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I will not claim to be an audio pro, but I knew I had seen devices that sample at much more than 16 bits/44.1 kHz (CDs), so I googled and found this device http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/FireWire/AudioFi re12/index.php , which is a product that samples 24 bits/192 kHz, which leads me to believe that masters probably are recorded with higher fidelity.

I *will* claim to be an audio pro. Yes, certainly, albums are recorded, mixed, and mastered at higher sample and bit rates than CD. The vast majority of recordings don't see 44.1kHz or 16 bit until the step right before they're put onto a CD. The question, however, is do these higher quality masters get used by ITMS to create the tracks that they sell, or do they just work from a 44.1kZHz/16bit master CD that is of the same quality as the CDs the rest of us have. I have a hunch it's the latter, not only because it's easier, but because it's likely to be preferable. Converting from high sample and bit rates to low sample and bit rates is a lossy process that is affected by the quality of lowpass filter and dithering algorithms used (respectively). Since the compressed ITMS tracks are likely uncompressed to 44.1kHz/16bit (on the fly) when played back, I'm guessing they convert to 44.1kHz/16bit when encoding, if the files aren't that already. The quality of filter and dither algorithms built into iTunes are very likely to be worse than those at a mastering studio, so it's probable that it's preferable to have Apple working from 44.1kHz/16bit masters, rather than the higher quality masters that the studio has.

I will not claim to be an audio pro, but I knew I had seen devices that sample at much more than 16 bits/44.1 kHz (CDs), so I googled and found this device http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/FireWire/AudioFi re12/index.php , which is a product that samples 24 bits/192 kHz, which leads me to believe that masters probably are recorded with higher fidelity.

if by "sound card" you allow extrapolation to the more general term "audio interface" there are plenty - M-Audio, http://www.m-audio.com/ Echo Audio http://www.echoaudio.com/ Mark of the Unicorn, http://www.motu.com/ Digidesign, http://www.digidesign.com/ RME, http://www.rme-audio.com/ Apogee, http://www.apogeedigital.com/ Edirol, http://www.edirol.com/ etc.

I have scored several films ,produced and engineered quite a few albums and cut several radio and podcast spots using Presonus Firepods http://www.presonus.com/. It has just about all the IO you could ask for in an 8 (10 if you count spdif) channel box. You can also daisy chain 3 of them for a 24 channel stack. Also, it is rack mountable so you can readily take it on the road. Overall things just work and I, and my customers, have been very pleased with the sound quality. Not to mention, you get balanced and unbalanced capabilities. To keep things quiet I don't run anything unbalanced if there is more that 3 feet of cable.

If the firepod is a bit much they also offer cut down versions. The firebox, which is a 2 channel unit, and the inspire which has 4 channels.

Digidesign http://www.digidesign.com/, Echo http://www.echoaudio.com/ and Mackie http://www.mackie.com/ also have some really nice gear but can be a bit pricy. I do agree with staying away from m-audio. Their MIDI stuff is phenominal but the audio gear is lacking. I would say the same for lower level Alesis and anything from Behringer.

I also must echo earlier posts in saying that you shouldn't skimp on mics. Your end product is only as good as your source. I would recommend a good condenser from AudioTechnica or MXL for price/quality.

Also, your monitors (for you non-audio folks these are the speakers, not the video display) are also critical to getting a mix that translates well to other systems. You will find that if you use standard stereo speakers or, God forbid, computer speakers what you put out will sound extremely different from stereo to stereo as you listen in different environments.

I personally use Event TR8Ns with a KRK Rockit 10 subwoofer but these babies ain't cheap at $1000.00US per pair. I would recommend looking into KRK http://www.krksys.com/. I did some post work on the latest Stereofuge album with Mark Slaughter producing and we did the entire mix on them and it sounded fat-tastic. In any case, you will want a good near-field monitor that is self powered to eliminate transients.

