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Dear reader the GNOME armageddon has started,

First of all I want to clarify that this text was meant to be a source of information otherwise i wouldn't have spent so much time into writing it.

Belive me it took me a couple of days writing this text in a foreign language.

Even if you don't care at all for GNOME, you may find some interesting information within this text that you like to read. please try to understand my points even if it's hard sometimes, otherwise you wake up one day and feel the need to switch to a different operating system.

On the following lines i'm trying to give you a little insight of the GNOME community. the things that are going on in the back, the information that could be worth talking and thinking about.

Many of us like the GNOME desktop and some of us were following it since the beginning. GNOME is a promising project because it's mostly written in C, easy to use, configurable and therefore fits perfectly into the philosophy of *NIX, only to name some of its advantages.

Unfortunately these advantages changed with the recently new released version of GNOME. The core development team somehow got the idea of targeting GNOME to a complete different direction of users, the so called corporate desktop user.

In other words they're targeting people that aren't familiar or experienced with desktop environments. usually business oriented people who are willing to pay money for getting GNOME on their computers.

Having this new target in mind, the core development team mostly under contract by companies like RedHat, Ximian and Sun decided to simplify the desktop as much as even possible by removing all its flexibility in favor of an easy clean simple interface to not confuse their new possible customers. So far the idea of a clean easy to use desktop is honourable.

Some of the new ideas, features and implementations such as gconf, an evil Windows Registry-like system, new ordering of buttons and dialogs, the removal of 90%-95% of all visible preferences from the control center and applications, the new direction that GNOME leads and the attitude of the core development team made a lot of users really unhappy. These are only a couple of examples and the list can easily be expanded but for now this is enough. Now let me try to get deeper into these aspects.

You may imagine that users got really frustrated, because their beloved GNOME desktop matured into something they didn't want. During the time, the frustration of a not less amount of people increased. more, more and more emails arrived on the GNOME mailinglists where users tried to explain their concerns, frustrations and the leading target of GNOME.

But the core development team of GNOME don't give a damn about what their users are thinking or wanting and most of the time they come up with their standard purl. The reply they give is mostly the same -- users should either go and 'file a bug' at BugZilla or the user mails are being turned so far that at the end they sound like being trolls or the user feedback is simply not wanted. whatever happens the answers aren't really satisfying for the user. even constructive feedback isn't appreciated.

If you gonna think about this for a minute then things gonna harden that they are directing into the commercial area. The core development team actually don't care for the complaining home user -- it's more

Dear reader the GNOME armageddon has started,

First of all I want to clarify that this text was meant to be a source of information otherwise i wouldn't have spent so much time into writing it.

Belive me it took me a couple of days writing this text in a foreign language.

Even if you don't care at all for GNOME, you may find some interesting information within this text that you like to read. please try to understand my points even if it's hard sometimes, otherwise you wake up one day and feel the need to switch to a different operating system.

On the following lines i'm trying to give you a little insight of the GNOME community. the things that are going on in the back, the information that could be worth talking and thinking about.

Many of us like the GNOME desktop and some of us were following it since the beginning. GNOME is a promising project because it's mostly written in C, easy to use, configurable and therefore fits perfectly into the philosophy of *NIX, only to name some of its advantages.

Unfortunately these advantages changed with the recently new released version of GNOME. The core development team somehow got the idea of targeting GNOME to a complete different direction of users, the so called corporate desktop user.

In other words they're targeting people that aren't familiar or experienced with desktop environments. usually business oriented people who are willing to pay money for getting GNOME on their computers.

Having this new target in mind, the core development team mostly under contract by companies like RedHat, Ximian and Sun decided to simplify the desktop as much as even possible by removing all its flexibility in favor of an easy clean simple interface to not confuse their new possible customers. So far the idea of a clean easy to use desktop is honourable.

Some of the new ideas, features and implementations such as gconf, an evil Windows Registry-like system, new ordering of buttons and dialogs, the removal of 90%-95% of all visible preferences from the control center and applications, the new direction that GNOME leads and the attitude of the core development team made a lot of users really unhappy. These are only a couple of examples and the list can easily be expanded but for now this is enough. Now let me try to get deeper into these aspects.

