Domain: iso.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to iso.org.
Comments · 191
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Re:It ain't over yet...
http://www.iso.org/iso/newsandmedia/pressrelease.
h tm?refid=Ref1070
When can the clowns have another go at it? -
BRM in Geneva, Switzerland
According to the ISO/IEC press release, the decisive "Ballot Resolution Meeting" (BRM) next Februrary will be in Geneva, Switzerland, where e.g. Ecma is headquartered. How can Ecma be prevented from having a similarly corrupting influence on the "Ballot Resolution Meeting" as they had in the Swiss standardization organization SNV (SIUG appealed)?
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Re:Still not official
The linked article above states the presumed "No" vote to be unofficial and according to unamed "sources". This could well go the other way and in fact be approved. Any celebration should wait until ISO offically releases the voting results.
Like here?
Sesostris III
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ISO press release
Press release:
http://www.iso.org/iso/pressrelease.htm?refid=Ref1 070
eknagy -
Re:Nevermind
ODF is already an ISO standard. My bad.
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Re:How about an email campaign to your ISO reps?
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How about an email campaign to your ISO reps?
How about everyone in
/. email the people from your country and get all your friends to warn them about all the technical problems in the proposed standard!
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/aboutiso/isomembers/Memb erCountryList.MemberCountryList/ -
Inflated fears.
could this mean the end of BitTorrent
What? Because if American ISP's unilaterally block bittorrent it would suddenly mean the end of the technology?
As a guide,Europe has more internet users than the entire population of America itself. Oh, and then there's the other billion or so internet users in those other countries.
America is certainly a fairly big country but it's far from being a lone influence of the world's technological development and trends. -
ISO Member bodies' OWN web sites non-standard
How can anyone take ISO seriously when hardly a single one of the member bodies' web sites validate with W3. Hell, the Greek Member web site even uses some shitty Flash "intro"!
What a disgrace.
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Biased IraqisSo are you saying is that the Iraqi Bureau of Standards will vote *for* this OOXML "standard" because of historical precedent?
;-D(just kidding, and besides, Iraq doesn't seem to currently be a member of JTC1/SC34)
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Re:Why would it be puzzling?
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Re:Why would it be puzzling?
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Re:Why would it be puzzling?
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the WWW for office documentsLet's extend this just a little farther: How about being able to choose your word processor or spreadsheet tool of choice and not having to be concerned about file formats.
That's why about two dozen companies, businesses, universities and agencies got together about five years ago to hammer out a universal office format. Since then, about five dozen are actively involved in the development and the initial review involved about 600. Last year, this universal office format was accepted and published by the International Organization for Standards as ISO/IEC 26300.
A universal document for hypertext documents (HTML) has proven highly beneficial and profitable, to say the least. It's not hard to imagine similar gains from having a universal document format for office formats.
As I said, the process took five years. M$ was invited to participate early on and could, if its management decided to, still start participating or even using the standard any time. Top engineers in the company have gone on record saying that there are no technical barriers to implementing ISO/IEC 26300 and that it would be rather straight forward to do so. You connect the dots.
The only serious contender against ISO/IEC 26300 has been China's Uniform Office Format. However, the two groups have been working actively to harmonize the specifications.
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Re:MPEG4/AVC
What part of MPEG4-10 is free? It costs money to even look at the standard to implement http://www.iso.org/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.Cat
a logueDetail?CSNUMBER=43058&ICS1=35&ICS2=40&ICS3=. Then it also costs money in order use http://www.mpegla.com/avc/AVC_TermsSummary.pdf. Not to mention that the mpegla doesn't guarantee that all the patents they license you for are sufficient to implement the standard. It is only open in that you don't have to have a secret handshake to view it. -
Re:ADVISE
Also
ISO = International Organization for Standardization
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/ISOOnline.frontpage
I imagine ISO is actually a acronym in a European (French, Scandinavian?) language. -
Re:FYI
From ISO web site:
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/aboutiso/introduction/in dex.html#three
Because "International Organization for Standardization" would have different abbreviations in different languages ("IOS" in English, "OIN" in French for Organisation internationale de normalisation), it was decided at the outset to use a word derived from the Greek isos, meaning "equal". Therefore, whatever the country, whatever the language, the short form of the organization's name is always ISO. -
FYI
The name of the organization is: ISO - International Organization for Standardization. I have no idea why it's "ISO" when clearly it should be "IOS".