Finally, clean up your power. You'll be amazed at the difference a $60.00US power conditioner can make to the quality of the sound you get. I use Furman http://www.furmansound.com/ conditioners. This is a good tip for anyone who has a home-theater or high-end gaming system as well.

A good set of reference books for audio newbs is a series of books by Bobby Owsinski. Starting with the recording engineers handbook (available at amazon) they will give you enough info to be extremely dangerous.

I didn't mean to be so verbose but I hope some of this is useful.

Here's the corrected link: http://www.echoaudio.com/

Look at http://www.echoaudio.com./ I've been using thier products for 10 years (I've produced some CDs with them), and I've always been pleased with the level of support.

These guys understand recording.

This is a product a friend uses and should do what you need and works well with cubase. There is only a 6 channel version for what i can see, im pretty sure his was 8. Possibly discontinued? http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/PCI/ Specs: Layla3G is the third generation of our flagship PCI based multitrack digital recorder. The original Layla premiered seven years ago to critical acclaim, including a TEC award nomination. Since then we've been perfecting the art of making high quality recording products at affordable prices. Now you can get all of the features of the Layla24 for a new low price, and with dual mic preamps!! Layla3G is the perfect center for any professional studio. It has 2 universal inputs with mic preamps, 6 balanced analog inputs, 8 balanced analog outputs, and a stereo headphone output. ADAT lightpipe, optical and coaxial S/PDIF, and MIDI are included as well. Layla3G comes with a 15' cable and PCI card that connects to the audio interface. Layla3G is compatible with PCI-X (3.3 or 5 volt) motherboards and Power Mac G5 computers, as well as older systems.

I personally use an EchoAudio Indigo DJ CardBus audio interface in my laptop connected to my upper-midrange receiver connected to my midrange speakers. Even though I paid $30 for the speakers (used) and the interface and amp were given to me I'd guarantee the setup sounds way better than any of these "desktop" speakers.

But I agree it's subjective. I went from one $400 pair of speakers (which I liked a lot) to another $400 pair of speakers and found it hard to go back. The new ones are so much better in regards to imaging, dynamic range, clarity etc. etc. It really amazed me.

Sound Blaster Audigy 2NX
Echo Indigo

I have a humble Sound Blaster MP3+ (USB sound card) hooked up to a somewhat high-end stereo system (B&W Matrix 805 speakers, Meridian 501 preamp and 556 amp) and it actually sounds pretty great. That's a $40 sound card that can hang with a $4500 stereo!

this is true. I helped build a studio that does 24 tracks simutaneous, with two Echo Laylas which do 8 ins and outs each plus 24 bit optical and coaxial S/PDIF. It has a breakout box that is rack mountable which feeds into their PCI or (get this) a PCMCIA cardbus card.

I have been involved with producing local Boston band's cds. I humbly disagree with you.

First, any band that wants to record has their instruments and inevitably equiptment simply because they like to play.

I built a dual Athalon box with a layla so I can either get 8 tracks at a time or use a mixing board with the s/pdif and get more tracks. I would personally use Cakewalk and an academic version at that (if you don't have the budget, why wouldn't you be creative about working within it). Mics are certainly something to consider. But chances are you are going to track to some extent or another, so you cab get away with buying 3 or 4 good ones (but seriously, I know of national bands who used $150 mics in the studio. For $2000, you will have a box that can record 16 tracks 1/4" simutaneously with rediculously low latency. Sure there are other costs, but many are covered by the fact that you are a musician anyway and have most of the stuff you need. If not, you likely know another band whom you can borrow stuff from.

I can get cds pressed in very short runs that are of a better than average (for an indie band) for about $3 a cd - with all of the marketing trappings a fan likes to see when they dole out money for a cd. If the budget doesn't allow for a larger initial inverstment, $3 per cd to make $7 is much better than no cds at $8.70 profit.

So really, for most bands that are talented enough to have been playing out for a while, have much of the equiptment they need. Play out in a decent club, and you can at least get live tracks recorded onto a mini disc player and get a stereo recording for less than $100. (In case one's budget is extremely low). At that point, you hope the sound guy who is doing the show is good enough to get you a good mix.

