Wii Outsells PS3, Blue-ray Outsells HD DVD

njkid1, a regular contributor of GameDaily articles, passed us word that the Wii is handily outselling the PS3 in Japan. Famitsu parent company Enterbrain has figures showing that Nintendo sold 405,000 Wii units last month, while Sony sold 148,000 units of the PS3. While this is probably not something the folks at Sony are overjoyed about, they did have reason to crow this week. They've now announced that cumulative Blu-ray sales have passed the HD DVD format for the first time. Gamasutra has the word, from Sony itself, with some interesting supporting information. Most PS3 owners, it seems, have used their system to watch HD movies. Some full 80 percent plan to buy further HD titles in the future. This is further support for the VideoScan sales figures we discussed last week.

Comments

Re:and...

[theStorminMormon]

I, for one, am shocked.

-stormin

Wow?

[realilskater]

Is it really surprising that something that costs less than half the price of a PS3 and offers a completely new style of game play is selling more units?

Re:Wow?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it really surprising that something that costs less than half the price of a PS3 and offers a completely new style of game play is selling more units?

That really depends on who you ask ...

I read an article a few days ago that stated analysts still anticipated the Wii would only sell (slightly) more than the Gamecube did and the PS3 would control 75% of the market; at the same time ask many gamers "Which of the PS3, XBox 360 and Wii will you buy next" and I'm certain the Wii will be dominant in a question like that ...

Re:Wow?

[Weedlekin]

"analysts still anticipated the Wii would only sell (slightly) more than the Gamecube did and the PS3 would control 75% of the market"

That's because analysts have demonstrated an ability to be wrong so often that it cannot be explained by probability alone, and must therefore be due to some sort of supernatural power that they posses.

Re:Wow?

[7Prime]

While that may be the case, this was not a majority or an overwhelmingly vocal theory among analysts. We heard a lot from both sides. Most game analysts were cautious, but some thought to use it to push their opinion and personal philosophy about the future of gaming, and now they're looking silly because of it... well, at least the Wii haters, that is.

Currently, things are pretty slow for both systems, as we're currently in the post-launch lull. So now, both sides of the isle are worried that their system is going to die. All of this is to be expected... with every console there's a 3-4 month lull after the launch window, and everyone is screaming that their console is going to die unless they get some good games fast. Just go to the Nintendo forums, and you'll see a bunch of piss-ants crying about how the Wii is going to die now that there are "no good new games"... yeah, whatever. I'm sure the same is happening on the PS3 end of things, although the PS3 camp is a little more on the defensive right now, and probably won't outwardly say those kindsa things.

Re:Wow?

[Weedlekin]

"Most game analysts were cautious, but some thought to use it to push their opinion and personal philosophy about the future of gaming, and now they're looking silly because of it..."

Actually, I think it was more a case of the usual analyst bullshit practice of predicting future market trends by looking at past ones. This was what resulted in the Internet bubble at the end of the last century, where analysts confidently predicted that stock prices in any company that sold something on the Internet would continue to rise because _they had been rising_, resulting in both individual and corporate investors paying hundreds of dollars each for shares in companies that were selling at a loss to compete with bricks-and-mortar outfits that didn't have to factor mailing costs into their retail prices because people go there and pick the stuff up themselves.

Re:Wow?

[GaryPatterson]

Oddly enough, few analysts are multi-millionaires.

This is a critical point to remember when you read their commentary, as they're not smart enough to put their money on their words.

The best analyst of all would show a proven record of success, highlighted with comments like "I bought that stock at $n and sold at 15x$n which is what I knew would happen."

Hmm... few of those about.

Re:Wow?

[Weedlekin]

"Oddly enough, few analysts are multi-millionaires."

A bunch of people who are consistently wrong about financial matters not being multi-millionaires isn't odd. Odd would be lots of them being multi-millionaires _despite_ being wrong all the time!

"they're not smart enough to put their money on their words."

I reckon they're far smarter than the people who _do_ put money on their words after paying them for an expensive report.

"The best analyst of all would show a proven record of success, highlighted with comments like "I bought that stock at $n and sold at 15x$n which is what I knew would happen."

Anyone with that level of success is unlikely to stay in the analyst business though, because writing all those reports takes up time that could otherwise be devoted to sitting in a bathtub full of Don Perignon and beautiful naked women while wearing a money hat. Thus, those who still call themselves "analysts" are by definition idiots, because all the clever ones retired at 30 to spend their lives moving between luxurious and exotic locations in gold executive jets.

Re:Wow?

[gonzoxl5]

I'd love to know their basis for such a statement,

I'm personally expecting the Wii to outsell the PS3 by 5:1 over the next three years, most people on here would probably think the same.

Re:Wow?

[Weedlekin]

"I'd love to know their basis for such a statement"

What statement? That analysts are full of BS? Just read what they say about anything, and you'll find plenty of "basis".

"I'm personally expecting the Wii to outsell the PS3 by 5:1 over the next three years"

Where in any of my posts did I say it wouldn't, or for that matter make any comment about the Wii or PS3, positive or negative?

Can you trade/rent games for PS3?

[CrazyJim1]

Some old slashdot post said it was illegal. Is there any truth to this?

Re:Can you trade/rent games for PS3?

[Aladrin]

http://www.gamefly.com/member/

GameFly thinks it's legal. I'm guessing their legal department made sure of it, first.

Re:Can you trade/rent games for PS3?

[Prien715]

Renting games (for any console) is illegal in Japan, so you may have just misread the country.

Re:Can you trade/rent games for PS3?

[crabbz]

My local video rental shop is renting PS3 titles now.

Re:Can you trade/rent games for PS3?

[cxreg]

Some old slashdot post said it was illegal. Is there any truth to this?

That's not even remotely true. Some old Zonk (read: FUD) post referred to a patent application by Sony which could be construed to mean that they were thinking about implementing copy protection measures which would prevent re-sale and renting, but no such claim was ever made in actuality.

PS3 games can be played on any PS3, any number of times. They're even further in the "right direction" than I'd have guessed; you can download purchased games from your PSN account onto up to 5 different PS3s (presumably for re-download if you get a second or a replacement machine, but still...)

Re:Can you trade/rent games for PS3?

[tepples]

Renting games (for any console) is illegal in Japan

Are the return policies any better in Japan? For the players who are unlucky enough to buy titles that have a show-stopper problem that reveals itself in 5 hours, does it really cost the equivalent of $10 per hour to play games? Why do the nationals of Japan find this fair?

It makes sense

[Sciros]

Given that there are no games to play on the PS3, it makes complete sense that people would be watching movies on it instead. There really has been nothing to push HD-DVD that much so I'm not surprised that Blu-Ray is winning in terms of sales. However, that may change as soon as less-expensive players are released that have more functionality, etc.

In any case, those sales numbers are probably too small right now to bring them any significant returns. I'd wait a year or two before considering whether Sony made a mistake with Blu-Ray or not.

Re:It makes sense

[goodenoughnickname]

See: PSP and UMD.

Re:It makes sense

[CastrTroy]

n any case, those sales numbers are probably too small right now to bring them any significant returns. I see articles every week saying BluRay is outselling HDDVD, or the other way around, they say that 80% of sales were BluRay, but they don't make any announcements about how many sales there were. I would like to know how many people are actually buying these discs, and I don't want units shipped. I would really like to know the number of people interested in BluRay/HDDVD. As it stands right now, I know absolutely nobody with a BluRay or HDDVD player (including a PS3). I also don't know anybody who is looking into buying one.

Re:It makes sense

[Ucklak]

And CD and 8MM video tape.

Re:It makes sense

[goodenoughnickname]

Huh?

I should have elaborated instead of sounding like a troll. When the PSP debuted, games were scant, but people wanted to use their new hardware so they bought what was in supply: UMD movies. Perhaps now the same thing is happening with the PS3 and Blu-Ray movies.

Re:It makes sense

[Trogre]

Well given this list of games for the PS3, perhaps 50% of which are crap, and this list for the Wii, about 90% of which are crap (or at least implemented poorly), I'd say you're talking nonsense.

Another thought: how many good Wii games are there that don't rely on that gimmicky remote control?

Re:It makes sense

[Danse]

Another thought: how many good Wii games are there that don't rely on that gimmicky remote control?

The PS2 controller was gimmicky at one time as well. Now it's basically the standard. Games are either good or not. Whether they rely on the controller or not doesn't really matter. It's still either a good/fun game or it isn't.

Re:It makes sense

[Anonymous Coward]

Another thought: how many good Wii games are there that don't rely on that gimmicky remote control?

How many games for any system don't rely on the input method?

Every game is going to be influenced by how you play it. Game designers embracing the new control style, rather than forcing a control method that doesn't work well with the Wii remote, is a good thing.

Percentages are misleading. The question is how many good games do they have and, going by the sales, most people seem to prefer the games on Wii.

Re:It makes sense

[Trogre]

...going by the sales, most people seem to prefer the games on Wii. ... or just can't afford a PS3.

Re:It makes sense

[Luthair]

Perhaps you haven't heard, UMD failed.

Pretty much history repeating itself...

