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People must have the same tired replies in a file and don't bother updating them.

## $30-$35 disk prices?

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

Check the top 20 Blu rays: They are $14 - $25 Most are under $20. These are not garbage titles. Batman begins is #1 BR for $17.95.

Right now there is typically only a small premium for the Blu Ray. Soon it will be negligible. Why they heck wouldn't you get blu ray when the price is more or less equivalent?

## Not enough quality difference.

Seriously is everyone blind? I can see the difference on my 20" computer monitor. On really big screens DVDs show serious issues. Actually compare the back to back is astounding. People used to watch VHS and think it was fine too.

I don't have a BR yet, but I think buy a DVD at this point is silly when the price is so close for a much better source. A year from now the prices will probably be equal and we will still see posts railing about $35 blu rays.

Here's what happened since HD-DVD caved in-

• Blu-ray players have gotten more expensive. In some cases, a lot more expensive

Rubbish. There was a small increase in price on players as the price of blu laser diodes went up, but there has been no consistent or significant increase in Blu-Ray players. Last week you could buy Blu-Ray players in stores for about $299. I would love to see how that is a "a lot more expensive".

• Blu-ray sales, paradoxically, have collapsed

Are you just making up your arguments as you go or are you just full of it? Take a look at this one and tell me that Blu-Ray sales are collapsing.

Over the last 30 days Blu sales on Amazon have gone from -70 to -30 or -20 vs standard DVD staying fixed at around -10. I fail to see how that is a "collapse" in sales.

• I find it hard even finding a single Blu-ray player for sale.

So you never leave your house any more?

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/index.cfm

This shows actual movie sales are fairly close on the two platforms, despite the disparity in the number of players out there, but BluRay is still consistently in the lead, and remember they had to come from behind since they launched later (and at a higher price point).

Again, with every major movie studio save for one backing BluRay, sales numbers, and the Blockbuster, Target and Best Buy decisions, it is apparent a winner has emerged. HD-DVD will continue on life support for a while, but again, why buy into a losing format?

2 things that should be pointed out for the north americas 1. Both PS3 and Xbox 360 are selling at about the same rate. Wii is selling slighty more then both combined on a weekly basis. Wii is absolutely going to crush both as it screams past xbox360 in a few months. http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?cons1=Wii&reg1=All &cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=X360&reg3=All&align=1 2. HD-DVD standalone vs bluray standalone 150,000 to 100,000. http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/news_press _release,119772.shtml XB360 addon vs PS3 sold was 1 to 5 for last known data giving it about 310,000 to 1,550,000 Totals: Blu ray ~ 1,650,000 HD-DVD ~ 460,000 Which has resulted in the following disc sales numbers http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/index.cfm Which means Walmart has to sell ALOT of players to catch up to the blu ray install base.

You don't tell the public that a poorly selling, expensive product is going to be $100 cheaper next month

Generally you have the right idea but PS3 sales are actually not all that bad - it's currently at a higher sales rank than the 360 on Amazon, and has been since March 23rd when Amazon finally was able to keep stock around.

I think you are right about the day of announcement of the PS3 price cut, but would further predict that it will come the day after the day Microsoft announces a 360 price cut, which will of course be same day Microsoft also cuts prices. Sony and Microsoft are waiting til one does a cut before the other one, and both are enjoying higher profits (and unknoably lower sales) as a result.

The PS3 is still ahead of the XBox 360 sales at Amazon (look at the trend data for the PS3 and 360 sales rank in the "primary Systems" category), as it has been ever since Amazon was able to keep the PS3 in stock starting about March 23rd.

I think Sony is holding off on any price move until Microsoft looks like it's doing something similar. Instead the most recent move from Microsoft is releasing an even more expensive version of the 360, so that the gap to get a console and a Blu-Ray player at the same time is just about $100 between the two systems, a closer margin than ever. In essence Microsoft's release of the Elite has created the effect of reducing the cost of a PS3!

So it's a game of corporate chicken, with Microsoft and Sony daring each other to lower the price and stop recouping as much of the R&D costs as they have been.

The article mentions the Wii, but I find that irrelevant to this discussion as the Wii is on a separate path. I think in the end it will sell more consoles than either the 360 or the PS3 (perhaps combined) but buying a Wii will not stop anyone from buying a 360 or a PS3 who would be so inclined - a lot of Nintendos growth over the other consoles will be from people buying the Wii who would not look at a 360 or a PS3 anyway. So the Wii is not a threat to sales of the 360 or the PS3.

