Slashdot Mirror
Jumping From Computer To Computer
Roland Piquepaille writes "Imagine a world where computers become so ubiquitous that the idea of carrying a laptop will almost be laughable, a world where any computer could be your computer! According to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, this is the goal of Intel Research Pittsburgh's Internet Suspend/Resume (ISR) project, a project that may one day let your work jump from computer to computer without interruption by using the Internet, distributed file systems, and virtual machines. When the non-proprietary technology becomes available, a user will suspend a task on the computer he's working on, and resume this work using another computer in another part of a city or several thousands of miles away. The second system will look identical to the first one, with the same files and applications opened. This technology would also ease OS upgrades or eliminate the pain coming from a hard disk failure. The project has even a feature named Rollback which would permit to go back in time, eliminating these pesky viruses. A pilot test will start this fall, so don't expect to be able to use ISR for a while. You'll find more details and references in this overview."
I use scripts to sync my work all the time. I don't see what the big deal is here.
...so when Windows BSODs and you change to the next machine in the lab, you'll still have to sit and wait for it to restart?
From the article:
Despite their outward sameness, most computers are so personalized with desktop preferences and software that borrowing someone's computer can seem as creepy as borrowing their underwear.
Does this mean that borrowing someone else's underwear could be made less creepy if it were made to look like your own? Will we laugh at people someday for actually travelling with luggage- Ha ha, fools- I just use the underwear that is laying around at the hotel?!
Seriously, who would use this? How long will it be after introduction before someone comes up with a way to hack/hijack an Internet Suspend/Resume account and get all of your data?
Urge to post... fading... fading... RISING!... fading... fading... gone.
with vnc for the few *nix machines i have to admin, and remote desktop to my desktop at home...
With SSH, "screen", VNC, and X-forwarding, whenever I approach a linux box, I feel right at home, knowing I can connect to my apps, files, and data with little trouble.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Running VNC or X remotely? Why is this so revolutionary?
- A
Screen over SSH :)
While the article refers to the idyllic view of being to work anywhere, the tech exists already. In a corporate environment with Win2K/NT4, there's roaming profiles.
There's also Citrix and Terminal Services which allow to have that experience throughout a LAN. Tie it up with a SSL-VPN solution and then you have that environment anywhere in the globe.
Computers keep shrinking and prices keep dropping. Why depend on a remote site to host your desktop when you could keep the same data in your watch, jackknife or wallet?
===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
Isnt't it called screen?
I thought terminal services was for that ...
Maybe the average Joe won't care but I would rather have everything stored on my laptop that I physically carry with me. Why would I trust a random computer? Boo these men.
http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
So they just invented X-windows, or nfs?
Mod point free since 2001
You mean, sort of like logging into an old VT100 or X terminal connected to a central computer system except on a larger scale?
I know, it's not at all the same thing, but it is a little be similar in application.. somewhat.. if you squint and turn your head a little... in the fog.. :)
but still!
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
OK, so let my just think a little bit here. You get a virus that remains dormant for say, 6 months. Then sudennly it does something really bad to your computer so what do you do? Rollback 1 day and have it screw up the next day or rollback 6 months and lose 6 months work? I think a litte more thought has to be put into that feature....Or maybe I should RTFA.
Take it from someone who's had their EBay account hijacked not once, but twice. Beware public terminals!
Sun's has had this working for years on Sun Ray thin clients. Your working session is frozen when you remove a smart card, and is resumed on another appliance when you put the smart card back in. It works all over the country, so a session can be resumed anywhere.
You can already jump from machine to machine using Remote Desktop... Not EXACTLY what the article's talking about, but you can achieve the same effect by being able to control "your" machine from any other. However, the technology is still lagging in terms of response time and cross-platform compatibility. If Remote Desktop ran from any browser, and somehow went really, really fast, that would be pretty close.
stuff |
pause a MMPOG in a crap machine then resume on a faster machine somewhere else?
BTW this is not a troll, just think about the many factors that are involved in the market to day. "FASTER, BIGGER, BETTER"........
Screen, SSH and puTTY on a pendrive... been done for years and years.
So, kinda like a world of VMware images, an assload of HD space, a fast pipe, and a distributed authentication system?
I do this already using Terminal Services to log into my laptop at the office - whether I'm at home (in the UK), or at my parents-in-law in Canada. And yes, I leave stuff running on my machine, editors open, and go home, log in and I'm working exactly where I left off.
Also amusing to find, that when I'm in Canada, log into my VPN and browse the network, it shows my work PC under "Computers Near Me". I wouldn't call 3,500 miles near!
Jolyon
Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
...doesn't eliminate the problem of pesky viruses and the like (file corruption, unnoticed errors...). You don't always inmediately notice something is wrong, so you keep working. To go back in time a few hours/days might not be an option, if malware hits with high frequency. A cvs-like system might do the trick, although.
(Just my two off-topic eurocents).
My journal. Mainly about freedom.
This would also make it very difficult for any non-standard OS (Linux, MacOS, BSD) to get a foothold once it gets going - I'd guess you would be pretty limited in just what you could have loaded in order to use this system.
I dunno. It's an interesting concept, but I have my doubts. I actually like managing my own systems. I'd rather have the control than hand it over to a company who's going to do upgrades without my knowledge.
...I wan't my data and application state stored in some other location that I have no physical control over? I'll stick with a palm and some floppies, thank you.
As with all leaps forward in technology, there are bound to be snags. A recent report stated that only 42% of all internet sites are secure. I quiver to think of the attacks that will be used by hackers to grab people's sensitive work/information. Lets just hope the govenment doesn't try to use this. ;)
If a computer is not my own computer i simply don't trust it.
what?! you're a graphic designer?
-- My hovercraft is full of eels.
Beautiful idea, but I want to carry his memory/state with me on a little and duplicable box or card.
What's in a sig?
so i can go use your grubby mouse and keyboard crusted with finger jam?
no thanks
Normally, it might take hours to reload programs and resuscitate this dead machine. But with Internet Suspend/Resume, Helfrich was able to instantly restore his work and proceed as if nothing had happened. Nothing to see here, everyone just move along...
They try to draw a parallel to VM technology from IBM, it seem to me that the most likely to be successful implementations of Ubiquitous Computing environment won't involve any VM-like architecture.
I think it will just have a bunch of web-deliverable apps and it will save all your data and the state of any running web delivered apps so that you can start down at any computer, whether it was part of the "Ubiquitous Computing World" before or not, open a web browser, enter a userid and passphrase for your pki key and the apps, your data and the state you left everything in will pop up on that machine. Copyright 2004, TM (R), SM and Patent Pending... by 26377731333
resume my game of Command and Conquer Generals from anywhere? I can see the productivity numbers dropping off the chart already.
Moderation Insight
Even if strong encyption is used, you still run the risk of hardware keyloggers.
this seems like a sneaky and highly effective way to deploy global DRM, to me. Especially the bit about 'not troubling with OS upgrades'.
Apparently the ultimate goal is to eventually have ISR software running on every computer in the public domain. What is in this article is a good first step, but even if they can make the process and the software bulletproof, there are still many problems left to be faced:
1. Most people have lots of data on their computers (here, I define a 'lot' as over 10 GB of data). Even if they were only using say 200 mb of data, at today's broadband transfer speeds, that could take 10 minutes to transfer, or much more if they can only get dialup speeds.
2. As I said, most people have lots of stuff on their HD's (I for one always have 80-100GB on my HD). Where are they going to get the space to store 100GB(or more) for every person who is going to use the system? It will cost them a fortune just in the cost of disk space, not to mention bandwidth to transfer the running state of all these systems.
3. It might seem obvious to some, but how are they planning on getting the system into widespread use? If you haven't noticed, people tend to resist change, and even if they do get it into wide use, not everyone will use it, so there will still be computers you cant just walk up to and use.
4. If it costs money to use the service, I guarantee it will take a lot longer to get into widespread use. The only place I can really see it being worth the cost would be in a business setting, where you could sit down at any computer and it would be like you are sitting at your own desk.
In conclusion, good idea, but it needs major work, and there are many major major problems to be solved before it "revolutionizes" computing
Well, with Sun's 'sunray' stuff. YOu carry a smart card, pop it in, do your work. Mid work, pull the card, and the screen goes blank. Pop the card in another computer, and your work is still there.
The future is 10 years ago.
Well, with Xterminals... dummy boxes with small system image, loading a desktop off the central server.
The future is 20 years ago.
Well, with mainframe technology, and 3270 terminals.
Zapman
What's really missing is a tiny standardized robust plugable hard-disk that provides the 20+Gb needed for a personal workspace. For the rest: any PC running a standard suite of applications (Mozilla, OpenOffice). In extremis, a bootable CD.
I almost do this today but USB flash disks are too slow for the purpose.
It should also be possible to package a complete OS, applications, and data onto a portable storage device, then load the OS, applications, and data through an emulation layer on the host system.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
Can't you already do basically that same thing with GoToMyPC?
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
Don't really have to imagine anything Sunrays already do this - just they aren't widely deployed. Is it just my or is it getting boring having people think things don't exist just because Microsoft isn't doing it.
----
When will people understand that people like owning property? This is network computing taken to its next (naieve) step.
The project has even a feature named Rollback which would permit to go back in time, eliminating these pesky viruses.
Wait, Rollback? Are you saying this is a Wal-Mart project?
... how rollback that one of those virus, trojans, etc sent the passwords you typed to some email or irc channel? Virus damage is not just altering the filesystem. And if well having a lot of things in the web enables me to do all that is related to that in any computer connected to internet, that don't means that any of those computers is trustable enough to write there passwords, credit card numbers, etc.
...they want their timesharing mainframes back.
Why would somebody want to carry their computer around with them?
Because there aren't computers everywhere. Go outside. Can you see a computer there? Are you about to install computers everywhere?
How about places without Internet access? Say, an airplane? What would people do then?
My old school in early 1990s have
large number of public UNIX workstations
( IBM RS/6000s, SUN IPX, X11-termials )
where you can just login anywhere. You just need
to remember your userid and password.
It was based on MIT's Athena project technology
using AFS file system where your home
directory is stored.
Now I heard that you need to lug a laptop everywhere at RPI..
Imagine carrying your laptop with your textbooks
and notebook in the middle of winter, snowing
or raining in Albany area.
Not to imagine if you lost that laptop or broke
it.
DisClaimer: My comments do not reflect nor represent anyone else nor my current employer's views or attitudes.
The late Isaac Asimov wrote about a single
computer that had acces points in the style of an ATM machine, all around the world. The bad thing is that the computer, tired of that burden, tried to commit siucide hiring some terrorists for the job.
Do not put all your eggs in the same basket...
I know this has been said a thousand times before, but network apps are going to be the wave of the future. Look at GMail... that's better than a lot of mail clients out there, and thanks to its minimalist interface it's not all that slow on a decent connection. Already your mail application is portable to any machine with a browser.