[rsmoody]

Just like DVD, most people's first DVD player was a PS2. I was not one of them, I had a standalone DVD player a long time before the PS2 came out and found myself quite disappointed with the DVD playback of the PS2 in terms of quality and usability/controllability. I will not be buying a PS3 anytime soon and do not have a HDTV to see the difference even if I did get one so I would not be buying BlueRay movies. I think that more than anything, this is curiosity since they have the console and have the capability, the games are not so new now, they need to try something new with this $600 piece of hardware to give it some worth. I for one would like to know the sales numbers for standalone next-gen DVD players and/or the stats on people buying BlueRay movies who do not have a PS3. In terms of the format war, BlueRay has still not won but probably will as the combo players hit production given the momentum that this is putting behind it. I personally still feel that BOTH formats are losers and am not interested in either. When and IF I am ever able to afford a HDTV, I will not be able to afford a $500-$1000 DVD player to go along with it. Besides, I will be so excited to have a larger and wide-format screen that the wow will be there for a long time after. Perhaps by the time the upgrade wow has worn off, the combo players will be affordable, but I highly doubt that will happen for about another 3-5 years (the afford ability that is). Just like always, my .02.

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like DVD, most people's first DVD player was a PS2.

Sorry, but that's clearly false.

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[c00rdb]

It might be false, but how is it obviously false? My first DVD player was a PS2 and the same is true of many people I know.

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[sirwired]

Just like DVD, most people's first DVD player was a PS2.

Where on earth did you come up with THAT? The PS2 was a good-selling console, but it didn't sell THAT well. According to the SanJose Mercury News, lifetime sales for the PS2 in the U.S., as of the end of 2006, was 37.1 million. According to Nielsen, DVD currently has 80% market penetration, and there are approx. 113M U.S. households. (according to the Census), meaning that 90.4M U.S. households have a DVD player. An unknown number of those may have purchased a PS2 AFTER they bought a DVD player. (That was the case in my house.)

Maybe for the households that bought a PS2, it is possible (but not certain) that "most" of them had it as their first player, but that does not translate to the U.S. market overall.

SirWired

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[DesertBlade]

Take the group you have for reference, are they gamers?

Out of all the people I now 100% own computers so that means everyone in the world owns a computer, right?

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[Steve525]

Just like DVD, most people's first DVD player was a PS2.

There were certainly many people for which this was true, but I wouldn't go as far as to say it was true for most people. Perhaps a more accurate statement would be that many of the people who bought the first PS2s used it also as their first DVD player, particularly in Japan where it came out earlier (and had fewer games). By the time you could easily get a PS2 (ie. after the 2000 Christmas season in the states) DVD players were already pretty commonplace. I only know of one of my friends who used his PS2 as his primary DVD player (and he still does, in fact).

With DVD players and the PS2, DVDs were already fairly well established. Certainly not everyone had one yet, but the writing was on the wall. The timing with the PS3 is a little different. Who knows what is going to happen with Blu-ray, HD-DVD, etc.? In the PS2 case, Sony used the DVD playing capability to entice people to buy the PS2. In the PS3, things are switched. Sony is primarily using the PS3 as a means to entice people to choose the Blu-ray format.

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[c00rdb]

Nice try, but that's not what I said at all. As a matter of fact you are the one guilty of this logic. All I said is that it COULD be true. I guess if 100% of people I know have a brain, it is not POSSIBLE that everyone in the world has a brain because I am using flawed logic. All I said is that it was possible. Peace.

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Un-Possible! If 90 million households have DVD players and 30 million PS2's have been sold then at least 60 million households had a DVD player before a PS2.

60 million > 30 million.

It's Un-Possible!

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

"Just like DVD, most people's first DVD player was a PS2. "

"All I said is that it COULD be true."

You presented it as a fact. I'm not sure what you mean by "Just like DVD", at the beginning of the statement but nowhere in your post did you come close to saying that your statement on the PS2 as first DVD player for most people was a guess or based on no factual evidence or research.

Look, rather than arguing over semantics, let's talk about the statement. Why do you believe that the PS2 was the first DVD player for most? Do you have any data to back that statement up?

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[arodland]

You're also not accounting for quite a few serious gamers who are on their third PS2 because the drives on the first two died :)

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[c00rdb]

If you looked at the names for your two quotes, you'd realize that only the second statement was written by me. Perhaps a better statement would have been: most PS2 owners I know also used it as their first DVD player.

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[Ucklak]

My first DVD player was a DVD player for my computer that had a decoder card to go with it. It cost me $79. The card was a HollywoodPlus or something like that.
About a year later, my local grocery store had a pallet of DVD players with 5 free movies. The DVD player was $200 which was the cheapest then. That was my first stand alone player and I still have it.

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

AH! You are correct. I apologize. I do not have a good excuse for my mistake. I am a horse's ass.

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[codyk]

$500 piece of hardware.

And unlike the ps2, the ps3 is a better player than the other standalone units available at the time.

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[ivan256]

This is a common misconception.

I bought a PS2 on release day. I got my DVD player for less than $100 months before the PS2 was even available. The DVD capability drove PS2 sales, not the other way around. When we look back on this year in the future, we'll see that the same ends up being true for the PS3 and BluRay (assuming BluRay doesn't flop).

BluRay, HD-DVD players, and combo players will be under $200 for Christmas 2007.

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[Anonymous Coward]

in the U.S. Ah yes. According to Sony you are missing another 25 million in Japan and 44 million in Europe. I know it may come to a shock to you, but the Japanese do not have the same buying habits as the Americans. Did you even stop to think that maybe people outside the USA read slashdot, buy PS2s, or buy DVDs? In Japan Laserdisc was relatively popular and the DVD format was not flying off the shelves. Most people in Japan did not have a DVD player until they purchased a PS2.

As for Europe the PS2 has really dominated some of the markets over there. I would not be surprised if in some of the more technologically neglected countries like Spain the PS2 wasn't one of the first widely availabe DVD players.

As for numbers and being informative please feel free to look it up yourself. I don't need mod points and you might learn something. (I realize you took the time to dig up some information on your own and all, but it burns me to see such brazen America-centrism).

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[evilgiu]

Geez... Just adding some sad non-US consumer profile data.

I live in Brazil and only now, at the eve of the PS3, have I been able/willing to afford the bucks needed for a PS2 because prices have gone down a bit (current quotes from classic online merchants run at PS2=R$699, approx. US$350, and PS3=R$3.799, so approx. US$1.900, both US imports) Well, you get the idea... Stand-alone DVD players still have always been a much cheaper option here due to local manufacturing.

[sigh]

Don't even get me started on how much it costs to have a Mac around here...

[longer sigh]

PS2 => http://www.americanas.com.br/prod/518731/Catalogo? i=1&par=emailacom&opn=UEXPXW
PS3 => http://www.americanas.com.br/prod/579652/Catalogo? i=1&par=emailacom&opn=UEXPXW

Re:Pretty much history repeating itself...

[MemoryDragon]

Ahem I live in Europe, and I can assure you, the DVD capabilities of the PS2 were a non issue dvd was more important on the PC than on the PS2 over here, most people who were going to get DVDs were getting back then region free drives, due to the region code issues especially in the early years (shoddy european releases often no releases) The PS2 was none of them, most people buying a PS2 bought it for gaming, and because it could also run the PS1 games, most people who have a PS2 over here do not even know that it also plays dvds. I know a lot of people who bought region free standalone players, who bought cheap chinese dvd players which also could play divx and xvid and were region free, but I have yet to meet one who used his PS2 for serious DVD playing!

1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[HappySqurriel]

Obviously Blu-Ray has started to sell well after 1,000,000+ Blu-Ray enabled PS3 units ... The question I have is if Blu-Ray will continue to sell well over the next few months ...

I really don't know, but I suspect that a lot of people who bought a PS3 to play games might have bought 1 or 2 Blu-Ray movies simply because they wanted to try the drive out; being that there are few places that currently rent Blu-Ray/HD-DVD movies buying them is the only option for a lot of people. In contrast, I suspect that anyone who has bought any HD-DVD player is likely a movie collector and will buy 1-2 movies every week (or two) for the next couple of years. The question is how big of an impact 1 PS3 will make towards sales as compared to one stand alone HD-DVD player.

Re:1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[Rakshasa Taisab]

Yeah, cause those 1M+ suckers got their PS3 cause of the games. Har, Har, Har.

Re:1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[drinkypoo]

Obviously Blu-Ray has started to sell well after 1,000,000+ Blu-Ray enabled PS3 units ... The question I have is if Blu-Ray will continue to sell well over the next few months ...

The first 400,000 PS3 units came with a coupon for a free movie (ricky bobby.) The FA even alludes to this fact:

"This high percentage is likely helped by the bundled Talladega Nights Blu-ray disc with the first 500,000 units of PlayStation 3. But even apart from that, 80 percent of those surveyed plan to purchase further Blu-ray movies, while 72 percent of respondents stated that they plan to rent a Blu-ray movie in the near future."

(That was <p><em> ... why can't slashdot let us have <q> like any sane site? HTML has these tags for a reason.)

The question is, where were these people surveyed? Were they checking on them in a video rental store, or in wally world, or in a video-game store like funcoland or gamestop? Or was it a web survey? Inquiring minds need to know to determine if these statistics have any relation to reality.

Re:1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[miyako]

If this data is comming from a survey I took a while ago which had similar questions, it was a web survey that gets emailed to you when you create a playstation network account with the PS3.

Re:1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[shimage]

If you're going to separate it into its own block, why not use

instead?

Like so.

The way I understand it, <q> tags typically just insert quotation marks anyway.

Re:1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[psychrono]

Sarcasm aside, I think you're right. Everyone I know that has a PS3 (not many, including word of mouth) don't even use it anymore... it just sits in their house collecting dust. This is probably due to the fact that there has been no games that just make people say "whoa" for the PS3, but for the Wii however, I have been hearing constant things about new and upcoming games; such as the new Mario Party and the new DDR implementation that just began development recently. The logical thing for people to do is try and make use of their $600+ investment in the PS3 already, so they are seeing if the Blu-Ray drive is worth the effort... who knows, it just might make it in the long run, but I personally don't see the PS3 saving itself with just Blu-Ray movies unless some good games start arriving. We all know how the movies for PSP turned out.

