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I understood that reference!

I was thinking http://downlode.org/Etext/nine...

Currently, there are 80,668 lines of code.

Which is interesting, since the OS has nine billion names.

That's all we need, providing everyone with still more access to ancient text.

Two Paragraph spoiler summary if you want the CliffNotes version.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HotSauce

http://downlode.org/Etext/MCF/

This was fun to play with back in 96

The Feeling Of Power

People would laugh at the idea of mandatory age-ratings on books, so why do they accept it on movies and games?

Reminds me when I wanted to see a movie and was not allowed in. I then just bought the book and that had WAY MORE explicit sex and violence then the movie.

Also see what Zappa said way back:
http://downlode.org/Etext/zappa.html and for those too lazy to read: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc

Talking about songs and not video games, but same difference.

Reminds me of this Asimov short story, The Feeling of Power

Asimov - "The Feeling Of Power"

Can be read here: http://downlode.org/Etext/power.html

Supprise - Quantum Cryptography is also NOT secure. You need to understand the basics and look at why Quantum methods for data transmission are being implemented.

The basic problem - Data in encrypted using a key. The person wanting to recieve a encrypted file needs to get this key. How can you get it to them without someone else obtaining it?

Quantum methods merely allows the sender and reciever to see if someone in intercepting the communications, if this was the case they would NOT send the data. You'd still be stuck with how to provide the public key via a network.

http://downlode.org/Etext/alicebob.html

Finally we come to Secrecy Coding, or Cryptography. Secrecy Coding is what Alice uses to try to stop the tax authorities and the secret police understanding her telephone conversations.

Now cryptographers are very peculiar people. They have very devious minds. Sometimes they encrypt jokes. Security agencies call these "Covert Jokes". People who make them are CryptoLaffers.

An intelligible joke in its raw form is called the Plainjoke, and after encryption is called the Cipherjoke or Cryptojoke. Cipherjokes are intelligible of course only after Decryption, or as some people call it, after explanation.

There are three kinds of attack on an unintelligible cryptojoke according to the Jokeanalyst's resources. Firstly there is the Cipherjoke-only attack in which the Jokeanalyst is assumed to have unlimited amounts of material which is alleged to be funny.

Secondly and more powerfully there is the Known Plainjoke Attack in which he is given examples of jokes together with their explanations.

But most powerful of all is the Chosen Plainjoke Attack where he gets to ask the Cryptolaffer to explain WHY the joke is funny.

Feeble jokes are usually encrypted using only a very simple cipher, like changing the punch line. This is called the DEFLECTED ENDING SYSTEM or DES.

Very good jokes, the comprehension of which by outsiders could constitute a threat to national security, are encrypted much more securely, usually by completely changing the scenario, the plot and the conclusion. This is the PARTICULARLY KLEVER COVERUP or PKC. The best known PKC RESISTS SERIOUS ATTACK and is therefore called the RSA.

Excellent concept. Only Asimov beat you to the punch by 50 years.

We just don't need them anymore. We have better missiles, and better drones.

Reminds me of an old short story I read in the 80s...

"The Feeling of Power" by Isaac Asimov.

The text: http://downlode.org/Etext/power.html

Reminds me of Zappa http://downlode.org/Etext/zappa.html
[...] I believe it was you who asked the question of Mrs. Gore whether there was any other indication on the album as to the contents. And I would say that a buzzsaw blade between a guy's legs on the album cover is a good indication that it is not for little Johnny.

Here's a link to extracts from one of the original studies: http://downlode.org/Etext/WIPP/.
Beck mentions them, but only gives a trivial example.

On the other hand, if I recall correctly, one of the local Native American tribes said something like: "You don't need signs. If people wander into the area 10K years from now, we will warn them for you."

For the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant, this is the solution that was developed:
Permanent Markers Implementation Plan, United States Department of Energy, Waste Isolation Pilot Plant (PDF)

Some brainstorming that led to the above document--this contains some of the more "exotic" ideas that were considered:
Expert Judgement on Markers to Deter Inadvertent Human Intrusion into the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant (PDF)
Excerpts in HTML format

Overview of warnings for Yucca Mountain

Basically, the idea is to take a multi-layered approach, starting with simple "Danger" warnings (both symbolic and in current languages, large scale and small), and finishing with detailed scientific information about what we will have buried. There will be instructions to add new structures with translations into whatever languages will have arisen in future societies. Sturdy but low-value materials will be used. There are a lot of other considerations; the "Expert Judgement..." document is an interesting read.

