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(But really, who shoots themselves by accident when cleaning a gun? No one sober, for starters.)

All evidence indicates Jeffrey Stenroos was entirely sober.

But it's shooting other people that is really a problem. Take a good look.

You have to read very closely, but unintended fatal shootings in the US from 2005-2010 resulted in 3800 deaths, or roughly 760 per year.

You need to read more carefully as there are known flaws with the reports.

As a frame of reference, approximately 250,000 people die from medical mistakes at hospitals every year, yet there aren't any politicians trying to ban hospitals or regulate doctors.

WTF man? Banning hospitals wouldn't solve the problem, but instead create a whole new one (not that Trump isn't willing to cause hospitals to shut down, mind you..) and there's a shitload of regulation of doctors. Including programs to reduce medical mistakes.

(as evidenced by the fact that gun ownership is at an all time high, but accidental shootings are at nearly the lowest they have been ever).

Sorry dude, we don't have any rigorous data collection on that. Sure, there's Gunfail, but its author notes the lack of actual substantive reporting.

Instead, the errors are well known.

As with any tool in this imperfect world, there are accidents, misuse and abuse, but we must weigh the cost vs benefit of guns, something that the fascist progressives and Dims refuse to do (and have prevented the FBI from collecting statistics on; there is a very cynical reason that you can't find statistics on incidents where citizens save lives or property using their lawfully owned firearm, you can only find "gun deaths").

Nope, it's actually something that the Republicans and the NRA are known to make up numbers/a> about, and furthermore, it's well known that they refuse to let data be collected on gun injuries.

Maybe if you didn't lie so much, you wouldn't have so many problems.

Uh, the State removed 5500 NONCITIZEN registered voters, and at least 1,852 of those ILLEGAL VOTERS actually cast ballots. You keep trying to pitch this as a "right wing nut jobs" kind of thing, but this is hard, factual actions taken by States. Actual REAL illegal votes cast (7,000 in Virginia alone). Documented. Get off the "conservative nut job" talking points. Non-citizen voting is a real thing.

Nope. The Commonwealth of Virginia merely purged a few voters, based on an arbitrary process without actually checking their citizenship status in a robust and rigorous manner. They did nothing to show that the votes were illegal.

Let me know when Virginia actually prosecutes these people, or invalidates any elections.

Otherwise, you're just being a nutjob, pretending that you care.

Or do you want to disenfranchise your fellow citizens? Do you want it to be "it's not the votes that count, but who counts the vote"?

That's what Virginia is doing, by removing people without checking. Their process already had documented errors. Not to mention their gerrymandering which is impactful even if they don't play games with the voting process.

But hey, show you care, write a sternly worded letter to Kris Kobach and complain that HE claimed people were dead when they weren't, denied people's legal citizenship, and otherwise compromised the integrity of the process.

Not going to do it? Well, then, back to the peanut farm with you.

Can you cite any proof of wide scale voter fraud?

I've only read about four documented cases of vote fraud in 2016.
https://www.dailykos.com/stori...

That would be true if every state ran their system like ME and NE.

Not quite. Leaving aside the gerrymandering, even given the current gap in average House sizes, it is still true, given that winning in California takes lots more votes than the entire population of some states.

However, the majority is first past the pole.

Technically you're talking about Winner-take-All.

Here's the states that you mentioned if they worked on a distributed EV system.

If you're talking about how Maine and Nebraska do it, it'd be quite different. like this.

Additionally, while the 1911 Act set the new membership size, The Permanent Apportionment Act of 1929 set it in stone.

No, it didn't. It's worse. It's set in mud. Nobody can get traction to change it.

However, in practical terms, Congress could vote on a new apportionment act, and set it to change immediately, if they so wanted.

But yeah, what might really help is something to widen the partisan spread. WTA, FPTP, are not good things.

So two of the worst wired ISPs are offering wireless service from the worst mobile provider? Where do I sign up?!!!

Wherever you want! That's the beauty of all these mergers. Soon there will just be different brand names all under one umbrella corporation. Similar to car rentals. That way they can trick customers in to thinking there is choice, when really they just suck for different market segments.

And if you think this is monopolistic, think again. By carving up the marketplace, they will and won't compete at the same time!

The following anonymous coward putinbot posts are mine. I don't normally bother signing in to slashdot because it isn't worth the trouble:

WaPo, CIA conflict of interest rag
Guccifer 2.0 is a fraud
TL;DR

I'm a Democrat, not a Republican or a Trump fan or a putin bot. I resist propaganda because propaganda is more dangerous than Trump. I resist propaganda because it is a symptom of a system that is so stacked against ordinary citizens that it may be too late to ever wrest control of our government back from the oligarchs, deep state and military industrial complex.

But since you mention bots, I'll mention paid trolls (not claiming you are one): Correct the Record, ShareBlue. Paid trolls working for Hillary, according to sources I think you'll agree aren't Putin-friendly:

How a super PAC plans to coordinate directly with Hillary Clinton’s campaign
David Brock's Army of "Nerd Virgins" Has Hillary's Back
Clinton SuperPac Admits to Paying Internet Trolls
The making of a Hillary Clinton echo chamber

You can pretend all you like, but you've been shafted twice to get internet access.

I got this from a 20 second search.

