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The Latitudes are the regular business systems. The closest to your G4 example in all specs but price and CPU: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=d810sapp&s=bsd

$1270 15.4", P-M 1.73GHz, 512MB, 80GB, 3 year warranty, etc.

If your example was an iBook, then the cheaper Inspirons are a more direct comparison.

Except that the destination, in offshoring, is orders of magnitude weaker. And so is everything in between...

Who says domestic tapping isn't going offshore? Anybody can tap anywhere in the world, it's one of the problems with our highly connected information systems.

Not bad for a 33 year old single mom from da h00d

In 1998 2 stoner friends of mine with hardly any skills earned $60k/year in San Jose doing web maintenance. Not creating web pages mind you, but just making sure the links worked and content displayed correctly.
The IT industry overexpanded, they took anybody and everybody. Right now, unfortunately, talented people are feeling the hardship as well as the untalented. In the long run things will equalize, those who truly have a passion will be the ones employed, not just a warm body.

IP theft is a lot easier when a Chinese spy can tap the factory itself than tapping a computer on the internet. All the internet security in the three universes and infinity and beyond is, as I said, irrelevant when you can get the information - *ahem* - factory direct.

And unless the goverment does something, businesses will pull out to other countries. Getting ripped off is an additional cost which can quickly outweigh labor cost savings.

Actually, we didn't create higher value textiles, electronics or cars - the three major things that got offshored.

Textiles was a dead end industry, cars have actually ended up becoming balanced offshore and onshore, and cheap electronics, we use those to create the entire IT industry. There doesn't have to be a direct progression like IT being a layer of business on top of the electronics one. Value added, means there are goods and services that can gain higher margins that labor can move into. Computer manufacturing has become a low margin affair, it's the services that earn more money. Look at how IBM has reinvented itself.

Cars, computers and cell phones are still the highest value products, and all of it is being made overseas

Cars being made by US workers working for Japanese companies investing hundreds of millions of dollars in the US (including building hybrids). Computers are no longer high value, $299 for a complete system, and cellphones that are literally given away.
Services are higher value. The cellphone service providers, IBM has shed much of it's hardware (hard drives, computers) and moved towards a consulting service and custom chip provider.

You would cry if you saw the PDAs, cell phones and even computers that they sell over there.

I visit there often, and I'll be there next week, I've seen what they have. One of the reasons those products take longer to come to the US is because the market doesn't embrace technology. I've also been to third world countries who have cell phone technology far ahead of ours. In fact they may be more advanced technologically, but they aren't higher value (the margins are still small).
Actually one area where I see Japan ahead is in robotics. There doesn't seem to be much interest in the US. Although there really isn't a big market for it right now, I could foresee that as being one possible area for high growth in the future. It is an area that could exploit cheap electronics, and cheap programming. Japan is by far not a cheap labor market, but could be a global leader in that area, creating a higher value good that uses commoditized electronics and software, AIBOs sell for 2k.

Democracy in the US is being wiped out by wealthy people

Only because the general population is apathetic. The wealthy could always be kept in check through democracy, however, most people don't care. Right now there is false legitimacy to our goverment. It is controlled by the few, but has the legitimacy t

Okay, if you're working for a photographer, a $200 difference shouldn't be outrageous for him to spend.... Dell desktop for $300 (not including software you'd have to buy) versus The Mac Mini for $500, which sounds like it comes with the things you want... Take the 20 minutes to show him how you'd like to do things that could be much easier.

1. Buy a can of petrol and matches.
2. Find an outdoor area, free of flammable materials.
3. Apply petrol liberally to PC.
4. Light match, throw at PC, stepping backwards.
5. http://www.dell.com/

The alternative, Firefox, is too much effort by comparison.

That is completely wrong, my school district, Roanoke County Public Schools, Roanoke, Virginia has been assigning laptops to all of their 5000+ high school students for several years now, using them at home + at school, transitioning to the point of a zero-textbook policy. My school was actually the first [in our school system at least] to implement this policy. The computers are Dell Latitudes, and are commonly broken. Roanoke County hopes to soon implement the same policy in all secondary schools.

