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A Physicist with the Air Force

An anonymous submitter - anonymous because of the database crash that wiped out several hours of data today, sigh - sent in this tale about the duties of a physicist during World War II.

221 comments

  1. That explains it! by Robber+Baron · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    ...anonymous because of the database crash that wiped out several hours of data today...


    Oh so THAT'S why my karma is now 105,000!

    --

    You're using her as bait, Master!

    1. Re:That explains it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wouldn't have happened if they'd used a proper database. SAP DB is OSS now, and they're using MySQL??!!

    2. Re:That explains it! by seann · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      oh yah, coincidence that they just completly changed backends of SlashCode has *nothing* to do with mySQL crashing. Infact, if they would of used another database, NOTHING would of went wrong!

      Slashdot! when will you learn! Man I thought you guys were smart, apparently your susposed to be using something different!

      --
      I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
  2. Typical techer by John+Guilt · · Score: 1

    ...but he neglected to mention which house---sounds like a scurve to me....

    This all was probably necessary, but it's much better when you can have this kind of fun in peacetime.

    1. Re:Typical techer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ricketts? hah! did you see all those transactions involving alcohol? if this occured after the north houses were built, i would definitely peg this guy as a pageboy.

      page house forever!
      [posted from 054 moore]

    2. Re:Typical techer by Once&FutureRocketman · · Score: 2

      Silly frosh! Grad turkeys don't live in the houses, although I suppose he might have been a social member.

      --

      "Research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing." -- Wernher von Braun

  3. Don't ride the bomb... by mikeage · · Score: 4, Funny
    From the article:

    At the pilot's insistence (I will not repeat his heated words), I dislodged the target by jumping on it while hanging from a bomb-bay rack and wearing a parachute, just in case.

    For those who didn't read the article (after all, if you did, this comment is worthless to you), he's talking about a training "dummy aircraft" for gunners to practice shooting at that didn't drop from the bomber that was carrying, and jammed in the bomb bay, preventing the doors from closing (which meant they couldn't land). Quite a hilarious mental picture if you ask me ;)

    --
    -- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
    1. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by Skyshadow · · Score: 1
      Quite a hilarious mental picture if you ask me

      I think it was probably more of a "look back on this some day and laugh" sort of issue. At the time, I think the prospect of being unable to land would have been strict brown trousers time.

      --
      Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
    2. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by mikeage · · Score: 1

      I think it was probably more of a "look back on this some day and laugh" sort of issue. At the time, I think the prospect of being unable to land would have been strict brown trousers time.

      Whaddya mean? When I was your age, airplanes didn't _have_ landing gear...

      --
      -- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
    3. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by warlock · · Score: 2, Funny

      Heh... that reminded me of the ending of Dr. Strangelove. Only it wasn't a dummy target, it was a nuke. Oh, and he wasn't wearing a parachute. Not that it would matter if he did anyway.

    4. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by mcspock · · Score: 1

      Similar to the ending of Doctor Strangelove, indeed.

      --
      -- Patience is a virtue, but impatience is an art.
    5. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by blang · · Score: 2

      That's what struck me, too. I'm trying to remember the name of the actor who rode that bomb. It sounds like a proverb or something. Slim Pickens or something like that.

      --
      -- Another senseless waste of fine bytes.
    6. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by QuMa · · Score: 1

      peter sellers. imdb is your friend.

    7. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by blang · · Score: 1

      No, Peter Sellers had many other roles in the movie, but he did not ride the bomb. Thanks for the hint though, didn't think of imdb.

      --
      -- Another senseless waste of fine bytes.
    8. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by mmol_6453 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Interesting relationship:

      In the movie, Slim Pickens (here for reference) is the guy who causes the atomic bomb to drop from the plane. (Jumping up and down on the bomb was one of his attempts.)

      In reality, Alex Green(writer of the article), jumped up and down on a plane trailer to get it out of the towing plane. Of course, the more interesting part is the fact that Alex also helped make the equipment that would cause the real atomic bombs to be dropped properly.

      --
      What's this Submit thingy do?
    9. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed, it was slim pickens riding the bomb. James Earl Jones was the bombadier. Peter Sellers was the president, the lieutenant, and dr. strangelove.

    10. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by Maj.+Kong · · Score: 2

      Goddamn them Rooskies, shearing the teleflex drive cable with that SAM. I got them doors open and hared lips on Bear Creek.

      Waaaaaahhhooooo!

      Maj. Kong (dec'd)

      --

      Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.
    11. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by glumchum · · Score: 1

      My first thought was of the scene in Dr. Strangelove where Slim Pickens was sitting on the bomb in the bomb bay.

    12. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by jazman_777 · · Score: 1

      Slim Pickens with an absolute certainty.

      --
      Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
    13. Re:Don't ride the bomb... by QuMa · · Score: 1

      Doh, got too smug with myself, I forgot to actually think :) .. it was ofcourse Sterling Hayden

  4. A great way to do business... by mikeage · · Score: 2
    Our streamlined procedures took advantage of the fact that officers had a monthly liquor allowance but enlisted men did not. To secure a special slide rule, the requesting officer would pay with two bottles.

    Yeah! I was born too late... ~sigh~

    --
    -- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
    1. Re:A great way to do business... by markmoss · · Score: 2
      Of course, if liquor was what you're most interested in, too bad you weren't in the Soviet Air Force. According to the book by a Soviet pilot who defected with his MIG-25 (Belenko?), the hydraulics system of that plane was run open loop with pure alcohol. That is, when they fueled the plane, they'd also fill a large tank with alcohol, and it would pour out during the flight. The ground crews were usually drunk (and any officers and pilots with insufficient self-discipline, also), but mainly bottles of that alcohol became the "currency" to get your name moved to the top of the waiting list for an apartment, to get maintenance done once you had an apartment, or to buy things on the black market. Finally, an auditor wondered why the jet fuel and hydraulic fluid consumption didn't match -- so they dumped large quantities of kerosene out in the woods...


      America in WWII temporarily became a mostly socialist system -- and liquor used for bribes is a good example of how things get done in socialism.

  5. MySQL by WasterDave · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    There was a post over to a MySQL vs Postgres flame fest once (on phpbuilder, iirc) that stated that while MySQL was prone to falling over every now and then, it had never lost any data. It guess that's the end of that one then.

    Does it look like RedHat have made the right choice with postgres then?

    Dave

    --
    I write a blog now, you should be afraid.
    1. Re:MySQL by brunes69 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Postgres is much better than MySQL for MANY reasons, so many in fact I fail to see why people still champion MySQL...

      1)Postgres is SQL-92 compliant, and supports normal DB syntax like nested selects, transactions, etc. MySQL doesn't.

      2)Postgres has a much more robust API for devolpers

      Postgres is ENTIRELY Free software, and is only licensed under the GPL, unlike MySQL, which has a commercial version, and the GPL version, and the closed source version, of which the GPL version is always behind.

      Sure, MySQL may have a bit of an edge on speed, but not by much. And when you take into account all the functionality it lacks, I don't know why anyone would shoose to limit themselves so much by using it.

    2. Re:MySQL by GypC · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Because it has a better name :P

    3. Re:MySQL by MSG · · Score: 2

      Now look at the later comparison, titled "Open Source Databases: As The Tables Turn".

      Both of the comparisons that have been done on phpbuilder.net have put PostgreSQL ahead on heavily loaded sites (like slashdot). MySQL's lead has always really been connection times. However, it's a total flop under many concurrent connections.

    4. Re:MySQL by teg · · Score: 2


      Postgres is ENTIRELY Free software, and is only licensed under the GPL, unlike MySQL, which has a commercial version, and the GPL version, and the closed source version, of which the GPL version is always behind.



      Your statements are not correct:

      1. PostgreSQL is not published under the GPL, but under a BSD license.
      2. MySQL releases their standard releases as GPL now - they're not lagging behind a commercial product. You can however buy a non-GPL version if you want, as there is a single company owning the code (or having rights to it).


      That said, I much prefer PostgreSQL - good transaction support (no switching of table types), subselects, foreign keys, better performance under load, triggers etc. are just some of the reason why it's a better database.

      (Disclaimer: I work for Red Hat, which is selling a version of PostgreSQL.)

    5. Re:MySQL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you, jackass.

    6. Re:MySQL by Cyn · · Score: 1

      My information could be somewhat wrong or out of date - but if I'm not mistaken, one thing that postgresql yet lacks that mysql has is replication - and for a site like slashdot which is probably running multiple mysql databases, that's mightily important.

      --
      cyn, free software and *nix operating systems enthusiast.
  6. Sheesh by wbav · · Score: 1

    Nonetheless, the personnel officer at the Washington, DC, area discharge center wrote the words "no active duty" on my discharge papers. That characterization nearly got me reinducted, and it disqualified me from the GI Bill. This last injustice has, however, since been rectified. On 7 December 2000, I received from Randolph Air Force Base in Texas a revised discharge "from active duty," entitling me, at age 81, to the benefits of the GI Bill.