Then GOP USA=Sudan & Somalia.

First of all, Sudan has (almost) nothing in common with Somalia — if anything, Sudan's government is too authoritarian. The below applies to Somalia only:

They have no government at all and anarchy

Somalia's problems stem from having a Collectivist government in the past — they are simply at the more advanced stage of what Venezuela is facing.

Both countries are a libertarian paradise.

Wrong. Yours is such a silly meme, it has been debunked numerous times.

But you knew that already — your aim was to portray my argument about Venezuela equally invalid as yours. Well, they don't compare. Because unlike Somalia, Venezuela was repeatedly and actively praised by the very same people calling for the US to "accept progressive principles". Hugo Chavez was a darling of the world's Socialists. Heck, some of these morons continue to adore Maduro!

When I asked DogDude, what would President Sanders do differently from El Presidente Chavez, he got all indignant and would not answer — nor would any other Sanders-sympathizers I've encountered. But Republicans and Libertarians would list a multitude of differences between Somalia and what they would do, given a chance.

As I said, whatever is wrong with the US healthcare, "adopting progressive principles" is not a solution. It would by like treating a headache with suicide.

What a wonderful right wing fantasy. I'll bet you brownshirts fantasize about the Trump pee tape while you jack off and "clean" your gun.

Gun masturbation = death

Yeah.. stroke your gun.

Now look at Donald - his face is pressed against Vladimir's crotch, and his cock is sitting there, like a gun in a holster.

But yeah - you'll snipe those protesters like a big man!

Right wing gun fantasies are fun!

PUEBLO, CO, 2/27/17: Guns and alcohol became a deadly combination when a man apparently shot himself by accident during a night of drinking a motel. Police say the 21-year-old was at the Motel 6 on North Elizabeth Street with a group of friends "drinking with guns in the room" when the shooting occurred. Officers were called to the motel around 2 Monday morning on reports of gunshots. The victim was found dead in a motel room when officers arrived. Officers are still investigating the shooting, but police say that based on the preliminary investigation it appears likely it was an accident. Police are currently not looking for any suspects. The victim has not been identified. MORE: Pueblo Countyâ(TM)s coroner has identified the 21-year-old man who police say died early Monday after accidentally shooting himself at a Pueblo motel. David Michael Nunez died from a single gunshot wound, Coroner Brian Cotter said Wednesday.

JOPLIN, MO, 3/02/17: Breaking new this Friday morning. Joplin Police confirm that an 18-year-old man was killed by accidental gun fire Thursday night. Around 9:30 PM emergency services responded to 2400 Block of South Pennsylvania in regard to a shooting. Upon arrival it was learned that Ronnie Daniels had been shot and was transported to the hospital by ambulance. Daniels died as a result of his injuries. Next of kin has been notified. Joplin Police Detectives are currently investigating the incident. No other information is available. News Talk KZRG will provide more details as information is released.

If you're leaving a state that has high unemployment and a ridiculously high cost of living, amd high taxes, going to a state with low costs, high pay, amd low taxes, recognize that those conditions were created by policies.

Well, turns outs out California is doing great. Unemployment is only 4.9%, lower than Texas at 5%. What a huge difference!

Of course, Texas has a history of poverty and failing schools as well as a dangerous obsession with bathroom inspections.

Even Texas's own governor admits that the state has a problem when it comes to transportation and congestion. And in fact, the California High-Speed Rail project is not light rail, but like the Houston-Dallas link a inter-city connection.

Furthermore, no, Trumpcare does not grant states more freedom. Of course, it turns out, somebody who voted for it admitted they didn't read it.

Maybe that's your problem? You didn't read it, so you couldn't find out what was in it?

I remember This guy who had a knife, and did in mysterious circumstances, apparently, nobody was responsible. Despite massive media coverage, they never found the culprits.

But actually, gun related incidents have occurred quite frequently, while resistance to tyranny through an armed populace has not, and this is not due to a dearth of oppressive tyrants throughout history.

So by my analysis, it's safer without the guns, and they offer no demonstrated impact on thwarting tyranny, but if it makes you feel better, I'd be glad to cut down on the armies as well.

I remember This guy who had a knife, and did in mysterious circumstances, apparently, nobody was responsible. Despite massive media coverage, they never found the culprits.

But actually, gun related incidents have occurred quite frequently, while resistance to tyranny through an armed populace has not, and this is not due to a dearth of oppressive tyrants throughout history.

So by my analysis, it's safer without the guns, and they offer no demonstrated impact on thwarting tyranny, but if it makes you feel better, I'd be glad to cut down on the armies as well.

I remember This guy who had a knife, and did in mysterious circumstances, apparently, nobody was responsible. Despite massive media coverage, they never found the culprits.

But actually, gun related incidents have occurred quite frequently, while resistance to tyranny through an armed populace has not, and this is not due to a dearth of oppressive tyrants throughout history.

So by my analysis, it's safer without the guns, and they offer no demonstrated impact on thwarting tyranny, but if it makes you feel better, I'd be glad to cut down on the armies as well.