Re:1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[drinkypoo]

The way I understand it, tags typically just insert quotation marks anyway.

A q tag is an element, like a paragraph, that is intended for quotations. It separates presentation from content. Users can cause their browser to render it in other ways.

Blockquote works only on block elements like p. It's intended for quoting blocks. But what slashdot has done with it is force it to remove all text formatting, so if I have an italic block inside of a blockquote, it appears without italics. So when I quote your text, I cannot preserve formatting. Thus if the source quote contains say some bold text, and I would like to include that, I can not use a blockquote.

Blockquote is the appropriate mechanism for quoting text in a reply, but it is utterly unsuitable for quoting text from an article. Slashdot's forced formatting of the blockquote has removed our freedom to create comments that make sense.

Anyway, the proper way in HTML to make a citation is blockquote filled with Ps (or similar) for multi-paragraph quotes, and to use a Q for an inline quote. But slashdot has never been into doing things the right way.

Re:1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[Mercano]

Netflix has BluRay and HDDVD discs.

Re:1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[crabbz]

The first 400,000 PS3 units came with a coupon for a free movie (ricky bobby.) The FA even alludes to this fact:

Actually they came with the ricky bobby disc in the box. There was no coupon for a free movie.

Re:1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[Aladrin]

The other poster is correct, the HTML spec says the q tag will 'render with delimiting quotation marks'. You might as well just type them.

Or... You could use Slashdot's quote tag. It cleverly tells you about it below the submit button on every reply page.

Re:1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[poot_rootbeer]

why can't slashdot let us have like any sane site? HTML has these tags for a reason.

And that reason is that the HTML spec developers thought that document authors would want to give more than half a second's consideration to the semantic structure of a document as it was being authored. Sadly, the WYSIWYG paradigm had already taken root, and authors found it easier to use the same vanilla quote marks they'd been typing in word processors for fifteen years than to learn about and use inline "q" tags.

Re:1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[KDR_11k]

They probably got it for the games they expected the system to accumulate. Many people seem to think that games that were exclusive to the PS2 will automatically have their sequels exclusive to the PS3.

Re:1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[drinkypoo]

Thanks! I couldn't find any information either way (not that I looked very long) and read something that implied it was a coupon. I sit corrected.

Re:1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[Babbster]

And if enough people get suckered into buy the PS3 over the 360 on that basis, then it could be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Hopefully, that doesn't happen and many of the titles currently announced as PS3 exclusives start migrating to the multi-platform method.

Re:1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[Trogre]

After seeing Blu-Ray vs DVD side-by-side on good quality TVs there is no doubt that I would be buying Blu-Ray titles over DVD without flinching if I didn't know or care about DRM.

Re:1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[king-manic]

The first 400,000 PS3 units came with a coupon for a free movie (ricky bobby.) The FA even alludes to this fact:

The HD DVD for the Xbox had a similiar pack in for a movie.

Re:1,000,000 + PS3 systems

[Quino]

for every apocryphal anectode ... :)

I know of two friends who bought the PS3 because it was a cheap Blue-Ray player and now are hooked (HOOKED) on Resistance:Fall of Man. One of these friends hadn't played video games since he and I were kids playing Super Mario Bros on the NES.

He used to tease me for being a grown up who played video games, but now he races home to play his PS3 online during his lunch hour.

I tried the game, and thought it was pretty good, for a console FPS (the same reaction I had to Halo -- "meh"), but I did spend a lot of hours many years ago playing Counter Strike and Half-Life (and others on the PC) so neither game seemed that great to *me* in comparison. That doesn't mean that others don't think these games are fundamentally new and ground-breaking fun.

Loss Leader

[Dorceon]

Apparently being a loss leader for the PS3 software format isn't working out. I wonder if people who are into Blu-Ray buy enough movies to make a PS3 a good loss leader for that. Maybe Sony needs to make a $450 Blu-Ray player that they lose money on, but not as much as they lose on the PS3. (Or one that breaks even for them.)

PS3 sales still artifically low

[SuperKendall]

Yes there are units in stores now.

However, PS3 sales are still somewhat lower than they could be, as evidenced by the lack of shipping units on Amazon. Any time Amazon gets a number of them to sell, sales surge - in-between that, third-party sellers list units for about $100 more.

That said even if there were wide availability of the console the Wii would probably outsell it just because it's a lot cheaper. An interesting place to keep track is here (look at core system sales lower in the page), though as noted the figures are a little unrealistic because they are based on Amazon sales.

Re:PS3 sales still artifically low

[Lehk228]

bullshit, the PS3 is sitting on store shelves, anyone who wants one can get one at MSRP

Re:PS3 sales still artifically low

[WillAffleckUW]

bullshit, the PS3 is sitting on store shelves, anyone who wants one can get one at MSRP

Actually, even though the Wii is hard to find, I saw two Wii consoles on sale at a small GameStop store just one block from Northgate Mall in Seattle, as well as the usual stack of PS3 consoles. So you can buy them, at least as of Sunday afternoon. Both consoles.

Re:PS3 sales still artifically low

[CastrTroy]

They currently have 11 units online at futureshop. I've been watching it for the past couple weeks, and sometimes they are sold out, but it's not hard to get one if you check a couple times a day.

Re:PS3 sales still artifically low

[0xdeadbeef]

Wow, there are enough people in North America whose interest in the PS3 is just high enough that they're willing to wait to buy it at a discount without sales tax. That's a powerful testament to the popularity of the platform you got there, mister.

Re:PS3 sales still artifically low

[FleaPlus]

However, PS3 sales are still somewhat lower than they could be, as evidenced by the lack of shipping units on Amazon. Any time Amazon gets a number of them to sell, sales surge - in-between that, third-party sellers list units for about $100 more.

It might be in short supply on amazon, but there's still other online stores who carry it at retail price:

http://ps3finder.com/

At the moment, you can by the retail box at Gamestop.com and circuitcity.com, and bundles at several other stores.

Re:PS3 sales still artifically low

[ArtDent]

Interestingly, in the 50 minutes since you pointed this out, they've sold 2 units.

When I bought my Wii from Future Shop (using Wii Finder Canada & Check4Change, as described here, they sold out of 100 units in just under 2 minutes.

I think that's a pretty meaningful comparison of demand, right there.

Re:PS3 sales still artifically low

[scot4875]

However, PS3 sales are still somewhat lower than they could be

And this is different than the Wii's short supply ... how, exactly?

--Jeremy

Re:PS3 sales still artifically low

[ThumpSlice]

That said even if there were wide availability of the console the Wii would probably outsell it just because it's a better value.

There, fixed that for ya.

Re:PS3 sales still artifically low

[jchenx]

Actually, even though the Wii is hard to find, I saw two Wii consoles on sale at a small GameStop store just one block from Northgate Mall in Seattle, as well as the usual stack of PS3 consoles. So you can buy them, at least as of Sunday afternoon. Both consoles.

To me, anecdotal stories like that are rather pointless. All it means is that you were able to find it that one time. One event doesn't mean anything. After all, you could just have been lucky. I can tell you that I haven't been (and I also live in this area).

It's the same thing regarding stories of PS3s sitting on shelves. The first few reports don't matter. However, after some time, and with report after report coming in, then you can start to think there's some truth in there.

But for the time being, I don't really hear that with the Wii. At least not yet. Maybe a couple more weeks?

Re:PS3 sales still artifically low

[WillAffleckUW]

To me, anecdotal stories like that are rather pointless. All it means is that you were able to find it that one time. One event doesn't mean anything. After all, you could just have been lucky. I can tell you that I haven't been (and I also live in this area).

No, the thing is, this is the first time I've seen any Wii consoles that weren't already about to be sold. I see stacks of PS3 consoles all the time at various locations here, but every time I've seen a Wii, it's in the process of being bought out by someone within a few minutes of appearing.

That was why it was unusual. Just the concept that they actually had more than one.

Re:PS3 sales still artifically low

[jchenx]

No, the thing is, this is the first time I've seen any Wii consoles that weren't already about to be sold. I see stacks of PS3 consoles all the time at various locations here, but every time I've seen a Wii, it's in the process of being bought out by someone within a few minutes of appearing.

That was why it was unusual. Just the concept that they actually had more than one.

I think you missed my point. I agree it's unusual. And you don't have to convince me that Wii consoles are selling a lot better than PS3 consoles.

It seemed to me that you were trying to make the point that Wii consoles are becoming more available, just through your one experience. I'm just saying that I don't see that as being the case yet. Apologies if that wasn't the point you were trying to make.

Anyway, one day I will be able to swing by Costco, and see stacks of Wii consoles (perhaps with a nice Zelda bundle) sitting on the warehouse floor. At that time, I'll take the plunge and buy one. Since it took till March for the 360 to be readily available at retail last year, I'll make the same prediction and say it'll take March as well for this to happen for the Wii.

Re:PS3 sales still artifically low

[WillAffleckUW]

It seemed to me that you were trying to make the point that Wii consoles are becoming more available, just through your one experience. I'm just saying that I don't see that as being the case yet. Apologies if that wasn't the point you were trying to make.

Wishful thinking on my part, I guess. But they did have Wii controllers in reasonable supply too.

