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US Life Expectancy Can Vary By 20 Years Depending On Where You Live (npr.org)
After analyzing records from every U.S. county between 1980 and 2014, Christopher Murray, head of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington, and his team found that life expectancy can vary by more than 20 years from county to county. "In counties with the longest lifespans, people tended to live about 87 years, while people in places with the shortest lifespans typically made it only about 67," reports NPR. From the report: The discrepancy is equivalent to the difference between the low-income parts of the developing world and countries with high incomes, Murray notes. For example, it's about the same gap as the difference between people living in Japan, which is among countries with the longest lifespans, and India, which has one of the shortest, Murray says. The U.S. counties with the longest life expectancy are places like Marin County, Calif., and Summit County, Colo. -- communities that are well-off and more highly educated. Counties with the shortest life expectancy tend to have communities that are poorer and less educated. The lowest is in Oglala Lakota County, S.D., which includes the Pine Ridge Native American reservation. Many of the other counties with the lowest life expectancy are clustered along the lower Mississippi River Valley as well as parts of West Virginia and Kentucky, according to the analysis. There's no sign of the gap closing. In fact, it's appears to be widening. Between 1980 and 2014, the gap between the highest and lowest lifespans increased by about two years. The reasons for the gap are complicated. But it looks like the counties with the lowest lifespans haven't made much progress fighting significant health problems such as smoking and obesity. The study has been published in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine.
I'm sure the new republican health care plan will provide more comprehensive coverage at much lower costs thus solving americas poor living in third world conditions. /s
What does your millenial diet consist of? Manchurian-brand RAMEN NOODLES?
Your life expectancy depends on the difference between your agility score and the shooters agility score
If you live in Detroit you might also be the shooter
You can have progressive taxation and universal healthcare or increasing inequality and more illness, fear, death and guns. Your choice.
Those three things are often correlated, so causation may be falsely determined.
I.E. theoretically it could be (but isn't) that genetically the natives are subject to major diseases that reduce life expectancy.
Or, (almost as unlikely), that area could be infectred by a nasty disease.
Or most likely, it is a matter of money and education, both of which has been systematically denied to the members of the lower class that predominate in that area.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
It's a reasonable bet that the people with lower life expectancy are probably not voting progressive. They have less money, worse jobs and lower life expectancy. They don't see progressive solutions as being in their service. At best progressives will lecture them about how their jobs aren't coming back, they should learn to code, go to university, and move to the rich enclaves on the coasts. Not that conservatives are any better, but conservatives figure out that it's better to pretend to listen, rather than to lecture those with less money, worse jobs and lower life expectancy on how they are all privileged transphobic racists and deserve their lot because of it.
FUD much?
That's right, Mr. Wizard. The only alternative to the US is Venezuela.
Be sure not to compare US health to Europe, because your fairy tale about lowering rich people's taxes won't quite hold water, though.
I don't respond to AC's.
If you'd RTFA, you'd have the answer to your question!
Socioeconomic and race/ethnicity factors, behavioral and metabolic risk factors, and health care factors explained 60%, 74%, and 27% of county-level variation in life expectancy, respectively. Combined, these factors explained 74% of this variation. Most of the association between socioeconomic and race/ethnicity factors and life expectancy was mediated through behavioral and metabolic risk factors.
I don't respond to AC's.
Do tell, what President Sanders would've done differently from El Presidente Chavez. I'm listening...
I don't know. What does Bernie Sanders have to do with anything? You said that the alternative to the US taxation system is Venezuela.
Do you have statistics for longevity — and differences in longevity — among Europeans? I'm listening...
Have you heard about this website called "Google"? It's great. You can type in questions such as "What is the life expectancy of people in European countries" and you'll get an answer. You should try it!
I don't respond to AC's.
Wealth Inequality. Poorer counties have shorter lifespans. I suspect if you drill into the details you'll find higher rates of smoking plus a lack of access to to medical care, especially heart disease treatment and pre-cancer screenings and treatment. I guy I work with had heart surgery recently. We make good money with good benefits so it was covered and he was able to work from home for about 90 days while he fully recovered. But if he was the night manager at a gas station he'd have just died. Period.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Nope, I said that Venezuela is an example of all of the "progressive" wet-dreams coming true. And, predictably, turning into nightmare. Whatever our problem, turning the US into a "progressive" country — as the Anonymous OP implores — only makes it worse.
Nope, that's not, how it works. You make a claim — Europeans live longer than Americans thanks to their progressive policies in general and single-payer healthcare in particular — you cite evidence.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Something doesn't seem right here. I live in Summit County, CO for 7 years and no one who lives in Summit County is actually from Summit County, or really even Colorado. Furthermore, even fewer are even year round residents. There's almost no one over the 65 there, the vast majority of the population are younger to early middle age ski bums. The same goes for Eagle County and to some degree Pitkin. Something about the ski bum population is skewing those results. (On a side note, a former Air Force general, Don Kutyna, who ran the US Space Command for a bit skied nearly every day and he was 70+ at the time. Over at Copper Mountain we had Frank Walters who was 80+ and skied hundreds of days a year.)
----- obSig
Hence, a lot of younger people are dying away from hospitals, and older people, especially with money will cluster around geriatric medical facilities, which of course are not evenly distributed.
This will be more a map of facilities and cities and not of life expectancy at all.
If you had a valid point, I'd debate it with you. Instead, you're just spewing red herrings and non sequiturs. I'm not going to waste my time. Best of luck paying for your healthcare.