PGA -
ISO 26300
OpenDocument is already a ISO standard, ISO 26300. The status is 60.60, which means "International Standard published".
"ISO/IEC 26300:2006 defines an XML schema for office applications and its semantics. The schema is suitable for office documents, including text documents, spreadsheets, charts and graphical documents like drawings or presentations, but is not restricted to these kinds of documents.
ISO/IEC 26300:2006 provides for high-level information suitable for editing documents. It defines suitable XML structures for office documents and is friendly to transformations using XSLT or similar XML-based tools."
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.Cata logueDetail?CSNUMBER=43485&scopelist=PROGRAMME -
Great news, but not necessarily a free-for-all
It is wonderful to hear that the PDF specification will be the subject of open standardization. Caution should be exercised when implementing products though. Almost 400 patents have been granted to Adobe. Adobe has another 50 patent applications in process. There may also be additional patents that have been assigned to Adobe or that Adobe has an exclusive license to practice. Adobe may also have intellectual property in foreign markets that are greater in scope than what Adobe has in the United States.
Caution should be exercised because ISO does not require that its standards be patent-free. Necessary patents merely must be available on a reasonable and non-discriminatory basis. Adobe (or anyone else really) may also seek patents on how PDFs are used, manipulated, etc.
This doesn't necessarily mean that Adobe is bad or that any Open Source Software projects will ever face any obstacles from Adobe. It simply means that some care should be taken to determine whether any of Adobe's patents cover features of the PDF standard or its uses, especially when developing software that mimics an existing proprietary product. If there is a question, then OSS developers should contact Adobe to try to get a license (perhaps for the consideration of a promise that the resulting product remain open source).
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Oasis OpenDocument
Why is this still being called Oasis OpenDocument? Have you already forgotten that it's an ISO standard?
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Don't forget the page counts...
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Re:how much better than OpenOffice?
use the now industry-standard Microsoft format,
What was the ISO-number of that standard again? Oh wait, it doesn't have one. Unlike some others.
Which format did you say was industry standard? -
Re:Hmmm
From the ISO website's FAQ:
1.4 What does "international standardization" mean? When the large majority of products or services in a particular business or industry sector conform to International Standards, a state of industry-wide standardization can be said to exist. This is achieved through consensus agreements between national delegations representing all the economic stakeholders concerned - suppliers, users and, often, governments. They agree on specifications and criteria to be applied consistently in the classification of materials, the manufacture of products and the provision of services. In this way, International Standards provide a reference framework, or a common technological language, between suppliers and their customers - which facilitates trade and the transfer of technology.
1.5 What benefits does international standardization bring to businesses? For businesses, the widespread adoption of International Standards means that suppliers can base the development of their products and services on reference documents which have broad market relevance. This, in turn, means that they are increasingly free to compete on many more markets around the world.
1.6 What benefits does international standardization bring to customers? For customers, the worldwide compatibility of technology which is achieved when products and services are based on International Standards brings them an increasingly wide choice of offers, and they also benefit from the effects of competition among suppliers.
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/faqs/faq-general.html -
Re:European Dates
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Re:.mobi.le
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Re:lies
Sun's Java specifications are available only under restrictive licenses
No, they are freely downloadable from java.sun.com (unlike, say, the ISO-9899 C standard which ISO charge 340 Swiss Francs for). The license states that any independent implementation cannot make proprietary extensions/subtractions and needs to pass a test. How is that a bad thing? Do you enjoy that the multitude of SQL implementations do most small things in their own different way?
Other specifications are provided by the JCP where Sun is one member of many - but with extra powers.
Anyway: Some of us are satisfied with Sun's free-as-in-beer implemenation, as are most other developers, which is reflected in the slow progress of the OSS implementations (since OSS developers generally make software for their own use).
IKVM, Kaffe, Classpath, and others have been laboriously reverse engineered from third party sources, and Sun has to this day refused to help in their creation.
"Kaffe is a clean room implementation of the Java virtual machine, plus the associated class libraries needed to provide a Java runtime environment." - clean room does not necessarily mean reverse engineered. Anyway, Kaffe now has merged in parts of GNU Classpath, so perhaps the NIH-istic multitude of implementations could merge into one so that an OSS project actually got somewhere? It's not like GCC depended on AT&T to make progress.