They said they would probably have sufficient stock by March for the Wii when I asked them at the Costco down south of the stadiums. But that was a month ago.

Re:PS3 sales still artifically low

[MeanderingMind]

I disagree.

I am currently, and personally, staking out 20 different retail chains which sell both systems. I can assure you that at all 20 locations in various states across the country there were 173 million PS3s, 2 Yillion Wiis, and absolutely no Bobs frog blasting ventcores.

By this I conclude that Durandal is winning the war. Sony and Nintendo will be buried with the epitaph "Fatum Iustum Stultorum".

Bluray?

[MoFoQ]

I'm skeptical about those Blu-ray stats...just like the numbers that the MPAA cited for Canadian piracy (see /. post for Michael Geist from a few days ago).

Plus PS3 has that blinking issue...maybe good for "3D" movies (ref to old vid cards that came with "special" LCD glasses).

Re:Bluray?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah ... the PS3 has a "blinking issue" about the same as the Wii has a "stap issue". ... be a shame if your controller went through that nice TV set of yours.

Re:Bluray?

[Thraxen]

That "blinking issue" only affected small number of TVs. I own a PS3 and have never seen it. I also haven't bought any BR movies, but I have rented several via NetFlix.

Re:Bluray?

[MoFoQ]

I don't own a PS3 but I do have a TV that is affected by it (someone brought a PS3 to the lanparty....it blinked plus couldn't play DDR so it went back into it's box...and we Wii'ed for hours.)

Re:yeah?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because you have a better pimp.

Apples and Oranges

[baptiste]

While they are both game consoles, there is a big price differential between a Wii and a PS3. It makes sense that the Wii would sell more units. While it has a nifty controller, power wise it's on par with the PS2 which sold like gangbusters this past holiday season. Compare it to those numbers for a telling look.

Re:Apples and Oranges

[cowscows]

If the Wii and the PS3 are not a valid comparison, I don't see how the PS2 and Wii is any better. One is many years into its lifespan and has hundreds of games available. The other is just a couple months old and is selling faster than they can be manufactured. One has a tried and true tradition control scheme, the other has a new and very different control mechanism that nobody's familiar with. While the Wii certainly does not try to be the number crunching powerhouse that the PS3 is aiming for, saying that it's equal to the PS2 in terms of hardware is going a little too far. My Gamecube can certainly match the PS2, and even if the Wii is just 1.5 gamecubes in terms of numbers, that still puts it comfortably ahead of the PS2.

Price certainly helps the Wii, but people won't pay $250 for something that they view as a piece of crap. And at the same time, there are plenty of people who will pay significantly more for something that they perceive as better than the alternatives (witness the ipod).

So, why isn't the comparison of the Wii to the PS3 to the Xbox 360 worthwhile to you? The next 5 or so years of living room gaming is all about those three consoles. What does comparing any of the new systems to the PS2 tell you that's useful?

Re:Apples and Oranges

[antifood]

Power wise it is much better than a PS2. However, you will not notice this fact going off the PS2 ports Ubisoft is shoveling onto the Wii.

Re:Apples and Oranges

[Knuckles]

power wise it's on par with the PS2

Dude, by now everybody knows that the PS2 had the worst hardware of last gen. Even Gamecube was better and Wii is twice as powerful as that.

Re:Apples and Oranges

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct,
Last Gen was Xbox > Gamecube > PS2, in terms of graphical horsepower.
With Wii being about 2x the performance as GC, they will be able to push out some excellent looking games in a year or so. The Wii will be able to add some more eye candy because of the fact it only runs at 480p max.

Re:Apples and Oranges

[scot4875]

In a year or so? I dunno, but Twilight Princess already looks pretty damn good to me right now. 480p 16:

And while not mind-blowing, things like Rayman, Super Monkey Ball, and Excite Truck all look surprisingly good for first-gen titles -- especially considering their sort of mini game oriented design. They look spectacularly good if you compare them to the first-gen titles of the PS2/'Cube/Xbox era.

--Jeremy

Re:Apples and Oranges

[DrEldarion]

Price certainly helps the Wii, but people won't pay $250 for something that they view as a piece of crap. And at the same time, there are plenty of people who will pay significantly more for something that they perceive as better than the alternatives (witness the ipod).

So, why isn't the comparison of the Wii to the PS3 to the Xbox 360 worthwhile to you?
To use the old standby, the car analogy, which sells better - the Honda Accord or the Mercedes S-class? The Accord, by far. Does that means it's a better machine? No, people are just more likely to buy a less-frills but cheaper alternative. Does the fact that Mercedes sells fewer cars make them a failure?

Analogies aside, it's way, way, waaaaaaaaaaay too early to tell ANYTHING about the current console race. Wait until some more high-profile exclusives have been launched for ALL systems, and we'll see a lot more useful figures.

Opinion

[4g1vn]

I believe that the Wii, PS3, and 360 all have their respctive places in the video game industry. Wii: Great for a different experience, easy for eveyone to pick up and play, awesome for it's Virtual Console (my favorite part). PS3: Blu-ray player is a bargin, HDMI out, cheap downloadable games. 360: Decent libary, XBOX live is a great social sceen, quality controllers. BTW, I have the PS3 and Wii and love them both.

Re:Opinion

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should spend a little less time playing video games, and, oh, I don't know, try taking an English class.

Re:Opinion

[4g1vn]

Sorry about that post. I was working and trying to post at the same time. It was my intention to run spell check but I was too hasty. FWIW, I recognize that my English is not the best.

More Gas in the Fire

[FFFFHALTFFFF]

Well, Wii seems ready to get the top. With the brand new Mod Chip I think the sales will increase a lot.

Re:More Gas in the Fire

[PyroMosh]

You think it will make any signifigant difference? What is "a lot"? They already sell them as fast as they make them, what difference do you see a mod chip making?

Re:More Gas in the Fire

[b00tleg]

They are going to sell atleast one more because thats the reason I am buying it... I mean... my friend, my friend will buy a wii with a mod chip...

Re:More Gas in the Fire

[FFFFHALTFFFF]

Well,I dont know where you live but here... The addicts start to buy videogames when the modchips are released, because the games are too much expansive. Here the Wii will gain the top for sure.

"the word, from Sony itself"

[Megajim]

Does anyone really think that Sony would claim anything else? The article itself says that "this high percentage is likely helped by the bundled Talladega Nights Blu-ray disc with the first 500,000 units of PlayStation 3." I understand that the study itself is not from Sony, but from Nielsen VideoScan. Still, it's way too early to declare anything close to a winner, considering how many people actually own the proper displays (particularly in the US, but I bet the Super Bowl made a big impact on HDTV sales). Show me stats in another six months, as I'll bet that a lot of the PS3 owners who bought Blu-ray movies at a 2:1 rate over HD-DVD might have done just that - they bought two movies, maybe along with two PS3 games, just to try it out (as HappySqurriel says above). If all 360s came with a HD-DVD drive (and they most likely will sometime this year), maybe those people would have done the same thing, and we would (and probably will) see a different ratio. Meanwhile, stand-alone HD-DVD players are a better deal than stand-alone Blu-ray players, and it won't be long before Toshiba lowers the price on those units yet again, so perhaps the overall PS3 impact on the format war won't be a deathblow to HD-DVD (not that I own either format at this point).

Re:"the word, from Sony itself"

[WillAffleckUW]

The article itself says that "this high percentage is likely helped by the bundled Talladega Nights Blu-ray disc with the first 500,000 units of PlayStation 3."

Exactly. Think about this - if every PS3 shipped included a Blu-Ray DVD movie, then their numbers would automatically be higher than the HD-DVD, since neither the 360 nor the Wii ship with HD-DVD, nor do they ship with any movies at all.

But, as a corallory, don't believe the numbers about Wii Sports being such a big seller in the US, since it was bundled with the Wii here, even though it's a separate game in Japan. Even if it is a very fun game.

Analysis at the Wall Street Journal (expensive subscription required) shows that HD-DVD units are selling faster worldwide than Blu-Ray units, even with the bundled Blu-Ray player in the PS3. So don't believe the numbers until you think them thru.

Re:"the word, from Sony itself"

[dolson]

Think about this - if every PS3 shipped included a Blu-Ray DVD movie, then their numbers would automatically be higher than the HD-DVD, since neither the 360 nor the Wii ship with HD-DVD, nor do they ship with any movies at all.

You're right. And that's the thing: My gaming console of choice (Wii) shipped with a GAME in the box. Imagine that! A gaming system shipping with a game in the box...

Sony removed all confusion about the purpose of the Playstation 3 when they chose to pack a movie in the box.

I for one (Wii)

[WillAffleckUW]

I for one welcome our Wii-enabled Wiimote-wielding Nunchuk-shaking Nintendo overlords and can't wait to see Spore on the Wii as well as the Nintendo DS.

Now, when do I get my Wiimote-enabled light saber game from the Star Wars franchise, so that I can make a YouTube video of my 1337 skilz?

Opinion (spellcheck version) ;)

[4g1vn]

I believe that the Wii, PS3, and 360 all have their respective places in the video game industry. Wii: Great for a different experience, easy for everyone to pick up and play, awesome for it's Virtual Console (my favorite part). PS3: Blu-ray player is a bargain, HDMI out, cheap downloadable games. 360: Decent library, XBOX live is a great social scene, quality controllers. BTW, I have the PS3 and Wii and love them both.

It really is true...