P.S. if you thought it was hard to stay out of trouble before, try getting an hour of detention for playing solitaire during lunch. (or 3 hours for shutting down other students computers with the tsshutdn function of terminal services within command prompt and then telling everyone you know how to do it...) Oh yeah, and are schools are also 100% wireless using proffesional linksys access points.

Oh, please... 'Price up something equivalent to a Mac' is up there with 'Windows gives you the BSOD every day' as a line that even the trolls are getting fed up with.

Most people don't want to be restricted by Apple's limited number of configurations at each price point. Price up a Mac equivalent to sub-$1000 desktop PC with expansion slots and without a monitor. You can't because Mac desktops below the PowerMac line don't have expansion slots and force you to use their built-in monitor (the underpowered Mac mini doesn't count). Price up an Apple notebook equivalent to a Celeron M or Pentium M notebook. You can't because Apple notebooks use an outdated CPU.

Try pricing up a PowerMac G5 with something equivalent to a Dell OptiPlex GX620 Minitower. Or an iMac G5 with something equivalent to an MPC ClientPro 414. You'll see that quality PCs can be significantly less expensive than Macs.

There are other reasons for choosing Intel too:
-Intel delivers new processors on a more regular basis than IBM/Moto's fits and starts. It's not because IBM/Moto are incompetant. It's because Intel makes its money off the fast moving consumer market while IBM and Moto make designs for more of the long haul. Think of SPARC chips. They don't progress at the steady rate that Intel chips do. They progress in larger leaps at longer intervals and Apple has had that same problem with IBM/Moto (and it's really only a problem when selling to consumers).
-IBM's ability to deliver. This might be Apple's fault as the article suggests, but even if it is Apple's fault, Apple doesn't want to commit to huge purchases they might not use. Intel offers them the chance to say "we want 100,000 chips" and then a week later say "we need 250,000 more" and get the extra 250k a week after they receive the 100k simply because Intel sells these chips to more than just Apple and so they continue to make them unlike IBM.
-Public Perception. I think this is one of the biggest. Using Intel chips lets the avoid the crap that people say against the processors that Apple has used. I'm sure there are a lot of people that go into a store, see a 1.25GHz Mac mini for $500 and then see a 2.8GHz Dell Dimension 3000 with monitor, kb and mouse for $450 (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features .aspx/featured_desktop1?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs) and think that Apple's are crap for performance and cost too much. If Apple can sell the same configuration as Dell for $100 more, people can justify the premium while not wondering about performance. I'm one of the most pro-Apple and pro-MHz-myth people out there, but I have a hard time believing that a 1.25GHz G4 is going to compete with an Intel processor over 2.5GHz.
-Motherboards. Right now, Apple has to custom build most of their stuff. With Intel, Intel would be more than happy to sell Apple a fully tested, reliable system to install their OS on. No more in house chipsets, motherboards, whatnot.
-It's easy/foolproof!!! This is the best reason. Going with Intel makes you like every other manufacturer out there. When they have problems, you do and so your sales don't slump against their's. You don't have to worry about making sure people know your chips are competitive, you don't have to worry about IBM/Moto keeping interest in a market that doesn't make them money, etc. Apple doesn't have all these worries with Intel. The OS is a big enough draw, especially now at a time when Mac OS X is just beautiful and Windows is getting nastier and nastier to run.

Its not $200, but it comes close: For $300

It even comes with a free printer. 40% cheaper than the low end Mac is quite a large margin. The mid to higher end PC versus Mac comparisons show the $300+ price difference.

Sometimes a BIOS flash will correct issues that BIOS may cause under Linux. A good example of this is BIOS update A29 which "Updates Intel video BIOS & add 'UMA size' setup option to fix the graphics issue with Linux on Inspiron 1100."

Not exactly flashing from within Linux, but check out biosdisk. Gentoo has the package.

Where am I shopping?

http://www.apple.com/
http://www.dell.com/

So let's do a little comparison.

First I configured the "mid-range" iMac with the 17-inch display in the Apple Store. It came to $1,499.

Next I configured at Dell Dimension 4700 with options as similar as I could to the iMac. According to Dell the price is "From $1,744", but currently marked down to $1,308. (And that's exactly the kind of huckster salesmanship that Apple would never pull.)