I agree with the other posters saying that reprocessing should make all of this moot, though.

An example (by Asimov) is The Feeling of Power .

has something to say

>Give another 50 years, and what we call basic math will be
>indistinguishable from magic for large parts of the population.

Reminds me of the Asimov story "The Feeling of Power"

  http://downlode.org/Etext/power.html

How has no one mentioned this yet? - Don't blame me too much, I just copied and pasted from: http://downlode.org/Etext/power.html

The Feeling Of Power
by Isaac Asimov

Jehan Shuman was used to dealing with the men in authority on long-embattled earth. He was only a civilian but he originated programming patterns that resulted in self-directing war computers of the highest sort. Generals, consequently listened to him. Heads of congressional committees too.

There was one of each in the special lounge of New Pentagon. General Weider was space-burned and had a small mouth puckered almost into a cipher. He smoked Denebian tobacco with the air of one whose patriotism was so notorious, he could be allowed such liberties.

Shuman, tall, distinguished, and Programmer-first-class, faced them fearlessly.

He said, "This, gentlemen, is Myron Aub."

"The one with the unusual gift that you discovered quite by accident," said Congressman Brant placidly. "Ah." He inspected the little man with the egg-bald head with amiable curiosity.

The little man, in return, twisted the fingers of his hands anxiously. He had never been near such great men before. He was only an aging low-grade technician who had long ago failed all tests designed to smoke out the gifted ones among mankind and had settled into the rut of unskilled labor. There was just this hobby of his that the great Programmer had found out about and was now making such a frightening fuss over.

General Weider said, "I find this atmosphere of mystery childish."

"You won't in a moment," said Shuman. "This is not something we can leak to the firstcomer. Aub!" There was something imperative about his manner of biting off that one-syllable name, but then he was a great Programmer speaking to a mere technician. "Aub! How much is nine times seven?"

Aub hesitated a moment. His pale eyes glimmered with a feeble anxiety.

"Sixty-three," he said.

Congressman Brant lifted his eyebrows. "Is that right?"

"Check it for yourself, Congressman."

The congressman took out his pocket computer, nudged the milled edges twice, looked at its face as it lay there in the palm of his hand, and put it back. He said, "Is this the gift you brought us here to demonstrate. An illusionist?"

"More than that, sir. Aub has memorized a few operations and with them he computes on paper."

"A paper computer?" said the general. He looked pained.

"No, sir," said Shuman patiently. "Not a paper computer. Simply a piece of paper. General, would you be so kind as to suggest a number?"

"Seventeen," said the general.

"And you, Congressman?"

"Twenty-three."

"Good! Aub, multiply those numbers, and please show the gentlemen your manner of doing it."

"Yes, Programmer," said Aub, ducking his head. He fished a small pad out of one shirt pocket and an artist's hairline stylus out of the other. His forehead corrugated as he made painstaking marks on the paper.

General Weider interrupted him sharply. "Let's see that."

Aub passed him the paper, and Weider said, "Well, it looks like the figure seventeen."

Congressman Brant nodded and said, "So it does, but I suppose anyone can copy figures off a computer. I think I could make a passable seventeen myself, even without practice."

"If you will let Aub continue, gentlemen," said Shuman without heat.

Aub continued, his hand trembling a little. Finally he said in a low voice, "The answer is three hundred and ninety-one."

Congressman Brant took out his computer a second time and flicked it. "By Godfrey, so it is. How did he guess?"

"No guess, Congressman," said Shuman. "He computed that result. He did it on this sheet of paper."

"Humbug," said the general impatiently. "A computer is one thing and marks on a paper are another."

"Explain, Aub," said Shuman.

