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I've read this argument time and time again (decrease in mainstream piracy gives more exposure to legal smaller labels) but I still don't think it'll work all that well in the current form.

I don't take part in illegal piracy, but as far as I'm aware you need to actually type in a search string and then get results of it back letting you download things from various hosts. If there isn't some sort of "browse" option then it's only going to work for things where people already know what they want, very little new stuff will be discovered except by accident. Likewise all the data you get back is very basic: name of band, name of song, name of album (?) and that's probably it. I don't know what genre it is, what they sound like, their influences and so on. I have no interest in listening to this band because I don't know why I might want to and there are hundreds and thousands of other bands. It becomes a matter of choosing who to listen to based on their name alone (then again... that worked well for me with Imperial Teen).

Further the problem is likely to become cyclic. If a band is good and gets enough fans due to free content then it's not very likely that the same level of free content will continue to remain around that long. Either it will slow considerably or they'll start charging for it. With time they may even sell out completely. Unless you keep looking only for new stuff that noone's ever heard of and then drop them the second they get popular (ye gods... the hipsters can see the future!!!) it seems like you're in for a tough time.

Personally I go to Epitonic which offers links between various bands, short write ups on them, free samples of their music and pretty much everything I could want to use to find out about new music, get free samples of stuff I already know about or find out more about something I heard from my friends. It's a bit small and may not have everything, but I find it to be the perfect sort of resource for this type of thing.

Want to suggest any other ideas...?

OK. Try the record labels' web sites. Most have songs you can download (some even offer Oggs). Granted, this requires a bit of work. Personally, I love looking for new music. When I actually had a functioning turntable, I used to buy 45s like they were going out of style. Of course, they probably already were out of style...

Also, check out Epitonic. This is a great resource for sampling bands. Find the bands you actually like, and get a list of other bands that fall into the same genre. Some artists have more downloads from others there, but I've found oodles of new stuff there.

I guess I'm spoiled being in a somewhat big city with a decent music scene. There are about half a dozen good indie music shops near my house. I actually don't even bother the radio most of the time...

currency converter - findsounds.com

how stuff works - infoplease

about.com - librarian's index

rebecca's reference - tom mayo's links
-words:

acronym/abbr -lookup -finder -bm

trans -babelfish -worldlingo -google bm

bartleby

phrontistery

pseudodictionary

jargon file
--music

epitonic - pitchfork

sonomu - electraum

gnod - audioquarium --books:

amazon - abebooks - bookfinder

gutenberg & onlinebooks

loc.gov - lambiek comiclopedia - rebecca's books

My brother-on-law sells on CD Baby and seems pleased. Not sure how they structure the deal, but the basic idea is to allow independent artists to get most of the money.

None of these sites solve the much larger problem of artist marketing, IMO. That's the one service that the record companies offer to the artists that no one else can get close to (in part because they lock competitors out of radio access, for example). There's room in the market for someone to do that, but they're going to have to find other means of getting to the customer other than radio (sites like Epitonic.com are a good step in that direction).

That's all for now.

>I'd rather spend some hard cash buying music online or in the local record store

Me too. Its somewhat hypocritical to condemn the RIAA and keep sucking the top 40 teat. There are plenty of indie bands out there which not only sound great (of course music taste is subjective), but also sell CDs for 10 dollars and throw eight dollar concerts. Its not like its hard to find lots of indie music.

I'm getting tired of hearing how we can appease the RIAA. They don't want a truce, they want you to buy their shiny CDs at 16 bucks a pop, listen to their radio stations and commercials, and go see their overpriced shows plus play the ticketmaster tax.

Capitalism is supposed to decentralize power, the RIAA is as centralized as you can get. Cut them out, ignore their products, and give your money to other markets.

Even if selling cycles was 10x more profitable, they still wouldn't got for it. Maintaining the current system is much more profitable and they're already commited to DRM and already told MP3 traders to piss off.

Totally agree. I bought my last two albums after hearing tracks on Epitonic. I've listend to a lot more tracks from there I enjoyed, but not quite enough to buy an album. I've also listened to utter rubbish as well of course, but then this site let me find that out before I bought.