[thousandinone]

My local Best Buy store has PS3s sitting on its shelf, and has had them in stock for some time now. On the other hand, there are people camping outside of the store every day now hoping that they will get Wiis in stock on that day... Some of these mornings we've had wind chill factors of -5 F or lower. I may be giving people in my area the benefit of the doubt in this, but I don't think this has to do with the console being cheaper; this behavior is not a symptom of being 'cheap' as far as I know.

Re:It really is true...

[ivan256]

Give it up. Just because you saw some PS3s on the shelf one time doesn't mean anything.

The fact of the matter is that you're still more likely *not* to see a PS3 on the shelf than you are to see one available. You can find as many pictures of people playing in a pile of empty boxes as you'd like and it won't change it. When you can buy one online at any hour of the day without buying a bundle, then they'll be readily available.

Also, the stores in your area suck ass if they make people wait out in the cold in the morning. Shop somewhere that puts the high-demand merchandise out when it comes in. I haven't noticed Wii's out of stock any more frequently than I've noticed PS3s out of stock (I see them both from time to time). Of course that doesn't mean the PS3 is selling just as well, since there are more Wiis per shipment, but lines in the early morning are a thing of the past unless the local BestBuy manager is an asshole.

Re:It really is true...

[0rbit4l]

PS3s are available now, online, from Circuit City

Also, you're too quick to dismiss the people-waiting-for-Wiis phenomenon. I talked to a Nintendo rep today at Gamestop. He claimed that places like Target and Wal-Mart are routinely receiving Wiis during the week and are holding them for weekend sales to coincide with their Sunday advertising circulars. He suggested that if you want a Wii, go wait outside one of these stores on a Sunday morning. The Target manager said the same thing. You can complain all you want about them being "assholes", but as the Nintendo rep put it, "We can't tell them how to run their stores". It's a fact of life - one which you seem a little out of touch with...

Re:It really is true...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I live a little north of Houston. I have never seen a Wii in Target, Circuit City, Best Buy, or any of the Wal-Marts in the Woodlands. I did see a bunch of them as they were being walked out the door of a Best Buy in Conroe a few weeks ago. I was 6 people away from getting one.

When I finally got one, I got number 2 of 4 that a Wal-Mart had. These were sold out as soon as they were brought out. When I went to Virginia last week, I did not see any in Target, Circuit City, or Best Buy in Richmond. And I have seen plenty of PS3s sitting around.

The PS3s do get sold on occasion, but it is telling that, if I wanted a PS3 right now, I could get one whenever I wanted. If I wanted to get another Wii, I'd have some waiting and some shopping around to do.

Re:It really is true...

[Mark Maughan]

I just saw 2 Wii sitting on the shelf at my BestBuy. This was this evening, so obviously nobody camped out there this morning. I think the supply is matching the demand where I live.

Here is the BestBuy, if you live in the MD/DC area.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=cat1209 1&type=page&allstores=no&mode=fromResult&storeId=2 65

Re:It really is true...

[thousandinone]

What exactly am I supposed to be giving up? I'm just stating my own personal observations on the matter, I have nothing to gain or lose out of it either way. Sorry if I offended a Sony fanboy?

Re:It really is true...

[ivan256]

People keep telling me that, but when I go look and put one in my cart it says all my local stores are out of stock, and that the expected arrival date if I have it shipped is 14-20 days in the future. (Except that right now it says "Out of stock online" so I can't even give you an example date right now).

If any circuit city in the country has a PS3 in stock, their website says it's in stock. In reality if you want to get one, you have to spend your day hitting F5, be lucky enough to find one in a store, or buy a bundle.

He suggested that if you want a Wii, go wait outside one of these stores on a Sunday morning. The Target manager said the same thing. You can complain all you want about them being "assholes", but as the Nintendo rep put it, "We can't tell them how to run their stores". It's a fact of life - one which you seem a little out of touch with...

We can trade insults all day... But it will get old. The fact of life is that not all stores do this. Only the ones that are run by jerks who like making their customers suffer. If we just accept it as a "fact of life" then it will become common practice. Or, we can take our business to a store that doesn't do that. There are plenty of them out there, and that includes Target stores. The Target near me gets a shipment of Wiis every Wednesday around 10:00 AM. They put them on the shelf as soon as they're done verifying the quantity, and they sell out by sometime the next morning. If they held them until Sunday, maybe they'd sell out in 10 minutes, but at the end of the day they'd have made it so they had inventory instead of cash for 3 days. Cash earns interest, and inventory doesn't.

Re:It really is true...

[LordRobin]

The fact of the matter is that you're still more likely *not* to see a PS3 on the shelf than you are to see one available.

That very much depends on where you are, doesn't it? My local Target has had the same two 60GB PS3s sitting on the shelf for weeks! Meanwhile, the same store still has to give out tickets to campers when it gets Wiis, three months after launch.

Yeah, this is an anecdote, but c'mon! How is this even possible, unless the PS3 really is having sales problems? (Unless between each visit, the store is selling the PS3s, getting two more, and painstakingly arranging them in the precise same position on the shelf.)

------RM

It is worth noting...

[the computer guy nex]

.. that PS3's come with vouchers for discounts on Blu-Ray movies. A surge in sales is no suprise.

What is left to be seen is if Blu-Ray can hold onto the market of gamers just "giving HD movies a try."

Re:It is worth noting...

[pdaoust007]

It's worth noting as well that Toshiba HD-DVD players come with a voucher for 3 free movies and the XBOX-360 HD-DVD add-on bundles the King-Kong movie...

What weird numbers.

[Nananine]

From the article: "According to Nielsen VideoScan, the consumer research firm for the VHS and DVD sell-through industry, in addition to an overall lead in sales to date, Blu-ray movies outsold those released for the HD-DVD format by more than a 2-to-1 margin during the first week of January. This equates to 47.14 HD DVD titles sold for every 100 Blu-ray titles.

The report also found that Blu-ray titles outsold HD-DVD releases by nearly a 3-to-1 margin during January's second week, with 38.36 HD-DVD titles sold for every 100 Blu-ray releases."

What the...

So Blu-Ray has surpassed HD-DVD in cumulative sales for the first time. So that means they're selling more, but we don't know by how much. Also, they're touting the fact that Blu-Ray outsold HD-DVD in the first two weeks of January? What kind of weird stats are those?

Re:What weird numbers.

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, if you look carefully at the article Sony is mis-quoting and the VideoScan's charts you will see that HD-DVD still has a cumulative disc sales advantage. They note a TWO WEEK trend and extrapolate it to the present. During those two weeks, there were no new HD-DVD releases and a handful of Blu-ray releases. It is also the slowest selling time of the year so a two-to-one or three-to-one ratio during that time is sort of like bragging about being the world's tallest dwarf. Sony also tries to use the terms "Blu-ray discs" and "HD-DVD discs" instead of movies so they can count PS3 games as part of their sales totals. Hmm. Distorted facts, wordsmithing, and outright lies. Did we expect anything less of Sony?

Novelty: will wear off

[suv4x4]

People are buying PS3-s. More PS3-s than HD-DVD players. Because it's a Playstation.

It makes sense for their investment (they can't choose, as with XBOX360), they'll buy at least one BR movie to try out "what it's about".

But once the novelty wears off, one thing remains absolute: BR movies have worse DRM and way worse prices than plain DVDs, and only a little benefit in value (namely, higher resolution).

I'm not trying to spin this as if Sony's success with Blu-Ray is fake, as there isn't any real reason for HD-DVD to take off either.

I'm just saying: not so fast.

My how times have changed.

[WiiVault]

One thing that really makes me chuckle is how PS3 supporters have changed their line in the last few months from "Sony will sell not matter what. Look at the PS2 they have the brand that people go to for gaming." Now that the sky has started to fall they have changed their tune "Oh well of course the PS3 will sell slower because its more expensive." This is what everybody has been saying the whole time! The brand is not enough to sell a machine that is way out of most peoples budget- atleast for a gaming system. And yes I know the battle has just begun but if they don't start to reevaluate their competition I see Sony as the Nintendo of the last gen.

Re:My how times have changed.

[ivan256]

As somebody who doesn't consider himself a "supporter" of any of the platforms, this seems dubious to me.

In order to be on the defensive for "slower sales" it would have to be in last place in that category. Currently, it isn't. The adoption slope for the launch of the PS3 looks more like the PS2 than it does the 360. (In other words, the number of sales per unit time for the launch windows is greater for the PS3 than it was for the 360.) Since there are no good games out for the system (no good reason to actually buy a PS3 right now), it appears that the brand alone is enough to sell the machine.

Re:My how times have changed.

[operato]

it's only because people mistook it for an expensive toaster.

Re:My how times have changed.

[WiiVault]

The launch titles were known awhile before launch and Sony/Fanboys still expected it to be huge. They said Blu-Ray would sell it, or the brand, or the best graphics (which hasn't yet happened). So you point is really not valid. We knew everything there was to know about the PS3 quite a long time ago and it just didn't pan out the way that these bozos thought it would for such painfully obvious reasons.

Re:My how times have changed.

[ivan256]

Did you even read my comment?

How can you say the PS3 isn't selling when it *is* selling? Sure, it's not keeping up with the Wii, which is probably going to turn out to be the fastest selling console of all time, but it's keeping up with what the PS2 did at launch, and it's outperforming what the 360 did at launch. All that for an overpriced machine that has no good games.

So either the name is selling it or the BluRay is selling it. "It's not selling" isn't a valid option.

Re:My how times have changed.