I also kind of expcect some kind of price reduction around November, or at least some kind of bundle at the same price. I could go for a Guitar Hero II PS3 bundle, or a Ratchet & Clank bundle...

I forgot that you don't have to trust my observation at all - that same site has a page that specifically shows the data over time for sales rank vs. quantity on hand - for the PS3 and also the 360 (though I'm not sure I quite trust the quantity data for the 360 in early January).

A very interesting site if you like to follow trends. Not without flaws, sometimes they drop data but overall pretty interesting.

I forgot that you don't have to trust my observation at all - that same site has a page that specifically shows the data over time for sales rank vs. quantity on hand - for the PS3 and also the 360 (though I'm not sure I quite trust the quantity data for the 360 in early January).

A very interesting site if you like to follow trends. Not without flaws, sometimes they drop data but overall pretty interesting.

Just a point was all, as to why they might have thought that. But as I said I don't think they ever gave the market a real chance, and think they pulled that model for other reasons with that one as cover.

I think they were not sure they could really sell as many as they wanted at $600 as $500 - once they saw they could outsell the 360 at the $600 price point they decided to stick with that model to make things simpler for retailers and Sony. Sony (and Microsoft) do not really care about the Wii I think, since they are aimed at such different markets... I see next gen gaming being the Wii + at least one other "power" console for many gamers (though probably lots of casual gaming households with only Wii's).

if they're dropping it due to poor demand, they should drop the 60GB model too:P

Wouldn't that mean asking Microsoft to drop the 360 as well? The PS3 has been outselling the 360 every day since Amazon finally had them in stock a few weeks ago (scroll down to "Sales rank of the primary Systems").

And yes, the Wii is still trouncing them both.

I wouldn't call myself a fanboy as I don't own Blu-Ray or HD-DVD yet. I'm waiting for things to sort out. You just can't argue with the fact Blu-Ray now has (or will have soon) 3 million players in the field and HD-DVD hasn't even hit .5 yet.

Real HD-DVD fanboys (see the discussions over at Eproductwars (DVD)) keep blather on about higher attachment rates.

If you are loosing sales disc sales 4 to 1 and player sales 7 or 8 to one and new releases 2 to 1, well it doesn't matter what the "attachment rate" is. It has been 3 months now since Blu-Ray took the lead and it when from 2:1 to 3:1 to now 4:1.

The best HD-DVD can hope to accomplish is stay in the running through the 2007 Christmas season. Maybe, Maybe Universal will stay HD-DVD only, in which case you either buy both machines or a combo. But there is no way Blu-Ray will lose.

Whine about how it isn't a fair comparison because of title releases, but it's not about it being a fair fight. If HD-DVD can't match Blu-Ray title releases, it loses. It doesn't matter if SONY has to spend more to win the war. HD-DVD only has lower initial player cost going for it, and that will matter less and less as Blu-Ray prices come down.

When you're already staggering things like Microsoft's on the cheap HD-DVD screw up don't help. And yes I repeat -- HD-DVD was rushed and skimped on and the first players were a loading nightmare (2 minutes plus). HD-DVD was intended to be the cheap good enough format, and now they want to be perceived of has having the same quality.

By Christmas I expect to be watching Blu-Ray.

BTW, it doesn't bother me you came off a bit "rantish" It is always nice to get a response and have a little bit of a heated debate.

Fast And The Furious, The: Tokyo Drift (HD-DVD) is region code 1. You're wrong. While most HD-DVDs are currently "all region" discs that won't last for long. The current Toshiba hardware isn't checking region codes but there certainly are region codes in the media and it will become standard.
The DVD Steering Committee is making every effort to include region coding in the next HD-DVD standard too.

Unfortunately for the early adopters, HD-DVD is a format that is going to die quickly. Sony has seen to that already. This also shows when you look at Amazon sales figures. The top eight selling HD-DVDs are not selling as well as the top eight Blu-Ray discs. Sorry to say, but your format was dead before it took off. HD-DVD is the Beta of this decade.

I would not predict doom though for HDDVD quite yet. The article stated that this list is updated every hour. So a BluRay disc tops the top 10 for just one hour. Big deal. Its a huge movie and is going to sell well when it first goes on sale. My question is where did it stand in sales an hour later, the next day, and so forth. Is it even still in the top 100?

