But that's a minor detail. ;D

Re:TI-89!

[zaffir]

There's Telnet for my TI-83+. You need a null modem cable, and a *nix box to dial into, but you can do all kinds of neat stuff (pretty much whatever your desktop telnet is capable of). Hell, i think it even runs Pine. http://www.ticalc.org/archives/news/articles/0/2/2 355.html

The 8am shutdown isn't permanent

[Peyna]

If you read the comments the guy made, he just put it up temporarily because some people asked him too, but there isn't any content, so he's taking it down at 8am, presumably to add content and fiddle with it some more. So for those of you complaining because it was slashdotted, it will be back, but I doubt he'll let /. find out so quickly if he can help it.

Re:The 8am shutdown isn't permanent

[The_Messenger]

...he's taking it down at 8am, presumably to add content and fiddle with it some more...

He has to shut down the box to perform content updates? Are you saying that he's ported IIS to MacOS?

Re:The 8am shutdown isn't permanent

[Howie]

MacOS is already more or less single tasking - who needs IIS?

Re:Mama I'm Coming Home

[Ozzy Osbourne]

Th th than thank you fo for spr spreadin tha n n new news er ere um th that I ya er ro ro rock!

Nothing better to do

[Anonymous Coward]

Timothy, in all honesty, I've got to believe you were laughing your ass off when you posted this story...

Slashdot Readers Don't Read!

[Enonu]

I know this will be modded OT, but it needs to be said.

There are too many lazy bastards on Slashdot.

Look at the 50 some odd redundant comments about the Slashdot effect on the poor Lisa box. I know it's hard people, but Edit/Find "slashdotted" would have prevented all the worthless posts.

oh - it's a mac .....

[taniwha]

I assumed he'd somehow managet to squeeze apache down to run under the Lisa Unix (which was swap based and limited to actual memory on hand for mac app size [kinda like a 7.1 mac :-] ...)

I weep for this machine....

[Mike the Mac Geek]

Poor little Lisa. She was just serving up pages to a few hundred or so of the Mac faithful when the Penguin known as Slashdot set it's lustful eyes upon it. Now, it's bandwidth stuffed to overflowing, the Lisa sits in a corner, weeping openly.

Slashdot: When bashing Apple and beatifying Linux is a way of life!

Re:I weep for this machine....

[KillerKane]

I'm currently working up a web server on my first computer, a mechanical binary computer I built when I was six, in 1963. The ip stack is two tin cans and a piece of string. Unfortunately, it can be slashdotted by jumping up and down next to it.

Re:I weep for this machine....

[Anonymous Coward]

dude
you need help
or female contact

Re:I weep for this machine....

[DarkProphet]

Heh, it makes me wonder if M$ has ever felt the slashdot effect? Certainly it would be funny if microsoft.com got a TCP/IP raping courtesy of The Penguin

A Follow Up To "Gaping Anus"

[Anonymous Coward]

I have just recieved word of CmdrTaco's so called "girlfriend"...and I use the term loosely. As a follow-up to "Gaping Anus", he has written "Fat Sweaty Betty". This is a song dedicated to his one and only girlfriend.

"Fat Sweaty Betty" by CmdrTaco

w-w-w-w why dont you go into the next room and start getting undressed (x2)

Fat Sweaty Betty you bitch ain't nuthin new
Her ma used to baby sit me back when we was 2
We'd go to the playground and to the skating rink
And we'd go under the bleachers and she'd let me hit the stank
Well ah, she moved across town and never came back
Until the other day I seen her at the Chicken Shack
She said her name was Betty I can't believe this, shit
The sexy little girl is now a fat sweaty beatch
She said "Hey Taco! Tell me how you been"
She had a piece of chicken gizzard stuck to her chin
I told her, hold still and flicked it off her face
And said "Betty oh Betty what ya say we leave this place?"
I took her back to the crib and hit it all night
I let my fingers rub across the rippled cellulite
Oooooh it was nasty, but I don't let it bother me
She rolled over and fuckin knocked the wind outta me
I couldn't breath she wouldn't stop I'm almost dead
I took the lamp and bust it on her fuckin head We got dressed
I gave her a little kiss good-bye Fat Sweaty Betty,
my fat sweaty pumpkin pie

Fat Sweaty Betty
Tell me when your ready (x2)

Theres a big fat flop of shit people call Betty
Lots of fat on her back her neck, Sweaty
Boogers runnin out her noes and over hung lips
Can't tell the difference from her titties to her hips
But fuck all that cuz I wanna see the neden
I wanna see the cat that cheesy, cheesy, chin
Rode my bike to her house, hey yo Betty let me in
I'm packin some snack cakes, bitch let me in
I can hear her commin down the stairs
She opened up the door in her mutha fuckin underwear's
Eww, shit fuck that I'm turnin back
But then the door shut and she goin for the cake snack
I said relax hoe, I'm hear on business
You can have the candy, first you gotta wait a bit
I need a favor, come on Betty drop them drawers
Ahhhh, I knew it, Betty had balls
Oh, no here come that ass
From the top of the dresser with the Yokozuna Splash
I wish I never came Oh boy do I wish
She Fat Sweaty Betty The Sweaty Fat Bitch

Fat Sweaty Betty Tell me when your ready
fat sweaty betty (x8)

No longer a Lisa!

[freshmkr]

Mod the parent up! aberkvam's right, it's pretty much been modified to the point of not being a Lisa anymore. The square pixel screen modification alone is enough to keep it from running 7/7 (aka the Lisa Office System, the Lisa's groundbreaking OS), nevermind the CPU and memory modifications.

This aside, it might not be impossible to get a stock Lisa 2 (or even a Lisa 1!) on the net. Microsoft (if you can believe it) had a version of Xenix for both Lisa models. One could potentially program some "http server" that operates over one of the serial lines or perhaps do something more baroque than that (e.g. implement serial line PPP+web server in user mode).

If someone can find me a copy of Xenix on 5.25" Twiggy media and a spare ProFile external HD (5 megabytes!), I'll put my Lisa 1 on the net. Yes, I own one.