With XUL and XAML fighting for market dominance, it's clear that the future of computing lies with small, portable, web-based applications for particular purposes. GMail is just one example of this trend.
The first wave of network apps were horrendous, but they were ahead of their time. Now that bandwidth, memory, and CPU power has gone up, the idea of composing your emails online or even creating documents online is less farfetched than it was a few years ago. Granted, there won't be a web-based 3D modelling application coming around any time soon, and there will always be a place for desktop applications, but even those will be increasingly dependent on networked tools. Imagine OpenOffice with Google search built in to the application - you could pull an RSS feed of Google results on any topic right from the UI. Even in those spaces where web apps aren't yet ready for primetime they'll still be an increasingly important suppliment to traditional applications.
What's interesting is that these apps are better suited to the UNIX philosophy - small and easy to interconnect apps rather than the monolithic feature bloat of traditional Windows programming. Even Microsoft is starting to realize that network apps are going to be a more important part of 21st Century computing, which is why they're trying to embrace and extend this sphere by trying to compete with services like Google and trying to get XAML as the standard for web app development.
The advantage of this over ISR is that ISR requires a lot of new technologies, while web-apps require a browser and standards like CSS, XML, XHTML, and JavaScript. With even Apple's Dashboard embracing this concept, my money is on the tools we have now for creating web apps rather than another technology that reinvents the wheel.
As the data we keep on our computers becomes more and more valuable, people are less likely to be happy with accessing their information across the internet.
Within the next 10 years, portable computers will be separate from cell phones, but they will start to approach the size of an old tape walkman or iPod. They will completely replace PDAs. They'll have a small touchscreen, builtin WiFi connection, DVI out, as well as Bluetooth or equivilent and probably one USB and one Firewire port.
You'll be crazy to bring a laptop because on all of the planes and in all of the hotels, they'll have a screen you can jack into, as well as a mouse/keyboard. Your data stays with you, but you don't have to have another carry-on to use it. Simple, secure, and well within current technology limitations.
The Unix Guys at work (e.g., me and my boss) recently sent out a memo to all corporate employees about logging in from public terminals. Because they are outside of company and/or individual control, it isn't possible to know what sort of software is running on them. Concordantly, it's quite possible that any given public terminal has a keylogger, packet-dumper, and any other type of spyware you would care to name.
Note that this memo wasn't just idle paranoia; we sent it out after having some IP address in Korea attempt to log in to our corporate webmail server, after one of our salesdroids checked her mail from a public terminal in the lobby of a business hotel. He had her username, password, and who knows what else in the way of corporate data, all from her using a public PC.
Me? I'll stick with bringing my laptop around, even if it looks funny, just like I stick to using GPG and public-key encryption on my emails.
--
I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy
How is Internet Suspend/Resume going to make those keyboards usable to me?
--
What short sigs we have -
One hundred and twenty chars!
Too short for haiku.
... comes around.
... thank you Microsoft, for de-composing computer tech ...
We've had this ability since the birth of computers, we just keep coming up with 'whiz-bang' junk that prevents us from maintaining it, as a feature, across consequent generations of computer technology.
seems like the further we get from the 80's, the more we forget about just how productive things truly were back then
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Running Citrix in the office; anyone can log in at any desktop and it connects them directly to Citrix. No local apps, no local data, all work done in Citrix.
When they get home, they connect through a web page which redirects them to the same Citrix box. Anywhere in the the world, any computer system, they can connect to the office (as long as they can install the ICA client). Client exists for Macs, *nix, PocketPC, EPOC, Java... sounds like it's already ubiquitous to me.
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
I dont see this taking off, at least for a really long time.
First, Do you really want some random computer that you know nothing about to have the ability to see your passwords, files and have access to your storage facility? There are many, many security concerns to be answered.
Second, I guess this means there will only be one OS? I dont imagine MS Winders will start supporting X11.
While I do think that rentable computers much like pay phones will be common soon, they will be pretty basic. They will contain an OS with email and web access and possibly easy access to an online storage appliance where you can keep certain documents and files. I dont see how the implementation that the arcticle talks about would be feasable.
I would rather keep my laptop/tablet/usbdrive and be able to keep my own files/movies/music/apps to myself without exposing them to seemingly everyone.
Are you intolerant of intolerant people?
How about this for a first step, not quite what is described above, but close.
I've been teleworking almost exclusively, and I can move from computer to computer, install a VNC viewer, and the VPN software to connect to a computer that I use as my desktop at work.
What I really need to do is setup a knoppix or mandrake-move style CD with my VPN software (proprietary) and a VNC client.
See, I *want* to have my own machine, as if you compromise the hardware, it's game over. So ubiquitious machines won't work -- it's too easy to get in there and compromise the system.
So I'm going to want my own keyboard (or input device). I might as well provide all the rest of the system, except perhaps for some local RAM, some additional CPU power, and a network connection. . . but by then, why bother? Just give me the 'Net connection and I'll go find my remote host,and feel safer.
Obviously, some people are insufficiently paranoid.
Pick One: http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~stremler/sigs/sigs.html (Note - disable Javascript first!)
If you believe in / have a vested interest in widespread unbelievably-fast NETWORKS, then you run your session on a server and use something like VNC. (Note the VNC / AT&T connection.)
On the other hand, if you believe in / have a vested interest in widespread unbelievably-fast PROCESSORS, then you'll move your suspended session around with you and run it in a VM. (Note this is Intel.)
It sounds like interesting and worthwhile work, but some of the projected benefits are silly and the projected risks are not discussed at all.
For example: "If a user's computer becomes infected, she could use the Rollback feature to go back to an arbitrary point in time prior to the infection and resume work there, deleting the subsequent work -- and the virus."
There are several reasons why that statement is idiotic.
1) This exact capability has, of course, been available for several years now, first as the commercial product GoBack, then as a built-in feature in Windows XP. (And it has done nothing substantial to solve the virus problem).
2) The breeziness with which the reporter acknowledges that using this capability would "delete the subsequent work" is astonishing. Most of us would not like losing one, two, or several days' work.
3) If you always were aware of the exact moment at which you acquired a virus, viruses would be a relatively small problem. The fact is, you don't know.
4) There's even a nonzero probability that in going back to a time when you did not have the virus that you might also be undoing security patches preventing you from acquiring new viruses.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Am I expected to trust someones computer?
Very easy to put in a keyboard, mouse, USB key sniffer in.
If I can't trust my own computer running the 'standard' OS, how can I trust someone elses.
People have finally gotten to understand they must keep their bank PIN number secret, they should be able to understand putting it into random computers is also a bad idea.
As was briefly mentioned before, this is similar to cell phones / public telephones. Who wants to be tied to using a (perceived or real) dirty public phone when cell phones are cheap and (ta-da) mobile?
The additional risk with shared computers is the owner or previous user may have installed a key-stroke logger or some similar program. Heck, the computer may just be poorly maintained and some bloke in another country may now own it.
With wireless-enabled PDA's, increased functionality cell phones, etc, I can't see people generally falling in love with a shared service - other than a shared resource that they can use with their own gear - a resource such as a wireless network.
But what this really sounds like to me is the OLD model of thin clients being served from a mainframe some place, or good old VPN.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
I use VNC to provide me with exactly this capability though through different means. VNC has the added benfit of not having suspended it's activity when you suspend yours so processing continues to take place (a very useful feature for long jobs.)
There are only 6,863,795,529 types of people in the world.
This sounds suspiciously like the initial propaganda for Microsoft .Net - having both software and, eventually, storage hosted in secure online sites. Computing as a service not a product.
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
My most important apps are mail and browsing. Between work and public library terminals, I have daily access. Even if I am traveling in far-off cities and countries.
Microsoft Virtual PC lets me suspend and resume an entire OS, running whatever applications I want, at any time. I think it's the way things are headed. I've installed separate virtual machines for running Gentoo, Fedora Core and MS Win 2K3 server. Well worth a look. (They have a 45-day free trial).
we have this in one of the offices here. It's called Linux terminal Server. set down at any pc, log in and voila!
Sun also had a system like this for decades. it's entirely possible inside of a company with an OS other than windows.
and yes it could be done in windows, but for much much more money.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
A pendrive/ipod (in size, harddrive space) bluetooth enabled device that carried core applications and your home folder? Wether in be a unix-style home folder layour, or an xml/generic folder layout that has an abstraction to windows/unix/linux(various conflicting layouts in unixes). and OFCOURSE, the drive, preferably solid-state, would be encrypted with a public key...
I walk up to an unused machine, sit down, the login script/screen detects my bluetooth device, notices that is a user account storage device, and prompts for a username/password that is checked against the device via encrypted bluetooth... If successful, links, shortcuts, small apps(putty), documents, contacts, email, etc.. are all 'loaded' onto the local machine, as if i were at my home computer...
Even better if these were on a linux/x11 setup so we could do some automatic screen attach/detach scripts on all processes/programs running!
don't we already have software that is like this.
Anyone here of CITRIX????
There are some issues involved with this.
1. Where are the applications and data really going to be stored?
2. Who has access to this information/hardware?
3. Can I trust that a terminal doesn't have a keylogger (hardware/software) attached to it?
4. How traceable will this be if somebody gains access to my "environment" without my permission.
I think a better link would have been to the Intel Research Paper. This paper describes an intergration of VMware, the Coda Distributed File System and a USB storage dongle.
id like an ipod-sized device, and you just walk up to a workstation (keyboard, mouse, monitor, printer, whatever) and they all work wirelessly with said ipod-sized device. you can use your own OS, settings, etc, etc etc.
be quiet about battery life please. unless it'll use an ipod-like-stand.
Fifteen years ago, I was one of the Thin Client evangelists trying to keep M$ Win off of the company desktops.
Thin Client has its place, but so does public transportation... and some people, no matter what, want to "drive their own."
Like the "underwear" quote below, people won't move from virtual computer to virtual computer any more than they move from cell phone to cell phone ( or toothbrush to toothbrush).
Sure, there are limited cases as noted in many of the other posts, but those are limited, and selective. Its one thing for someone to set up several of their own PCs and sync work from one to another. Its totally another to sell people on the idea of using "public PCs" the way people used to use public phones. The minute they had a better option than a public phone (cell phones) people dove all over it. Public phones are pretty useless mostly because of our American fierce sense of individuality. We want our individual form of transportation, our own individual tool for communication and our own individual PCs. Heck look at how few Windows CE/terminal server units are out there. Are there any at my company? none! why? technology not mature enough, cost effective enough? The biggest problem was trying to get people to let go of their "personal Computers" and exchange them for a terminal (never mind how personalized that terminal was).
"Look, we have issues associated with security these days because people aren't keeping up with their system maintenance" by downloading updates and corrective patches, she said. That leaves many home Internet users vulnerable to viruses or other attacks.