The easiest way to keep track is to watch the running sales ran graphs on eproductwars.com.

Sales rank for Casino Royale is still 8.

I have no connection to the site owners, I just think the data is interesting.

But what you'll see if you've been following the comparison trends at:
    http://eproductwars.com/dvd/
is that Blu-Ray passed HD-DVD early this year, and the sales gap is generally widening. It's not just a fluke of the Casino Royale release.

Couple this with the anemic release schedule for upcoming HD-DVDs compared to Blu-Ray, and it looks like Blu-Ray is on a pretty solid path to trouncing HD-DVD. I say this as the owner of an HD-DVD XBox addon (but not PS3 or any other Blu-Ray).

Sony has finally, it seemed, ironed out demand problems - Feb 21st is the first day that Amazon had them in stock for more than a day as you can see in the primary systems sales graph for the three consoles (scroll down near the bottom)...

The thing to note there is that since the console finally had availability, it's been consistently at a pretty good sales rank (around eight to ten according to the same chart) and in fact higher in sales rank than the 360. Given that it's selling in healthy numbers, why reduce the price? Even all last month when the PS3 was not as available, it still sold almost as many systems as the 360.

I would like one cheaper myself (I do not yet own any of the three next-gen consoles). But if people are buying them, then I guess the price isn't so bad as people here think. A lot of people are thinking of the PS3 as a $250 game system along with a $250 Blu-Ray player, and from that standpoint the system is a pretty good value. If the PS3 sales do pick up beyond the level of the 360 wil there then be calls for Microsoft to reduce the 360 price?

The PS3 60GB model has an amazing sales rank of 58

So while you can find them in some stores, the PS3 must be doing something right if people are willing to pay $100 above retail to get them through Amazon.

Take a look at the longer term trends - Blu-Ray is not catching up through any bounce, but from real and steady growth in movies and in players.

These are numbers that show Blu-Ray consistently on top, for almost a month now - and continuing to grow. Don't forget the coupon still required you to spend money, it was not a "free" movie - and anyone even using that coupon is likley to buy more titles as well since they have it rigged up to play movies.

The only people who really know how well either format are doing though I think is Netflix - that's the first place HD-DVD or Blu-Ray owners would turn, buying movies slowly as they found ones they like.

Yes there are units in stores now.

However, PS3 sales are still somewhat lower than they could be, as evidenced by the lack of shipping units on Amazon. Any time Amazon gets a number of them to sell, sales surge - in-between that, third-party sellers list units for about $100 more.

That said even if there were wide availability of the console the Wii would probably outsell it just because it's a lot cheaper. An interesting place to keep track is here (look at core system sales lower in the page), though as noted the figures are a little unrealistic because they are based on Amazon sales.

We aren't talking about console sales. We are talking about Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD sales.

For the fight you mentioned, there is a better place to look for that as well. One interesting thing to note there is that demand for the PS3 is artificially suppressed on that graph by Amazon not having stock ready to buy all the time.

We aren't talking about console sales. We are talking about Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD sales.

For the fight you mentioned, there is a better place to look for that as well. One interesting thing to note there is that demand for the PS3 is artificially suppressed on that graph by Amazon not having stock ready to buy all the time.

An interesting site to keep track of a few battles like this is eProductwars.com. In particular, they have a section that tracks various Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD stats - mostly based on Amazon data it would seem. It seems to track with what the original article is saying.

It's really not at all surprising Blu-Ray would be pulling substantially ahead and growing, with every PS3 sold being another Blu-Ray player in a consumers home. I know two people at work that have bought PS3's and they moth make extensive use of the Blu-Ray feature. Standalone players are a tougher sell at the moment with still not that much in the way of selection, and console add-ons (like the 360 HD-DVD player) never sell to a very significant percentage of the user base of any system - and that's when they can be used to play games!

You know who really has the pulse of this fight though? Netflix. And that data, as far as I know, cannot be found in the open anywhere. They are the first place people would go for HD-DVD or Blu-Ray movies I think, as people turn to Netflix to check it out first if they have a PS3 and are curious, and would also go there to defray costs and find out which discs were worth buying.

Popularity in google doesn't necessarily mean sales.

According to dvd empire and Eproducwars blu-ray is currently outselling hd-dvd, an effect widely attributed to Ps3 owners buying HD movies. The average blu-ray movie costs less than hd-dvd in amazon as well.

