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OK, here it is:

• 1989: Citrix is founded to create a commercial product with the functionality of MIT's X Window System, which originated in 1984 - and was in turn derived from still older systems.

I think that should just about cover it.

There are applications that use SSL/TLS protocols as well as a full-strength general purpose crypto - Citrix for example.

The bottom line is that applications like these give physicians greater oversight over patients and positively impacts patient care. It is a good thing.

So it seems that the same thing that happened to propritary unix apps in the 80s and 90s is starting to happen now with propritary consumer apps. I'm refering to the stories of upon setting up their workstation or server taking a day to replace all the proprietary programs with the GNU created ones because they functioned better.

Well, this and all other TCO "studies" are BS. They "saved" $100,000 over a completely different solution, not a better one. By this, they kept around their old PCs and threw Linux Terminal Server Project (LTSP), and said that was much cheaper than buying new PCs with XP licenses on them. I'm not too familiar with any MS products, but I've heard of Citrix which is similar technology I believe. Granted Citrix is not free, but it should work with their old equipment as well.

However, I will say that I'm impressed that OpenOffice works that well. I haven't used it in a while since my hd crashed, and I have had no need to reinstall it, but I thought it was painful to use (this was maybe a year ago).

Also, I don't believe that proprietary UNIX apps were replaced with GNU stuff until the late 90s. GNU started out to be a free OS to replace UNIX, but it has yet to of happened, but Linux did. Before Linux took off and became a viable server OS, GNU just had a compiler, and various standard UNIX tools, but those were just installed on a UNIX box, not a replacement. Thank GOD Solaris now ships with at least gzip and bash and other GNU utils, that was a pain without those. The compiler was excellent because it was able to at least compile other GNU stuff. Compilers were not very portable back then, and having one that worked on all platforms greatly accelerated the GNU progress.

This is a landmark case because Linux was installed on a number of machines and used for 2 years in an office environment. I would be a little frustrated by using it personally, but if it worked for them, especially with the backwards compatibility with office docs, thats pretty impressive.

In this case, the Citrix client requires write access to HKLM\Software\Microsoft\MSLicensing\Store (see this Citrix KB article) So you don't have to give the users full admin rights.

It's a software development problem, not strictly a "Windows problem". With most applications, developers assume users have admin rights, and don't test their products any other way. Even big guys like Citrix.

I suppose it's a Windows problem for reasons of history: in Win9x everyone was a root user, so Windows programmers developed bad habits. By and large, OSS developers (usually) assume you have minimal rights.

This stuff is still a nightmare to administer. If you want to remove admin rights from users, you're forced to spend hours finding permissions tweaks like this for every new application. (Use regmon & filemon from sysinternals.com - that's how I found the Citrix tweak.)

I love how the OS community assumes it's always about them. In the thin client arena, Microsoft's main competition is Citrix Metaframe. My company sells a solution that works on both citrix and terminal services. Citrix is more expensive but has more features. There are also a ton of addons and configurations that TS doesn't do yet.

The more options MS comes up with, the more they can compete. So far our customers are buying more TS Licenses than Citrix since windows 2000 came out because it's adequate for most users who want a reasonably functional thin client solution.

Yes, thin client options on Linux are a threat, but that's just lumped into the over all Linux beast they are tackling right now and specifically isn't anything special... yet.

Have you heard of LTSP?

Or how about Windows 2000 Terminal Services?

Or maybe Citrix?

Can i from a mac conncet in an easy way to Windows (mean both "map up a drive"

smbfs (the SMB client file system that comes with OS X) and/or DAVE (third-party SMB client file system) are your friends here.

and thru "terminal server like software")?

Microsoft has Remote Desktop Connection Client for Mac, Citrix has an ICA client for OS X that might work, and rdesktop is an open source client for the Remote Desktop Protocol which is available in Fink but that might require X11.

If i run iphoto and itunes can i have the actual songs/pictures on server running windows or linux?

iTunes stores the music in your home directory; my home directory at work is NFS-mounted, and that seems to work, so that might work with a Linux server if that's what your home directory is mounted from. I don't know whether it'd work over SMB to a Windows server.

I haven't tried iPhoto over NFS (or SMB), so I don't know whether that'd work.