You may imagine that users got really frustrated, because their beloved GNOME desktop matured into something they didn't want. During the time, the frustration of a not less amount of people increased. more, more and more emails arrived on the GNOME mailinglists where users tried to explain their concerns, frustrations and the leading target of GNOME.

But the core development team of GNOME don't give a damn about what their users are thinking or wanting and most of the time they come up with their standard purl. The reply they give is mostly the same -- users should either go and 'file a bug' at BugZilla or the user mails are being turned so far that at the end they sound like being trolls or the user feedback is simply not wanted. whatever happens the answers aren't really satisfying for the user. even constructive feedback isn't appreciated.

If you gonna think about this for a minute then things gonna harden that they are directing into the commercial area. The core development team actually don't care for the complaining home user -- it's more

Dear reader the GNOME armageddon has started,

First of all I want to clarify that this text was meant to be a source of information otherwise i wouldn't have spent so much time into writing it.

Belive me it took me a couple of days writing this text in a foreign language.

Even if you don't care at all for GNOME, you may find some interesting information within this text that you like to read. please try to understand my points even if it's hard sometimes, otherwise you wake up one day and feel the need to switch to a different operating system.

On the following lines i'm trying to give you a little insight of the GNOME community. the things that are going on in the back, the information that could be worth talking and thinking about.

Many of us like the GNOME desktop and some of us were following it since the beginning. GNOME is a promising project because it's mostly written in C, easy to use, configurable and therefore fits perfectly into the philosophy of *NIX, only to name some of its advantages.

Unfortunately these advantages changed with the recently new released version of GNOME. The core development team somehow got the idea of targeting GNOME to a complete different direction of users, the so called corporate desktop user.

In other words they're targeting people that aren't familiar or experienced with desktop environments. usually business oriented people who are willing to pay money for getting GNOME on their computers.

Having this new target in mind, the core development team mostly under contract by companies like RedHat, Ximian and Sun decided to simplify the desktop as much as even possible by removing all its flexibility in favor of an easy clean simple interface to not confuse their new possible customers. So far the idea of a clean easy to use desktop is honourable.

Some of the new ideas, features and implementations such as gconf, an evil Windows Registry-like system, new ordering of buttons and dialogs, the removal of 90%-95% of all visible preferences from the control center and applications, the new direction that GNOME leads and the attitude of the core development team made a lot of users really unhappy. These are only a couple of examples and the list can easily be expanded but for now this is enough. Now let me try to get deeper into these aspects.

You may imagine that users got really frustrated, because their beloved GNOME desktop matured into something they didn't want. During the time, the frustration of a not less amount of people increased. more, more and more emails arrived on the GNOME mailinglists where users tried to explain their concerns, frustrations and the leading target of GNOME.

But the core development team of GNOME don't give a damn about what their users are thinking or wanting and most of the time they come up with their standard purl. The reply they give is mostly the same -- users should either go and 'file a bug' at BugZilla or the user mails are being turned so far that at the end they sound like being trolls or the user feedback is simply not wanted. whatever happens the answers aren't really satisfying for the user. even constructive feedback isn't appreciated.

If you gonna think about this for a minute then things gonna harden that they are directing into the commercial area. The core development team actually don't care for the complaining home user -- it's more

Dear reader the GNOME armageddon has started,

First of all I want to clarify that this text was meant to be a source of information otherwise i wouldn't have spent so much time into writing it.

Belive me it took me a couple of days writing this text in a foreign language.

Even if you don't care at all for GNOME, you may find some interesting information within this text that you like to read. please try to understand my points even if it's hard sometimes, otherwise you wake up one day and feel the need to switch to a different operating system.

On the following lines i'm trying to give you a little insight of the GNOME community. the things that are going on in the back, the information that could be worth talking and thinking about.

Many of us like the GNOME desktop and some of us were following it since the beginning. GNOME is a promising project because it's mostly written in C, easy to use, configurable and therefore fits perfectly into the philosophy of *NIX, only to name some of its advantages.

Unfortunately these advantages changed with the recently new released version of GNOME. The core development team somehow got the idea of targeting GNOME to a complete different direction of users, the so called corporate desktop user.