Here's Debbie does dallas in blu-ray, porn in 1080p and multiple angles.

In a objective comparison, both formats are about the same(excluding player costs which will eventually be similar), except for future catalog:

Blu-ray
HD-DVD

Well as with all statistics you can attempt to tilt it one way or another by looking at one small slice and ignoring the rest. Also this is very fluid.
BTW have a look at the combined top 10:
http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/Top.cfm

7 of the top 10 are Blu Ray titles. HD has the number one with "The Departed", but 2-5 are all Blu Ray and 3-5 maybe unique to Blu Ray titles. That would be a big factor if choosing today. They are really close in sales but Blu Ray has more unique titles.

The one thing you can draw is that it IS VERY CLOSE right now.

For those discounting PS3s impact. I have neither system, my last console was a Coleco Vision. If I were to buy an HD player today, I would get a PS3 as it is the same price as an HD player and I get game machine thrown in for free. Also PS3 will be on the market for years to come, I am assured of future upgrades/patches/improvements for years to come. I bet a lot of people are considering this.

That number being one, and the reason being that Sony are including it as a loss-leading feature in the PS3. Exclude PS3 sales, and the remaining standalone players from all companies are being massively outsold by Toshiba's HD-DVD players. HD-DVDs are also a tiny fraction of the cost of Blu-Ray discs to make, because you just press them in a DVD pressing plant, rather than the long process of coating layers that BD-ROMs require.

Why does it matter what you think it costs to make HD-DVD's, when Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs cost the same to buy? Obviously the difference is not as vast as you think.

As for "massively outselling", that's simply wrong when you think about the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player, and probably not even correct if you count only standalone players. What source do you have to back that up? My thoughts on that would be if HD-DVD drives were really outselling Blu-Ray units by such huge numbers, why are sales for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD titles currently about equal with Blu-Ray leading?

Blu-Ray was designed as a system of blank discs to go in recording devices; it's only if you're making rewriteable discs that the costs start to even out, and where you start to want 50Gb of space. The hardware companies behind it believed that recording broadcast HD was going to be the future, not pre-recorded discs any more. I'm guessing they're wrong, and if you want to record from the TV then you'll use a hard-disc.

If you think about it, Blu-Ray disc costs are going to fall faster because millions of PS3 games need to be pressed, which lowers the cost of movie discs as well.

If you want to record TV of course you're going to use the HD. But if you want to deliver a very large HD movie to your living room in the shortest and least aggravating way, a physical disc is still required - and also good for sharing with friends.

There still is a lot of value to consumers in the largest possible physical writable disc. That's why both Apple and Dell and even HP back Blu-Ray (Apple and Dell to a greater degree than HP).

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/

From the looks of things it is extremely close, Blu Ray is coming on strong recently.

Your reasons are probably why Blu-Ray will win if Blu-Ray wins but that doesn't mean that HD-DVD won't win...

Currently, in most sales categories HD-DVD has an edge over Blu-Ray ( link ) even though there are nearly 1 Million PS3 systems in people's homes. One thing you could assume is that the people who are willing to spend $500/$600 on a movie player find the three options (XBox 360 + HD-DVD, Stand alone HD-DVD player, PS3) about as compelling with a slight edge to HD-DVD.

Now, much like videogames, the Hard-Core early adopter does not bring success to a format; it is the average consume who is not going to pay much more than $200 for a movie player that will determine which format is successful. HD-DVD will likely be in this range in the near future (12-18 months) while it will take Blu-Ray much longer to be in a similar price range; if consumers run to HD-DVD rather than wait for Blu-Ray the HD-DVD format will win. Movie Studios (like Videogame publishers) have very little interest in making a format popular, and will rapidly throw support behind any format that is becoming reasonably popular; they assumed 10 Million PS3 systems would be sold before 2006 ended which led to a lot of the support from studios (and we know how that ended).

It's consumer suport, not studio or hardware developer support, which will determine what format will win. No one knows how consumers will react so it is impossible to say one format will beat the other.

HD-DVD really has Universal and Microsoft as the primary backers - and Microsoft didn't even have the balls to include the player in the 360, the only consumer device they actually make that could achieve some inroads! We all know how successful console add-ons are in the long run.

Maybe Microsoft didn't want to delay their product by a year in order to wait for the format to be complete, didn't want to increase the production cost by $200 to include the format into their system, and wanted to be able to supply more than 200,000 systems at launch.