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solar is cheaper than coal now

Bzzt. Wrong. Not if you include the cost of inverters, backup storage, and other little things like that.

You are right about city farming being increasingly possible though. You can increasingly see industrial farming and livestock facilities around the world. One good example is fish farming:
http://www.theglobaleducationp...

If the trend continues pretty soon most consumed fish will be farmed rather than caught in the wild.

Then there's Vertical Farming or City Farming:
http://www.gelighting.com/Ligh...
http://www.lighting.philips.co...

All of the home halogen bulbs are encased in a glass globe that matches the older style bulb to eliminate that issue.

http://genet.gelighting.com/LightProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=CONSUMERSPECPAGE&PRODUCTCODE=10044

In fact I cant find ANY bare halogen bulb replacements anywhere that would suffer from that problem. Where are you finding them?

But instead they're forced to use the more environmentally harmful mercury-filled incandescants, or e-waste-with-dirty-manufacturing LED bulbs.

So your friends live in some strange part of the world that has banned halogen A19 replacement bulbs and is forcing them to use LED or regular light bulbs filled up with mercury?

A warm bulb is not what you want in every situation... warm is good in a relaxing environment like the living room or bedroom, but in the kitchen and bathroom I have 5000K (Daylight) LED bulbs.

Why are these bulbs, specifically designed for "Kitchen and Bath" applications, 3000 K?

They didn't need to work hard to find the optimal color balance for incandescents, because it's inherent in their design - they're black body radiators, same as candle flame or sun, so they've got that nicely distributed spectrum that feels more "natural" to our eyes.

Apparently they *DID* need to work hard to find the optimal balance for incandescents because GE charges extra for their "Reveal" line of incandescents http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/products/reveal_main.htm as other manufacturers do for their bulbs with light in the non-traditional, 5k-6.5k color spectrum.

Incorrect. GE and Sylvania both offer incandescent bulbs that meet the standard. I'm sure there are others, but that's enough to disprove your claims. Do some research before making your absurd claims.

That's simply ignorance of how flourescent's work.

Why do people on the internet insist on calling people ignorant at the drop of a hat? I sit a few cubes away from a Ph.D. in optical engineering who is writing articles on fluorescence.

I know full well how white fluorescent light works. They are designed to minimize the amount of UV leakage (and other spectrum of leakage, for that matter) so I find it unlikely that they would put out more UV than an incandescent bulb, which leaks all over the spectrum.

Anyway, all of this discussion is irrelevant, because it still doesn't say anything about the amount of UV that gets through the phosphor coating. The entire point of my post was citations, and you provided nothing helpful except yet more uninformed speculation.

So, finally, I did find a link on this, although it doesn't say how much.
Ultraviolet light radiation from fluorescent lights is not dangerous

More to the point, they have some mercury in them (although even that is going away). However the mercury in the bulbs that have it is still less than the additional mercury put into the environment by a coal fired power plant powering an incandescent bulb.

Per GEIt comes out to about 2/3rds of the mercury. Not great, but better.

Pug

From GE's FAQ on CFLs (Emphasis Added):

Do light bulbs (such as fluorescent and compact fluorescent bulbs) give off hazardous amounts of ultraviolet (UV) light?

Regular fluorescent light bulbs used in your home and office do not produce a hazardous amount of ultraviolet light (UV). Most light sources, including fluorescent bulbs, emit a small amount of UV, but the UV produced by fluorescent light bulbs is far less than the amount produced by natural daylight. ...

That not enough? Still worried about your artwork?

If you're looking for a low-UV bulb for an especially sensitive area, try our Saf-T-Gard bulbs. They block most ultraviolet light emissions, and they're also shatter-resistant.

So not only is CFL nowhere near like leaving all of your stuff outside all day, but if you're really concerned, you can by specialty bulbs to put over your artwork. Before making baseless comments, try Googling first.

