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I'm sorry to tell you this, but that dream, while nice, just isn't true. The government is getting ever more efficient about controlling the populace and defining "center" and "extreme" points of view. (hint: if the leaders don't approve, its extreme.) There will come a time when Americans are brainwashed into forgetting that America was created by bloodthirsty revolutionaries. Americans will start to care more about a government handout than a violation of civil rights. Americans will believe to ever-greater extents that if the Government does it, it must have been a good thing. Dissent will lose popularity and the dissenting will be quietly imprisoned or marginalized. God forbid, it will happen.

That's not going to happen, Obama is already planning an end run around the constitution by establishing a Civilian National Security Force

He plans to double the Peace Corps' budget by 2011, and expand AmeriCorps, USA Freedom Corps, VISTA, YouthBuild Program, and the Senior Corps. Plus, he proposes to form a Classroom Corps, Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, Veterans Corps, Homeland Security Corps, Global Energy Corps, and a Green Jobs Corps. Here a corps - there a corps - everywhere a corps corps. Obama's Civilian National Security Force

That sounds like a lot of poorly trained "troops" on the ground not restrained by the typical constitutional limits on authority and funding that the Army is under.

Expand Service-Learning in Our Nation's Schools: Obama and Biden will set a goal that all middle and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year. They will develop national guidelines for service- learning and will give schools better tools both to develop programs and to document student experience. Green Job Corps: Obama and Biden will create an energy-focused youth jobs program to provide disadvantaged youth with service opportunities weatherizing buildings and getting practical experience in fast-growing career fields. Barack Obama and Joe Biden's Plan for Universal Voluntary Public Service

So basically once anyone wanting a decent education will have to become one of Obama's brown shirts and submit to indoctrination the powers that be deem necessary. The eventual NASA cuts will just be part of the "throw the baby out with the bathwater" approach typical of radical anti-estabishmentarians.

Big suprise. Lawyer wants more laws. I don't think this would happen under obama's watch who has clearly stated the preservation of an "open" internet and "net neutrality". Furthermore, he regularly seeks counsel from the EFF. See obama state his tech policy on this page. I understand that saying and doing are two complete different things. The article; however, is speculation and ignores the president's stated policy. I'm sure the EFF would have commented on this if they thought it was a concern. They havn't and I doubt they missed obama's speculated appointment.

The only problem I had with Obama was his vague speeches (hope, blah blah change etc) it seemed to say nice sounding things but not give any detail (lots of room for being weaselly letter on).
change.gov seemed 48 hours after Obama was elected to have (under the title agenda) a detailed policy list. This however disappeared quite quickly. Another site however seems to have all his policy details but is by a group called Obama for America, who are they, please post if you have any detail.

"NEXT GENERATION SPACE PROPULSION/BUSINESS" on: http://churchcapt.proboards42.com/ http://captchurch.proboards98.com/ http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=24582 http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=15311 http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?user=ChurchCaptain *Wisdom for Teens* http://groups.google.com/group/TeenAnswers http://communities.righthealth.com/group/sosmayday http://groups.google.com/group/answers-for-teens [All groups:::5 permanent monographs & no chat like, "Who are YOU?!?" , "The useless War of the Sexes" and "LOVE is the Real Thing".] Jim Sorrell [CaptainChurch] Be a Good Neighbor~ "Love your neighbour as yourself."means, see to it that your neighbour has it just as good as you do, self-lessly! "Who is my neighbour?" EveryOne on the planet! All humans born are @ least 33rd or 34th cousins [from Noah's 3 sons: we are All related family!] http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/CaptainChurch http://groups.google.com/group/TeenAnswers http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/SOS_MayDay http://groups.google.com/group/answers-for-teens http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThisFatherKnowsBest http://blogs.albawaba.com/captainchurch James Sorrell [CaptainChurch] Arcata, CA james.sorrell@yahoo.com or CaptainChurch@gmail.com

"NEXT GENERATION SPACE PROPULSION/BUSINESS" on: http://churchcapt.proboards42.com/ http://captchurch.proboards98.com/ http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=24582 http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=15311 http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?user=ChurchCaptain *Wisdom for Teens* http://groups.google.com/group/TeenAnswers http://communities.righthealth.com/group/sosmayday http://groups.google.com/group/answers-for-teens [~~~All groups:::5 permanent monographs & no chat~~~ like, "Who are YOU?!?" , "The useless War of the Sexes" and "LOVE is the Real Thing".] Jim Sorrell [CaptainChurch] ~Be a Good Neighbor "Love your neighbour as yourself."means, see to it that your neighbour has it just as good as you do, self-lessly! "Who is my neighbour?"EveryOne on the planet! All humans born are @ least 33rd or 34th cousins [from Noah's 3 sons: we are All related family!] http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/CaptainChurch http://groups.google.com/group/TeenAnswers http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/SOS_MayDay http://groups.google.com/group/answers-for-teens http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThisFatherKnowsBest http://blogs.albawaba.com/captainchurch James Sorrell [CaptainChurch] Arcata, CA james.sorrell@yahoo.com or CaptainChurch@gmail.com