    At least it seems that the army finally got things together.

    --

    =================
    Unix is very user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.
  7. Good memory by Traxton1 · · Score: 1

    I like hearing stories like this, and this one is no exception, but I must commend this guy on his memory and detail after 56 years. Hehe, notice how he said "And then I came up with a way to count the gunner's score" or some such quote, then says about how someone else was the group leader? (DuMond?) Maybe not everything he said is true...

    1. Re:Good memory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having talked to several WWII vets, most of those that are in good health have very impressive memories of the war. I think this is reasonable, the war was a "big" deal for them, it was different, and most WWII vets were highly motivated to get the job done so they could go home.

      My dad remembers his WWII participation much better than what he did last year. Probably because it was more significant.

  8. Having Fun by Alien54 · · Score: 2
    In our first launch from a bomb bay, the target got jammed against the tow plane's fuselage in such a way as to prevent the bomb-bay doors from closing. So we couldn't land. At the pilot's insistence (I will not repeat his heated words), I dislodged the target by jumping on it while hanging from a bomb-bay rack and wearing a parachute, just in case. After that experience, we mounted the target externally and soon had a usable offset tow-target system.

    Let's face it, probably the most fun most scientists have is in the middle of a war. If nothing else, it makes for great drinking stories, and it is often easier to get things done.

    - - -
    Radio Free Nation
    is a news site based on Slash Code
    "If You have a Story, We have a Soap Box"
    - - -

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
    1. Re:Having Fun by Tekgno · · Score: 1

      Scientists always have more fun in the middle of a war, they just have to convince somebody that what they are doing is capable of dispatching the enemy.

      The next big war should be fun though, mayeb I could try and get a job researching partical beam weaponry etc.

  9. Inside a Pysicist's Brain by mr.+phantastik · · Score: 1
    What really went on...

    "Lets see...if I divide the mass of this, by the volume of that, multiply by the 'Q' factor of this approach vector, ofcourse keeping in mind the varible wind density...ahhh ha! yes! I'VE FOUND THE VELOCITY OF A GERMAN!"


    ***********Disclimer************
    This was meant to be in no way offensive to Germany, or it's people: the Germans.
    One can easily find the velocity of Americans by simply substituting the 'Q' factor with the square root of 5.2

  10. Slide Rule Club by Dr.+Dew · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At first I thought he was kidding about the slide rule club - I guess we're this generation's equivalent.

    It's a little sobering to think of these engineering problems in their human context - even ignoring the fact that he's talking about bombers, it's striking to think that they had enough data to calculate 70-to-1 fighter-to-B29 kill ratios on rear attacks and 3-to-1 kill ratios on front attacks.

    The opportunity to make adjustments to decisions as theoretical data are replaced by empirical data is exciting and rewarding. But I'm glad my adjustments don't have an immediate impact with respect to people living and dying.

  11. Payment: Old Granddad! by hyrdra · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is an article which really makes me appriciate what we have today. If someone today told me I had to perform computations on a slide-rule while fending from enemy attack, I would think they're joking. But this is what they actually went through.

    My favorite line of the entire article (in reference to the fabrication of slide rules used in the missions):

    But, to avoid paperwork and delivery delays, I chose to have them made at the Harmon Field sheet-metal shop on Guam. At that time, there wasn't much combat damage to B-29s. So the repair crews readily gave up some of their beach time for a few bottles of Old Granddad.

    Yep, things we're certainly different back then!

    --


    "I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
    1. Re:Payment: Old Granddad! by J.J. · · Score: 1

      Heh, not that different. I'd be willing to bet that the enlisted troops at the Fab shop on Guam would still do you a few favors for a bottle or two of 'Ole Granddad'

    2. Re:Payment: Old Granddad! by BigBlockMopar · · Score: 2

      If someone today told me I had to perform computations on a slide-rule while fending from enemy attack, I would think they're joking. But this is what they actually went through.

      Where I used to work, we had a cranky old curmudgeon of an engineer. He was great fun; he knew how to use AutoCAD, but he hated it. Every time Windows would BSoD on him, out would come the slide rule from its padded case. And he was an artist with it.

      --
      Fire and Meat. Yummy.
    3. Re:Payment: Old Granddad! by nathanm · · Score: 2
      But, to avoid paperwork and delivery delays, I chose to have them made at the Harmon Field sheet-metal shop on Guam. At that time, there wasn't much combat damage to B-29s. So the repair crews readily gave up some of their beach time for a few bottles of Old Granddad.

      Yep, things we're certainly different back then!
      Actually, things are still somewhat like this in the military. I was in the Air Force for 6 years, and saw this kind of thing go on routinely. Nothing illegal, just the shop giving your work priority over others' because they owe you a favor, or you bought them a case of beer or something.
    4. Re:Payment: Old Granddad! by onepoint · · Score: 1

      Want to get your office moved, dibbs on some old furniture in your building, give the maintainence guys a case of beer on a hot day. You will be amazed at the goodies that they come by with as gifts.

      examples of what I have: Fire proof file cabinets, chairs, A huge wall mirror, and tons of other goodies.

      ONEPOINT

      --
      if you see me, smile and say hello.
  12. The last line of the article states . . . by m_chan · · Score: 1

    I've sometimes speculated that Shockley didn't like my Shoran slide rule and therefore went back to Bell Labs to invent the transistor that put us out of business.

    I do not work in and have had very little exposure to research science. I have read many stories, fiction and non, of competition providing motivation, even the base fuel to researchers in their endeavor to innovate. My grandfather, who was an optical engineer, related to me some stories of his time working in the optics research division of a very large and respected corporation during the fifties and sixties. Though they were on the same "team", the level of competition at that facility was as high as any he had ever seen in any of his experiences, including his time in the military and as an amateur and professional boxer.

    I would be interested to hear from people that are directly exposed to research sciences what role competition plays.

    1. Re:The last line of the article states . . . by JetJaguar · · Score: 1

      Well, these days the competition can stop you from getting funded. I've seen it happen a couple of times where somebody's competitor winds up being on the committee reviewing their latest grant proposal, and they don't get funded as a result.

      That, of course, would be one of the downsides to competition in science.

      --

      Shop Smart, Shop S-mart!

    2. Re:The last line of the article states . . . by guygee · · Score: 1

      Similar results are known to occur when a competitor shows up on your search committee, or ends up voting on your tenure.

    3. Re:The last line of the article states . . . by peter+hoffman · · Score: 2

      It is probably most succinctly summed up by this quote from Henry Kissinger:

      Politics in academia are so petty and vicious precisely because the stakes are so small.

      Btw: that quotation comes in various forms and is attributed to various people. I selected the first example I found.

  13. statistics by cosmo7 · · Score: 1

    the simplified statistics look like a trap; he treats them as a simple metric of the bomber's vulnerability to attack from different angles. i wonder if the bombers faced more frontal attacks early in their mission - before they had released their bombs and were still carrying lots of fuel.

    or perhaps less experienced pilots would tend to mount attacks from behind.

    the guy sounds very clever, but when i see statistics like that i start wondering about what they're really measuring.

    1. Re:statistics by jguthrie · · Score: 1
      cosmo7 wrote:
      the guy sounds very clever, but when i see statistics like that i start wondering about what they're really measuring.

      Umm, what difference does it make? If you're suffering more losses from frontal attacks, you need to beef up your frontal defense. It doesn't really matter why the losses are greater, the reaction is going to be the same.

    2. Re:statistics by guygee · · Score: 1



      (...) the simplified statistics look like a trap; he treats them
      as a simple metric of the bomber's vulnerability to attack from different
      angles


      (...) or perhaps less experienced pilots would tend to mount attacks
      from behind
      .

      I see your point. If the opposition's tactics were such that
      the likelihood of an attack from the rear as opposed to a frontal attack
      was greater than 70/3, then this would indicate that even more tactical protection
      was required for the rear, rather than the front. Time dependence of
      enemy tactics beginning with the initial engagment should also enter into
      the analysis, as you suggest.

    3. Re:statistics by guygee · · Score: 1

      That was supposed to be (70/3) to 1

    4. Re:statistics by cosmo7 · · Score: 1

      no, that's exactly my point.

      it's like finding a connection between watching a ball game and eating hotdogs and assuming that if you eat more hotdogs you'll see more ball games.

      yes, there's a ratio, but that doesn't prove there's a direct connection.

    5. Re:statistics by aiabx · · Score: 1

      This ratio may also be measuring the difficulty of shooting down a B-29 from different angles. Perhaps a big glass nose makes a frontal attack an easier kill for the Japanese. The solution is still the same, of course.
      -aiabx

      --
      Just this guy, you know?
    6. Re:statistics by sjames · · Score: 2

      the guy sounds very clever, but when i see statistics like that i start wondering about what they're really measuring.

      I seriously doubt that the brief summary of his work on that problem was the entire thought process or analysis.