So. . . The iMac is 1.15 times the cost of the Dell. Not twice as high, not three times as high. And what does your extra $291 buy you? It gets you the iMac's all-in-one design (the Dell is a conventional boxy CPU + monitor), it gets you Mac OS X, and the whole iLife software bundle. And no viruses. And a 64-bit processor, let us not forget. (I can't believe I almost forgot that.)

I had a hard time finding detailed specs, but I'm fairly sure the Dell doesn't come with Gigabit Ethernet, Firewire ports, or an internal bay for a 802.11g card either.

To me, the iMac is worth the money.

It varies from product to product. Last time I tried pricing Power Mac G5 systems against PCs with dual 64-bit processors, and I found the PCs were all considerably more expensive.

Recently a client had a drive fail in a RAID 5 configuration on a Dell server. You know the theory: pull the drive, replace it, watch RAID rebuild. However, that was not the situation. The RAID had quitely become corrupted. Subsequently I discovered from OnTrack that is not as uncommon as one might think. Running RAID 5 on our computers in the office ourselves, I became concerned about this and looked into it further. Luckily, we run Adaptec RAID controllers, Adaptec's RAID controllers (including Zero Channel) have the ability to verify the RAID integrity and repair it. I don't know which other controllers have this ability, but it can be a lifesaver. We run the utility once a month.

Other than a disk array, I would suggest buying some huge SATA drives and a tape drive. Maybe setting up a home file server to store your data.

Just my two cents worth.

...If they never even give us the opertunity to choose it?
Look at Dell's website, there is no option to choose Windows XP N:
http://configure.euro.dell.com/dellstore/config.as px?b=&c=ie&cs=iedhs1&l=en&oc=D07247&rbc=D07247&s=d hs&sbc=iedhsftdppdesktop1

($500 - I have yet to actually see anyone get a computer for $299)

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features. aspx/cto_dp_dimen2400_1?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

$299 Dell (after rebate, not including shipping). It's certainly low end, but it has ethernet and speakers. You made some valid points, but don't go accusing others of hyperbole.

$1299 for an iMac...

A more powerful Dell is $400.

Dimension 3000

So you can get 3 Dells for the price of the Mac.

I'd hardly call the Mac "price competitive"

Big retailers suck... they're slow-moving, and easily suckered into spending all their time on marketing and none on educating their staff or customers. (Micro Center is an exception--I've never found someone stupid there, and only once was someone a little pushy. Still not nearly as bad as Circuit City and Best Buy can be if you get a sales-droid.)

The way Linux will become popular is places like PC's For Everyone--friendly, local computer stores, where you talk to people who know their stuff and aren't just programmed to sell you the most expensive system. I bought my notebook from them and purchased it OS-free, saving $110 over buying it with XP Home. If you combine a friendly store like that with a distro like Ubuntu that is very familiar and usable to Windows users, you could easily start converting users.

(Coincidentally, they're also very nice about supporting Linux: I installed Gentoo--not the world's stablest distro by a long shot--and when I started getting segfaults and such, they easily could have blamed me, the compiler, or my choice of distro. Instead, they fixed it in a weekend, and I had it back with working RAM. Right now it's in for a new hard drive, since it suddenly stopped working unless I rock the laptop to keep it from stalling.)

They also have a much prettier and less cluttered website than Micro Center, and a much easier (and less slimy--it shows real-time price instead of waiting for you to customize your "dream box" and then telling you it costs $4500) customization then Dell. And did I mention they support Linux?

(Some of this praise is due to the fact that, after dropping off my laptop, one of their employees caught me on the way out and sent me home with an Intel hat, polo shirt, and travel mug as thanks for all the feedback I gave them on their website. ;-)

I call bullshit. I just looked up a Precision 470 and the price and specs identical for Windows or RedHat (except for the fact that RH is subscriptionware).

http://catalog.us.dell.com/CS1/CS1Page2.aspx?br=6& c=us&cs=555&fm=11001&l=en&s=biz

Sorry to hear about the loss, buy why not just get a real PDA?

The Dell AXim as an example, has a 640x480 screen, built in WiFi, a touch screen, and more importantly it is a "real" PDA. You can browse the web right out of the box. There are keyboard attachments available for it and even a ton of emulators.