And your $30 dollor an hour place will take 15.00 if you are willing to do 6 hour blocks starting at midnight.

I worked at Cakewalk for a few years. I have heard stuff that customers sent in with not more than $2000 in equiptment, including computer and software and mics that shocked a lot of us.

And don't forget the types of music that one can make that has nothing to do with anyone but a sequencer, a bunch of samples and a microphone. I had Rizzo from the Wu Tang Clan show me a portable recording studio he had (his partners were trying to sell them for about $4000) where he recorded Old Dirty Bastard in a hotel lobby two nights earlier. The quality was almost that of what you hear as a finished product from them. It was amazing.

Something like a Layla will get you 4 stereo channels (8 mono) Layla There are other products out there that will do even more. They are project studio grade and sound terrific but are a bit pricey.

Correction, its the layla 24bit, and its a 8track (leave it to me to screw something that simple up)...here is the product page

echo audio sells digital multitrack recording products. one product of theirs that my friend bought on ebay for only like $50 (retails for only a few hundred, i don't remember) is the Layla 20bit, which is a combination rackmountable piece of hardware for all the inputs, and a pci card for your computer connecting to the rackmount...they include software for it, and my over all opinion is its very good. I believe its a 4 track, but again, i could be wrong. Ebay search for Echo Layla, lowest price first

I have recorded quite a bit of music in my bedroom, with very good quality. I recommend buying an Echo Mia card which is dirt cheap. Then get a mic, and perhaps a cheap guitar amp as a preamp, and plug the output of the guitar amp to the Mia instead of to them amp's speaker. The quality will astonish you. And also follow the basic rules like turn off your A/C, fans, anything that makes sound in your home, etc. Here's a sample of what it sounds like with something I've recorded.

There's no point getting good speakers if the audio being played on them is of poor quality.

I agree with this to a point. You don't go buy $10k speakers and run them off a Soundblaster 16. But, really, you don't run them off an Extigy either. The only things the Extigy has going for it is marketing and being external. It actually has nasty DA and AD converters, constantly dithers to various frequencies and bit rates, and generally mucks up the sound something awful. Not actually worth the money.

There are good external sound cards, but they don't come cheap. Try M-Audio (now with a consumer line!) or Echo or Aardvark or even Digidesign if you want "audiophile" sound cards for a PC. These are all "Pro Audio" companies (aka music production), but you can use the stuff for Quake just as easy as creating break beats.

There's no point getting good speakers if the audio being played on them is of poor quality.

The counter to this is that there's no point in using a good amp/soundcard/cables/etc to produce good audio if the speakers it is playing on is poor quality. And there are no "computer speakers" that are not poor quality from an Audiophile perspective. Nor can you even buy any Audiophile speakers at Best Buy or Circuit City. Supposedly SoundTrack carries them, but the one near me does not. I can only find them in local shops; the shops that turn up thier noses if you ask if they carry anything by Bose.

For perspactive, there's audiophile and Audiophile. The former is like the guy who says he's into performace cars and slaps a "Type-R" sticker on his Civic. The latter is the guy who says he's into performace cars and labors over whether to buy a Ferrari or Lambroghini. (If these are misspelled, or are actually not the "nice" cars anymore, please forgive me. I drive a "paid for" Storm and a Grand Prix and don't pretend to care about cars.) My wife and I are 2/3 of the way from audiophile to Audiophile. She won't buy a speaker unless she can instantly tell whether Itzhak Perlman is pushing or pulling the bow across the strings. I want to hear what brand of compressors were used in the drum overheads. But we have a WIDE variety of systems we play music on, from MB Quarts (nice) to Altec Lansing PC speakers (functional for the beeps Windows makes) to 1964 Magnavox peice-of-furniture stereo (inacurate, but warm and perfect for Billie Holiday.)