I have no commercial relationship to the site, nor am I suggesting this site is unique. But as the parent poster says, why steal stuff if you can try things out for free anyway?

Cheers,
Ian

Depends what style of music you like. Some good places to check out are sites like epitonic & insound. They carry or have reviews of lots of good indie stuff, and a wide range of styles.

If you like punk/indie rock/hardcore, check out Dischord, Reptillian, Ebullition, Level Plane, Magic Bullet, Kill Rock Stars, K Records, Drag City, Happy Couples Never Last, Three One G, Load Records, Robotic Empire, Sound Virus, Exotic Fever, Lovitt... There are hundreds more. Most of these labels have MP3s of their bands, so check em out and see if you like em.

If you like metal, check out Relapse or Hydrahead.

Some of my favorite bands (which you should be able to find in the above sites) include Tragedy, Orchid, the Oath, Saetia, Page 99, Usurp Synapse, Q and Not U, Fugazi, Lightning Bolt, Books Lie, Killsadie, Pig Destroyer, Mastodon... and the list goes on. (Note : I didn't check all the links, just typed what I was pretty sure they were. Use google if one you want is broken.)

Epitonic.com is an excellent resource for discovering the best independent and eclectic music on the web today. I'm amazed that it hasn't been mentioned yet...

You can stream a couple of tracks from each artist. The best thing about the website is that there are extremely well-written articles on everybody, that there are valid associations (i.e. links) between similar artists, and that only the best and innovative artists are reviewed on the site. A great way to cut through the crap and mundane.

Nothing else I've seen mentioned here is as comprehensive (at least what's on the web).

Take a look at Epitonic Radio for a wide variety of non-corporate music. They have a "build your own radio station" site that was put together by folks that like innovative music. It's helped me discover a number of new and interesting bands, and I say that as a vinyl and CD junkie with over 1000 albums in my personal collection.

It's one of those things I wish I had invented myself. Check out the variety of music they offer (no, I don't work for them... just a happy camper):

Sites like Epitonic and Parasol have steaming audio and are not 'radio' per se. Parasol is a distributor and Epitonic is a site like MP3.com but with a more condensed selection of signed indie artists (not the myriad of DIY stuff that might be fun to wade through at MP3.com, but since you said google was dense, then this is a valid comment). Epitonic's radio stream is cool because you can listen to what they have programmed or 'walk through' genre, labels etc or create a playlist for the broadcast.

Allmusic is very good at guiding yo to stuff you might like. By checking roots, influences, followers and similar artist of an act that you like you might stumble on some new stuff.

Weblogs, forums... of course.

Then there is the old reliable. Magzines, college radio and record store clerks.

Some of my favorite mags: Magnet, Wire, Signal to Noise and CMJ.

You must have some local college stations... some of them do internet streaming if there is none near you. Local to me (Northampton, MA) there is WAMH and WMUA.

There are a few great record stores that send out new release emails of obscure titles. Also, they have employee lists. I have bought many titles without listen by looking at the employee lists. If 10 people that work in the store say it is great, then it more than likely is. Here are two great stores on each coast: Forced Exposure in Boston (click on "Employee Top 10") & Aquarius Records in San Fran (click on "Favorites" for each employee)... for both sites, sign up for the email updates for weekly new releases.

If anyone is into Free Jazz, check out my site.

epitonic

splendid

Try Epitonic. Quite a few gems that I've found there have pointed me towards new groups/artists and even genres I didn't know I liked. It's been the inspiration for quite a number of my CD purchases!

Epitonic features legal tracks from signed bands, with a comprehensive set of "suggestions" and "similar atists".

I've found a lot of good stuff through them, but Epitonic is limited to a few specific genres: indie, electronic, jazz, and other progressive type styles.

Amen brother, here's some more:

• Carrot Top Records
• SecretlyCanadian
• K Records
• Epitonic

Check out epitonic. They've got sample MP3's, and have a lot of variety. Lots of stuff with guitars and drums, too :)

First off, there are more unsigned and indie artists out there than there are mainstream acts. That means you're comparing a small group of very well funded artists against a legion of non-funded artists and coming to the conclusion that 99% of non-mainstream artists must suck.

