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Got Spyware? Throw out the Computer!
geeber writes "The New York Times (reg. required) has an article about a new response to spyware - throw out the computer and buy a new one. The notion is new computers can be had for $400 so it's a cost effective and 'rational response.'" From the article: "While no figures are available on the ranks of those jettisoning their PC's, the scourge of unwanted software is widely felt. This month the Pew group published a study in which 43 percent of the 2,001 adult Internet users polled said they had been confronted with spyware or adware, collectively known as malware. Forty-eight percent said they had stopped visiting Web sites that might deposit unwanted programs on their PC's.
Moreover, 68 percent said they had had computer trouble in the last year consistent with the problems caused by spyware or adware, though 60 percent of those were unsure of the problems' origins. Twenty percent of those who tried to fix the problem said it had not been solved; among those who spent money seeking a remedy, the average outlay was $129."
Surely you could at least just reformat the harddrive?
Throwing out the whole PC seems a bit excessive..
Curiosity was framed. Ignorance killed the cat.
Why don't they reformat rather than buy a new PC? It does the same thing and costs much, much less..
If you are not very tech savvy, and if you have an older box, and you have to lug it to a pc repair type place, or hire someone to clean it up, it is probably cheaper to buy a new one. ( just give it to me) /fp?
Yeah... then your $400 new computer is going to get infected, are you going to throw it out and buy yet another? Average Joes don't want to run Linux, because their programs won't run on it (if they even know about Linux in the first place, chances are, they don't). Mac Minis don't count, because they're over $400. Hence, whoever wrote TFA could use an extra helping of logic.
Of course! Genius! Throw out the computer!
Rinse, lather and repeat as soon as the new computer is infected.
Intel/Dell/etc must love this advice.
I knew the hardware companies were installing windows for a reason, repeat sales.
...that once you throw out that old PC, remember to replace it with a Macintosh. Problem solved.
Reminder: Apple owns 1/255th of the internet.
How's replacing the computer more rational than reinstalling the OS? Sure, it'll take a bit of time, but so will buying a new PC. A lot cheaper than $400, too...
While you're at it, if you ever have car problems, just chuck the damn thing and buy a new one! Cars are so cheap nowadays, it's more cost-efficient to buy a new car than to fix your current one, what with car virii and over-priced, shitty mechanics and whatnot.
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
Please buy another computer, or else I can't meet my self-imposed deadline to buy a couple of countries by 2007.
Love,
Bill
$129 == the retail price for Tiger...
Of course, when you throw out the PC, you then have to purchase a new copy of the operating system. In 99% of cases this is Windows. So you reduce the incentive for Microsoft to fix the spyware problem; in fact, you reward them for not fixing it! Quite brilliant! In fairness to Microsoft, Windows now does have a pretty good resistance to spyware, IF you run as user. The problem is that most people don't know what this means, how to do it, or anything of the sort. Education is the only solution. Note that I declined to make a "??? PROFIT!" joke in this post.
apterous.org
what about the time spent reinstalling everything, saving your stuff and then restoring it, etc?
...add a bit more for adware/anti-virus software, or you will be "needing to" buy another (if you threw out a computer every time it got infected)?
format C:
or they can give me their old PCs and indeed buy a new one-- I need some server boxes anyway.
They can afford 400 dollars every time they get a spyware? That's like 1200 dollars a day!
Lazy/stupid people driving the IT economy ...
That's an excessively wasteful attitude to take. There are several far cheaper, even free, methods of ensuring spyware doesn't end up your machine. It's mostly safe browsing and common sense in how you manage files sent to you by e-mail and instant messenger. Beyond safe browing and caution, all you need is a good anti-virus program and a firewall - and all of these measures are far cheaper to implement than spending "$400 on a new machine."
I am opening up a dumpster in every city exclusively for people who want to discard spyware infected computers. Whats more the service is free!
This article has been provided to you courtesty of Dell, Apple, and HP
Still crawling to use a computer. Computers will soon look like fucking game consoles or TVs... people juste aren't into customization and advanced features. Sad but true. Technology has advanced to a point where average human intelligence begins to fail to keep up. -- moded -1 for despise ?
\u262D = \u5350
Cousin did the exact same thing.
Dumped an old computer and bought a $1800 one with a LCD screen. Blamed it on the 'oldness' I guess. Couple weeks later, still have to return it to the manufacturer to get it fixed.
Stop using IE and switch to Firefox.
This is not the sig you are looking for...
If you're going to throw it out, why not make the switch. You've got two problems on your hands the minute you bring that new PC home from BestBuy. Windows, and Internet Explorer. Get rid of them both and use OS X and either Safari or Firefox.
I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
Don't tell anybody! I'm counting on this new idea to cause a glut in the market of used PC's. I can pick them up real cheap for extra Linux boxen.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
Then, before you can download the service packs for the new machine, it will be compromised (12 minutes on the net now?)
So, I believe the correct solution is to buy a new machine every 12 minutes. Genius I tell you!
Oh come on, do you write press releases too?
Who throws out a $400 newish computer?
Every decent computer these days has a "restore disc" which essentially reformat the PC.
So why would someone "throw it out"?!
And frankly, if you're spending $400 on a PC, the GPU is not going to be able to run many cutting-edge games anyway. So it's hard to see what a MacMini couldn't do for the average home user that a $400 POS Wintel box could...
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
the spyware that might already be included on the new computer? After all, Dell tech support isn't allowed to tell you how to remove it, right? Are there any other companies following this rule too?
Mr. Tucker, an Internet industry executive who holds a Ph.D. in computer science, decided that rather than take the time to remove the offending software, he would spend $400 on a new machine. (emphasis added)
It seems to me like this guy probably got his PHD some time ago and is trying to reinstall with VMS and failing or he's really busy. If you're an executive, sure, you can afford a new computer every month when yours gets screwed up. But for normal folks, wouldn't it be easier to pay the kid down the block $50 to reinstall windows for you?
I think so. Of course, I was that kid.
Which do you think has a better TCO.
At $400/minute, I think even BillG would consider windows expensive.
I keep all my Windows installers archived in a respository, and repartition/reinstall periodically as an "end run" against viruses. I restore my data from backups. I wish config data, which can be infected (like the Registry) could be easily separated from "content data" - and I wish all my data were in a SQL database, so I could easily restore only the less-vulnerable content data, or at least review config data separately before restoring.
Linux could have an even better system than this. I'd like a list of my installed apps, with their data directories and configs. If possible, all in a SQL database, or at least all the pointers in such a database. So I could periodically repartition/reinstall/restore my apps and data, automatically, like in an overnight cronjob. Then my install could be that much safer from bitrot.
--
make install -not war
It is illegal to produce software that is targeted to spread illegal content. How come it is not illegal for companies to make software that damages my computer?
My karma ran over your dogma
...how many continued their stupid practices, so they were instantly reinfected? I've seen people reinstall the exact same crapware after a clean-up, because that was stuff they "wanted". With that kind of model, your new machine will be infected instantly.
Besides, hardware is only a tiny fraction of it. Transferring all data, installing all programs and configuring everything to the way you are used to, that is what takes time. Even with a pre-installed Windows, people want all their various gadgets (one driver CD each, which they can't find), e-mail, bookmarks etc.
The only upside of that is that your old computer can serve as your back-up until you transfer it to the new one. Helluva expensive way to buy back-up on, though.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
The whole reason why they would throw out the computer is because the 'cost' of 'fixing' it is higher than the cost of a new one. Some computer repair places work like car mechanic joints. A basic diagnostic takes $25, plus whatever else they might do in addition to the $50 or so hourly labour rate. Depending on what they think the problem is and how much time it takes them to reinstall all the software, and fix the drivers, it might as well exceed the cost of a basic celeron ECS computer with 256MB ram and 40gig harddisk.
Of course a 'factory restore' CD will be far simpler if it didnt ask too many questions, and simply reimaged the partition.
Makes me think if a company can sell 'fix your computer' windows install CDs which will simply format and reinstall windows and come with the largest driver collection to avoid issues.
Also if a knoppix CD would just install itself onto the harddisk and boot the disk without questions ( to run much faster), that would solve the problem.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
If you don't know how to clean your computer and it's cheaper to throw it away, please find some charity or way to make your computer available to those that can't even afford one.
Probably their new owner will be willing to do the cleaning job or won't have internet connection to make spyware such a 'big' problem.
EOF
throw out the pc and buy a mac maybe but throw out the pc and buy annother cheap POS pc thats just stupidity. if you go out and buy a car and acid rain eats all the paint off and your car falls apart do you go and buy the exact same one? hell no you go buy an acid rain proof car.
Gas prices too expensive? Turns out that when your car runs of gas, it's more cost effective to simply trash your current car and buy a new one. Dealers will commonly give you the car with a full tank of gas.
Don't throw them out. Donate them to any of the number of PC refurbishment and training charities that you'll find. They can always use good gear.
Well, now I know where I'm going to get my next PC... the curb!
I'm going to pick up every junked-by-idiots PC I find and reformat them, and implement some basic protections, and then sell them back to the idiots' neighbors.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
If you're too incompetant to fix a PC, at least give it to a charity (or to me) where some use might be made of it.
Not sure which pages the person in the article has surfed. But somehow I suspect average page isn't The Economist, New York Times or Slashdot.
I don't doubt that getting spyware, viruses and malware wouldn't be easy, still to get computer full of them, suggests that person in question either was a Warez King or had a special needs that made the left hand mouse essential.....
Nobody knows the trouble I've seen, nobody knows has the trouble seen me, even I sometimes wonder why I write these line
Get a Linux system at the local Walmart, and never worry about it again.
"God of Rock, thank you for this chance to kick ass. "
The best solution I have ever seen is a tech walks into your office with a CD, Ctrl-Alt-Delete - boot to CD-ROM, enters your user ID and walks away saying keep the CD for next time you infect your machine. It boots from the CD re-installing the entire system.