I think it breaks down like this:
1. Bulbs can handle about 30240 (60 minutes * 24 hours * 7 days * 6 weeks / 2 minutes between toggles) power toggles.
2. It would take 5 years of normal usage to see 30240 toggles. (We are just accepting this as a statistic.)
3. Incandescent bulbs tend to be rated between 750 and 3000 hours based on http://genet.gelighting.com/LightProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=RESULTPAGE&CHANNEL=Consumer&FILTER=FT0010:General+Purpose_Standard&CATEGORY=Lamps_Incandescent_A-line_A19&CATEGORY=Lamps_Halogen_A-line_A19&BREADCRUMP=General+Purpose_Standard%23A19
4. There are 8760 hours (24 * 365) in a year, and 43800 hours in 5 years.
5. The bulb will burn out from its limited hour rating long before a normal user would damage it with toggles.

I think that makes sense. Does it to you?

Yes, but it's not as much as other applications such as thermometers or coal plants. It's a trade off, but I think the CFL is better, and they're working to improve it too.

Here is an EPA fact sheet hosted by GE, and I have seen it on other sites, but havent't been able to locate it on epa.gov http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/ask_us/ downloads/MercuryInCFLs.pdf Coal has mercury period. Some more than others, but I have never seen a reference that to make this comparison work, it has to be high-mercury coal. Is there any quality research to implicate more mercury in Chinese CFLs? Everything I have read says mercury content in all florescent lights have decreased dramatically over the past decades. I challenge your implication that this is a rumor. It is in fact verified, the only debate are the preconditions to the conclusion. You can argue about sources of electricity. But unless you are off grid, I would argue the mercury comparison holds. Our electricity grid is interconnected. The largest fraction of electricity comes from coal, especially peak demand electricity. Until we significantly reduce coal usage or upgrade a majority of plants to high-efficiency scrubbers, using CFLs almost certainly reduces mercury contamination in the US as a whole.

Hmm... Just pulled out one of mine. it's a GE Helical 20W unit, designed for 120VAC/60Hz/300mA operation. Model FLE 20HT32SW. It's good down to -15C, has a color temperature of 2700K and a CRI of 82*. They're $15/6 at walmart.

Of course, Japan tends to be far more expensive than the USA, though the difference in Hz and voltage shouldn't make a huge difference, unless they're just rebranded bulbs meant for 120VAC. The electronic ballasts are like switched power supplies; They multiply the frequency of the AC(into the 10's of kHz) in order to make transforming the voltage easier and more efficient in a small package, even then, the 10hz difference is nothing. Not being able to read japanese, I can't compare with the ones on the site you posted. I do remember reading somewhere that the helicals are the best, but have no source.

*The tubes I just installed might be a shade whiter, their CRI is over 90(shouldn't have thrown the tabs with the info away).

Yes they do!

"GE makes a dimming compact fluorescent light bulb (called the GE Longlife Plus Soft White Energy Saving Bulb) that is specially designed for use with dimming switches."

http://www.gelighting.com/na/business_lighting/faq s/cfl.htm#3

Thereby making almost any dimmer switch entirely useless, as well as forcing people to use CFLs in dimmer circuits that could damage them.

I think you mean using CFLs designed to work with dimmer switches. Like the ones made by GE and numerous others?

also has anyone ever seen a CFL that worked on a dimmer? i have them in a few rooms now and they only work with normal bulbs
I've seen CFLs advertised that work with dimmers and a quick check at http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/ask_us/ faq_compact.htm
says yes there are special ones that work fine with a dimmer.

To use a compact fluorescent bulb on a dimmer switch, you must buy a bulb that's specifically made to work with dimmers (check the package). GE makes a dimming compact fluorescent light bulb (called the GE Longlife Plus Soft White Energy Saving Bulb) that is specially designed for use with dimming switches. We don't recommend using regular compact fluorescent bulbs with dimming switches, since this can shorten bulb life. (Using a regular compact fluorescent bulb with a dimmer will also nullify the bulb's warranty.)

I'm not a woman, but the flicker is the worst thing about CFL bulbs. It's quite bothersome. I have 2 in my house, but I put them in places like the hallway. They're places I don't spend much time in, but due to the frequency of travel and lack of switches from every doorway in the hall, I tend to leave it on when I'm home at night.
I couldn't read comfortably with a CFL, as I'm sensitive to the flicker. Plus, the CFL tends to take a minute to reach full brightness, which is annoying for a room where you turn it off and on frequently.