I really don't know where to begin with this. If you find Eminem "perceptive" then I guess you've found your proper niche. In the meantime I'll enjoy indie and local music which I think is far superior to top 40 in most instances. 99% is a pretty serious number. I can't honestly see how someone can think a large indie label like Bloodshot records or Matador *might* have one decent artist. I find that mainstream labels have much worse odds.

Obligatory epitonic.com mention.

Epitonic does this, they are free, have a portable music box that you can listen to from anywhere and lots of streaming stations that cater to any musical taste. And, most of the stuff is indie, as the big artists are probably not even allowed to use the service even if they wanted to.

Epitonic Radio

> The RIAA only cares about its own music

True, so logically the best way to go about getting music on your terms is to disconnect yourself from their artists.

I'm listening to epitonic's webcast right now at 128kbs and will buy a couple albums just from hearing the tracks on this channel and also from the free downloads available at epitonic. InSound.com does the same thing, but their webcast isn't as nice as the hundreds (if not thousands) of tracks available at epitonic.

RIAA alternatives have existed for a long time and will continue to thrive regardless of the games the RIAA keeps playing.

I've had no problems with download speed--usually maxing out my DSL, certainly faster than any p2p networks I've used. The downloaded songs are just mp3s, so you keep them forever. Selection doesn't rival audiogalaxy, alas, but they certainly have a lot outside of the mainstream.

I can say the same about many free MP3 sites, not the least of which is Epitonic.

And if you never leave the house like many of us, try Epitonic

Same deal, but you don't have to leave the house, and if the band sucks, rm is cheaper than biting the cover charge.

There are a few major label acts on there, but most of it is small time stuff. Highly recommend The Legendary Pink Dots, and Danielson Famile.

Epitonic.com has an excellent runthrough (playable in Winamp or any MP3 player) for each of the major genres in electronic music.

Another important item (posted to NWR on Mon, 13 Sep 1998 18:33:08 -0700 (PDT) ) was a list of Top 100 DJs In The World, adjusted for hype and cobbled together in response to the ever inane, almost exclusively talent-free and over-inflated annual Mixmag Top 100 DJs list, which exalts people like Oakenfold, Sasha, Digweed, etc. IMHO, such charlatans no longer do anything to further turntable art and culture (if they ever did at all, that is), other than to dilute its hard-earned significance. Admittedly, this list contains a slight north-western North America slant. Nonetheless, it also contains all the necessary world-renowned acts of any actual worth.

After this, I strongly recommend EPITONIC.COM, where you will spend days, if not months edumacatin' yo-self. SHOUTCAST.COM will also provide you with more music than you can shake a stick at in terms of streams. To download, nothing beats SOULSEEK.ORG in terms of the users' geekily-high encoding rates and unbelievably pedantic album/track-naming schemes.

While it's all downloading, check out the grand-daddy of them all: HYPERREAL.ORG.

One word of warning, however: electronic music is virtually boundless and can take most of your lifetime to discover. I started listening some 13 years ago, and to this day I simply cannot keep up with all of it. Good luck!

1) Epitonic good selection of well known artists and lots of information about each artist so you can read up before you decide to download.

2) ArtistDirect a small selection of electronic artists

3) Amazon has a number of MP3s to download.

4) IUMA has many lesser known acts

5) MP3.COM for the really adventurous with lots of time and patience you might find some gems mixed among the numerous less-inspired artists...