      Considering that the analysis he did make apparently helped to alleviate the problem says something to be certain. There's also the possability that data was severely limited and all he could do is make a good experimental guess.

  14. Calculus Help! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The above post was obviously in jest, but I've got an Initial Value Problem here that's kicking my ass & if I post it too low noone will see it: If anyone who still remembers their diffeq, I'd appreciate the help:

    y''-y=e^x
    y(0)=1
    y'(0)=0

    the unforced solution is of course y=k1*e^-x + k2*e^x

    the best I've been able to do for the forced is
    y=1/2 * x * e^x
    which meets the equation but not the conditions :(
    I used to know this stuff, and I need to know it once again. I'm betting I'm missing something dumb on the forced.
    thanks in advance,
    AC

    1. Re:Calculus Help! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      k1 = 3/4
      k2 = 1/4

      y = k1*e^-x + k2*e^x + 1/2*x*e^x

      (solve the unforced problem, add a solution to the forced problem, substitute initial values to find constants)

    2. Re:Calculus Help! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      doh! Nearly had it. Thanks again.

    3. Re:Calculus Help! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      at least slashdot is good for something!
      homework help for nerds. solutions that matter.

  15. Re:Database crash? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is no need to do it at this volume. SQL is designed for big enterprises and handling request robustly. Same at work we use unix enviroment for simple tasks and swithing to win2000 if we need to
    do something more complicated and advanced. You don't buy spaceshuttle to fly around country!

  16. Shouldn't this be labeled "Ironic" by Nanookanano · · Score: 1

    After all, this tale of yesteryear is published in "Physics Today".

    (Oh wait, this isn't FARK. Nevermind.)

    --
    "..don't you eat that yellow snow."
  17. CT: What happened today? by jeffy124 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    anonymous because of the database crash that wiped out several hours of data today

    Are we going to see a post detailing today's slashdot database adventures? eg- what the probable cause was, what data was lost (besides an article about something being "always on"), what's being done to prevent such errorsi nthe future?

    --
    The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
    1. Re:CT: What happened today? by krogoth · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Well, according to the local conspiracy theorists that will only happen when there is no problem (like the router non-problem)

      --

      They that quote Benjamin Franklin on liberty and safety deserve neither.
    2. Re:CT: What happened today? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really like how my who cares post got marked offtopic in like 5 minutes, and the original post I replied to took like a day to get modded down.

      I submit that the moderation system is broken. Metamoderation isn't helping, or not enough people are doing it. Maybe we need metametamoderation. I don't know, but if it doesn't get fixed, and these same retards keep getting to moderate, I'm going to stop reading this website.

  18. It was ME! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was the supposed "anonymous" submitter of this story. But alas, I cannot divulge my identity due to the DMCA.

  19. Re:Yamato... by Weh · · Score: 1

    no that was admiral Yamamoto, this is the original battleship Yamato.

  20. So, they're hackers... by Rimbo · · Score: 3, Funny

    And I especially note this one:

    ``Requests for special slide rules grew. To respond quickly, I set up a paperwork-free design and production service. Our streamlined procedures took advantage of the fact that officers had a monthly liquor allowance but enlisted men did not. To secure a special slide rule, the requesting officer would pay with two bottles. I would pass these contributions along to the enlisted members of the 949th Topographical Company, who did the drafting, calculations, and reproductions. Somehow our service enjoyed a de facto priority second only to the production of mission maps.''

    My God...it's the grandfather of "Free as in Beer!" :)

    1. Re:So, they're hackers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, hackers break into computer systems. These were scientists. Are you also implying the idea of free stuff being cool is new with Linux. Get a grip hippie asshole.

    2. Re:So, they're hackers... by Rimbo · · Score: 2

      "No, hackers break into computer systems."

      Uhm...no.

      I am a hacker, but I do not break into computer systems, or do anything illegal of any kind for that matter. Perhaps you were thinking of "crackers?"

    3. Re:So, they're hackers... by TeraCo · · Score: 1
      Just ask the editor of practically any news paper out there what a hacker is.


      Then ask them what a cracker is.


      You might find it enlightening.

      --
      Not Meta-modding due to apathy.
    4. Re:So, they're hackers... by The+Mayor · · Score: 2

      Anyone remember a day when crackers were called hackers, and there was no distinction between the two that resulted from intentions? Yes, long before crackers were crackers, they were hackers. And hackers didn't mind such a distinction. You see, most people didn't write about us.

      -sigh-

      --
      --Be human.
    5. Re:So, they're hackers... by duffbeer703 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Please do the world a favor and hack off your balls with a meat cleaver, that way there is absolutely no chance of you reproducing.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    6. Re:So, they're hackers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please do the world a favor and hack off your head with a chainsaw. That way, not only is there absolutely no chance of you reproducing, but we won't have to listen to your brainless bullshit either.

    7. Re:So, they're hackers... by pma · · Score: 1

      "I am a hacker, but I do not break into computer systems"

      Are you trying to say you're not a very good hacker?

  21. Power? by term0r · · Score: 1

    I wonder how many times more powerful our modern day computers are compared to this articles "computerized slide rule"? :)

    1. Re:Power? by Araneas · · Score: 1

      Not very if at all for the very specialized tasks these devices were designed for. Especially if you take boot times, power requirements and field service ability into account.

  22. Thats the power of Open Source! by cybrthng · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Raise your carma today, upgrade to the untested and unproved slashcode 2.2 and be buggier then any other program out there.

    i hope there are no security risks with 2.2... but oh well. you gotta upgrade someday.

    so when will slashdot be themeable so i can choose different ugly colors? :)

    1. Re:Thats the power of Open Source! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's "karma", numbnut.

  23. Re:Typical techer ... well actually by Irie · · Score: 1

    look in your history of tech at the time of ww2 ... they actually did rotate pilots and flight engineers through 8 week long classes here on campus, and housed them in dabney and page by god too, or maybe it was blacker too i forget exactly which of the houses. teaching flight crews dead reckoning and celestial nav, yup you didnt realize the tech was a trade school didya, look again it still is but for engineers and academic researchers :)

    --
    use Signature::Witty;
  24. Lubrication? by sllort · · Score: 0

    Directly from the article:

    Lubricating with alcohol

    That is the best subject heading ever posted in a Slashdot article, ever.

    hof, baby.

    1. Re:Lubrication? by swordboy · · Score: 1

      Come on...

      We all know that alcohol makes the best social "lubricant".

      --

      Life is the leading cause of death in America.
  25. A Rant... by xtermz · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Please, in the interest of free speech, just don't read this if you feel the need to mod it down, otherwise read on...

    i am quite tired of some of the people on this site who are quick to criticize slashdot for having downtime. I am willing to bet these same people probably have not had to face a pissed off boss and manager breathing down your kneck while trying to revive a mission critical server that is "not supposed to fail".

    And these same people probably don't realize that halph your down time is for describing to your boss why some , very expensive mind you, servers that are "not supposed to fail" are in pieces on the floor.

    these same people, would probably hide in the corner mindless chanting 'all your base are belong to us' while hoping the men with the white coats dont come....

    thank you for your time

    mr xtermz

    --


    I lost my concept of community when my community lost all concept of me.
    1. Re:A Rant... by ncc74656 · · Score: 1
      i am quite tired of some of the people on this site who are quick to criticize slashdot for having downtime. I am willing to bet these same people probably have not had to face a pissed off boss and manager breathing down your kneck while trying to revive a mission critical server that is "not supposed to fail".

      And these same people probably don't realize that halph your down time is for describing to your boss why some , very expensive mind you, servers that are "not supposed to fail" are in pieces on the floor.

      They're probably the same schmucks who wouldn't sign off on the backup software, the preventive-maintenance items, or whatever that would've prevented the downtime in the first place. Been there, done that. In most places, they're called "bean counters."
      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    2. Re:A Rant... by iosphere · · Score: 1
      Please, in the interest of free speech, just don't read this if you feel the need to mod it down, otherwise read on...

      What kind of bullshit is that? That kind of statement should earn you -1 right off the top. If you have something that people want to hear you don't have to worry about being modded down (which is why this comment will probably end up at 0).

    3. Re:A Rant... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, really! I mean how do I know whether or not I want to mod it down until I've read it? And if I felt the need to mod it down *before* reading it, what difference would not reading it make? I'm just gonna mod it down anyway!

  26. credit please by hugecrow · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    "anonymous because of the database crash that wiped out several hours of data today"

    yeah i posted that artical, give me credit

    please update....hehe

    --
    Enjoy your job, make lots of money, work within the law. Choose any two.
    1. Re:credit please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You automatically lose credit for misspelling the word "article". In fact, I don't think you even submitted it, since you obviously lack the intelligence to understand what it is you're submitting.

      Also, gratuitious use of the retarded term "hehe" earns you a minus-one. Sorry, bub.

  27. No Page by John+Guilt · · Score: 1

    ...that's why they're called the "new" houses---I think they were built around 1960, in the post-Sputnik funding wave.