Subject: PLEASE help save young, vulnerable lives with this volunteer effort {NO $$$ asked}~ SUICIDE VACCINE works for peace [so does "Race relations & prejudice", on the major web sites below] SV saved many lives of the refugees of Hurricane's Katrina/Rita/Wilma~ * This is for ALL you know......please help me spread this to save lives......this is NOT "religion", this is Reality, objective reality! S.O.S.MayDay "Suicidal thoughts, up since Katrina, PTSD survey says" WASHINGTON (AP)"Using anti-depressants Increases the risk of Suicidal thoughts and behavior among young people" Suicide rate among girls skyrockets 76%, says Centers for Disease Control & Prevention" *AP: Half of 2005 gun deaths were suicides {CDC-gov-July 2008} Please help me save young [ & old] lives, now NEEDLESSLY lost! Help spread these volunteer sites [NO $$$ asked] planet-wide and express real empathy!~~~Impulsive Depression/Suicide is Endable! SUICIDE VACCINE [It works, which is the only point, Eh?!] http://churchcapt.proboards42.com/ http://captchurch.proboards98.com/ http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=24582 http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=15311 http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?user=ChurchCaptain *Wisdom for Teens* http://groups.google.com/group/TeenAnswers http://communities.righthealth.com/group/sosmayday http://groups.google.com/group/answers-for-teens [All groups:::5 permanent monographs & no chat, like, "Who are YOU?!?" , "The useless War of the Sexes" and "LOVE is the Real Thing".] http://www.bev.net/users/homepages/JamesSorrell [My first web page-2003] Jim Sorrell [CaptainChurch] Be a Good Neighbor "Love your neighbour as yourself."means, see to it that your neighbour has it just as good as you do, self-lessly!~~~ "Who is my neighbour?" EveryOne on the planet! All humans born are @ least 33rd or 34th cousins [from Noah's 3 sons: we are All related family!] http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/CaptainChurch http://groups.google.com/group/TeenAnswers http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/SOS_MayDay http://groups.google.com/group/answers-for-teens http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThisFatherKnowsBest http://blogs.albawaba.com/captainchurch James Sorrell [CaptainChurch] Arcata, CA james.sorrell@yahoo.com or CaptainChurch@gmail.com

My biggest beef with the NY Times is that, particularly since Obama was elected, it's been piece after piece about the 'barrier-breaking' historical significance of the event;

I think that is likely because it was a historically significant, barrier-breaking event. I don't disagree that the # of articles saying such has become overwhelming, but that is hardly unexpected.

the guy has gotten a big pass on making substantive policy statements just because he's such a 'game-changer.'

I kept seeing this all the time during the campaign, and it made no sense then either. His website has a very long list on its issues page, each with links to more detailed policy positions. There *is* a wealth of information out there on his policy preferences and stances. He certainly does not stand up and read such policy papers...because that would be *boring*. However, they exist, and in more detail than the 90% of voters care about (shit, I clicked on a random issue..."rural" and got a 13 page policy paper).

Additionally, it is pretty traditional that a president-elect not encroach too much on the current president's arena, the whole "There is only one president" construct. Lame duck though he may be, Bush is still the only one who gets to fulfill presidential duties for another couple months.

but I think we let him skate by, particularly in the debates, with a lot of vague promises.

That is no different than the treatment McCain got (ie his proclamation that he would balance the federal budget in 4 years followed by no actual discussion or questioning of what combination of spending cuts or revenue increases could produce such an situation) Debates have turned into pablum (for the leading candidate) and sound-bite attacks (for the trailing candidate), and the actual information content is just a dribble.

I'll celebrate him being a game-changer once the game has actually changed.

Well that's the point of those congratulatory articles...election of a black man has changed the game on one level. You can now tell little black boys (but not white or black girls, or homosexual, or native american, or etc etc) that they could grow up to be president and have it be more than theoretical fantasy. That is a major change for the country. Will Obama be successful as a president? Will he be able to improve governance? As you point out, that still remains to be seen.

-Ted

It's a refundable credit:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/

Near the bottom:
"This universal and fully refundable credit will ensure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for most Americans, and will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university and make community college tuition completely free for most students. Recipients of the credit will be required to conduct 100 hours of community service."

They did talk about it, actually. There was also a YouTube video, one of the "Blueprint for Change" series.

Whether or not it's a good thing... I don't know. It seems perhaps a bit much to force students to help out... but then, it could do some serious good as well.

If this becomes mandatory, it will be bad. It reminds me of Animal Farm where the puppies got taken away. Here is some more information on it:

Barack Obama was a founding member of the board of Public Allies in 1992, resigning before his wife became executive director of the Chicago chapter of Public Allies in 1993. Obama plans to use the nonprofit group, which he features on his campaign Web site, as the model for a national service corps. He calls his Orwellian program, "Universal Voluntary Public Service."

Big Brother had nothing on the Obamas. They plan to herd American youth into government-funded reeducation camps where they'll be brainwashed into thinking America is a racist, oppressive place in need of "social change."