Users hate it as they store stuff on the local drive but soon learn corporate no-tolerance policy for keeping critical data on the local drive and loading unapproved often unlicensed software. The raw fact still remains, 90% of the corporate spyware issues can be tracked back to the users (mis)behavior.
Tossing out the computer prematurely has several disadvantages, the logistics of disposal, acquisition and software licensing. It is unlikely replacing the system with the same Windows operating system is going to change much. Mind you if the replacement was a locked down system where the user could not load software.... That would have some obvious benefits.
$400 for a new PC just to get rid of spyware?!?
And I thought the NYT just lived in a parallel world when it came to Republicans and the war in Iraq.
New York Times: All the News that is Fit ZFor Democrats
... or try Adam Wenner's "Free (and 99.9% foolproof) way of ridding your computer of spyware, adware, malware in general, and viruses". http://killspyware.shorturl.com/ It works.
Thoughts on the Emergence of Computing Intelligence
Throw out the computer?
What do they think will happen to the next computer? Be magically immune?
Go to distrowatch and for a couple of bucks, order a linux cd of some flavor^_^ Cheaper and it will get rid of all your spyware and malware. Even the MS branded stuff! Something that ad-aware and spybot refuse to detect and correct for some reason^^
Or go with Knoppix and have a decent boot-up cd so you can start up your computer and see what's wrong with it.
Seriously, as if anyone were to buy a computer just because of spyware. You might as well just save your files and do a clean install if you wanted to keep running Windows. And then just run the free AVG virus scanner on those old files.
I need to upgrade my linux firewall - a quick reformat and Novell linux install will solve that problem for good. Heck, the PC they are tossing out is probably more powerful than my server.
My rights don't need management.
... in most cases the PCs we're talking about are not that old. Yeah, if you're running some old Win98 PC, this does make sense. But if you're running an XP machine that's reasonably fast, and just not updating it or not protecting yourself, replacing the machine is nothing but a temporary fix. I've seen people wipe their PCs clean only to find, 6 months later, their computers were in the very same position.
Replacing your computer might make Michael Dell happy, but it often isn't a solution; it just makes you feel better for a little bit. The reality is that in today's world, users need to either get with the program in terms of securing their computer, or buy a computer/OS that offers better security out of the box. (Mac or Linux)
But that's a bitter medicine to take, so people are trying to find ways around taking the medicine. Good luck to them. What I'd be interested in seeing is the follow up to this 1-2 years from now to see if this approach "worked" in the long term for them. I bet within two years they'll ditch their PCs or move to something else out of pure frustration.
Just pay $50 to somebody that can fix the computer (f.e. a geek). I think $50 will do it if you are too dumb to install AV ans AS scaners.
So, if it takes 12 minutes for a system to get infected, how much money do you spend at the end of the week in new systems?
Thow out your Windows PC, buy a Mac Mini for 499 (or go get your applicable discount)... make my stock go up. Support Steve Jobs!!
There's not alot... maybe some shit talking,e tc.... and writing spyware/malware.
It's the most craptastically lowbrow malicious deceitful business model that really F's alot of people. I have so many friends that are just destroyed by this crap. Serious financial damage.
So yeah, I'd deck a punk for it.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
Leaky faucet? Throw out your house!
Really,...it's worth it!
...would be quite comfortable with reformatting.
Oh, and he appears to be an exec at Sun. Maybe he's one of those academics who just doesn't know his way around a computer, no matter what his education is.
Yeah, when her winxp computer got sogged up with spyware, after weeks of attempts to clean it up, she got rid of it and bought another computer;
A Mac.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Although a ridiculous idea, this reminds me of what a lot of people I know do with printers. Buy one, when the ink runs out trash it and buy another. Cheaper than the ink cartridges. Everyone knows this is by design from the printer manufacturers but it makes me wonder - have they thought about the environmental consequences?
I build up truckloads of computer parts and take them in to be properly recycled once a year. Somehow I doubt most people do this.
This means more people buying Mac Minis, and more free year-old computers for the Linux community to develop, test, and play on. Bring on the competition for the two best alternatives to Microsoft's hegemony.
Just face it, the average user is going to keep using Windows, IE, and keep getting spyware.
The cost of getting spyware removed is one thing at around $129 but the real "cost" is having to leave the PC to be repaired and going without. Perhaps a great business model would be to just let lusers "trade in" their infected PC for another PC at, say, $129 or even more if you can get them to upgrade to better LCD monitor or other accessories.
Then the infected PC can get cleaned and resold to someone else with an infected machine. Maybe even the original owner.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." - Shepard Book Quoting Malcolm Reynolds
How can you say it is rational when according to the prices you provided it costs one third to clean up the PC as opposed to getting a new one? Sounds plenty irrational to me. Anyway, $129 sounds like a lot, if I was to charge that much maybe my friends and family would finally start listening to my advice on using Firefox, getting news windows updates and stop browsing for pr0n.
Flat tyre? Set the car on fire!
...and many more cost-effective solutions to everyday problems. Here at Goatse(R), We're happy to help.
Wallpaper coming off at pieces? Time to move!
Your kid started smoking? Give it up for adoption!
why would you throw out your computer just because it has spyware? Just reformat it, Or just switch to Firefox... Problem solved, but if you do go buy a new one, I'd happily take your old one :-)
- Shrödinger's Cat is Dead, Or is it?
....were not technology retarded, cared about their computer, had a running and well set up firewall, an alternative to IE web browser. Strangely, they have never ever confronted malware on their own machine before.
1. No sig. 2. ???? 3. Profit!!!
If all the old gummers who can't even operate a type writer are going to accuse us of being a throw away society, we might as well live up to that reputation.
I think a good solution for these folks is to sell them this bundle:
1. A CD that boots and automatically formats your hard drive.
2. A Knoppix CD.
Tell them to put the first CD in once. Afterwards just boot off the 2nd CD. Modify Knoppix so that it will save all your personal files to the now formatted hard drive and would only start programs off the Knoppix CD.
Market the bundle for $15.
Profit!
EvilCON - Made Famous by
(1) Where do these...um, wary consumers live?
and
(2) Do they secure the lids to their dumpsters?
I call dibs.
-----------
One man's trash is another man's server...
Do the following and spend 30 bucks:
1. Use Opera or Firefox [Free]
2. Use ZoneAlarm [Free]
3. Use AVG antivirus [Free]
4. Pay 30 quid for Webroots Spysweeper.
I've still to see a worm/virus on my PC, or those of my family. Plus, anyone who spots the US$400 Dell in the real world, please give me a gingle will ya?
As I said, I don't repeat myself.
You will have to:
Any one of these costs can be enough to drive the "fix vs buy" decision.
Seastead this.
I picked up a decent Compaq Desktop for $5 today at a garage sale, the woman said it 'was running slow' It came with the system restore disk, never opened.
Dell has a restore function that is as simple as inserting a recovery CD.
An image of the OS, stored on the HD, brings the computer back to where it was when you first bought it.
Too bad, AOL and Symantec viruses pervade Dell boxes.
Otherwise, its a great solution.
In the future, I'm sure we'll see more systems with restore functions that are as simple as pressing a button.
Having a "pro" clean up your PC can run $50-$100 or more, depending on where you go.
Buying a new one is $400 today, but may be well under $100 in 10 years.
Unfortunately, restoring your data and settings may still take time, and that must be factored into the equation.
A few years ago I had a broken VCR. Hardware problem. Cost to fix: more than $50. Cost to replace: Less. Guess which I did?
What I see coming in a few years when there's a market demand:
Brand-name bootable CDs that auto-download the latest "fix tools" and fix your drive in place, removing or disabling spyware, viruses, and other unwanted programs. Symantec already has this sort-of with it's bootable CDs, and Linux rescue CDs also have this sort-of. Boot floppies of old did the same thing.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
throw out the computer and buy a new one.
Or how about simply developing a market for "refurbishing" computers damaged by spyware?
A computer can get corrupted by spyware in a matter of days after it's purchased. It seems inconceivable that throwing it away would be more cost-effective than dropping it off at a neighborhood refurbishing center for a $50 fee. You can easily teach a high school kid how to wipe a disk, and re-install XP plus anti-crapware. It would be a great after-school job.
What if that doesn't work, you ask? Sell your house!
It's obviously why you're getting spyware! Your house is infected! While you're at it, burn all your posessions and detox your family! Those pesky bugs stop at nothing!
nothing.can.stop.me.now
I recall people being charged anywhere from 100 to 300 bucks for the bench time. Sometimes more when any of our techs (or a whole team) had to go remove a virus or the like from an entire network. Oh the joys of overcharging people because they couldn't be bothered to learn to use Linux or BSD.
All they wanted to do was download files, read websites, read email, watch dvds, perhaps listen to MP3's or a CD or play solitaire at the office, etc... stuff we as geeks, take as trivial.
They needed to compose documents or spreadsheets or use trivial financial software without paying hundreds for quickbooks, peachtree or microsoft's "great pains accounting". (which isn't even Microsoft's own "innovation" as I recall).
I can do all of these things on the measly 450 mhz PII sitting in the corner. And it never gets spyware. But it runs Linux, and my semi computer illiterate father uses it more than I ever will. (its faster than their WinXP Home Emachines with double the ram and 4 times the HD space and processing cycles.) And it never gets spyware or cries that they need to buy a new version of this or that to keep the system clean. Oh... and it cost me... well... nothing. It was built from leftovers from my 1990's college 'puter.
" What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
Or switch to any other operating system (e.g. Mac or Linux) and not have to deal with any of that to begin with!
Honestly, I can't understand why people think using Windows is okay just because it's possible to "fix" it. It shouldn't be broken in the first place!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Before the subject gets taken out of context, let me explain. Reading the article, almost all the examples given are "my 4 year old Dell" or "my 4 year old HP." Four whole years ago, Windows ME was the most recent hunk of junk to come out of Redmond, so it wouldn't surprise me if all these repeat infections are occuring on Win9x systems. Also, machines of that era generally shipped with 64 or 128mb of RAM.