+1.
Reading /. on Liferea here (because I, too, saw RSSOwl abandoned -but definitely Liferea is alive and well)
Chances are I'll just abandon a site who abandons RSS...
H.
P. S. and, BTW, Daily Kos RSS feed is http://feeds.dailykos.com/dail... -which at least Liferea handles perfectly ;-)

Thanks for the tips I'll definitely look into options. However, to me, some of the more compelling features of the Tesla cars was their seemingly incredible safety specs, as per the oatmeal comic I poster earlier. That will be a strong consideration for me.
Here is some interesting information I came across today, saves me some work digging out and compiling information, thought you might like it too unless you already made a better version of it.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

Thanks for the tips I'll definitely look into options. However, to me, some of the more compelling features of the Tesla cars was their seemingly incredible safety specs, as per the oatmeal comic I poster earlier. That will be a strong consideration for me.
Here is some interesting information I came across today, saves me some work digging out and compiling information, thought you might like it too unless you already made a better version of it.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

Only I don't go around lumping FDR in with Hitler (Godwin)

Naturally you don't: FDR is a progressive hero, and you don't want to taint his legacy or image. Progressives instead love to lump Trump, Trump supporters, libertarians, conservatives, and anybody who didn't vote for Hillary with Hitler [1] [2] of fascism[3][4].

Pardon me for trying to set the record straight and point out what plenty of academics and historians agree on [5] [6].

Similarly, your blinkered view of history and misplaced reverence may lead you to a very rude awakening.

I actually had quite a pleasant awakening when I came to the US and saw that there was an alternative to the socialism and progressivism that I grew up with. And my view of history is shared by large numbers of historians, political scientists, and US voters. See above.

Lots of women are against a woman's right to choose; Their gender doesn't make them any less deluded...

So you are saying that any woman that doesn't defer to your superior progressive American male intelligence must be "deluded"?

like those Hispanic Americans who supported Trump and are now shocked they live in "Papers Please!" hell.

So you are saying that any immigrant that doesn't defer to your superior progressive American male intelligence must be stupid?

FWIW, I have zero problems with police asking to see my papers when they notice (as they do) that I wasn't born in the US.

That just makes you a Randroid shit who shills for privilege

I'm just "shilling" for myself because I don't want the US to turn into the kind of places my family and I escaped from. The only "privilege" I enjoyed was that I grew up in an intact family that stressed education and self-reliance; by US standards, I was pretty poor growing up.

noticed your habit for calling people names, BTW.

I'm sorry I upset your sensitive progressive feelings by factually calling fascist economics "fascist economics". Why don't you go to your safe space and cry a little? Feel free to continue to spew your vitriol, I have a tough skin; I had to develop that growing up in a rather more homophobic and oppressive environment than you apparently did.

If the GOP was dumb enough to try a coup d'etat by Constitution, they would find out that they don't run as much as they think. There is a reason why they lost the popular vote.

GOP won (by popular vote) 3/4th of state governerships.

Nope. Governorships are not allocated proportionally. Check out the raw numbers, you'll find it is a lot lower.

GOP won (by popular vote) 3/4ths of state legislatures.

Again, nope. Check out the raw numbers, it's heavily warped gerrymandering and voter discrimination. You'll have to do some work, but try the ones that have lost in court. Like North Carolina. Who also tried such a coup d'etat as already mentioned. It failed. Badly.

GOP won (by popular vote) the majority in the Congress.

Nope!

63,173,815 61,776,554 in 2016.
40,081,282 35,624,357 in 2014.
58,228,253 59,645,531 in 2012
44,827,441 38,980,192 in 2010
52,249,491 65,237,840 in 2008

Notice a pattern to it? Not quite what you think. They're still behind 2 million from 8 years ago.

GOP won (by popular vote) the majority in Senate.

Oh, you don't know how the Senate works do you? The Math works out in favor of the Democrats. By 23 million.

GOP won (via the electoral college) the Presidency.

Yes, exactly, relying on the electoral college shows where the GOP is failing.

Every election Democrats lost in 2016 except the Presidential election, was lost in a popular vote.

Oh my, you want to play that card? Turns out, that actually, when you look at the history, you're wrong. Check out the effects of gerrymandering.

Add in the illegal voter discrimination, the unlawful districts in North Carolina, Wisconsin, Texas, Alabama, and Florida, and the loss in their Arizona lawsuit, and it's not looking good for the GOP.

Yeah, I know you don't want to admit it, but the GOP can't afford a coup d'etat. They aren't winning. They don't have a wide swell of popular support. Frankly, they're lucky they didn't lose the popular vote for the House this time, if that had happened, they'd have really looked bad, the disproportionate representation is bad enough, but not quite

Do you deny these things are racist, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, Islamaphobic, transphobic, misogynistic, anti Hispanic, etc and were said by those people?

Ann Coulter:
-"There’s a cultural acceptance of child rape in Latino culture that doesn’t exist in even the most dysfunctional American ghettos. When it comes to child rape, the whole family gets involved."
-"A lot of people are upset when I talk about Mexican child rapes, Muslims clitorectomies, Muslim honor killingswhite people don’t do that. America is not used to these types of crimes. We are bringing in cultures where child rape is very common."
-"It’s going to be a thousand years of darkness if this country stops being this country and we just become a second Mexico, which is where we’re heading right now."
-"In 1960 whites were 90% of the country. The census bureau recently estimated that whites already account for less than two-thirds of the population and will be a minority by 2050. Other estimates put that day much sooner. One may assume the new majority will not be such compassionate overlords as the white majority has been."
-"This is a country created by white peopleI am a Native because I am a descendant from settlers."