I used to have a webpage about the Lisa. The server that held it (a 386) suffered an untimely demise after another administrator ran rm -rf /. Fortunately, you can still view the old content online with the help of the Internet Archive. Go here and here to see some of the old content.

The Apple Lisa Web Page will return someday, I promise...

--Tom

Re:No longer a Lisa!

[einstein]

you know... I might just have a copy of Xenix in my stash somewhere...
---

Apple is rewriting history

[markj02]

From the Apple Lisa link:

the Lisa (pictured below left) was supposed to be the Next Big Thing. It was the first personal computer to use a Graphical User Interface.

The Lisa was not the first GUI-based personal computer: Xerox, Apollo, and Sun all beat them to it by several years. The Lisa was a pretty blatant clone of Xerox's machines and it failed for the same reasons: it was too expensive and marketed to the wrong people. Only when Apple shipped a very stripped down machine called the "Mac" and marketed it to a different group of people did they finally succeed.

Re:Apple is rewriting history

[sakusha]

No, YOU are rewriting history, buying into BillG's revision of the GUI, to make it look like Apple was no innovator.

Apple was working on the GUI long before they ever saw Xerox PARC's demo, and before PARC even started their initial GUI work. This was all documented on slashdot ages ago, when Apple released some early GUI interface docs to Stanford. Go hunt it up.

And to put to rest that OTHER stupid rumor, Apple did not copy Xerox's GUI. Xerox licensed certain aspects of their GUI to Apple. Apple needed only a couple of pieces to finish the job, and Xerox made good royalties from Apple, more than they ever made from their own products. Apple did not copy Xerox, the Apple GUI was substantially superior to Xerox's. Xerox and had almost nothing in common with LisaOS or anything else.

Re:Apple is rewriting history

[markj02]

Look up the history of the Alto, Smalltalk, and Dynabook. It's all on the web and goes back to the 1960's and 1970's. No, Apple didn't just visit Xerox and duplicate the project, but they built on years of published research, much of it by people at Xerox, SRI, and other places. And the fact remains that Xerox shipped an business-oriented personal computer running a GUI before Apple.

Re:Apple is rewriting history

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd have to support the original poster -- the Lisa was the first GUI-based personal computer that I recall. Sure, there was one obscure workstation line (from Xerox) that was GUI based, and some personal computers that could display graphics (e.g. Apple ][, IBM PC). But the Lisa was the first personal computer built with a purely graphical interface.

And the line about Lisa being a "blatant clone of Xerox" is pretty much wrong. Certainly Xerox (and SRI, for that matter) did a lot of groundbreaking GUI work that inspired Apple, but (1) Xerox was an investor in Apple at the time, and (2) Apple is responsible for many of the basic innovations that people expect in GUI's (e.g. the menu bar, the desktop/Finder, dragging window and icons with the mouse, document-centric user view). Read http://www-ee.stanford.edu/~siegman/interface_hist ory.html for a basic rundown of who invented what in GUI's -- pretty much Xerox, SRI and Apple. It's not a complete list, but it's a good simple reference. Or you can read http://www.archaic-apples.com/files/lisa/lisa-retr o.html for a more detailed writeup of the Lisa's history.

I will agree, though, that Apple blew the pricing for the Lisa. If they'd launched with the pricing they ended up at when it was too late ($3000 + $1000/application) instead of an all-in package ($10,000 for the machine and all 7 applications) it would have been quite competitive with PC's of the day, while $10K was simply too much all at once.

It's a shame -- the Lisa was a wonderful machine for its day, and even now is more advanced in a few ways than current mainstream machines. For example, when you shut a Lisa down it automatically saved state in all applications, and restored state when it started up, so your documents that you were working on would all reopen to the same place, etc. Also, the Lisa filesystem had a level of indirection between displayed names and files, so you could give any name to any file, or even have multiple files with the same name in the same directory (i.e. just like paper documents).

Re:Apple is rewriting history

[markj02]

And the line about Lisa being a "blatant clone of Xerox" is pretty much wrong. Certainly Xerox (and SRI, for that matter) did a lot of groundbreaking GUI work that inspired Apple, but (1) Xerox was an investor in Apple at the time, and (2) Apple is responsible for many of the basic innovations that people expect in GUI's (e.g. the menu bar, the desktop/Finder, dragging window and icons with the mouse, document-centric user view)

You are getting lost in technical details. The point of the Xerox work was to create a machine with an easy-to-use, intuitive WIMP interface for business and publishing applications. That's what Xerox delivered, and that's what Apple delivered as well.

I'd have to support the original poster -- the Lisa was the first GUI-based personal computer that I recall. Sure, there was one obscure workstation line (from Xerox) that was GUI based,

Why is one company's obscure product (Apple Lisa) any better than another company's obscure product (Xerox workstations) if they both were intended to serve the same purpose?

Apple is a company that does good engineering, good design, and good marketing. Apple created the first commercially successful personal computer with a GUI (the Macintosh). Why isn't all of that enough? Why this obsessive need to create a mythology around that company?

Re:Apple is rewriting history

[BarefootClown]

documented on slashdot

I rest my case.

Quite an impressive feat?

[joto]

Not really. I've seen a lot of "embedded" webservers and webservers running on old hardware really. And when you think of it, well how hard can a minimal tcp/ip-stack and minimal implementation of http be?

Besides, the Apple Lisa has more than enough RAM for such a task (512kB), there's room for both a real tcp/ip stack and a real webserver without having to wrestle for space. And I am sure it has a serial-port you can run PPP over (which is a really simple protocol, if you choose to implement only what you need).

And, as someone already has mentioned earlier in this thread, the Lisa mentioned is so upgraded that it is no longer really a Lisa. Which makes it even less impressive.

Re:Keep Trollin'

[Anonymous Coward]

Important: A message to all the trolls out there!

[Hmm, yeah
This just one of them days when yo' ass just wanna chill out and troll
and motherfuckers moderators be all in yo' ear and shit, yknowhatI'msayin?
Or that naggin bitch, that just like to hear herself talk
blowin all yo' troll away
Now that's some fucked up shit, heh
but it happens, yknowhatI'msayin?]