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productde tails.aspx/axim_x50v?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

I'm sorry, but I can't understand why anyone would buy a PSP just for web browsing, or PDA functions, and you're not alone. With a PSP's limited input, it's really no better then a gloriffied cell phone for web navigation and PDA fucntions. I'm a purrist, the PSP I guess, and I feel a PSP is only good for certain genre of games IMO.

A little bargain basement website... http://www.dell.com/

This does not work when your customer buys heavy trucks, milling machines, or office furniture, a few million dollars worth at a time. Now that computing is a commodity, it's no longer working for operating systems.

I'll bet we see a life extension on Windows 2000. Microsoft sales reps are going to call on corporate information officers and see a Red Hat box on the desk during negotiations.

Note that Dell gets this. See their Windows 2000 page. "Dell offers the entire Windows 2000 Server family factory-installed across our enterprise server/storage product lines. Not only does Dell offer Windows 2000 support on new hardware, we also provide tools to help you assess and upgrade your current infrastructure."

Also available from Dell with a $20 mail-in rebate: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.a spx?sku=A0429071&cs=19&c=us&l=en

Dell Support Page

Under 75 Users....
http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/ ap/topics/main/en/os_learning_center?c=ap&l=en&s=g en&~page=5&~tab=4

PS. I haven't used Windows 2003 SBS, but 2000 SBS Server ran like ass.

Would just like to point out that the same memory is also available from Dell for $1049 .

Memory seems to be overpriced from any name brand computer vendor, and in general it's much better to buy memory from a general hardware vendor like newegg.

Well, since systems can't have identical specs between intel and apple (that processor thing, you know), it looks like he chose a component with an exact duplicate in teh PC world.

You've chosen to compare an entire system (with unknown base-price margin) and look at an add-in.

Here's the Dell precision part, should you buy it separately:

1 GB DDR2 PC3200 for $280 each ($560 for 2GB worth).

Now, that looks like a bargain compared to the a la carte price from apple on the identical part. The fact that Dell is willing to sell you the part for an extra $110 installed in their PC, whereas Apple will discount it $550 if they install it for you is interesting. If it were me, I would guess that when the bare box leaves Apple, they've made their profit. If a Bare box leaves Dell, there's probably no margin. Dell hopes you'll just configure your machine and add the extra wihtout checking prices. Also, Dell tends to float 20-25% off coupons for systems on a (daily?) basis, but rarely goes that high with memory and other select peripherals, so it's not suprising that they have priced in a reduction. I don't see many 25% off system coupons in the apple store.

(Disclaimer: I happen to be typing this post on a Dell Precision M70 mobile workstation with a 1.86GHz P4M, 1920x1200 screen, 2GB RAM, 100GB HD, 256MB nVidia Quadra FX Go1400, DVD+/-DL RW, with a 4 year "anything happens and we fix it next day for free", docking station, stand, and extra primary battery that I got for about $1800 after tax. I can say, without a doubt, that coupons can make for an attractive price at Dell)

The supported hardware list seems to indicate that at least one common laptop maker may not be supported very well (supported inspiron 3200, partially supported LS L400, no other details). Hopefully as they get bigger, they'll be able to devote time and resources needed to get running on some of the newer laptops coming out ...

Wrong again knucklescraper. Picking a computer at random, and drilling down to the included software. It's Microsoft Works that's included for free. Maybe some might have Wordperfect. But most certainly not every machine they sell.

Desktops starting at $299 plus shipping. I bought one. No rebates, AOL commitments, or any of that garbage. And the CPU speed is well above "1 MHz."

The $299 deal includes a 17" CRT, but I bought a $20 KVM switch to reuse my existing monitor.