I don't respond to AC's.
Straight from the liberal rag known as Forbes
I mean, I know you are a Republican and thus dimwitted and gullible, but even a Trumpanzee can at least use a keyboard. Maybe next time think before opening your mouth(other than perhaps to stuff opioids in it)
Monstar L
Actually, the Chavez regimes policies amount to attempting to make Venezuela more like Germany, i.e. social democratic. In case you haven't heard, US political reporting is somewhat biased and poorly informed.
I live adjacent to the Oglala Lakota Reservation. It's a massive ghetto. I'm not surprised in the least that the expected lifespan is so short -- in fact, I'm kinda surprised it's that long. The poverty here is worse than most people realize exists in America. The hardest part is that there's literally no industry for these people to use as a means to climb out of poverty. They receive enough allowance from the government to stay alive -- and that's it.
I'm not a native (heck, my dad wasn't even born in this country), but I feel deeply for our fellow men & women on the res. The USA forced them to live there, forced them into the ghetto -- and now they're too impoverished to ever leave. There's no work, no hope -- the res is the most depressing place imaginable. The lifespan information should be used as an indicator of how badly communities need help.
In rural America its not how long you live, its how much debt you are skipping out on by dying young. You want to know the real reason Donald Trump is so popular? Because he borrowed money like a reckless asshole and managed to stick that debt on other people. That may not be the official American wet dream but it's in the top five.
So if you live in a city with higher income and job opportunities you live longer. Live in a poor rural area and you deserve to die. Nice system
Ironic is these bozos who live in these regions are the most adamant on making sure they do not have healthcare so they can get healthcare in their mind as them having it is communism so give it to others who are rich and it will trickle back???!
I don't get the thought process
http://saveie6.com/
I'm sure the new republican health care plan will provide more comprehensive coverage at much lower costs thus solving americas poor living in third world conditions. /s
For those who want a good visualization, here is the US map of the study results,
and here's the study, click on the "figures and tables" link in the overly complex mishmash of a web page for visualizations and caption explanations.
You need to learn to surrender with more grace. But I'll accept this much... Good luck!
Fine if you want to play that. Then GOP USA=Sudan & Somalia. They have no government at all and anarchy, warlords, and pirates are the result. Therefore that is the alternative to big government if you want to go deep end with analogies.
Both countries are a libertarian paradise.
http://saveie6.com/
Actually, the Chavez regimes policies amount to attempting to make Venezuela more like Germany, i.e. social democratic. In case you haven't heard, US political reporting is somewhat biased and poorly informed.
Not even close buddy. Germany favors free enterprise and is the most powerful and wealthiest country in Europe. Venezuala is more communistic and little non-subsidized enterprise has price ceilings.
http://saveie6.com/
And you ignore the real underlying problems in the US medical system, instead focusing on the shiny coin in the magician's hand.
ACA is only a funnel from the taxpayer's wallet into the insurance industry's pocket. It does nothing to fix the broken, monopolistic system, and instead just serves to bankrupt everyone to the benefit of the already obscenely wealthy.
But hey, keep focusing on bullshit. It's exactly the distraction you're meant to fall for.
Simplistic discussions based on observing relationships between poverty, education, and life expectancy are not helpful in addressing these problems. Poverty and low education simply cannot explain low life expectancy because while they are correlated, they are not reliable predictors. Furthermore, government spending can't be used to alleviate poverty and low education in these communities because we tried that (e.g., the Federal Government is already spending massively on Native American students, with $15,391 per student, compared to $9,896 outside the reservations).
You had me disable AdBlock for this? It is not by Forbes — they simply cite a survey by Commonwealth Fund [wikipedia.org] — an Illiberal organization currently headed by one Dr. Blumenthal [wikipedia.org], who has "chief health advisor to the Dukakis campaign" on his resume.
Nope, that's not, how it works. You make a claim — That the numbers this study provides are wrong — you cite evidence.
"You had me disable AdBlock for this? It is not by Forbes â" they simply cite a survey by Commonwealth Fund â" an Illiberal organization currently headed by one Dr. Blumenthal, who has "chief health advisor to the Dukakis campaign" on his resume.
Seriously?"
Ad hominem is a logical fallacy for precisely this reason - because you don't like the fact that statistics show that developed European countries all do better than the US in terms of life expectancy you're instead attacking the person who did the study.
But that's not how statistics work - the numbers don't lie, take it from this guy, take it from any other, attacking this individual doesn't change the fact that life expectancy in Europe was higher.
I actually followed this thread because I was genuinely intrigued to see where you were going to take the life expectancy argument (because I was already aware it was higher in most European countries, and that you were hence on a losing bet by trying to make that argument). I'm disappointed to see that you've simply decided to deny reality though rather than accept the fact that you were wrong. That doesn't bode well for you as a human being.
What about the CIA?
https://www.cia.gov/library/pu...
Or are they too liberal for you too?
You can't ask someone not to hate you when you're being willfully ignorant, because that highlights you as someone that isn't willing to learn and that's more interested in lying to themselves than having an adult conversation where things like facts actually matter.
I'm curious, do you favour health insurance for just the healthy and wealthy (i.e. those that don't need it) or do you think you should have single-payer and the half-arsedness of the ACA was the problem?
