Domain: greenland-guide.gl
Stories and comments across the archive that link to greenland-guide.gl.
Comments · 16
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Re:I am not worried about it
Good bit warmer than now. We can tell because in Greenland receding glaciers are exposing Viking settlements, where beech tree stumps can be found in permafrost.
Can you provide a reference for "receding glaciers
... exposing Viking settlements"? All the historical documentation of Vikings referred only two Greenland settlements -- the Eastern ad Western settlements. You can look at Googlemaps images of the sites for the Western and Eastern Settlements:
Eastern settlement area, and Eastern settlement map
Western settlement area, and Western settlement map.
Just for reference, here is a zoom of the area of the Brattahlid and Gardar farms (two of the largest/richest farms), and a zoom of the Sandnes farm area from the Western settlement.Want more? How about on the ground photos of the ruins?
Gardar ruins
Bratthlid ruins
Hvalsey churchThey are a long way from receding glaciers, and quite green in summer. So again, at least some reference for these newly discovered Viking settlements that were underneath glaciers would be appreciated, because otherwise I'll just have to assume you are making shit up.
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Re:chicken little
*) So far "sometimes" is "always". If you want to claim that this time is different, there would need to be a substantial burden of proof on your part.
There's a selection bias here: if it were different - if we'd failed to get said technical developments in time - we would not be here now. Most cultures didn't, and disappeared. As for a particular example, look at the history of the norse settlers in Greenland; that's a culture that failed to adapt their technology to changing conditions and died out to the last man. For an example of man-made ecological disaster wiping out a civilization, look at Eastern Island.
Basically, every one of your ancestors managed to breed before dying, but that doesn't mean that all of us necessarily will. As for evidence that this time will be different, just look at the economic chaos that strikes every time oil prices hike. Now imagine that the price tends towards infinity; what do you think will happen?
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Re:Global warming and you.
There seems to be some viking farms being uncovered in Greenland. Yup, the glaciers are melting and in the process exposing abandoned farms. Hmm. Seems to me that if there were farms where there's currently glaciers, that would imply it being much warmer in the past.
Do you actually have a cite for this, because it would be significant news to me -- not the fact that there were Norse farms in Greenland, but that there are Norse farms that are only now being uncovered by retreating glaciers. You see, as far as I know (and I've had an ongoing interest in the Norse settlements in Greenland) all the settlements that were ever mentioned in historical records have been accounted for -- the Eastern and Western settlements. For some time no-one quite believed in the Eastern settlement, until they eventually found it, not quite where people were expecting. So, two settlements known from records, two settlements found. Are either of those settlements under ice? It seems Google maps and satellite photos can come to out aid. Consider these Googlemaps images of the sites for the Western and Eastern Settlements:
Eastern settlement area, and Eastern settlment map
Western settlement area, and Western settlement map.Just for reference, here is a zoom of the area of the Brattahlid and Gardar farms (two of the largest/richest farms), and a zoom of the Sandnes farm area from the Western settlement.
Want more? How abut on the ground photos of the ruins?
Gardar ruins
Bratthlid ruins
Hvalsey churchObviously not "under ice", but rather sitting in what are nice green pastures (the benefits of being situated in fjords). So can you tell me where the newly discovered settlements that are being revealed by retreating glaciers are to be found?
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Re:It won't work
That is propaganda and was completely ridiculous when the first 'scientist' thought it up. It's about as smart as the 'Greenland isn't really green' argument. We all know that, but there are settlements that are still under ice that weren't during the MWP.
Really? You wouldn't happend to have any reference at all for that would you? The settlements under ice that is
... there were Norse settlements on Greenland, and the historical records spoke of an Eastern and a Western settlement. For some time no-one quite believed in the Eastern settlement, until they eventually found it, not quite where people were expecting. So, two settlements known from records, two settlements found. Are either of those settlements under ice? It seems Google maps and satellite photos can come to out aid. Consider these Googlemaps images of the sites for the Western and Eastern Settlements:
Eastern settlement area, and Eastern settlment map
Western settlement area, and Western settlement map.