Ben Shaprio:
-"Tolerance fails as a virtue, first of all, because it is in some ways demeaning to people." (ok, that one isnt bigoted, other than opposing tolerance....it's just stupid )
-"If you pay tuition, you're sponsoring the militant homosexual agenda. If you pay taxes, you're sponsoring the militant homosexual agenda. If your child majors in English, you're sponsoring the militant homosexual agenda. Tell Billy to major in math."

Steven Crowder:
-best explained here

Mark Levin:
-equates marriage equality to incest
-also of the "Obama is a secret muslim" theory crowd

I'm running out of them.
the short of it is, you're full of crap, these people ARE indeed guilty of bigoted views and statements.

dont want to be called racist?
dont say racist shit.

I am saying that it's rational, when denied of living, to try to kill and steal to get it.

Oh, this is awesome! So, refusing to buy something — such as labor — from you justifies theft and even murder, in your opinion? This is the only interpretation of the quoted sentence, that makes sense in the context of the employment-discrimination...

I know that libertarians think that somalia is an utopia

No, we don't. This is a stupid meme invented by Illiberal morons, who project their own flaws on others and fail to recognize assholes of their own kind. Somalia was a Collectivist "paradise" — and that is, what lead to its current state. The path, I might add, Venezuela — a darling of Socialists world-wide — is now walking down on as well.

prefer to actually have a society where everyone can survive, even without working

If you wish to support those, who can not support themselves, you are welcome to share your own earnings with them. But there is no moral/ethical justification to compel the rest of us — at the government's gun-point, which is how taxes are collected — to help anyone.

Whether they are destitute through no fault of their own or otherwise, the rest of us do not owe them anything. You can appeal to us to help those, you deem worthy of helping, but you must not be able to force us.

rather than face a much higher level of crime.

Ah! So it is not the benevolence, that drives you to help others out, but simply fear of criminals? Nice, for a second there I thought, I'm talking to Mother Theresa (reincarnated). Well, here are some numbers for you... The total cost of crime in the US is about $200 bln/year. The annual cost of the "War on Poverty" is four times that. So, if we eliminate those expenditures entirely — and the crime-levels as much triple, we'd still be saving a few hundred billion dollars a year.

That said, this has nothing to do with discrimination — real or imagined — so let's not get sidetracked.

Is it really wrong to call you a nazi at this point?

National Socialist? You really are in denial about your own self. Those Collectivists also — like you — worshiped the State and expected it to provide them with everything: Education, Healthcare, Pensions... Unlike Socialists — of all stripes — Libertarians advocate for the Individual, however cantankerous, above the Collective, however Glorious.

So far, we've established, that you are a Socialist and that you approve of killing, when people don't want to hire you or otherwise supply you with "living". If you want to see a Nazi, look into a mirror...

I like the bit where you go "I don't know if what I'm saying is true, but it is true cause it is supported by my hate."

Cause that is where you both fuck up ANY credibility your data might have (cause you don't give a fuck about data) - AND you cement your judgment in hate and prejudice.

Guess what?
Republicans held those positions since Obama's second term, enlarging them from the lead they had since his first term.
If you think it's the "witch" - how come Republicans GAINED AND KEPT GAINING seats under Obama, starting from the last population census?

Two words.
Jerry and mandarin.
Oh and BTW, Democrats actually ended up with a net gain chamber-wise while most governor positions weren't even up for election.

But you just go on believing in witches bro. And enjoying yourself. After all, Trump won.
Why are you still so hung up on the other side losing? Get over it already.
Sing Hallelujah, come on, get happy... and all that jazz.
Don't be such a sore winner.

I like the bit where you go "I don't know if what I'm saying is true, but it is true cause it is supported by my hate."

Cause that is where you both fuck up ANY credibility your data might have (cause you don't give a fuck about data) - AND you cement your judgment in hate and prejudice.

Guess what?
Republicans held those positions since Obama's second term, enlarging them from the lead they had since his first term.
If you think it's the "witch" - how come Republicans GAINED AND KEPT GAINING seats under Obama, starting from the last population census?

Two words.
Jerry and mandarin.
Oh and BTW, Democrats actually ended up with a net gain chamber-wise while most governor positions weren't even up for election.

But you just go on believing in witches bro. And enjoying yourself. After all, Trump won.
Why are you still so hung up on the other side losing? Get over it already.
Sing Hallelujah, come on, get happy... and all that jazz.
Don't be such a sore winner.

As any conniving politician would, she has her bases covered. I raise you http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

Nope, guns are a problem. Go read Gunfail sometime.

Meanwhile, for trucks, turns out we do spend considerable time and effort keeping them from hurting people, concrete barriers, separation from pedestrians and more, just to keep people from accidents, let alone intent.

And yes, we also do stop people from making their own explosives. Go try to buy a load of fertilizer some time.

A little more diligence with guns wouldn't hurt, and is supported by a majority of Americans. Just not the overwrought NRA which likes having increased sales for the firearm companies that lead it.

That's what people like you never grasp. Somebody is making money, and they don't want that to change.