But the secondary issue is that they're just not that bright, and they're just not pleasant.

What I've done in recent years is spent a little more money on halogen bulbs that screw into normal light sockets (not the small specialty halogen lights). I'm talking the Philips Halogena or the GE Edison bulbs. They're more efficient (more lumens/wattage) and longer lasting than standard light bulbs. They're worth it if CFLs don't suit your needs. And I've yet to have one burn out on me. They're not the cheapest, but sometimes you find multi-packs on sale for very good prices. I dunno if they save a significant amount of money in the end, but they're BRIGHT and they're hassle and flicker free.

You can buy dimmmer friendly CFLs today.

http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/ask_us/ faq_compact.htm#dimmer

That's four percent towards the Kyoto targets which are of course nowhere near zero.

You are aware of the recommendations for generally avoiding installing CFLs in cold or vibration-prone environments, right?

Linky and linky.

You are aware of the recommendations for generally avoiding installing CFLs in cold or vibration-prone environments, right?

Linky and linky.

They have mercury in them, which actually makes them suck much worse if they do break. That said, they save a ton of energy, and while they don't work well (read: at all) with dimmers, good ones are intensely bright. I have them everypace in my house that they fit (maybe 50% of possible locations).

Most CFLs are not designed to be used with dimmer switches. Special adaptors are available for larger bulbs and General Electric make Soft White dimmables which are available in the US but not the EU. LEDs might be the best bet if this issue affects you...

I concur. GE says that their "GE Longlife Plus Soft White Energy Saving" bulb is in fact compatible with dimmers, but the packaging I have found for this product is silent on the dimmer feature.

I'd rather not spend $5 per bulb on lights that may well be useless to me since every light in my home, except three in the bathroom, is on a dimmer.

According to the GE web site, their regular old 90W floodlight produces 1,100 lumens. Move up to a halogen 100W from Sylvania, and you're at 1,500 watts. From what I saw on the Enluxed web site, their 22w (nominal) LED floodlights produce 300 lumens.

I'm a big fan of LED lighting (having bought three LED flashlights last night as presents), but this is just absurd -- unless there is some kind of misprint or my reading comprehension is not up to par today.

Huzzah!

http://www.gelighting.com/na/contactus/prodconcern s.html

States that the average bulb lifetime is the median time to failure in their lab. Thus, the extremely long lasting bulbs and the extremely short lasting bulbs both have little effect on the "average lifetime" a bulb has and most people can expect to experience a bulb's "average lifetime" to be approximately as stated on the package. =-)

Think of competing identical products. Each one could continue to lower their prices, but the other companies would match those prices, thus killing any profits that might have been earned. Not to mention that once the price drops, the margins get thinner, making nobody (but the consumers) happy.

I don't see what you're getting at. If the margins are getting slimmer and slimmer, they can introduce the better project at a higher margin, and boost their profitability without undercutting their main product.

It's happened with light bulbs, and there are obvious reasons why it can't quite work with x86 chips or gasoline-powered cars. (No, wait, the "better product" is happening with gasoline powered cars. [I'd link to Honda, but their !$#ing website spits Mozilla an error message.] )

I'll readilly admit that pure capitalism is often set back by short-term profits. But that doesn't mean that there are oogles of goodies in every catagory we care about that are far better than what we've got just sitting on the shelf not doing anything.

Anyway, Compact Fluorescent lights have been known to interfere with IR devices and radios. Like others have said, I would guess it's probably just putting out a lot of noise.

The same goes for induction fluourescent lamp technology. The GE Genura is the only consumer-grade bulb available and it's expensive and GE probably loses money on every single bulb sold.

Now that I'm back at my office, I checked and actually I'm using GE Chroma 50 (AKA GE Sunshine) bulbs (CRI 91, 5000 Deg.). You can get more information at the GE FAQ. Also there's a nice comparison of different light sources here.