In other words they're targeting people that aren't familiar or experienced with desktop environments. usually business oriented people who are willing to pay money for getting GNOME on their computers.

Having this new target in mind, the core development team mostly under contract by companies like RedHat, Ximian and Sun decided to simplify the desktop as much as even possible by removing all its flexibility in favor of an easy clean simple interface to not confuse their new possible customers. So far the idea of a clean easy to use desktop is honourable.

Some of the new ideas, features and implementations such as gconf, an evil Windows Registry-like system, new ordering of buttons and dialogs, the removal of 90%-95% of all visible preferences from the control center and applications, the new direction that GNOME leads and the attitude of the core development team made a lot of users really unhappy. These are only a couple of examples and the list can easily be expanded but for now this is enough. Now let me try to get deeper into these aspects.

You may imagine that users got really frustrated, because their beloved GNOME desktop matured into something they didn't want. During the time, the frustration of a not less amount of people increased. more, more and more emails arrived on the GNOME mailinglists where users tried to explain their concerns, frustrations and the leading target of GNOME.

But the core development team of GNOME don't give a damn about what their users are thinking or wanting and most of the time they come up with their standard purl. The reply they give is mostly the same -- users should either go and 'file a bug' at BugZilla or the user mails are being turned so far that at the end they sound like being trolls or the user feedback is simply not wanted. whatever happens the answers aren't really satisfying for the user. even constructive feedback isn't appreciated.

If you gonna think about this for a minute then things gonna harden that they are directing into the commercial area. The core development team actually don't care for the complaining home user -- it's more

Gnome did WHAT?

What does "stabilize" mean, anyway?

Are you kidding? That has to be one of the top complaints regarding alot of OSS development, including Gnome.

I do alot of testing and bug stomping for some Gnome packages, and I've frequently heard Gnome developers describe many Gnome and Linux libraries such as GTK as "moving targets". By the time you finish developing for version a.b.c, version a.e.f was released, and it breaks compatability with version a.b.c.

As a Gnome user, I've tried to compile everything from Source on a number of occasions. The dependancies drive me up the wall.

I use prepackaged products such as Gargnome, but it only solves some of the dependancy hell. If I want that new version of software X, I need to go and find and compile the newest version of several other packages.

"Now Linux is very stable (although not with Gnome, if there are any Gnome developers reading this please make it more stable"

GNOME is very stable for me. It (the core components like panel and Nautilus) almost never crash, and if one core component crashes it will just restart and everything else will continue like nothing happened.

If GNOME crashes very often then you should fill a bug report and telling the developers exactly what crashes, when, and how to reproduce it. Just saying "it's unstable" doesn't really help since we can't read your mind, and we can only fix a problem if we are able to reproduce it.

we still don't have a decent graphical user interface desktop solution for Linux.

Dude, you need to put down the glue. We have two kickass graphical interface desktop solutions.

Have you even tried running Linux?

Erik

This thread has some explanation of why opaque resizing sucks.

kes!

Go gou grust ge?
Kuck Koff Kuntil Kou kimplemented ka kEAL kesktop kenviornment

-1, kroll, klamekait, kfftopfic.

This sucks
Semi propeitery works better!

FP and flamebait!

Not tried Garnome then? It really does make compiling gnome from source really easy.

The point is not whether it works on Linux, the point is whether there is an open specification. And of those, there are zillions: OpenML, QuickTime, Java Media Framework, GNOME Media Framework, aRts. And these are just some of the most ambitious ones.

Now, after reviewing those links, you'll probably say: "but none of these works! none of them is finished!". And that's exactly my point.

I see a good "multimedia framework" to be the same thing as programming using the GNU tools.

Yes. And that's where you would be wrong. It a completely different thing. One works with text and symbolic representation. The other works with audio and video. There is a reason, you know, why all graphical programming languages to date have failed to gain widespread acceptance: it just doesn't work very well.

Instead of seeing Yet Another video player in gstreamer, you should really be seeing another Mozilla. It's big. It's complicated. It's hard work. People ask what the point of it is. It will be awhile before any good results come out of it. But when(if) it bears fruit, you may well find yourself asking how you did without it.