//to do: some lame pun about evictions/convictions or something like that.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Germany doesn't favour free enterprise as a randlicker would recognise it. They have commie things like laws against unfair dismissal and there's even worker representation on company boards. I'm not sure if you're allowed to work 60 hours a week with no extra pay even if you want to.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Here.
Ignoring the countries that have special reasons for longer/shorter life spans, it would be better to live in Iceland or Switzerland than the US.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
LMGTFY
(Wikipedia page entitled "List of countries by life expectancy")
The US is behind every country in Western Europe and neatly bracketed by Chile and Cuba.
... grumble, grumble, grumble, mutter, mutter, Millenium... Hand... Shrimp, I tol' 'em, I tol' 'em.
The ACA has made our healthcare system much, much fucking worse.
I'm curious if you could share some specific examples.
Do tell, what President Sanders would've done differently from El Presidente Chavez. I'm listening...
Do tell, what President Trump will do differently from Reichskanzler Hitler. I'm listening... See how stupid that sounded when you read it? That's how stupid your comment sounded to the rest of us.
Do you have statistics for longevity — and differences in longevity — among Europeans? I'm listening...
It's a about ten years in the UK:
http://www.acegeography.com/re...
Seems to be rather similar in Germany:
https://www.mpg.de/9324818/reg...
I'll let you google the rest... it's not particularly complicated just search on the topic: regional variations in life expectancy <name of country>
Not gp, but let me tell you: single payer is great.
I live under single payer, and although my tax burden is slightly higher, I never have to choose between my health and my bills.
Capitalism breaks down when people's lives are put on the scale. Of course people will pay any ransom when that's the threat.
Typical American idiot. Don't actually dispute anything, just yell "liberal!" Or "conservative!" Like it's some magical word that proves you right.
Racism card to come in 3...2...1
I personally lost all access to medical care under Obamacare.
votoing to work in coal mines , maybe they would live longer.
I wonder if genetic diversity - or rather the lack of it - is part of the equation.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
If people weren't so collectively stupid / selfish they might even see it as a stepping stone to something better again. Unfortunately people are too stupid / selfish and don't see the bigger picture.
https://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10585837&cid=54382761
To be comprehensive that list of "better life expectancy than USA" (overall health, really) includes:
Japan, South Korea, Italy, Australia which score higher than Sweden, and those below Sweden but above the USA:
Canada, France, Norway, Spain, Austria, New Zealand, Finland, Ireland, UK, Germany, and even fucking Greece!
That redefined list excludes the small territories like Guernsey which is a tiny channel island. As counterpoint to excluding that, it has a truly shit economy but still does better in metrics than the US and just about every other territory/nation in the world.
The ACA made every poor, cheap and lazy person contribute something to the unlimited healthcare they got for free before. The Republicans plan takes away the mandatory buying of insurance and replaced it with either nothing or more free unlimited health care.
The ACA had flaws but it set a minimum standard of care, made everyone buy into it, to defray the cost.
the acha under Republicans increases costs by letting people choose not to have coverage, and decreases the ability to get care.
Two governor's are already taking the options that Republicans siad are posion pills that no sane person would take.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Or Australia. Actually it would be better to live in every country which has universal healthcare than in America even if life expectancy is lower. Because what's better dying comfortable and happy at 70 or dying while working 2 jobs to pay your medical bills and trying not to lose your house in the process at 75.
Fuck the USA health system. The best worst healthcare in the world.
A) It's not "progressives" that said their jobs weren't coming back, it's the industry leaders.
Obama telling people their jobs are not coming back, specifically to Carrier people in Indiana. He made a joke about what is Trump going to do, he doesn't have a magic wand. Trump used this new fangled device called a PHONE to help those people, something apparently beyond Obama's ability.
Second Obama video where he says he is going to kill off coal mining jobs. Since Trump took over about half the jobs Obama got rid of in that area have been brought back.
So YES, it is PROGRESSIVES saying the jobs are not coming back and that THEY are going to be responsible for it. Meanwhile Trump is using a PHONE CALL to get them back. Obama should be embarrassed, and so should you for making your comment.
EU working directives limit the working week to a maximum of 48 hours (although there are exemptions).
You're farting into the wind, but well said anyway (sorry, commented so can't mod you up).
I'm not sure if you're allowed to work 60 hours a week with no extra pay even if you want to.
You are not allow. The EU maximum is 48 hours per week on average over a certain period, typically 15-20 weeks. There are exclusions for certain jobs like military, live-in servants etc.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
True. There is also a daily limit of 10 hours at least in Germany (and there are some exceptions).
A manager/employer that regularly requires more than 48 hours/week average over a 24 week time period, faces a prison sentence of up to half a year. First offence is only a misdemeanor with a fine (up to 15,000 Euros).
"the push to keep the ACA around would have made it clear that "progressives" want everyone to live regardless of personal wealth"
That may have been how it was sold to the poor electorate, but not how it worked out in reality.
Every single person I know that bought an ACA plan complained about the deductibles. Sure, the monthly premiums were within reach, but $6000 to $10000 per year in deductibles ensured that the policy was never used.
Sure, some things were covered by the ACA, but if you talked about any other health issues during your "healthy visit" those became billable expenses that hit your annual deductible.
For those that could afford the premiums, the ACA became medical disaster insurance. Many could not even afford the premiums and opted to take their chances on the penalty at tax time.
The ACA was doomed in a couple of ways - it was a financial disaster for insurers, and it did not really help poor people get continual basic care - the stuff that prevents expensive diseases later on.