Bannon was just recorded on audio the other day at some meeting. The topic was Trump's clear mandate to disassemble the administrative state and gut non-statute regulations. That's the plan. They want to make sure if something's not in the statutory code it's not legally enforceable. The want to completely dismantle the Executive agencies beyond Defense, State, and DHS basically.

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

http://www.nationalreview.com/...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

Pai's not there to provide regulations or play games with regulations. He's there to remove them. "Improved demarcation" means in this context he wants to shrink what each one covers to the point there's obviously no overlap.

Outside of rigidly defined formal logic like math or restructuring into syllogism, there are no formal fallacies.

Yup, that's pretty much it.

The Two Gatekeepers:

If you look around at the way we actually evaluate information, I think you can see that we use multiple stages; there are at least two levels of engagement with two different standards of evidence: the quick look and the close focus. A rule of thumb like "trust the experts" is excellent in the early stages, but the logical fallacies become important in the later stages.

And this response is apt.

Sorry, but your own protestations need a bit of modification to appear somewhat bipartisan yourself. That'd be the civil thing to do.

There's a bit of a problem when a group doesn't even admit they spent Obama's entire presidency doggedly refusing to do anything cooperative.

And they can't even admit to it. So sorry, but that faux martyrdom and deceitful sanctimony deserves scorn.

And I, unlike them, will admit to it. I don't need to lie.

Still trying to get over your Obama Derangement Syndrome?

You know, if you weren't so deadset on repealing the Affordable Care Act, you'd be able to get treated for it.

You apparently did not understand a damn thing I said. The snipped portion does not change anything.

It changed everything, as it pointed out that how many people were defending one side, while hypocritically attacking the other side for speaking out.

Nobody would get that context from your snippet.

You know, what you claimed was done to PewDiePie. You can say you did it accidentally, you can say you didn't realize, but you did it.

Here's a way you could demonstrate your probity. Admit that you selectively quoted in manner which is a problem. Now maybe you can defend yourself, by saying it was accidental, but your clipping the line was leaving out the actual meaning of the sentence.

Like these guys.

But you can claim accident, not intentional fraud. You just didn't think.

Right?

Did you hear about the legislator who lied about buses?

Sorry, but that's become the go-to excuse for Republicans. It doesn't hold as much water as you think.

But a whole lot of them are avoiding the angry public. Huh. or worse.

Blame this on the environmentalists all you want but the Obama admin. tried to get infrastructure reform done for 8 years and the GOP blocked it for no purpose other than spite and a Machiavellian effort to further the interests of the GOP and make Obama look bad. If anybody is to blame for this it is Mitch McConnell and his predecessors. http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

Bingo.

Mitch McConnell was instrumental in blocking proposed bills that would have started addressing the aging infrastructure. Not just once, but over and over again.

when the non-stop losing pattern on the part of the Dems will continue, costing them even more of their dwindling minority in congress.

Non-stop? Just for one example, Dems gained back Nevada, so that's a falsehood, also the New Mexico House, and some poltics worked in Alaska and 6 net seats in the US House. And at least a few special elections have swung their way since Trump LOST the popular vote. Remember that? That's right, it wasn't a landslide, Trump was behind 3 million entirely lawful votes. And no, no, as desperate as you are to believe it, it wasn't just in California and New York.

As much as you may hope the American Left will go away, the odds are that Trump's excessive unpopularity will actually drag down the right. They are responsible for everything, and it'll cost them...just in time for the new census.

You hate that, don't you? You hitched your wagon to the most repellent slug to slink his way into the Oval Office since Taft took over for Teddy Roosevelt.

You won't be able to rely on voter disenfranchisement and gerrymandering to save you. That's been exposed in North Carolina, Wisconsin, Florida, Alabama, Texas, and Arizona.

The people are getting more and more in-tune with the party that serves their interests, and even the most angry fools are retching at what they bought with the Trump.

I partially blame the Environmental groups involved, because of previous hyperbole used in previous reports. That being said (and being a nearby resident), I can assure you that most of the issue was due to the FAILED Primary Spillway not being maintained. The topover caused by the failed spillway was fully preventable, had the DWR and ACE and the rest done their job the last 7 years.

But, instead, we have more infrastructure projects proceeding even though we can't maintain what we got. After all, we need a High Speed Rail Train between Fresno and Bakersfield ASAP!!!!

Blame this on the environmentalists all you want but the Obama admin. tried to get infrastructure reform done for 8 years and the GOP blocked it for no purpose other than spite and a Machiavellian effort to further the interests of the GOP and make Obama look bad. If anybody is to blame for this it is Mitch McConnell and his predecessors. http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

We don't need destructing phones. We need to destroy the financial sector instead.

Yep... That'll take care of the phones too. As well as cars, transport, urban sprawl, light pollution, pollution, police abuses, police, and Electoral College. All the evil known personally to today's humans, in other words.

Let's see... An organization's management wishes for the lower-level employees of the organization to seek the management's approval before publishing the organization's documents outside of the organization... Yes, outrageous... Impeach now!

Science. Allow me to repeat that - Science. You are apparently celebrating that when Science is not in lockstep with Policy, it must be suppressed.

There was nothing in the memo about "science" — nor about "suppression", actually. It is all your and your team's fear-mongering.