As long as the computers are running Win9x, they will undoubtedly become reinfected, as Microsoft will not update Internet Explorer with the same security level as it has with WinXP SP2. Thus, the only real way to ensure enough protection is to upgrade the operating system to the more secure XP. The upgrade itself costs on average $109, but it would run too slow to be usable on 64 or 128mb memory. So the memory should be upgraded as well, to a minimum of 256mb. At my shop, the labor to install everything would end up around $100. So you're looking at $300 to secure a 4 year old machine while maintaining usability. At that point, wouldn't it make more sense just to format the old machine, and use it as a dedicated word processor, and not let it touch the internet, while all Internet tasks are done on a new, faster, more secure system?
The article doesn't make it clear, but it seems the focus is those people still running on legacy hardware and software, accessing modern services online. Legacy software is far more easily infected than newer systems protected by an updated anti-virus and service pack 2. The article is not saying to throw out your 6 month old Dell and buy the same thing again, or even a 1 or 2 year old system.
Credentials: I've worked in a computer shop cleaning viruses and spyware for the past 4 years. Since the introduction of XP SP2, I've seen a dramatic decrease in repeat customers with re-infections once a machine is properly cleaned, updated, and patched. (With the exception of those who's kids download Kazaa as soon as they get the machine home, despite numerous warnings).
Soon citizens of the world will cede their computing power to Oblivion Corp. owing to the wanton programs my minions have distributed. I thought my purchasing department had finally indulged in too much of the Evil Weed of Strategerizing when they approached me with this plan. A dark day dawns, internet traveller.
#define CLUE 0
I swear i must be the only person that can use IE and not get all that crap. I bet its because i know not press the X button on a popup...Yeah i bet thats it. Oh and i dont go to a warez sites like an idiot.
I could do that to my girlfriend.. I wish..
I would recommend recovering your data and tossing the old computer if the cost of upgrading hardware was close to the cost of a new PC.
Doesn't it make sense to discard (toss, donate, install Linux, whatever...) if the cost of upgrading the software (Windows 98 to XP, new virus software, firewall, spyware remover, etc.) also approaches the cost of a new PC with alot of that pre-installed? And with new hardware included???
I'd deck a punk for it.
The script kiddies and the crooks who build zombie networks are morally equivalent to arsonists.
Microsoft is morally equivalent to a contractor who insists on building houses out of balsa wood and flash paper, while telling the lie that the next one won't be flammable at all.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
A direct result of what happens when a society develops a stigma against intelligence: "Ew... he's smart. That's so weird. He should just be stupid and look cute like the rest of us. What's wrong with him? It makes me soooo mad! Time for some therapeutic shopping with Daddy's credit card." As was noted before, the overwhelming inability of the general public to acquire even the most basic understanding of how the machines that run their lives actually work has served the IT industry well, but I hope to be dead in 50 years so as to avoid watching our country's downfall.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
So, what's wrong with fdisk again? Reformatting takes care of just about any software you might want to get rid of. It is kind of drastic, but not nearly so much as buying a new comp. If they really want to spend some money I suppose they could just get a new HD. That would take care of it too.
The days of the digital watch are numbered.
Unlike in the past where you had to run ad-aware, spy-bot, and a virus program there are other places to surf safely. http://www.download.com/ViewFour-com-ViewSmart/300 0-8022_4-10406154.html?tag=lst-0-8
This is a small program that not only blocks all of the spyware and adware, but warns you on the screen of the website before you go there if there is an attempted download (which is blocked).
To me, this is cheaper than throwing away a computer.
Computers often get infected by spyware very quickly. I have seen Windows XP SP2 computers which get infected within a few days. Paying someone $50 to remove the spyware isn't a bad idea. Thowing out your old computer every few days is...
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Granted, I expect you to ignore me since you profit from people not knowing about this option...
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I have a friend who's just given upon a laptop because it is so spyware ridden. But he also likes to show of his multi-gigabyte 'stolen' music collection.
So it seems to me that the people with a big spyware problem may be people who download crap indiscriminately off the web. If your music is coming from www.freemp3.ru then it seems you only have yourself to blame.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
It probably has been mentioned in the comments (more than once), but do you think most home users are aware that they even have the option of getting a mac mini and then using their monitor, keyboard, etc. for it?
All I see from Apple are iPod ads. =/
just throw 'em my way!
Hack your mind out of its sandbox.
Ah, but here's the flaw: you through away the computer every time you get infected, but if it takes all of twelve minutes for a Windows computer to get reinfected again, then you will simply throw out a computer every twelve minutes. As to my calculations, that's 43,680 computers a year at $400 a pop totalling $17,472,000. A bit excessive, huh? I believe the logic is inherrently flawed - a one-time purchase of some preventative/protection software for 1/4th the cost of a machine will prevent infection (at least partially) and will keep from having to buy some 40,000 computers a year (if we followed the lame logic of the article). My comment sounds ridiculous, right? Yeah, so does the logic in the article. --------- AND NOW, the worst editing ever... SLASHDOT.ORG! Where editors don't even bother to read their postings first! Also, they don't know how to write!
"Support Bacteria - Its the only culture some people have" - Circa 1985
of Intel, AMD, and other computer manufactors? Last time mal-ware got into my system, it was bad, but it was just that; software. And software can be formatted, and wiped off a harddrive. Even boot sector viruses can have that, with the right software.
Unlike a lot of folks, I don't have $400 to toss away on a new piece of equipment everytime their overpaid CEOs need a new gold plated toilet seat. (Why I don't buy IPODs, and PDAs with hard-wired batteries in them.)
Hey, if anyone wants to do this, I'll be more than happy to take their infested computer. I'm sure a school, or even me, would apprecate free equipment.
Kevin
kcredden@kevinredden.name
After reading TFA, this is not the first time that I have heard about average users doing exactly this.
Some non-technical Windows users simply do not know how remove malware from thier computers. It really doesn't matter what tools you recommend and install for them.
Until they spend some time and READ about basic security and administration, this problem will continue to thrive in the Windows environment.
Case in point: My sister.. she has a Athlon 1gig biege box that I put together for her a couple of years ago for Christmas. I recently upgraded it for her, another drive, more memory, DVD-R/RW.
Because of her recent experience with malware, she wanted to toss the whole box and get another one. I told her about Firefox, I installed free tools like Ad-Aware and AVG anti-virus. I also setup Ubuntu Linux on the new hard drive so that she may dual boot. I recently went over and logged onto her computer (Win) and all types of malware existed.
The problem is basically this: She doesnt use the tools, she is too lazy to log-off and use the Linux solution, and she just doesnt care about security.
I just wish that people that throw this computers away send them my way, these discarded boxes make great servers or I usually just remove Windows and setup Linux and give them away to people without computers.
and this is why people wonder why I get upset when they go "huh, what's a firewall?"
I've got so sick of people going "but my computer doesn't work any more, help me fix it", I've started to outright ignore/block/plot to murder anyone who refuses to run Zonealarm and adware/spybot.
It's just a shame we make so much money from this so we'd be better off not fixing it.
I like muppets.
People buy new PCs not necessarily because they have spyware or spam bots - many would not realise it. They just find their PC is slow so they think they need a new, faster one.
Even if they knew they had spyware, they would not have a clue how to remove it anyway. They might "rationalise" a new PC with arguments about the cost of their time, but that is just a comfort factor thrown in. Maybe they fancied a new PC and this is an excuse to the wife.
I once worked in a research lab. One day someone building electronics dropped a resistor on the floor. Four of us, professional engineers, then spent the next hour debating whether or not it was cost effective for one of us to spend 5 seconds picking it up. I argued that it would take just almost as long to reach for a new one from the rack. I don't remember if it was picked up in the end.
Such debates are sterile - in the end you argue yourself into never doing anything.
Buy your next computer from a supplier that offers you a choice other than Microsoft otherwise you will just have more of the same.
People won't get rid of their old Win9X machines? Make them buy new ones with the newest version of Windows, thus making more $$$ for Microsoft.
The parent post declined to do the profit joke, but I'll step up to the plate:
1. Release buggy browser and refuse to update it u
2. People have to buy new OS
3. Profit!!!
As of late last year, Dell no longer includes MS cds. They include a recovery partition. If the virus or whatnot deletes files from there... you are sure proper fucked.
Just to let you know.
" What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
It is illegal to produce software that is targeted to spread copyrighted content. How come it is not illegal for companies to make software that damages my computer?
My karma ran over your dogma
until your new box is compromised.
Or, like I've been saying for years, "Get A Macintosh"
In this day and age of lowered expectations, maybe Apple should change their slogan to "Doesn't Suck!"
Start Running Better Polls
Spyware is given by browsing sites or trojan / downloading virus type programs.
However, worms are what gets reinfected within 4 to5 minutes on an empty connection (or a SP2 firewalled one, since SP2 firewall is even worse than Black Ice Defender).
WORMS however, are gotten via the net. Unfortunately for most users, not everyone has a home router with a firewall (or even without). Most people plug their computer into their cablemodem.
Instant worm infection follows shortly.
" What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
If someone is willing to throw out a computer, they obviously don't care about their settings, etc. They might recover a few megs of files. In a case like that, they can go straight to Linux without losing anything.
It seems to me that there is a place for a distro that installs itself over Windows, saves what it can of the user's settings and all the user files (as long as they aren't intermixed with the program). You would give it to someone and say, "Don't throw out the computer. Pop this cd in the drive. It will install Linux and save most of your files for you. It is free. If you don't like it, you can still buy a new computer. It hasn't cost you anything." That's something Joe sixpack can go for. (as long as he isn't a gamer.)