I agree, except for the BTX example. I think BTX is being adopted (gradually) by the mainstream. We can't just expect them to drop all of their proven, mature ATX designs right away for newly designed BTX cases. For mainstream BTX that's already been released, see:

• Gateway 9000 series
• IBM ThinkCentre A51p
• Shuttle i Series
• Dell Dimension 9100 and 5000
• Dell Optiplex SX280, GX280, and GX620

I agree, except for the BTX example. I think BTX is being adopted (gradually) by the mainstream. We can't just expect them to drop all of their proven, mature ATX designs right away for newly designed BTX cases. For mainstream BTX that's already been released, see:

• Gateway 9000 series
• IBM ThinkCentre A51p
• Shuttle i Series
• Dell Dimension 9100 and 5000
• Dell Optiplex SX280, GX280, and GX620

I agree, except for the BTX example. I think BTX is being adopted (gradually) by the mainstream. We can't just expect them to drop all of their proven, mature ATX designs right away for newly designed BTX cases. For mainstream BTX that's already been released, see:

• Gateway 9000 series
• IBM ThinkCentre A51p
• Shuttle i Series
• Dell Dimension 9100 and 5000
• Dell Optiplex SX280, GX280, and GX620

I agree, except for the BTX example. I think BTX is being adopted (gradually) by the mainstream. We can't just expect them to drop all of their proven, mature ATX designs right away for newly designed BTX cases. For mainstream BTX that's already been released, see:

• Gateway 9000 series
• IBM ThinkCentre A51p
• Shuttle i Series
• Dell Dimension 9100 and 5000
• Dell Optiplex SX280, GX280, and GX620

I agree, except for the BTX example. I think BTX is being adopted (gradually) by the mainstream. We can't just expect them to drop all of their proven, mature ATX designs right away for newly designed BTX cases. For mainstream BTX that's already been released, see:

• Gateway 9000 series
• IBM ThinkCentre A51p
• Shuttle i Series
• Dell Dimension 9100 and 5000
• Dell Optiplex SX280, GX280, and GX620

Intel needs somebody to really show off their cutting edge stuff...which no normal PC maker will do.

Huh? What do you think the Dell XPS is? Or Alienware, for that matter?

Besides, unless Apple is planning to start updating their product line a lot faster than they currently do, their high end machines are going to fall behind pretty quickly in the fast paced PC world.

Obviously not all of the software is shared, but nearly all of the network server software is and that's where it's the most important because that's where you have the most exposure.

keyword "FreeBSD" --> Found: 76 Secunia Security Advisories, displaying 1-25 keyword "Linux" --> Found: 3264 Secunia Security Advisories, displaying 1-25 ... outchie...

Of course, you wouldn't want to weed out all of the duplicates from different distributions putting out seperate advisories, now would you? And AFAIK FreeBSD doesn't put out advisories for things in ports, do they?

Wow and look at that, according to Secunia Debian hasn't had a security advisory since 2003!

$ make search key=adaptec Port: aaccli-1.0 Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/aaccli Info: Adaptec SCSI RAID administration tool Maint: bms@FreeBSD.org B-deps: R-deps: WWW: http://support.dell.com/ [dell.com] Port: asr-utils-3.04 Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/asr-utils Info: Adaptec ASR RAID Management Software Maint: obrien@FreeBSD.org B-deps: compat4x-i386-5.3 expat-1.95.8 fontconfig-2.2.3,1 freetype2-2.1.9 pkgconfig-0.15.0_1 xorg-libraries-6.8.2 R-deps: compat4x-i386-5.3 expat-1.95.8 fontconfig-2.2.3,1 freetype2-2.1.9 pkgconfig-0.15.0_1 xorg-libraries-6.8.2 WWW:

So? What about Oracle support? Or Fiber channel adapters? Is Secure Path supported?

You've been looking at the wrong benchmarks. Linux only recently beated FreeBSD on benchmarks, by very few points, stable kernel vs development FreeBSD version.

Which benchmarks are you talking about?

Of course you don't see the point. Now try to run mandriva-specific stuff on 3 more distributions and you'll see why it's good to have a centered, working environment instead of 500 distros that consist on the linux kernel + 300 apps thrown in. As you said, software for FreeBSD works on FreeBSD. But you can't say the same on linux. What with every distro having its own directories, lib versions, and so on, it's kind of impossible to pack one software piece for the X different versions of the same kernel . Enlightened now ?

There's nothing to be enlightenend about, you run Mandriva packages because you want to run what they've packaged and support. You wouldn't install a NetBSD package on FreeBSD and then complain because it didn't work, right? And if for some reason you really don't want to run the Mandriva package you can compile it yourself, there's nothing stopping you from doing that.