[WiiVault]

Well yeah I suppose you could argue that if one is sold then yes it is selling. Its not the brand that is selling it though; its the fanboys and you damn well know that. Every company has its mindless drones, I didn't realize I had to point that out to you. The public at large doesn't care about it one bit though, which is the point. The "no good games" is pretty subjective too though I personally agree some people don't, which might explain why a few of them have been dusted off and actually purchised.

Re:My how times have changed.

[ivan256]

Its not the brand that is selling it though; its the fanboys and you damn well know that.

What's the difference? Isn't "fanboy" just a derogatory term for brand loyalists?

Dead cat bounce

[Generic Guy]

Even a dead cat will bounce once on its way down.

The common perception about the VideoScan numbers is that a lot of PS3 owners used their "free Blu-ray movie" coupon, boosting 'sales' after Christmas. Especially since there doesn't seem to be anything else available worth doing on the PS3 device right now. This is in addition to a rather dry HD-DVD lineup in January. Let's remember, the first two weeks in January after Christmas doesn't necessarily set a trend.

The VideoScan numbers for the third week in January, not reported in the article, already show Blu-Ray slumping down again, compared to HD-DVD.

All this sounds vaguely similar to the narrowly-defined "Zune leads 30GB music player market in first two days of sales" reports we saw a few weeks ago. Much ado about nothing.

Re:Dead cat bounce

[Thraxen]

But the comparison to the Zune isn't exactly sound. Zune is the system, BR movies are the software. I'm sure the surge at the start of January is due largely to the coupons, but there's no reason to believe that many of these people won't pick up BR movies in the future. The fact that the coupons alone were able to propel BR past HD-DVD in total sales is rather telling of the fact that HD-DVD is hardly leaving BR in the dust... not even close. At one point I was pretty certain HD-DVD would win out, but I'm not so sure anymore. In the long run Sony's plan may actually work out.

Re:Dead cat bounce

[flitty]

Even a dead cat will bounce once on its way down.

This might be my favorite quote i've heard on /.

No duh?

[ProppaT]

* Most PS3 owners have used the system to watch Blueray movies.

I hope so, especially seeing that the US PS3 came with a free copy of Talladega Nights.

* 80% of PS3 owners plan on buying/watching Blueray dvd's in the future.

No duh? I hate to sound sarcastic here, but what's the sense in buying a $600 piece of hardware if you don't plan on using all the features. Everybody watches DVDs these days. I imagine if I had a BlueRay DVD player sitting there, I'd plan on buying/watching at bare minimum my FAVORITE movies on that format instead of regular DVD. I'd venture the people who said no were those who don't have an HDtv...which makes me wonder why the heck they're even being early adopters seeing that they can't even make use of the HD graphics. That's like insisting on having the best hifi audio rig possible when you wear hearing aids.

Most PS3 owners watch Blueray movies.

[trdrstv]

80% of PS3 owners plan on buying/watching Blueray dvd's in the future

That still seems low. If the player's already there, why wouldn't you want to pick up a at least few Blu-Ray disks? Even as a novelty.

the US PS3 came with a free copy of Talladega Nights.

Ah, that explains it.

Re: Most PS3 owners watch Blueray movies.

[Thraxen]

If you don't have an HDTV there really is no benefit to buying BR over DVD. Well, unless you have an audio system capable of 5.1 or 7.1 PCM audio, but those people likely do have HDTVs. Anyway, if anything, I'm a bit surprised that the number is that high... it's definitely not too low.

And, for the record, not every US PS3 came with Talladega Nights. Mine didn't. Unless I just got ripped off.

Re: Most PS3 owners watch Blueray movies.

[ProppaT]

Possibly it was just the initial wave of PS3's or only the 60gb models. The movie was included in the box with my friends launch day PS3.

Re: Most PS3 owners watch Blueray movies.

[Reapman]

The benefit is if you do buy an HDTV in the future, you'll have a movie that will make it (somewhat) worth buying. as apposed to buying it then.. why buy it on DVD when you can buy it (and watch it currently) on BluRay/HD-DVD, and be somewhat more future proof (or so goes the saying, if Blu Ray or HD-DVD dies then you can at least still watch them on your player, until it dies too)

Re: Most PS3 owners watch Blueray movies.

[trdrstv]

If you don't have an HDTV there really is no benefit to buying BR over DVD.

Then why would these people be early adopters of the PS3? I do agree with your statement however, and I'll go you one further.

"If you don't have an HDTV there really is no benefit (Graphically) to buying a PS3 (or a 360) over an Original X-Box."

Try it sometime. Take a game like Call of Duty 3 (which is on pretty much everything) and run it on a PS3 in 480i with the low-def composite cables it came with. Now run the Call of Duty 3 for the original X-box (you could get for $100) in 480i and see how that looks.

Re: Most PS3 owners watch Blueray movies.

[Thraxen]

I haven't tried that, but I would imagine the difference in polys alone would still be noticeable. DVD vs BR movies pretty much are just a difference in resolution when it comes to video display. Games are different. The difference in polys, textures, lighting, etc.. should all still be apparent to a degree even at lower resolutions. On the flip side is true as well... look at a game like Halo 2 that gets scaled up to 720p on the 360. Sure, it looks a bit nicer scaled up, but it doesn't look any where near as good as games like GoW or R6LV that were designed for the 360.

Re: Most PS3 owners watch Blueray movies.

[flitty]

No, go rent (or buy) Ninja Gaiden Black and hook your Xbox up with component cables. Game looks as good or better than any next gen game i've seen (I haven't seen gears in action yet :P)

Re: Most PS3 owners watch Blueray movies.

[trdrstv]

No, go rent (or buy) Ninja Gaiden Black and hook your Xbox up with component cables. Game looks as good or better than any next gen game i've seen (I haven't seen gears in action yet :P)

Or RE-Make (Resident Evil 1) or RE4 for Gamecube (With component cables of course). I agree with the 'next gen' statement. With the Exception of Gears of War, none of these 'Next Gen games' couldn't be accomplished (maybe not exact, but for the most part) on current gen (including Resistance). Personally I think it's temporary however and we're just in a state of transition. In about 2 years every game will have 'The next-gen sparkle' but for now, Gears of War Sits alone....

Re: Most PS3 owners watch Blueray movies.

[trdrstv]

I haven't tried that, but I would imagine the difference in polys alone would still be noticeable.

It just isn't. If you have the capability of using a PS3 or a 360 on a 480i system, try it.

The difference in polys, textures, lighting, etc.. should all still be apparent to a degree even at lower resolutions.

They get blurred and obscured. Progressive scan can clean up a lot of that, but we're talking 480i SD-TV and and the truth of the matter is the extra detail is lost.

Dear Wii Fanbois

[benzapp]

Can someone please name ONE game that the Wii has that is worth playing? I considered getting the latest Zelda game and a Wii, but it was the only game worth getting it seemed. So, I just got the gamecube version.

I just don't see why the Wii is any better than the gamecube.

Re:Dear Wii Fanbois

[trdrstv]

Can someone please name ONE game that the Wii has that is worth playing?

Just one? Rayman Raving Rabbits, WiiSports (it even comes with it), WarioWare, ExciteTruck (it's fun and better with an all Offspring custom soundtrack.) Madden is hella fun as well. The motion controls really add to it. Also if it tickles your fancy there are around 50 VC games available (including Zelda: a Link to the Past, Contra III, Gunstar Heroes, Mario Kart 64...).

I just don't see why the Wii is any better than the gamecube.

Um... Have you tried a Wii?

Re:Dear Wii Fanbois

[snuf23]

I would add Elebits to the list. I know it has received mixed reviews but I've really enjoyed it. I think so far it has the best feeling FPS controls and some great gravity gun style action.
The one downside is that frame rates drop pretty bad in the later levels when you start throwing cars around. That - and if kiddie graphics and story turn you off you might have a hard time enjoying it.

Re:Dear Wii Fanbois

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't own a Wii specifically because I'm waiting for a more robust lineup of games, but I can tell you without any reservations that Wii Sports is wicked good.

Re:Dear Wii Fanbois

[fo0bar]

Can someone please name ONE game that the Wii has that is worth playing?

There's that "Wii" game where you go out and try to buy a Wii. It was relatively easy for the first level (I beat the game in one overnight sitting, didn't even take a week or anything), but the game got WAY harder the longer you played. I've heard there are people out there that have STILL not beat the end boss.

The "PS3" game on the other hand is the opposite. For those who could afford triple the game price, the first few levels were EXTREMELY hard. Then it got incredibly easy, but by those levels people realized the gameplay was crap and stopped playing altogether.

Re:Dear Wii Fanbois

[poot_rootbeer]

Can someone please name ONE game that the Wii has that is worth playing?

Wii Sports.

Don't let the simplistic Fisher-Price-looking avatars turn you off, there's a truly addictive fun-ness to it.

Any more brain busters?

Re:Dear Wii Fanbois

[Anonymous Coward]

Wii Sports. I thought for sure it would be a throwaway when I got my Wii. My wife even scoffed at it and wanted me to buy a second game when I picked up the Wii. However, after we got it home and played we've discovered that Wii Sports provides some extremely addictive gameplay. To be honest, it gets played almost every night. My wife no longer scoffs.

I'll give a few extras as well, Rayman Raving Rabbids is a blast. Though it really shines when playing with multiple people. The VC is a blast as well, one of my favorite aspects of the console. Though I understand not bothering with it if you own the old systems still. I, however, don't, and so I have enjoyed Gunstar Heroes greatly. I also plan to pick up Mario Kart 64 and Super Mario World in the next week or two. So, yeah - I think there are plenty of Wii games out. Certainly enough to justify the $250 to get your hands on one (assuming your local stores have any stock).

