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Don't we all enjoy video on our iPod now*?

Well. Ok. Maybe not. But just wait until tomorrow when the new shiny Intel Inside® videoPods present themselves in the hand of His Steveness.

*Don't buy or sell the so called "videoPod Shuffle" to sight-impaired people on eBay these are not endoresed by Apple.

If you read what really Apple wants
Selling more music

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20050127. html

Mini-Intel make more sense
They use arm cpu's for ipod

http://www.ipodlinux.org/ARMDev

Intel produces Xscale (arm) and that could be
a real talk not an rumor

Just use some tool like automatic screwdriver to wind the tape in front of a webcam, then write a program to find different brightness of the holes. I am sure this guy will do it for a reasonable reward. But in any case, the analyzes part can be delayed for any amount of time after the video is made and archived.

I realize that decoding Ogg Vorbis takes a bit more horsepower than mp3, but current iPods should be more than capable.

What makes you so sure? People who develop Linux for iPod tried to implement Ogg Vorbis on iPod and they claim it is not possible, at least not in real time (but probably this is what you mean). You can boot Linux kernel on iPod, but if you try to use it to play OGGs you get - what they nicely describe - "about 80% of real time". If you can do it in 100%, please join their effort.

I realize that decoding Ogg Vorbis takes a bit more horsepower than mp3, but current iPods should be more than capable.

What makes you so sure? People who develop Linux for iPod tried to implement Ogg Vorbis on iPod and they claim it is not possible, at least not in real time (but probably this is what you mean). You can boot Linux kernel on iPod, but if you try to use it to play OGGs you get - what they nicely describe - "about 80% of real time". If you can do it in 100%, please join their effort.

I won't be a fan of Ipods until the play my ogg files

http://www.ipodlinux.org/Main_Page

Check back on the iPodlinux project every few weeks, they are working on ogg playback. Once the 4th gen version is out of alpha, ogg can be implemented more easily, due to the more powerful processor.

iPod Linux

"How come no one has figured out how to google yet" :)

Not even the Linux geeks have gotten Ogg playback in realtime on an iPod working yet.

So which are you proposing?
(a) Apple upgrades the iPod hardware just for the wackos who insist on Ogg support? (Yeah, that's a sound business decision.)
(b) Apple spends valuable time trying to squeeze a Vorbis decoder onto the iPod hardware? (Wow, what a great use of resources for them.)
(c) Apple ships iTunes with a codec that doesn't work on any iPod? (Yeah, because nobody will call tech support wondering how to play their 10 gigs of Oggs on their iPod, huh?)

If you spend more than 3 seconds thinking about it, you'd realize that adding codec support to a software+hardware platform isn't as simple as flipping a lightswitch. ...they really ought to spend the 59 seconds necessary...

I know in the movies anybody with a keyboard, a blowjob, and 60 seconds can do anything with a computer, but out here in the real world programming isn't *quite* that easy.

Part of Apple's schtick is that iPod and iTunes are the same thing. You have music in iTunes, you plug in your iPod, you have your music on your iPod.

It's not trivial to get iPods to play Ogg Vorbis, if they can at all. The iPod-Linux guys are at 80% of realtime decoding. I don't know that it's impossible, but it's certainly not easy.

Apple isn't going to spend valuable engineer-hours trying to shoehorn an Ogg Vorbis decoder to run on iPods. And they're not going to increase the iPod hardware specs just to run Ogg. And they're not going to ship a new codec for iTunes that won't work on everybody's iPods.

So you may get Oggs to play, someday. But you won't get out-of-the-box support from Apple for a while. Maybe in a couple years, the iPod platform will be running faster chips (for non-Ogg reasons), and when it's trivial to add Ogg support, they may consider doing it.

In the meantime, no, I can't see why they would add Ogg support. It's not like they're having trouble selling iPods because of it.

Apple never intended for them to be used as audio recorders, and they have no control over the quality of third party dongles.

Your analogy is flawed or, rather, you are too passive. These are not "third party dongles", these are licensed and manufactured in partnership with Apple (that provides the firmware support and allows access to the iPod's innards). You don't get Apple's blessing, you don't get very far. Look at the incredibly slow progress the iPod Linux has made relative to, say, RockBox. This is because Apple actively works to lock out unauthorised development.