Your broad knowledge seems to know only web and mailservers. Sorry to disappoint you, there is lots of software for other server applications around. And I'd rather run them on any BSD than on Linux.

But why? The performance difference isn't large either way. Security is equal if you know what you're doing. The only thing you get by choosing FreeBSD is a shitty package management system and no official support.

I'm giving you a single example out of many I could think of right now.. who had preemption first, who is copying it now ?

FreeBSD 5.0 was released in 2003, I see Linux kernel premption work going on in 2001 with a quick google search. And AFAIK FreeBSD 5.x still has many places where the GIANT lock is used which kills preemption.

ah, another. Who had the port systems, who tried to copy it to linux ? *cof*gentoo*cof*

Just because someone copied it, doesn't mean it's good. Portage, and Gentoo in general IMO, is crap and the ports tree in FreeBSD is only slightly better.

"It looks like FreeBSD just tries to follow Linux, ie. make something that tries to do a bit everything without any focus."

FreeBSD is older than Linux.

"The software is the same. Running Gnome, KDE, Firefox or Emacs on FreeBSD or on Linux doesn't change anything, it's the same source code.

The common userland apps are the same. There are minor differences like "cp -a" that doesn't work on FreeBSD, but it doesn't really make any difference, the same things can be done the same way."

What's the point in running Linux ?

"So what? Stability? Well... my vanilla Ubuntu workstation never crashed so far. Gnome sometimes did odd things, but it's Gnome, the same odd things would happen on any operating system, running it on FreeBSD won't magically fix these bugs. So what would it change to run a FreeBSD kernel instead of a Linux kernel? Looking at the FreeBSD mailing-lists, I see people who are experiencing kernel panics, hangs, corruption and other badness. Just like on Linux mailing-lists, or just like on any operating system mailing-list in fact."

FreeBSD is faster on the desktop. FreeBSD can run linux apps faster than native Linux. Let's talk about servers. What's the difference between using the two different kernels? avoid being killed with fork(), not being owned 5 types by different coding errors on the same function, not having a root exploit on the kernel every month. That's the difference.

"Security? Looking at bugtraq, when a vulnerability is found in Unix software, it usually affects every operating system, FreeBSD is never an exception."

Really? Tell me how FreeBSD would be vulnerable to a bad implementation of linux's passwd, for example.

"Linux has some things to mitigate exploitation of these vulnerabilities like SELinux and grsecurity. I don't see anything similar in FreeBSD."

Have you looked at -CURRENT ?

"Linux has kernel vulnerabilities that allow root compromises. FreeBSD has the same weakness. Looking at bugtraq archives from 2003 to 2005, there have been even more kernel vulnerabilities (at least disclosed ones, and posted on bugtraq) in FreeBSD that in any other operating system and some were even remotely exploitable through the tcp/ip stack."

keyword "FreeBSD" -->
Found: 76 Secunia Security Advisories, displaying 1-25

keyword "Linux" -->
Found: 3264 Secunia Security Advisories, displaying 1-25 ...
outchie...

Sorry, again you're confusing. It was linux that was crasheable by bugs on the firewall they use.

"Another thing is that FreeBSD has almost no commercial support. Hardware vendors (like storage arrays) and closed-source software vendors usually support a few Linux distributions like RHES and Novell, but not much. And definitely not BSD. Well, sometimes, but it's rare compared to Linux."

$ make search key=adaptec
Port: aaccli-1.0
Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/aaccli
Info: Adaptec SCSI RAID administration tool
Maint: bms@FreeBSD.org
B-deps:
R-deps:
WWW: http://support.dell.com/

Port: asr-utils-3.04
Path: /usr/ports/sysutils/asr-utils
Info: Adaptec ASR RAID Management Software
Maint: obrien@FreeBSD.org
B-deps: compat4x-i386-5.3 expat-1.95.8 fontconfig-2.2.3,1 freetype2-2.1.9 pkgconfig-0.15.0_1 xorg-libraries-6.8.2
R-deps: compat4x-i386-5.3 expat-1.95.8 fontconfig-2.2.3,1 freetype2-2.1.9 pkgconfig-0.15.0_1 xorg-libraries-6.8.2
WWW:

in my country we say: 'I ask for forgiveness and leave.'