Buy your next computer from a supplier that offers you a choice other than Microsoft
otherwise you will just have more of the same.
Dell, Gateway, and HP's calculations all indicate that this really is the only solution to spyware:
(Number of Current Users)x($400) every twelve minutes!
I introduced a friend to the joys of removeable hard drives. Now his wife, who knows nothing about safe computing, has one, and he has the other. His drive never sees the internet; hers gets re-formated on a regular basis.
Spend $400 so you don't have to spend $129. Brilliant!
And good luck with that $375 Dell.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
If you have that much money to waste, why not donate the computer, so that someone who can't afford it can have one?
"Mr. Tucker, an Internet industry executive who holds a Ph.D. in computer science" is an idiot. How about throwing the software restore CD back in the drive and starting over?
You *can* prevent Spyware/Virus infestations if you do regular maintenance--it's not rocket science, but apparently it's difficult to grasp for Mr. Tucker.
This article really says nothing about the cost of transferring data or reinstalling or patching applications--$130 to remove your system from spyware is far less than a $400 new machine PLUS a minimum of 3-4 hours of labor required to get everything put back together on a new PC.
If you own Windows, you have to learn to take care of it. It is kind of annoying, yes, but there isn't an alternative and it doesn't really take a lot of time to keep it maintained.
Wow!
This works
Lets see 400 bucks for 1 new computer. Usually comes with 6 months of free antivirus stuff. We shall assume you use the free version of AdAware and spybot. Then you set them all to automatic.
Now AntiVirus updates are on the order of 40 bucks a year. So lets say I spend 2 hours a month fiddling with this junk. Lets say I get paid 20 an hour. So 12*2*20+40 is 520. Now that is fairly close to the point of 'hell with it'.
Now I have a 2500 dollar computer. Fairly top end I am not going to be doing this for a few years. But for people who just surf and a bit of word processing once and awhile. This could work.
However just by changing your habits (install, surfing). Buying a NAT router. Install some ad removal programs then target bots and stuff. You can have almost 0 virus/adware infections. I am am going on about 4 years with 1 infection and that was an exe someone sent me, and I got it before I ran it.
Why not keep a clean set up copied to a USB2 or Firewire hard drive using Disc Utility or freeware like Carbon Copy Cloner, back up your user folder and be ready for a quick wipe and reinstall? OK, I'm thinking mac, but isn't there a WinXP equivalent?
So you call your neighbourhood geek and let him do it. I'm no high end techie but I can definitely fix a spyware/virus problem and install the required updates. I'm sure any of us(ok well not maybe ANY) will be happy to fix it for you for a mere .... $30? Isn't that better than spending $400 for a new puter?
You should always do what you're good at and let a professional(Not in literal terms) fix your problems for you. From the article it seems like the concept is lost on the writer.
Ah, but here's the flaw: you through away the computer every time you get infected, but if it takes all of twelve minutes for a Windows computer to get reinfected again, then you will simply throw out a computer every twelve minutes. As to my calculations, that's 43,680 computers a year at $400 a pop totalling $17,472,000. A bit excessive, huh?
I believe the logic is inherrently flawed - a one-time purchase of some preventative/protection software for 1/4th the cost of a machine will prevent infection (at least partially) and will keep from having to buy some 40,000 computers a year (if we followed the lame logic of the article).
My comment sounds ridiculous, right? Yeah, so does the logic in the article.
---------
AND NOW, the worst editing ever... SLASHDOT.ORG! Where editors don't even bother to read their postings first! Also, they don't know how to write!
"Support Bacteria - Its the only culture some people have" - Circa 1985
Because Mom and Pop got thorough and proper training from qualified licenced professionals before being allowed to purchase their computer, and they have the certifications to prove it. Oh wait... is this the continuum where Bill Gates founded a huge multinational software empire?
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
and i will rebuild you pc for you!
Blimey bit extreme to buy a new pc! lol
Rob http://scullyshouse.tblog.com
ever heard of microsoft anti spyware beta...
The systems they aim at the Home User market or small SOHO market are often that way but the workstations aimed at businesses still come with Dell Bios locked versions of Windows and all the software. Most of them use to come with a hidden image that a program called ZZTOP could reimage the system with. No help if you loose a hard disk but just fine for a wipe and reinstall.
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
If you have a PC that is infested with Viruses and Spyware, take it to the nearest Apple Store and buy a new Macintosh to replace it. The gurus at the "Genius Bar" (not kidding, that's what it's called) will help you (for free) move your documents to your new Mac -- leaving the spyware and viruses behind, of course.
"To make a mistake is only human; to persist in a mistake is idiotic." Cicero
My HP Laptop became so infiltrated with spyware (in spite of running every anti-virus, anti-adware, popup blocker, firewall, etc known to man) that I finally "gave up" and reformatted the hard drive and reinstalled the OS (XP Pro SP 2). Unfortunately, in the case of HP, they don't give you a disk with all of the drivers and associated software on it, nor do they make all of the software available for free on their website, so I have a working but "hobbled" machine at the moment. At least there is no more spyware on it! It was a tense race against time to enable the firewall and install Norton anti-virus after reinstalling Windows XP before the first virus tried to get in.
There's no need to throw it out. Think of all the impoverished pple and geeks who could make use of the comp. Not to mention the impact on the landfills...
The bits on the bus go on and off... on and off... on and off...
Computer Geeks Find Corrupted PC's In the Dumpster
-=Zeus=And=Hades=-
1) Go to the HP site and download the freakin drivers.
2) Go to Fry's or online and buy a freakin NAT router/firewall for like $20. This will block the worms until you can get the updates installed.
As predictable as this response may be (to those who consider slashdot as a anti-ms and pro-linux forum)...
Don't throw your PC away because of spywarez, simply uninstall windows, and install (insert your favorite distro here) Linux.
You'll not need to worry about spywarez, for a LONG time!
the only permanence in existence, is the impermanence of existence.
This hosts file is updated regularly, and after putting it on a box you will find that adaware needs not be run anymore. And you block lots of ad sites as well. Why this isn't a more common simply solution I'm not sure.
Stoopid. Why don't y'all just throw out the TV part? That's where the real puter is!
Is there a specific dumpster I can go to to find these discarded computers? I'm looking for a new one, and malware being on the computer is no problem; just install Linux.
uh...I would think they would throw it out because "the blue E doesn't make the intertron go anymore"
and also
"I threw that disk away..I didn't know what it was"
The *entire* economy. Think about it. If people weren't lazy and stupid, they could just do stuff themselves. What would they need you for?
All hail the fat, lazy, stupid people!!!
Deleted
Since $400 is a LOT of money to be throwing out everyday (average time it will take for a Windows-based computer to be re-infected with spyware/malware), why not simply download Ubuntu (or any other user-friendly Linux distro) and install that instead?
Think about the amount of money you will save. The peace of mind you will get. And you might only have to put up with a little bit of knowledge -- the learning curve of using Mozilla Firefox on Linux instead of Internet Explorer on Windows.
Sounds to me like the best alternative.
This sig can be distributed under the LGPL license
I used to build and service computers, but quit for two reasons...
1. The bottom fell out on the cost of hardware...it is really hard to compete when you can go buy a new boxen for $400. Granted, the ones I built then, would smoke the $400 jobs today, but the average user doesn't care.
2. Windows spyware issues drove me absolutely bonkers. When some dumb-ass would install bonzi-buddy and then start having problems, it invariably would be "a problem with the machine." There's only so much I can do to explain why it isn't a hardware problem -- the customer only knows that something is wrong.
Sure, I made a few bucks on service calls, but never had the satisfaction of a job well done because in two weeks time, the client would be back in the same hole.
I have neither the patience nor the desire to fsck around with Windows. In fact, my recommendation to folks now is to buy a Mac.
I've heard this again and again... the computer's broken, it's not worth the money to fix it because new computers only cost $400. This is correct if you view a computer like a car... just a piece of hardware that provides a service that can easily be swapped out for another car with little effort.
The fact is that most people's computers are like houses... they contain a lot of stuff, and they're highly personalized. It's not just data in "my documents" or e-mail... there are countless hours invested in most people's computers installing software, customizing settings, and so forth. Transferring data and software, and getting it back to where it functions as *your computer* is a time-consuming, error-prone task, especially for non-technical users. I'm *good* at it (I do it for a living) and it takes me 2-4 hours per computer just for the basics (install A/V, install printers, install digital camera software, get the iPod syncing again, migrate e-mail, documents, bookmarks, etc..).
It really boils down to what your time is worth. I tell people... I can clean off your computer in under two hours, or I you can spend $400 (really $500-600 if you account for everything most people want) plus two hours of my time moving your data to a new one. You can guess which most people choose...
-R
Although they're not *too* expensive, it bears reminding that people buying a Mac Mini also have to buy a new keyboard and mouse, since PS2 ports are the de facto standard, and the Mac Mini has none.
I don't respond to AC's.
Boxen My Ass!
While your idea is solid (I've done the same), I would recommend also imaging to a DVD, or DVD9 if necessary (yes there is a good use for them, expense and all). Since the machine you're supporting may not have a DVD burner, you may need to pull the drive and burn an image of it on one of your own boxes, but this also gives you a chance to keep an image on your own network. If you keep a copy and have a sandbox machine around, you can even follow along on your end when it comes time to walk the user through restoring the image.
Mal-2
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
I went to PalmOne.com (Palm Pilot site!! you know... the portable device?) and guess what? IE got whacked by a doubleclick add on their site. An hour or two later, I ran an adaware SE scan, and wouldn't you know it... spyware, and not just cookies either.
This was roughly 2 months ago, while searching for PDA driver updates. Friend's XP Home PC, she had issues with her Palm III and lost her CD.
That's why I carry a Knoppix cd in the car now. (right next to a few other distros I toy around with, Inside Linux comes to mind).
~DaedalusHKX
" What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
One more reason to use an O.S. OS.