The iPod's hardware seems well capable of supporting high-fidelity recording, both analog and digital. The PortalPlayer PP5002B chipset (and derivatives on current models) used in all the big iPods since the early days is capable, according to PortalPlayer itself, of encoding MP3, WAV, AIFF, WMA, and ATRAC3 at up to 320Kbit/s.

A little over a year ago iPods switched to the Wolfson WM8731L ADC/DAC ($5 each in small lots!), which can sample at 44.1kHz, 48kHz or 96kHz. I haven't kept up with current iPod offerings because they are of little interest to me but I would assume Apple has not regressed on the ADC capabilities. It's hard these days to spend more than $3 on a signal chip and *not* get high-quality ADC. I note that most of the other players based on a similar PortalPlayer/Wolfson platform (eg Samsung, Philips, iRiver) offer high-fidelity recording.

So you see you are wrong. The iPod's lack of high-fidelity sound recording is not the fault of "third party dongles", it is not a limitation of iPod hardware, it is simply that Apple has chosen to intentionally limit the available quality of the recording function. As to why Apple would choose to cripple the iPod this way, many people probably have different opinions on that. personally, I feel that it's Apple's way of making nice with the RIAA.

Pretty much all MP3 players (including iPods) are compatible with Linux computers. That's not what the parent was asking about. He wanted to know about Linux-based players - where Linux actually runs on the MP3 player. iPod Linux would be an example.

2. Make sure you're getting all the goodies.
accesories for the ipod are avilable to make it do almost anything. In addition, you can put linux on your iPod and get even more features for free!

3. You'll want a display.
This is interesting because they say the reason is you have so many songs ... yet they suggest getting a flash based unit with not much memory... anyway, iPod's certainly have a display (sans the shuffle).

4. Let a professional make your next playlist.
Meaning, get one with a radio. The whole point of an mp3 player is so you dont have to listen to the crappy radio.

5. Pick the right size for you.
The iPod is bigger than all the ones they suggest, so it certainly exceeds their recomendation.

Note that this is about booting a Macintosh into Linux, not running Linux on the iPod. If you want to run Linux on your iPod, check out iPodLinux.org.

Gameboy Emulator for iPod. It's in progress anyway.

... it doesn't, yet.

Linux now most popular OS on microsoft campus. http://ipodlinux.org/Main_Page

Nilss made some OGG files of the dump: "rather a test" and one "recorded in the iPod Recording Studio".

Nilss made some OGG files of the dump: "rather a test" and one "recorded in the iPod Recording Studio".

"iPod Linux does not currently run properly on fourth generation, mini, U2 or photo iPods. Repeat: It DOES NOT run, despite what Slashdot (http://apple.slashdot.org) claims (http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/05/01/29/2017244. shtml?tid=222&tid=176). If you try and install the current iPL on a 4g iPod you'll certainly have problems, and you will most likely be eaten by a grue (http://perp.com/~grue/what.html). However, iPod Linux developers are actively developing for the newer range of iPods."

from http://ipodlinux.org/4g

Hey, there's a CmdrTaco's comment in TFA! See comment #14.

Well, you're open source iPod is here (and kind of here, eh?). The PS2 got a Linux kit, and many handheld devices (such as cell phones) use embedded Linux. There is a LOT of effort being put into using open source software on such devices, I could see if being put to cameras.

From Gizmodo, and a rebuttal. There is also a way to do it, albeit with a hack.

Engineer Dastardly Slaphapple took a break from his day job as a hardware and firmware designer at Bumbrubbley Audio Studebakery (maker of the iPod competitor Slompet player, among other things) to give us some more info on the OGG-on-iPod plausibility, including why the iPod mini (and future iPods) might have a better shot at getting OGG support than the older, whiter iPods. There's even information about why Apple may have chosen to implement their 'Lossless AAC' instead of the more widely adopted FLAC lossless format.

Dastardly's analysis after the jump:

Firstly, CPUs:

The current iPod gen3 has a PP5002D CPU, the same as the gen1 and gen2. The gen1/2 stored their code from flash, not SDRAM, meaning they had a more limited codesize, and their SDRAM took more power to operate.