You and your team are rapidly becoming the policy equivalent of 1930's Bolsheviks [...] See Lysenkoism

Wait a minute. It is You and your team, that sought civil and even criminal prosecution of people disagreeing with the modern-day Lysenkos. For treason and crimes against humanity, no less. And you are telling me about Bolsheviks? See Projection.

I dare you to find someone more effective than Rudy.

I'd rather have somebody more honest.

He whipped a completely out of control NY government into shape.

Perhaps not

He cut the murder rate in NY from over 2000/year down to like 400/year.

This would be a better argument if not for it being part of a nationwide trend, that started before Giuliani took office, and thus not attributable to any actions of his, or his associates.

his responses on the NYPD brutality are his own responsibility.

He was very effective as a chief executive and in leading and organizing people to get things done.

This kind of praise is very useless, it isn't even tied to specific actions and programs.

He was an effective US attorney for 10 plus years before that.

Jeff Sessions was a US Attorney. I'm not impressed with him either. Especially since he seems to think that he needs to be conciliatory and apologetic to police departments accused of corruption and civil rights abuses.

Same with what's his name in New Jersey.

Look, fine, you want Giuliani to be Ambassador to North Korea, go for it, but nope, not Cyber Security.

I dare you to find someone more effective than Rudy.

I'd rather have somebody more honest.

He whipped a completely out of control NY government into shape.

Perhaps not

He cut the murder rate in NY from over 2000/year down to like 400/year.

This would be a better argument if not for it being part of a nationwide trend, that started before Giuliani took office, and thus not attributable to any actions of his, or his associates.

his responses on the NYPD brutality are his own responsibility.

He was very effective as a chief executive and in leading and organizing people to get things done.

This kind of praise is very useless, it isn't even tied to specific actions and programs.

He was an effective US attorney for 10 plus years before that.

Jeff Sessions was a US Attorney. I'm not impressed with him either. Especially since he seems to think that he needs to be conciliatory and apologetic to police departments accused of corruption and civil rights abuses.

Same with what's his name in New Jersey.

Look, fine, you want Giuliani to be Ambassador to North Korea, go for it, but nope, not Cyber Security.

how did this blatant misinformation get modded informative?

"There are no Christian groups that demand that that for the Bible"

Christian Dominionism must be a new concept to you. http://www.publiceye.org/chris...

Rick Santorum in 2011: http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

Tom DeLay just yesterday: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/...

Mike Lowrie of Louisiana: http://www.rawstory.com/2016/1...

a sitting Colorado legilator: "if you disagree with me and other Christians, you are demon possessed": http://www.rightwingwatch.org/...

the Religious Right's wishlist for Trump to create a theocratic Xtians First nation: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/...

basically anything by this guy: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/...

Jim Bakker who thinks Trump is the Messiah or his forerunner: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/...

"There's no Muslim countries where non Muslims have religious freedom" ....Except Algeria, Lebanon, Tunisia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Jordan, Syria (pre-civil war), Turkey, Indonesia, Kosovo, Djibouti, Albania, Mali, Senegal and Sierra Leone , and a few others. No, not every Muslim country is all hunky dory with other religion...but not every Muslim majority country is Saudi Arabia. And not even every repressive regime in a Muslim country is religiously oppressive; several are secularly repressive.

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

Recent wars/conflicts fought by and over Christianity just off top of my head newer than your joke of a historical record:
-North Ireland
-The Lords Republican Army
-the Croatian and Bosnian wars
-the mistreatment/forceful conversion of Indigenous Peoples in the Americas and elsewhere

Pipelines are only safer then the alternatives when things like the safest route is taken. In this case the safest route was close to Bismark and the people of Bismark protested so the pipeline was moved to go under a lake instead of the shorter route under the river.

Completely wrong on multiple points.

1. It wasn't the safest route,
2. the people of Bismark didn't even have a chance to complain because the early plan was killed before it even got submitted to State-level agencies.
3. It wasn't the shortest route either.
4. It's still going under the river. The 'Lake' is a manmade reservoir in which the river was just widened via a dam.

The Army Corps of Engineers nixed the idea because it made the pipeline 10 miles longer AND it make it much harder to keep the pipeline the minimum 500 feet from homes and put the water of far more people at risk. http://abcnews.go.com/US/previ...

Just an FYI, the entire state of North Dakota has less than 1 million people. Bismark has 67k people, and the entire Standing Rock Reservation has about 8k people.

Also FYI - over 80% of those arrested at the DAPL protests are not Natives - neither North Dakota/South Dakota citizens, nor Standing Rock tribal members.

I think the Standing Rock tribe did get screwed repeatedly historically, and had a right to protest and be heard. However, the Army Corps of Engineers hadn't even made their determination regarding permits to go under the river yet, so none of the sabotage and militant action was justified. All the idiots going "Hey, Why did Bismark get a pass? RACISM!" were jumping the gun because the same agency that made the determination RE: BIsmark were still assessing the Standing Rock crossing - the approval process hadn't even been completed yet.

In reality, most of the protesters currently at the camp in ND have been bouncing from one camp to another along the route causing trouble, spills, and related environmental damage. http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

  The Standing Rock camp just got the most publicity, and the tribe got used again. This time for the alt-left's ideological extremism.

I didn't vote for either Trump or Hillary --- but if you look at what actually happened, you don't need conspiracy theories to explain it.