  28. The reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The reason people hassle /. for having downtime, is that these are the same people that tell us that Linux is infalliable, and that Windows NT/2000 suffers continuous downtime. If you can't walk the walk, don't talk the talk.

  29. Not quite graphitics... by Giant+Hairy+Spider · · Score: 2

    This reminds me of an excellent Isaac Asimov story. I think he foresaw our reactions to the history of computation quite well.

    --

    ---
    You'd be surprised at the broadband connection available to things crawling around in your hair.
    1. Re:Not quite graphitics... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That really is an excellent story. I like another Asimov short called Entropy, about a computer that gains intelligence and eventually becomes God. It's wacky but provoking.

      Provoking. Similair in a way to most of the childish slashdot geek wankers that haunt this shithole.

  30. Next time, Microsoft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps if you used a Microsoft SQL server, you wouldn't have had this trouble. And if you did, you could have called and talked to a friendly, knowledgeable support person who would have you up and running in minutes.
    Live and learn.

    1. Re:Next time, Microsoft. by s2r · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Maybe its time to change that "sa" default password

      :)

  31. Funny with a Twist by Bluesee · · Score: 2

    The article was funny, and a good reminiscence, but:

    Shockley, Teller, and LeMay

    what an unholy trinity that is!

    Shockley, the Nobel Prize winner who determined to devote his life to eugenics;

    Teller, the brilliant scientist who pushed the DoD further into the realm of "The Super", and beyond;

    and, finally, LeMay (brilliantly portrayed by George C. Scott in "Dr. Strangelove"), the hawk's hawk who would stop at nothing to achieve global superiority for his country, even at the expense of the American people.

    These men, while they performed great deeds in their lifetimes, are to me a good example of how excessive hubris in the scientific and technical arena can be a very dangerous thing, indeed. None of these men can be considered Great Men, in my opinion, because they wandered from the path of integrity and truth in their zealous pursuit of technology for technology's sake.

    But the article makes for a great read, and I'm sure in their day these men were admired and respected. I have the advantage of hindsight, and hope that we can all learn from these men how, for some vicious mole of nature in them, even the greatest of men are prone to fall!

    --
    SDMI: Finally! Music that won't rip or burn! Brought to you by the fine folks at RIAA.
    1. Re:Funny with a Twist by handorf · · Score: 2

      What? You don't think we should follow Teller's idea and use H-Bombs (about 6 in the 20MT range, IIRC) to give Alaska a really kickass bay?

      Also IIRC, isn't there still some controversy as to if it was really Teller's design for the Super? There was a fair ammount of evidence that the design was really Ulam's and Teller stole it, wasn't there?

      Of course, IMHO, Teller is simply a nutbar, but that's just me. Atomics for civil engineering my arse!

      --
      -- IANAEG - I am not an elder god.
    2. Re:Funny with a Twist by Bluesee · · Score: 2

      yah, Teller also stole all the Star Wars funding from, um, Woodruff...

      Here.

      So I wouldn't put it past him. A nasty man...

      --
      SDMI: Finally! Music that won't rip or burn! Brought to you by the fine folks at RIAA.
    3. Re:Funny with a Twist by shaunak · · Score: 1

      "None of these men can be considered Great Men, in my opinion, because they wandered from the path of integrity and truth in their zealous pursuit of technology for technology's sake. "

      Wandered from the path ... and truth ...
      Hmm, and why should they have stayed on it?
      It was their choice and they made it.
      If you want to bitch, fine, but I'd rather see their achievements.

      I'm sure you've strayed from the aforementioned path as well.

      --
      -Shaunak.
    4. Re:Funny with a Twist by Bluesee · · Score: 1

      They should have stayed on it if they truly wanted to be Great Men. That they have achieved great things is indisputable... aw, hell, I think you missed my point...

      My point had to do with the hubris that came from achieving great things. One must, by the evidence of the actions of these three, come to believe in one's own infallibility because they were responsible for a great discovery or invention. I tend to look up to scientists as transcending the pettiness of the common man, to hold goals generally loftier than self-interest. Each one of these men were in a position of power and each abused that power.

      I think you must think I am just jealous, that what I am saying is a case of sour grapes, but you're wrong. I am trying to point out the errors of the past so that we don't repeat them, but I am afraid that we will, in the field of genetics especially. The lesson of Frankenstein and yes, Jurassic Park is the lesson I am referring to here.

      In my career, I have endeavoured to not lie about scientific or engineering results to get funding, and if I ever were to do that, I am sure it wouldn't sit easily on my conscience. I don't think these men had that 'problem'.

      --
      SDMI: Finally! Music that won't rip or burn! Brought to you by the fine folks at RIAA.
  32. Database Meltdown - Gory Details, Please! by BigBlockMopar · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    anonymous because of the database crash that wiped out several hours of data today...

    Hey, Cowboy Kneel, Commander Taco, etc.. at least some of your users want to know all about the gory details of how and why the database melted down.

    We need you to tell us. We live vicariously through you.

    Hope the downtime was the worst of the damage.

    --
    Fire and Meat. Yummy.
  33. not the end of the world by Mike+Schiraldi · · Score: 2

    anonymous because of the database crash that wiped out several hours of data today, sigh

    That's okay. Losing Slashdot for the day was bad, but it's worth it when you picture all the trolls and karma whores desperately trying to take advantage of the second chance to get first post on the Mac metadata story.

    "Gah! I click Reply and it goes back to the main page! But i need to post, it says 0 comments! Reply! Reply! Augghhh!"

    1. Re:not the end of the world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      uh...how did you do that little symbol thingie?

      w£¥ S

  34. Army Air Corp, not Air Force by radartroop · · Score: 1

    Right, it's nit-picking, but this fellow should know better: after all, he was there! The Air Force was formed in '47 out of the Army Air Corp. My Dad joined the Army in '42 or '43 and was assigned to the Air Corp... He seperated along with about ten million other guys not long after VJ day

    1. Re:Army Air Corp, not Air Force by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      It was only the Army Air Corps up until June 20, 1941. After that it was the Army Air Forces, known informally as the Air Force will before '47.

  35. BTHS by Kryptolus · · Score: 1

    " This war story begins in 1935 at Brooklyn Technical High School, where my physics teacher, Simon Weissman, introduced me to most of the physics that I was eventually to use in World War II."

    Don't let this article give you a favorable opinion of Brooklyn Tech.
    It reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllly is a bad school. I don't know why it's still a NY "Specialized High School."(Did they mean to call it "Special" High School)

    Anyhow, I got one more year of suffering in brooklyn tech left.
    Somebody shoot me point blank with a sniper rifle.

    --

    --
    Violators will be prosecuted and prosecutors will be violated.
    1. Re:BTHS by Araneas · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Shooting you point blank with a sniper rifle is extremely inefficient. A high velocity slug is likely to pass right through you without losing much of its kinetic energy. What you want is something like a .45 hollow point. Not as much muzzle energy but superior energy transfer due to slug expansion. Oh and remember to stick it in your mouth so you don't flinch and miss.

  36. The Army way... by CoachS · · Score: 1
    The Army Air Corps during WWII was notoriously disorganized with paperwork. My uncle flew a B-17 during the war and he still has the receipt from when he turned the plane in after the war. He says "I know how the Army works and they're going to come looking for that plane one of these days."

    "We fill out this form in triplicate. One we keep, one we send to headquarters and one we destroy so the Russians won't get it."

    -Coach-

    --
    Perhaps the world's greatest tragedy is that ignorance is not impotence.
  37. Air Force? by Negadecimal · · Score: 1

    The Air Force was technically the Army Air Corp during WWII... but who's counting :)

    The article reminds me a lot of "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman!".

    1. Re:Air Force? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, for the majority of the Second World War it was the "United States Army Air Forces". This organization was on the same major command level as "Army Ground Forces".

      Of course, everyone called it the "Air Force".

      I myself am a 3rd generation Air Force officer.

  38. i would have thought... by tahpot · · Score: 1

    that this would make a good movie, not a good article on a physics site. Its got its share of action and war etc.

    I suppose it'd be a bit too intelectual for hollywood though.

    1. Re:i would have thought... by ethereal · · Score: 1

      I was thinking that it would make a good companion piece to Cryptonomicon - they both discussed men of thought thrown into the midst of WWII and prized for their intellect. OK, Cryptonomicon had a lot more stuff too, but just imagine the yarn that Stephenson could spin out of this guy's story :)

      --

      Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and

    2. Re:i would have thought... by Qrlx · · Score: 1

      After reading this article, I'm wondering why I stayed up for four nights reading Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson.

      In ten minutes this guy drops just as many names as Stephenson, and the -1 comments are just like the sex between the fat unix guy and America Shaftoe.


      Use the Preview Button! Check those URLs! Don't forget the http://!
  39. No Shit, Sherlock... by Guppy06 · · Score: 2

    "To facilitate the calculation, I developed a special slide rule that used the general principle of multiplying two quantities by mechanically adding distances proportional to their logarithms."