Those were blue states for 50 years, dumbass. It took them that long to realize that poor people voting for democrats stayed poor. 10 years ago, you could put a dead dog on the ballot with a (D) next to it and it would have won the election. And in return, the democ acts kept us poor so we'd keep voting democrat. Fuck that.
Don't be ridiculous. Nobody dies because they don't have access to healthcare!
Capitalism breaks down when the disparity in power between corporation and consumer becomes so great that all the meaningful choices are solely made by the corporation.
I favor you paying for everyone's others life choices. Liberals, can't claw a donation out of their cold bloodless hands.
The EU maximum is 48 hours per week on average over a certain period
You can waive your right to that in the UK, though you can also revoke it at any time with no more than 3 months notice and the company is not allowed to treat you worse because of it.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
As usual, the UK is weak on worker's rights. I dread to think what it will be like after Brexit.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
and India, which has one of the shortest
Submit to my fate or immigrate? Oh wait, the West and East (hello Australia) is not welcoming my fellow countrymen anymore. But then again, north Indians were hated in south India too. We are so used to it..
First of all, Sudan has (almost) nothing in common with Somalia — if anything, Sudan's government is too authoritarian. The below applies to Somalia only:
Somalia's problems stem from having a Collectivist government in the past — they are simply at the more advanced stage of what Venezuela is facing.
Wrong. Yours is such a silly meme, it has been debunked numerous times.
But you knew that already — your aim was to portray my argument about Venezuela equally invalid as yours. Well, they don't compare. Because unlike Somalia, Venezuela was repeatedly and actively praised by the very same people calling for the US to "accept progressive principles". Hugo Chavez was a darling of the world's Socialists. Heck, some of these morons continue to adore Maduro!
When I asked DogDude, what would President Sanders do differently from El Presidente Chavez, he got all indignant and would not answer — nor would any other Sanders-sympathizers I've encountered. But Republicans and Libertarians would list a multitude of differences between Somalia and what they would do, given a chance.
As I said, whatever is wrong with the US healthcare, "adopting progressive principles" is not a solution. It would by like treating a headache with suicide.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Trump voters live in 3rd world counties, we just have to wait until they die out.
Trumpcare will hasten that up quite a bit.
Venezuela is literally the only example we have ever seen of any socialist policies in action. There aren't say, 32 developed countries thriving on universal healthcare, nope, never. Have you even seen Mad Max? Australia might have better healthcare now, compared to us (according to our president) but in just a few short years: Dieselpunk hellscape.
Capitalism breaks down when the disparity in power between corporation and consumer becomes so great that all the meaningful choices are solely made by the corporation.
Yes, combine it with big money in politics and you have one to a small handful of corporations carving out legal monopolies for a few small bribes. It's not even free market capitalism without some basic protective regulations. It more closely resembles a cartel, or a dictatorship.
In other words, people with more money live longer than people with less money. Wealth is also correlated with responsibility, conscientiousness, education, and intelligence. Who knew that more educated, intelligent, and conscientious people would take care of themselves better than others? Color me shocked. Call us when these factors are corrected for before performing your linear regression.
There is no breakdown by region and there is no way to discern, what exactly is the reason of the longevity/lack thereof. Is it all healthcare? Or climate? Or traditional diet? Or various life-style choices and wealth — and resulting availability of personal cars? Or misguided dieting advice?
Worse, different countries use different standards and rules for counting they very number we are comparing. Some, for example, count all humans, while others discard the still-born babies — thus improving their averages. Even more — some countries would not count babies born live but underweight.
Finally, consider two European countries: Moldova and Lithuania. The former is very poor and corrupt, the former — an EU and NATO member doing reasonably well for an ex-Soviet republic. Both provide "free" healthcare to citizens and long-term residents. Life expectancy in Moldova is 81.4, in Lithuania — 73.9. Why?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Thank you for admitting, that longevity does not really matter to a Socialist — what's important is the triumph of Socialism.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Who controls the British crown? Who keeps the metric system down? We do, we do!
Who keeps Atlantis off the maps? Who keeps the Martians under wraps? We do, we do!
Who holds back the electric car? Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star? We do, we do!
Who robs cavefish of their sight? Who rigs every Oscar night? We do, we do!
The ACA made every poor, cheap and lazy person contribute something to the unlimited healthcare they got for free before.
Wow. Assume much? I couldn't afford health insurance pre-ACA, but always PAID for health care. Ya know, with cash. I'm glad you assume everybody that can't afford crazy high insurance is a freeloader. It does make it easy to spot the person that didn't think very hard before speaking.
The ACA had flaws but it set a minimum standard of care, made everyone buy into it, to defray the cost.
No, what it actually did was allow the already high costs to increase by 25% every year since there was no competition and FORCE me to buy it or pay a tax penalty equal to it. So, great deal, right? Pay for something you can't afford or we'll force you to pay for it anyway, not give it to you, then threaten jail because not paying it is now attached to tax system. Wonderful...
All this steaming pile of shit does is funnel money into insurance companies. Period. End of story.
Do not be a chain smoker. There are better things to put in your mouth.
Or, if you're Donald Trump, Putin's cock (after all, he is Putin's Cockholster).
And if you're a Trump supporter, then you too can get in on the fun with one degree of separation, by swallowing Trump's cock (as many of his supporters are wont to do).