They completely gloss over the other aspect of security, which is keeping people out that shouldn't have access to your information. They're bloody mad if they think I'm going to let someone else have access to my personal information. Hell, I've stopped using my computer as a way to do my journal because of security problems. They think I'm going to let someone else store it? Ha.
As Seen On TV's? Come back!!!
And it's called the iPod.
... without disrupting the current Mac configuration whatsoever except for the needed reboot. Emulation layer suggested _is_ being worked on... :)
It's tiny standardized robust plugable hard-disk (Firewire based) and 5G is all that I need to "keep running". That's enough space to have the core OS [X] and my Applications directory tree (which is absolutely loaded with only ~3G used).
I'm able to listen to my music anywhere -- and boot "my computer" on any Mac I encounter
I am able to do this from any computer which have vncviewer. vncviwer-ssh nvcserver.name:1 #!/bin/sh input="$@" host=`echo "$@" | awk -F":" '{print $1}'` user=`echo "$@" | awk -F":" '{print $2}'` ssh -C -L 5902:localhost:5901 $host vncviewer localhost:$user
Sun already does this with the Sun Ray thin clients.
Your sessions follow you with a smart card.
Old news.
We have VMWare installed on all our machines here. I could, if I wanted do the same by just running around with some media with my virtual machine on it. You can even suspend/snapshot your session and when you get back in, you are back at exactly where you left off.
The only problem is that this requires VMWare to be installed everywhere, which isn't likely right now. However, Intel (and others) are working on hardware support for virtual machines and the like, I imagine it won't be far off when OSs will be based on this type of technology (yes, like the artical says).
A lot of posts seem to be comparing this idea to SunRay thinclients, GoToMyPC remote PC software, or even old dumb xterms. Those comparisons aren't very valid -- please read the article.
:)
It's more like WindowsXP System Restore -- you dump the complete state of the system to storage on the net, and you can reload that state anytime, from anywhere. Of course, this is much better than system restore in that your system doesn't have to be running at all to use it. In the example in the article, the guy deleted some exe's that make windows fail to find NTLDR -- so no boot is possible to get to where you can run system restore. But the system restores anyway, from the net, and is fine.
It's a very good idea. Of course, assuming there's some software involved in this (not just a hardware device like those things used in some public kiosks that automatically re-image a drive on boot if changed), the question is what happens when a virus or corruption gets into the restore code. I guess they can have another one to save/restore the save/restore code, and so on . . .
The best bit, though is this odd quote:
Despite their outward sameness, most computers are so personalized with desktop preferences and software that borrowing someone's computer can seem as creepy as borrowing their underwear.
everything in moderation
What a huge waste of time and resources. All they have invented is a way for MS to make *huge* amounts of cash. What they have is a thin client with all the baggage and excess of a fat client (including now licenses that the user will have to pay since they have a copy of the OS locally!)
.) we just create an even larger mess with stupid stuff like this!
This is why Computer Sciece is dead! DEAD DEAD! Instead of fixing the problem (virses, bad programs, bad hardware etc..
Someone should email these bozo's a link to X windows or Sun's Sunray so they can stop wasting time with what they call "Computer Science"
Key loggers.
More music, fewer hits
Many people have already pointed out that this is already possible via things like Windows Terminal Services, but have only referenced corporate setups. I tried out an Internet based provider over 2 years ago that sold a subscription to a Windows desktop with Office over TS. Unfortunately, there were still a lot of rough edges for personal use of such technology. For one thing, the service felt compelled to lock down nearly everything; it was nearly impossible to create even a desktop shortcut. And forget about your own favorite software; anything that isn't extremely mainstream.
And with the recent court decision about ISP access to e-mail, why would people have the incentive to move their personal onto servers, when the decision will tend to drive them from servers back to their own systems under their own control again?
Now let me explain.
I want to carry a small device(possibly like an iPod, I can listen to my music on it, but it is primarily a portable HD)
I walk up to ANY computer and insert the device. I press a button. The computer loads MY OS setup, and shows my files and settings.
I use the computer as I need to, press a button, and it ejects my device.
To make this work, it would require a new kind of hardware setups. The Hardware would have to have a basic OS setup, and an abstraction layer for hardware. for network settings, various video cards etc. It would then at the press of the button, setup an interface layer with the OS on the device, and boot that OS. It would give full hardware access to all local hardware(cd-roms, usb firewire ports, 3D cards etc.
Apple are you listening? Your the only one who could pull it off.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
do not read this line twice.
think this certainly looks like a very interesting technology, and in many ways is a logical extension of some of the techniques that have been around for years. Fellow users of products like VirtualPC (I use it with Windows 2000 and Debian) know that there are features like "Save State" that allow you to close down the VPC and then restart it later with the same programs running, setup, etc. The restore is also faster then restarting the OS (Windows or otherwise) from scratch. It is of course possible to copy the hard drive image and VPC program to another computer and still restore again, though this is time consuming. So I think it is clever to extend this to work more transparently over a network.
If a person is just browsing mail, or wants to check sites, do word processing, etc., this seems like a great thing. However, I do not see two important issues addressed in the article. First of all, the technology is claimed to be non-proprietary, which is great. But how easy is it to move between major architectures? I have happily switched to FreeBSD on my x86 machines and Mac OSX for my main work. I assume that this tech will require all used machines to be similar architectures, making it less useful for those of us on the fringe. If I have compiled a lot of my apps to specifically use features of x86-64 (ie, Athlon FX53 etc) how will the system respond?
The second problem is more basic, the symptom being: I don't have a laptop. The reason? I can still get vastly more power on the desktop, and I need that power. I use my machine for molecular force modeling (Cerius2), BLAST, as well as a significant amount of graphics work with Photoshop. And of course, there are games. I have around 480GB in disk space, and that is hardly on the high end anymore. Computer makers off many different lines of machines (and of course there is a thriving DIY market) precisely because different users have such different needs and desires. It's not just the software that is customized, but the hardware as well. This system *would* work very well if all the machines in hotels or wherever were pretty high-end, with gigabytes of disk space, at least a gig of ram, high end graphics cards, etc. Then differences would be purely in how we all customized our work environments, apps, etc. Unfortunately, the reality (where the boxes are generally almost the cheapest a business can buy) is so far from this scenario as to be laughable. I think that this is a great idea, but with limited application, because in the real world the various needs of people (and not even a small minority) diverge to greatly for this to be wide-scale for the foreseeable future.
...I am *NOT* sharing *MY* porn collection with the rest of the world!
I can't deny this sounds like a good idea, but really: at it's root is this anything more than yet another attempt to force thin-clinets down our throats? Why won't this idea die?
I use a mix of macs and a few different kinds of PCs, so to share files betwixt them, I already carry both my filesystem and my OS with me. I have a 128 Megabyte USB flash drive and two knoppix discs (one for Apple Boxxen, the other for IBM and similar). This allows me to open my files and settings on almost any computer I come across, even library card catalog kiosks with IDE CD drives. The whole package is less than 100 grammes. If I had a 1 or 2 gigabyte bootable USB flash drive, I could even eliminate the discs. _ Of course, this system requires me to restart the computer to set the boot options, but it nonetheless helps me share files between mac and PC. I suppose that with the system suggested above, I could boot off of the 'Net, making the total load zero. It's an interesting idea. Meanwhile, I use my knoppix discs for cross-platform sharing.
10 Bits= $.25
100 Bits= $.50
110 Bits= $.75
1000 Bits= 1 byte
Ermmm I thought I've already been doing this with my knoppix CD (for all my apps), my mp3 flash drive (for my settings) and my VPN server @ home (should I not be carring all my docs with me).
Could be wrong though =)
Doesn't Citrix allow this already?
It's what my company uses, but I imagine there are countless others that do basically the same thing.
And ya know, I *still* take my laptop everywhere. Basically, the formfactor of a small computer is far more attractive to me than a full size computer. And while I could go to any terminal in the world to do my work, I still prefer to sit on a couch or in some odd-ball coffee shop than at some chair in front of a traditional computer set up.
Perhaps the idea of laptops won't seem to foreign to the future -- but maybe the idea of individual laptop ownership might. I have far less difficulty in imagining a system where laptops are pretty much free and the money is made off of software/internet access.
Imagine just showing up at your favorite *independent* coffee shop where they have a whole rack of laptops to take to your seat. Logon, access your work via the internet, save your work to a network drive, and logoff. Leave.
It's not that the Intel folks are wrong, it's just I think they need to modify their point a little.
So... instead of millions of networked computers, we have one computer and millions of thin clients. I wonder where this central "mainframe" will be? Anywhere near a local government by any chance?
:(
The idea of computers becoming an "appliance", like a microwave or a TV, where every one is the same, where the case cannot be opened, and where you're not allowed to know what's going on inside sickens me, but I fear the day this happens is not far off.
YES!YES!YES!!
pls let me shout from rooftops. SunRays do so...they are soon going to announce the WAN-Rays and MAN-Rays(no pun intended, Metro Area Network Sun Rays)...so moving from computer to computer will truly be universal!!!
Only prob..Sun never gets any credits for its ideas, as usual...:((
For this to be possible, all hardware has to reach the same capability and innovation has to basically halt forever. The desktop environment that I run at home is very personal and consists of both hardware and software. Even assuming everyone had 3 screens and the same keyboard and mouse type as the ones that I use, the bandwidth isn't available to make the applications and data reasonably portable. If you went the approach of just running them all remotely, you would not meet the response requirements for the system to feel right. If you ran everything locally, every machine out there would need a minimum of a 1GB RAM, a high end processor, and high end video cards + you'd need the communications bandwidth to download GBs of data quickly. Either way you're hosed.
Also, high speed internet is by no means ubiquitous at this point. I live in the eastern US, have only modem access, and there is no promise of that changing at any time soon. And don't say satellite is an option. Its more a joke for various reasons including 400K isn't exactly high speed anymore, you can't really use that for any decent length of time without being throttled, and you can forget running applications remotely or accessing data through a VPN due to latency issues. Anybody visiting me and depending on this system would be out of luck.
A far better approach is to carry all of the personalization data and have an automatic system for invisibly backing up to multiple secure sites whenever you're "plugged in". Also, a new portable interface paradigm should be developed so that we carry our "screens", "keyboards", and "mice" with us. I envision glasses, contacts, or implants for visualization and the use of cameras, sound and other input mediums to provide data. The trusty old keyboard interface can be faked using a combination of overlaying some space near you with a virtual keyboard and using video analysis to read the keystrokes. More advanced and natural interfaces could also be developed by overlaying and merging virtual reality with the real world around us.
"Imagine a world where computers become so ubiquitous that the idea of carrying a laptop will almost be laughable, a world where any computer could be your computer!"
um, what about keystroke loggers?
I carry around my laptop and I know that when I type in a password in Mozilla Firebox on my own laptop, the password is not going to be captured by some random computer kiosk or internet cafe computer.
Didn't MIT do this in the 70s and 80s? Project Athena. NFS, kerberos, etc. Looks like they're still doing it; info here.