So... If your husband is an Audiophile, spare him the agony of pretending to like what you get him Christmas morning and get him something else. If he's an audiophile, get him whatever is on the shelf for $200.

At home, I have 4 Linux boxes of differing kernels, distros, functionalities, etc. I enjoy working with Linux and spend most of my home computing time doing so. There is *almost* nothing I can't do on a Linux box that I can do on Windows. I've got it playing and ripping DVDs as well as CDs, playing all of the major multimedia formats (AVI, MPG, ASF, MOV, etc.) with mplayer, and picture viewing with GQView.

My wife is on XP for Quicken and to VPN to work. I have XP on one box as well. I need it to run 2 separate VPN clients for work. My main reason for the XP box is one particular piece of hardware though... Layla20 by Echo Audio. I do digital recording with this piece of equipment with Cakewalk and Sound Forge. I've seen nothing on Linux comparable to these 2 programs. Even if there were, the hardware is still not supported although they have supposedly released the hardware specs to the public now for open source development. It's probably also important to note that I bought Layla before I was turned on to Linux. I'm not ditching the hardware because it cost me over $700.00 brand new. Anyone know of any Linux development being done with Layla? Please?

My most advanced computer hardware-wise is the XP box ringing in at 2.4 GHz. That being said, I still use my 800 MHz Debian machine the most frequently. I touch the XP machine about once every 2 weeks. Sickening having all of that processing power and not using it, eh?

At work, I have 2 machines: a W2K box that requires MS-Access and Excel. I also have my W2K laptop on which I boot into Knoppix very frequently. :-) Work dictates that I use Windows. There's no getting past that. I *have* actually sold my boss on the Ruby programming language, so open source has a small sphere of influence there. I even have my boss using it.

The only time I play games is using a gaming console. That's what they're for. Keyboard and mouse gaming have their place, but I've moved on. The console market is where it's at for me now.

Just had to get my $0.02 in.

even though you have bought an overpriced desk lamp, you to can rest assured your Mac is still somehow "better" than any PC running windows or Linux

Wow, the moderator that modded the parent up must have had ball balls, cause that remark could certainly ruffle some feathers.

If you like the styling of the Mac, OS X, or the feeling of being part of a more "unique" group of computer users, the Mac may be worth the extra money. Unfortunately, Apple's "switch" campaign is more like propaganda. While it may have been accurate 10 years ago, it most certainly isn't the case about PCs now.

The Mac... It just works

...and so do PCs. The only time you have hardware/software incompatibilities on the PC are ironically, when the drivers for the hardware are poorly written. Macs aren't immune from this problem either.

It doesn't crash

Yes it does. So does Windows XP and so does Linux, *BSD, Windows 3.1, DOS and every other OS out there. If you're TRYING to crash an OS, there's always a way to succeed. If you're just using OS X or Windows XP or Linux and not trying to crash it on purpose, they can be equally stable.

Simply the best in digital music

The PC was first with software Layer3 encoding/decoding. On the PC, there's a dizzying array of available codecs, editing tools, mixers, audio hardware, etc, etc, etc. Yes, you can listen to MP3s on the Mac. Professional audio production? Just like on the PC, you're going to need a better sound card.

The missing link in digital photography

Ironic they'd call the Mac the "missing link" because there really is nothing "missing" from the PC in the area of digital photography. Your results are really more dependant on the quality of your digicam than your computing platform of choice.

Your own digital entertainment center

I have to hand this title to the PC, sorry Apple. I've tried the DivX player on the Mac - it wasn't pretty. If making MPEG1/2 files, DivX and timeshifting TV is your thing, the PC is the only choice. If you own a DV cam and want to do Apple's iMovie thing, Apple's great, otherwise you'll be disappointed.

Goes everywhere you go

Umm... Apple... There are small portable PCs too. Where's my cluestick?

It's built for the Internet

So was Windows 98. 'Nuff said.

Office is Office and then some

Yep. There's MS-Office for the Mac. Basically, if you're into Microsoft software and you switch to the Mac, you can keep supporting the worthwhile cause of making Bill Gates's wallet fatter.