The ACA doesn't make anyone paid who can't "afford it" for certain values of "afford". There is a clause that doesn't mandate coverage if you have minimal income without any penalties. Had some friends choose NOT to pay for insurance and they didn't have any penalties. Had another friend with a heart condition also choose not to buy insurance. His rates were $10K/yr. He was earning well over $200K/yr and decided the penalties were cheaper.
The ACA screwed over lots of people, like my family. We don't work any more. Living off investments after being a well-paid IT consultant for 15 yrs. Without jobs, we have to buy our own healthcare. Effectively poverty level, but because we won't take government assistance, to have health coverage, we are hit with the highest ACA rates.
We have zero health conditions and don't take any medications.
Our hi-deductible insurance under ACA costs 3x more with a 50% higher deductible than our prior insurance. Went from a $5K/yr deductible to a $7800/yr deductible. It mandates coverages we won't ever use - drug addition, mental health, child coverages. We are under 50, childless. ACA bills are higher than any other bill be pay monthly. It costs more than food, car, and house payments individually. We are being screwed.
The republican plan screws over different people - and probably us still. Until we get an option for a single-payer similar to Canada, Japan, and northern Europe, someone will always think they are being screwed.
I'm a libertarian. Think the govt has no place in many things related to what they do. Social security bothers me. FICA bothers me and the ACA bothers me. We are adults and responsible for our own lives. If you want a nanny, join the military and they will take care of you. If you don't like that, move to a different country. Move to somewhere that is a nanny state. There are nice places all over the world with 60% taxation and "free health care." Enjoy. I've been to many of those places AND to places that barely have doctors. Lots of places you can move.
BTW, almost 50% of Americans aren't impacted by the ACA. They have health insurance through their employers, so none of this matters.
Okay, it's kind of obvious if you live in a place like a slum, with more disease, more violence and more temptation to use dangerous recreational (or medical drugs for recreational) drug, not to mention more junk food (through lack of education/knowledge + lack of availability of fresh produce), well, duh. Of course people on average will live less. Oh, let's not forget, lower availability of health care services due to lack of money/insurance or even lack nearby hospitals which is also a part of this. The real question is not why certain areas have lower life expectancy, but why we allow these condition to continue to exist. I'm sure many of can easily find the answer, although most of the answers are horribly cynical/pragmatic and don't speak well of us as a society.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
You can sign an opt-out waiver to exceed the 48 hour limit. Amazon does exactly this with its warehouse staff in the UK. Of course, they can't force you to sign it, but you'll likely find your job mysteriously disappears if you don't sign.
you are a stupid troll
People unable to think clearly die sooner.
Seriously, if you think drugging, drinking and smoking are things you want to be doing, your brain is broken. There's some leeway in there for lacking life experience - teenagers and so on who just haven't seen enough consequences yet to figure out what self-destructive behavior is - but for anyone in their 20's or older, if you've not yet figured this out, you're probably poor, superstitious, and more likely to die sooner than the rest of us.
Don't get me wrong: I think you should be allowed to do all of this, and more along these lines. I just think you're stupid if you choose to.
The ACA made every poor, cheap and lazy person contribute something to the unlimited healthcare they got for free before
The ACA had flaws but it set a minimum standard of care, made everyone buy into it, to defray the cost.
So why didn't insurance get cheaper? The argument was always that people who didn't have insurance were treated for free at the ER, which passed the cost onto everyone else. You'd think that wouldn't be the case now that everyone is covered, so why are premiums and deductibles now much higher?
http://time.com/money/4503325/...
I don't like the Republican health care plan either, but please don't act like the ACA solved the real problem; making health care cheaper.
If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
Avatar was fiction, you know.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Trump should have hired you instead of spicy, you are much better at twisting words and taking things out of context.
How do you look in a bunny suit?
The only thing that I admit is that quality of life needs to go hand in hand with extending the life.
Sure you could say that only socialism matters to a socialist if you had your head up your arse. If you had universal healthcare you may be able to get that fixed too.
Idiot.
FYI I don't give a shit about socialism. What I do give a shit about is being bankrupted for getting health for a curable disease because I don't fall into the protected class. But hey you got it right, the only thing that matters to the capitalist is finding new ways of shitting on and extinguishing the lower class right?*
*That wasn't a question, it was a statement of how stupid your reply was.
The advent of learning systems – very smart, but not conscious – into manufacturing and service automation will (and is beginning to already) move the bar so far, so fast, that a paradigm shift in what "the working economy" actually is will occur within just a few years, leaving pretty much everyone – imported workers, native workers, educated workers, uneducated workers, skilled workers, unskilled workers – without paying jobs.
What "money" is will be changed by the government, along with who gets what, and why. They must change. Either that, or there will be a revolution and the government will fall, along with pretty much everything else.
Learning systems' application to production and service is not like previous technological / economic change. At all. These systems will enter every corner of the economy and underprice all expensive human jobs. The tip of the iceberg is already visible. The job/citizen connection will inevitably be sundered; the money/goods-services connection must change by then (or sooner) or we will see a very sudden disaster that no one wants.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
I'd like to be under the sea
In an octopus's garden in the shade
He'd let us in, knows where we've been
In his octopus's garden in the shade
love is just extroverted narcissism
I'd assume that the CIA takes care to make its statistics comparable, thus applying the same standards to all samples instead of simply relying on whatever any country reports.
As for the countries you cite, the CIA world fact book comes to different averages, in particular 74.9 years for Lithuania and 70.7 years for Moldova, which is pretty much the same almost any other page I could find (give or take a year) comes up with, except the one that you cite. I have no idea where they pulled their numbers out of, but I have to assume it's a dark and rather unpleasant place.