    He pretty much described right there the basic concept of any sliderule ever used by anybody. All that was needed was to figure out the trig formula and making the numbers different on a normal rule. And for this the Army Air Corps needed a PhD candidate? I didn't know they had PHBs that long ago.

    BTW: Is it my imagination or do we no longer need P tags?

    1. Re:No Shit, Sherlock... by HeghmoH · · Score: 1

      Interesting, though, that nobody else came up with it before this particular man did.

      Of course, I'm sure that with your towering intellect, you would have come up with it much more quickly, allowing our friend the writer to get on with whatever it is he was supposed to be doing.

      (Can you tell I really hate these "it's so obvious" posts?)

      --
      Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
    2. Re:No Shit, Sherlock... by Guppy06 · · Score: 2

      "Interesting, though, that nobody else came up with it before this particular man did."

      I was harping on that particular paragraph's wording. He seems to be claiming credit for the sliderule in general (something the author points out at the bottom of the article that has been in use since the 17th century or so).

      In today's terms, it would be like me saying "I developed a new, specialized computer for our B-2 bombers. It has a small hexadecimal LCD screen, a number pad, and four buttons, one each for addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. With it, the crews can enter one number, press the multiplication button, enter a second number and receive the product of those two numbers. For more complicated calculations, I've even inclucded a small memory for storing values."

    3. Re:No Shit, Sherlock... by Liquid(TJ) · · Score: 1
      To me, it read like he was just explaining the concept of the slide rule for readers whe don't know how they work.

      Developing these kinds of tools don't take intellegence, they're the product of ingenuity. None of those gunners cared about how the damn things worked from a mathmatical standpoint, all they cared about was that this baby did all the work in one step.

  40. incorrect simulation by kisrael · · Score: 3, Insightful

    After six weeks of data collection and statistical analysis, I completed my report. My analysis showed that, in attacks on our B-29s from the rear, it cost the enemy 70 lost fighter planes, on average, to shoot down one of our bombers. But in frontal attacks, the Japanese lost only three fighters for every B-29 they downed. This result differed starkly from the results of a massive combat simulation study, done back home, that had concluded that B-29s would be most vulnerable to attacks from behind! In light of the new findings, bomber formations and tactics were modified to bring greater firepower to bear against frontal attacks. These changes, together with some minor technical modifications, largely solved the problem

    Any guesses what they were doing wrong with the "massive combat simulation study"?

    --
    SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    1. Re:incorrect simulation by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 1
      "combat simulations" with real aircraft lack one thing: live ammo. You can't have live ammo drills with air-to-air combat, it's too dangerous (no kidding, you say) even with the .50 caliber machine guns and relatively inaccurate sights and cannons of the 40s.

      I'd guess that they based this on:
      a) the history of the other bombers of WWII, that took MANY more losses from the rear than from the front, as they had much more front-bearing defensive weaponry
      b) the japanese were used to making frontal attacks on the old bombers, and were better at avoiding the defensive weaponry. It's a reflex thing. If you've ever played a flight sim you know that it's much easier to stay on target when you're behind an enemy - but if you practice the frontal attacks, with double the closure speed, that's a huge advantage.
      c) Read some history of the Pacific air war sometime. The Japanese pilots were totally fearless, they didn't care if they died attacking bombers, because of the Samurai ethic, and that the B-29 was being used to bomb the home islands. By the time the B-29 showed up (late winter/spring 45) we were well into Japanese territory and it was a grave insult to them.

      -JW

    2. Re:incorrect simulation by Observer · · Score: 1
      Any guesses what they were doing wrong with the "massive combat simulation study"?

      To state the obvious, wrong assumptions that could only be properly tested in real combat. Don't forget that that there'd never been anything that heavy, fast, and long-range before, and that the development program had to be pushed through at an incredible tempo once the war started in the Pacific where such an aircraft was essential. It's not surprising that simulations didn't always get the right answers - what was critical was that the real-world results were accepted and acted on, rather than a having a lot of arguing with the simulations people fighting for "their" results.

      There's a lot of material available online about the plane. Try asking Google about "B-29" and combat and warbirds, and look at the warbirdsresourcegroup page near the top of the list.

    3. Re:incorrect simulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Failed to consider a dead pilot can't fly the plane, while huge holes in the tail only makes it harder to fly. Not impossible.

    4. Re:incorrect simulation by markmoss · · Score: 2
      Any guesses what they were doing wrong with the "massive combat simulation study"? Just a guess, but since they obviously couldn't let the gunners use real bullets when Americans were flying the fighters, they didn't properly figure how much easier it is to get the tail turrets onto a plane flying along behind you (usually less than 50 mph difference in speed), as compared to using the nose turret to hit a plane oncoming at about 900 mph relative velocity. On the other hand, any fighter pilot could tell them that from the tail he could keep a bomber in his sights until it went down or he ran out of ammo, while from a nose attack you were lucky to put a dozen rounds on target. Not enough to do real damage unless you got really lucky (e.g., through the windshield and into the pilots.)


      Or maybe they just failed to simulate desperate Japanese pilots using kamikaze tactics. From the tail, there was plenty of time to shoot an attacker down, from the nose it was probably too late by the time they locked on target. And a zero hitting head-on would either destroy the whole cockpit or shear a wing off if on target.

  41. The efficiency of a dictatorship by Bob_Robertson · · Score: 2, Interesting
    How very true, it is *much* easier to get things done in a dictatorship, if you're on the dictators good side.

    There's no question that the most effective and efficient form of "governance" is a benevolent dictatorship.

    Two problems: It's never benevolent for long, and it's never benevolent to dissent.

    It's also illustrative to consider the concept of "governance", and why efficient "governance" is a really lousy thing anyway.

    That's why the U.S. "government" is designed at its inception to be as inefficient as possible, and why it took four-score and seven years before someone was able to install an efficient "governance" under it. And that brought war.

    Bob-

    --
    The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
  42. Re:Inside a Physicist's Brain by Traxton1 · · Score: 1

    I believe you mean "Ze Germans"

  43. Oh hi ho and a bottle of rum by BierGuzzl · · Score: 2

    It's amazing what a little "alcohol lubrication" can do to speed up the production line!

  44. Re:Yamato... by jakdin · · Score: 1

    An older way to refer to Ancient Japan.

    Jak Din

    --
    "As I always say, why jack-off when you can jack-in!" - Plughead from "Circuitry Man" (1990)
  45. R. P. Feynman, Safe Cracker by mgarraha · · Score: 1

    You mean where he was at Los Alamos on the Manhattan Project, and he figured out how to open the combination locks on other people's desks? What a great story. I especially liked his interaction with the house locksmith.

  46. Great, just great.... by (H)elix1 · · Score: 1, Offtopic
    and here I thought I just got burned on a daily CVS build of Mozilla.... now nothing builds, my browsers horked from me trying to "fix" it when slash had the problem, and I'll have to re-set every cookie I blasted away.

    Thank god I did not think it was a kernel problem....

  47. backwards vulnerability wild ass guess by StandardDeviant · · Score: 3, Funny

    sign change error? ;-)

    (how many times, if you were a technical student, have you ever calculated a negative mass or something and realized it was a simple sign error somewhere in the middle of a pages-long computation?)

    1. Re:backwards vulnerability wild ass guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And better yet, how many times have you just erased the final minus sign from the mass?

      This based on the assumption that if the answer was correct the TA would not read through the calculations and see that you screwed them up in line 2.

  48. Your sig line by uptownguy · · Score: 1

    There's some good stuff at score level 1

    So true, so true.

    I would have modded up your comment for that sig. alone -- except I wasted all my mod points on the article that got "lost" today when Slashdot was up and down. (A good read, if unoriginal, read by the way about whether a wireless world and the changes it has already made to our social structures.)

    Ah well. Even with the bugs being worked out and the ever-present MS bashing, Slashdot is still the best place for consistantly insightful thoughts on the 'Net...

    --


    I would have to say that explosives are the most abused technology in all of history.
  49. Teller... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the article:

    This "turn computer" proved useful 50 years later, when Edward Teller asked me, in hindsight, to investigate whether a humane high-altitude "demonstration" detonation of an atomic bomb over Tokyo Bay would have been feasible.

    That was a really touching comment. I've often wondered how Teller (the father of the atomic bomb) felt about his necessary creation of a monster. Bless him.

  50. Flying tigers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    My favorite quote:


    Hobbs later served as president of the American Psychological Society.


    Sad that the tiger who provided such companionship to Calvin would one day finally go completely crazy.

    Anonymous cowards do too know how to spell, dammit.

  51. My grandpa trained people to shoot AA guns. by sideshow · · Score: 1

    He trained people to shoot the big ole guns that blasted planes out of the sky. Well they towed a dummy airplane behind a real one. Sometimes while praticing advanced manuvers the trainee would for getwhich plane he was shooting at and would give the pilot a heart attack.

    --

    Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.