Uh. While Mozilla is not actually a failure, -- owing more to some incredibly fortuitous circumstances (*cough AOL money cough*) than actual competency on the part of the development team -- Mozilla did fail to satisfy *almost every single goal* that it set out to accomplish. So, yes, why not compare to Mozilla? A slow, bloated, overbearing software project, that's years late? You don't even have to take my word for it: just ask Apple. Hell, ask the Mozilla team themselves: what is Phoenix other than an attempt to salvage Mozilla?

Truly, it's great that Mozilla exists, but the only reason why it's anywhere near useful right now is because the team, after years of overengineering, finally started to worry about how the thing was actually going to be used by actual people. Since that point (about 2 years ago), Mozilla has started to make some great leaps towards usefulness.

At last, a voice of reason! I wish I had mod points right now.

Just speaking for myself, I like the nice and simple GTK frontend that's included in the Mplayer source tarballs, but I love the fact that it's entirely optional even more.

And to all you Gstreamer fans, ever try to satisfy all of Gnome's dependencies if you're not running Redhat/Debian/Mandrake/etc binary packages? Try compiling Gnome yourself and then we'll talk about how allegedly "great" Gstreamer is. I swear to god, "Gnome documentation" is the biggest oxymoron on the planet. Ten thousand pages all pointing to each other, none of which actually provides information on fixing problems.

Err, sorry. Didn't mean for this to turn into a rant, but oh well. Still mostly ontopic.

Anyone else read this as GLib?

I need a hobby.

T

Sun have engineers working on it, as do Ximian.
You can check out some of Ximian's work, here.

cheers,

"You are now scrolling."

The usefulness of smooth scrolling is that it allows you to scroll and read the text at the same time. I didn't realize that at first, either, but it really can make browsing more pleasant.

put your money where your keyboard is :)

glib is a wonderful thing

One feature I would like to see would be some form of "talkback" a-la Mozilla.

I think Ximian agrees with you, on Slide 15, they talk about integration with Bug Buddy.

But I'm guessing that won't extend to the non-Gnome versions...

Ack, now I'm getting all confused.

I thought Ximian had committed themselves to Gnome Office. Now I'm very happy to see their work on OpenOffice.

With all due respect to the Gnome Office people, I'd much rather that developers commit themselves to a more fully integrated, cross-platform, OSS office suite like OpenOffice.org then something that only runs a system with GTK & Linux.

Sure, Abiword is cross-platform, but Gnumeric isn't, and neither are many other components in the Gnome Office Suite.

Ack, now I'm getting all confused.

I thought Ximian had committed themselves to Gnome Office. Now I'm very happy to see their work on OpenOffice.

With all due respect to the Gnome Office people, I'd much rather that developers commit themselves to a more fully integrated, cross-platform, OSS office suite like OpenOffice.org then something that only runs a system with GTK & Linux.

Sure, Abiword is cross-platform, but Gnumeric isn't, and neither are many other components in the Gnome Office Suite.

But why? Why not stick Garnome onto RedHat 8 and keep all the fluffy stuff up-to-date with Red Carpet?

Works fine for me :-)

Under Gnome 2.0 there was no menu editor. (See the Release Notes. This was not Redhat's fault. The editor is back since Gnome 2.02+ and thus in Redhat 9.

Last I checked, you could get GNOME separately. GARNOME is bleeding edge, not GNOME 2.2. You should expect problems with the former, and the latter can be installed separately from GARNOME. You don't need RH9 to get GNOME 2.2 (and even if RH doesn't release RPMs for GNOME 2.2 on RH8, you can still grab the sources from the GNOME project directly).

Last I checked, you could get GNOME separately. GARNOME is bleeding edge, not GNOME 2.2. You should expect problems with the former, and the latter can be installed separately from GARNOME. You don't need RH9 to get GNOME 2.2 (and even if RH doesn't release RPMs for GNOME 2.2 on RH8, you can still grab the sources from the GNOME project directly).