Note: to the beat of Limp Bizkit's "Rollin".

Chocolate Pud and the Hot Dog Flavored Jizz

Trollin' (Air Raid Vehicle)

Alright partner
Keep on trollin' baby
You know what time it is

Throw your hands up
Ladies and gentlement
Chocolate Pud
Keep on trolling baby

Move in, now move out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now
Breath in, now breath out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now

Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
What?
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Come on!
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Yeah

Now I know y'all be lovin' this shit right here
Anon Coward is right here
People in the house put them hands in the air
Cuz if you don't care, then we don't care
1 2 3 times two to the six
Jolts in for your fix with the Goatse mix
So where the fuck you at?
Punk, shut the fuck up
And back the fuck up
While we fuck this track up

Throw your hands up

Move in, now move out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now
Breath in, now breath out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now

Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
What?
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Come on
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Yeah

You wanna mess with Anon Coward? (Yeah)
You cant mess with Anon Coward (why?)
Because we get it on (when?)
Every day and every night (oh)
See this crapflood thing right here? (uh huh)
Well we're doing it all the time (what?)
So you'd better get some better beats
And uh, get some better rhymes (d'oh!)
We got the gang set
So don't complain yet
24/7 never begging for a raincheck
Old school soldiers passing up the hot shit
That rock shit
And bounce in the mosh pit

Throw your hands up

Move in, now move out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now
Breath in, now breath out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now

Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Come on
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
What?
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Yeah

Hey ladies
Hey fellas
And the people that don't give a fuck
All the lovers
All the haters
And all the people that call themselves players
Hot mommas
Pimp daddies
And the people rolling up in caddies
Hey rockers
Hip hoppers
And everybody all around the world

Move in, now move out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now
Breath in, now breath out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now

Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Yeah
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
What?
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Come on

Move in, now move out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now
Breath in, now breath out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now

Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
What?
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Come on
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Yeah

You say that like...

[ebbomega]

... there was some other purpose to the post.

Honestly. They put up a link to a Lisa 2 Web server and expect that it will stay running? The only redeeming conversation that's going to come out of this whole post is going to be the jokes made of it... (I personally like the Parrot-Brain one...)

The shutdown

[batobin]

I bet the feds shut it down.

"WHAT? A little girl named Lisa, only 17 years old, and she's on the Internet? We've got to stop this, fast!!!"

We didn't take it down, THEY took it down.

Wrong.

[Anonymous Coward]

"The Lisa was not the first GUI-based personal computer..."

Personal computer.

Do you understand that?

You don't?

Okay then, let me spell it:

P E R S O N A L

C O M P U T E R

Re:Wrong.

[markj02]

You can spell, but apparently not think very clearly. What do you think is more "personal" about a dedicated, overpriced single-user machine from Apple compared to a dedicated, overpriced single-user machine from Xerox, Sun, or Apollo? It can't be the applications, because all of those machines were used for business and desktop publishing applications.

It's been done before.

[sakusha]

I used to sell Lisas back when they were new. A fair percentage of them went to government research offices. Some of them were wiped of LisaOS and they put SCO Xenix on them, and went straight onto the net. I also used to sell the old original Apple Portable (you know, the huge one with the lead-acid batteries) with AIX and they went on the net too.

So this bozo is going about it entirely the wrong way. It's not like its the first time anyone used a Lisa on the net. It's just that there was no HTTP back when the Lisa was new. Most people used UUCP and FTP.

Re:It's been done before.

[Anonymous Coward]

liar

Re:It's been done before.

[Anonymous Coward]

Xenix and AIX on a Lisa? Xenix wasn't even a SCO product, it was a Microsoft Unix for Intel machines. Don't even get me started on IBM producing AIX for a potential enemy. What the hell are you giving this man mod points for? He's lying so blatantly that there's shit pouring out of his mouth.

Re:It's been done before.

[Anonymous Coward]

You must have a problem with reading comprehension. I said SCO Xenix on a Lisa, and AIX on a Macintosh Portable. It most certainly did exist, I sold it, I still have marketing brochures. It was the first Unix I ever sold.

Xenix WAS an SCO product, way back before Microsoft got their hands on it. You know, there IS a history to the computing world before Microsoft came along. Some of us were using unix back in the 1970s.

And BTW mr anonymous cowherd, you are not only clueless about Unix/Xenix etc, you are clueless about slashdot. Nobody modded up my remarks, every post I make gets 2 points because I have 50 karma. That's because I am one of the few posters on /. that is NOT full of bullshit.

Re:It's been done before.

[Anonymous Coward]

oops, that last post was by me, sakusha, something glitched and I apparently lost my cookie, I'm an AC. Oh well.

Re:It's been done before.

[Howie]

surely thats A/UX (apple unix originally for 68k then PPC) not AIX (IBM Unix originally for POWER then PPC)?

Re:It's been done before.

[bn557]

Unix was done by Ma Bell... MS LICENSED unix code and created their own implementation and called it Xenix. They didn't like it so they sold it to Santa Cruz Operations(SCO) who took the ms hack and fixed it up a bit. They realized that they could do better from sscratch(almost anyways) so they licensed it directly from AT&T and created SCO UNIX. Xenix was a SCO/MS joint project you might say

(HA, and I'm only 21)

Re:It's been done before.

[Anonymous Coward]

Howie: surely thats A/UX (apple unix originally for 68k then PPC) not AIX (IBM Unix originally for POWER then PPC)?

Not quite. A/UX needed at least a Motorola 68030, and it never ran on the PPC. The ultimate hardware for A/UX was/is the WGS95, a Quadra 950 with faster SCSI.

And don't call me Shirley.

Re:It's been done before.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, too many acronyms to remember them all. Yes of course, it was A/UX.

-sakusha

Re:It's been done before.

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

Though I agree that certainly the original poster meant A\UX, Apple did license AIX on a particular model of server, forget which. Was doing poorly, even before Jobs returned and decreed that all practical Macs were no longer welcome is his perfect vision of elitists the world over using Apple brand fashion computers.

Re:It's been done before.

[Espresso_Boy]

A/UX needed at least a Motorola 68030

I thought it could run on a 68020 as long as you had an FPU.

