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Half of it is akin to the difference between CD-ROM Mode 1 and Mode 2 Form 1. They hold the same amount of data but have slightly different physical sector layouts, with certain fields moved before or after the data.

In addition, data on a DVD is XOR'd with a linear feedback shift register whose seed changes every sector. This isn't encryption but instead a way to "whiten" the spectrum. That's where the Burst Cutting Area (the "barcode") on a GameCube disc comes in. It encodes not only constants used to compute the LFSR seed but also the logical position of six more holes in the lead-in.

Wii discs are exactly the same, except the entire disc content is encrypted, hashed, and combined with hashes of nearby sectors, and then the hash at the top of the tree is digitally signed with RSA.

Sources: GameCube, Wii

GameCube and Wii discs don't use UDF or this "outside-in" recording method. The physical format is identical to DVD; what's changed is the logical sector format. http://debugmo.de/2008/11/anat... has an analysis of the GameCube format; Wii is similar.

The filesystem is also completely proprietary. http://hitmen.c02.at/files/yag... has a description of GameCube discs; http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Wii_Di... has Wii discs. (Wii discs are similar to GameCube, but it supports multiple partitions and offsets are multiples of 4 in order to address a full 8 GB dual-layer DVD using 32-bit values.)

The reason why most people think GameCube and Wii discs are written "backwards" is because the disc mastering tools deliberately pad the beginning of the disc with filler data in order to push the actual data towards the outer edge of the disc. This is because the CAV drives used in GameCube and Wii are able to read data faster if they're closer to the outer edge.

Nor do combo BD/DVD drives for PCs support game discs pressed in a highly nonstandard manner to thwart piracy. Years ago, I tried a GameCube disc in a standard CD/DVD-ROM drive to see if I could inspect files the way I had done with CDs for the original PlayStation. It failed to read, and I would later learn that this was because GameCube discs had differences in the sector layout (analogous to the difference between normal CD-ROM and XA Mode 2 form 1) and in the formula used to generate the whitening seed. My conjecture was that Sony would use the space in the drive's firmware that would have been used for CD for the nonstandard format instead.

Or can you show statistics that gaming HTPCs have become popular, as opposed to an extreme niche?

I do this.

That makes you one out of seven billion. One out of seven billion is not a market. Even 150,000 as FunkSoulBrother surmised three years ago isn't a market compared to 25 million consoles. There have to be a critical mass of HTPC owners before major PC game developers will spend the time=money to add features to their PC games to target HTPC owners, and it appears some people are dead set against setting up an HTPC.

Wonder if I could do Game cube to? I never looked into it.

To play your GameCube game discs in Dolphin, you'd first need a homebrew-enabled Wii console to dump your games. I've read that most PC DVD-ROM drives can't read the sector format used by GameCube and Wii discs, which differs slightly from DVD.

no one is using cartridges for new games.

Nintendo DS, Nintendo 3DS, and PlayStation Vita use cartridges. Sony tried discs in PSP, but it added too much weight and dragged down the battery life.

Yeah, I know I'm a small market. I'm happy with the set up, even though I get black bars on the TV. I don't have a Wii, but oh well. It isn't like I play the games. It isn't hooked up to the TV. I was thinking more the PS2 games. Good call on the portable. I think cartridge is best for portable, or download to unit. But cartridge most likely.

Or can you show statistics that gaming HTPCs have become popular, as opposed to an extreme niche?

I do this.

That makes you one out of seven billion. One out of seven billion is not a market. Even 150,000 as FunkSoulBrother surmised three years ago isn't a market compared to 25 million consoles. There have to be a critical mass of HTPC owners before major PC game developers will spend the time=money to add features to their PC games to target HTPC owners, and it appears some people are dead set against setting up an HTPC.

Wonder if I could do Game cube to? I never looked into it.

To play your GameCube game discs in Dolphin, you'd first need a homebrew-enabled Wii console to dump your games. I've read that most PC DVD-ROM drives can't read the sector format used by GameCube and Wii discs, which differs slightly from DVD.

no one is using cartridges for new games.

Nintendo DS, Nintendo 3DS, and PlayStation Vita use cartridges. Sony tried discs in PSP, but it added too much weight and dragged down the battery life.

awkward, little, inverse-reading GameCube discs

What do you mean by "inverse reading"? GameCube discs are physically almost the same as 80 mm DVDs, except with a different whitening function applied and several pinholes in the lead-in whose precise positions are encoded in the Burst Cutting Area, according to this description.

it's only a matter of time before people work around those limitations.

And get sued for doing so. Remember Lik Sang?

Put disc in DVD drive and read it. Maybe you just have a shitty drive that won't work.

Or maybe the discs use a variant of DVD's pre-modulation scrambling that regular drive firmware can't read. See this article.

I'll take a PC with almost the entire library of [a bunch of classic video game consoles, many of which use cartridges]

But then how do you copy games that you've bought into the PC? The only NES cartridge reader I know of is a front-loading NES console that has had the CopyNES board soldered into it, and I gather that a lot of my family doesn't know how to solder.

Of course someone like you is always going to come up with some kind of excuse

My only excuse is that I have been advised not to recommend mass copyright infringement to other people.

Big deal, crack the games (even if you bought them)

Even once the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement takes effect in all G-20 countries?

Everybody has a PC

But not everybody's PC comes bundled with a copy of Windows, and for the price of a copy of Windows to install on my Mac, I could buy an Xbox 360.

PC games are priced cheaper than console games.

As Anonymous Coward pointed out in another comment, you typically need more desktop PCs and monitors for a multiplayer PC game than you need consoles and TVs for a multiplayer console game. Not all games are in FPS/RTS genres that require each player to have a private view. Where are the PC games comparable to 4-player console games like Super Smash Bros. series? Otherwise, you have to multiply the price of the game by the number of players in the household.

Also, I can play PS2 and Wii games with my PC. Can your Xbox do that?

What kind of PC drive to you need to read Wii discs, which have a slightly scrambled sector layout relative to standard DVD-ROM?

I own 3 computers with DVD players and a Wii (which uses DVDs).

Wii doesn't come with DVD-Video player software. Its game discs aren't even DVD-ROM; like GameCube discs, Wii discs have a different file system (not UDF), a physical sector format with slightly different anti-direct-current scrambling, and six pinholes punched in their lead-in. There is homebrew software to play DVD-Video on a Wii, but it probably infringes the MPEG-2 and Dolby Digital patents and the major movie studios' anti-circumvention rights (under the U.S. DMCA and foreign counterparts). More importantly, the Wii disc drive is designed for random access, not streaming a two-hour cut scene.

And guess what all major video game consoles use? Non-standard disc formats.

I don't follow you here.

PS3 games are BluRay discs

With nonstandard copy protection.

360 are Dual Layer DVDs

With nonstandard copy protection.

PS2 is Single and dual layer DVDs

With nonstandard copy protection.

Gamecube is mini DVDs

With nonstandard copy protection. This involves shifting the data within the sector, cutting six pinholes in the disc, and encoding the sector numbers that the pinholes overlap in the Burst Cutting Area.

Xbox is DVDs

With nonstandard copy protection.

The dumping code was gamecube code. The dumper has been released, but you have to use a hardware hack to get it to work. From there they figured out how to get code to run through burnt discs. This required a drive chip. The guy who figured that out did not want it publicly released because he wanted a backup hack so that they can run code on future updated systems to find exploits. From reading tmbinc's blog at http://debugmo.de/?m=200801 , I think that this hack will escalate into a firmware hack, as it sounds like they found a bug in the firmware authentication.