Furthermore, isn't this what 'Active Directory' is supposed to be for? Project Athena always sounded interesting, with a lot of neat stuff behind it, but the idea isn't appealing on a scale much larger than an office park or college campus.
"These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined" --Homer re:
A double plus ungood idea.
Have all my private data accessable by anyone in
the world? NO WAY MAN! I don't trust people
that much any more.
-- Programming with boost is like building a house with lego. It's a cool but I wouldn't want to live in it
With Plan 9.
In fall...I wanna try this out...cant hurt to try.
What's so funny about it ? I'm sorry I wasted 90 seconds of my life waiting for that boring shit to download.
I hope this idea dies.
Like Bank PIN numbers they are learning some things need to be protected.
People shouldn't use computers they can't trust.
Unless you control it you can't trust it.
Been there, done that.
It is called ssh and Xwindows.
They work great.
Any computer is my computer.
You will still need to store your stuff,
so you will need that.
Another variant of these have been around for 30+ years. IBM mainframes with dumb terminals. Not fancy or graphical, but I can go to any dumb terminal & it acts the same as any other dumb terminal.
Sun Sound Familiar?
funny, I've been using screen to let me access my computer for 8 years. I have access to all my data, and email. I think that was the bigest reason I stoped using windows at the time, screen was faster, and didn't have huge bandwidth requirements like vnc did.
... roaming profiles. MS has had this for at least a few years now. This group appears to be trying to create roaming profiles beyond the domain level. In order to do so, they'll try to include all computers on their network. That's pretty much it.
Knoppix or a similar Linux live distro on a DVD RW would do this. I've even been considering what it would take to make a live distro on a DVD R and just keep writing new sessions. If the distro itself takes less than a gig, you'd have three and a half left for config and other data. More than enough for most office stuff.
What I'd target this at initially would be the hotel and net cafe types of place - the client could be given a DVD with the basic Linux distro which they'd boot on a hotel/cafe terminal. If they need any non-standard apps, they can apt-get whatever they need, make any config changes they want and save it all on the DVD.
Eject the disk once the job's done, take it away and have your data in a format any DVD-equipped machine can read. If you go to another hotel or cafe, boot with the disk again and you have your own environment with you.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
You talk like a 15 inch laptop is the same as the tire from a mid-sized car. The truth is such things fit very nicely into things like briefcases and backpacks. Now, you could say that briefcases and backpacks are cumbersome also, but in truth, we will always have "stuff" we want to drag around with us, so we will always have briefcases and backpacks, which a 15 inch laptop will fit very nicely into.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
As we all know, a similar technique is already working very efficiently for email accounts.
1) Just create a new email account, from anywhere, on any server, using any ISR.
2) Post some public messages on the Internet, making sure your email address appears in plain text.
3) Emails from your pals will soon be automatically duplicated in your new inbox!
I don't know much about the technical aspects behind that, but it worked very well for me:
From: Eve
Subject: lplsthx Viagra at 0.95$ per dose!!! Buy it! ksoier
From: Elene
Subject: Important information for you! Read it immediately!
(I still don't remember how I initially get in touch with Eve and Elene, though, but anyway...)
So, yes, I'm confident. I can't see any security nor privacy issue with such a system.
The Internet seems ready for the Global Data Sharing.
The problem with Slashdot memes is that YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD!
I basically do this sort of thing now on XP. I'm a grad student and am always popping in and out of various computer labs here on campus. The university gives us a meager 100mb of online storage but it is enough for me to store my current work on it. Additionally, because I hate to use ie, I've installed firefox onto the storage space and run it over the network (sure it takes a couple minutes to start, but once started it works fine) and since the labs recently "upgraded" and deleted winamp, I have it installed to my storage space as well.
Sure it is a pain in that I have to do it all manually, but after a couple minutes, I basically have the lab computer set up the way I want it.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
Wa da ya mean... I can already get to hotmail from any computer.
Seriously, I've been moving toward this model for a few years now... the vast majority of my data completely accessable through secure web interfaces. when I'm on a computer more permanantly it's just a matter of configuring an IMAPs account. Computers are turning into comodities whether we like it or not.
-- My hovercraft is full of eels.
Its called SSH.
Have they applied for the patent yet?
Responsibility is the punishment for compentenc
The moment a system likes this starts being used, the department of Homeland "Security" or whatever it is called in the future will insist on reading the contents of everyone's account without a warrant.
They do want to spy on your home computer or laptop also of course, but practically speaking it will be much more difficult for them.
This idea will never fly until government's stop spying on their citizens. And I expect that to happen...never.
Ted
This might be EXTREMELY useful for corporate LAN/WAN's. Althought just switching to something like the Linux Terminal Server Project might provide almost all of the same functionality...
. as p?T1=132+0390
To get the desired functionality at any machine (even Macs?) those machines would already have to be running the client software. So it would not be ANY computer.
Not to mention security. All it would take would be to add a keystroke logger to the machine and you've captured someone's username/password.
http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchdetail
Public terminals are about as trustworthy as public underwear.
"most computers are so personalized . . .that borrowing someone's computer can seem as creepy as borrowing their underwear".
Technology can overcome this.
But ask yourself this: even if all the posted objections regarding (hackers, virii, DRM, snooping by ISPs, etc.) could be conclusively satisfied;
even if all the other posted objections of (convenience, usability, etc.) were overcome;
would you THEN be comfortable with this?
My answer:
NOT WHILE JOHN ASHCROFT IS ALIVE.
(and the same for his EU lackies)
It's a great idea, to move around to different computers and log in and not skip a beat.
Actually, since 1992 at MyCorp my desktop settings move around with me to any of a hundred different computers just by virtue of NIS and NFS mounted home directories with all my preferences.
Just type in a username and passwd to the prompt and off we go.
But this gets to my favorite gripe: computer systems are forever going to great lengths to authenticate me,
Just because the screen displays some particular image and widget doesn't mean anything about the man behind the screen.
This problem is kind of like those ATM machines that enterprising individuals would install in shopping malls for half a day.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
this sounds like something i already accomplish daily through the use of ssh, screen, and vnc
There will always be a need for a laptop. When an engineer goes into a semiconductor fab or some other plant that is worried about losing trade secrets, he/she is not usually given network access. What happens to then?
It looks like good stuff, but we already have the ingredients for a passable facsimile: My network - booted, NFS'd, X-Windowed client node here does pretty much all of this.
So why don't we see a lot more of it? Clearly it is not beyond the wit of man, *right now* to devise such a system.
The answer as usual lies with our human frailties and our supercorporations. Our machines are our status symbols, the software they run* is licensed for limited seats and our content* is DRM'd. We hide our porn on them and share our files using them. Do we/corporations really want our stuff stored on a disk that we can't physically see, touch, and if necessary, unplug?
* = assumes conformity to the "old way" of defining software and content as "Intellectual Property".
I wish at was Friday, but I dont want to wish my life away. So I wish it was last Friday.
I agree with most of the posters who say "what's new" regardless of the technology behind this. X, VNC, Remote Desktop, Mainframe sessions, etc. etc. this has all been done before in one way or another. I also agree with security problems that people talk about. With that, I don't see this really working for the average Jane or Joe.
However, this type of setup in an enterprise would be great. I read a story (can't find it anymore) about how Sun has saved a great deal of money on Real Estate by implementing a system where an employee logs on to a workstation with a smart card in any of their offices worldwide and has access to the system as they normally would. Okay, not very novel. But, what also follows them is their telephone extension over VoIP. Now we are talking.
What they have done is created an environment where they now have 1.5 people to every workstation and were able to eliminate thousands of square feet of unnecessary rented property. This is an example of technology truly helping the overall bottom line of the company.
It makes sense too, if a person is out of the office, traveling, etc. etc. why does their cube need to take up space? Very cool idea.
Again, this type of moving from one system to another in the real world might not make sense, but for businesses it could save millions in technology support and systems costs and, in this case, real estate.
"I'm a karate man. Karate mans bleed on the inside."
I actually had the idea while working with special USB encryption devices.
Would it be an interesting and novel concept to have a key that allows you to plug it into a pub terminal (with appropriate package) that allows you to have your user profile and preferences on it?
IE you could buy USB device/key, set up your desktop environment on it, and then be able to carry it around with you from terminal to terminal. Perhaps keeping the general windows user structure on the key (IE my documents/mypictures folders).
This way you could keep files and such, and if the password you entered in the login screen was also the password which opened the key, you could keep it secure as well.
When you downloaded you could only download to your KEY or a temp folder on the hard drive which would be immediately deleted after you logged off.
If the keys had sufficient on-board memory, say 256 megs, you could get a goodly amount of documents/cookies/cached images on it etc...
People could also buy bigger keys just for this purpose.
I think it would be a great idea.
I also have a few other ideas with portable keys, but this one seems kind of obvious to me.
If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion
Well, the problem is that Big Brother mentality will always be there, how ever much the privacy advocates want. People always feel safer when they know more (hey, we want to know every tid-bit the President do, don't we?). I would be comfortable doing my school projects and other work on a public computer. Heck, I'll check-in on Slashdot every once in a while using those computer and keep the browser session open if I want to.
In US, you can easily buy enough major firearms to wipe out your neighbourhood but a few little fireworks are banned.
When I was in university, you could go to any terminal, log in, and have access to your data. The data didn't move. All processing was done at the mainframe.
I have heard that in the good ol' days, some CAD/CAM terminals were essentially nothing more than a TV, keyboard and mouse. The mainframe generated the video signal, and piped it through a standard video cable to the CAD/CAM monitor. At the same time, keyboard and mouse signals were piped over an analog modem back to the mainframe.
The point is, there is no need for the data to move. All you need to move is the video from the display, the audio from the sound card, and the keyboard/mouse signals. The terminal can be, in essence, a dumb terminal. Instead of a mainframe, you'd log into a server farm.
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
...this is a project best suited to closed networks (e.g. universities, corporations, businesses, etc..)
Imagine being able to type a paper from anywhere on campus and save it remotely to your professor's account, for example. Or to be able to switch locations if you're getting bored with looking out the same window in your office...
However, I think this has too many security issues to make much of a splash outside of such specialized environments.
"... with the same files and applications opened..."
and a license-purchase for every computer you start your MS-application on...
This is kind of cool, the fact that any computer you can check e-mail Etc. However this is just a Big Brother ploy. Just what I really want, is some one else controling my acct. and requiring me to pay them to use a computer. Then if I disagree, with the provider oopus they shut off my acct. Then I will be dead in the water, unless I had a Laptop or my own desktop, server what have you. You know folks at MS are all for this (they alread have it with WIN Term Server. Then they will charge for access and continue to make money. Another problem is when that server catches a virus or worm. Oh no, there goes your access for hours or days. This is kind of like Fastlane, Transpass, or Easypass. If you speed between to toll points. And they make an effort to calculate the time between them (to find out that you were speeding) they can send you a ticket, or revoke your acct. Thats my take on all this.