Last I checked, you could get GNOME separately. GARNOME is bleeding edge, not GNOME 2.2. You should expect problems with the former, and the latter can be installed separately from GARNOME. You don't need RH9 to get GNOME 2.2 (and even if RH doesn't release RPMs for GNOME 2.2 on RH8, you can still grab the sources from the GNOME project directly).

Last I checked, you could get GNOME separately. GARNOME is bleeding edge, not GNOME 2.2. You should expect problems with the former, and the latter can be installed separately from GARNOME. You don't need RH9 to get GNOME 2.2 (and even if RH doesn't release RPMs for GNOME 2.2 on RH8, you can still grab the sources from the GNOME project directly).

Whatever happened to choice in this debate?

We can choose between various window managers, various linux flavors, and even office suites. Why don't we have a choice with our window system?

Why would it be any different for a fork of X for a choice between client/server and direct rendering, if backwards compatability was kept?
Would that not help the the people who only use Linux on their desktop, while allowing people with networks to use the tool, as it is now, that works for them?

see here.

Bowie, working at IBM? *Shudder*

So can we expect to see future IBM machines covered in randomly blinking mauve/green lights? Or have they not yet fully comprehended Bowie's innate design genius and management skills?

Bowie, working at IBM? *Shudder*

So can we expect to see future IBM machines covered in randomly blinking mauve/green lights? Or have they not yet fully comprehended Bowie's innate design genius and management skills?

I think that's been the main target of GNOME for a while now, Havoc and a few otherse have been advocating such an approach for quite some time.

And I don't think the person who wrote the e-mail you quote was trying to start one either. But it seems like you are.

You do realise that "luge" is Luis Villa, Ximian bugmaster and somebody who has contributed greatly to Gnome? He's also one of the most persistantly calm and rational people working on the project. This guy is no troll, Miguel wrote some stuff, and most of his arguments were challenged. As the submitter of the story neglected to do so, Luis made sure the other side was shown.

I did a reply as well, here. It wasn't in the thread because I joined that list specifically to reply to Miguel.

Miguel is mostly wrong. I wish that were more clear, though.

The best have been mentioned. A couple not mentioned include:

• GMT (Generic Mapping Tools) Which is a command line driven set of plotting tools that excell in plotting data on a map. There are some GUI's based upon this. The best I have seen for mapping.
• M Map (for Matlab) Also does mapping plots, but from Matlab.
• Guppi (gnome based)
• SciGraphica
• Peakster Simple real time plotting.
• RTP Also very simple real time plotter.
• Biggles Python based plotter.
• GRI Python based plotter.
• GRE Perl based plotter.

I don't know if some of these are MacOS compatible or not. They are Unix compatible though.

See this posting from Miguel de Icaza which Havoc Pennington hopes will not appear on Slashdot:

Miguel de Icaza: Reading today's Slashdot comments, you can see that our desktop is falling behind stability-wise and feature wise to KDE. [..] I probably mentioned this before, but when I went to Mexico in December to the facility where we launched gnome, they had all switched to KDE3.

See this posting from Miguel de Icaza which Havoc Pennington hopes will not appear on Slashdot:

Miguel de Icaza: Reading today's Slashdot comments, you can see that our desktop is falling behind stability-wise and feature wise to KDE. [..] I probably mentioned this before, but when I went to Mexico in December to the facility where we launched gnome, they had all switched to KDE3.

You use your computer for at least 3-4 YEARS. You learn.

I R-E-A-L-L-Y don't want to wait 3-4 years before being able to perform basic file-management tasks. In fact, I wouldn't,
I'd go use an environment that has paid attention
to usability studies, and doesn't design only for
it's current users.

Therefore the whole basis of these usability studies is that they're great for making gnome usable the first 15 minutes you sit down with it.. but that's it. Then you're out of the target market that benefits from them.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Making an interface
more intuitive benefits everybody. The less time
you have to spend wondering how to perform a task,
or wondering if it's even possible, the better. I've found that the users that complain the most about the GUI sucking are the ones that are perfectly capable of configuring it in a way that they like, or using something else.

You want to do R-E-A-L usability studies? get 100+ people who use gnome NOW. Of all different levels of skills, just like distributed in the user community. Study them for at least 3 months. Thouroughly. Then make your decisions.