I caught the Mountain Wumpus! He gave me his treasure chest ($100) to let him go free again.
Although there are some exceptions (like a root-kit enabled malware program), there's a cheap way to remove malware and viruses from a Windows XP or 2000 machine, provided, of course, you have a chance to work on it before you connect it to the Internet, and that SP2 is installed.
...but hey, if you've got a spyware infected machine and this sounds too complicated, I'll take it off your hands for the cost of shipping.
You can create a 'Default User', wipe his old profile, and log-on as that account. Configure settings to your liking. Then go back in as Admin, disable simple file sharing controls, and block off access to the 'Users' group to various "fail-safe" areas, such as Admin's profile folder, for example. Then you create your own user, make yourself part of the 'Users' group, and grant that user read access to the 'Default User' profile, and maybe read/write to Def User's 'Local Settings' folder.
Disable the 'Default User' account, then log-in under your own. Only install or remove software as Administrator, not through run-as. If the malware gets unbearable, reboot and log-on as Admin, copy your user account's data files somewhere temporarily, wipe out the profile and anything in 'Default User/Local Settings', then log in again. Voila. All your preferences are recovered from Def User, the compromised account has been cleaned, and as soon as you copy back your data, you're back in business.
I've really condensed the set-up steps here, but properly configuring an XP/2000 machine can make removing 99% (just guessing) of the stuff out there a breeze. Throw in ClamWin, and you've got free virus detection if you're curious about what hit you.
The problem is that sloppy software developers make users run their programs under admin privileges. If commercial developers weren't so reluctant about maintenance (there you go Mark), OEMs could provide a properly configured machine OOTB.
Fred
"A fool and his freedom are soon parted"
-RMS
Seriously.. There's no rationale to any of this. If your time is worth more thant the 400 bucks it costs to buy a new system, rather than keep the old one clean, then you're probably making a decent salary. Wouldn't someone fed up with cleaning spyware off their system just move to a platform that is proven to have less problems? Macs are good that way and easy to use for the less technically inclined. The difference in cost is negligible in the long run assuming yearly replacement of a Wintel system, especially if you're buying Mac minis. And you clearly have money to throw away anyways. The whole thing sounds a bit like leasing a car. Now there's a business to get into. Leasing cheap computers.
I own a small PC service and repair shop in the UK. Recently I upgraded a customer's PC with a larger hard disk and a (licenced) copy of Windows XP. Two weeks later he returned to the shop, fully prepared to buy another new HD because the current one was 'full of crap' (spyware / viruses) due to his uninformed use of e-donkey etc. I had to explain to him that the disk could be reformatted and XP could be reinstalled from scratch without the need to physically replace it.
throw out the computer and buy a new one.
A Dutch public prosecutor did exactly this. He bought a new computer after his old one got infested with malware and viruses. He put the old one out on the street as garbage.
That got very nasty. Ultimately it cost him his job, because confidential correspondence was leaked when someone picked it up and examined the disk.
In the end he was lucky not to be prosecuted himself, for having child pornography on the system. However, that set some nice precedence: apparently it is no problem to have something on your system when it has gotten there "unintentionally".
there will be always enough ignorant people to drive the economy...
unfortunately in wrong direction (crappy disposable products, for example).
So, in the long run, you will have real cheap and real unusable boxen - no one will make them work for more than year, etc, etc...
Slashdot. News for nerds, stuff that matters, failed car analogies.
Curiosity was framed. Ignorance killed the cat.
It's very sad that people are so ignorant, but they really don't want to hear that all the problems are their fault so they blame it on whoever made the computer. And when they get a new one from somewhere else that has the same problems, they just ignore it and tell themselves "Buying a new computer was worth it, that old one was too slow!."
1. Buy a can of petrol and matches.
2. Find an outdoor area, free of flammable materials.
3. Apply petrol liberally to PC.
4. Light match, throw at PC, stepping backwards.
5. http://www.dell.com/
The alternative, Firefox, is too much effort by comparison.
${YEAR+1} is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop!
Only those idiots who still use Microsoft Windows still get spyware. Linux is secure against spyware and viruses so this is a problem of the past.
when I still USED windows, I ran a few Nmap scans from my linux boxen. After 3 hours of comparing logs, I walked away disgusted. Even ZoneAlarm cannot come close to the way my linux rigs (and the bsd file server) kept Nmap's various scans at bay.
I didn't bother to fuck with the open RPC available during install phase... it was easy to understand... any system with a net connection and drivers that install during windows install... its all over folks. And ZoneAlarm, Windows Firewall, and most other "free windows firewall" "products" didn't stop the nmap scan from detecting the open RPC.... one can only imagine how easy that system would've been to hack if I hadn't wiped it and reinstalled it.
It now comfortably houses a linux distro and nmap replies mostly with "all ports on this machine are in the following state: filtered" (I won't give you the verbose logs as that would be telling).
" What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
0) Log in as Normal User
1) Right-click your EXE or MSI
2) Click "Run as..."
3) Enter Admin credentials
Yes excessive when a good technician can do the job for free if he's a good friend or for around 200$ for a good disinfection (Formatting it, if necessary, removing, from your eyes, the first door entrance of malware ... "IE" and installing Firefox... A good anti virus + Spy bot.
Myself I thorough away a 2.4Ghz for a Mac mini, since then no virus, no spyware or anything else that I know of. Oh! I have an infected laptop that got infected when I had to use IE the last time, 2 Mont's ago. Right now, I'm thinking of reformatting it, but in my mind there is something terribly wrong wih IE and XP.
Can't you just right-click an installer and hit 'Run As...' without having to log-out / back-in? Y'know, kinda like in Linux when you type 'su' or 'sudo -S'
that the best solution for me is to have 4 harddrives in my computer with a boot disk set up for each drive. that way when i want to browse around i only boot up #1. making music? i only boot up #2. games? only boot up #3. art and documents/financial stuff...#4. when i'm not browsing the net, i have a manual toggle switch on the front of my case that physicaly breaks the LAN connection. and my router takes care of all the port sniffers. it's a bit complicated, but it's the easiest solution i've come up with for a consistently stable system. there are less driver conflicts as well.
It takes just a moment and an action to destroy. It takes some time and thought to create.
Doesn't this kind of aggravate the environmental problem that simply 'throwing out' old PCs poses? Whoever wrote TFA should think a little more before publishing such irresponsible drivel.
The Mac mini comes with zero mouse buttons. Because it comes with no mouse.
But if you're throwing out an old computer, you already have a mouse, monitor and keyboard, don't you?
...and here lies the problem...
Moreover, 68 percent said they had had computer trouble in the last year consistent with the problems caused by spyware or adware
While it's true that it could be spyware that these people are suffering from, it could also be countless other things.
I take issue with the notion that it's a "cost-effective" alternative. When you factor in the cost of the pollution it will create, effects on health and the environment, I think the cost will be much greater than people realize.
the real spyware threat has to do with people that don't know how to use their computers. there are way too many people using computers now that really shouldn't. the people who can't tell the difference between scams and real, when those popups come up that pretend to be really important, urgent, and real dialogs. or when people are faked into downloading an software "update"
i guess you could say some of the problem is that people are being told now to update their software feverishly and install as much anti-spyware software as possible and all this stuff when really sometimes they may be installing the wrong stuff.
When I'm away at school, I work as a tech support consultant. Spyware and viruses keep me employed. So stop throwing those PC's away and bring them to us!
Hypocrisy is the 8th deadly sin.
If performance means so much then why not buy something that is designed for games? X-box, PS2, just to name two, come to mind. I can spend less money and get better performance with a cheap PC running Linux and an X-box or even a Mac Mini and a X-Box.
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
All that in 19 minutes.
Yeah, mmhmm, going to throw away my dual-Xeon server and my 3 GHz P4 just because it has spyware. Yep. Makes perfect sense to me.
The problem with using XP's built in firewall is that the network interfaces come up a few seconds before the firewall does so you are still vulnerable. The only way you are safe using XP's built in firewall is if you slipstreamed SP2 on the XP install CD. Unfortunately, most systems come with a recover CD and it is nearly impossible (ever used SoftICE?) to slipstream updates on a recovery CD.
It's probably wrong, but whenever I hear someone talk about how they get malware, I immediately conclude they're clueless on almost any subject having to do with computers.
I've told my parents and sister how they need to run Ad-Aware once a week, and then I installed a free antivirus (AVG) on their box. This was after I decided I had wasted 4 hours cleaning their PC for the last time. Last time I went over to their house, I checked, and all they had were a few tracking cookies. Previously I could count on 200+ "critical objects".
Total cost? $0, a few minutes of installation, and 5 minutes once a week running Ad-Aware.
When I read the article, and saw that an "Internet industry executive" with a PhD and a professor of computer science could not figure out Ad-Aware and a virus checker, I almost laughed. Surely the school has some policy for dealing with malware? Couldn't the professor copy their solution at home? Failing that, I would expect people in their postions to be smart enough to hunt down possible solutions on their own, if it were bothering them that much.
Maybe not
Second, if you're gonna throw away your rig over something as stupid as this - throw 'm my way! I'll clean 'm and put them to good use or sell them. Either way, I'm the winner in this story.
Sure, spyware, adware and whatever are annoying, but I've seldomly seen some junk that cannot be cleaned easily.
http://jcsnippets.atspace.com/ - a collection of Java & C# snippets
I am very surprised that I myself hadn't thought of this.From now on if I can't reformat a spyware infected pc.With Linux mind you.Then I'm gonna hit it with a sledgehammer till it's good and fixed forever. Goodbye worthless windows spyware infected crappile. Hello Linux or OSX or BSD or Solaris.
There is nothing about a Mac that makes them so much more secure then a windows machine.
What makes a Windows machine insecure is MARKET PENETRATION.
Seriously, it is in your best interest that people keep buying Window machines.