We have this to a limited extent at my company. Microsoft's roaming profiles allow all your settings and data to follow you around at any of our three locations. Any computer, at any location, looks and "feels" like yours.
I would love to see this in the Linux world. I guess you could try to accomplish this by having centrally located home directories and logins - my college used to do this with the SUNs (back in the day using NIS).
-ted
With screen and ssh.
Why not have some wireless device similar to a poratble USB drive so when I log off my computer my session and desktop settings are beamed to my pocket. Then when I log into another computer it can load my profiles wirelessly from my pocket.
This would be totally transparent to the user, and it would not rely on any external hosts. Everything is done locally and would be much more secure.
How cool would it be to walk up to a random Linux box you've never seen before and login to Fluxbox configured how you like it and have all your Firefox and Thunderbird settings there as well.
Hmmm, I might want to patent this idea before Microsoft does.
I mean, even with the SunRay, it's like, whoo-hoo, we combined VNC and H.263 and you should jump for friggin' joy.
You can already do it with rdesktop and windows, vnc and any vnc-enabled graphical environment, even X11 if you have the right kind of proxy extension enabled. I'm just waiting for someone to polish up a client for the SunRay protocol (it's mostly understood, but no one seems to care enough for someone to finish a client...)
I don't think anyone really wants this.
I think a visual protocol is too specific. The work needs to be in creating a widget/RPC API that lets you splat a standardized local GUI onto remote application servers. XML-RPC might be a part of it, or maybe just a component. Something that lets you pick your "skin" and standardizes on a backend with an interface description language... like XUL or Glade or something, but remote.
Then it'd be real easy to have a consistent view of the state of the app from anywhere.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Not to be anal, but if your PC status that you 'pause' are stored on servers, can they gurantee security?
. . . for being three minutes late. .")
But my post re: privacy/government concerns wasn't yet redundant at the moment I started to write it.
(me mutters "stupid modding system, must get a T1 . .
I always imagined something like that, but with a twist: you carry something the size of an iPod or maybe even smaller wherever you go. The device holds pretty much a home folder, so you just walk up to a public terminal, it connects wirelessly and you can do whatever you need to. For travel purposes you could carry a touch screen the size of a paperback or whatever.
Pedro
----
The Insomniac Coder
I can think of two reasons, Windows and ignorance. Windoze won't do X without lots of effort and then not very well. Everyone else has not learned that ssh -X auto configures everything for you on most distributions.
Sure, I remember dealing with both. X on Windoze is a real pain. Manual X forwarding, while powerful and awesome, is also a pain. Once you find out ssh does all of that forwarding, you only look back if you want to set up multiple X servers.
Intel's effort is aimed at ignorant Windoze users. The whole feature list looks like a bad software page from Tiger Direct. The lack of privacy implied by running my life on other people's computers is really creepy. No thanks, Intel, I have your entire feature set on computers I own with software that has no owners.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
A universal, single connector including video, keyboard, mouse and network.
An iPod-size device that has one such connector. The device has a processor and a disk, which contains your favourite OS.
And you just plug your device at any connector that you find.
Twenty years ago, you could detach from a job on TOPS-20 and reattach to it from another terminal later. Many centralized systems have had features like that. It wouldn't be all that hard to do with X and Linux, if anybody wanted to.
Most of the people proposing stuff like this are desperately trying to lock customers in to some service for which they can charge a monthly fee. With add-ons! Remember Application Service Providers?
That's what I often carry instead of a laptop.
It's just as simple as that: mounting my drive into a random OS installation would give me a huge fit of paranoia every time I'd have to do that. Plus, I have a perfect control of which OS version is on my CD.
The only drawback is, you can't put a Windows installation on a live CD, so I still have to bring a laptop if I need Windows.
And now: imagine a BeoWulf clus... -CLICK-
SeqBox
::shrugs::
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Combine this:
http://www.canesta.com/products.htm
and this:
http://www.mvis.com/nomad/index.html
and you're good.
I've had this on my SunRay at work for years - take my card out, move somewhere else, stick card in... I'm back to where I left off.
That said, I still keep some big honking boxen around that I use as compute servers so I can get real work done - but there is nothing new here
Nothing new to see here - move on
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
Imagine a world where telehpones become so ubiquitous that the idea of carrying a personal cell phone will almost be laughable, a world where any pay phone could be your telephone!
I used to bulls-eye womp-rats in my pants
Uh... Why don't you roll back one day and copy all your work to another computer? Problem solved.
Or am I missing something here?
Founder of Mirror Moon - Tsukihime Game Trans
Who the hell wants to deal with Citrix anymore? And everyone BESIDES microsoft already had similar solutions in place.
Yawn
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
I don't wanna chance getting that computer, you know, the one with the stuck Shift key, or gum under the mouse...
People love to hate the laptop. It's huge, heavy, a pain to travel with, and here to stay.
There are lots of reasons this concept wont work. Security, compatibility, terminal and bandwidth availability are all issues with this approach. Each year laptops get significantly lighter, faster, cheaper and more popular. I heard a statistic recently that it's that soon (possibly happened already) more computers purchased will be laptops than desktops. The price premium for a laptop vs. other options is becoming smaller and as their capabilities expand, much easier to justify.
To illustrate this, my in-laws house is a very old farmhouse. Their is no computer, no keyboards or monitors, no internet connection and barely any electrical system however just a few days ago I was playing lan games with my nieces and nephews there. I have 2 laptops with wireless cards built in and using them I can have a 2 computer office/gaming environment with networking that fits in one bag I can sling over my shoulder. This is awesome, not "laughable".
I can do software development, work on presentations, compose messages all without any infrastructure at all. I can work or play in a field, on a train, in an car, on a bus, or in an airplane half way across the pacific. That's the power of the modern laptop and no web-based app can come close to that. Think about what infrastructure would be needed to make all those places have access to this service and how many companies would have to be involved and taking a cut. Bus companies, car manufacturers, airlines, satellite internet providers, cellular data networks, not to mention farmers with fields. The massive effort it would take to even come close to the capabilities of a laptop is mind-boggling.
There will always be a place for web-based applications and a place for non-web based applications. This concept will probably be appropriate for some content creation and collaboration purposes but I think it's utility is small and the idea of carrying a laptop won't be laughable any decade soon.
set softtabstop=4 shiftwidth=4 expandtab nocp worlddomination
If your hard drive fails, how is it that you will be able to someone save your work, upload to it a DFS, and begin working on a new box, with the data on the failed hard drive?
Or are they implying that user data will stored in a central location?
Of course, the usual caveats of that situation apply (server failure knocks EVERYONE out, the need to keep certain data local and private, latency for large files)
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Macs and *NIX have this. Just configure users to have a home directory mounted wherever they log on.
Even cooler would be to have any computer you walk up to log you on and mount your home directory from your 1TB keychain drive, via Ultra-Bluetooth. Wait, you haven't reached 1TB keychain drives yet? What year is this? Stoopid Timequest directions!
I drank what? -- Socrates
...when I could sit down at the terminal in a co-worker's office and log on as me? Or today, when I can ssh to my office box from anywhere a modem works?
It's so amusing to watch people laboring mightily to add back all the stuff that the "PC revolution" threw out as irrelevant and obviously wrong. And frequently doing a poorer job.
So you have logged in, why can't the computer copy all your files or hijack the session while you're using it?
TECHNOLOGY allowed JEFF GOLDBLUM to upload the COMPUTER VIRUS to the ALIEN MOTHERSHIP!
What is really odd is that Jeff Goldblum is actually from Pittsburgh. And, in Independence Day, a key part of the story line dealt with Area 51. I'm not sure how this all works together, but I bet it all is part of the master conspiracy from a secret government agency where everyone wears Black.
why did not I came up such a brilliant idea ? :p
I can do something similar to this today with ssh and screen.
X11, XDM login and sessions. Walk up to any X11 computer, select your server/desktop and log in on it. Your applications open up, the ones that support sessions open exactly where you left them. When you're done you save the session during logout.
This was the way computers were expected to work back before one company/OS ingrained "one computer, one user" in it's products.
- Imagine a world where computers become so ubiquitous that the idea of carrying a laptop will almost be laughable,...
The premise of the article is that computers are too big to transport. Today, that is true. But, what if the world were instead a world where computers are the size of a deck of cards with virtual I/O devices, so no need to carry around physical keyboards, mice, or monitors?Is there any doubt out there that in the near future (10-15 years) full computer systems will be small enough to carry around with us?
I predict that in the future the need won't exist for the technology this article discusses.
Authority questions you. Return the favor.
We have a system that allows web access to Windows servers using Citrix. The outside computer just needs to have Java installed. You run pretty well any Windows app through it. You can leave sessions disconnected and reconnect to them from other locations. We use SSL connections only (data is further encrypted inside the pipe with Citrix's secure client encryption). Keystroke logging is a problem - particularly with password capture. We use CryptoCard one-time passwords (like SecurID). Users would be better not to type truly confidential stuff into a strange computer, though.
...is that it's awkward to store encrypted data without relying on some kind of secure volume software being installed on the 'dumb terminal'. And have you ever tried installing a Windows app. to a removable drive? The registry doesn't move with you, of course. Even GPG under windows makes some assumptions about the registry (locale, IIRC).
A fat motherfucker laying out a shitty musician twice his age and half his size, and then posting it on his shitty band's website. WOW. Why not just watch wrestling? Cretins co-opted punk a long time ago. This is old news.
I'm sure there will be an iron clad EULA that means you can't do a damn thing about sueing them and even saying you were hacked will be a DMCA violation
Or were you worried about your rights?
---
We spoke for about a half an hour. I don't recall a thing we said. - Colorblind James Experience
If you have things setup at home for remote access, all you need is a 'terminal'. Or if you have accounts at several of the ASP companies out there that made it thru the dot-bust.
Hop on a friends PC.. you get your stuff. Stop at the library you get your stuff..
once hardware becomes free, everyone can do it... ( and embed all sorts of trojans in the 'community' PCs to track your actions )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
But I currently do this now (atleast partially) with firefox on a thumbdrive.
=================
Unix is very user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.
I like playing with hardware, I like having customised and unique hardware configurations. My computers are like an art exhibition when it comes to the hardware collected in them. Look some up: Catweasel, Plusdeck 2, Margi Display-to-go, Plexwriter Premium. Even the more generic sounding stuff like my PCI PCMCIA adapter I just installed is not a usual item in a PC. Sure, I can do most of my work on any PC in the office, but only my laptop has four screens and a USB AA/AAA battery charger.
Athena did this and continues to do this with UNIX on the campus.
e .1 9f.html
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V119/N19/history_of_ath
I've never used it but we all have probably used X11 which came out of it.
Is it just me, or does this article feeeel like it was written in 1994?
All this stuff exists, to a degree, today, in 2004. What a creepy feeling....
Authority questions you. Return the favor.