The pitch Public Allies makes on its Web site doesn't seem all that radical. It promises to place young adults (18-30) in paid one-year "community leadership" positions with nonprofit or government agencies. They'll also be required to attend weekly training workshops and three retreats.

In exchange, they'll get a monthly stipend of up to $1,800, plus paid health and child care. They also get a post-service education award of $4,725 that can be used to pay off past student loans or fund future education.

But its real mission is to radicalize American youth and use them to bring about "social change" through threats, pressure, tension and confrontation â" the tactics used by the father of community organizing, Saul "The Red" Alinsky.

...

Not all the recruits appreciate the PC indoctrination. "It was too touchy-feely," said Nelly Nieblas, 29, of the 2005 Los Angeles class. "It's a lot of talk about race, a lot of talk about sexism, a lot of talk about homophobia, talk about -isms and phobias."

One of those -isms is "heterosexism," which a Public Allies training seminar in Chicago describes as a negative byproduct of "capitalism, white supremacy, patriarchy and male-dominated privilege."

The government now funds about half of Public Allies' expenses through Clinton's AmeriCorps. Obama wants to fully fund it and expand it into a national program that some see costing $500 billion. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded" as the military, he said.

The gall of it: The Obamas want to create a boot camp for radicals who hate the military â" and stick American taxpayers with the bill.

Read the whole thing HERE

I still shudder at the scent of lox and gefilte...

Then read this!

Try promising improvement and you'll get my attention.

Two years of debates, at least 20 in the primary and three in the general. Unremitting press coverage. Two books, one specifically on Obama's political philosophy, written by the candidate in his own hand. Huge websites with encyclopedic overview of everything the candidate intends to do. This country's (to date) most expensive political television ad compaign, with issue ads, attack ads, 527s, the whole schmear.

I admit I am having trouble finding the "promise of improvement," but then again I can never see the Angeles national forest when I drive through it: there's too many trees on either side of the road and they obscure the view.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/NuclearPower

Barack is not so much against the idea as he is the implementation. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to realize that much of the implementation problems are caused by the regulations around nuclear power. Waste disposal in particular is problematic because the government requires waste disposal rather than reuse and reprocessing. (I'm not going to go into the full details of the issue, but let's just say that it was a pointless attempt to prevent terrorists from getting Nuclear bombs. More security theater.)

The Obama tax plan reaffirms the Bush tax cuts on all but the highest brackets past 2010; the salient change is that the $250k bracket simply returns to where it was when Bush took office: see here. In the end, the total tax rate of the country is still below where it was during the Reagan administration. It's astonishing to think we went through the first decade of expansion this century without collecting any money to pay down our debt; through the 50s, the highest brakcet had a marginal tax rate of over 90%, in order to pay down our war debt, and that was a tax code submitted by a Republican congress and signed by Eisenhower. At the time thus amounted to a huge wealth redistribution since the paper on the war debt was in war bonds, which were universally subscribed, not to mention the costs of the GI Bill and Marshall plan, which educated millions and could also be considered a form of debt repayment or infrastructure invetment.

When Hoover raised taxes in 1932, it caused a complete economic collapse of an already precarious situation.

It didn't help that he wasn't spending much; if we trim up taxation while spending gobs on infrastructure like in 1933. Of course back then, they didn't have $10 trillion in debt.

They did talk about it, actually. There was also a YouTube video, one of the "Blueprint for Change" series.

Whether or not it's a good thing... I don't know. It seems perhaps a bit much to force students to help out... but then, it could do some serious good as well.

Barack Obama's stance on just about everything.

Bloody, hell, that;s the most informative site on political ideas I've seen in a while. It's definitely not vague about what the problems are and how he intends to solve them. The page on ethics in particular doesn't pull any punches.

His tax ideas nearly made me want to travel back in time and emigrate to the US just so I could vote for him. The world looks like a much brighter place now that I've read that site.

(I worry a bit about the euphoria I'm suddenly feeling. What the hell was in my breakfast?)

Barack Obama's stance on just about everything.

Bloody, hell, that;s the most informative site on political ideas I've seen in a while. It's definitely not vague about what the problems are and how he intends to solve them. The page on ethics in particular doesn't pull any punches.

His tax ideas nearly made me want to travel back in time and emigrate to the US just so I could vote for him. The world looks like a much brighter place now that I've read that site.

(I worry a bit about the euphoria I'm suddenly feeling. What the hell was in my breakfast?)

Ok let's just take this one

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreign_policy/index.php#diplomacy



Ok the problem is defined by him so we can for go that now line by line



"Talk" What is he going to talk about? How will he rally the world behind America? Sanctions? Deals? Arms reduction? Just says we have to talk.



"Israeli" How will they make a sustained push? Threats? Attacks? Money? Last time I looked people have been pushing those two to be at peace for a couple of thousand years



"Expand" Open more consulates but do we do that in countries we do not formally recognize? How about the ones that are openly hostile to America? How much will the cost in terms of real money since we will have to staff this sites and provide protection. What will the expanded foreign service mean?



"Fight" Cut poverty by half in which countries? Does this include Americans? How can we quantify half by 2015? 10,000/yr in a poor country is not a one to relationship to 10,000/yr in a prosperous country what are the guidelines?