Works effortlessly with PCs

Unless you want to access Samba/Windows shares. Then you need to buy 3rd party software called Dave and it's buggy. No, this isn't Mac bashing, it's from experience.

It's beautiful

We'll sue any PC manufacturer that tries to copy the look-and-feel of our hardware, because Microsoft already succeded in copying the look-and-feel of our software.

Sure, it would be fun to do, but I could just as easily toss a Mini-ITX motherboard, which has a tvout, into a pizzabox with a 100w atx power supply, hd, and dvd and come out just over the price of an x-box. No hacking required. Plus, you have a PCI slot for something like maybe a REAL audio card. Then you have decent sound quality, plus AC3 passthrough if you want it :)

You want quality audio in a PC? Go get a card made by these people, these people, these people, these people, these people, or these people. Then we'll talk.

FANTASTIC audio quality! The highs are crisp and smooth, and the lows are round and roomy.

Integrates/plays nice with gaming/everyday soundcard. I'm using the Mia in conjunction with an SBLive! Platinum (under WinXP) with no problems.

Negative: Finicky about which motherboard chipset you're using. This is a HUGE consideration for this card, but if Echo says your chipset will work, you're ok.

We currently use a/d converters from the Echo line of converters. Between drivers and latency issues with linux, there is no hope of getting low latency, low CPU usage, and stable operation on WINE. Honestly, we did not even try. We need all the DSP horsepower we can get from our systems which are used almost exclusively with such applications. Either way... if anyone wants to e-mail me, I'd be happy to have a more involved discussion on the issue.

Both Echo Audio and Aardvark Pro Audio make a wide range of audio cards with a variety of features. Both companies have a good reputation among pro audio enthusiasts for their high quality products.

I think you are asking for a lot for such a small price. Currently, I use an Echo Layla, which has 8 unbalanced inputs and 8 unbalanced outs. They also have the Gina, which has 4 balanced ins, and 6 balanced outs. Both cards also have MIDI In/Out (which isn't that fancy [read: doesn't effect the cost much]) and optical In/Out.

I use the optical in to add another 8 channels from a cheap digital mixer with an optical out (the Fostex VM88). All this runs through a proprietary PCI card. A buddy just got the Layla with the new PCMCIA card instead of a PCI card, for his laptop. Both models can be found for $699.

Echo's products also come with a very nice software digital mixer, which allow you to mix any input to any output. Recording software such as Sonar works well for recording multiple channels at once, at 24bit/96kHz (although I only use 44kHz).

Personally, I suspect that Echo has a far better product than Creative (largely because of the USB), but I haven't seen the price on the Extigy yet.

If you're looking for a good soundcard for your laptop checkout either the EgoSys WamiBox or the Echo Mona Laptop. Both cards put Creative labs new addition to this market to shame.

Echo has made a PCMCIA laptop adapter for their Layla recording system. The system includes a breakout box with 8 inputs, 8 outputs, MIDI, and S/PDIF. Check out their Web site. The whole system is about $1000. I've used the older Layla20 with a PCI card and Cakewalk Pro Audio for over 2 years and it's working very well. I'm interfacing with the mixer section of a Tascam 4-track, a Boss drum machine, and a Digitech effects processor. Let me know if you have questions about my setup.

Yes, it can be done. It can even be done decently with an extra $1000 or so in recording hardware. But at best it represents a significant degradation in sound quality + a lot of work to get what should be freely available in the first place.

BZZZZZT! $1000 is the wrong answer. (No complaint, though about the second sentence in your answer.)

The Echo Gina24 is a sound card I used that cost me only $500, and the audio quality is professional quality. Echo Digital Audio has other products that may be less expensive but sport similar performance specifications. (Do you really need 8 outputs at the same time? I didn't think so.) At $249 MSRP for the Mia (which means you can prolly find it for a bit less if you look) you can get A/D that surpasses most sound cards that come with PCs today.