Just for reference, here is a zoom of the area of the Brattahlid and Gardar farms (two of the largest/richest farms), and a zoom of the Sandnes farm area from the Western settlement.Want more? How abut on the ground photos of the ruins?
Gardar ruins
Bratthlid ruins
Hvalsey churchObviously not "under ice", but rather sitting in what are nice green pastures (the benefits of being situated in fjords). So, the question remains -- what of these mysterious settlements that are still "under ice"? How do we know they're there? Certainly no historical records of any kind mention anything other than the Eastern and Western settlements, which as we saw are clearly far from "under ice". No one has found settlements under ice that I'm aware of. So please
... enlighten me, I want to know about these under ice settlements. -
Re:Northwest Passage
We don't have records about ships making it through then, but it was warmer then than it is now in the more northern and arctic regions and we know for a fact that the vikings had habitable settlements where it is all frozen ice now and you can't grow anything
Your statement about the Norse settlements in Greenland is patently false (unless by "now" you mean "February - March" as opposed to "this century"). The locations of the Norse settlements are known. Google maps and satellite photos can come to out aid. in determining how ice covered they are:
Consider these Googlemaps images of the sites for the Western and Eastern Settlements:
Eastern settlement area, and Eastern settlement map
Western settlement area, and Western settlement map.
Just for reference, here is a zoom of the area of the Brattahlid and Gardar farms (two of the largest/richest farms), and a zoom of the Sandnes farm area from the Western settlement.Want more? How abut on the ground photos of the ruins?
Gardar ruins
Bratthlid ruins
Hvalsey churchDoesn't look very "ice-covered" to me, and there seems to be quite a bit growing, what with those ruins sitting amidst tall green grass and wildflowers
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Re:A typo
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Re:AGW deniers are Fox News watching types
Just saying it looks like a vast ice sheet from where I'm sitting
That depends on where you look -- if you look where the Norse settlements were...
Eastern settlment area, and Eastern settlment map
Western settlment area, and Western settlement map. A zoom of the area of the Brattahlid and Gardar farms (two of the largest/richest farms), and a zoom of the Sandnes farm area from the Western settlment. Plus ground photos of the ruins:
Gardar ruins; Bratthlid ruins; Hvalsey church ... You'll find it's fairly green. -
Re:And that's bad how?
Is Greenland green yet or is it still covered in ice? If Vikings farmed there then, doesn't that mean the world was much much warmer than today?
With regard to the greenness of the areas of Greenland settled by the Norse, it seems Google maps and satellite photos can come to out aid. Consider these Googlemaps images of the sites for the Western and Eastern Settlements:
Eastern settlment area, and Eastern settlment map
Western settlment area, and Western settlement map.
Just for reference, here is a zoom of the area of the Brattahlid and Gardar farms (two of the largest/richest farms), and a zoom of the Sandnes farm area from the Western settlment.Want more? How abut on the ground photos of the ruins?
Gardar ruins
Bratthlid ruins
Hvalsey churchSo yes, Greenland was green with regard to where the Vikings settled, but then it has been the whole time, and still is today.
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Greenland again...As for the posts below which respond with "yes, warmer in the age of the dinosaurs", well, there's a reason why Greenland was named Greenland. It was green, merely a few centuries ago. With regard to the greenness of the areas of Greenland settled by the Norse, it seems Google maps and satellite photos can come to out aid. Consider these Googlemaps images of the sites for the Western and Eastern Settlements:
Eastern settlment area, and Eastern settlment map
Western settlment area, and Western settlement map.
Just for reference, here is a zoom of the area of the Brattahlid and Gardar farms (two of the largest/richest farms), and a zoom of the Sandnes farm area from the Western settlment.
Want more? How abut on the ground photos of the ruins?
Gardar ruins
Bratthlid ruins
Hvalsey church
So yes, Greenland was green with reagrd to where the Vikings settled, but then it has been the whole time, and still is today. -
Re:you'll get answersThe Vikings had farms there for nearly a century (more? less?) before it got too cold for the crops to survive. It was never "hospitable", but it was endurable. For farmers, who supplemented their farming with fishing. Later this colony got frozen out.