Cause if you guys keep upping the market penetration of Macs sooner or later the people coding viruses, trojans and the like are gonna start to look your way.
At the moment you are a waste of there time.
That is the only thing that really protects you.
Better throw it out and buy a new one.
INACTIVE ACCOUNT
Here they are throwing out perfectly good PCs (that cost them $1-2K) and spending $400 on a new one because they think that's cheaper than spending $100-150 on spyware cleaning AND learning how to avoid the stuff in the future.
And then they stop using the PC to visit Web sites in order to avoid spyware.
So they just spent $400 for a reduced-usability machine.
Which will still get infected unless they stop going to ANY Web sites - since Web sites that do put on spyware don't advertise the fact, so there's no way the end user can tell. I had a client recently whose kids went to sports sites and sports shoe sites - not porn sites - they ended up with hundreds of spyware and trojans.
Obviously some people have way too much money and not enough brains.
And this doesn't count the umpteen more users who just reformat and reinstall Windows every time the machine slows down - which is at least every three months based on my clients experiences (before I got there and installed the necessary protection.)
As I see it, this is really an opening for Linux, since we're starting to see behavioral changes on the part of users based on the limitations of Windows. The Linux industry needs to start emphasizing the fact that there is virtually NO malware on Linux. Then we need to make sure that end users get their Linux either pre-installed on low-end machines or are educated to use Linux tech support guys when they have some minor hardware problems with their distro. Users need to be educated that spending fity or a hundred bucks to get set up right in the first place is worth it when they will never need reinstalling subsequently.
For those who think Linux program installation is a problem, which is worse? Having the odd program fail to install because of dependency problems, or having to back everything up and throw everything out every three months? You handle the former by educating the user to only use the repositories supported by his distro. For the casual user, this is more than good enough. The power user can learn to deal with dependencies.
Just because of malware ALONE, Linux is so superior to Windows there isn't even a comparison.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
I was responsible for some aspects of UK Government IT security in the 80s.
In one incident I found an IBM XT (the first common PC, cost about 4k GBP in '84, as I recall) locked in a cupboard in HM Treasury. They had got a virus on it, and had 'secured it'. It had been there nearly 2 years.
God knows how much 4k GBP in 1986 equates to nowadays! Mind you, it did stop it spreading...
You can see that the PC-looking cludge is off and she is now using a PowerBook or iBook. The image says it all.
[/amused]
I can do it for $20 a Hour.
Well boys, sounds to me like your lazy asses don't need to be playing hours of Counterstrike online anymore then, do you? Have funn looking up stuff for your schoolwork in the library with those big old dusty retro books.
Retro is cool, right! Just like being a lazy do-it-for-me spoiled little shit! Have fun slacking in the land of the ludite, you little puds.
While the software industry often puts out some fairly sloppy shit sometimes, thety can't be blamed for the most basic of human conditions these days: People are incredibly lazy, and cannot be bothered with actually having to LEARN anything.
I say, "fuck 'em. Throw your fucking money away, you dumbasses, and stop asking us why we think we're better than you when you ask us for free repairs and we laugh in your faces."
s'wut i sed.
I remember setting up new computers in college. The one guarantee I had with a new computer?
It would be *infested* with dealer-installed spyware.
I even had one computer that tunneled all HTTP requests through an outside server. Which caused a few problems when we needed to go to an HTTP page to register the computer on the network and give it access to anything outside the school network.
"Sorry, I can't access my CENTRAL SPYWARE SERVER. No HTTP for you!"
So, let's summarize the solution here:
Computer full of spyware? No problem! Throw it out and buy another computer equally full of spyware!
PROBLEM SOLVED!
Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
Transfering software to the new PC is the biggest headache, not the cost of the machine. Transfering software can result in these problems:
1. Long install times
2. Cannot find disks
3. Incompatabilities with new hardware
4. License forbids CPU change
5. Lost custom configurations/settings
6. Stuff I forgot to list
Table-ized A.I.
I have a Windows PC running XP Pro.
I have a cable modem (no protection) and a wireless/wired switch (NAT firewall), so that explains why I don't get port-scanned to death.
I download software but don't open executable attachments, and when I DL I google first for the software name and "spyware" and don't DL if there's any indication it's a trojan.
The only "spyware" I get are tracking cookies. And Ad-aware cleans those up if it knows them, when I run it, maybe once a month. But they come back, because I go to those sites again.
Am I missing something? Where is all this spyware coming from if I'm doing minimal or sub-minimal prophylaxis?
I have serious doubts about the truthfulness of this article. According to the article, Lew Tucker is a Vice President at Salesforce.com, but I can't find a 'Lew Tucker' anywhere in a Google search, except for somebody by that name with a Gmail account.
He doesn't seem to be anywhere on the salesforce.com website, either.
I wonder if the writer of the article made him up?
www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance
Let's see if I have this right.
1. Clueless user gets rid of old Windows PC
2. Clueless user installs or has installed the same old software he had.
3. Still clueless user continues same behaviors he was doing, only on a new computer.
4. New computer becomes infested or otherwise hosed up.
4. Repeat.
One of the definitions of insanity is repeatedly doing the same behavior and expecting different results.
What could be simpler?
---- I have nothing more to add.
Don't throw it out!
Just give it to me!
Well they should have contacted me.. I would have charged only $50 ;) ..
What does your Credit Report look like?
Kill yourself, why wait for a cure?
This is the MOST ridiculous idea I've ever heard of.
The same thing we do every night Pinky. That damned Stage 1 Gentoo installation we've always promised ourselves.
As far as malware's concerned, there's no difference between buying a new computer and installing a new OS on the old one. You might as well throw away your car when it runs out of gas or needs an oil change.
I suppose if cars cost $400 people would probably do that.
I used to think those stories about newly rich oil sheiks throwing out cars when they needed maintainance were just ethnic jokes, but with allegedly rational and educated people pulling stupid stuff like this, maybe they're not.
I highly encourage anyone to do this. Poor, college geeks like dumpster diving for electronics.
Hmm.. maybe I can finally build my server farm I've always dreamt about.
Do what I say, cuz I said it.
-Meatwad
Secondly, WTF is a computer scientist doing with a Dell computer, anyway?
Thirdly, WTF is a computer scientist doing running Windows?
Finally, the title of the article is "Corrupted PC's Find New Home in the Dumpster."
Do you see anything wrong with that? Corrupted is a verb, corrupt is an adjective. Geez! That must have been John Markoff's doing
...98% of all average computer users are stupid. No really. It's not that hard to avoid infection. Personally, I don't run Windows anymore. Most Linux distros are easy enough for anyone to use these days, but they need to get over the "but I need "X" software package to do "Y". Unless they are looking for a specific Windows only business app (which is not the target group that this study was conducted against), or a Windows only game (just dual boot with networking disabled in Windows and screw MMORPGs and internet enabled FPS games), Linux should do just fine.
However, I can easily run Windows and never get infected. It's just not that hard to keep up with Windows Updates and make sure you NEVER put your box directly on the net. If you run Windows and you don't have a hardware gateway/firewall, you're an idiot. I've got a non-technically literate friend who I set up with a hardware gateway, and I told him to NOT use that administrator account unless he's doing updates or some installs. He's been OK. Keep in mind, I'm a hardcore Linux user and really find Windows limiting for my needs. But it's just not that hard to keep a Windows box running if you follow some simple instructions and stop being a moron.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
Not only do new computers strain the environment, but old computers need to be disposed of. It costs a great deal more than $400 to make a new computer, make the old computer, and dispose of the old computer.
But what to you expect from the NY Times? Shortsighted and made up is their motto.
I often recommend just this response: buy a new PC.
My usual strategy is to spend 1-2 hours on cleaning the system. If the cleaning breaks the OS then if the system is less than 3 years old reinstall the OS, otherwise get a new PC.
What obnoxious, self-congratulatory crap. It was *not* a good value to spend $400 on a new computer rather than remove the Spyware. OK? It just wasn't. He did it because he's lazy and can afford to waste money. He wouldn't have lost anything by taking the half hour he would have spent visiting porn sites (how else would he get so infested with Spyware?) and installing Adaware.
The whole point of this article is "Ooh. Look how busy and important I am. I'm a doofus who visits porn sites and gets his computer infested with Spyware, but look how busy and important I am!"
I email my whining to them, I haven't heard back.
They have installed stuff on their site which requires latest versions of IE or Netscape, with Java ON and Flash.
Geez, I just wanted to submit Gerber files and have them fabricate a PCB from those files.
As an old HTML, Perl, CGI programmer too, I know this is trivial... so why do commercial sites make such a big deal over requiring us, which often still use older machines, as well as nonmainstream machines, as we have lots of legacy designs to support, to run the latest proprietary whiz-bang software - often requiring known viral pathways to be open?
I find dealing with people who have had Business education very perplexing... if I want a job and I have to give them a resume, they will be extremely picky, and if I mention I REQUIRE anything, they are apt to ditch my resume upon seeing that word - they see me immediately as being "inflexible"... yet they seem to throw that word "required" around with reckless abandon if they are the ones marketing the service.
I have had viral attacks, and I see them all the time... even as I write this, my ports 1026 and 1027, along with numerous other ports - are being relentlessly pounded with God Knows What - from seemingly Everywhere! Thanks to some good firewall and proxy software, I have so far succeeded in stealthing myself so no-onw except the ones I am currently "doing business with" is aware of my existence on the web, verified with sniffer.
Problem is, everytime I get on the web - even on a dialup - with lightning speed people share my IP with "marketing partners", and within seconds of visiting certain sites ( unfortunately Slashdot is one of them too ), I will notice a marked increase of other systems trying to contact me, trying all sorts of various ports to see if their applet is in my machine and will respond to it.
Yes, I am aware of this hanky-panky, but how do I tell Business that Requiring me to use insecure technologies or disabling my firewalls is unacceptable to me? They only appear to see me as a whiner.