"So what? Performance? Everytime I've seen a FreeBSD vs Linux benchmark, Linux 2.6 was faster. Sometimes not a lot, but never slower. Except a special case of routing packets using a specific framework. But not in common cases like running Apache/MySQL/PHP or on a workstation."

You've been looking at the wrong benchmarks. Linux only recently beated FreeBSD on benchmarks, by very few points, stable kernel vs d

According to the MacNN coverage of the keynote a Pentium 4 development machine will be available in two weeks. Also announced are Pentium III (or "m" in marketing English) based notebooks. These need a differend chipsets. Also OS X has been running on x86 forever, even before apple had much reason to look into x86. (We knew, Darwin, but still)

To me this doesn`t sound like apple has its own special chipset. It doesn`t even sound like they have much in the way of apple specific non "IBM compatible" firmware. It wouldn`t matter that much as Darwin boots fine from a plain old PC bios. As Darwin is open source it could be made to boot pretty much anyware (Ice cream for the first person to port it to the x-box 360 ;-)).

Without a chipset to set the x86 Mac apart from its "IBM compatible" cousin and only minor differences in the firmware (it still has to initialize the same (Intel?) chipset) what is the difference? Especially if you build a PC with the same processor, chipset, disk controller, graphics and sound?

So if, and this is the big if, (pre-???)installing OS X comes in the reach of the corner computer shop then we have a platform with:

• Cheap x86 machines
• "Walk into store, have fixed, walk out" support
• Every major productivity application in use today (ms office,adobe)
• Better security than on windows running ie/outbreak, or at least that perception.
• A user interface that is at least equal to the other desktop competitors.
• documentation, and word of mouth/relative/coworker support that beats Unix-alikes.
• Support for most things you find on a network.(kerberos,ldap,cifs,NFS,imap,most websites)
• The support of geeks everywhere happy with new chances to replace stuff with tiny shell scripts
• a possibility for wine on os x, meaning buy one os, get the second one for free. This may be enough for a couple of those business specific windows only apps
• big players more and more free to ship the OS they like without getting on bill`s shitlist.
• microsoft opening up the office file formats potentially giving away their other cash cow.

Apple could

• Sue? Doesn`t seem likely if you stay within the apple public licence when messing with Darwin and buy the rest.
• Ignore, seams likely
• Embrace, more likely then you might think! Where did all those crazy BeOS people go? They already tried the head on attack on windows and their motto was that getting a new OS is a smart thing to do once every decade... Also NeXT really was intended as "the next standard desktop os" and many people working on os x might still think of their baby that way. They might for example help out people working on drivers. Afterall more drivers means more hardware options for Apple to consider for their next Mac.

Ofcourse without pure windows dominance microsoft loses a lot. Even if they keep office microsoft would be left with

• the x-box 360 (seems IBM will have less supply problems and with ppc microsoft may have found a way to keep the machines cost down)
• file and user authentication servers everywhere (keep them, os x doesn`t care and samba 4.0 is moving in)
• exchange (which the people I know would rather get rid of)
• sql server (get your linux or os x copy at sybase.com, that is if you dont like opstgresql or mysql)
• windows CE (which the mobile phone people wont do because they have plenty of problems without inviting microsoft into their market)
• Lots of worthless patents (Remember the "no patent experiance required" jobs? Anyway there will be a european showdown soon)

see for yourself. ha ha.

for one was looking forward to the G5 64 bit on a portable machine (a powerbook or even ibook) in the near future. I have been doing some intital development with Linux distributions on a AMD64 system and most recently with a PowerMac G5 and have been impressed with the results so far. It looks like this announcement of using Intel chipsets

"Announcement"? Did I miss something? Where's the press release on the Apple Web site for this announcement? (If Apple haven't announced it, it's only an "announcement" to the extent that C|Net are "announcing" that they have what they're claiming is a reason to believe Apple will announce this.)

will kill this option and leave Apple with 32 bit chipsets for their laptop line for at least the next 2 or 3 years.