When I measured the performance of the Echo Gina24, I was impressed with its 127 dBFS noise floor and 73 dB total harmonic distortion when excited with a 23-tone test signal. (The THD measurement may well have been measuring the performance of the UTC/TRW A1 transformer I was using to balance the signal for injection into the Echo Gina24, which uses balanced inputs.) The real test, though, was with live recording. The Echo Gina24 did as good a job, to my ears, as my Technics 1500US tape deck running at 15 ips recording a classical string quartet from my board and a pair of ATM-31 microphones mounted in a shock-absorbing stereo brace. Better if you consider the tape deck has a 60 dB noise floor.

(BONUS: Linux drivers -- in source -- are supposed to be available in January.)

If you can afford it, and you want really pristine sounding audio, get a breakout box. I use the Echo Layla24, and I love it. Because the D/A converter is in an external box with its own power supply, you don't get any hum or interference from the PC. At $700, it's a bit expensive, and used mostly for home studio work, but Echo has a few cheaper models that would serve the same function, like Gina.

(No, I don't work for Echo, or have any stock. I just think they are a kick-ass company. Not to mention their excellent [eh-hem] Windows driver support).

If you can afford it, and you want really pristine sounding audio, get a breakout box. I use the Echo Layla24, and I love it. Because the D/A converter is in an external box with its own power supply, you don't get any hum or interference from the PC. At $700, it's a bit expensive, and used mostly for home studio work, but Echo has a few cheaper models that would serve the same function, like Gina.

(No, I don't work for Echo, or have any stock. I just think they are a kick-ass company. Not to mention their excellent [eh-hem] Windows driver support).

The problem here isn't software (although the programs aren't exactly excellent either). The problem is hardware. Speaking as an audio engineer, i will make the bold statement that NO pro-level sound card is currently supported in linux. Some people may disagree, but let me see if i can cut some of them off at the pass; a sound blaster of ANY kind is not a real sound card. Nor is a gravis, a turtle beach, or any other of the gaming cards people usually mention. The turtle beach comes close in a few areas, but doesn't get out of the hobbiest arena, due mostly to it's SNR, i/o connectors, and low rate ADCs.

Don't misunderstand me, i'm not saying these cards are horrible or that they suck, but if you think you're gonna replace 2" tape with your audigy, think again.

The real pro-level sound systems like sonic solutions, protools, motu, and to a more semi-pro extent midiman and echo audio have absolutely no linux support. For now, studio level audio with linux is a total dead end. The most you can hope for now is to use it for audio processing or creation does not even involve a sound card, and that's a pretty limited use.

BeOS could have made it, in fact they were starting to, but then they made the brilliant decision to "change focus" from multimedia to networking, good call guys.

All is not lost however, because OSX will bring light. Mac is THE platform for pro audio, protools is native to it, as is sonic solutions. This means that before too long all the biggies will be offering drivers for OSX (midiman already does), and if they are smart enough to offer the source with them, then they'll be ported in short order to linux i'm sure.

Linux audio now? bah! Linux audio in three years? definately!

Echo Audio uses a breakout box which has excellent sound quality. The breakout box doesn't use the same power supply as the PC, so you don't have any noise issues. They have a PCMCIA adapter in the works right now.

Just thought i'd mention that Echo Audio's site www.echoaudio.com is currently infected. I'm using the IE 5.5 (Sp2) and it asked me if i wanted to save or execute readme (1).exe, but at least it didn't just run. I called and let them know of the problem at 11:00am PST, so i don't know how long it will remain infected.

• Mark of the Unicorn (MOTU)
  
• Yamaha Although I can't seem to find the popular DSP factory in a few minutes of looking on the site.
  
• Echo Audio make the Gina, Darla, and Layla cards that used to be distributed by Event Electronics
  
• Aardvark Audio
  
• Digidesign
  
• Sek'd
  
• Soundscape Digital Technologies
  
• DSP FX makes an effects processing card