I already have my server with me everywhere. I'm connected to it using my cellphone and mobiSh. And it's SSH ofcourse. Using screen on it makes it possible for me to detach/reattach processes..
This sort of idea makes several assumptions I am not comfortable with:
1. Network bandwidth will no longer be the bottleneck.
2. Your net connection will be more reliable than your hard drive.
3. Your peripherals will work with any computer ever made.
4. You will be equally productive using a variety of different monitors, keyboards, etc.
5. Your activity on someone else's terminal will not be monitored.
Take number 1, for example. Local storage has been expanding at an astounding rate, well ahead of Moore's Law. Internet bandwidth has been improving in a non-uniform and often non-symmetrical pattern. I can only imagine applications in the future working with ever larger data sets, so I am not very optimistic about a net-driven approach. Something like this might work within an organization where you can control many more variables (though I would expect some resistence even then), but I think it will flop bigtime if they try to shift the paradigm for everyone.
I recall reading about in the those crazy long haired hippies leaving bikes laying around town so that anyone who needed one could take and use. Society expressed its gratitude by stealing every single one.
Where can I get a free upgrade...er I mean where can I try this new technology?
Anonymous Coward
There was actually a discussion on this very topic not too long about computers being network-based as broadband evolved. The concept is similar to that in the game Uplink, where your personal computer links to an ultra-powerful computer in a server room. At some point, the amount of information neccessary for transferring the VGA and audio output to your system and the mouse, keyboard, and other input back to the server, will exceed the amount of bandwidth needed for the content we will be working with on the web. At that point, server space and CPU power could be provided on a monthly basis, with terminals that recieve, transmit, and process the raw video and audio data from the server and transmit input back to the server, thus making your personal files, work, etc. available anywhere there is a public terminal, as long as you have proper verification (my suggestion - an 8mb SD card with up to 4 2mb hashes (for different accounts)). This would have endless possibilities (streaming DVD, no more laptops, wifi access with portable terminals, something like a simplified OQO, plus WiMax, minus hard drive.)
This would also change the way we think of a computer. No more upgrades, no more retail sales of computers, etc. It's like switching from self-operated radios to cell phone networks, in a way: a SIM card is all it takes.
Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped.
Imagine a world where you won't have to buy your own car. A world where you will be able to use public transport in most metropolitan cities to get where you want to go. Where you won't have to bother with things like oil changes, putting gas in your car, and insurance. Are you imagining. Well keep imagining, it ain't going to happen even though the infrastructure is there. People will own cars becuase people like the concept of possession even though its a pain in the ass sometimes. I like computers. I want a computer. I may use this sort of a system if I'm somewhere where I can't get access to my computer, but I'm still going to keep my fucking laptop with me when I can.
Isn't this what terminal/shell accounts were all about?
Looking at all the posts about Sun Rays, VNC over SSH, remote X, and "what if someone hijacks your session", I am absolutely amazed at how many people here seem to completely misunderstand this concept.
1. Sun's Sun Ray is a glorified terminal. All processing takes place on the server, and the resources of the terminal itself are almost non-existant. From Sun's website "Compact, fanless plug-and-work device that processes input and output and manages communication with the shared Sun Ray server." These might be nice if the price stated about $99, not $359. And if I could run the server end on a Linux box (cluster), not some ungodly expensive Solaris behemoth. [Okat, the SunFire v210 isn't expensive, but who the hell wants a 1 GHz UltraSpark IIIi cu to run stuff like this?]
2. VNC over SSH/Remote X. Same issues as the Sun Ray -- not using local resources. You're running everything on a remote server. NOT what the article is describing at all.
3. Hijacking a session, security, etc. Yes, a concern, but it is a totally separate issue. How about keeping a super check, super small USB key with you that has a personal certificate. Then, encrypt all communication between your location and the main servers using that? There are plenty of solutions to this problem.
What this article is talking about using local resources (CPU, sound, 3D acceleration, etc.) to do the task but combine it with a distributed file system. Use the "local" hard drive as a file system CACHE, to speed things up.
Use the "local" CPU and RAM to run programs, not some server on the other side of the world. This way you can run DISCONNECTED or not consume mega networking resources.
Think "IMAP in disconnected mode" or "web browsing while offline".
Sun (and Oracle, IIRC) both eschew this "three tier" client server system in favor of true terminal server sessions. However, terminal sessions, including things like VNC, are too limited when it comes to tasks like 3D display.
By combining the best of terminals (state saved computing) with the power and responsiveness of local resources (think "desktop PC"), they have a lot of potential.
They also have some major hurdles to overcome. Complete hardware abstraction is one. Differences in hardware capabilities, etc. are not trivial problems. (Go from 1280x1024 w/5.1 surround to a 800x600 screen w/o speakers and see how it handles it.)
-Charles
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
they're reinventing VNC, and RAID5? Wake me when they come up with something that hasn't already been implemented several hundred times.
These "researchers" are saying that someday there will be no need to carry around laptops. They say with new technolgoy we'll be able to use other people's computers.?????
Meanwhile at the local Barnes & Noble cafeteria...
(Me) Hey everybody, look at that idiot with the laptop! Ha-Ha-Ha
(B&N Customers) HAA HAAAA HAA HA HA...
(Laptop Owner) *sigh*...
(Me) Excuse me sir, I've gotta work on my Resume, I'm going to need to borrow your laptop.
(Laptop Owner) But you just made fun of me in front of everyone.
(Me) Yes, that's because your an idiot. Who carries around a laptop anymore? It's so passe...
(Laptop Owner) But I brought my laptop here for a reason. I must finish my final...
(Me) Quit your whinin' - step aside! I have my DFS privlidge card. By law you can't say no.
(Laptop Owner) Oh-Okay....if you insist. *grunt*
The future will be great!!!
Authority questions you. Return the favor.
Shouldn't we check if said computation was breaking the law before?
That's the job of the Trusted Platform Module in your Trusted Computing compliant compu^H^H^H^H^H appliance.
She loves me: 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0 She loves me not: 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688BF
Which is it? Having all your stuff stored on the web makes this kind of thing pretty irrelevant. The desktop environment doesn't really matter if you're doing everything inside a web browser and on remote computers.
In fact, you could have a "desktop" in a web browser - I remember a very slick website which made heavy (or should I bold that?) use of javascript and "emulated" afterstep or something, it had a dock and menus and would open windows on other layers. There's no reason you couldn't do the same thing for commercial purposes.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
What is really odd is that Jeff Goldblum is actually from Pittsburgh
Which might explain why he's watching you poop.
How different is this than the Andrew File System, afs? With afs your home directory appears when you log into any computer connected to afs.
I think the idea's a good one, even if it's been implemented before (think LTSP or Sun's terminal system). But what scares me is to think of the consequences for all the various OSes...
If Intel specifically does that for MS Winblows, then linux is as good as dead for the public. Not to mention Mac OS, the BSDs and other 'nixes... I mean, if it's going to be done, ok, but I wouldn't stay away from gentoo in any other way. And I personally don't mind carrying my gentooed laptop around. I wouldn't use anything else if it wasn't for work. So did I misread something, or not read the important bit? Because I didn't see any mention of what OS would run that...
---- I am certain of only one thing : I know nothing else.
Sounds alot like what I've been doing for years with VNC.
I do my work on one machine which is connected to the internet, and I can VNC through an SSH tunnel from anywhere I can get web access.
Sure, this is an extension of that idea, but it's alot of extra effor for not much more benefit compared to what already exists.
This sounds a lot like VNC. When I set up a VNC session at work, I can get my desktop from any compouter at the office. The state is maintained.
Now, if it has sound support (which I've never seen wit VNC) and accelerated 3D support, I will be impressed.
----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
my mate bought a smart card reader, so he could log in to his computer with a smart card. (he obv has too much money)
/home/$USERNAME username=$USERNAME,password=$PASSWORD
i think he said the card can carry 1mb of data (iirc), enough to carry a huge (long) password and the location of the nfs server and login details.
i believe a script could invoke something like this (after reading neccessary information from the card):
mount $SERVER:/home/$USERNAME
(disclaimer - ive not mounted an nfs share for a while so i might have forgotten the syntax)
That was great... poor Danzig, that guy from NSK was fucking huge though. However, Danzig is no bitch himself.
Good clip
..but I will use my own damn computer, thankyou very much
Webmail services (like mail.yahoo.com) are like this in a way. I also have a website setup for myself that I can only access (password protected). I store some commonly used files, etc.
Let me get this straight. The RAM of a computer does nothing much except storing the context, data for running programs, etc. Most modern PCs have at least 512MB of it, and this is bound to increase in the future.
So every logon/logoff is a 0.5GB data transfer? And what about loading all the programs you are using. Many applications are several hundred MBs at least, and thinking that every program users like to use will be locally pre-installed is naive.
Then once you've (eventually) logged in and are presented with your session, you can forget about things like watching a video, opening a large presentation with photos, or pretty much anything other than basic text editing without a large delay. I'll prefer RDP/citrix any day. VNC/RemoteX isn't good enough as the protocol doesn't cope well with lag on slow connections, but it'll still be better than this proposed system.
Its here, its called VMware GSX server.
The original poster vaguely dismissed this by claiming some "generic folder layout that has an abstraction to windows/unix/linux". However, even if we consider that unlikely, the user-specific part of the registry could be included on the removable device.
Windows is already set up to deal with remote registries in some configurations. It can't currently let you log into any arbitrary machine from removable media, but I can't see that as being incredibly hard aside from your encrypted data problem.
Of course, there is also the social issue that lots of people won't like the idea that their computer can play host to another user's entire environment, even if their own stuff is secure and untouched. I'm sure it would be thought of as coming into someone's house and somehow having all of the tables and chairs rearrange and the decor change to match your house, but having it return to the exact original state as you leave. It wouldn't really harm anyone, but most people would find it hard to deal with. People like to own and control things.
This is an excellent idea. I can now issue a single wiretap order and watch every one of you hackers. I'll sponsor access points and kiosks! I will keep you all from looking at the nude human form! By the time I am done, you all will be sexless automatons!
Hrmm. This is Slashdot, isn't it? Sexless isn't much of a threat.
YOU WILL NEVER READ TOM's HARDWARE OR DILBERT AGAIN!
-- J. Ashcroft^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAnonymous.
ohhhhh, THINNER clients... I get it... errr, ummm. The solution to this problem is X-rated. I hope MS gets started on the necessary security measures to make sure my computing is "safe" on this project.
I highly recommend against jumping from computer to computer. I tried it once and ended up breaking my leg when I fell off a Dell. Computers aren't made to be jumped on.
KDE can save your sessions.
Many universities and companies run computers from NFS servers.
That's about the same.
First, I gotta rant a bit: This IS different than VNC and even Sun's stuff. This is talking about (as far as I can tell) suspending and physically moving a running desktop, not just serving your desktop from some central place.