Re:It's been done before.

[Ruzty]

You are refering to the Apple Network Server 500 and 700 circa about 1996. They were PPC-604 machines running at 132mhz and 150mhz respectively. There were PPC604-200mhz upgrade boards made for them. They ran AIX 4.1.3. Excellent design, I have one in my den. It currently runs NetBSD 1.5 and YellowDogLinux 2 when/if I swap out the boot drive. Mine still cranks out 500,000+ RC5-64 keys per second for distributed.net

-Rusty

Re:It's been done before.

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

I still need one of these for my collection. That's the good thing about collecting amigas vs. collecting macs... no matter how you count them, there are less than a dozen amigas total. With macs, I have this beasty, a newton, a Mac 128k, a Lisa, and an Apple ///, before I can consider it well rounded. And there is simply no way to complete it. (I have the apple set top box, all the a2's, quite a few 68k's, and even a few PPC macs, so I'm not just starting). Can these Netservers do localtalk though?

Re:It's been done before.

[Ruzty]

Yes, they do Localtalk, but ummm... They're AIX (or some other *nix) boxes. They absolutely can not run MacOS. The closest they come in MoL under LinuxPPC.

You could probably buy one but they weigh a good 40kg or more depending on how many HD they have. You'ld need to have it shipped by truck on a pallette (as they were originally delivered).
Check out www.xavax.com for some pictures and information.

-Rusty

cruelty

[madcoder47]

Slashdotting in itself is funny, but slashdotting a lisa 2? three users at a time could probably "slashdot" a lisa 2.... I'd be surprised if the traffic didn't set the thing ablaze!

Dont underestimate the power of the Lisa (hottie)

[Anonymous Coward]

Commmmmmmmmmon people. The Lisa 2 was a powerful machine containing UI and OS technologies that only recently have been revisited. If you ever used one and looked inside, you might realize that it has a significantly more advanced architecture than the PC I'm working on. If it didnt have such a huge initial cost, perhaps they would have been that much more popular.

Damn. Even the Lisa didnt have to worry about IRQs and DMA addresses being taken! I love my PC, but honestly if it wasnt such a giant design flaw!

Let's all screw this and switch to Atari 2600s.

Wrong.

[Anonymous Coward]

HA HA
Then why did it cost $10,000 and had a hard time selling even as a business computer???It was the ??first personal computer?? to use a Graphical User Interface!!. Aimed mainly at large businesses!!, Apple said the Lisa would increase productivity by making computers easier to work with.

Whatever.
They are trying to rewrite history.

Justice

[QuickFox]

In return for the slashdotting, now I want to see the /. site deployed on an Apple Lisa 2.

Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.

Re:Justice

[Anonymous Coward]

it is. why do you think it crashes so often?

It's not running as a Lisa

[Animats]

Sadly, it's a Lisa 2 running as a Mac. MacOS System 7, no less.

The Lisa, unlike Macs until the 68030 machines, had an MMU, and hence could support a protected-mode operating system, which it did. So running a server on an original Lisa with the original software wouldn't be unreasonable. (You'd have to implement a TCP stack, probably in Lisa Pascal, but so be it.)

Unfortunately, Motorola was years late with MMU support for the 680x0 line, and Apple had to homebrew their own MMU. This didn't work very well due to limitations of the M68000 (fixed in the M68010, years too late), and added considerably to the parts count and cost. It also required that all Lisa programs be compiled without using register incrementation on instructions that accessed memory, because the 68000 couldn't back those out on a page fault.

Motorola was so close. If only they hadn't been late with the 68K support chips, we might have avoided the whole x86 era.

Re:It's not running as a Lisa

[drsoran]

Motorola was so close. If only they hadn't been late with the 68K support chips, we might have avoided the whole x86 era.

I'm afraid you're wrong there. Without the IBM PC clone market taking off and driving down prices through the floor, PCs would still be machines used by businesses and very rich hobbyists rather than ordinary everyday people. Like it or not, the IBM clone industry also helped drive down the prices of those overpriced Macs as well. You can tell recently in very significant design changes. Adopting USB, ATA drives, PCI and AGP buses, standard SDRAM memory, standard SVGA monitors, etc. The Mac went from being a very finicky proprietary system to at least allowing you to change out many of the components with cheap third party parts like you can on a common IBM compatible PC. Now, if Motorola had delivered and Apple had accepted the clones with open arms I think you'd see a very different world today. Mac based systems would probably make up over 60% of the market while Apple itself would be mostly a software company with a few reference machine designs now and then coming out. MacOS X is a nice operating system but you still need to pay a premium for the hardware to run it. I can go out and assemble a tower PC with a 1.4GHz AMD CPU, 512MB of ram, 80GB hard drive, nice video card,etc. for well under $1000 whereas the cheapest and slowest Mac G4 Tower you can get *starts* at $1699. To get the decent model you're talking over $2500. IMHO that prices it out of the hands of most ordinary people which is why they'll never attain more than the 5-10% niche market they hold with die-hard wealthy followers (and the low end iMacs in schools). As for people that say get an iMac, sure.. tell me where I can get a G3 Tower with the same specs as the iMac for the same price or less without the damned built in tiny CRT display and I'd probably get one. How about a G3 cube? They should run a lot less hot than those G4 cubes since they've already demonstrated they can stick them in a display with no fans.

Re:It's not running as a Lisa

[Therin]

I remember going to a pair of seminars one day long ago; one was showing the 8086 running with an ICE (In-Circuit Emulator, a fantastic way to debug hardware). The other was about the 68000 - and in that seminar, the folks from Motorola were asking the engineers in the audience what they thought the instruction set should look like on the 68000.

So those of us making design decisions at the time had very little choice - the 8086 was there and real, the 68000 was still in design and not even layout.

Now the National 16032, 32032, etc. was a great chip - that's the one I mourn not having "made it".

C'mon! If they can run a webserver on a PIC...

[newbob]

...then running one on an Apple Lisa is No Big Deal.

Look here to see what I mean.

Has anyone ever done any web server for the Apple ][? (Back when Apple made good computers! Remember when Steve Jobs said "Apple ][ forever" in 1989?)