Presumably by "32 bit chipsets" you're indicating that the support chips for the 64-bit Pentium 4's from Intel aren't fully 64-bit, because you can buy 64-bit Intel x86 boxes from Dell, so it's not as if you can't get 64-bit x86's from Intel.

At Dell we offer a free recycling service for every computer we sell nationwide. It is already factored into the price.

Dell Recycling

which means that LCDs will have to become a little cheaper before there is a real threat to CRTs. But obviously this is the actual problem and not the refresh rate or resolution or colour depth.

However I remember well enough buying a 21" Viewsonic 810P with maximum resolution of 1600x1200 only 6 years ago for about 1600CAD. Today a used one goes for 200CAD.

Was that reasonably priced? For high quality equipment you always have to pay high dollars. My new Latitude D810 with 15.4 inch UltraSharp(TM) Wide Screen WUXGA LCD Panel, and all top upgrades (2Gig RAM, 2.13 Centrino CPU, RW DVD/RW CD, 100GB hard drive etc.) cost me 4000 before the lease interest (or 180CAD a month for the next 2 years.) But I need it for work, so it is a worthy upgrade from my old VAIO.

My point is it was always the case that for better equipment you had to pay more. However all it takes is to drop the LCD prices a little more and then CRTs will no longer be desirable for most people.

Yes, I do. Just check out the link on the website!

http://www.stereographics.com/support/st-mon.htm

Let's see - Compaq, Mitsu, Sony, IBM, Viewsonic, etc.

Here's a Dell monitor that meets the requirement for 110-120Hz refresh:

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/ProductDetail.a spx?TabPage=techspecs&sku=320-3616&spagenum=&categ ory_id=103&brandid=&k=&c=us&l=en&cs=04&mnf=&prst=& prEnd=&mnfsku=&orderby=&searchtype=&pageb4search=& page=productlisting.aspx&instock=&refurbished=

So it seems that I did read the question -- maybe you didn't?

> This program requires high resolution high frequency true color CRTs

So exactly the monitors I suggested in my post are the ones listed on the company's website and/or recommended by the company.

Maybe you should do a little bit of research before you start running your mouth, moron.

Running Linux has nothing to do with being anti-Windows. Running Linux on a server has everything to do with the perception that it's the best tool for a particular job. Zealotry has *zero* place in purchases.

That "schmuck" might purchase from a Windows-only vendor because of a huge installed base from that vendor making deep discounts possible and thus ends up being the cheapest solution, even if you factor in the phantom $800 for a wasted Windows license.

BTW -- Dell ships servers with Linux. Their enterprise offerings are also very far from "low end".

12" screen, 4.1 lb, starts at $950

full desktop pc with lcd monitor, keyboard, mouse, dual layer dvd burner, 80gb hd, 512mb ram, 2.66ghz p4, speakers and windows xp for $529.

enjoy.

the mini also has no audio input.

what's top stop them from using integrated nvidia? that's light years faster than the POS ati 9600 in the mini.

and i _have_ a mini. this thing is _not_ fast.

why does it have to be $249 out the door? the mini's lowest end is $499.

they could easily do a $499 x86 mini pc with all the trimmings _and_ a copy of windows xp. hell you can get a full desktop pc with lcd monitor, keyboard, mouse, dual layer dvd burner, 80gb hd, 512mb ram, 2.66ghz p4, speakers and windows xp for $529.

it's not much of a stretch to say a wintel pc could easily be competetive on every hardware point.

Uh-huh
Sure. (Not technically without an OS, but a floppy in the carton with FreeDOS is about as OS-free as you can get)
Whatever you say.

Not true at all for example

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.a spx/desktops_n?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

Its done, But they give you such limited choices

That's a cool looking rig, but it lists at about $850 (Australian, like $700 US) with no CPU, RAM, or drives.

Here is a Dell PowerEdge 750 1U server with a P4 2.8GHz HyperThreaded, 256M and an 80G SATA (with room to add another drive and up to 4G of memory) for $499 shipped to your door. Yea, I'm a Dell fanboy, but even if I wasn't I would still see a pretty good price point in that box.

Note that this specific box is pretty low end and could use some upgrades, but it is a complete machine ready to run, esp if you want to go on the cheap.