This Kaffe project slideshow is a very interesting read. -
OpenDocument is also smaller
For years now, OpenOffice.org users have had smaller documents both in OpenOffice.org 1.0 Format and OpenDocument format (ODF), both of which are based on XML and ZIP. Now, OpenDocument is an ISO standard. Also, many other applications already also support OpenDocument.
Since Microsoft was a member of OASIS when OpenDocument when the format was standardized, people have questioned why Microsoft created its own, different format instead of adopting also OpenDocument. In any case, now Microsoft sort of supports a third-party ODF plugin.
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Re:caveat emptor
Many of the factories in Taiwan & China
So? Do you actually know what ISO 9001 certification is ? ... have ISO 9001 certifications
"ISO 9001:2000 specifies requirements for a quality management system"
Pointing at the lowest-ranking guy on the factory floor and saying "it was his fault!" is not being ISO 9001-compliant.
Having a documented set of procedures which allow you to point at the guy on the factory floor and say "it was his fault - and we can prove it!" is.
(Oh yeah - you also need a documented method for addressing quality shortfalls. Add "And now he's fired!" to that last paragraph...)
In other words, it has nothing to do with actual quality... -
Re:what about the lucky sevens?It needs to be standardized in order to avoid confusion.
It has been.
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The case against ISO 9000
You need to get hold of a copy of John Seddon's book "In Pursuit of Quality: Case Against ISO 9000". If you're stuck with a mandate to comply then at least it should help you avoid the most common pitfalls. There's an article at http://www.iso.org/iso/en/iso9000-14000/addresour
c es/articles/pdf/viewpoint_4-98.pdf where he summarises his position. -
Re:Use Free Software instead
The price for ISO 9660:1998 (in PDF or dead tree) is currently 120 CHF, or about 97 USD. Without reading that spec, all you can do is run software written by people who have read it. You can't even correctly maintain that software; you can't be anything more than an end user limited to what someone else decided you ought to be allowed to do.
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Re:Sabatoge?
As far as I know ISO only has standard organisations as members, which represent a country (ANSI for the United States). As I remember Microsoft took place in a workgroup, which only makes minor edits (IANASG). See http://www.iso.org/iso/en/aboutiso/isomembers/Mem
b erCountryList.MemberCountryList -
Re:author mistaken?
HTML is arguably not open. Since HTML is an SGML application, you need to know SGML's parsing rules in order to parse it properly. SGML is the ISO 8879:1986 standard that costs ~140 EUR / 170 USD / 100 GBP to read.
You can decide not to pay for the standard and wing it instead, which is what browser developers have typically done, and which is why practically none of them can parse HTML correctly.
In my opinion, if you have to pay to read a standard in order to process documents correctly, then you can't really class those documents as using an open standard.
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Re:Is it me?
Of course not! India has always been using the dd/mm/yyyy format, and 4/1 means 4th of January.
It is true that in China, 4/1 means 1th of April, but that's because they use the yyyy-mm-dd format, which is a logical order (most significant–least significant), unlike your American mm-dd-yyyy order which makes no sense.
The ISO standard (ISO 8601) is to use yyyy-mm-dd (as you see in dates on Slashdot and all websites that actually realise it's the World Wide Web).
To prevent ambiguity, it is best to spell out the name of the month in full, when you are not specifying the year, and there is no way of telling whether month/date or date/month is being used. -
Re:Maybe an "organic"-style branding is needed.
This is what the International Standards Organisation is for.
http://www.iso.org/ -
Re:SQL is only 1/2 the story
No standard way to get all tables in a database.
Yes there is. As defined in ISO/IEC 9075-11:2003 you can use: SELECT * FROM INFORMATION_SCHEMA.TABLES
This currently works in at least MS SQL Server, MySQL, PostgreSQL and Mimer SQL. This is not an omission in the SQL standard, only in certain implementations. Whine at the vendor of those implementations if you want that to change. -
Re:Standard stored procedure/trigger language
There is a common language for stored procedures / triggers. SQL Persistent Stored Modules (SQL/PSM) is defined in ISO/IEC 9075-4:2003 and is currently implemented by at least IBM DB2, MySQL 5 and Mimer SQL. An implementation effort for PostgreSQL / EnterpriseDB is under way.
If your database does not support SQL/PSM and is not working on implementing it you have only your choice of database to blame for that. -
What I'm hoping for...
...is the day when ISO 8879 can be downloaded for free. Granted, OpenSP kicks ass at much of it, but I'd still like to read the standard without paying ~$224, and if Goldfarb is the one in the way of that, he's gonna get smacked soon.