Re:C'mon! If they can run a webserver on a PIC...

[slcdb]

These are two totally different feats. The iPIC is brand new hardware designed specifically with this application in mind.

The Lisa is 18 years old and was designed to show pie charts, not serve web pages.

Re:C'mon! If they can run a webserver on a PIC...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, bub, you're wrong. The IPIC isn't "brand new hardware" made for TCP/IP. Please moderate parent down for STUPIDITY!

Re:C'mon! If they can run a webserver on a PIC...

[Yakko]

I'd be interested in seeing if anyone's made a TCP/IP stack for the 8bit Apple ][ line. It'd have to be bare-bones, and there would be precious little RAM for your httpd (unless you had 128k and ran some of the code out of the aux RAM) ... I assume ProDOS taking up the language card area, tho there's no reason (other than lack of interrupt handling) that DOS3.3 can't be used instead

A IIgs, otoh, could most likely run as a web server without much trouble. It'd be painful going pushing the data out the serial, unless you get a LANceGS card for it.

Re:C'mon! If they can run a webserver on a PIC...

[Paul Neubauer]

Heck, just having the stack and _a_ client program of some sort would be something I'd be interested in.

Re:Apostrophe Correction

[asmdsr]

The cat's out of the bag, fuckwad What does this mean? he was right, the original post was correct... and as far as I understand, the only way to use it's/its.

So what?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got a web server running on my HP-48G Calculator over the IR port. I wrote it in RPL. You think your getting the address after what you people did to this poor guy's Lisa?

Okay, someone explain this....

[Mark_Hopkins]

It looks to me like this box is not, in fact, a Lisa. We're killing some poor box at Netsol for no reason at all! :o}


%nslookup
Default Server: uinus.pair.com
Address: 209.68.2.73

> www.lisa2.com
Server: uinus.pair.com
Address: 209.68.2.73

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: www.lisa2.com
Address: 216.168.224.70

> 216.168.224.70
Server: uinus.pair.com
Address: 209.68.2.73

Name: wf.networksolutions.com
Address: 216.168.224.70

>

Re:Okay, someone explain this....

[cbane]

www.lisa2.com isn't a Lisa, but it gives an HTTP redirect to an IP address. Here are the server headers (from the Netsol box):

HTTP/1.1 302 Found
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 07:00:24 GMT
Server: Apache/1.3.3 (Unix)
Location: http://204.248.48.2
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html

Re:Okay, someone explain this....

[Anonymous Coward]

Killing boxes at NetSol? Nothing wrong with that :-)

Re:Okay, someone explain this....

[Mark_Hopkins]

Killing boxes at NetSol? Nothing wrong with that :-)

As long as it's not a gratuitous killing. :o}

-Mark

Re:Okay, someone explain this....

[Mark_Hopkins]

www.lisa2.com isn't a Lisa, but it gives an HTTP redirect to an IP address.

I suppose that does make more sense than my jumped-to conclusion. :o} Thanks!

-Mark

antique computers

[juventasone]

Has anyone ever heard of a computer museum? With systems actually up and running?

A few years ago, I intercepted a computer the size of a large deep-freeze, with a built-in keyboard and monitor, and the hard drive had platters slightly larger than a record. I was told it cost the business well over $10k when new. Unfortunately, I had no place to keep it, and it disappeared. Does anyone have information on a computer like this?

Re:antique computers

[Howie]

It could be anything! It's not so long ago that things that big were common. Only last year we finally sent our DEC VAX 6300 system to the junkyard: 7 boxes the size of LARGE deepfreezes, 2 CPU cabinets (not chips, cabinets), 2 disk controller cabinets, 2 cabinets full of dual-ported RAID disks, some are 8-inch platters (I kept a couple as souvenirs). That was a large, but not huge system built around 1991.

Lovely engineering, and our comms room will never be short of three-phase power as a result.

[the last cabinet was a wiring loom and multiload tapedrive (like a DLT library with TK50 tapes)]

Re:Err

[Anonymous Coward]

you are a liar

some links

[markj02]

You can find some information about the history of some of this, as well as Jobs's comments here. Man of these ideas go back to Doug Engelbart in the 1960's, see here.

Apple did an admirable job popularizing some of these ideas and bringing to market a successful product, although in the process, they cut many corners. But Apple neither developed the groundbreaking ideas nor were they even first to market.

Re:some links

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a little behind the curve. Try these links:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/02/12/1912 22 9&mode=thread

The original paper is a dead link, you can get it from the Google cache:

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:DQSLB4bYCYY :h ome.san.rr.com/deans/lisagui.html&hl=en&client=goo glet

There's another paper out there with original engineering diagrams for a GUI going back to the early Apple II days, but I couldn't find it.

This is n't new

[ljaguar]

It's been done before

Apparently, this isn't news at all.

I think it's happened already...

[Baloo Ursidae]

...but does a red LED count?

Went lookin for myself

[Arctech]

Telnetting to the site with a GET request fed back this:

HTTP/1.1 302 Found
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 06:41:09 GMT
Server: Apache/1.3.3 (Unix)
Location: http://207.87.8.117

So it certainly seems to be running an Apache server. So how do you get a lisa to run Apache?

Re:Went lookin for myself

[TheAJofOZ]

You install OS X and it comes standard.... *grin*

Re:Went lookin for myself

[Anonymous Coward]

You run A/UX http://applefritter.com/ui/aux/index.html

LC's and Quadras

[Baloo Ursidae]

If I'm not mistaken, the LC line is the government/public school version of the Quadra line. Same hardware, different stickers...

Re:LC's and Quadras

[Anonymous Coward]

Baloo Ursidae: If I'm not mistaken, the LC line is the government/public school version of the Quadra line. Same hardware, different stickers...

It is possible that you are mistaken.
The LC-line was the low-cost models, and Apple started selling the original pizzabox LC [Motorola 68020] long before the Quadra series [Motorola 68040].

Remember when...

[fdisk3hs]

Does anybody else remember when you spent lots of money for more ROM? :)
ALA Mac and Commodore and Atari...
LR

Sigh...