When comparing something, it is relevant to use sources that are at least halfway reliable.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
If rural white voters would stop voting so incredibly stupidly, I'm pretty sure the arrogant urban leftists would settle right down WRT those stereotypes that concern you so.
>you make a claim you cite evidence
>"the progressive solution will make everyone sick"
lol.
Is this really a revelation to these people?
To American Idiots (about 50%:) Insurance works on pools of healthy people paying for sick people - the premiums are directly linked to the number and cost of care for the sick people. Younger people don't need much so they pay for the older people. Then wait for it... they become old and those young people pay for them. Right now we have a lot of OLD people and are just starting to have a boom of younger people starting to pay-- but everybody after baby boomers make less money too. Naturally this is going to raise costs -- not as much as drug companies, but it's a significant factor. Private or public insurance -- doesn't change the nature of insurance. (other than 30+% waste on private... way higher than government graft even in this corrupt system; I doubt Trump will corrupt medicare to even 15%.)
ACA LOWERED BANKRUPTCIES! (healthcare #1 cause, like forever.)
In my state, the local government has not purposely tried to screw up the ACA. I am not high income (part time) possible because of ACA exchanges, previously i was screwed getting individual healthcare. All that crap about negotiating yourself is a lie, you are not worth the time of day and there is no negotiating just a take it in the ass or leave it and gamble on being raped later. I know people too, ACA helped everybody.
Young people without insurance getting FREE expensive emergency coverage raises every paying person's rates. Poor as well. There is always some group stuck on the edge -- either they are full of shit or the politicians left a problem for future political points... like how they make stupid renewals on stuff like minimum wage-- which if it had been pegged to inflation like many wanted (still want) it wouldn't be a non stop problem. Or how a 2-year congress does a yearly budget that wastes so much time when it should be a 2 year budget... plus how the timing is often aligned with special interests.
The system is HORRIBLE but the ACA make it better than it would be. Sadly, the ACA is the best this idiot nation is capable of. Instead of fighting for real solutions we are distracted fighting over a lesser evil -- horribly evil but just less evil. Americans are idiots.
Are you retarded?
The poor and lazy get it for free or dirt cheap. The people in the middle then paid for it all. Premiums and deductibles skyrocketed after the ACA was passed.
The poor and lazy sometimes got free care at emergency rooms or at free clinics, but they STILL get that. Those costs haven't gone down, and those are not directly funded by responsible people paying for their own insurance. The idea was to get the poor people paying SOME amount in, and getting them preventative / early treatment to reduce costs. The problem is many are still paying nothing, those that are paying are getting subsidized by the state, and ultimately the middle class, and preventative care ultimately increases costs. Further, the mandate that requires everyone to be insured just allows insurance companies to jack up the prices because fuck you, you HAVE to pay.
It's a fucking joke! The only "pro" to it is that more people are insured. But ultimately, it's a con in every sense of the word.
From what I've seen personally, quality and availability of care went down. (Current doctor/group is shit, other doctors/groups not taking new patients, across various cities in California.)
What we need to do is simple:
Get rid of the mandate that everyone has to have insurance.
Sever health, dental, vision, etc. insurance from employment.
Require all charges to be identical regardless of insurance policy or lack of insurance. Currently, the uninsured or "underinsured" are given bills with line items that are absolute bullshit. Only the large insurance companies see a bill that somewhat reflects reality.
Require all insurance payouts to be given directly to the insured (or beneficiary) and never directly to the care provider. Most of the time the insurance company never actually pays the amount they claim to.
Stop treating uninsured drug abusers, smokers, alcoholics, hyper fatties, etc. with any public money, either directly or indirectly via requirements to treat at ERs, etc. If they're insured and pay their premiums they should be covered as outlined in their plan.
If you want "free", universal healthcare then you have to do something more drastic. You have to legislate costs of drugs, procedures, etc. And all that will end up doing is providing the insurance companies a guaranteed revenue stream that they will directly lobby to increase ad infinitum.
The headline implies an incorrect conclusion: that where a specific individual lives within the United States will have a great impact on how long such individual is likely to live. But that is not what this study examined. It looked at averages over entire populations.
First, the study considered life expectancy from birth. If you are reading this, you've probably survived infancy, so infant mortality is not a relevant metric to your personal lifespan forecast. Second, you are not the hypothetical average person. You have your own individual risk profile based on health history, genetics, diet and exercise, and access to care. Simply moving to a Native American reservation with high incidence of alcoholism will not necessarily make you an alcoholic. Likewise, an obese alcoholic won't necessarily get fit or sober just because they moved to the mountains of Colorado.
Oh, trust me, us libertarians are going to extract every ounce of mileage out of Venezuela the way socialists extracted every ounce of mileage they could from Somalia, and still do.
10 to 15 years from now we'll be bored of it. 'Till then, better get used to it.
As a Sanders supporter I'm quite happy to answer those questions. You seem to think he is an irrational extremist much like Trump. This is not the case. Sanders merely points us in a direction and providers leadership. It is up the house to produce legislation and if they screw it up then you end up with all sorts of bad.
Just because he wanted free education for all doesn't mean that is the only thing he would accept. Present a bill that makes it more affordable and he'll support it. Present an option for single payer healthcare and he'll support it. He would be the President, not an all powerful dictactor like Trump tries to portray.