(Or did I miss a PDF somewhere this side of eMule? I've seen none there of 8879 yet...)
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Re:C# is an open standard
Or if you want someone (arguably) more trusted: ISO (almost at the end of the page).
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Google is probably adhering to ISO 3166
Google is probably adhering to ISO 3166 as found here:
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/prods-services/iso3166ma /10faq/frequently-asked-questions.html#QS03
03: Why is Taiwan named Taiwan Province of China in ISO 3166-1?
A: The names in ISO 3166-1 - and thus on our Webpage - are taken from United Nations sources. These sources are authoritative inputs to the international country code standard. They are:
* The United Nations Bulletin Country Names and the
* Country and Region Codes for Statistical Use of the United Nations Statistics Division
Since Taiwan is not a UN member it does not figure in the UN bulletin on country names. The printed edition of the publication Country and region codes for statistical use gives the name we use in ISO 3166-1. By adhering to UN sources the ISO 3166/MA stays politically neutral. -
Re:Checksums are always going to be vulnerable
Yes, for example Whirlpool (http://www.iso.org/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.Ca
t alogueDetail?CSNUMBER=39876&scopelist=) -
Yes it isFor the millionth time, AAC is an open standard.
I wonder who those guys called ISO are, that they endorse the MPEG-4 audio spec that includes AAC? Maybe a stardards body?
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Re:Will Firefox make it to the systems as default?
so what IS the correct way to render that? It's not valid HTML
Actually, it is. My whole point revolves around that fact. You only think that it's invalid because no browser you've ever used understands it.
is there a documented standard saying what the correct behavior is? Where exactly?
The ISO 8879:1986 standard, also known as SGML. HTML is an SGML application, and because it uses SHORTTAG NET, this particular shortcut is available to HTML documents. It also happens to be the reason why, even though the W3C really don't want it to be the case, no form of XHTML is fully backwards compatible with HTML.
Unfortunately, I can't link to the standard to prove it, because you have to pay to obtain a copy of it. In this case, it costs 224 Swiss Francs, which is about 180 US dollars. That's another dirty little secret the W3C doesn't like to publicise - their "open" HTML "standard" (fact three: it's not a standard, just a specification - ISO have published ISO-HTML, but there are significant differences between that and the W3C's specifications) requires you to pay to read a standard if you want to implement it properly.
I think my guess would be
Last time I checked, browser results varied. A conformant HTML user-agent would understand "<b/test/." to mean exactly the same thing as "<b>test</b>.".
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When Where Who What
Maybe you want to know
When from Where did What by Whom
When = ISO 8601 Timestamp (from)
Where = IP Adress / Name of computer...
Who = which Login /registered user did
What requested file foo/bar?a=213b=dfg -
Uh, ISO 9660 not ISO 9669
I thought I was missing something new here, but TFA is wrong
... ISO 9669 is a standard for the interface for tank containers. ISO 9660 is the volume and file system standard. -
Uh, ISO 9660 not ISO 9669
I thought I was missing something new here, but TFA is wrong
... ISO 9669 is a standard for the interface for tank containers. ISO 9660 is the volume and file system standard. -
ISO 8601
first day then month and then year (like numbers smallest first then bigger)..
You've thrown the fish in reverse, and now it's bass-ackwards. The International Organization for Standardization maintains that the year comes first, then the month, then the day.
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Re:it's not reverse engineering
It isn't just an ECMA standard, it is an ISO standard as well
... It would do more harm than good for MS to be agressive towards any OSS implimentation, beyond this, with MS being aware of said development for several years, hasn't enforced it's IP/Patents, and would have that much weaker of a case.
Beyond this, it is *MORE* likely that the MS implimentation tramples on other patents, and there is prior art for pretty much anything in .Net -
Re:it's not reverse engineering
The catch is that C# and CLR are not open standards - they are just ECMA standards.
ISO/IEC 23270:2003 - C# Language Specification
ISO/IEC 23271:2003 - Common Language Infrastructure
ISO/IEC TR 23272:2003 - Common Language Infrastructure -- Profiles and Libraries
Stage date (of all 3): 2003-03-28
This means you had 2 years to realise that these are also ISO standards.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/ecma/ says:
"The following organizations have participated in the work of ECMA TC39/TG2 and TC39/TG3 and their contributions are gratefully acknowledged:
(...)Novell/Ximian(...)"
So Novell does also have rights to C#/CLR/CLI.