[Paradoxish]

... She's dead, Jim.

i tried a webserver on my vic-20

[scrytch]

but it just took ages every time there was a hit having to PRESS PLAY ON TAPE

Apple bashing?? NO

[Anonymous Coward]

Apples are good.. Why should they be bashed on slashdot?
Sure their target audience is not people that prefer to play quake 2 in an xterm, but remember more people use apple than linux!

People should save their effort and bash windows instead. Apples work at least!

(i'm currently trying my hardest to find a 15" DVI LCD that is as good as an apple display at a similar price)

Oh yes

[john_boy]

One Apple Lisa, garage sale....$45

Earthlink dial-up access, one month....$14.99

One 2400-baud modem, used....$15

The pure sadistic delight of slashdotting an 18-year-old computer....priceless

This has gotta be a first!

[WorldSpawn]

Check out the discussion boards. The thing is running on a 56k modem! Gowd damn that's a /. ! :-)

Commodore 64 web server

[adadun]

If you think this is cool, you might want to check out this. It is a Commodore 64 that is running as a web server, and has been up 24/7 since november 2001. It is connected to the Internet via a 38400 bps SLIP link so it is quite slow.

For those of you who doesn't remember the Commodore 64, it was a very popular home computer in the 80's and early 90's. It has 64k RAM and an 8-bit 1 MHz 6502 CPU.

The C64 web server is running the small uIP TCP/IP stack that is less than 4k large and uses only a few hundred bytes of dynamic RAM. Since it is written in C, it has been ported to numerous other systems such as the 8-bit Ataris and a number of embedded processors such as the Hitachi H8S.

Re:Commodore 64 web server

[_LORAX_]

Actaully it's a 6510, the 6502 was used in the NES.

Re:Commodore 64 web server

[slcdb]

Uh, no, actually it is a 6502. You obviously have never owned a Commodore 64.

Re:Commodore 64 web server

[InnereNacht]

"It is a Commodore 64 that is running as a web server, and has been up 24/7 since november 2001"

Haha, not for long!

Re:Commodore 64 web server

[ChrisCampbell47]

For those of you who doesn't remember the Commodore 64, it was a very popular home computer in the 80's and early 90's.

"Early 90's"? I don't think so. I ran a C-64 from 1982 to 1988. By 1988 you would pretty much get laughed at if you were still running a C-64 machine. Everyone had moved to PCs by then. Commodore tried updating the design with the Commodore 128 circa 1986, but that went nowhere.

Commodore launched the Amiga line in the late 80's, which WAS able to carry them into the early 90's, but still by 1993-1994 they had completely augered in.

Click here for a good Commodore VIC20/64/Amiga history

Click here for another

Re:Commodore 64 web server

[Anonymous Coward]

I beg to differ (And I have owned a C64, purchased new in 1983) - Commodore had their own version of the 6502 chip, called the 6510. I belive the instruction sets were identical.

Re:Commodore 64 web server

[Serk]

Actually, Commodore sold more 64's in 1991 than any other year. Remember when Eastern Europe opened up? Commodore capitalized on that in a big way and sold a ton of 64's there in the early 90's, right before they (Commodore) went under...

Re:Commodore 64 web server

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually it is a 6510 which is a 6502 with an 8 bit port added to do memeory switching. It uses the op codes as the 6502 and too a programer it looks just like a 6502 except for on location on 0 page.
Yes I had and programed the 64.

Re:Commodore 64 web server

[WWWWolf]

By 1988 you would pretty much get laughed at if you were still running a C-64 machine.

Uh... I was under the impression that C64 has been in constant use by people who really loved them... I don't know, I've been using C64 constantly for a looooong time - and last summer I bought another one of them (pictures!)

And people in demoscene still make really cool demos for C64! Recently I watched through some of the demos from Assembly parties of recent years... I have one word: wow. =)

Yeah, by early 1990s the games couldn't quite beat the games that appeared on, say, Amiga - but I still use C64 for the games that were produced before those times. Those are classics, dammit.

And sometimes the PC folks can't make better games, even when they have vastly faster graphics and processor and more memory. Shame on them... =)

And they still haven't made a cooler sound synth chip than the good ol' SID...

Re:Commodore 64 web server

[spickus]

Actually it is a 6510 the VIC-20 was a 6502.

Re:Commodore 64 web server

[persist1]

Yah, gotta concur that "early Nineties" is about right. Hell, my Jr. Hi. Computer Literacy courses (1987/88) were taught on C64's; my HS still had a ][gs lab when I was there (you had to be enrolled in certain classes to use the PC lab, and I wasn't, bah).

I distinctly recall that they were still releasing loads of game titles, licensed from household-name properties, for the C64/128 as late as '88 or '89.

No matter what, C64/128 graphics smoked anything I saw on a desktop machine until the 386 had been around for a couple of years.

Where is all went wrong...

[active8or]

"Hey you guys! We FINALY got our Lisa server up an running..."

(and this is where it all goes wrong)

"...lets tell SHLASHDOT!"

CPU speed: 5 Mhz
FPU: None
motherboard RAM: 512 k
maximum RAM: 2MB (via 3rd party upgrade)

another webserver

[atari2600]

...and i got a webserver running on my Ericsson T19LX cell phone (custom made for AT&T) and connected thru a DSL line - i aint giving the link here - no way.

No, Slashdot *Posters* Don't Read!

[Brento]

You were close, but not quite right. The readers read just fine, it's the posters that don't read.

H-o-l-y shit!

[Anonymous Coward]

That is so fucking funny.

Poor Lisa, spare the old bitch!

[active8or]

Choose not to click!

no, YOU are behind the curve

[markj02]

The reference you provided says:

When we started the Lisa project in late 1978 our goal was to build a computer that would propel Apple in the business market of the 1980's.