Maybe you could cut costs by re-using older equipment and have users use a http://www.citrix.com/citrix environment to access their virtual desktops and applications. We use that in our company and it really allows us to have control over the users and save money in support. When upgrading the servers, the money is spent on the workhorse on the backend, one machine instead of many......

Instead of using just TS, add Citrix http://www.citrix.com/ and a second server or even a third server to the solution and use the load balancing. This will give you a much less down time and reduce the resources required to run users. A typical 3.4GHZ Xenon with 2GB of ram can handle 50 users with no resource issues. With 3 servers, you can load balance 100 users and even if needed during outage or updates/upgrades of one server, load balance all users to the other servers. Now before everyone screams, I would personally never recommend more than 30 - 40 users per server just in case of a failure. The benefit of this is centralized management, easier support with shadowing, less resources required at the workstation. It's is a pretty efficent way to handle this problem.

This sounds like a slightly different take on a fad from a few years ago called Citrix and MetaFrame. I don't hear too much about Citrix anymore; and I suspect I wont hear too much about this stuff either.

CDEX
IRFanView
Winamp
iTunes
FireFox w/AdBlock and various other extensions
Some music
Assorted pictures
Spybot & AdAware
XP SP2
DefilerPak
Novell VPN client
Citrix client
Farbrausch demos
PuTTY
and the all-important XEvil

800 for a corporate level pc is not uncommon. .

And don't tell me I could build one cheaper out of the same components as the big boys, because that's a lie once you factor in my time in assembling , installing and configuring the OS. Considering what I'm paying my staff, that's a huge waste of company resources.

If thin client is such a failure, and most companies don't think like that, then tell me why Places like Merril Lynch, t-mobile, chrysler, forbes etc use them? Oh that's right, because in your limited world view, you don't like them, so they must not make business sense

here's some more. http://www.citrix.com/site/aboutCitrix/caseStudies /caseStudies.asp/

There are plenty of resources for thin client computing in a library environment.

I would start by checking out the case studies that are listed at citrix.com. One immediately comes to mind: http://www.citrix.com/site/aboutCitrix/caseStudies /caseStudy.asp?storyID=13818

Incidentally, the man in question here runs a little site by the name of http://www.thethin.net/. It is hands down, the number one resource for thin client solutions on the web. Join the list and listen in for a while, I guarantee you'll learn more about terminal server and thin clients during the first week on this list than you will learn in any classroom.

Good luck to you!

It's like Citrix but for Unix/Linux. Cool. We use Citrix on some Windows 2000 servers here at work, and feed about 50% of our 250 users off of them. Works pretty well.

Wonder if I could get the bosses to switch 'em over to Sun Ray....

if i remember correctly, isn't this one of the promises that citrix was supposed to offer?

I dare someone to do it with XP home edition, or 2k pro... the EFF won't make it to you in time to stop the carnage.

Uh, I use the Citrix web client with Mozilla just fine thank you very much. The presentation server client is about as supported as any piece of software out there. For a list of supported client OS's see this page. As you can see there are a TON of supported platforms.

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

1. "requires zero software be loaded on the machines the display is coming from or the ones the display is being forwarded to."...I'd love to see software that can be run on a remote computer allowing arbitrary execution...sounds like an exploit to me ;)
2. Platform independance: Citrix supports lots of platforms (not just Windows, Solaris/Sparc and Linux/x86) but also: Linux/ARM HP UX AIX Solaris/x86 SunOS Compaq Tru64/Alpha IRIX SCO Unix/x86Windows CE/PocketPC (ARM, SH-3, SH-4, MIPS, x86 and ARM4I)Windows (16bit)MacOS (68k, PowerPC OS9 and OSX)OS/2 WarpEpoch/Symbian (Sony/Ericsson P800/P900, Nokia 9200 and Psion)DOS (16bit and 32-bit)
3. Oh, Citirx has a Java Client too. And yes it can either in a web browser or as a seperate app
4. Local Drive/Printer Access: Although not every client has the ability to do this (feature matrix) almost all can do this. Yes, files and printers. (Note: I couldn't find any information about whether OS/2 Warp or Symbian OS could do this...) Of course if you can't use your cell phone to connect to a citrix server and print to a printer attached to the phone, I'm not sure how upset

I was going to post a blatent plug for Citrix's NFuse Classic, because we've been using it at work for over a year and it's been pretty well received, (in fact, using MetaFrame as a whole has allowed us to continue to use legacy hardware which would just get scrapped or recycled anyway, which means more terminals pointed to speedy terminal servers, and more busy users, fewer bucks on new hardware).