Re:Dear Wii Fanbois

[WillAffleckUW]

Can someone please name ONE game that the Wii has that is worth playing?

OK, I'm not a fanboi, but I do have a Wii and I can tell you my reaction to the games.

Top of the line (5 stars): Zelda, Wii Sports (sorry, it's just fun), Trauma Center: 2nd Opinion, Rayman's Raving Rabbids (much more fun on the Wii).

Good (4 stars): Excite Truck, Elebits (yes, I know the voiceover sux, but that's all), any of your GC games you loved (ran Sims 2: Pets and the graphics were so much better on my Wii with 2GB card and no load times or glitches like on my xBox or PS2 or GC)

Um. sorry, those are all the games I've tried. After seeing Red Steel at demo and hearing friends, I skipped it.

Kind of surprised no turkeys so far - I'm sure there are some, but I don't play sports (except maybe FIFA 07 or NHL 07 or if they come out with Cricket 07 or Rugby 07) and mostly avoid FPS (thinking of Call of Duty which is on the Wii I think).

Hope this helps. And it's not just me, I've seen some major reviews bash the PS3 games. Think most of the kinks are worked out of the xBox360, but not real into most of the games on that (if I was sports or FPS, it's a good choice).

Re:Dear Wii Fanbois

[MeanderingMind]

Fisher-Price would melt if they could see the abominations my friends made. I swear Satan was taking notes, because the... things were downright demonic.

And they played golf! MY EYES! OH GOD MY EYES!

Re:Dear Wii Fanbois

[crabpeople]

Sounds like someone got a ps3 for xmas!

Re:Dear Wii Fanbois

[oniboy]

There's that "Wii" game where you go out and try to buy a Wii. It was relatively easy for the first level

I still havnt managed to pass the fist level. I live in Japan & I tried hard durning the opening round to get my hands on a Wii but the opening day was also the closing day for getting past the first level.

Famitsu parent company Enterbrain has figures showing that Nintendo sold 405,000 Wii units last month, while Sony sold 148,000 units of the PS3.

I take it the last month means Jan. ?! I wounder who these lucky people were who managed to get a Wii in Japan last month since all the shops ive been to here have had signs up saying we have no details as to when the Wii will be back on store shelves. Its a pity the PS3 isnt more appealing as they are on every stores shelves just sitting there with their prices dropping. ( I think the price has droped, I havnt paid it that much attention. )

No blinking on 360 with HDMI?

[fistfullast33l]

Plus PS3 has that blinking issue...maybe good for "3D" movies (ref to old vid cards that came with "special" LCD glasses).

The blinking issue that only people with 1080p televisions using HDMI have? Right, well apparently the problem is really HDCP handshaking and not the PS3 or the TV necessarily, and how does your 360 look with HDMI? Oh right, it doesn't have that yet. I bet you can buy a $200 add-on for it though, or just a whole new console in 6 months. But believe the hype, the $400 360 has so much more over the $600 PS3/Bluray player!

Re:No blinking on 360 with HDMI?

[Thraxen]

Actually, my 360 running at 1080p via component has picture quality that is just as good as my PS3 running at 1080p via HDMI. Imagine that.

Re:No blinking on 360 with HDMI?

[MoFoQ]

without the blinking too! :D

Re:No blinking on 360 with HDMI?

[Lost Engineer]

HDMI was so long coming. A/V integration. All digital, even though it doesn't look perceptibly better than component. It's a horrible crying shame that they had to package it with broken DRM that makes me unplug my TV every week and ruins ppls ps3 playing.

Hype Train

[Intangible Fact]

Ive posted some bias comments about the Nintendo Wii on Slashdot and Joystiq. Heres my chance to redeem myself. When a new technology comes out there is one thing that will help it stay and its called "Mass Appeal". The new technology has to find a way to reach the masses and be the next long lasting technological trend (such as vhs,dvd,mp3,joysticks). The Wii comes off to the general public as a family party game or something to help them exercise. Hardcore gamers are very different from the casual gamer. Casual gamers tend to not have the type of loyalty as the hardcore. When something new comes out people tend to jump on the hype train. Once that cool feeling wears off the casual gamer looks for something new to fulfill that high. The Wii will have a hard time staying on top once the casual gamer gets tired of the same old party games. It all depends on how long that hype lasts.

Re:Hype Train

[MeanderingMind]

There is insight here.

The question for the Wii is, "Is it hype or is it substance?"

It's the same question that was posed to the DS, and the answer was the latter. That is, however, no guarantee the same is true for the Wii.

Re:Hype Train

[jschul]

It's hard to say, but considering that most of the people still lining up the night before to get a Wii when shipments come in have already played the system and still want one, it's got to be more than hype.

Re:Hype Train

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, as someone who got a Wii and a 360 this Christmas, I can tell you this much - the Wii makes the 360 seem terribly clunky. When I put a top-shelf 360 game like Viva Pinata (yes, I am a girl) up against a 2D port of a DS game for the Wii (Trauma Center), the Wii still puts the 360 to shame. Analog motion control is just better.

Re:Hype Train

[P3NIS_CLEAVER]

What would a hardcore gamer want with a PS3?

Zelda

[paladinwannabe2]

Zelda is excellent, Wii Sports and Raving Rabbids are great, but work better if you have friends to play them with. It really is the party games that make the Wii fun- Zelda works well on the GameCube, so there's no need to upgrade if you're playing by yourself.

Trend, not a bounce

[SuperKendall]

Take a look at the longer term trends - Blu-Ray is not catching up through any bounce, but from real and steady growth in movies and in players.

These are numbers that show Blu-Ray consistently on top, for almost a month now - and continuing to grow. Don't forget the coupon still required you to spend money, it was not a "free" movie - and anyone even using that coupon is likley to buy more titles as well since they have it rigged up to play movies.

The only people who really know how well either format are doing though I think is Netflix - that's the first place HD-DVD or Blu-Ray owners would turn, buying movies slowly as they found ones they like.

There are also people paying more

[SuperKendall]

PS3's also continue to sell on Amazon at $100 above list as well (since that's they only way you can buy them yet PS3's are still in the sales ranks). A lot of people prefer to go through online retailers they like for things.

Observed DRM the same

[SuperKendall]

But once the novelty wears off, one thing remains absolute: BR movies have worse DRM and way worse prices than plain DVDs, and only a little benefit in value (namely, higher resolution).

Look at this from the standpoint of 90% of the market.

WHat do they do with a DVD? They take the disc, and put it in a player.

What do they do with HD-DVD/Blu-Ray? They take the disc, they put it in a player.

You forget that normal CD's have pretty onerous DRM as well. But it's accepted because most people never see the limitations being imposed on them. The same is true of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD - the restrictions are invisible to normal users of the product.

As for the jump in quality, the jump is actually quite huge and I've had a number of non-videophile friends remark how awesome HD movies are once they get HD-TV sets. To them there is a world of difference, and this alone has led a number of people around the office into buying a PS3, whcich they are very happy with (though some of them wish for more games, that problem should be resolved in six months or so).

Re:Observed DRM the same

[GigsVT]

You forget that normal CD's have pretty onerous DRM as well

You call raw PCM data "onerous DRM"

lull

[Anonymous Coward]

How can things be in a lull, at least for the Wii, when you still can't go into a store and pick one up?

Re:lull

[MeanderingMind]

Generally there's a lot of ramping up that's done prior to a launch. This means that in most cases there's a greater supply at and around the launch period than afterwards, as you've had some number of months to produce systems and related items in advance.

Additionally, most everything sells less following the holidays, as most people don't have money to buy things. Many of the purchases of the Wii are likely to be people still attempting to get little Johnny his Christmas present.

However, the true lull is in games for people who blow through them like tissue paper. They've probably got maximum scores in all five Wii Sports, could recite for you all of Midna's lines from Twilight Princess, could plot every tree on every course in Excite Bike, power their house using Elebits, and have saved and killed as many patients in Trauma Center as your nearest hospital has in its entire life.

Quite simply, until there are more games than any one human can play these people will not be satisfied.

Re:lull

[Mr2001]

I picked mine up just a couple weeks ago from CompUSA.

Re:lull

[Anonymous Coward]

Lucky bastard

Re:lull

[7Prime]

Lull of games, not in console purchases. There are some biggies around the corner, but for now Sonic is the only one with an official and believable release date. The fact that you still can't get a Wii is much more important, for sure, because once games start coming out (and they will), people will buy them. It looks like we're in for a long haul, though, before you Wiis sitting on the shelves "waiting" to be bought.

I've seriously never seen anything like this before.

Yes it is

[SuperKendall]

I am not saying the Wii is not in higher demand - from all appearances that is certainly true.

What I am saying is that sales figures for the PS3 (and the Wii) are constrained artificially by lack of consistent supply. I myself walked into Target the other day and saw two PS3's. They were not there the day after... the simple fact is that you can't draw any real conclusions from either sales figures compared to devices that are more consistently in stock and available for purchase at any time in any location (and currently the 360 is the only next gen console that fits that classification).

Just because appearance of the consoles in stores is more frequent now, does not mean potentially higher sales are not being masked by lack of supply. Again, this is true of both the Wii and PS3.

but lets hope that bluray wins

[Baki]

The reason: it offers significantly more storage capacity.

I am not interested in HD video, but I do hope that DVD-R/+R is replaced soon by a format with more capacity. From that point of view, HD-DVD just doesn't offer enough improvement.

The format that "wins" the video market will get cheaper media in the long run, and for all computer users it is thus to be hoped that the format with the most capacity wins.