"Strength" Rally which NATO countries? To do what? and where he wants to pull us out of Afghanistan and Iraq? Are we moving forces to other countries are the NATO commands going to have supervision over US troops? Who is going to streamline what decision-making process? Attacking? Aid? Retreating? "Seek" What type of framework? Money? Will this include trade? and if so how will bring more Asian products into the American economy affect us? How will he promote stability? Military? Money? People?



Again all that is stated is ideas of what he thinks is wrong. Where is the plan to get from A to B? Increase military spending? Taxing? More trips to other countries to buy their products? All I ask it what is he going to do and you post links and even then you say your bored of pasting links. There is nothing of substance in any of the links you have provided just talk.



I will get up each day and work to make my workplace a better place to work.

I will work toward bringing happiness to others in my area and down the hall by pushing hard for this happiness.

I will spend time everyday giving my supervisors more flexibility with assignments.



Nothing of substance just words not how I will accomplish this nothing.

When Bush asked for help, he told us to shop. And the majority of Americans did so. Outside of that, I can't think of a single thing Bush asked us to do.

Do all the finger pointing you want. Here are links to specific policy initiatives on Obama's website. It will be easier for you to keep saying that Obama has no plans if you don't read them, however.

The Economy:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/index.php

Education:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/index.php

Energy:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/newenergy

Ethics:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ethics/index.php

Foreign Policy:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreign_policy/index.php

Etc, etc. I'm bored of copying and pasting links. You can find the rest here:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

I see more than enough specific policy initiates to keep he and the Democratic congress working for at least 4 years.

When Bush asked for help, he told us to shop. And the majority of Americans did so. Outside of that, I can't think of a single thing Bush asked us to do.

Do all the finger pointing you want. Here are links to specific policy initiatives on Obama's website. It will be easier for you to keep saying that Obama has no plans if you don't read them, however.

The Economy:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/index.php

Education:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/index.php

Energy:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/newenergy

Ethics:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ethics/index.php

Foreign Policy:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreign_policy/index.php

Etc, etc. I'm bored of copying and pasting links. You can find the rest here:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

I see more than enough specific policy initiates to keep he and the Democratic congress working for at least 4 years.

When Bush asked for help, he told us to shop. And the majority of Americans did so. Outside of that, I can't think of a single thing Bush asked us to do.

Do all the finger pointing you want. Here are links to specific policy initiatives on Obama's website. It will be easier for you to keep saying that Obama has no plans if you don't read them, however.

The Economy:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/index.php

Education:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/index.php

Energy:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/newenergy

Ethics:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ethics/index.php

Foreign Policy:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreign_policy/index.php

Etc, etc. I'm bored of copying and pasting links. You can find the rest here:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

I see more than enough specific policy initiates to keep he and the Democratic congress working for at least 4 years.

When Bush asked for help, he told us to shop. And the majority of Americans did so. Outside of that, I can't think of a single thing Bush asked us to do.

Do all the finger pointing you want. Here are links to specific policy initiatives on Obama's website. It will be easier for you to keep saying that Obama has no plans if you don't read them, however.

The Economy:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/index.php

Education:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/index.php

Energy:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/newenergy

Ethics:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ethics/index.php

Foreign Policy:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreign_policy/index.php

Etc, etc. I'm bored of copying and pasting links. You can find the rest here:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

I see more than enough specific policy initiates to keep he and the Democratic congress working for at least 4 years.

When Bush asked for help, he told us to shop. And the majority of Americans did so. Outside of that, I can't think of a single thing Bush asked us to do.

Do all the finger pointing you want. Here are links to specific policy initiatives on Obama's website. It will be easier for you to keep saying that Obama has no plans if you don't read them, however.

The Economy:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/index.php

Education:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/index.php

Energy:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/newenergy

Ethics:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ethics/index.php

Foreign Policy:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreign_policy/index.php

Etc, etc. I'm bored of copying and pasting links. You can find the rest here:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

I see more than enough specific policy initiates to keep he and the Democratic congress working for at least 4 years.

When Bush asked for help, he told us to shop. And the majority of Americans did so. Outside of that, I can't think of a single thing Bush asked us to do.

Do all the finger pointing you want. Here are links to specific policy initiatives on Obama's website. It will be easier for you to keep saying that Obama has no plans if you don't read them, however.

The Economy:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/index.php

Education:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/index.php

Energy:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/newenergy

Ethics:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ethics/index.php

Foreign Policy:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreign_policy/index.php

Etc, etc. I'm bored of copying and pasting links. You can find the rest here:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

I see more than enough specific policy initiates to keep he and the Democratic congress working for at least 4 years.

You mean like this? Or is 83 pages of specific proposals in small type not concrete enough for you?

It's not written in crayon with lots of pictures. Can't expect Americans to read it.

Barack Obama's stance on just about everything. I hear this argument a lot that he's just saying "change" without any concrete ideas for how to do so, but it's simply incorrect. The campaign's series of YouTube videos starting with "Blueprint for Change" also details what he'll actually do as president: You can watch the Obama campaign's videos here.