I don't post much because I'll just get laughed at, but this is one topic I know a thing or three about.
These artists represent some of the best in electronic music including Acid Jazz, Ambient, Trip Hop, Drum 'n' Bass, and House.
Air, Amon Tobin, Bill Laswell, Björk, Bobby Hughes Experience, Brian Eno, Boozoo Bajou, Cibo Matto, Coldcut, DJ Mark Farina, DJ Spooky, Dusted, dZihan & Kamien, Femi Kuti, Fila Brazillia, Howie B, Kid Loco, Kruder & Dorfmeister, L.S.G, LTJ Bukem, Massive Attack, Nightmares on Wax, Prefuse 73, Roni Size, Smith & Mighty, Syrup, Talvin Singh, Terra Nova Thievery Corporation, Underworld
On the web check out betalounge, groovetech, epitonic, and thedownbeat

It's not exactly the most undeground site in the world, but the quality of the music and info is first class - the BBC Radio 1 website covers the UK's #1 modern music station. During the day it plays very mainstream material, but at nights a load of specialist shows come on including a lot of dance music.

Pete Tong's friday night show is considered something of a trendsetter, while shows like Gile's Petersons Worldwide, Mary Anne Hobbes Breezeblock and the Unstoppable Annie Nightingale explore other parts of the music. This week they're also spending the weekend at the love Parade in berlin - so expect lots of tough teutonic tech trance.

But! Best of all - Radio 1 is the home of the Essential Mix - every week they give over 2 hours of airtime to a featured DJ who gets to play what they like, without any Ads or jingles to get in the way. These shows are legendary, search on your favourite p2p network and you'll find them. The BBC even somewhat encourages taping of the shows - they used to get tape inlays published in major Dance music Magazines like Mixmag and Musik. If you can't find those then tracklistings.org have a fairly complete archive of who played what and when.

But... if you want to stay legit then Radio 1 has started storing the shows for a week so you can go in any time and listen to what you missed - it's all in real audio.... but don't balk just yet - Radio 1 was one of teh BBC stations participating in the OGG test earlier this year - so maybe if you e-mail the right people often enough then you'll get it back.

Other online dance music places I'd recommend are Groovetech which for me is mainly a place to buy vinyl, but they feature a lot of radio shows, extended samples and interviews. LiveDJs.com used to be good, but has kinda died out - I even played a few gigs there. Epitonic has a neat feature for newbies - they have little streams which basically introduce particular genres of music - they also have quite a lot of free tracks to try.

On the Musical recommendations side - I'm big into breakbeat right now - look for artists like Hybrid, BT, Plump DJ's or compilations like Y4K. I'd love to point people at a .ogg of a CD mix I did on www.djsnm.com - but the last time I put a direct link from slashdot I almost exceeded my Bandwidth limits.

I've been a DJ for years, I plyed old school raves in the UK, evaded police and escaped with my record collection.... and I still play the latest stuff now I'm in San Francisco. Come out to An Sibin (1176 Sutter at Polk) on Monday nights and catch my weekly gig.

Your note made me want to mention Epitonic It's the best place to find legal MP3s that rock.

I recommend checking out The Danielson Famile and The Legendary Pink Dots. Both great stuff.

I have no affiliation with any of the aforementioned things, it's just a great way to get away from supporting the RIAA without listening to only classical music.

(Who listens to that punk kid M&M anyway?)

At first, Altnet will market video and audio clips. Brilliant is negotiating with music labels and movie studios to market their material as well. The files will be copy-protected in some way, using Microsoft's digital rights management encryption technology. Restrictions could vary with the type of file or its source; a record label may let you copy a file once (onto a portable player, for example), or play it only a certain number of times.

It's good to see that record labels have finally come to their senses and are starting to use the Internet as a marketting tool. An example of this is how silverchair released their single 'The Greatest View' as a digital download to great success. However it is a pity that such downloads usually have some form of DRM like they stop playing after a certain date, but I guess some record labels aren't prepared to hand out freebies even if it means potentially increasing sales through exposure. On the otherhand other labels, usually the smaller/independent labels are quite happy to hand out free tracks with no constraints at sites like Epitonic

Speaking of Microsoft's digital rights management encryption technology, I wonder if Microsoft have released a patch for it since it was cracked last October

One thing I found very interesting reading the article, which I had not considered beforehand, was as the author pointed out.

The digital videos they shot in 1999 may be unpayable on their desktop and laptop computers.

This is better further elaborated in the following passage...