If you actually look at the references I gave you, you'll see that the WIMP interface goes back to the late 1960s and early 1970s. Apple made some engineering enhancements, but they didn't invent the GUI.

mac lc ii server

[Hadlock]

i'm doing kinda the same thing...on 8 year newer equipment...circa 1992....has 10 megs of ram (upgraded from 4), sys 7.6.1 (upgraded from 6.5 or so), and a 1.2 gig scsi hd (upgraded from 40 MB)....i got it off ebay with the OS and ram upgrades already in there, plus it came with a rj-45 connection type eithernet card (10 base t)...i've seen as high as 700bps burst, and constants at about 450bps (streaming an mp3). i took out the fan, so it runs silently, puts out only 10 btu's more than the new powerbooks when they sleep (175 btus/hr), and it's rock steady (for my purposes)...1 month up and counting...even has aim, but i don't leave it on due to possible stability issues. makes an excellent http/telnet/ftp server, all with free software (mac has released up to os 8 i think for free on their site).

the server address is http://12.237.66.223/ by the way.

Re:mac lc ii server

[mrseigen]

I had my LC I serving pages before. Unfortunately, serving webpages over 33.6k dialup was not the best method.

Very Nice, but.....

[Anonymous Coward]

This is very nice and all, but I want to see my Timex/Sinclair 1000 (Sinclair ZX81 Clone) with a 1016 16K RAM Pack run a webserver with a 300 baud modem. And yes, you would have to press PLAY on the tape recorder to load in the program.

Slashdotting

[dxkelly]

Why do people post links to these ancient web servers? Does anyone think that a 5Mhz box with 512K-2M of ram is going to stand up to a slashdotting? Since we all know what's going to happen couldn't this be considered an intentional DOS?

Xerox made history long before Apple existed

[DannyKumamoto]

According to Apple,
they were incorp. in 1977.

While I have a Xerox PARC document that states:

"We have been teaching Smalltalk to children since the Spring of 1974" (Smalltalk in the Classroom by Adele Goldberg)

And on another document (Methods for Teaching Smalltalk, Goldberg & Kay, 1977), there is a picture of what looks like a MacPaint program -- written by a student between the ages of 9 and 15 (granted the program is an extension of code written by adults) up to 3 years before 1977! Note that Mac was originally released (with MacPaint) in 1984!

So you can say that Apple learned a thing or two from junior highschool students (with guidance from Xerox PARC staff) years before Lisa or Mac was available.

$45 for a Lisa?!

[Anonymous Coward]

If someone would sell me their Lisa for $45, I would be ecstatic.

Are there...

[deadgoon42]

any mirrors? :P

Re:does that mean.. (yes, sort of)

[Sleepy]

does that mean that there is some chance of getting my atari 1400ST running apache?

A serious reply to your jest: yes (sort of)

You can always run minix on your ST, for one.. and for another you can run Linux/68000 (or more properly said... you can TRY to run it :-)

I've always had an interest in reviving my ST as a terminal, to control an mpg123 playlist running on the Linux box. I like the "instant on" and "no noise" thing about the ST, but I'm too lazy to configure everything ;-)

Re:Repeat after me. What we need here is...

[nick-less]

A beowulf-cluster of Lisa's running machttp in a massive geriatric webfarm. Kind of a silicon heaven.

Well just find the place where they buried all the remaining Lisa's in the 80's[1] and your up and running ;-)

[1] Apple Legend

That's Nothing

[Deathlizard]

http://www.humanclock.com/webserver.php

It's a webserver on a Tandy 100 Portable computer

Hmmm

[42forty-two42]

Can anyone say "slashdot effect"?

Re:Hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Can anyone say...read the 5000 other retarded posts above you saying the exact same thing before you post?

Ohmygawd

[Julian Morrison]

A lisa 2,and you've sicced Slashdot on it?

You cruel, cruel person...

Nope

[ZigMonty]

You may be thinking of the Centris (not sure). The LCs were the Low Cost machines. They had processors like the 68LC040 instead of the 68040, 68LC030 instead of the 68030, etc. IIRC, these chips didn't have FPUs on chip and relied on software. They also skimped on expansion: only one RAM slot and one PDS (processor direct slot).

Check out EveryMac for a list of macs models by processor.

Re:Nope

[ZigMonty]

My bad. It seems like, from link I posted, that the LCIIIs and lower were based on the 68030 not the 68LC030. The LC475 (one I had) however *was* a 68LC040 machine. The Quadras were 68040 machines. So LCs definitely weren't rebadged Quadras. They were completely different lines.

Re:Nope

[EvilStein]

Not ALL Quadras were 68040s... ;)

It's tricky. Some of the Quadra 610s had the 68LC040 processor in them, some had full blown 68040s.
I've got a Quadra 610 with the 68LC040 in it. I was using it for a DNS server (MacOS 8.1, QuickDNS) for a really long time.

Re:Nope

[ZigMonty]

You've got to be kidding right? Apple had different processors in machines of the same model?! I only ever had a Q700 and recently used it as a NetBSD PPP-sharing server. Worked well. It was a 68040 machine. I had heard that the whole Quadra line were 68040s. I guess I need to brush up on my Apple trivia.

Re:Nope

[EvilStein]

I wish I was kidding... it appears to be a total mess they had going on back then. Almost as bad as the Performa line. Boy, am I glad that mess was cleaned up.... ;)

LISA....she's way hott!!!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

jesvs

it's just an apple lisa 2 running a web server that ran out of connections.

congratulations...you got 16 people to look at a web page simultaneously
Fvcking groundbreaking!

i bet that makes a lot of /.ers feel like they just woke up with an extra 6" tacked on their manhood - with all the posts about violent trashings and savagery against a computer

put down the d&d and vaseline!

LISA....hhehehheh...it's a girls name.....a REAL girl....maybe she'll talk to me!

It could be worse

[gila_monster]

One of my college roommates (this was about 16 years ago) managed to set up a Hewlett Packard HP-41CV calcuator as a terminal to a PDP 11/70. It was amazing how much effort he put into creating a 3 baud LCD terminal.

This was right before he fried the box by connecting it to a home-built 5 VDC power supply that had a 30 VAC hum.

gm

Linux m68k?

[SiMac]

Why couldn't the owner of this thing put Linux m68k on it and run some high-performance web server...no wait, Linux requires 2MB of RAM minimum...

Re:Linux m68k?