None of the candidates have provided much in the way of concrete plans, much to my frustration.

You mean like this? Or is 83 pages of specific proposals in small type not concrete enough for you?

Did you bother to read what I wrote? Lazy people who are not contributing are in fact not going to get money back. Furthermore, right now, "welfare" (properly known as Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) is time-limited and contingent on effort to seek employment.

Regarding Obama's tax plan, you have to be gainfully employed if you wish to get any tax credit. I suggest page 2, where it says "the 'Making Work Pay' credit will provide a refundable tax cut of $500 for workers or $1,000 for working couples"

Let me tell you about economies of scale. You can afford to buy a big screen TV, surround sound stereo, and multi-core computer, only because there is a vast American middle class with significant disposable income who create a market for millions of these devices. The huge cost of designing these things is amortized across the volume of product produced.

Now, recently, the GDP fell 0.3% due to a 3.1% fall in consumer spending, which makes up 70% of GDP. If the disposable income continues to decrease, the middle class will vanish, economies of scale will shrink, and everything will suddenly cost a lot more, because there will be fewer items to amortize high initial costs.

Then companies...like, say, GM or Chrysler, end up selling fewer products and have to cut jobs and production, which further reduces the size of the middle class, creating a vicious cycle.

No...the govt. is a necessary 'evil' for some things, but, please don't put in in charge of my very living health!!

From what I understand of Obama's plan, you could still keep your regular health insurance plan. The idea is to make sure that there is at least some health care available to everyone and that all children are covered in some way. You can still keep your existing health plan. It focuses more on providing preventative care such as routine physicals and various types of screenings. This should help people catch problems earlier before they end up becoming much harder to treat and a lot more expensive, which we'll end up paying for when the person shows up in the emergency room.

It makes a lot of sense. Existing plans continue. Everyone is covered for the basics, leading to better general health and lower costs to taxpayers for emergency care and hospitalization. The info on the full plan is available. As is the FAQ.

McCain and Obama are presenting plans that have a lot more similarities than differences. They are both fairly vague, both in the reforms they will make, coverage they will provide, and how they will be paid for. A lot of that will be up to Congress to decide anyway. The plans seem to set the goals, and then they're going to have to fight to meet as many of those goals as they can. That's going to be tough in the current financial situation.

No...the govt. is a necessary 'evil' for some things, but, please don't put in in charge of my very living health!!

From what I understand of Obama's plan, you could still keep your regular health insurance plan. The idea is to make sure that there is at least some health care available to everyone and that all children are covered in some way. You can still keep your existing health plan. It focuses more on providing preventative care such as routine physicals and various types of screenings. This should help people catch problems earlier before they end up becoming much harder to treat and a lot more expensive, which we'll end up paying for when the person shows up in the emergency room.

It makes a lot of sense. Existing plans continue. Everyone is covered for the basics, leading to better general health and lower costs to taxpayers for emergency care and hospitalization. The info on the full plan is available. As is the FAQ.

McCain and Obama are presenting plans that have a lot more similarities than differences. They are both fairly vague, both in the reforms they will make, coverage they will provide, and how they will be paid for. A lot of that will be up to Congress to decide anyway. The plans seem to set the goals, and then they're going to have to fight to meet as many of those goals as they can. That's going to be tough in the current financial situation.

at least by my count, below-the-belt attacks were at an all time high.

Can you elaborate? What do you consider to be "below-the-belt"? People mocking her when she said stupid things? People pointing out her lack of experience and knowledge? People laughing at her un-presidential mannerisms and speech?

Here's a below-the-belt comment. Most Slashdot comments aren't quite that bad, but of course there's a whole spectrum of vileness. I've seen things just as bad posted about Obama. On the internet this year, it's been nasty all around.

Some people command respect. Palin isn't one of them.

I guess my views are more like Barack Obama's than yours: "Every human being deserves to live with dignity and respect." -- Barack Obama

Q. Won't my employer drop coverage?

A. No. Employers who do not offer meaningful coverage to their employees will have to contribute a percentage of their payroll to help offset the cost of providing coverage to all Americans. In most cases, this will eliminate an employer's incentive to drop coverage. Some small employers will be exempt from this requirement.

Those are the best details I can come up with...

How did you miss the 14-page PDF on the same page you pulled your quotes from?
http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/PreK-12EducationFactSheet.pdf

Try reading Obama's actual policy, not what someone accidentally said in a speech. http://www.barackobama.com/taxes/

Both Sen. McCain and Sen. Obama agree that education needs to be thoroughly reformed.

Who needs education aimed at making the students cram for tests only for the ego of the schools? What good is it if your child forgets everything after them? That doesn't help at all. This, to me, is the core of the issue. Rankings. As an aside, No Child Left Behind makes extensive use of those, to determine which schools should get additional funding.

What I'd like to see is a school system that doesn't focus so much on rankings, fudging scores to get a higher one, pressuring the underprivileged and underscoring to drop out in the process. Those people deserve undiscriminating education too, and equal access to education is something both candidates advocate.