  52. Re:Inside a Physicist's Brain by ethereal · · Score: 1

    An Austrian sparrow, or a Prussian sparrow?

    --

    Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and

  53. Re:my husband norman by kubrick · · Score: 1

    Hello Gladys.

    Here on Slashdot we use the Shift key. It produces UPPER CASE letters that you can start your sentences with!

    And yes, I know, IHBT.

    --
    deus does not exist but if he does
  54. Re:my husband norman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not to mention that little dot thingy, "."

  55. not really.. by Danse · · Score: 2

    What you say is somewhat true, but if you know why you're taking losses in a certain situation you're more likely to make the most effective adjustments.

    --
    It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
  56. Division of labor by Animats · · Score: 2

    This is an article which really makes me appreciate what we have today. If someone today told me I had to perform computations on a
    slide-rule while fending from enemy attack, I would think they're joking. But this is what they actually went through.


    It's not like the pilot had to fly and use a slide rule at the same time. The B-29 carried a crew of 10 to 14. Computational tasks were performed by the navigator, co-pilot, and bombardier.


    Pilot workload in today's warcraft is higher than it was back then. All those jobs are now done by one, or at most two, crew, along with multiple computers.

  57. Slide rules and related devices by Animats · · Score: 2
    From the pictures, it looks like there were some other features used, like 2D graphs with cursors ("nomograms"), which allowed the user to evaluate a function of two variables. One of them had multiple curved lines, indicating the evaluation of a function with three variables.

    Designing something usable in combat with hastily trained crews was a neat trick.

  58. Sounds like a dodged question to me... by badzilla · · Score: 1

    This "turn computer" proved useful 50 years later, when Edward Teller asked me, in hindsight, to investigate whether a humane high-altitude "demonstration" detonation of an atomic bomb over Tokyo Bay would have been feasible. The higher the detonation altitude, the less time the B-29 would have for turning away from the impending shock wave.

    OK this sounds scientifically correct - but what was the actual answer to Mr. Teller's question?

    --
    "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace." V.Stone, Microsoft Corporation
    1. Re:Sounds like a dodged question to me... by Tackhead · · Score: 3, Informative
      > what was the actual answer to Mr. Teller's question? [about whether or not the crew of a B-29 doing a high-altitude demonstration burst over Tokyo Bay would have been survivable]

      From the pilot's own account of the Nagasaki bombing:

      We removed our glasses after the first flash but the light still lingered on, a bluish-green light that illuminated the entire sky all around. A tremendous blast wave struck our ship and made it tremble from nose to tail. This was followed by four more blasts in rapid succession, each resounding like the boom of cannon fire hitting our plane from all directions.

      If that's what a bomb at 1640 feet feels like from 30000 feet and after turning away and hauling ass out of there as fast as possible, then there's... well... to be blunt, I see no effing way a B-29 could deliver a high-altitude demonstration burst and have survived, slide rule or not.

      (By way of reference, the service ceiling of a B-29 is around 33000 feet. Flying to 60000 feet simply wasn't an option with the technology at the time - and the B-29 was the only aircraft capable of lifting something as heavy as a nuke and flying it the required distance.)

      War isn't pretty. War isn't supposed to be pretty. The day war becomes pretty, we've all got problems.

      /me raises a glass to all veterans and all who supported them for jobs well done. Thanks.

    2. Re:Sounds like a dodged question to me... by Bearpaw · · Score: 2
      War isn't pretty. War isn't supposed to be pretty. The day war becomes pretty, we've all got problems.

      Read some of the US media descriptions of the Gulf War, or even better find some CNN footage from it. Not pretty, exactly, but most of them avoided as much of the ugly stuff as they could. They made it look like a video-game war. Granted, they were mostly just passing along the stuff spoon-fed to them by the Pentagon, but that's part of the problem, innit?

      Yup, we've all got problems.

    3. Re:Sounds like a dodged question to me... by farmhick · · Score: 1

      "War isn't pretty. War isn't supposed to be pretty. The day war becomes pretty, we've all got problems. "

      Remember the Star Trek episode when the Enterprise was "bombed" while in orbit around a planet that was "at war" with another planet in that solar system? It was all a computer simulation of what areas were destroyed, and how many would have been killed. Those people then went to a convenient chamber that killed them. So the politicians and military had the war to keep themselves in power, but didn't have to actually build weapons or repair damaged buildings and roads, or lose irraplaceable artwork. It was a very humane way to kill people that sounds very much like what you are warning against.

      --
      I have to stop wasting so much time reading Slashdot. It's interfering with my crystal meth addiction.
    4. Re:Sounds like a dodged question to me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When Teller asked the question he knew the answer:
      Doing it this way (high flying B29 dropping ballistic bomb exploding high) the crew won't surviv.
      That's exactly why he asked that question. Nobody can tell me that he doesn't know how to do it correct: Make the bomb explode low level out at sea or on a small island. Or, use a glide bomb. The brits had the before the war (and stoped R&D), the Germans had them and I would be very surprised if the Americans didn't have any or were unable to produce one. Or, simply use another, unmanned plane and fly it to shortly before the target with a manned plane (this was known as "Mistel"). I am sure, if I would think about this for another hour I would find more solutions how to show the Japs the power of the bomb. BTW, *before* the bomb the Japs offered to surrender, but wanted to keep the emperor. Since this waasn't unconditional, the U.S. used the two bombs. Afterwards, the Japs surrendered, but kept their emperor.

      Just to clear up any possible missundertsandings:
      The Germans and Japanese attacked. Therefore, it is right for the allied to kill 10 or even 100 axis persons to save one of their own. But is it right to kill 200000+ people to show your strength, to test the effects on masses of people and for private reasons?

    5. Re:Sounds like a dodged question to me... by Tackhead · · Score: 1
      > That's exactly why he asked that question. Nobody can tell me that he doesn't know how to do it correct: Make the bomb explode low level out at sea or on a small island. Or, use a glide bomb. The brits had the before the war (and stoped R&D), the Germans had them and I would be very surprised if the Americans didn't have any or were unable to produce one. Or, simply use another, unmanned plane and fly it to shortly before the target with a manned plane (this was known as "Mistel")

      (reposted because the moderators'll never see your post this late in the thread).

      I'm no expert, but I see two big problems here:

      1) Low-level *boom* out at sea or island -- hard to get the Japanese to see it in action. Also, a surface burst at sea would have made a bigger mess in terms of fallout -- as it was, there was relatively little fallout at Hiroshima and Nagasaki; it could have been much worse.

      2) Glide bombs. I see a big problem here, which was the weight of the bomb itself. The B-29, IIRC, was the only aircraft that could carry the bombs. A B-29 towing a glider would never have have made it because it would have run out of fuel (remember, no mid-air refueling!) before reaching Japan. (Maybe they could have turned around and ditched in the sea, to be picked up by a Catalina seaplane later, but it doesn't sound like my idea of a good time...)

      For that matter, building a glider that could carry the weight of the bomb would have been an extremely difficult task, even with a suitable towplane.

      > The Germans and Japanese attacked. Therefore, it is right for the allied to kill 10 or even 100 axis persons to save one of their own. But is it right to kill 200000+ people to show your strength, to test the effects on masses of people and for private reasons?

      There are no easy answers. I think Truman and the others had to deal with that for the rest of their lives.

      For what it's worth, we knew that the V-1 and V-2 and conventional bombing of London didn't sap British resolve. We knew that the firebombing of Dresden didn't sap German resolve. We knew that the Japanese military could (and often did) fight to the last man as we island-hopped through the Pacific. We knew that killing 100,000 Japanese overnight during one of the firebombings of Tokyo hadn't brought about surrender.

      Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't, from the standpoint of destruction of men and materiel, that much worse than what we'd been dishing out all along -- what was different was that it was "one plane, one bomb, one city", and the unspoken implication "...for however many cities you have left, until you give it up." The new types of injuries (flash/radiation burns/blindness) from the new weapon were also something that could not be demonstrated in a nonlethal "demonstration".

      And given that there was no unconditional surrender after the first bomb, I can see why they went for #2.

      I'm not saying that dropping the second bomb was "right", nor that all the motives for the second bombing were "pure" - only that the decision was understandable.

      One good thing came out of it. After the entire world had seen the horror of two small bombs in 1945, the combatants on both sides of the Cold War knew they had damn good reasons never to use the weapons again -- reasons that might not have looked as strong had they only been numbers on paper. Sometimes man has to learn from his experience, and in this sense, we all got off pretty lucky.

  59. Extreme programming, you kids by soya · · Score: 1

    ... in my days we did extreme physics!

    --


    NEVER voluntarily put a project you work on under the GNU umbrella, -- Ulrich Drepper
  60. Databases by sql*kitten · · Score: 2
    - anonymous because of the database crash that wiped out several hours of data today, sigh


    Michael, SAP/DB is free, and transaction safe, and hence recoverable if the machine crashes. Might be worth checking it out. It's GPL, too.