Anyway, my question for this stuff, is how much can you suspend? For files and such, do you lock the files as long as the desktop is suspended? do the files also move with you? etc. This seems to solve some of that my assuming files are stored on internet locations. But, how about devices? If you are using a usb or serial device and suspend, what happens then? How about CDROM's? And if you solv it for todays devices, can you apply that to future ones?
I've thought about this for a while. My thought was to have a desktop that is limited in what you can use, but somehow integrate it with other apps 'n stuff on a PC. I'm not real fond of the "desktop in a window" that you get with VNC, etc. but that would be one way to do it....even better would be some elements of your screen being linked to this desktop and some not. Susupend would act on those only and leave the rest. How about it Gnome, KDE? Can you techncially do it? let's trounce MS before they can figure this out!
AB HOC POSSUM VIDERE DOMUM TUUM
People like to have their own stuff. Even if it costs more, is less convenient, and doesn't work as well, people like to have their own stuff and that's the way it's going to go. Maybe it could happen in a Communist country or something, but not anywhere people can choose.
<xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
I wouldn't type in my password in a computer I didn't trust. Key loggers.
What would I do with my movie collection? I rip a few DVDs to the laptop HD to be able to watch what I want when and where I want. Until every seat on an airplane has a computer, I will have reduced functionality over carying my own, and I don't think that will happen in the next 10 years.
I can currently use just about any computer to SSH into a central computer and work from there. But that doesn't eliminate my need to also carry around a computer with me, nor would I trust every computer to type in the information that could bring down the entire ISP I work for, even over a secure connection.
Learn to love Alaska
I am surprised that nobody has mentioned this yet.
:-)
:-)
Essentially, this 'service' could simply be provided by a Google type web entity. The primary functions general people use their computers for could be handled by a myriad of independant devices supported by a common infrastructure (and Google could provide these within a year). With a single Google user account, all the following services could be provided:
1) Email - gmail
2) Documents - Google could add OpenOffice download with an encrypted user storage directory service. Allowing users to simply download just the parts required (just word, spreadsheet, etc). The client specific hardware being used by the user at the time could retrieve any needed client piece and cache all but the user data. Since the files could be stored in the global directory, they would be accessable from anywhere.
Please note that this could also include document searching, photo albums, etc...
3) IM/VoIP/etc - Google could leverage its massive scalability to provide the backbone for a global IM and VoIP infrastructure; again, allowing the client to download the open source client pieces as necessary, most of which are already currently available.
4) Web browsing - Again, all browser updates could come from the plugins / patches / components cached on Google servers.
5) Games - Components Downloaded and run from installation on user's 'My Games' distributed storage. (This is a topic all unto itself)
6) Media storage? How about being able to have Google store a media stream, and the local account could store the stream offset. You could watch anything you had paid for at any time, from any client (depending on its connection speed). I paid for my cable tv, but I'm always at work. How about letting me receive the MPEG stream from work via the media cache service on Google or a partner's distributed hardware? It could easily be done.
Essentially, any client computing device with an internet connection could install the Google auto-update microkernel based application service and easily perform all the tasks mentioned. Once the sync happens, clients could even go offline and be sync'd up later. This would essentially make OS's irrelevant to the user. Heck, this is essentially the goal of the Java WebStart infrastructure - download what you need, cache the components, and don't mess with the host OS.
The phrase "The network is the computer" comes to mind.
So, how about it Google? I'm available for consultation if you need some help.(ha)
I've always wanted this feature. I hate using other people's computers and I hate lugging my own around. So this is the perfect solution to the problem.
I know it's bad form to plug MS products on
Over a DSL connection you barely notice you're not there.
It's even tolerable on 56k connecion... better than VNC.
I use it literally everyday to connect to my home machine from all over the world. I run it on port 443 which has so far allowed me to access my desktop at home from ANYWHERE, even military networks.
If you run Windows and need this ability... try it it, you'll like it. Ships with XP and 2k/2k3 servers.
Project Athena at MIT already did all of this, back in 1983. Digital Equipment Co Ltd (DEC) even took the technology, productized it and told it onto some Universities in the UK. And all with (at the time) state of the art MIPS Unix workstations.
Here's a link with some info about the MIT implementation:
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V119/N19/history_of_ath
It was really cool technology and way ahead of its time. The only reason it didn't take over the world was because of the prohibitive price of RISC workstations back then. Way too expensive for a corporate desktop. Shame really.
Those who don't understand Unix are doomed to reinvent it, poorly!
Maybe HailStorm was a step in this direction? :-)
I have a thumb drive that I can plug into a windows box, a linux box and a mac box and access all the data on it seamlessly.
Is this what they mean?
...a project that may one day let your work jump from computer to computer without interruption...
Before this can happen we need several prerequisites. The first is standard, open and ubiquitous file formats. If I have a document then it needs to be editable and viewable on every system I happen to use.
But that's not good enough! Let's say I have an OpenOffice sxw document. While it is an open format, it is not a ubiquitous standard. I cannot be assured that OpenOffice will be installed on any given system.
But wait, there's more! A standard format means that more than one application can use the file, but it still means the possibility of multiple applications. Those applications are going to be different from each other (duh!) just like a Ford Taurus is different from a Toyota Prius. The interfaces are going to be different, causing considerable annoyance. And there's not much you can do to change it. Even the Ford Taurus and Toyotal Prius have different interfaces. They do! Ever borrow a friends car, have it start raining, and then have to fumble around trying to find the windshield wipers? Even worse, it might be a stick shift and you're used to manual! Software is many magnitudes more complex than automobiles, so why should we expect the interfaces to be simpler?
There are solutions to these problems, of course. But those solutions will have problems of their own. My point is that this vision of the future is just that, a vision. It might never come to pass despite having the technology to bring it about. We have the technology for personal helicopters, yet where are they?
I think that this vision points to a possibility, but in reality we're going to get something different. No one knows if it's going to be slightly different or greatly different, only that it will be different.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
I'd settle (for now) for just a common API that let me copy/paste MIME objects among my Linux, Windows and PalmOS (phone) devices in my office. OK, I'd keep whining until I had apps for each that implemented the API with a near-bionic UI. Or Grafitti penstroke.
--
make install -not war
Would it use Windows? No, thanks! I'll stick to Mac OS X.
This is the idea behind FirstClass (from the artist formerly known as Softarc, then Centrinity, now the FirstClass division of OpenText). Longtime Mac users, Scandinavians, or alumni of certain universities may recognize what I'm talking about.
FirstClass is a multiplatform client-server setup that incorporates intra- and internet servers (WWW, email, etc.), groupware (conferencing, calendaring, shared resources, file and contact management, etc.), instant messaging, and the best unified messaging I've ever seen. It's like a more capable version of MS or Novell groupware, plus unified messaging, but way more manageable and scalable (think 100 000 users on an NT4 box administered by one part-time administrator, just for one example).
Why it's not better known is quite beyond me. Don't take my word for it, though; download the free trial and check it out for yourself. It's not time-limited or anything, it's not crippleware - it's a full-function server. The only limitation is licenses (you get five user licenses, any more have to be purchased).
And no, I don't work for them. I don't even stand to gain financially from increased business. I just think, based on what I've seen, that it's a great product. Cheers!
Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
I'm a computer student currently studying at a college. I have a computer at home that has personalized settings, as well as a host of software applications, that makes accomplishing tasks such as homework and web-surfing easier. However, a lot of my time is spent at school, in the labs, where they do not have the applications I use, nor do they have my settings. For example, while they have the Firefox browser installed, it is not their default browser, nor does it have Mouse Gestures installed with my settings. So, if I'm preparing for a long period of surfing at school (like I'm doing now as I'm writing this comment), I must install and configure my proper extensions, etc... VNC doesn't work worth a damn from here, as the response time is horrible, and I feel very detached from my machine.
... so hard to protect...
I love customization, and I love the computer that I have set up at home, so it would be nice to be able to access "My Computer" and my applications from any of the school's terminals, or even my girlfriend's place. After all, wasn't that the whole reason why we have different User Accounts on a machine for different users? Imagine if Slashdot didn't have a Login system? I would be browsing at 1 instead of 4 by default, and would have to change my settings for every article.
I look forward to the wide-spread deployment of this system. Only problem I see with it is not a malicious hijacking of the system (AFAIK, it's still not easy to steal my banking records from a bank mainframe undetected), but rather with undetected Government-sponsored raid. I'm not up on American Politics, and don't know the details of the PATRIOT act, but I've heard evils, and can only cringe at how much they would love to get their hands on a database of every computer using this system.
The only thing I can imagine is having a physical counter-part to this system, like a USB memory key, as the access key. If files were stored as encrypted, ID'ed, fragmented, and de-sequenced chunks of anonymous data, the USB key could hold the equivalent of a file-allocation table. In this scenario, one would only be able to gain access (or, more accurately, "rebuild") the system by physically possessing the USB key. Of course, there would have to be safeguards against copying of the USB key, and the key (as well as file chunk ID's) would have to be constantly changing (the data in the key, not the physical instance). Perhaps one would have to create secure USB ports that are not connected to the terminal computer, but only a direct network connection. Then again, it would still suffer from attacks on the central access point.
...I am proof that intelligent beings are not always intelligent...
Public terminals will never be "all" that a normal computer user needs, simply because of security reasons.
I can check my email at my small home town's libary, but i have helped the staff remove key loggers from those machines.
btw i don't carry a laptop, when my computing (internet) needs expand beyond my house i bring along a portable.
With phones, we've actually seen the reverse of what this article suggests. Up to a few years ago, everybody used payphones to make calls when away from home, you found a public phone, put in your money and made your call. But when the cellphones came out, people noticed that payphones can be broken, dirty, hogged by others, nowhere to be found while lying around on the beach. Besides, when someone wanted to call you, it was near impossible for that person to determine which payphone was nearest to you, call that phone and hope that you'd answer it before moving on.
This article wants us to go back to payphones: put up with dirty, broken public computers, walk around and wait forever to find one that's available. No thanks, I'll carry a small computer that's always available, always working and mine and nobody else's.
-hadohk
They're going about this all wrong. When we need to get something done remotely, we want our data, not the satisfying user experience that we create over time in our own home/office environments. Sure, the average user might get excited about wallpaper and customized cursors, but those individuals will be the last to adopt anyway, so they're a poor target market.
I don't understand why more development isn't going into extremely intelligent web-based platforms that can provide us with all of our data through a browser window sans screen grabbing. Making it easy to run AutoCAD 2004 from grandma's 486 when you're away from the office is futile.
'Someone' needs to take this approach: The server is still your computer, and you access it by logging in to a secure web server portion. This layer acts as the middle man between the client and your data. You specify where on your machine the relevant data is located, and the web software feeds it to you in a friendly way. That way, the only bandwidth usage will be for minimal XHTML and CSS code, and the data you need. Mainly, the system should include all the features of a PDA, or generally a utility platform (notes, email, calendar, etc). Heck, it could be made extensible, and a plugin could be an mp3 player that allows you to browse your library, and when you select the song, it streams it at the requested bitrate.