The parents who got complacent will (hopefully) get going with this one, too! Choice quotes from each candidate:

McCain Parental involvement is critical to the success of any pre-K program. Current federal programs will be focused on educating parents on the basics of preparing their children for a productive educational experience. These programs will place an emphasis on reading and numbers skills, as well as nutrition and general health. Reinforcing to parents the fundamental importance of reading to their children as a primary way of expanding their vocabulary and preparing their young minds to learn will be emphasized at every level.

Obama (PDF warning) Investing in early childhood education during the infant and toddler years is particularly critical. Though parents remain the first teachers for our children, an increasing number of infants and toddlers spend significant parts of their day with caretakers other than their parents. In addition to ensuring that child care is accessible and affordable, we must do more to ensure that it is high quality and provides the early education experiences our children need.

Both agree that a child's education starts with the parents' involvement in it. It's common sense to some, I'll admit, but:

Obama Research shows that early experiences shape whether a child's brain develops strong skills for future learning, behavior and success. Without a strong base on which to build, children, particularly disadvantaged children, will be behind long before they reach kindergarten. Investing in early learning also makes economic sense. For every one dollar invested in high quality, comprehensive programs supporting children and families from birth, there is a $7-$10 return to society in decreased need for special education services, higher graduation and employment rates, less crime, less use of the public welfare system, and better health.

The schools have a responsibility in children's education, but then so do the parents! And not just for education, either. Providing healthy food to one's child(ren) is essential to their proper development. Care and affection given to one's child(ren) cannot be replaced by anyone else, and is also essential.

The Govt has a role, but it's not the silver bullet.

(Disclaimer: I'm Canadian, but I'm quite interested in this election.)

MAYBE Obama will get rid of NCLB, but I don't see him getting away from the typical left position of supporting the teachers' unions goals and just throwing money at education without real standards.

He plans on reforming it, not eliminating it. From his site:

Reform No Child Left Behind: Obama and Biden will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law. Obama and Biden believe teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. He will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner. Obama and Biden will also improve NCLB's accountability system so that we are supporting schools that need improvement, rather than punishing them.

What I emphasized does seem to align with your assessment of throwing money at the problem. Those are the best details I can come up with so don't ask me how he plans to improve accountability ... I wish he had thrown out some metrics or requirements that he was aiming for. But if he did that, we might be able to hold him to it!

Citizens in less populated state have more of a vote than citizens in more populated states.

Worse than that, only battleground-state citizen count at all. When is the last time California, New York, Utah or Texas got some attention from a presidential candidate? Instead, Ohio, Florida, Missouri and a few others steal all the show. I was reading on Obama's website for the state of Alaska, and I found out that their activism is *gasp* calling people in Colorado and Nevada!

The absurd thing is, I heard arguments going like "with the electoral college the candidates have to consider the countryside, not just the large cities"! But obviously, when campaigning in Florida and Ohio, candidates do concentrate on cities—that's where most people are. Plus, sparsely populated states like Idaho, Wyoming and Kansas will never get a visit because they are so skewed for one side.

Personally I find the electoral vote insulting: it makes the votes of the majority of the population of the US almost useless, since they already know who is going to win their state: this makes their vote useless not just in a predicted landslide (as the current election), but also in elections where it comes down to a few votes, like 2000 and 2004. And people wonder why so few Americans bother to vote at all?

The Obama campaign will almost certainly send out text message updates with election results from their point of view. Details (and other text commands) are at http://www.barackobama.com/mobile. If you want lots of updates text FOLLOW BARACKOBAMA to 40404 or use Twitter. (I can't find anything similar from the McCain campaign.) Or better yet you can get a life and volunteer now through Election Day (and even a little beyond) for your preferred candidate running at any level. It's far more enjoyable and interesting than sitting next to a bunch of buzzing electronics.

This in spite of the flat commandment against presuming to speak with His authority.

Obama doesn't pander with it, doesn't use it for votes. But watch Obama's 2006 speech on the proper role of religion in public life.

I think that fully answers both the parent's point and about a quarter of the people in Texas.

Right now, for most Americans, their employer decides, who their health-insurer will be, which, by extensions, decides, who their doctors will be.

McCain's plan is to give kill that setup for good by removing the tax-breaks employers currently get for providing it — Obama was right to comment, that McCain's plan would destroy the current arrangements. Where Obama is mistaken (or misleading) is in implying, that would be a bad thing, for some reason. Instead, McCain wants each of us to be free to buy health insurance wherever we want — if we want it. He'll compensate for the loss of health-related tax-break to businesses with tax-credits directly to us, and we'll no longer have to associate changing (or loosing!) a job with changing (or losing) health-care coverage. The Illiberals hate that plan for (I kid you not): leaving the decision-making process up to individuals.

Obama's desire, even if it is not immediately obvious to an untrained eye from his public speeches, is to have a Single-Payer health-plan, where the government will be making the payments, and thus, automatically, the decisions. The current employer-selected plan will die just as surely as in McCain's plan (what Obama does not tell you), but it will be replaced by something far worse, not better.

So, here are the choices:

1. People decide for themselves — as per John McCain.
2. Employers decide for the employees — the current situation.
3. The government decides for everyone — as per Barack Obama.