The iPod mini has a PP5020 CPU

The Rio Karma (developed in Cambridge UK) uses a PP5003 CPU. It plays OGG (and FLAC and MP3 and WMA).

The old 5002:

The 5002 has a "broken" cache (1 wait state per access for program or data, meaning you effectively have half the effective clock rate when running code from external memory). This means that running code that doesn't fit in the internal 96kbyte SRAM of the player is very inefficient, both in terms of CPU cycles and power. MP3 and AAC just about squeeze into the internal memory (one at a time, obviously!), but anything that didn't would result in a big power hit - my guess is 30-40%+. This would be a bad user experience, considering the already short gen3 battery life.

The newer 5003:

The 5003 in the Karma has this particular silicon deficiency fixed. The Karma plays OGG, though it's still a resource hog - you get about 25% less battery life - about 11-12 hours compared to 15+ for MP3 due to the extra cycles and memory requirements when compared to the more svelte codecs. We didn't do a lot of optimisation, so it's running the Vorbis-supplied tremor decoder with only a few tweaks.

The even newer 5020:

The 5020 is based on the 5003, and so has the cache bug fixed. It's capable of playing OGG with 25% or less hit on power (depending how much optimisation is done). I would suspect the 5020 will find its way into the next iPod, as it's cheaper and integrates both the firewire MAC and the USB2 mac/phy blocks which are separate chips on the gen3.

So in summary:

gen3 - In theory possible, but unlikely. mini - Very possible. gen4 (or my guess at what a gen4 would have in it) - Very possible.

Dastardly Slaphapple is not speaking for his employer Bumbrubbley Audio Studebakery or Slompet Heavy Industries or anybody else. He's just sharing.

Of course, she will soon realize that my iPod is running Linux too.

Lucky you! aA solution!

Open firmware for a popular PMP!

Although it's a plausable goal, it doesn't seam to be in high demand. If even 20% of iPod users wanted different firmware, the project would take off quickly once the initial reverse-engineering was done, and by now we would have mplayer and an mp3/ogg/acc/wma player with color visualizations and sync with music libraries of WMP, winamp and xmms.

As it is, the project's contributors page only lists 3 developers. Seams an overwhelming majority of people are satisfied with Apple's firmware.

Besides, you can recompress oggs into high bit rate AACs. Sure, there will be a quality loss, but are your headphones that good?

Ok, I said Got an iPod? Try this (link ommitted). Much nicer.

For the RatBastards of the world, that is a conditional statement. It would say "if you ALREADY HAVE an iPod".

Now, as to the rest, I don't see how your unsubstantiated opinion is any better than mine. If you saw something totally amazing about that device, I certainly will not stop you from buying it.

Not that I really care, but here are some differences:

1. The Belkin device (going for between $50 and $100) is already available.
2. The iPod is easily replaceable, and independantly useful. Some people might even have more than one!
3. I can upload photos to a photo iPod and view them quite easily.
4. iPods can run Linux .

However, my photo rig has only my Canon, 5 1GB cards, two extra lenses, and my two tripods. I like being able to pop the cards directly into a photo printer, and I haven't yet reached the point of having 80GBs of perfect photos in a single shoot. Of course, I never shot 3 dozen rolls of film in a single shoot, either.

If you are in need of tons of storage, these have wireless to dump your pics down to a machine.

-WS

1) Must play Oggs
2) Must work with Linux
3) Must be durable and reliable
4) Must have at least 20GB

Get an iPod and install iPod Linux on it...

The OGG players still need optimization iirc, but since you're so set on open source I'll assume you'll be willing to actually contribute something by optimising it.
Otherwise, an iPod running Linux meets all those requirements.

Check out iPod Linux.

iPod Linux is here. Start thinking.

Yes. The easiest way at the moment is iPod Linux.

Perhaps this will be useful.
And now you can also use vi on your ipod ;-)
I wonder if I could get emacs to work...

Okay, so Linux isn't quite all there yet for the iPod, but progress is being made, more or less. You can put Linux on the thing and boot it and run apps and such anyway.

iPodLinux.org

What does the amount of money you spend have to do with running Linux on it?