As if you could possibly find 100+ GNOME users that use even remotely similar configurations or applications! Or that many of them wouldn't be utterly counterintuitive to anybody but that user. And if you think that a lot of money goes into usability tests now, imagine the cost of studying hundreds of people for months at a time!

Any environment that emerged from what you're suggesting would be so configurable that it would be impossible to document, impossible to learn, and utterly useless to anybody but those very same users (who are perfectly capable of configuring things the way they like it *now*.) Not to mention the flamewars over which of the hundred menu styles should be the default.

-Fascist GNOME2.2 User

gconf has support for locking features. Read
This.

GConf simplifies the administration of preferences for users in the GNOME desktop environment. GConf enables system administrators to do the following:

* Set mandatory values for particular preferences for all users. In this way, system administrators can control whether users can update particular preferences.

Here's you art, nerd!

First, my site to see if any new pictures have been posted http://pihlopase.mine.nu/albums
http://slashdot.org
http://art.gnome.org
http://themedepot.org
http://freshmeat.themes.net
http://debianplanet.org
http://gnome.org
http://google.com
Then I usually log into Blackboard at school to see if I have any new assignments or if any messages have been posted since I last checked. Then it's off to my numerous webmail accounts with netscape.com, cup of coffee, hop on the bus, go to class. Sneak a peak at Slashdot while the teacher is not looking. lather, rinse, repeat

First, my site to see if any new pictures have been posted http://pihlopase.mine.nu/albums
http://slashdot.org
http://art.gnome.org
http://themedepot.org
http://freshmeat.themes.net
http://debianplanet.org
http://gnome.org
http://google.com
Then I usually log into Blackboard at school to see if I have any new assignments or if any messages have been posted since I last checked. Then it's off to my numerous webmail accounts with netscape.com, cup of coffee, hop on the bus, go to class. Sneak a peak at Slashdot while the teacher is not looking. lather, rinse, repeat

Here is a discussion of why user levels really suck.

It's starting to slowly get better, and some options can still be set with the gconf editor, but some are just completely missing...

That is the most annoying thing about GNOME2 - they have this decent, supposedly self-documenting configuration system but they don't use it. All sorts of configuration items could be placed in there for the tweakers to play with[1], but in their quest to eliminate UI clutter the developers have thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

A good counterexample would be Mozilla/Phoenix - limited configurability on the surface, but you can do lots by playing with the configuration files. Even Windows have more under-the-hood configurability than GNOME2.

According to their website, the GNOME project is part of GNU. GNU was founded to make the dream of software freedom a reality. The Bitstream Vera fonts offered to us here and now (the "beta" fonts) are not Free Software. Nobody is licensed to redistribute the fonts, so they cannot possibly qualify as Free Software. Therefore, it makes no sense why GNOME would do anything with these fonts at all. The GNOME project should wait until Bitstream releases the fonts under a Free Software license.

I'm disappointed that an official part of GNU would get involved with these non-free fonts. If you are interested in using only Free Software, I urge you to not obtain copies of these fonts under their current license. It's times like these one can measure how interested they are in pursuing freedom versus pursuing convenience. The freedoms of Free Software got us the community we treasure. Don't throw that away.

Well there IS also a big problem with OpenSource. The problem of no one is responsible for problems, damage and other stuff.

I like to give you a good example of problems that I found with OpenSource and which are hard to track down because the developer doesn't feel to follow rules.

Example:

GNOME 2.2 there are a lot of inconsistences in the UI as you can read here. People tried to contact the developers, wrote patches but everything seems to be a waste of time since you can't convince the developer of the customer needs. The reply is usually 'go fix it yourself' or 'create a patch and sent it to bugzilla' or similar stuff. OpenSource will never be able to program the way the customer needs the software. OpenSource mostly program the way the developer likes it. If you look at commercial Companies such as Apple for example. Most of their applications look equal, feel equal and behave equal because they spent a lot of money into their design, their usability and their programmers. All this is missing on OpenSource. If we talk about little applications then no one bothers but as soon as it starts to get complex where many people need to work together as a team in a big project then things start to suck. OpenSource is definately a good idea but on the long run I don't see it to stay successful. Specially if you as developer work freely on your program and realize how other companies such as RedHat, Sun, SuSE and many others outsource your hard work and sell it for cash to other people.