Make your pick...

One of the better arguments I've seen for fixing the current health care crisis can be seen here

What your linked reference is describing is buy-in to the Federal Employees Health Benefit Program by small businesses and individuals. (The FEHBP is what members of Congress get.) That is an element of Barack Obama's health proposal. He provides other options, but that one is in there. Look at the sixth bullet under "Make Health Insurance Work for People and Businesses" at http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/ That is essentially what the author of the reference is proposing.

Regarding the "socialism" arguments, when health insurance was first proposed in the 1930's it was attacked as socialism. Remember, at the time it was private health insurance, but was still attacked as socialism. When it started it was limited then to hospital insurance, because the American Medical Association was strenuously opposed. Eventually medical insurance was added and the hospital and medical providers (mostly the "blues") merged.

Health insurance as a job benefit didn't happen until World War II, when employers were prevented from raising wages and were looking for things they could add to attract employees. HMO's started about then with Henry Kaiser, who had to attract employees to build Liberty and Victory ships that carried supplies during the war. The HMO's significantly expanded in the 1970's. That was when the insurance companies other than the original "blues" got involved. The HMO's started out as non-profit or university-based systems and the for-profit insurance industry moved in.

Alright, after reading a bit on both their websites, I'm going to try to state the facts and my opinion.

McCain : Actually puts numbers out there on how much you're going to "save" according to your tax bracket. But it's confusing to me how one column is showing a flat tax credit of $5,000 for this and then another column (after factoring something called "Income Tax Liability") showing what you save. He concentrates on guaranteeing me a "Better than Congressman" health care plan when I have no idea in hell what kind of health care they get. He also spends more time talking about Obama's health care plan than his own--which I would prefer to read myself and draw my own conclusions. I guess he focuses more on "net tax benefit" to each tax payer which sounds very enticing from a utilitarian standpoint.

Obama : First off, his health care page has a lot of really bland generic bullshit slurry--quite different from his Iraq withdrawal plan. While he doesn't spend anytime attacking McCain's plan, I don't see how some of these bullets are going to do anything for Health Care. Every talking point sounds good but nowhere do I see a plan of A) how/when this will be implemented or B) what the net effect will really be. For example: "Reduce the costs of catastrophic illnesses for employers and their employees." What is a "catastrophic illness"? Reduce by how much? Who's footing this bill? What percentage is going to the employer Vs the employee? While he offers some lengthy PDFs on his site (that I don't have a lot of time to read), I'm skeptical he has any objective, measurable, attainable goals.

So that's my quick take on this topic. Honestly, I'm not impressed with either candidate. I give a nod to McCain for actually throwing some numbers out there and wonder where the $2,500 per family figure is coming from in Obama's promises. This isn't going to factor into my voting because the roots of this. I grew up on MinnesotaCare so I'm probably going to lean toward the plan that makes the most of providing basic health care to those who can't afford it. My parents never could have afforded vaccinations and I don't think I ever went to the hospital aside from that. Others aren't so lucky. Call me biased or misinformed but I don't see either candidate really doing anything creative/ingenious with health care to the point of it being worth arguing over.

Even if we buy your argument, Barack is no more Marxist than anyone else in congress since they all support the tax system as it is now, so your point is moot. As far as the "we don't know the size of his tax cut." I am surprised at your ignorance. The exact size of his tax cut has been known for many months. Here is a link to the calculator that will give you an exact accounting of how much you'd get back under his plan http://taxcut.barackobama.com/?source=sem-pm-fts-tc-search-us&gclid=COGh0aODz5YCFQOcFQodcAzy2A

His plan to get out sounds a lot like McCains...a "responsible phased approach". Note too that Obama also plans to leave residual forces there, much like McCain proposes.

This from BHO's website:

"A Responsible, Phased Withdrawal

Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe we must be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in. Immediately upon taking office, Obama will give his Secretary of Defense and military commanders a new mission in Iraq: ending the war. The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government. Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 - more than 7 years after the war began.

Under the Obama-Biden plan, a residual force will remain in Iraq and in the region to conduct targeted counter-terrorism missions against al Qaeda in Iraq and to protect American diplomatic and civilian personnel. They will not build permanent bases in Iraq, but will continue efforts to train and support the Iraqi security forces as long as Iraqi leaders move toward political reconciliation and away from sectarianism."

Well, there's only been one candidate who has been consistent in his stance about the Iraq war for the entire time -- Barack Obama. And it's a stance I agree with -- the Iraq War is a farce. It is a war on false pretense. We need to leave as soon as humanly possible. Really.

You should probably mention that the "as soon as humanly possible" part of that statement is your own opinion. This is what Obama says on his website:

A Responsible, Phased Withdrawal

Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe we must be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in. Immediately upon taking office, Obama will give his Secretary of Defense and military commanders a new mission in Iraq: ending the war. The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government. Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 â" more than 7 years after the war began.

Under the Obama-Biden plan, a residual force will remain in Iraq and in the region to conduct targeted counter-terrorism missions against al Qaeda in Iraq and to protect American diplomatic and civilian personnel. They will not build permanent bases in Iraq, but will continue efforts to train and support the Iraqi security forces as long as Iraqi leaders move toward political reconciliation and away from sectarianism.