The Corporate Executive and his Webmaster appear to sit in plush environs totally insulated from the problems we techie guys have when we have viral intrusions, or have to use legacy stuff on new machines, just for the sake of communications protocols.
They tell me I can trust the later software. Sure... we both have completely different opinions of what does "trust" mean? To me, it means that the TRUSTED is ACCOUNTABLE for its behaviour... if you have clauses in the EULA that deny responsibility for its actions, you expect me to TRUST it? Geez!!!
It makes me wonder if the printed circuit board vendor even remembers what his business exists for... is it to receive Gerber files from the customer and deliver printed circuit boards made from them, or are they "team partners" with some huge software firm intent on forcing everyone to upgrade their machines to communicate with the latest proprietary protocols?
What business schools teach these executives to invest millions of dollars in PCB fab technology, then bar the customers from their business by requiring them to jump through hoops?
This seems to me to be just as asinine as some shopping mall requiring people coming into their parking lot to arrive in a Lexus.
I find it amazing a lot of companies survive if they don't seem to know what they do.... Or possibly its that I *thought* the company existed to make PCB's, but the true reason for their existence is to transfer investor money to the executive pocket, with the whole PCB fab thingie being just a front.
I am pretty bitter over it... so I am loathe to name the company in thie post. But if you have had to deal with viruses on your own, and have these people in a "position of power" ramming you into what you felt was unsafe practices, completely
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
While it isn't as easy as just paying $50, it's still easily one of the most idiotic ideas I've heard to solve computer woes. I wouldn't throw out old boxen even if the new one cost $0. Only someone who hasn't rebuilt systems, over and over again, thinks the problem is solved by getting a new computer. Someone's already mentioned that it's the reconfiguration of the system where the pain comes in. Most users can't do this for themselves anyway, which means they'd have to call in an expensive geek regardless. Users, bite the fricking bullet and deal with learning the box OR run it as user! I'm telling everyone, if a user tries running as User, they will stick to it, just because they will probably no longer get infected - software installation inconvenience be damned. The only reason people aren't doing this in droves is because they don't know they can do it - they have no concept that they can run the box on restricted permissions. Really. I dare any geek to go to a customer whose box is regularly 0wned by spyware, and tell them, well, there's this simple thing you can do, and you won't get any more bills from me - however, you won't be able to just install any software you want. Believe me, they will follow your suggestion and KISS YOUR FEET.
Okay, it's a troll, but it's a response to something I heard on our local TV call-in session on the news channel this past Wednesday. Not having perfect memory, I'll synopsize it:
.... ....
Caller: I've got viruses, it said.
Expert: What said? The virus software?
Caller: Yeah, the virus software. I'm looking at it right now. There's a window on the screen that says I have viruses on my computer, and I need to get them off.
Expert: Okay, that's pretty much bad. What software do you use?
Caller: Whatever they put on here. I got it a couple of months ago, so it's up do date, right?
Expert: Well, not really... you need to update your virus database regularly... maybe even every couple of days, you know? It's usually not a day goes by without something new coming out threat-wise.
Caller: So I should update now?
Expert: Yep. Now. Immediately.
Caller: So I just click in this window that popped up and I'll be updated right?
Expert:
Expert: How do you mean, "popped up"?
Caller: Well, I was surfing the web, and this window came up and said I had viruses... I just clicked it. That's right, right?
Expert:
Expert: Do you have any antivirus software on your machine?
Caller: No... the people at the store said that would be extra.
(to the tune of Ce Cera Cera):
Whatever is free will be....
Your unholy nightmare...
Your reason to see...
That only the wise should own...
The boxen that securly link...
Our world to those others...
Who really do think.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. ~~ Hunter S. Thompson
I've found that my posts don't format quite right w/o a sig.
"What about the times when you install a stupid program (Warcraft III comes to mind) that saves games in a dir that only an admin can access (if installed as admin)?"
:)
Just set the NTFS permissions on that file/folder/branch so the file(s) can be written by the "Users" group. Depending on the complexity of the program, who else needs to use it, and such, you can even lock it down against modification of the stuff that shouldn't change (to, e.g., to protect against virus infection of EXE files). I do this all the time, although it's usually to make some CAD program or some such work, and not to play games.
It's programs that do goofy, undocumented things like trying to install DLLs into the C:\WINDOWS directory every time they're run (no, I'm not making that up) that really irritate me.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
It's been four and a half years now since OS X came out. Everyone knows it's more secure than Windows by design, not just because of low market penetration. There are probably hundreds if not thousands of malware-coding losers probing it in vain, looking for a weakness they can exploit and take all us smug Mac users down a peg.
Why? Fame. Think about how 1337 all your script kiddie cohorts would think you were, if you were the first guy to come up with a Mac OS X virus.
But nobody's managed to do it yet-- not even an unsuccessful one spotted in the wild. If someone had, it would be a top story on all the Mac news sites. Right now, the only people who report doom and gloom ahead on the Mac malware front want to sell me security or anti-virus software.
but the palm comment was still lewd and quite appropriate }:-)
" What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
Maybe a manufacturer could introduce a program in which you purchase a computer, and if anything goes wrong, you send the thing back (or drop it off at your local service center) and they send out another. The idea would be something like repair, except there would be no attempt to give you the same hardware every time. The only thing that would happen is that your personal data would be duplicated onto the new machine, the old one would undergo some diagnostics, any of the five-or-so parts on such a system that are bad be swapped out, and the system automatically be reimaged for the next customer.
This would require a single, standard computer so that the hardware could be swapped out underneath, something like a console. I could see Dell doing something like this in the future -- the greatest problem for ordinary home users seems to be maintenance of computers, and I have seen very few strides to attempt to address this.
This "standard computer" may not be a geek paradise, but I think that it might do a better job of serving the masses.
Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
Actually I need a couple fairly new free computers for various linux projects ... so if you are in the south east and need a new home for your sick computer ... let me know ... Thanks.
I can see it now: nytix, for those Windows PCs you would throw out.
1. Dell pays New York Times to write article
2. Slashdot the article
3. ?????????
4. Profit
<overrated>Insert Sig Here</overrated>
Finally! It all becomes very obvious.
Filtering various forms of traffic is quite important. One can bypass a simple port blocker given time, patience, and the right tools (or the skills to create the right tools).
Nmap is only one such tool I have had the pleasure of working with since before insecure.org was more than a little blackhat site known as Fyodor's Exploit World (heh... that was back in the early Windows 95 days for those of you stuck on that platform).
" What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
Setup a router, keep its firmware updated (so it doesn't get bypassed the way Cisco PIX and Dlink 604's with original firmware do) and you are good to go. The bypasses are only a concern if your network is a point of attack for determined and resourceful hacker/cracker types. If those types are not a constant in your equation... then a router with firewall capability is perfect. So long as you're not providing a tunnel to port 1025 on your XP machine :) that would... suck.
" What luck for rulers that men do not think" - Adolf Hitler
I work for a local shop, and we build and service all machines. We do spyware removal, and one part of our service is that we will offer to sell you a new machine if the amount of money spent for the spyware removal exceeds the value of the computer. It usually only happens with older computers, though that's not always the case.
I have bad karma
I do computer repairs in a retail store. Even though we don't sell it I end up suggesting NOD32 from http://www.eset.com/ to 95% of my virus and spyware removal customers. Its very lite at under 10MB for the program installer and uses less memory that most scanners. On a computer i worked on last week I ran a scan with their copy of Norton 2005 and found 158 infections... It was able to remove 27. I ran a scan with NOD32 and it found an additional 174 infections and removed them all.
I also like to run additional scans with MS Antispyware, Webroot Spysweeper (best non-free program I've found) and Lavasoft Ad-aware.
For customer's who don't want to spend money on NOD32 andy Spysweeper I usually direct them to download Avast and MS Antispyware to prevent future infections.
Also, last but not least I like to install Firefox and set it as the default browser.
You buy the mini. It comes with a port that does DVI and a cable that plugs into that port to hook up a VGA monitor. If Joe Average can't figure out how to attach the cable, he can't figure out how to plug any part of any computer in. Joe Average isn't *that* dumb, and the manual is very clear about this.
Take computer out of box. Plug in power. Plug in keyboard. Plug in mouse. Plug in monitor cable. Plug in monitor. No problem.
That's why the adapters are on an unlinked page... you only need to order a new one if your dog ate the one that came with the mini.
Any mass-market monitor made in the past eight years will work on a Mini out of the box. The only thing you'd have trouble with is BNC cables on some super-high end model for graphics professionals... then you'd need a special cable, as always.
So if Joe Average really is just getting rid of his PC because of spyware, the cost of the monitor is not an issue.
So what they are saying is that when I fix someones computer of spyware, I can probably charge up to 200$???
...time to go dumpster diving.
"Your new Dell PC does not require a recovery disc. To re-install, call 1-800-BAD-SUPRT, select option 4, then 7, then 2, wait 63 minutes on hold, get transferred to the department you were trying to reach in the first place, then spend another hour-and-a-half being walked through on how to restore the operating system from the hidden partition." Yeah... It's easy... It's easy for us, but for Joe? Too much of a hassle. Remember, Joe doesn't know about Spybot and AdAware, either. As for Linux... does anybody who isn't on the development team for Gentoo know how to install it? I've seen some pretty slick GUI installs for Linux, but Gentoo is ASS BACKWARDS. Pretty much kept me on Windows for the next 6 months, until I work up the courage to try and switch... again.
are just endless -- there was one company that put me to work for many many billable hours trying to figure out why WordPerfect was suffering huge performance issues in certain cases. Never did solve it, end result cost far more than a new workstation would have.
I told them (in the beginning) that with the amount of money they would be spending, they could've just replaced his workstation outright (his was the only machine in the office with the problem). They deferred to another admin's judgement and he veto'ed the idea, demanding the "proper" solution.