    Cheers!

  61. DB crash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you were using the master-slave replication that's built into MySQL, you wouldn't have this problem.

  62. LeMay and HTML by dingbat_hp · · Score: 1

    Admit it. Who bought The HTML book because:

    • It was just a good HTML book
    • You always liked her Usenet .sigs
    • Having nuclear weapons will always appeal to geeks

  63. Nuke by Syberghost · · Score: 2

    I found it interesting that he'd done computations regarding whether or not we could have done a "demonstration" bombing, and that it wasn't feasible.

    The B-29 over Nagasaki was barely far enough away to avoid destruction as it was; if we'd done the "demonstration" so many Slashdotters occasionally complain about, it would have been a suicide mission.

    1. Re:Nuke by Bearpaw · · Score: 2
      The B-29 over Nagasaki was barely far enough away to avoid destruction as it was; if we'd done the "demonstration" so many Slashdotters occasionally complain about, it would have been a suicide mission.

      Yup. That doesn't rule it out, of course -- it's not like suicide missions aren't sometimes worth the cost. But instead, it was a 60,000* homicides mission. And 90,000* homicides for Hiroshima. (Possibly justifiable homicides, depending on how one looks at it. But possibly not.)

      *Conservative estimates.

    2. Re:Nuke by Syberghost · · Score: 2

      But instead, it was a 60,000* homicides mission. And 90,000* homicides for Hiroshima. (Possibly justifiable homicides, depending on how one looks at it. But possibly not.)

      How many homicides are you gonna charge us with for Iwo Jima? Normandy?

    3. Re:Nuke by Bearpaw · · Score: 2
      How many homicides are you gonna charge us with for Iwo Jima? Normandy?

      How many were there?

      Like I said, it's at least arguable that killing people is sometimes justifiable. But it is still killing. Arguing that one should go ahead and kill tens of thousands of people because one possible alternative is a suicide mission for a few is totally specious.

      Would I go on such a suicide mission? Dammed if I know. If I was reasonably certain that it had a good chance of making hundreds of thousands of further deaths on either/both sides less likely, I like to think that I'd be willing. But obviously no one can really know such a thing about themselves unless they're actually in the situation.

    4. Re:Nuke by Syberghost · · Score: 2

      Like I said, it's at least arguable that killing people is sometimes justifiable. But it is still killing.

      Killing does not necessarily equal homicide. You used a specific term.

      Arguing that one should go ahead and kill tens of thousands of people because one possible alternative is a suicide mission for a few is totally specious.

      Is it? I don't see it that way.

      Japan attacked us. The way I see it, that means that saving their lives becomes less of a consideration than saving the lives of our people.

      I would never advocate an initiation of force, but they initiated.

      And don't give me the "following orders" argument; if you're expecting ME to commit suicide to avoid killing them, they should bloody well commit suicide first to avoid killing me.

    5. Re:Nuke by Bearpaw · · Score: 2
      And don't give me the "following orders" argument; if you're expecting ME to commit suicide to avoid killing them, they should bloody well commit suicide first to avoid killing me.

      [shrug] I'm not expecting YOU to do anything.

  64. Re:Database crash? by duffbeer703 · · Score: 1, Troll

    Slashdot is a pretty big volume website.

    Combine high volume, unreliable software and a toy database with the often-demonstrated technical incompetence of the staff and you have the disaster that is Slashdot.

    --
    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
  65. Editors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All that would prove is that editors are NOT the all-knowing creatures they wish us to belive them to be.

    How about after you ask them, you educate them. Then maybe some good will come of the effort.

  66. Close only counts for atomic bombs by n-baxley · · Score: 1

    Great article! But this has be puzzled.

    Not until 6 August did I learn that these heavy pumpkins had been the 509th's practice bombs for the atomic bomb they dropped that morning on Hiroshima. The pumpkin charts could be used for offset bombing with atomic bombs.

    Why would you need to offset bomb with an atomic bomb? I would think you could drop it pretty much anywhere since it's going to destroy everything for several miles!

  67. Alchohol and Sex are incentives in war. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Patton said "If the men can't fuck, they won't fight". Sure, sex is an incentive for lonely young men; and smart officers know it. My grandfather was in WWII and he said seizing chateaus in France was the source of Cognac and wine to dole out the bravest units of the day. War is hell and watch out for the hangover.

  68. OT: Slashdot auto-tweaking posts by dingbat_hp · · Score: 1

    Anonymous cowards do too know how to spell, dammit.

    Seeing that Slash has decided to mangle our postings (the link describer), why stop there ? Let's discourage AC's from posting anonymously by randomly inserting misspielings, or W0RDZ TH4T L00K K00L and H4XX0R

    PS - What does Slash do if you do post a Goatse.cx link ?

  69. Re:Database crash? by No+Such+Agency · · Score: 2

    Don't be ungrateful. How much time do you spend here? For *cough FREE cough*. So there was an outage. Go outside for a few hours, instead of insulting the people who run the site. Whatever you may think of their editorial discretion (which we can all complain about at one time or another), Slashdot works almost all the time, and you love it.

    --
    Freedom: "I won't!"
  70. Lack of Paragraph tags by Hormonal · · Score: 1
    When they switched to the new version of Slashcode, my default posting type (the droplist below your comment box) went to "Plain Text", instead of the "HTML Formatted" option I was used to.

    I'd assume the same thing happened to you.

  71. Negative. Nukes need to be *close* against armor. by Behrooz · · Score: 1

    Unless you're using a really *BIG* nuke, you'll blow out windows for several miles plus a few and wipe out unreinforced structures for several minus a few miles.

    Against hardened targets, you'll need to be close even using a low-midrange nuke like the WWII-tech ones. The shock wave is only really effective against wood-frame structures, windows, and unshielded personell.

    Think of it this way-- if you want to immediately kill the personnel in a tank, you'd better hit them pretty much pinpoint.

    --
    "We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
  72. Sick Of Hearing "The Japs Started It" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    I trust that not all American ex-servicemen still believe:

    "After the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941 brought the US into World War II,
    (...)"

    or rather, if they do, then I hope that other Americans can look beyond this myth. You have to go back another hundred years to find the first angry shot fired between the two nations, but more about that later.

    The recent release of "'Pearl Harbour' as approved by the US Military" alienated non-US audiences (the Limeys hated it!), and media outlets reported on the relationship between Hollywood and the military.

    Even John Wayne knew Uncle Sam had played a few hands before December - or have you forgotten his performance in Flying Tigers?

    The following is from p. 93 of "Higher than Heaven, Japan, war, and everything", by Barrel & Tanaka (1995 Private Guy International):

    -----
    Up the Tigers
    The Flying Tigers started arriving in China in mid-1938 and took part in the battle of Hankow. They were strictly mercenaries paid by results: a monthly wage of $US600 and a bonus of $US500 every time they downed a Japanese plane. Even though the USA wasn't fighting Japan yet, in April 1941 President Roosevelt signed an order which allowed regular US servicemen to resign and join the Tigers. The P-40 Tomahawks were dubbed 'Tigers' by the media, because they each had a double row of shark's teeth painted on their nose.
    (Former aerial circus star Lt.Col. Claire) Chennault's first serious deployment was in the battle for Burma where he devised a special 'tag' technique to allow the somewhat obsolete planes to fly in pairs and protect each other while dealing with the faster Japanese aircraft. In 1942 the Tigers grew to become the USAAF's Fourteenth Air Force.
    -----

    SVG veterans themselves proudly declare their involvement, and ten years ago the US Government recognised them as having been on "active duty" from December 1941 to July 1942, and as a result were eligible for veterans' benefits.

    Now go back a hundred years to July 1853 to find the US Navy and Commodore Perry, with full 'discretionary powers' from President Fillmore, anchoring his 'black ships' (or 'Kuro fune', a term coined for fear of any threat from outside) for a few days in Tokyo Bay, then marching 300 armed sailors ashore to drive the point home.

    What did the US want? To open shipping routes, and for whalers and other merchant vessels to stop and refuel. Ironically, it was American whale hunters who developed the local Japanese appetite for whales into a national taste - now defended as an ancient cultural rite that can't be disturbed.

    -----
    Perry's Pacific ideas and adventures were savoured with enthusiasm by American admirals and generals. The Japanese also remembered Perry's offensive attitude. Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku described his attach on Hawaii's Pearl Harbour in December 1941 as the 'return of Perry's visit'. When the Japanese signed the surrender on board the USS Missouri in Tokyo Bay on September 2, 1945, the US flag that was displayed was the one that flapped on the stern of Perry's steam frigate the USS Mississippi.
    -----
    (viz., p37)

    Some good examples here of the adage 'you reap what you sow'. I wonder what the two seeds that were sown in August 1945 could grow into, with the proper attention.

    (Australian Coward)

    1. Re:Sick Of Hearing "The Japs Started It" by tbone1 · · Score: 1
      Yes, yes, yes. We all know that Japan only bombed Pearl Harbor because they thought a giant lizard was rampaging through Honolulu.