There are good ideas in Venezuela, as any intelligent person should know the devil is always in the execution. You learn from failure. Change is painful so change management is important. You can't make education free and do single payer at the same time, that would cause too much disruption to the status quo. That is not said with sarcasm. When you adjust the balance of anything you should adjust one thing at a time or you won't know what threw you out of balance.
The reason that there are not many examples of Libertarian paradise is because it wasn't a paradise when we already did it. America started out with no taxes, that quickly led to a government too weak to be effective. We practiced Laissez-faire and it led to robber barons. People seem to keep forgetting that we have laws and regulations for a reason, when you remove those laws and regulations you'll need to address the original concern or it will just come right back.
The EU maximum is 48 hours per week on average over a certain period, typically 15-20 weeks.
This only applies to normal employees. The rule of thumb is that if you have a boss that can tell you to work more than 48 hours a week, then it's illegal. If you're in the top management, you can do what you want.
How could they? They'd need to know all of the other information to do that.
The data I cited is from 2014, maybe, by now the numbers have changed. But the point is, too many factors affect the average longevity and declaring that "Government-paid healthcare" is the solution to all is incorrect.
And then, of course, comes the revelation, that longevity does not even matter in the first place — because a shorter life in a loving, caring Socialist environment is preferable to longer one of hard work under KKKapitalizm.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
And yet, you didn't...
Communism killed 94 million people in the 20th century directly — plus tens of millions deaths due to Communism-induced famines.
And what was the result of that coercion? Millions of survivors with neither human rights nor material wealth. Nor health care, for that matter.
It is the deadliest school of thought known to humanity so far — even Hitler's peculiar variation of Fascism is a distant second. That is what's to learn from its failure.
Ah, but Socialism is not Communism, you'll say? Bullshit. Socialism is Communism-lite. And, besides, Bernie Sanders is an actual Communist, full monty, anyway.
Bullshit. None of it was worse, than what's happening in Venezuela today, for example.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Australia might have better healthcare now, compared to us (according to our president) but in just a few short years: Dieselpunk hellscape.
Well sure, but only because they want it that way. And who wouldn't? Dieselpunk hellscapes make for great movies. The US should do it too, at least in the southwest where there aren't so many trees in the way.
One thing everyone conveniently forgets when discussing things like this, is that since the US is such a large landmass and such a diverse population, one group or location can heavily skew results of any stats or survey. Nearly all EU countries are pretty homogenous in comparison. Average height is skewed by Mexican and Asian immigrants. Crime rate is skewed by the major "gun free zone" cities. None of those groups count for the majority of the population, but they skew so heavily people love to pounce on them as evidence of one or another of the US's failure. Other countries need to pay attention to the boulder in their own eyes before pointing out the speck of sand in their neighbors.
Antifoidulus claimed, incorrectly, that Forbes is the source of the data — it was important to his argument, that the stats come not from a "liberal rag", as he put it, but a respectable publication. He was wrong, and I pointed it out — Forbes, whatever their credentials, did not put the data together themselves. They simply wrote about stats collected by a highly liberal organization.
I'm ambivalent about Forbes, but if you and Antifoidulus trust them so much, how come you ignored this little gem?
People putting the numbers together lie all the time. Here is just one example of such lying.
Stipulating that's really true, is it because or despite government forcing citizens to pay for other people's healthcare?
-1 redundant.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I'm ambivalent about Forbes, but if you and Antifoidulus trust them so much, how come you ignored this little gem
Damn Forbes and their idiotic "infinite" article stream. The "gem" I was referring to is this: "The Myth of Americans' Poor Life Expectancy"
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I still remember when the minimum salary was introduced, the world was going to end, massive unemployment........
Minimum salary was introduced and live continued as normal
and when the maximum amount of working hours was introduced.....people complained that their working rights were trampled by Europe
When the European parliament proposed to level the working policies across the EU, Britain opposed it and workers here complained about bloody Euro trying to meddle with their working conditions...!?
The EU were trying to give more rights to you.. fucking idiots!
We are comparing apples to oranges. Every time someone holds up the "but in Europe!" card, they're talking about a scandinavian country where half of it's GDP is in natural resource exports (which we can't do because environmentalism) or one with a very homogeneous population with very strong family values and don't eat at McDonald's four times a day.
In America, we have a behavior problem, which sets us up for these inflammatory diseases down the road which, while treatable, lead to exorbitant health care costs - mostly because they are treatable, but enduring.
Throwing more money at health care doesn't make health care cheaper. Finding more treatments to allow people to live longer/survive more diseases will absolutely not make health care cheaper, it will most definitely increase the per-capita spending on health care - because instead of dying we're spending money.
The only thing that will make health care cheaper is changing Americans' attitude towards their food, diet and exercise. Getting rid of the habits that lead to these inflammatory diseases (sugar in *everything*, anyone?) is where we will see our best ROI.
But, here in America we prize individuality, victimhood, and french fries, so good luck with that.
Aww princess. Your $50 donation to charity that mostly goes to covering costs of soliciting donations is super appreciated.
Both the French and Russian revolutions were by the middle class.
The poor will happily fight to death against another nation or religion. But they will never fight against their betters.
Middle class Americans are no worse off than middle class Europeans.
How the CIA gets its information? I don't know if I really want to know. What I do know, though, is that I cross referenced the information they offer and so far I have not found any (sensible) sources that contradict them.