But that's the thing, too many people on the Trump side are explaining it as...something it is not. That's what has come up here.

Hillary won the east and west coasts, very much as you might have expected. She won them big and that's the main reason for her overall popular vote win.

She lost in conservative states where you would expect that.

The pollsters and pundits misread the situation on the ground in states like Michigan, which they thought Hillary would win, but instead went over to Trump by fairly narrow margins.

Ah, you should look at some maps..

Pretty
pictures.
ok

This appears to be more to do with the economy, jobs, etc., than leaked emails and the like.

Well, it's not because they love Donald Trump. He's now not unfavorable by 2/3 of the country! That's soaring...to new lows.

Of course, all of this can be debated endlessly, but what is there about the election that really leads to a credible theory of manipulation, fraud, and hacking? The fact that Hillary lost is not exactly evidence.

You may or may not be disappointed with the outcome. You may or may not be happy that Trump will be president. But there certainly seems to be a fairly simple and fairly logical explanation for the outcome. That seems a lot stronger than conspiracy theories.

Bzzt, error, error. You're in the wrong section of the thread. This is the section of the thread where we're talking about how Trump's win is not a landslide, is not clearly showing how the American people are speaking, and ultimately how Trump's a lying braggart.

I mean, if you want to discuss something, we could ask ourselves why Wisconsin has the lowest turnout since 2000. Why Michigan had so many problems. Why Pennsylvania election officials lied to potential voters. We could do that. But we won't.

Wouldn't Trump just start his own Twitter?

Call it Cockatoo. Here's a possible logo.

Caveat being that there most likely won't be any leftovers.
Considering that the full cost is "likely to be $6-7 million" and that they are just over the $6 million mark right now.
And that they have made that announcement about "candidate schools" before reaching their goal.
Which in worst/best case (depending how you look at it) might result in a few more Green Party candidates in those states, come next elections.
But most likely, they may even end up in debt. Them lawyers be expensive.
And people knowing where any extra money will go... if they don't want to help them out beyond that mark... it IS their choice to keep giving them money.

Or, if one wants to be a paranoid Democrat about it... worst case may be "helping them reelect Trump in 2020."
"Them" being the Green Party.
I.e. The side standing to MAYBE gain something from the process also taking on all the potential risk. Which, last I checked, was described either as "Nothing ventured, nothing gained" or "In for a penny, in for a pound".

Though, apparently such paranoia lasts less than half an hour before being rationalized away.

BoGardiner statsone
Nov 26 - 02:36:12 AM
I rationalized that it had dawned on her just how harshly history would treat Stein and the Greens for helping make Donald Trump the most powerful and dangerous man on Earth, and she was doing this to salvage their reputation.
I knew it was a gamble, but viewed it like playing the lottery: it can't hurt much, and a remotely likely payoff would be huge.

Linked article was published at 2:09 AM CEST, Saturday Nov 26, 2016, by BoGardiner.

With the announcement today that the Clinton campaign will now join Jill Stein in the recount - I think I pretty much nailed it. This is about trying, hope against hope, to overturn the results of the election. It's pure politics, as you imply (when you state that she "believes Trump will be a disaster"). Especially in light of the fact that, during the campaign, the Green Party endorsed Trump over Clinton; this is Stein fishing for money and her own cabin on the lake.

And people were aghast when Trump wouldn't say, unequivocally, that he would accept the results of the election... I wonder where the outrage is now?

smart, educated citizens that actually understand

But smart and educated electorate are a hindrance! Wouldn't an obedient and worshiping populace be easier to both maintain and lead — without having to spend too much effort explaining things to them?

they need to listen to actual scientists about the validity of scientific results and not to politicians

Didn't you just say, actual scientists have no time for such explanations? Who are we to listen to then? Our media is full of climate-related articles, most of them very alarming. Unfortunately, very few (if any) are penned by the scientists — the vast majority is by professional journalists, politicians, and popularizers. None of them apparently have a Ph.D., which you claimed is required to even understand the arguments — forget about verifying them. Even they talk to the actual scientists first hand — and I doubt, Al Gore ever had, for example — they are no more than first tier.

The rest of us are the second tier, if you will. We are expected to trust these people, who themselves can only take it on faith. No wonder, both proponents and detractors view the public debate on climate as more Religious than Scientific.

or that country is doomed

Could you offer some examples of such calamities from the past? Or are our times unique?

BLM isn't racist.

If "White Lives Matter" is racist, then so is "Black Lives Matter". This is an inescapable conclusion, however you may try to rationalize it.

But I included several other examples of non-White racism, which remains alive and well on Twitter. AmiMojo suggested above, that that is simply because no one has filed a formal complaint against these other racists — the notion I ridicule in this subthread.

But I get it, you simply think crackas are all inherently racist, while no coloreds ever could be.

Then you have not been paying attention for the last 60 years.

Every single election, the democrats trot out their army of race-baiters to gin up energy in their base. Every single election they allege "voter suppression" efforts are keeping minorities from the polls. Every election year any traffic accident or road construction in a minority neighborhood is touted as a Republican conspiracy to suppress the minority vote.

They just use different language. Instead of "rigged", use the words "voter suppression". Here's Huffpo from the 2012 cycle with a top ten list. Here's the Brennan Center from 2008. Here's the Daily Kos covering 2000-2006.