      If you aren't brave enough to use your real name, don't bother posting drivel like this.

      --

      The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
  73. The modern equivalent: beer and pizza by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've never actually gotten any beer for my open source work, but I've gotten plenty of employer-provided pizza for my commercial work.

  74. Things haven't changed much by Mr.+Foogle · · Score: 1

    I earned my dischage from the Marines in '93, after 8 years service in the infantry and data processing fields (rifleman AND a computer programmer - the best of both worlds).

    On my discharge paperwork, the DAY of my dischage, the company clerk (a guy who *knew* me) had entered, for my Occupations Specialty "Heavy Equipment Operator, 2 years experience" and nothing else.

    I raised a shit fit with the guy and the Warrant Officer in charge of S-1 (a perfect example of who should *not* be a WO) - they would not tear it up and redo it - it had been signed by the C.O. They DID have a form with attached to the back of the form, stating that the orignal form was wrong and listing what I done and when.

    It's worth nothing that they took my word for my MOS and years of experience, and didn't check my SRB. In hindsight, I could have slipped some really _good_ stuff in there. .

    --
    Display some adaptability.
  75. Funny? by leinerj · · Score: 1

    I don't understand how this was classified as funny and not science or something like that. I found this article particularry interesting. I did however find it funny how a comendation letter from a general is so point by point and not personal.

  76. Re:Guess what this story makes ME wanna do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Um, yeah. Back in your hole now, freak.

  77. Re:Database crash? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If that's a troll, why is slashdot down weekly due to database problems???

    If they were running oracle with a skilled staff, it would never be down.

  78. Hmmm. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I wonder if this will really work.

    Only Time Will Tell....

  79. A calculator parallel by SimCash · · Score: 1
    When I was a young 2685 (USAF code for mathematician) working as a ballistics engineer we got hold of some of the first TI-59 calculators with the nifty little magnetic card readers for inputting and storing programs. I had been playing with ballistic missile codes (both for live missiles and for a program called STRIKE (Strategic Targeting Resource Integrator and Kill Evaluator)) and suggested to the powers that be that it might be possible to get a pretty good fuel usage estimate for use in retargeting the Minuteman III (3 warhead system). Given the go-ahead, I pressed on.


    The first problem was the development and testing cycle times. I was used to the IBM 360 turnaround times for punch decks of 2-4 hours (often overnight because of the classification of the programs (Secret, Top Secret, SCI)). The TI-59 was slow, so I developed a sort of emulator on the HP9825 desktop "Calculator" so I could get faster turnarounds. In those days computers belonged to "Data Automation" (AD), so we only got the HP9825 because the case said "Calculator". The system had a tape drive, card reader, plotter, printer, full keyboard, 32-character display and 4K of memory with its own programming language, but hey, the box said "Calculator" so, by the book, it wasn't a computer. By emulating the TI59 on the HP9825 I was able to do real-time run/debug/correct style programming that was really fun compared with the batch style programming we were using on the IBM 360.


    By using some really tight code I was able to simulate the flight and deployment of the booster and the three reentry vehicles, computing the cross range and downrange perturbations and the resulting fuel costs, and estimate the total fuel used to deliver the RVs to the three targets as input by the user. This all had to fit in the 960-step/100 memory register of the TI59. Considering that amongst other things I had to invert a 3x3 matrix, space was pretty tight.


    Using data from the actual targeting programs used in the Minuteman III, I built some curve fitting functions for fuel usage, used simple spherical trig range and azimuth calculations and managed to get within 5% of the actual fuel usage (the program's estimate was always close to the projection from the mainframe, and was usually in the .95 to 1.05 range about the true value).


    The final program was to be carried on the ABCP (KC-135 "Looking Glass") to permit quick evaluation of proposed retargeting of MMIII missiles.

  80. Re:incorrect simulation - example by SimCash · · Score: 1
    One trick question in operations research classes was based on these sorts of analyses.
    Given historical information gathered from returning bombers that counts the number of holes in wings, fusulage, etc., recommend where to put additional armor.

    The obvious (and wrong) answer - put more armor where there are more holes. This is wrong because you are looking at a biased sample. In fact, if you assume that the holes are distributed uniformly over the planes (also a bad assumption, but hey...), then you would want to place more armor where the planes were hit least, since the ones that were shot down are more likely to have been heavily hit in exactly those places where your sampled planes were not hit.
  81. Frontal attack on WWII bombers by Metox · · Score: 1

    For a moment consider what happened in the ETO (European Theater of Operations). The B17 (another Boeing design) and the B24 (Consolidated) both entered the war in europe without much protection from a frontal attack. This was due to the same studies mentioned in the article. The assumption was that the closing speed of a frontal attack would be too great for a fighter to be able to aim reliably. This prooved to be correct at the onset of operations, but the Germans quickly learned that a rear quarter attack was pretty difficult. This gave the Germans motivation to perfect the frontal attack, which they did. This attack proved even more effective when the bombers began to fly in massive formations. All a fighter pilot had to do is get to the front of the bomber stream and fly straight down it. Picking one target, letting off a few rounds, then the next. Many bombers were shot down this way. The solution for the B17 and B24 was to impliment a nose or, in the case of the B17, a chin turret to cover the frontal attack. Incedentally , the Aiming device used for the B17's chin turret was a simplified version of the system pioneered in the development of the B29.

    The chin turret was impossible to install in the B29 as it has all that plexi up front. Plus, just as in the B17, the front gunner was also the bombadier.

    --
    "Chemestry is Physics without thought. Mathematics is Physics without purpose."
  82. Oh, here is another joke... that was a joke right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Since that nasty war of 1812 (hell, what about the Revolutionary war) we should go kick the shit out of the UK.

    Japan murdered MILLIONS of innocent Chinese, so we should encourage China to kick the shit out of Japan.

    and the list goes on and on and on. How about you stop being a fucking moron, my illogical friend? How about just looking at the relevent facts. One country attacked another. The attacking country murdered MILLIONS of innocents in their lust for power and blood. If a 'conventional' bombing and attack had taken place then not only would MANY MANY MORE allies have lost their lives, but MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY MORE Japanese (civilian or otherwise). (and this, my illogical friend is based not on just projections but on past battles in WWII)

    Stop being a fucking asshole just to get attention and rebel with your 'angst'. It was a fucking war. It was started by the Japanese. It was ended by the defenders. The aggressors, besides the obvious violent imperialist nature, murdered MILLIONS of innocents in their quest of hate and power. The 'poor victims' of Japan seem to overshadow the victims of every other country, including the Chinese that were massacered.

    Lets talk about Japanese soldiers taking Chinese infants by the feet and ankles, and then swinging them like a club against dense objects? Lets talk about the old, infirm and wives or other children that were used as live targets for guns, swords and bayonets. Lets talk about all those Okinawan's that were seen as 'not pure' and exterminated.

    I pity people like you who live in a fantasy realm that you can pick and choose what aspects of reality you choose to use as your arguments. I despise you because you are the type that is the FIRST to support and enact mass murder and other attrocities and then justify it as 'for the children'. You sir, are a monster! And pray I never meet you.

  83. please tell me you are joking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    First, dont be a fool and make the mistake that the following is in ANY way excusing, denying or justifying the Holocaust. Second, regardless of the horrors of the past, do you honestly believe it is either ethical, moral or logical to enforce your will on others? (notice the irony there, my illogical friend?) I can't imagine anyone not being horrified by the holocaust, but how can I make it a crime for them to say it was good, didn't happen or that it wasn't as bad as people say. Even worse, how could I then be foolish and hypocritical enough to say that when mentioning WW2, that if it is NOT mentioned then they are jailed and killed. (Yep, what happens if they run my illogical friend?)

    Surely the hypocricy and irony is not lost on those here. Don't start muddying the waters by accusing anyone who doesn't perform some heart crossing/sidewalk spitting ritual when WW2 or the holocaust specifically is mentioned as being for it. It would be illogical, incorrect and hypocritical. Please seek help. Maybe your lobotomy can be reversed.

  84. what a sad pathetic talking monkey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    you know how to talk, but you have chosen to forgo the use of higher thought. Every bit of that crap is so contradictory and foolish that it makes my head hurt. You sure like to attack America and its actions, yet ironically ignore what Japan did. Hmmm, I guess the truth is to horrifying to you. Love that last paragraph. I guess that means that we still owe them for Pearl Harbor then? China wouldn't mind owning Japan too. How about we all sit around and 'get back at each other' for things that happened that did not involve us or our 'enemy'. Real sharp kid! You will either grow into a serial killer, a politician or be shot by a rival gang or while resisting arrest in some liquir store robbing attempt.

    I pity you and hope you will someday take a look at the sad and pathetic existence that is your life. You need professional help.

  85. Nazi cowards make me wanna puke! by stinkgeek.com · · Score: 0

    Nazi coward, login next time, so I can forward your detailst to the proper authorities!