I don't know if you people understand what I'm upto but I like to encourage you to think about this stuff for some minutes.

- Developers seriously like to get money for their work.
- OpenSource is a free ticket for companies to have your shit outsourced for cash.
- You work hard on your own project trying to reach some big stuff with other community members such as in a GNOME project but you always fail to convince them because everyone plays as an individual instead in a team.

Don't think and belive blindly that OpenSource is the best thing that happens for you. There are also big disadvantages in OpenSource.

why is it seen as a bad thing to ANYBODY?

Grudges. KDE is based on Qt, which wasn't Software Libre when the first version of KDE was released. (Which is why GNOME was started.)

Also, as an example, I came in on the scene only five years ago, after Trolltech made Qt GPL. Oddly enough, I'm still annoyed at theKompany, because I installed Kivio on my laptop so I could build circuit diagrams on my laptop. Come to find out, I have to buy the electronic schematics before I can use them in Kivio. Granted, they have the right to charge for extraneous material(which these extra stencils are), but I find, as a (P)oor (C)ollege (S)tudent, that free as in Beer is really, really advantageous. So I'm annoyed. I was really looking forward to built-in Python scripting, and, IMO, Dia needs work before I can use it with much comfort.

For the complete set of electronics symbols, at an average of $6 per stencil set, I'd probably be paying out $60 this week. And if I wanted any other users on my laptop to be able to use those stencils, it's another $60 per person.

And, as a final answer to your question, I gaurantee you I'll get at least one down-mod for badmouthing either GNOME or KDE office components. (Though I might not get modded at all as this is a rather old article now.)

why is it seen as a bad thing to ANYBODY?

Grudges. KDE is based on Qt, which wasn't Software Libre when the first version of KDE was released. (Which is why GNOME was started.)

Also, as an example, I came in on the scene only five years ago, after Trolltech made Qt GPL. Oddly enough, I'm still annoyed at theKompany, because I installed Kivio on my laptop so I could build circuit diagrams on my laptop. Come to find out, I have to buy the electronic schematics before I can use them in Kivio. Granted, they have the right to charge for extraneous material(which these extra stencils are), but I find, as a (P)oor (C)ollege (S)tudent, that free as in Beer is really, really advantageous. So I'm annoyed. I was really looking forward to built-in Python scripting, and, IMO, Dia needs work before I can use it with much comfort.

For the complete set of electronics symbols, at an average of $6 per stencil set, I'd probably be paying out $60 this week. And if I wanted any other users on my laptop to be able to use those stencils, it's another $60 per person.

And, as a final answer to your question, I gaurantee you I'll get at least one down-mod for badmouthing either GNOME or KDE office components. (Though I might not get modded at all as this is a rather old article now.)

why is it seen as a bad thing to ANYBODY?

Grudges. KDE is based on Qt, which wasn't Software Libre when the first version of KDE was released. (Which is why GNOME was started.)

Also, as an example, I came in on the scene only five years ago, after Trolltech made Qt GPL. Oddly enough, I'm still annoyed at theKompany, because I installed Kivio on my laptop so I could build circuit diagrams on my laptop. Come to find out, I have to buy the electronic schematics before I can use them in Kivio. Granted, they have the right to charge for extraneous material(which these extra stencils are), but I find, as a (P)oor (C)ollege (S)tudent, that free as in Beer is really, really advantageous. So I'm annoyed. I was really looking forward to built-in Python scripting, and, IMO, Dia needs work before I can use it with much comfort.

For the complete set of electronics symbols, at an average of $6 per stencil set, I'd probably be paying out $60 this week. And if I wanted any other users on my laptop to be able to use those stencils, it's another $60 per person.

And, as a final answer to your question, I gaurantee you I'll get at least one down-mod for badmouthing either GNOME or KDE office components. (Though I might not get modded at all as this is a rather old article now.)

But the idiots at gnome still can't write a simple file selector. Something thats been in windows since 95, and kde sinve 2.0. I hope the gnome project dies in its own feces because it SUCKS.