There are some problems with this scheme. If Prince-ton computer scientist Edward Felten is right, a watermark that's invisible to the audience yet easily detected by machines will be relatively easy to remove. To put it simply, if you can't see it, you won't miss it when it's gone. Which is why the components of new home entertainment systems probably would have to be designed not to play unwatermarked content. Otherwise, all you've done is develop an incentive for both inquisitive hackers and copyright "pirates" to find a way to strip out the watermarks. But if the new entertainment systems won't play content without watermarks, they won't work with old digital videos or MP3s.

Now assuming the above is true and consider the worst case scenario of this bill coming to pass. Would this mean all those legitimate MP3s I downloaded from Epitonic and the Star Wars fan films would no longer be playable on new hardware since they lacked a watermark?

If this the case how would free content continue to exist and operate in this system, as they would obviously have to use watermarks just like copyrighted works if they want to be playable on the new hardware DRM systems. Ofcourse this sort of thing would piss of consumers and even some content providers.

hexagon sun directory

Oh, and in case it ain't obvious, while I work for Emusic, I don't speak for them.

It seems to me that a strategy of lots of different things with a narrow appeal can acheive a wide appeal. Whether an indie-only strategy would work (or is even desireable) I don't really know. But then Emusic isn't trying to be indie-only.

I don't have access to financial numbers at Emusic, which is good, because I wouldn't be allowed to talk about them if I did. I do know that people here are pretty happy with the way numbers of subscribers are ramping up. Supposedly EMusic has a record in the business for numbers of subscribers.

And actually, this is pretty impressive considering the weird absence of any media attention to Emusic. They keep running stories like "The online music biz is now switching to the subscription model! It'll be here in only a few years!".

By the way, a freind of mine points out that epitonic has some pretty cool music up, evidentally available for free download. I don't know if they're trying to be ad supported, or if they're just volunteers or what, but they're worth a look.

It's something akin to an online CMJ, but unlike CMJ, it's free.Furthermore unlike CMJ, the music they pimp doesn't SUCK TREMENDOUS ASS!

I'm sure it's been stated several times here, but I think that this is what the RIAA is scared of the most. Why would anyone pay ~$16 for a one over-marketed, over-played, generic, piece-of-crap song when they can now easily find something more interesting outside the RIAA monopolised mainstream?

The thing that prevents the RIAA from making singles available online is that they know that most of their products/artists, are only good for that one song. I think this is why you can almost never find a CD single of a Top 40 artist. They know that if people could buy singles then people wouldn't buy the album unless it was *gasp* actually good.

But you already knew that.. Preaching to the choir...

---

I don't know about you, but the last I checked, I haven't seen any free music with an open license for copying out of all the countless thousands of titles available, so their product was designed from the beginning specifically to transport pirated music.

Huh. Imagine that. Not one? What about live concert recordings, obscure techno songs, independent label music, free song giveaways? Hell, go to epitonic.com or riffage.com and you will find hundreds of songs that are available for free, and freely distributable. ANd these are not unsigned artists like on mp3.com, they are mostly signed bands on smaller labels.

There are plenty of bands that are willing to give there music away for free (or at least a few songs) in the hopes of finding fans. Most people seem to forget that.

And what their doing isn't anything new- Hotline, FTP servers, IRC and even AOL have facilitated the sharing of copywritten material for years. The only difference is that Napster is much better at it, and easier to use. (I know someone's going to point out that ftp and aol have other uses, too, and it's true. But Hotline is basically the same as Napster or Gnutella, just not as easy to use).

The problem I have with Napster (and the one area that I agree with Lars) is this: Napster is using their popularity to try and go public and make lots of money, and their popularity is because of the copywritten songs on their network. That sucks. I don't really have problems with Gnutella, because no one is making any money off of it. I think Gnutella?Napster programs are much more like new radio than anything else, for me at least. The kind of music that I listen to, the artists don't generally mind if their songs are on the net because it's all DIY anyway, with no record labels involved. They make all their money from touring and t-shirts, and kids listening to MP3s brings more kids to the shows. I can see how people in one-hit-wonder boy bands might have a problem with Napster, though...

Josh Sisk

j(geek and hip hopper--and on mp3.com).