The numbers from 2014 and 2015 are probably going to differ, but not by 10 years. Let's face it, I have no idea what the page you cited was but the information it offers should be taken as entertainment rather than as a base for argument. And while your point may be that you desperately want to show that government mandated healthcare isn't a good thing, you fail at it. Because your examples are either bogus or simply don't show what you want them to.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
That was a hell of a lot of words to say "I'm wrong, but I wont admit it".
You should probably just stop digging, everyone's laughing at you.
Government can assist in forming monopolies, but monopolies can, will, and do form regardless. There's a reason that one of the most famous business adages is that "nothing succeeds like success". The bigger you are, the better terms you can dictate, and a positive feedback loop forms,
A self-regulating system has negative feedback in it that keeps outliers from breaking away and growing exponentially. You have exactly the opposite when businesspeople go around saying "Buy Microsoft. Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft". No government intervention need apply.
Has someone compared just Americans of European ancestry with people still in Europe? Americans of African and native Americas ancestry have much lower incomes and life expectancies. What do these people's lifestyles and unique physiology have to with their health problems outside of healthcare availability?
Ah, that old trick of appealing to the audience... Must be, how you win all your arguments. You accused me of "ad hominem" — incorrectly, and you cited a source (CIA) claiming, it proves what you wanted to prove — also incorrectly. That's 2 out of 2 failures...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I don't need to do anything to "win" the argument - I already did that when I provided more sources and data, and explained why your ad hominem attack is meaningless. That ship has sailed - no matter how much you flap about now that argument is already long lost for you.
After that it's really just about trolling you to try and make you wake up from your ignorance. I'm not going to have any luck though am I, let's be honest, so have fun being wrong on the internet whilst everyone laughs at you.
There was no ad hominem attack. The poster I replied claimed something to be a fact — I demonstrated, that it was not.
The CIA report you cited showed people in other countries living longer on average. That's not, what was claimed. DogDude claimed, Europeans have better health, he said — not live longer. And, no, the two are not quite the same...
A perfectly healthy 23 year-old may break his neck climbing a mountain — dragging his nation's average longevity down. Are there more Americans engaging in risky sports than Europeans? No one counted, but that's likely, because Americans are wealthier. We also die in auto-accidents a lot more often than even Canadians — which drags our average longevity further down, but has nothing to do with neither health nor "progressivism".
Finally, even if DogDude's claim was correct, and Europeans really are healthier — is it because, independent of, or despite their having a "single-payer" healthcare?
You are bringing up this "laughing at me" for the second time... I dread to learn any more about the emotional knot boiling inside your head, if you need to seek vindication from imaginary sympathizers in the imaginary audience...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
"There was no ad hominem attack. The poster I replied claimed something to be a fact â" I demonstrated, that it was not."
Incorrect, you said:
"headed by one Dr. Blumenthal [wikipedia.org], who has "chief health advisor to the Dukakis campaign" on his resume."
"The CIA report you cited showed people in other countries living longer on average. That's not, what was claimed. DogDude claimed, Europeans have better health, he said â" not live longer. And, no, the two are not quite the same..."
Incorrect, you said:
"Do you have statistics for longevity â" and differences in longevity â" among Europeans? I'm listening..."
"You are bringing up this "laughing at me" for the second time... I dread to learn any more about the emotional knot boiling inside your head, if you need to seek vindication from imaginary sympathizers in the imaginary audience..."
Yeah, so about those 6+ troll mods you got on this topic.
I get it, you said something stupid, someone corrected you, it pissed you off, you got downmodded, it pissed you off more, you got more people telling you your wrong, it pissed you off even more. Pissed off people don't back down easily - that's fine, but you ain't fooling me. It's quite obvious you made a tit of yourself, not by being wrong, but by refusing to admit you were wrong, and now you're flapping about still trying to somehow correct what you perceive as a grave injustice by trying to reframe the conversation in your favour even though Slashdot doesn't have an edit button, so you can't actually do that.
I learnt long ago, that when you're wrong, it's easier to either just duck out or admit you were wrong. Trying to turn the argument when you've already long lost it is a foolish proposition. I'd have thought your UID was low enough to have learnt this by now, but I guess not. Simply saying "Sorry, looks like I was wrong - you're right, it appears Europeans do have greater longevity on average" would have saved you so much more time, and avoided you so much more frustration. Be a better person - don't believe you have to get everything right, everyone gets stuff wrong sometimes, no need to be embarrassed about it. Even if someone is a dick about it and says "Hah you were wrong!" so fucking what? It's not like they're someone you have to give the slightest shit about are they?
Dr. Blumenthal was not a party to this discussion. My point was to contradict the earlier assertion, that the data cited originated at Forbes. It did not — the Slashdot user who claimed so, we wrong.
That alone was, obviously, insufficient to claim, that it is European's healthcare model, that's responsible for their longer lives. You are trying to win on a technicality, and failing even that. Because, as already explained, the longevity is not evidence of healthier life.
Nope, you still don't get it. The cited numbers don't prove the stated assertion, namely: "You can have progressive taxation and universal healthcare or increasing inequality and more illness, fear, death and guns."
Ha! If we go by moderation, the above-quoted nonsense from AC would've been a sentiment shared by the entire Slashdot. Which, of course, it is not (phew!). So, somehow, we got a bunch of illiberals in this thread resulting in a one-way moderation — incorrect moderation, by the way, for, right or wrong, I was certainly not trolling. Big deal — even though you chose to be a dick about it...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.