Of course, using NFuse from a locked-down public terminal is a hindrance. (Darn inconveient, too, I reckon). Did the public terminal have any Java runtime installed? There's a Citrix ICA Java client, but I think you'd have to run a Java applet from a web page for the current one (7.x). We don't use the applet on any of our web sites. I'm curious to take a crack at it now. Although, few if any of our users are likely to try it from a public temrinal and read the site to work-around, (they're more than likely to get frustrated and walk away logged-in).

more about the 7.x Citrix Java client here

IIRC, the server was a low end Dell Poweredge (the ones that come standard with a 7200RPM IDE drive). I think a single PIII in the I've also had 60-70 users on dual processor servers running database apps and custom software. At 75 users, the server would start to drop connections, and we had to put another server in. It really all depends on the apps.

My advice would be to set up a test server. MS has scripts you can use to load test. I'd guess that with a dual processor, 1GB RAM, Ultra160 server you should be able to serve 100+ office users. Up it to a quad Xeon, 2GB RAM and you should approach 200 users/server. It could be higher or lower depending on the applications and usage patterns of your employees, of course. If they all use the same apps (Word, Excel, etc.) then one nice thing is that the EXEs and DLLs only get loaded once, so you'll really save on memory. But if they're all working on 250 page documents, then you'll still have to worry about RAM. I assume, of course, that these will be dedicated terminal servers, since you're talking so many users.

Here (PDF) is a good whitepaper on the subject. It's part MS propaganda, of course, but there's alot of good info in it and the numbers aren't too far off reality. Like I said though, the only real answer is it depends on your usage patterns.

As for increasing IT staff, I don't know how many you have (staff or servers) now, but adding 5-10 terminal servers shouldn't be a very large burden. I'd set up the terminal servers identically, and then you can script or Ghost a new install. Data would be stored on existing file servers, so you don't even need to back up the terminal servers.

Thin clients would be your least hassle option, but as you've no doubt found out...they're expensive. Yesterday's hardware running Windows 2000 or XP Pro should be more than sufficient though. Unfortunately, it doesn't release you from the patch management cycle, but with 1000+ users you should hopefully already have something in place to handle that already.

So, you're question is can you save money doing this? I'd say no, not right now. I'd guess that your current hardware is sufficient to run your current apps (Office, Groupwise, etc.) so you won't save money in that respect. 1000 users demands some sort of patch and application management. You'll still have the patch management issues, and whatever you're using for application management (GPOs, SMS, etc.) is already licensed. No costs savings there. You'll need 5-10 more servers + operating systems to purchase and maintain. You'll need to keep some desktop support staff to deal with the underlying OS on your client machines, as well as your users who won't be running terminal services. So, unless you have an abundance of desktop techs, I don't think you'll save money there either. Your admins will still need to maintain the current servers, plus the additional 5-10. A server outage will take down 100-200 users, though they can be load balanced to running servers on reconnect, but they'll still lose their current state.

On the positive side, desktop issues can be taken care of quicker and with less legwork. Software upgrades are easier and quicker, requiring less staff. Backup is centralized (if it's not already).

On the whole, I'd say unless you regularly upgrade your PC's or software, are due for a HW/SW upgrade, or have a lot of desktop techs you'll be out about the cost of the servers. But, that's just a guess. I only tend to use TS in remote user environments, or in no admin remote offices to avoid most travel issues. I've never been convinced of a benefit to most companies in using it in place of desktop PC's.

However, I was not referring to the same kinds of VPNs the AC mentions. I understand why TCP over TCP is a bad idea.

I was thinking of these kinds of products:

• HOB
• Citrix Secure Gateway
• Netilla
• Aventail
• Neoteris

To the best of my knowledge, that bit about the API calls is incorrect. Remote Desktop (gotta love Microsoft's way of turning common terminology into product names) uses the RDP 5.1 protocol, an incremental update to RDP 5.0, the remote display protocol used by Windows Terminal Service in Windows 2000. Version 5.1 adds some goodies like an audio channel, a serial channel, and better compression, but it's still basically a remote display protocol like RFB, ICA, or AIP.