So no, there is no partisan ownership of "rigged election" or "voter fraud". Both parties are fully willing to use this sort of rhetoric to gin up their base. Both parties are perfectly willing to use whatever tool they can grab to gain an upper hand. If that means getting people all riled up about stolen elections, then so be it. If that means falsely accusing people of racism, well, this ain't softball, kid.

And no, talking about rigging elections isn't exclusively tinfoil hat conspiracy theory nuttery. Many serious historians will opine that the election of JFK over Nixon was due to a few fraudulent precincts. Here's a sample from the Wiki, just to appease those who like to ask for citations

Kennedy won Illinois by less than 9,000 votes out of 4.75 million cast, or a margin of 0.2%.[43] However, Nixon carried 92 of the state's 101 counties, and Kennedy's victory in Illinois came from the city of Chicago, where Mayor Richard J. Daley held back much of Chicago's vote until the late morning hours of November 9. The efforts of Daley and the powerful Chicago Democratic organization gave Kennedy an extraordinary Cook County victory margin of 450,000 votes—more than 10% of Chicago's 1960 population of 3.55 million,[49] although Cook County also includes many suburbs outside of Chicago's borders—thus barely overcoming the heavy Republican vote in the rest of Illinois. Earl Mazo, a reporter for the pro-Nixon New York Herald Tribune, investigated the voting in Chicago and "claimed to have discovered sufficient evidence of vote fraud to prove that the state was stolen for Kennedy."[43]

So allegations of rigged elections and voter fraud go back as far as democracy, I'd suppose. And no, it isn't just people on the other team who claim such things.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

She doesn't actually deny it, she just uses the standard anti-vax mealy-mouth that denies the conclusion or the term but then restates the anti-vax positions.

Because herding cattle across a wide area requires managing a wide area. That means more cattle-hands, more moving from place to place, more expending fuel, more maintaining machines, more trying to extinct wolves for eating your cattle (estimate total population in Washington is 90), and, essentially, more wages paid per pound of beef, meaning more cost and higher prices at the grocery store.

I'd rather pay those wages to buy another month of Spotify than employ 40 fewer engineers at Spotify and 40 more ranchers herding cattle and not have anything to replace Spotify.

TellarHK said:
And I'm this case the information they were given was hacked and given to them by Russian intelligence. And, they've made absolutely every possible effort to hurt Hillary's campaign by hyping releases, staggering them, and releasing them at time when they're calculated to do the most potential harm. They are in no way acting like a neutral party.

The only way Wikileaks can have credibility is if they release things on a fully non-partisan basis and that has clearly not happened here.

You are correct sir.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

The headline jumped out at me and I thought it a good idea to post it here. The original story was posted by Tim Peacock at Peacock Panache. They source the following article on Motherboard by Thomas Rid: All Signs Point to Russia Being Behind the DNC Hack.

I think by now, itâ(TM)s a foregone conclusion that the bad actors that Wikileaks is releasing information from are state-sponsored and are from Russia. Putin has made no secret of his political love for Trumpâ and Republicans have used the occasion to make great hay over the DNC and itâ(TM)s terse relationship with Bernie. . . .not out of true concern for Sanders, of course, but because they have had to embrace a very undesirable candidate as their standard-bearer.

The big takeaway from the Motherboard article is the following:

        The metadata in the leaked documents are perhaps most revealing: one dumped document was modified using Russian language settings, by a user named âoeÐÐÐÐÐÑ ÐÐмÑfнÐоÐÐÑ,â a code name referring to the founder of the Soviet Secret Police, the Cheka, memorialised in a 15-ton iron statue in front of the old KGB headquarters during Soviet times. The original intruders made other errors: one leaked document included hyperlink error messages in Cyrillic, the result of editing the file on a computer with Russian language settings. After this mistake became public, the intruders removed the Cyrillic information from the metadata in the next dump and carefully used made-up user names from different world regions, thereby confirming they had made a mistake in the first round.

        Then there is the language issue. âoeI hate being attributed to Russia,â the Guccifer 2.0 account told Motherboard, probably accurately. The person at the keyboard then claimed in a chat with Motherboardâ(TM)s Lorenzo Franceschi-Bicchierai that Guccifer 2.0 was from Romania, like the original Guccifer, a well-known hacker. But when asked to explain his hack in Romanian, he was unable to respond colloquially and without errors. Guccifer 2.0â(TM)s English initially was also weak, but in subsequent posts the quality improved sharply, albeit only on political subjects, not in technical mattersâ"an indication of a team of operators at work behind the scenes.

Rid went on to add:

        The metadata show that the Russian operators apparently edited some documents, and in some cases created new documents after the intruders were already expunged from the DNC network on June 11. A file called donors.xls, for instance, was created more than a day after the story came out, on June 15, most likely by copy-pasting an existing list into a clean document. Although so far the actual content of the leaked documents appears not to have been tampered with, manipulation would fit an established pattern of operational behaviour in other contexts, such as troll farms or planting fake media stories. Subtle (or not so subtle) manipulation of content may be in the interest of the adversary in the future. Documents that were leaked by or through an intelligence operation should be handled with great care, and journalists should not simply treat them as reliable sources.

(article continues.. follow the link above).