=P
I don't see any comments on this, but according to the article, this guy has a PhD in Computer Science and works for a software company. I hope he works in Sales/Marketing and not in the development side of the house.
... At the very least he should return to his school and demand a refund, if he graduated too stupid to secure his own damn computer. I explained this to my high school dropout neighbor and he got it. Geesh!!
This is scary on so many levels
Because the American consumer doesn't throw out nearly enough.
.]'"
"'I was spending time every week trying to keep the machine free of viruses and worms,' said Mr. Tucker, a vice president of Salesforce.com, a Web services firm based here. 'I was losing the battle.[. .
I submit that Mr. Tucker is a fucking moron.
Average lifespan of a Windows computer - 4 minutes?
.PAC file proxy filters in all web-browsers vs. adbanners & such.
.reg files which the first body of code in the HOSTS file I use is prepped for the .reg filedata for via a program I built in ObjectPascal delphi console mode ripping away the URL from the 127.0.0.1 loopbacks I equate adbanner servers to, etc. & then insert these here and into IPSecPols also).
Beg to differ!
All you need to do, is these steps, with a 1/2 hour time using regedit &/or notepad @ most, check it:
Never get infected AGAIN (on Windows no less), ever, & most certainly NOT in 4 minutes time as was said here recently & now!
I posted this for those that have been victims because it works...
(@ least until nothing NEW that's malicious comes along that beats this list that is, & it's worked for myself & others online for 8 years running now almost in its techniques, which ALL work harmoniously in conjunction simultaneously with one another/concurrently... what "spooks" me some? Rootkit technology - that's GOING to appear in the virii of tomorrow, guaranteed: More on that towards the end & my opinions on it)!
APK Online Security 20-points basic checklist. A combination of things really, layered security is the idea!
DETAILS:
http://www.avatar.demon.nl/APK.html [demon.nl] [demon.nl]
SUMMARY:
1.) IP Security Policy in place for adbanner servers blocking OR other "undesirable" IP addresses.
2.) A custom adbanner blocking HOSTS file with 35,000++ entries in it with known banner ad servers in it (which have been shown in some cases even as bearing malicious javascript etc. in them as well as just plain slowing you down as you surf the web by calling out to DNS' servers for URL to IP resolution & loading their remote data).
3.) Tcp/IP filtering @ the IP Stack levels (UDP & TCP) allowing ONLY port 80. Need others? Open then up, this is all I need personally here.
4.) Using up to date AntiVirus & AntiSpyware.
5.) Using
6.) IE Restricted Zones (added to via
7.) Custom adbanner filtering Cascading Style Sheets in webbrowsers when possible (via Opera).
8.) ZoneAlarm Pro or Native Windows Firewall. ZA is the better overall, the Windows one works though.
9.) Disable Java-javascript &/or ActiveX-activescripting in your webbrowsers.
Sorry webmasters, but too many holes popup here and ONLY IE gets that enabled here for Windows Update really only or sites that "demand" I use either.
10.) Making sure the Operating System is up-to-date/fully hotfix or service pack patched.
11.) Disabling uneeded services (especially remote oriented ones, e.g.-> Remote Registry) gaining not only memory & CPU cycles back, but also security:
Microsoft is even into this one now, evidenced by Windows Server 2003 Security Configuration Wizard run by the installation of SP #1 final onto it.
(I've been doing it for YEARS now, better than a decade since Windows NT 3.51 in fact: It WORKS!)
12.) Using restricted Registry &/or FileSystem ACL rights to disks/folders/files + Registry Hives.
13.) Amending secpol.msc & gpedit.msc security polices local to my system for better security.
14.) Using User-Rights & restricting them to my usual logged on user & the system entity SID itself only on most rights, denying all other groups.
15.) Applying registry hacks known to fortify the system BOTH remotely & locally per Microsoft guides for this on Windows Server 2003 for "OS Hardening" &/or "Tcp/IP Hardening".
16.) Being sure applications are up-to-date & patched current as well.
17.) Lastly here, by using a LinkSys BEFSX41 "NAT" & true CISCO technologies based stateful-packet-inspecting firewall router!
18.) Disabling NetBIOS over Tcp
As several people have indicated, Debian's dpkg --get-selections provides you with this. But it gets better.
Application configuration data is pretty much definitionally /etc, which is why you want that backed up.
In the "it gets better" department: Debian, being a policy-based distro, requires that all packages create a directory under /usr/share/doc. Turns out you can use this to recover the data effectively held in your packages database, in the event you wipe out /var. In fact, I've scripted the recovery, after the idea was suggested by Nicholas Petreley, available here (among other places -- Osamu Aoki also includes it in his Debian Reference).
Debian also stores a backup of your packages database (and other important data) in /var/backups.
So, yes, you're covered a couple of different ways, particularly if you maintain backups.
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
12 minutes to get *infected, 1440 minutes in a day times $400 a computer equals $48000 a day.
*considering that there have been a few articles stating that computers can get infected with spyware and viruses within 12 minutes of connecting to the internet.
lose != loose
I accept all the trashed computers with spyware. I'm sure I can find some use for them O:)
Umm... perhaps Gentoo isn't for you? I happen to like the way it installs. In fact it's anything but "ass backwards", as the idea is that you can install gentoo from any standard working environment, which means relying on tools that are *guaranteed* to be there. And no, I'm not a gentoo developer, but have been a satisfied user for quite some time.
The XP firewall was added in SP1, not SP2. Any Windows PC less than about 2.5 years old would have come with an XP+SP1 CD, but if you've got an old pre-SP1 CD, then you'll have to do one of the following:
1) Download SP1 (or SP2) and write it to a CD. Whenever you install XP, add SP1 (or SP2) and turn on the firewall before plugging in a network cable (if you install SP2, the firewall will automatically be turned on, but I'm not sure about SP1).
2) Create a splipstreamed XP CD with SP1 or SP2 already installed.
All in all, SP2 and the XP firewall are a huge improvement over SP1, or especially the original (swiss cheese) XP. I know people who have a history of collecting all sorts of spyware, worms, etc., but since I installed SP2 for them, their systems have remained clean. The Server 2003 R2 beta I recently tried (it can be downloaded from microsoft.com) is even better.
It's pretty obvious to anyone that Microsoft's early mass-market releases of NT (especially 2000 and pre-SP1 XP) had still been designed with a LAN environment in mind, so directly connecting them to the Internet was often disastrous (less capable systems like Windows 3.x/9x or Mac OS 1-9 didn't really have any server capabilities, so there wasn't much to attack).
What's also obvious, however, is that NT has been getting better in terms of security with each release. XP/SP2 or 2003/SP1 is generally fine in an Internet environment (user error can still make the system vulnerable, but that's true of any system with server capabilitiess). In my view, carrying on about how insecure Windows is will eventually become as anachronistic as claiming it's unstable. Those who used Windows 95/98/Me probably still chuckle at jokes about Windows instability, but for those of us who started with NT-based versions of Windows, there's no memory of that stuff, so the jokes aren't at all funny.
Check this out! http://www.bullet-proofpc.com/
A computer that CAN'T get spyware or viruses -- EVER! The OS is on a read-only chip. Permanent changes to the OS are forbidden. All of the apps you need to get real work done are pre-configured and easy to use.
Recent story on Slashdot ... unprotected PC now only has 12 minutes.
I might add, only in America is a $400 PC a "throw away" item.
Hasn't anyone heard of Adaware or SpyBot Search & Destroy ?
I just spent a couple of hours each, cleaning malware crap off two different PCs, for friends. They're back in business, a little wiser.
Don't blame me, it's usually 2 in the morning when I post
Once you've got everything installed, it's theoretically possible to be quasi-safe until the next interesting attack comes out, but it's fundamentally not worth it (especially since hardware firewalls are ~$29 these days, and usually have a built-in hub.) So you might as well leave the firewall in place.
Obviously for dialup it's not that simple, but there's a more limited attack space.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Format your disk! or more properly do more than format: shred /dev/hda
"Except that XP Home edition..."
:-)
Win XP Home is brain damaged by design and deliberate intent, no doubt about it. I've got an XP Home partition on my main home PC (for playing games). I don't spend that much time in Windoze at home. That being said, I have tweaked permissions and didn't find it all that hard to find what I needed. But then, I'm a professional computer geek. For "typical users", computers are nearly impossible to use properly (regardless of OS, platform, etc.), and Microsoft is the worst of a bad lot.
One thing I know for sure is that Win XP Home cannot be joined to a domain.
At work, if an XP Home PC shows up, the first then that happens is it gets wiped and reloaded with XP Pro.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
If you combine the conclusions of this article plus the /. article that stated a PC connected to the Internet on average gets infacted within 12 minutes, then we see:
/. denial of service on their website is enough punishment for such nonsense.
Avg. rate of infection: 1 per 12 minutes
Avg. cost of new PC: $400
That would be 720 computers you would have to buy and then throw out (assuming 0 assembly and boot time) in every day.
Obviously, this article is bullshit and hopefully the
Hagrin.com
Run Windows
unless you have a laptop. Kinda hard to get those "critical data" on an airplane.
Seems FAR less expensive to maintain.
I've got a WindowsXP box that I've been running for 9 months on, roughly. It's my primary home machine. I even lurk IRC with it. 4 different IM clients. All behind an out of the box Linsys non-wifi router.
I have yet to get around to installing *any* antivirus, or spyware software. I keep meaning to, but I don't have the time to set up the network based solution that will be the final implementation.
So about 2 weeks ago, I ran housecall.trendmicro.com. It's a browser based AV/Spyware scanner. So at the very end of it, the report was, that I had 8 tracking cookies. And no executables at all.
So my plan for dealing w/ spyware? Pay attention to what I'm doing online, and just don't get any. At least it seems to be working, so far.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
Hello, CNN.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
just testing