"Fast as humanly possible" would be irresponsible. For the troops to just up and leave in one day (which we probably could evacuate them if it were ordered) would be devastating. Stop spreading fear that's going to alienate undecideds, moderates and maybe even Republicans who aren't afraid to vote Democrat.

You may want to run your numbers again.

If you make less than six figures Obama's tax plan will reduce your federal tax.

What utter bullshit. Obama isn't to the "right" of anything. Not that it matters anway -- the current election isn't right vs. left. It's globalist vs. globalist.

In any case, Google presents us with a fair definition of Socialism:

"An economic system in which the basic means of production are primarily owned and controlled collectively, usually by government under some system ..."

Let's look at the current big picture ...

• Diminishing material production within our borders (China)
• Increased government involvement in industry (through handouts, regulation and mandates to private companies)
• Nationalization of big banks
• Bailouts of big enterprise

... with various elements that Obama proposes in his Blueprint for Change (PDF) ...

• Increased government involvement in industry (through handouts, regulation and mandates to private companies)
• Government health care
• Free government funded secondary education
• Creation of more government jobs
• Redistribution of wealth and tax cuts for those who don't pay taxes
• And too many other new federal programs and/or funding to list here

How can you NOT see that this is a continuation of our current path to socialism disguised under the guise of positive "change?" Saying that Obama is not a socialist does not change the fact that a significant portion of his platform reeks of socialist principles.

The economic system at this point, and even with Obama as president, may not be completely "collectively controlled," but his role as president would surely solidify that direction in ways that are not easily reversible (what government dependent society would ever vote for more self-reliance and self-responsibility?).

. . .

Not that I should have to rehash this, but from Obama's own mouth:

"It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got chance at success too. I think that when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." -- Obama to "Joe the Plumber"

Regardless of what you may think about the JoeThePlumber bullshit (yes, it is bullshit, but the point here is not Joe/McLame, it is what Obama believes), the fact that he thinks that stealing from one person to give to another should terrify every American.

Equal opportunity does not mean equal share.

And for the record, McCain isn't any better.

If you really want change, vote for any of the third party candidate (heck, even the 2 Socialist candidates -- at least they own it) and get your friends/family to do the same. If enough people would quit holding their nose when they vote, we'd break the cycle of these bullshit non-choices every four years.

Sorry to break it to you, but having studied is career and history, you are just lying.

Lying to whom about what? I'm forecasting here. You can attempt to provide your own forecast, but 'liar liar pants of fire' doesn't seem all that persuasive to me.

McCain totally changed all his stances, cozied up to the republicans and surrounded himself with the same people as Bush.

Yes. McCain is who he needs to be whenever it suits him. But there can be little doubt that he will hold to his current position that 'war = good', because after all, he thinks we won in Vietnam. I'm not sure where you're going, but if you took me as pro-McCain just because I'm not impressed by Obama, well, that's on you.

"He wants to trade soldiers for secular employees, true. "

Cite?

Please don't assume that when I wrote "I looked it up" that I did not in fact look it up. I'd like an apology. Meanwhile, here's your citation:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/

"The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government."

"Under the Obama-Biden plan, a residual force will remain in Iraq and in the region to conduct targeted counter-terrorism missions against al Qaeda in Iraq and to protect American diplomatic and civilian personnel."

"As our forces redeploy, Obama and Biden will make sure we engage representatives from all levels of Iraqi societyâ"in and out of governmentâ"to forge compromises on oil revenue sharing, the equitable provision of services, federalism, the status of disputed territories, new elections, aid to displaced Iraqis, and the reform of Iraqi security forces."

"He will provide at least $2 billion to expand services to Iraqi refugees in neighboring countries, and ensure that Iraqis inside their own country can find sanctuary."

Less army, more nation building. Which, by the way, will be protected by that 'residual force' of indeterminate size. I really don't find anything unclear about this position at all.

Based on his history, I will be surprised if change doesn't happen. And that's coming from a jaded old guy who has watched the republican become replaced with people who make decsions based on belief, group think, and spending maniacs.

Who's history? Are we claiming that Obama has a track record of being POTUS? I didn't think he did, yet.

Why is it that the pro-Obama people so rarely make an actual point??? I enjoy political debate, I really do. And believe it or not, I have a fairly open mind, but I swear that all this Obama support is something of an enigma to me. Take his position on Iraq. HOW is this a good idea? We can't even keep troops safe over there. Those people hate each other. What about this position makes this a good man to vote for?

'He isnt McCain' just doesn't cut it for me, sorry.

I'll be paying about $600 more under Obama's plan versus what I paid under Bush II, and I'm just a middle class employee (less than 100K).

Really? Did you use Obama's own calculator?

• Give all small businesses a $3,000 new jobs tax credit for each additional employee hired in 2009 and 2010.
• Help small businesses raise capital and increase growth by exempting all investments in small and start up businesses from capital gains taxes.
• Offer all small business owners a healthcare tax credit equal to 50% of the premiums paid for employee health benefits each year.