Re:but lets hope that bluray wins

[ShadowsHawk]

If you're looking for capacity, you can buy an external USB HD. I really don't understand the 'more capacity FTW!!!!' mentality. I hope they both fail so we can move on to streaming video.

CSS

[SuperKendall]

You call raw PCM data "onerous DRM"

No, I call the CSS and region locking features onerous (at least for what I would like to do). But for most users those aspects did not and do not matter.

Again, it doesn't matter how many technical comparisons or issues you bring up - if you want to understand end-user acceptance of a format, you must go through end-user use cases and see if they are affected by DRM. The closest you get is that users potentially face hookup issues with HDCP connections (HDMI being the the most common connection format to make use of HDCP), but even then users can simply switch to component cables with no real loss in quality. So users will be as accepting of HD-DVD's and Blu-Ray as they are of DVD's today, and again the quality jump is noticed by the average user (and I mean low to average, not even above average), not just the discerning videophile.

Re:CSS

[Chris Burke]

No, I call the CSS and region locking features onerous (at least for what I would like to do). But for most users those aspects did not and do not matter.

I think you meant to say DVDs in your previous post where you said CDs? Then everything would make sense. Relatively few CDs have DRM, and of those that do a lot of them are well-known for causing problems with the basic stick in disc/play disc behavior that is all most people really want to work.

Anyway you have a point, though I also notice that the DRM of the next gen DVDs is more conspicuous than CSS. In particular the problems people have with HDMI/HDCP. Having to make sure everything in your output chain is compliant with the DRM standards is asking a lot more than was asked of DVD owners, who needed nothing but a licensed DVD player. Now you need to make sure that your TV, tuner, and amplifier all support the DRM. If we assume that anyone buying a new player is also buying these other pieces of equipment to upgrade their home to HD, then it will probably be moot. For anyone upgrading piecemeal, however, they may be surprised.

It's the same

[SuperKendall]

It's not any different. I was just noting the PS3 sales figures were affected so; I did not mean to imply through omission the Wii figures were any different. Both sales are clouded behind a mist of low supply, though it's pretty obvious that right now the Wii is in higher demand in terms of pure numbers of units.

Basically it's saying that right now, you cannot really gauge either PS3 or Wii sales against the 360 which does have a stable supply.

Even there harder to get

[SuperKendall]

At the moment, you can by the retail box at Gamestop.com and circuitcity.com, and bundles at several other stores.

At Gamestop it takes up to 72 hours to process an order, instead of the 24 other products take.

www.circuitcity.com says it is "out of stock online"

As noted, Amazon will not even sell you one directly yet, only sporadically when they get shipments and at those time PS3 sales spike.

The PS3 obviously has some lingering supply issues, despite wider availability than it used to have. It's not as simple to get as a 360.

Remember kids, it's all subjective

[jchenx]

Can someone please name ONE game that the Wii has that is worth playing? I considered getting the latest Zelda game and a Wii, but it was the only game worth getting it seemed. So, I just got the gamecube version.

This isn't really a reply to you, as it is to all the Wii fanboys that are about to flame you for being dumb, and citing their favorite Wii games as proof that the Wii is superior to all.

To be honest, I'm in the same boat you are. Looking at the line-up and my particular preference for games, I really don't see much besides Zelda for me. Yeah, I'm not exactly the "new audience" that Nintendo is looking for, since I am most certainly considered a "hardcore gamer" (although it's really RPGs that are my thing, not so much shooters). I know a lot of people are raving about Rayman, Elebits, and Wii Sports, expecting everyone to share the same opinion they are. Meh. Doesn't really excite me. (Then again, I imagine games like Gears of War, World of Warcraft, Metal Gear Solid, and Final Fantasy, don't really excite many of these Wii fanboys either) Let's remember everyone, to each his own.

That said, I still want a Wii, just to try out the experience. Since the console is cheap enough, why not?

Re:Remember kids, it's all subjective

[ookaze]

Your opinion looks strange to me.
I'm also not interested at all in shooters, but there are exceptions.
My thing is also mainly RPG. And I bought the Wii on launch day (first time ever), knowing that the best tactical RPG I've played since FFT on PS1, Fire Emblem GC (Souen no kiseki), was to have a sequel on the Wii.
So being a hardcore gamer, you should have known about this.
And I'm a casual gamer, so I didn't even buy the console just for it and one game either. I need 3 games I know I will buy before investing money on a console. In my case, it was Zelda : Twilight Princess, Fire Emblem : akatsuki no megami and Mario Party 8.
All the other games I'll buy are just bonus to me, as well as Wii Sports. To be honest, I wanted some PC Engine games too (PC Kid, Neutopia, Granzort).
As for Fire Emblem, it's out this month in Japan, so I can reasonnably expect it in Europe for this year. Of course, in case they destroy it with english dub, I'll have to mod my Wii to never again pay far more to have a degraded game (as I understand japanese, and Nintendo of Europe already destroyed most RPG I liked on the Gamecube, like Fire Emblem or Tales of Symphonia).
I mean, the native language here is not english, so there's no point in paying for an english dub, especially when the original is far better.

Re:Remember kids, it's all subjective

[jchenx]

My thing is also mainly RPG. And I bought the Wii on launch day (first time ever), knowing that the best tactical RPG I've played since FFT on PS1, Fire Emblem GC (Souen no kiseki), was to have a sequel on the Wii.

Remember kids, it's all subjective. ;) I would argue that Fire Emblem is NOT the "best tactical RPG" ever. I won't go into why, but that's just my opinion.

Anyway, I was referring to games on the Wii now ... not in the future. If that were the case, then you could argue that everyone who likes RPGs should get a PS3, since they're going to get all of the big and good ones, just like the PS2. I don't like such arguments usually, though, because why not wait until the games come out until you buy the system?

Re:Remember kids, it's all subjective

[ookaze]

"The best tactical RPG I've played" is my opinion obviously. I sure enough wouldn't say my tastes are those that everyone should have. I said it like that just in case you didn't know about this particular instance of Fire Emblem (the one on GC).

Now, of course, I don't buy the console for games in the future, that are not even confirmed yet. The fact is that Fire Emblem was part of my choices, and as all 3 games were from 1st party, and all 3 were confirmed for before end of 2007, adding to the fact that one was available at launch, the choice was straight-forward. Had none of them been available at launch, or 1 of them had been 3rd party and not confirmed, you can be sure I would not have bought the console at launch, but would have delayed my purchase.

Re: Elebits...

[trdrstv]

I would add Elebits to the list. I know it has received mixed reviews but I've really enjoyed it

Same. Also, was I the only one to get a 'Ghostbuster's vibe' from using the gravity gun?

GameCube

[tepples]

Another thought: how many good Wii games are there that don't rely on that gimmicky remote control?

Lots. They're called GameCube games.

Macrovision and region coding

[tepples]

Having to make sure everything in your output chain is compliant with the DRM standards is asking a lot more than was asked of DVD owners

When DVD came out, a lot of people had TVs with an RF input and no composite video input. The common solution used with game consoles had been to use a VCR as an RF modulator. But because of the Macrovision encoding on most DVDs, an output chain that used a VCR as an RF modulator would often cause the picture to fade in and out.

who needed nothing but a licensed DVD player.

A DVD owner had to buy not one but four licensed DVD players (region 1 NTSC for movies from North America, region 2 NTSC for movies from Japan, region 2 PAL for movies from Europe, and region 4 PAL for movies from Australia and New Zealand).

Re:Macrovision and region coding

[iainl]

Which assumes that they wanted to import discs from many regions, rather than buy them from the local shop. Just about anyone who wants to import knows how to find the handset hack for their player, because half the time the shop did it for them.

HD-DVD doesn't have region encoding at all, though, which is one reason why I'm going that route, rather than being tied to European Blu-Ray discs that are stupidly expensive.

Re:Macrovision and region coding

[Chris Burke]

But because of the Macrovision encoding on most DVDs, an output chain that used a VCR as an RF modulator would often cause the picture to fade in and out.

That's a good point, I do remember seeing that before. Fortunately TVs with composite inputs had been around and common for a long time before DVD macrovision hit the scene, if you bought your TV only a few years before your DVD player you were probably fine, but the situation is analagous to HDMI today. Today it's going to be very onerous for the consumer, and hence for the sellers, because we've got incompatabilities with what were very high end TVs only a few years ago.

A DVD owner had to buy not one but four licensed DVD players

You didn't have to, only if you wanted to import movies, and I personally don't know anyone who does so I'm going to group those people in with the ones who want more out of their player than put in disc -> watch disc. Maybe that's U.S. centric, since we don't get screwed on the price of films in our region. But if you wanted to import movies, it was easy to do a little research before hand and get a player that would play from any region.

Of course the real bitch is that the only practical thing that CSS ever did was enforce those stupid region encodings. It never stopped a single pirate.

Hack not around for all players

[SuperKendall]

Which assumes that they wanted to import discs from many regions, rather than buy them from the local shop. Just about anyone who wants to import knows how to find the handset hack for their player, because half the time the shop did it for them.

If you live in the US, many DVD players CANNOT be unlocked. Current drives that ship in all computers are limited to five region changes over the life of the drive - if you watch a US movie, then an EU one, that is one change.

As for the Macrovision thing, this was a very real problem for users in much the same way HDMI is a problem today - lots of people were used to hooking up video through DVD players, including consoles... which they proceeded to use as DVD drives, then the video looked funny. I personally saw two different consoles returned because "DVD video looked funny" even though probably nothing was wrong with the game system itself.