[mstrjon32]

Well you can put 2mb in a lisa, but, Linux m68k, as I recall, needs a 68020 or better, and a Lisa is 68000.

Handheld webserver is cooler

[blamanj]

C'mon, a Lisa had the same hardware that people were running Unix variants (Xenix, SCO) on, I don't see that making it a web server in any big deal (except that the hardware is still running).

Now this software, which lets you serve pages on a Newton handheld, pushes the envelope a bit.

A real vintage Apple server

[Faust7]

I'd like to see someone manage to even get an Apple ][ (the very first) up as a server. A little more RAM, a keyboard update (lowercase add-on), a ROM card, and boom! Not that you'd want to tell many people about it of course...

Slashdot Effect + Lisa2 = Dead Server

[jaydho]

You do the math.

I want to learn that!

[Anonymous Coward]

to make good programs that runs on so few ram and secondary storage!

programs are now better but bigger!
I want to make smaller and better!
where do i go?

Info on the Lisa 2

[Paladeen]

Hi there,

Heres www.Apple-History.com's info on the Lisa 2.

The Lisa/Lisa 2/Mac XL

Codename: Lisa
CPU: MC68000
CPU speed: 5 Mhz
FPU: None
motherboard RAM: 512 k
maximum RAM: 2MB (via 3rd party upgrade)
number of sockets: 2 -- lisa cards
minimum speed: n/a
ROM: 16k of diagnostic and bootstrap code present
L1 cache: n/a
L2 cache: n/a
data path: 16 bit
bus speed: 5 Mhz
slots: 3 Proprietary
SCSI: none
Serial Ports: 2 RS-232
Parallel Ports: 1 (dropped in Lisa 2/MacXL)
Floppy: 2 internal 871k 5.25" (400k Sony 3.5" in Lisa2/MacXL)
HD: 5 MB external (10MB in some configurations of Lisa 2/MacXL)
CD-ROM: none
Monitor: 12" 720 x 360 built-in (B/W)
Sound Input/Output: Continuously Variable Slope Demodulator (CVSD)
Ethernet: none
Gestalt ID: 2
power: 150 Watts
Weight: 48 lbs. Dimensions: 15.2" H x 18.7" W x 13.8" D
Min System Software: LisaOS
Max System Software: LisaOS/MacWorks
introduced: January 1983
terminated: August 1986

Thanks, David Craig

Named for one of its designer's daughters, the Lisa (pictured below left) was supposed to be the Next Big Thing. It was the first personal computer to use a Graphical User Interface. Aimed mainly at large businesses, Apple said the Lisa would increase productivity by making computers easier to work with. The Lisa had a Motorola 68000 Processor running at 5 Mhz, 1 MB of RAM two 5.25" 871k floppy drives, an external 5 MB hard drive, and a built in 12" 720 x 360 monochrome monitor. At $9,995 it was a plunge few businesses were willing to take. When the Macintosh came out in 1984 for significantly less money, it eroded the Lisa's credibility further. Realizing this, Apple released the Lisa 2 (pictured above right) at the same time as the Mac. The Lisa 2 cost half as much as the original, replaced the two 5.25" drives with a single 400k 3.5" drive, and offered configurations with up to 2 MB of RAM, and a 10 MB hard drive. In January 1985, the Lisa 2/10 was renamed the Macintosh XL, and outfitted with MacWorks, an emulator that allowed the Lisa to run the Mac OS. The XL was discontinued later that year.

Cheers,

Why not caching?

[slashdot_commentator]

I used to think that people were asking too much of VA software to cache article links; so much work, so much to ask of /.'s bandwidth. But it got me to thinking...

/.-ing really only occurs in the first 24 hours. Why couldn't a properly designed dynamic webpage set the link to a /. server cache, and after 24 hrs, reassign the link to the original server? This frees up the cache server(s) resources to cache the next day's stories.

I remember Taco(?) mentioning that it would be unfair to the server's advertisers, but I don't think its implausible to have someone contact the feature's producer and ask them permission to cache the story. Sure they lose the 1st day hits, but they were going to be /.-ed anyway. They still get the residual buzz from being a /. story (hopefully one that can handle residual /. traffic). Timeliness is a problem, but I've noticed many a story coming up weeks after its debut.

The level of caching service required is limited. /. puts up 15 new stories per day maximum. You're only going to cache "amateur" sites. I can't see why contact permission can't be handled by either the story editors or one person. The cache servers could be limited to a couple of machines. The cache process (and dumping) could be automated. Caching doesn't mean you need to provide for all the story server's services (if its special, tough luck).

So expenses are limited to time for personnel to contact server owners (not much for a "journalistic" enterprise), some hardware, and some bandwidth (already procured). The biggest expense would be to modify slashcode to support it and tools for caching. The economic benefit (more like cost offset) to VA would be the added hits that would be otherwise (not) going to the story's server. It also adds value to /.'s service by making available content that would not be accessible to its readers.

Is this really unfeasible?

Re:Why not caching?

[Lars T.]

I thought the point of this article was to check out a web server running on a particular (old) computer. Caching the content on that server kind of defeats that point.

you are a pervert.

[cpeterso]

old ladys.. damn..

Get Yer Red Hot Xenix!

[Anonymous Coward]

Tom, if you hit Google with "Lisa Xenix", I assure you that within the first screen the link you require will appear. Once you've downloaded that, back out a level in the url for more joy.

Double Live F*ckheads

[Anonymous Coward]

Gortician represents all that is wrong about MP3.com. They are an amateurish band playing fast death/grind metal with slower Candlemass-y doom moments. The "production" on this awful collection of live segments apparently recorded in various places is the worst I have ever heard. Nevertheless, the speaker-shattering boominess of certain tracks and the abominable sizzle of others still make it quite apparent that the songs themselves are the aural equivalent of a long-neglected litter pan, and that they certainly would not benefit from better recording conditions. Sub-bootleg sound is sometimes tolerable when the material is interesting, but this is clearly not the case.

This atrocious album is so bad I wouldn't dare to use the CD as a coaster lest it knock my glass over.

Review by Rog "the Frog" Billerey-Mosier

7/01