"Yes, Programmer. Well, gentlemen, I write down seventeen, and just undernea

marking it in some sort of universal language so that in the event civilization collapses and we revert to a new stone age some hapless hunter gatherer doesn't try to eat it
These guys have thought about that problem, and have come to a very good solution through visceral language.

marking it in some sort of universal language so that in the event civilization collapses and we revert to a new stone age some hapless hunter gatherer doesn't try to eat it
These guys have thought about that problem, and have come to a very good solution through visceral language.

One of the main problems with protecting this site is that it isn't a case of "touch the glowing rocks and drop dead" - and if you have that kind of scary message and someone messes around with the site and doesn't turn into a glowing skeleton - then the warnings will be ignored.

That is why so much of the focus is on education, telling people what is here and the types of dangers that the waste represents. The problem with an educational messages, of course, if that it is very hard to get across, especially if there is a language/cultural barrier.

This is a tough problem and a lot of people have put a lot of work into trying to solve it (that and the whole natural physical containment issue).

An interesting look into the warning system design process is here:

http://downlode.org/Etext/wipp/

http://downlode.org/etext/wipp/ http://www.wipp.energy.gov/library/PermanentMarker sImplementationPlan.pdf As presently planned, the Level II messages will state through text and pictographs that there is danger present, and the danger is below the land surface. Level III messages tell that radioactive and hazardous waste is buried, instruct persons not to dig or drill, indicate the depth of burial, when WIPP was closed, that the repository is intended to last at least 10,000 years, that there is a decreasing danger over time, and requesting that the messages be updated to the current language or languages in use (space will be left on the markers for this purpose). Level IV messages expand on the above topics, and also address the potential for releases through ground water, identify cancer as the primary risk, provide detailed information on radioactive and chemical constituents of the waste, provide a geologic cross-section with reasons for choosing the Salado Formation for the WIPP, describe the locations world-wide where other nuclear waste sites are located, and urge readers to seek out those other sites and ensure consistency of messages. To enhance the potential for comprehension of the messages, it is planned that they will be inscribed in seven languages: English, French, Spanish, Arabic, Russian, Chinese, and Navajo. This spread of languages representing different cultures and geographical regions will, it is hoped, potentially allow the markers to serve as "Rosetta Stones" for future populations, and thus increase the chance that they will be understood. Other means of improving possibilities for comprehension include the use of complementary diagrams and pictographs, use of simple words and short sentences, and through the testing of message comprehension with populations indigenous to areas speaking each language, as described in this plan. The proposed text of the Level II, III, and IV messages are included in Appendix PIC of the CCA. Pictographs proposed in Appendix PIC include the following. Level II Message: Graphic symbols of the human face expressing horror and terror; DOE/WIPP 04-3302 42 Graphic symbols of the human face expressing something nauseating or poisonous; and Trefoil and biohazard symbols. Level III Message: The pictographs described above, plus: Diagram conveying the danger of digging or drilling; Spatial perspective of the marking system to the underground repository; and Time elapse diagram from WIPP closure via north celestial pole migration, including faces showing disgust at closure to neutral at 10,000 years, to contentment well beyond 10,000 years, and decreasing size radioactive symbol. Level IV Message: The pictographs described above, plus: Detailed spatial perspective of the repository; Geologic cross section of the WIPP site and relative position of the repository within the formations; Periodic chart of the elements, identifying the major radioactive and nonradioactive elements present in waste buried at the WIPP site; Azimuths of the bright stars Vega, Arcturus, Sirius, and Canopus as they rise above the horizon at the time of WIPP closure, allowing calculation of the time of closure; and World map showing the locations where other radioactive wastes are buried. Drawings of these pictographs are shown in CCA Appendix PIC.

Here's a link: Supertoys Last All Summer Long

There is a startling irony in the fact that Spielberg has chosen to "adapt" so many Philip K. Dick works to film, as PKD himself -- like Orwell -- was only too aware of the power of language and literature to serve a malign state. In a 1978 speech, How to Build a Universe That Doesn't Fall Apart Two Days Later, in discussing his struggle to define 'reality', he stated:

But the problem is a real one, not a mere intellectual game. Because today we live in a society in which spurious realities are manufactured by the media, by governments, by big corporations, by religious groups, political groups -- and the electronic hardware exists by which to deliver these pseudo-worlds right into the heads of the reader, the viewer, the listener. Sometimes when I watch my eleven-year-old daughter watch TV, I wonder what she is being taught. The problem of miscuing; consider that. A TV program produced for adults is viewed by a small child. Half of what is said and done in the TV drama is probably misunderstood by the child. Maybe it's all misunderstood. And the thing is, Just how authentic is the information anyhow, even if the child correctly understood it? What is the relationship between the average TV situation comedy to reality? What about the cop shows? Cars are continually swerving out of control, crashing, and catching fire. The police are always good and they always win. Do not ignore that point: The police always win. What a lesson that is. You should not fight authority, and even if you do, you will lose. The message here is, Be passive. And -- cooperate. If Officer Baretta asks you for information, give it to him, because Officer Baretta is a good man and to be trusted. He loves you, and you should love him.

... The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words. George Orwell made this clear in his novel 1984. But another way to control the minds of people is to control their perceptions. If you can get them to see the world as you do, they will think as you do. Comprehension follows perception. How do you get them to see the reality you see? After all, it is only one reality out of many. Images are a basic constituent: pictures. This is why the power of TV to influence young minds is so staggeringly vast. Words and pictures are synchronized. The possibility of total control of the viewer exists, especially the young viewer. TV viewing is a kind of sleep- learning.

His second preoccupation, after 'what is reality?', is the question of 'what is the authentic human?', and the definition he gives is eerily relevant today, as we face appalling evidence of state-sanctioned torture and endless murder, thievery and deception by governments we are indoctrinated to trust. As PKD imagines Nixon's fortune cookie might have read, "DEEDS DONE IN SECRET HAVE A WAY OF BEING FOUND OUT":

The authentic human being is one of us who instinctively knows what he should not do, and, in addition, he will balk at doing it. He will refuse to do it, even if this brings down dread consequences to him and to those whom he loves. This, to me, is the ultimately heroic trait of ordinary people; they say no to the tyrant and they calmly take the consequences of this resistance. Their deeds may be small, and almost always unnot

What's really interesting is all the research into how to keep future generations out. It's presumed that they won't speak the same language and won't even know how to translate anymore. It's also assumed that none of the instutions or governments of today will still be around.

There was a report by Sandia National Laboratories titled "Expert Judgement on Markers to Deter Inadvertent Human Intrusion into the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant" that discussed this very thing. It's a terribly interesting read. Some of the best excerpts can be found here.

No, I'm serious about the scary hills. Except that they're called Menacing Earthworks, and they last longer than the current language, and they're designed to isolate radioactive waste for ten thousand years.

...some big scary hills and signs intended to outlast the current civilization and language on top of the holes.

Yeah, it's a little weird.

"The Feeling of Power" Isaac Asimov, 1957

I'll readily admit, I had to google for the meaning behind your post. Here's some info for those more lazy.

The spiel mentioned above is the message that the Yucca Mountain design is intended to convey to future civilizations. Namely to those that show up 10K+ years from now. (Yucca being the designated site for the United States' Radioactive waste. It will be quite hazardous for an amazingly long amount of time.) The text is not really supposed to be an inscription per say, but simply the overall concept behind the structure of the entire complex.

The original research was done by Sandia national labs. A significant portion of the document can be found here.
Madcap googling resulted in an easy to read summary here. May god have mercy on the poor soul that gets slashdotted.

BTW Tackhead, kudos on the obscure (?) reference. Forced me to learn. =)


--LordPixie

You're thinking of ProjectX, which was renamed HotSauce. If I remember correctly, it was a "fly through" of spheres in fake 2D, each sphere representing a site (and surrounded by smaller spheres representing linked sites). As you approached a satellite sphere, you would begin to see its links come into view....and so on, ad infinitum.

Here's one link I found in Google "apple hotsauce browser."

I miss Frank Zappa. His speech to Congress was a classic. Check it out.

This reminds me of an excellent Isaac Asimov story. I think he foresaw our reactions to the history of computation quite well.

Not for anyone running IE5 for MacOS (often described as the best browser yet). And before anyone accuses me of being a Mac weenie, I run the MacOS on my SuSE Linux box using Mac-on-Linux, so I can use things like IE5, Adobe Photoshop and BBEdit.

Not that it really matters; it's probably the same picture that I have here.

--