The technology for this exists, but I've yet to see it combined efficiently.
Pretty much the only way for this to work is if all your data that you would have on your pc is stored on some sort of centeral server. In todays time of the Patriot Act, you can better believe that th e Dept. Homeland Security would want to have access to these servers. Lol, and you thought a nosey girlfriend was bad.
Power to the sheeple
I am so exited about this "New technologies" that we never heard of. (Except continuously from the sun CEO since the beginning of the 90s). I have always dream to redact my highly sensitive business plan in some computer somewhere where I have no control or clue of who have access to it.
I could put all my personal compromising pictures, videos, all my personal data and credit cards info, my PHD thesis that I have redacted during 10 years and any other highly precious or/and sensitive data. Of course I will trust them totally because they will never loose anything on some server crash incident and their systems will be 100% hacker proof and employees snooping proof.
I cant wait no more! hook me, hook me please...
Yahh, hiii haaaaa! -Major Kong, from Dr. Strangelove
More proof that corporate patent attourneys sit around re-reading Popular Science magazines from 1990.
I think my dream of locking all of them into a single dentist's waiting room has become... a nightmare.
kulakovich
Sorry, but I followed the link and read the description of Screen, and I don't understand the difference between that description and an ordinary Xterm-like terminal window. I'm not disputing your point, I'm trying to understand it.
If I'm using a GUI, I can already open as many independent terminal windows as I like with their own scrollbacks, copy/paste between windows etc. It sounds as though that's all Screen claims to do, so I'm obviously missing some important distinction between Screen and ordinary terminal programs.
Is Screen perhaps a character mode app that partitions your screen into multiple window panes, each the equivalent of an Xterm window in a GUI, providing the benefits of multiple terminal windows in a GUI without the GUI overhead, or is Screen something different entirely?
"Those who have never entered upon scientific pursuits know not a tithe of the poetry by which they are surrounded."
Ever hear of VNC? Works great for me. Only need a machine with internet access and a browser, and you have a portable, persistant, GUI.
Many campus's around the country had this in the '80's. VAX mainframe and a pile of thin clients all oer the place.
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Compact Flash drives are up to 3GB. In a few years they will be double, getting up to the point where you could store a OS, Apps, and some data on a card you can fit into your wallet.
any computer can already become my computer
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
... with that you can do pretty much everything mentioned in the article, provided you do it in the console (combined with ssh, that is).
You want to use my computer for free?, yeah, right, kindly buzz off and go over and use the public computer, it's right by the vandalized phone, oh, did I mention some bum just pissed in it? and you will have to put in 10 quarters too...and what about that teenage hacker who was last using it?
I think the subject says it all. If only one of the 100 people who have volunteered for the project get malicious ideas, it would be Internet permanent Suspend and Never Resume.
I have been using VMWare for almost a year now with a removable 160GB harddrive. I load all my virtual machines onto the drive and have VMWare loaded on my laptop and desktop. Simply plug the HD into the PC of your choice and load VMWare. Voila! Any OS I choose, with a consistent configuration. Imagine when USB key drives are large enough for this and the workstation or laptop becomes a terminal again. Who needs internet access or terminal services to use your computer anywhere?
I am Ghanaian working on a similar idea for different purpose. In Ghana(and most of "third world") , where the average user cannot afford a computer but will be able to afford a few hours of internet access - this idea would be very useful. I am part of an NGO: Ghanathink(http://www.ghanathink.org) that is currently in the design stages of such a concept. The original idea was from Paa Kwesi a Ghanaian student at Yale Univ. Our architecture builds on the oceanstore project from berkeley for data storage. We basically write the open-source desktop environment that the user sees. ...
Now if only we had the resources that Intel had
-Disterics
You know, they could make everyone ride in Honda Civics or even better, everyone commutes by train. We could all eat the same meals and wear the same clothing. Just think... production and maintenance of these items would be quicker, cheaper, and simpler... and the learning curve would be almost non-existent.
Fortunately, this will never happen in my lifetime. We all have preferences and we never seem to agree on anything. Has this been taken into account by the project planners?
10GB of data, eh?
Me, I've probably got a few hundred meg of data, a few hundred k of which I would find actually useful to port around with me, if that - contacts, documents I'm working on, a list of RSS feeds I'm tracking and the articles in such I've already seen. Maybe a few savegames.
I've also got several gigs of program files. I think the OS runs in at a gig or so itself. I've got a few games installed that probably fill up another 3 or 4 gig. And I've got some digitized music. Far less than the 40gb an iPod can store.
80-100GB? And you need that with you all the time, not just when you're in a private room with a tub of hand cream?
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it."
--Linus Torvalds
Need I say any more?
exec
Leaving that out, then I have to choose the xserver, mouse, screen size and color depth on each box, and can adjust that easily if I try one that isn't what I want.
This is a little off the topic, but there have been some Knoppix users that have gone into a computer store, and tried out a box with their own live CD, so as to see if everything is in fact "linux compatable". On a network, the connection is supposed to be picked up by the OS, and one can try out the internet, or network right away. Modems are the soft spot here, with linux, as so many boxes are built with winmodems. I do build in a starting web page for Firefox that links me to all my internet pages, so I do have a feel that no matter what machine I am on, I am on home territory, and get familiar content.
(If the OS can boot and go on a particular box, of course)
I have not done a lot of roaming around , sticking my CD in various boxes, to see what would happen, but I do have a small group of machines that I do that with, and can imagine what would happen if I turned myself and my CD loose on the town.
Maybe you have 100GB of data, but use only 200MB of them at any given time. It's simple. You just need to transfer the data you need, and the rest on demand. This is naturally what operating systems do on either local disks or network mounted filesystems. Why do you want to transfer all 100GB when you're not likely to need them all?
On the cost to sustain such service for each user that store 100GB of data, I think it's fair to ask a user that demands that much space to pay an initial deposit that is roughly the size of a new hard drive of the size demanded, which will be refunded when you terminate the service. If you only need 1GB, then the initial deposit might be waived.
As to the service will cost money ... of course all services do. And people hesitant to change their lifestyle? It happens all the times, but technology keeps progressing.
I once had a signature.
I see many posts about using VNC or storing profiles on a USB key. I think that both those groups are missing the point. This is not about remote access to your system. It is not about taking your data & settings with you. It is about taking your whole abstracted computing platform with you.
We already have a decent virtual machine that is in common use - the JVM. We already have a way to suspend hardware state to disk - laptop hibernation. Combine the two. Create a JVM that stores its memory and virtual CPU state to a file. Then you can put the resulting file on a USB key, or a web server, or whatever.
You don't have to worry about losing connectivity. You do with remote X, VNC, or SunRay.
You don't have to worry about having a unix home directory on your USB key when the only computer nearby is running windows.
This is a common phenomom of how people don't care how things are done, just the fact that it is done. Maybe one way (utilizing local resources for computing) works better than another (ssh, X session, VNC), but aside from the performance (with some numbers to measure), how the thing works is out of hand for most people to grasp.
I suspect there are still wonders of the problem, some of them you already mentioned, namely how to abstract the hardware so changing the physical machines don't incur changes to the state of the programs you're running.
Alternatively, in a different line of thinking, one can come up with a programming language (possibly some popular language dialect augmented with a "distributed" semantic) with a runtime system that abstracts location. It could end up being implemented as some machine relocatable bytecode (JIT compiled) with RPC interfaces ... again, using existing technology. This way, maybe data accessing code continues to run on the server backend, while interactive code runs on the local end to give a snappy response. Now, this starts to sound like a beefed up Web Browser, doesn't it?
I once had a signature.
In particular, it supports the instant suspend (at any instruction boundary) and resume part. Moving the Virtual Hard Disk file to another machine is no problem, as the OS has been running on totally virtualized hardware.
t ion/evalguide.mspx
They even have rollback disks, although you can't pick an arbitrary point in time.
Linky is: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/evalua
You wouldn't trust a public terminal, but you could probably trust a public power supply so you don't need to carry around batteries. People already trust public wifi networks ala Starbucks. CPUs and memory can continue to shrink, but what about keyboards and screens?
Keyboards can be embedded in cloth which could be rolled up. Displays could be made to be rolled up also (1, 2, 3). People are working on non-volatile nanotube-based memories which could replace bulky, fragile hard disks. Cool, zero boot-up time.
It's pretty reasonable to imagine that in five or ten years there could be a cheap computer with the feel and durability of thick cloth, that rolls up to be about 6 inches long and maybe an inch wide. Maybe you velcro it around your forearm when not in use. I'd buy one.
WWJD for a Klondike Bar?
It might look like a thin client. But in the future computers will be as "thin" as "thin clients", rest assured.
Heck: In the future aren't our freakin' toasters supposed to be as sophisticated as today's average desktop? If so, then this excitement over thin client crap is just that: crap.
You'll have a computer jacked into your brain permanently, and that will be constantly "online" using a wireless satellite connection.
Jesus, get with it: "thin-clients" are boring.
I sit down in front of a flat panel and stick my smart card into one of the docks built into the right side of the screen. The display goes on and shows me my desktop, exactly in the state as I left it when I removed the smart card from another computer last time.
How it would work: the smart card would be several gigs of really fast, non-volatile memory. It would make today's harddisks unnecessary, it would unify the background storage (slow) and the working storage (fast) into one huge address space. File systems would be in this memory. Creating a new document would mean allocating an object in memory.
The docking station (computer) would have no RAM in itself, only a processor and the peripherals. When I insert the smart card, the computer would read the previously saved processor registers (instruction pointer, segment registers, etc.) from a special configuration area on the card and start to "drive" the memory on the card. It doesn't matter what operating system is installed into that memory provided it uses the docking station's API to access the peripherals (video screen, input devices, sound card, network).
(In X, the server runs on the client, while the clients run on the server.)
How is it in Soviet Russia?
What about software license agreements? These would HAVE to be changed, as at the moment a lot of major software (e.g. MS anything) requires you to purchase a license for every "copy" made, and use of this system would technically constitute a "copy". Hell, installing another "copy" of the same OS on multiple partitions needs a separate license. Sure, getting rid of that clause would be a good thing (I personally think it is a load of crap in the first place), but can you really see the big companies allowing that to happen?
Assuming that this requires a standard interface for virtual machines - isn't it the same as saying, install brand X OS on every PC on planet earth. Let all the versions be compatible. And let all these systems be diskless and have a common storage.
What's so radical about this idea ? All the researchers are trying to do is figuring out how to build homogenity over the current heterogeneous setup of connected computers. Why not use Java - use get a desktop, you get security (not very high grade, but still) - why re-invent the wheel.
and thats been around for sooooooo long you sad Internet freaks have only just caught up with its (proprietory) local offline working, replication, on line working, absolute security model, database, document, field level security, geographic independence, local O/S preferences and timezone honoured.....I could go on.