The Viking colony on Greenland survived for around 500 years. The causes of the failure of the Viking colony are diverse: a mixture of economic problems (the rise of the Hanseatic League for example), over-farming, and, yes, climate change. But the reason that climate change had an impact was as much to do with the conservative Viking culture as it was the difficulty of the conditions. The Inuit were able to live there long after the Viking colony died out, but the Vikings refused to adopt Inuit technologies that might have helped them to survive.
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Re:you'll get answers
If you think about it, this seems to imply that the Greenland had just been warmer than it currently is, and that it was starting to freeze up again when Eric discovered it. The ice has stopped migrating to the sea, but hadn't yet expanded to cover the shore again. (I could be wrong, perhaps there is currently a strip around the edge of Greenland that's suitable for raising rye or some such. It wouldn't need to be anything a modern farmer would find attractive.)
In fact there is currently an area of Greenland that is not under ice and is (relatively) hospitable. The site of the Viking colonies is, even today, still green with pasture. It's definitely marginal land, but habitable. If you're uncertain, here are some photos of Greenland today, and you can see photos of the ruins of the Norse settlement which all look pretty green to me. -
Re:Historical Data Readings
"Greenland wasn't given that name as some sort of horrible joke. It used to be GREEN."
The Southern (non-glacial) portion of Greenland still is green, at least during the Summer. Here's some pics showing outdoor shots featuring some green.
As for the name though, Wikipedia notes:
"Greenland was also called Gruntland ("Ground-land") on early maps. Whether Green is an erroneous transcription of Grunt ("Ground"), which refers to shallow bays, or vice versa, is not known."
Anyway, at the point when Greenland was named Greenland it still had a huge ass glacier sitting on it. The ice sheet is over 100,000 years old. -
Re:Sue Greenland!Perhaps if all the ice melts, Greenland will be able to justify it's name.
"According to the sagas it was actually Eric the Red who called this country Greenland. After he had lived for three years in this region he returned to Iceland, and wanted to convince his fellow countrymen of the fine opportunities for starting a new life here in this 'Green Land'."
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Re:Doom and Gloom
Erik the Red started a colony in Greenland back in the AD 900's. http://www.greenland-guide.gl/leif2000/history.ht
m According to archealogical records, at time the colony was warm enough to grow crops and support a decent little town. Now, all ice. The region went through an extremely warm spell for a hundred years or so then froze up again. I wonder what the glacier levels where then? I guess we will never know. -
Re:long term.
Columbus knew less about the New World than we do about Mars and the Moon. Hell, he didn't even think it was *there*, and if anyone had challenged him he wouldn't have been able to rule out the possibility that it was filled with cannibal giants or fire-breathing dragons or anything. He was lucky it turned out so hospitable, just look at what happened to the pilgrims a few decades later.
Agreed - he was lucky, but many explorers were not. How many explorers perished in the far North, trying in vain to establish colonies in lands that turned out to be uninhabitable? The case of Norse settlements in Greenland is a well example of how such overoptimistic colonization project could end. There is actually no reason to hope that the Moon/Mars colonization attempt will go the Columbus/Mayflower way - it could be also Eric the Red way. Personally, I'm afraid the latter seems more plausible. -
Re:There is a real example...
This is just a big conspiracy theory.
Concerning Greenland, the Scandinavians kept in contact with it until around 1500. See here.
So the idea that Greenland was erased from history is false, it was abandoned around the time of Columbus' discovery. Greenland itself was seen as just some big barren island in the north, nothing to get excited about; certainly nothing to hide...
The Portuguese probably knew of the Grand Banks off Newfoundland, but the fact that they kept it secret is due merely to wanting to be able to catch lots of fish without competition...
Also, why in the would the Church be worried about the existence of America? This part is just ridiculous. The Church is interested in saving souls, and a whole new continent would require that an attempt be made to preach the Gospel to them.
Concerning the compass rose at Sagres, you can see an image of it here. There was never any building there, just pillars sticking out of the ground.